silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
ALL mmos have guild issues, the problem with tying boon access into a guild cuts both ways.
It makes people who wouldn't normally contribute to a guild and participate , do so (I see this as a good thing) It also makes it that the guilds have undue power over a player. (maybe not the best thing)
Overall I think the compromise of, if you leave a guild at any point, you retain the boons already opened, until such a time you enter a new guild.
Through first 5 levels you progress on your own by giving donations. Guild or Cryptic can say what that level is. In these 5 levels you can be kicked out by (let's say) lvl 8,9 and 10 members.
After that you can only be kicked by a majority of other members above level 5 (reason must be stated). Guild has (let's say) 5 days to make a vote. Only accounts vote, not alts. If a member with a right for vote is not online during these 5 days his vote doesn't count at all (for example, if you have 10 accounts over lvl 5 and 3 of them are not online during these 5 voting days then the majority s 4/7. Those 3 don't count.). The vote can only be started by higher lvl members and if it doesn't succeed in the first try you have a cool down period of (let's say) 1 week after which you can start the same voting procedure.
Every big decision inside the guild can also be discussed like this, promote a player to a higher rank, demote higher rank players, building constructions, etc. Guild leaders will have a smaller power with this kind of system and the guild will work more like a whole entity.
Feel free to upgrade on this if you have a better idea or trash it.
I just wanted to thank you all for your support, and I just wanted to mention that I'm receiving quite a few guild offers, and that I appreciate them all!
I did realize that there is one more thing I forgot to mention with the original anecdote I had in my post, I will edit it in there after I post this.
About 3 weeks ago, our guild leader, who had been the only active rank 7 for months, decided to invite a new member and promote them instantly to rank 7. Nobody had ever talked to this person before. Nobody knew who she was, wasn't a very experienced or veteran player either. This is why I suspect the old leader has sold the guild, and that he is possibly following orders from this new person. I still think there is also a chance of his account being sold as well, and the new owner inviting and promoting one of their friends to rank 7, as that also makes sense.
Just realized I left that out, and wanted to make sure I am providing all relevant information!
Overall I think the compromise of, if you leave a guild at any point, you retain the boons already opened, until such a time you enter a new guild.
It seems probably the best solution.
yep. this seems the best way. +1
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Thanks for all the fish.
Never ever will I agree to a guild rank based on required donations. I spend my currencies and time the way I see fit. Nobody in this game is going to force me otherwise. SH isn't all there is to a guild. There are much more important factors to being a good guild member.
I don't see the problem. My system leaves everything the same if you are not donating. It's like now. You can be kicked at any time you can donate or not, chat or not. You decide. It's only for those who donated that have at least some insurance that the donations they put will benefit them. I mean the whole name "donations" is so wrong because you do "donate" but only so you and other members can benefit from structures. It's more like an investment actually.
Really? and what about the people that are not lvl70, have not played for over a year and do not have the campaign currency to donate? I'm not even counting the people who do not have 8 hours every day to play. Sorry. No. Guild donations are not the way to measure someone's worth in a guild.
I completely agree with this, there is more to being a good member than donating to the coffer. Sure, that's a part of it, but more important is personality, and willingness to help and cooperate to others.
Really? and what about the people that are not lvl70, have not played for over a year and do not have the campaign currency to donate? I'm not even counting the people who do not have 8 hours every day to play. Sorry. No. Guild donations are not the way to measure someone's worth in a guild.
Can you please quote me where I said that you have to be active and keep donating to actually be inside a guild? All I said is IF you DONATED you will be high enough that only THE GUILD MEMBERS can kick you out (not one person). Let's change it a bit and look on donating as a '+' in your current rank. Your guild has 5 ranks with their names. You promote them as you see fit, but when a member gives (just an example) 5M AD he gets a '+' and can only be kicked with the help of other guild members of certain rank.
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inyawayupdeepMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 206Arc User
I'm sorry to hear about this, I'm a co guild leader now of a smaller guild that was salvaged from the remnants of a full sized guild that was hacked and destroyed.
We did everything we could to get GMs to help us regain control of it but sadly we didn't get any help. We created a new guild so we could have a place to try to regroup when we could find each other.
The hacker kept control of our guild for several days before he booted everyone, but no one did anything to help us, they didn't even try to get our guild vault back to the same level that it was at and so I wouldn't expect a lot of help from the game if I were you.
I would suggest that there isn't a real need in the game for the shared guild vault, it only makes the guilds targets for hackers. The items that are normally stored in a shared vault are of little real value and it doesn't make sense to spend 700k AD for a vault room that holds 20k AD worth of potions and scrolls.
