I'm in the same sort of position as @hustin1 of having been forced into leadership by attrition, with a small remaining group of casual players and an even smaller group of core players doggedly determined to make the SH work, even at a glacial pace. And for all that leaving for a larger/more active guild would be personally beneficial, I'm proud of what we have achieved, and moved by the support of those core players.
I do worry about what would happen if my account were compromised. I go back and forth with myself about the idea of opening recruitment again, which is something I let lapse as I lost my co-leaders. I miss having enough people online to actually run stuff as a guild. I'd kind of like to try the Dragonflight. The slow pace of SH advancement is frustrating even though I'm resigned to it. And so forth. But I can't just do open recruitment and vetted recruitment is somewhat demanding for just one person to handle.
The Aussie guild Fair Dinkum recently lost absolutely everything due to a compromised account as well. There was a thread about it in the recruitment forum, I think.
Yea we did lose everything but that was just before mod 7 came out so it was not to bad. We managed to rebuild and the rank 6 guild hall should be done today. Now we only have a single rank 7 as multiple rank 7's only give more ways to lose the guild
We talked to support and there was nothing they could/would do even though it was due to a rank 7's account being hacked.
The worst bit was trying to rebuild as no one keeps the entire guild on their friends list as well as the messages i got wondering why they were kicked. Also quite a few people quit the game over it as they didn't want to go intro strongholds knowing this could happen again.
The system really needs a rework, it's broken and causes a lot of grief. I don't really know what else to say other than that i don't want anyone else to go though what we did.
Two reasons, why the refund/guild on hold system will not work.
The first and formost reason, it would need work from cryptic and they cant be bothered to do anything more then really needed (sometimes they even ignore basic changes, that need to be implemented).
Second reason, abuse. Get some whales with deep pockets and get your new rank. In, lets say a year, we will have some Rank 20 guilds. If I am correct in my estimation, most of the highly progressed guilds have 5-10 players who contributed at last 50% of ADs etc, bc they can. Good for them and their guild. Their guild is maxed and a friends guild struggeles with the last boons/ranks. High contributers get kicked (their guild stays at max), join a new