I think it would be in the best interest of the game if they took away the incentive to hack guilds by giving every person in the game a larger personal vault and did away with the guild vault.
It would probably be a good idea to make guilds spread leadership power to more than one person, let's say at least three rank 7s for any guild with ten or more active members. Make it impossible to boot or demote those three without both of the others agreeing to it, that way one rouge person couldn't destroy the guild, replace lost leaders automatically with most senior guild members that are active or vice versa.
I will also restate what I've said before in other posts that it's a mistake to use items needed for character development in the game (AD, Armor, Gems and Glory) for guild progression.
As to your buddy spending hundreds, sorry, I'm sure he's a great guy but that ones on him, I'm sure he weighed the risks when he spent the money, if not he should have, at least his misfortune may be an example to others of what to watch out for.
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beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Very unfortunate.
I'm in the same sort of position as @hustin1 of having been forced into leadership by attrition, with a small remaining group of casual players and an even smaller group of core players doggedly determined to make the SH work, even at a glacial pace. And for all that leaving for a larger/more active guild would be personally beneficial, I'm proud of what we have achieved, and moved by the support of those core players.
I do worry about what would happen if my account were compromised. I go back and forth with myself about the idea of opening recruitment again, which is something I let lapse as I lost my co-leaders. I miss having enough people online to actually run stuff as a guild. I'd kind of like to try the Dragonflight. The slow pace of SH advancement is frustrating even though I'm resigned to it. And so forth. But I can't just do open recruitment and vetted recruitment is somewhat demanding for just one person to handle.
The Aussie guild Fair Dinkum recently lost absolutely everything due to a compromised account as well. There was a thread about it in the recruitment forum, I think.
Unfortunate for you, but no one to blame but yourselves.
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Because Vanilla's setting here considers it a bad word, so the profanity filter removes it. Which is frankly completely idiotic on a forum about a computer game, but we usually understand from the context what's been removed.
kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
This is a large part of the reason why I am really hesitant about promoting people to Rank 7 in Team Fencebane. The people who get promoted are in a position of absolute trust, and I have demoted people if they were acting shady. The only people who ever get immediately ranked up to Rank 7 are Community Managers, and they have no reason to try to take over or steal anything. People have to completely, 100% earn my trust. We've had too many issues in the past.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
People who treat their digital name as if its their real life one are rare and that in regards should be the greatest commodity in a guild member you should find.
Due to the nature of the internet, I'm who I say I am, and it's real easy to "prove" I'm me in light of just how little Cryptic asks for when you sign up, there is next to nothing for them to cross check.
If one of those things were changed, sure. But for multiple changes that coincide? The new owner of the account will be connecting from some where else. I haven't read NW's service agreement, but some hardware information could be collected as well. Add to that corroborating information from different people, Cryptic could certainly make that determination if they wanted to.
People who treat their digital name as if its their real life one are rare and that in regards should be the greatest commodity in a guild member you should find.
Yes, again, this is so very true. I want someone who will act like themselves, and apply the same moral standards to their actions in game as they would in real life.
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Get everyone on teamspeak..
You can here voices change =P
or raidcall or whatever you want to use.. there are a # of them.
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andorrabellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 437Arc User
edited October 2015
I was sorry to hear about this. I had a similar experience in Everquest where a legacy guild owner who had not been online in years got on, wrested control back from current leadership (the original creator could always get ownership back if they so wished), cleared out the bank and disbanded all the active players. I remember literally running alts into the guild to try to carry the "furniture" out on our backs before we were all kicked.
We started over with a new guild name and lost little outside of that, but with strongholds it would be a pretty devastating blow. I think the idea above from Silver about retaining your current boons until you join a new guild is a pretty good one.
my advice, make a small and unuse alt-account back up guild for storage, and set that character to Invisible/friends only, and only log when needed for check ups or transfer items if the main guild are having raffle prize drawings or guild event. make sure you check your surroundings for bots who may taking names when they were searching for big fish.
avoid questionable game websites or 3rd party selling sites which may have keyloggers, sometimes they use email to phishings.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
We have 2 Legit guilds, or you could join my tiny guild.
How about making it like this - if kicked then you get back everything you put in, if you leave on your own, stuff stays at Stronghold - that would save stuff for ppl who got kicked and allow you to donate stuff to guild if you want to leave(or you could ask leader to kick you, and a decent guild leader would do it)
not a full solution but would help, for inactive members - ppl who have donated a lot could be kept in guild longer, and kick them when u can afford it(they are usually the old members that have been in guild for ages and are kept for some time for a chance they come back), if you accidentally leave, or leave with an alt, you leave your stuff at guild, HAMSTER guild leader kicks you - you keep your stuff, and even if a guild needs to kick somebody who turned out not to be trustworthy - they usually show that quite soon and without much donations
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,417Arc User
Retaining the current boon has an issue I can see. One can keep on jumping among guilds to have all the boons that could not be obtained within one guild.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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kreatyveMember, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 10,545Community Moderator
How about making it like this - if kicked then you get back everything you put in, if you leave on your own, stuff stays at Stronghold - that would save stuff for ppl who got kicked and allow you to donate stuff to guild if you want to leave(or you could ask leader to kick you, and a decent guild leader would do it)
not a full solution but would help, for inactive members - ppl who have donated a lot could be kept in guild longer, and kick them when u can afford it(they are usually the old members that have been in guild for ages and are kept for some time for a chance they come back), if you accidentally leave, or leave with an alt, you leave your stuff at guild, HAMSTER guild leader kicks you - you keep your stuff, and even if a guild needs to kick somebody who turned out not to be trustworthy - they usually show that quite soon and without much donations
I don't really like this solution either. Someone can be a total jerk and start trash talking but if they donated a whole lot of stuff to the mimic, the guild leaders will not want to lose all those donations and would be between a rock and a hard place. People would use it as an excuse to be a troll. I donated all that stuff, now you can't kick me or you'll be set back all that.
Plus, what would happen if you use the stuff in the mimic to build a building, and then the person leaves the guild? They can't get that stuff back, it would be exploited majorly.
I agree that some sort of checks and balances would be good, but it's probably best to just be in a guild with honest and trustworthy people.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
0
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
Retaining the current boon has an issue I can see. One can keep on jumping among guilds to have all the boons that could not be obtained within one guild.
It was specified that old boons would only remain in effect as long as a player was guildless. As soon as a new guild is joined, you'd only have access to their boons.
How about making it like this - if kicked then you get back everything you put in, if you leave on your own, stuff stays at Stronghold - that would save stuff for ppl who got kicked and allow you to donate stuff to guild if you want to leave(or you could ask leader to kick you, and a decent guild leader would do it)
not a full solution but would help, for inactive members - ppl who have donated a lot could be kept in guild longer, and kick them when u can afford it(they are usually the old members that have been in guild for ages and are kept for some time for a chance they come back), if you accidentally leave, or leave with an alt, you leave your stuff at guild, HAMSTER guild leader kicks you - you keep your stuff, and even if a guild needs to kick somebody who turned out not to be trustworthy - they usually show that quite soon and without much donations
I don't really like this solution either. Someone can be a total jerk and start trash talking but if they donated a whole lot of stuff to the mimic, the guild leaders will not want to lose all those donations and would be between a rock and a hard place. People would use it as an excuse to be a troll. I donated all that stuff, now you can't kick me or you'll be set back all that.
Plus, what would happen if you use the stuff in the mimic to build a building, and then the person leaves the guild? They can't get that stuff back, it would be exploited majorly.
I agree that some sort of checks and balances would be good, but it's probably best to just be in a guild with honest and trustworthy people.
then guild should decide whats more important - good atmosphere in guild or progress, and even if he is an HAMSTER, the stuff still does belong to him
and there shouldnt be problems with numbers going into negatives, unless some programmers have their hands growing out of their rear
Something like this happened with a guild allied with the one I'm in, theirs is a bit larger and has people who organize daily dragonflight runs at the same time every day. They always take down 2 dragons, and when they started inviting members of the guild I am in over, we even took down 3 dragons a couple times- it was awesome.
Apparently there was a disagreement of sorts though, because for whatever reason the cap of players in a SH instance is 40 (even though you should be able to have up to 80 players fighting 4 dragons without them becoming 'immune'), and at least one actual member of the guild was unable to get in for the runs they do every day. Let me emphasize that these happen every day and he could have simply showed up to the one tomorrow... still, I felt bad because I had no clue there even was a cap for the guild stronghold- ridiculous for huge active guilds.
So after a public argument with the main heads of the guild who were fine with this alliance, someone within the guild promoted the guy who had issues, who then demoted all the other people 'responsible' for the allied Dragonflight events, and kicked them. Talks have been had and he's even brought some people back in but he is currently the only rank 7 I believe within the guild, I'll admit all the information I have is secondhand since I'm not an official member- I was simply glad to help out on Dragonflight and also get a few fangs since our own guild is fairly smaller when it comes to active players.
I have two questions/concerns mainly: 1) WHY is there such an arbitrary cap like 40 for the Guild SH? I know WOD and other instances can go a fair bit above the cap if you try joining with a party member in the instance, seriously SH is huge there should be no reason to not up it to 60 or even the potential 80 for a 'perfect' Dragonflight.
2) Who's great idea was it to let a rank 7 demote another rank 7 without any question? Or to promote someone to rank 7 without some kind of confirmation or request from the other leaders? This is seriously messed up, someone has basically hijacked an entire guild because they were helping out a smaller guild of friends and he missed out on their DAILY Dragonflight event. Rank 7 is Guild Leader status, yeah, should have a lot of privileges, but when it comes to dealing with other Rank 7's there has to be some kind of check in place...
This is seriously depressing to hear about, especially since I am left feeling partially responsible being a member of the allied guild, when this is all something that could have been addressed years ago with some common sense...
Comments
It makes people who wouldn't normally contribute to a guild and participate , do so (I see this as a good thing)
It also makes it that the guilds have undue power over a player. (maybe not the best thing)
Overall I think the compromise of, if you leave a guild at any point, you retain the boons already opened, until such a time you enter a new guild.
It seems probably the best solution.
Let's say 10 ranks within a guild.
Through first 5 levels you progress on your own by giving donations. Guild or Cryptic can say what that level is. In these 5 levels you can be kicked out by (let's say) lvl 8,9 and 10 members.
After that you can only be kicked by a majority of other members above level 5 (reason must be stated). Guild has (let's say) 5 days to make a vote. Only accounts vote, not alts. If a member with a right for vote is not online during these 5 days his vote doesn't count at all (for example, if you have 10 accounts over lvl 5 and 3 of them are not online during these 5 voting days then the majority s 4/7. Those 3 don't count.). The vote can only be started by higher lvl members and if it doesn't succeed in the first try you have a cool down period of (let's say) 1 week after which you can start the same voting procedure.
Every big decision inside the guild can also be discussed like this, promote a player to a higher rank, demote higher rank players, building constructions, etc. Guild leaders will have a smaller power with this kind of system and the guild will work more like a whole entity.
Feel free to upgrade on this if you have a better idea or trash it.
I did realize that there is one more thing I forgot to mention with the original anecdote I had in my post, I will edit it in there after I post this.
About 3 weeks ago, our guild leader, who had been the only active rank 7 for months, decided to invite a new member and promote them instantly to rank 7. Nobody had ever talked to this person before. Nobody knew who she was, wasn't a very experienced or veteran player either. This is why I suspect the old leader has sold the guild, and that he is possibly following orders from this new person. I still think there is also a chance of his account being sold as well, and the new owner inviting and promoting one of their friends to rank 7, as that also makes sense.
Just realized I left that out, and wanted to make sure I am providing all relevant information!
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Thanks for all the fish.
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Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
I mean the whole name "donations" is so wrong because you do "donate" but only so you and other members can benefit from structures. It's more like an investment actually.
|| Axios Guild Leader || Neverwinter Trade Forum Moderator || Infernal Paragons ||
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All I said is IF you DONATED you will be high enough that only THE GUILD MEMBERS can kick you out (not one person). Let's change it a bit and look on donating as a '+' in your current rank. Your guild has 5 ranks with their names. You promote them as you see fit, but when a member gives (just an example) 5M AD he gets a '+' and can only be kicked with the help of other guild members of certain rank.
We did everything we could to get GMs to help us regain control of it but sadly we didn't get any help. We created a new guild so we could have a place to try to regroup when we could find each other.
The hacker kept control of our guild for several days before he booted everyone, but no one did anything to help us, they didn't even try to get our guild vault back to the same level that it was at and so I wouldn't expect a lot of help from the game if I were you.
I would suggest that there isn't a real need in the game for the shared guild vault, it only makes the guilds targets for hackers. The items that are normally stored in a shared vault are of little real value and it doesn't make sense to spend 700k AD for a vault room that holds 20k AD worth of potions and scrolls.
I think it would be in the best interest of the game if they took away the incentive to hack guilds by giving every person in the game a larger personal vault and did away with the guild vault.
It would probably be a good idea to make guilds spread leadership power to more than one person, let's say at least three rank 7s for any guild with ten or more active members. Make it impossible to boot or demote those three without both of the others agreeing to it, that way one rouge person couldn't destroy the guild, replace lost leaders automatically with most senior guild members that are active or vice versa.
I will also restate what I've said before in other posts that it's a mistake to use items needed for character development in the game (AD, Armor, Gems and Glory) for guild progression.
As to your buddy spending hundreds, sorry, I'm sure he's a great guy but that ones on him, I'm sure he weighed the risks when he spent the money, if not he should have, at least his misfortune may be an example to others of what to watch out for.
I'm in the same sort of position as @hustin1 of having been forced into leadership by attrition, with a small remaining group of casual players and an even smaller group of core players doggedly determined to make the SH work, even at a glacial pace. And for all that leaving for a larger/more active guild would be personally beneficial, I'm proud of what we have achieved, and moved by the support of those core players.
I do worry about what would happen if my account were compromised. I go back and forth with myself about the idea of opening recruitment again, which is something I let lapse as I lost my co-leaders. I miss having enough people online to actually run stuff as a guild. I'd kind of like to try the Dragonflight. The slow pace of SH advancement is frustrating even though I'm resigned to it. And so forth. But I can't just do open recruitment and vetted recruitment is somewhat demanding for just one person to handle.
The Aussie guild Fair Dinkum recently lost absolutely everything due to a compromised account as well. There was a thread about it in the recruitment forum, I think.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Yes, again, this is so very true. I want someone who will act like themselves, and apply the same moral standards to their actions in game as they would in real life.
|| Axios Guild Leader || Neverwinter Trade Forum Moderator || Infernal Paragons ||
Check out my foundry, titled "Akro's Gone Wacko", featuring our ex-CM Akromatik!: NW-DL8J7BY5T
Erza Moonstalker | Lara Moonstalker | Julie Marvell | Erza Moonhunter | Annie Hellangel | Jenn Moonstalker
Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
You can here voices change =P
or raidcall or whatever you want to use.. there are a # of them.
We started over with a new guild name and lost little outside of that, but with strongholds it would be a pretty devastating blow. I think the idea above from Silver about retaining your current boons until you join a new guild is a pretty good one.
I hope you find a new home that suits you.
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
make sure you check your surroundings for bots who may taking names when they were searching for big fish.
avoid questionable game websites or 3rd party selling sites which may have keyloggers, sometimes they use email to phishings.
not a full solution but would help, for inactive members - ppl who have donated a lot could be kept in guild longer, and kick them when u can afford it(they are usually the old members that have been in guild for ages and are kept for some time for a chance they come back), if you accidentally leave, or leave with an alt, you leave your stuff at guild, HAMSTER guild leader kicks you - you keep your stuff, and even if a guild needs to kick somebody who turned out not to be trustworthy - they usually show that quite soon and without much donations
Plus, what would happen if you use the stuff in the mimic to build a building, and then the person leaves the guild? They can't get that stuff back, it would be exploited majorly.
I agree that some sort of checks and balances would be good, but it's probably best to just be in a guild with honest and trustworthy people.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
and there shouldnt be problems with numbers going into negatives, unless some programmers have their hands growing out of their rear
Apparently there was a disagreement of sorts though, because for whatever reason the cap of players in a SH instance is 40 (even though you should be able to have up to 80 players fighting 4 dragons without them becoming 'immune'), and at least one actual member of the guild was unable to get in for the runs they do every day. Let me emphasize that these happen every day and he could have simply showed up to the one tomorrow... still, I felt bad because I had no clue there even was a cap for the guild stronghold- ridiculous for huge active guilds.
So after a public argument with the main heads of the guild who were fine with this alliance, someone within the guild promoted the guy who had issues, who then demoted all the other people 'responsible' for the allied Dragonflight events, and kicked them. Talks have been had and he's even brought some people back in but he is currently the only rank 7 I believe within the guild, I'll admit all the information I have is secondhand since I'm not an official member- I was simply glad to help out on Dragonflight and also get a few fangs since our own guild is fairly smaller when it comes to active players.
I have two questions/concerns mainly:
1) WHY is there such an arbitrary cap like 40 for the Guild SH? I know WOD and other instances can go a fair bit above the cap if you try joining with a party member in the instance, seriously SH is huge there should be no reason to not up it to 60 or even the potential 80 for a 'perfect' Dragonflight.
2) Who's great idea was it to let a rank 7 demote another rank 7 without any question? Or to promote someone to rank 7 without some kind of confirmation or request from the other leaders? This is seriously messed up, someone has basically hijacked an entire guild because they were helping out a smaller guild of friends and he missed out on their DAILY Dragonflight event. Rank 7 is Guild Leader status, yeah, should have a lot of privileges, but when it comes to dealing with other Rank 7's there has to be some kind of check in place...
This is seriously depressing to hear about, especially since I am left feeling partially responsible being a member of the allied guild, when this is all something that could have been addressed years ago with some common sense...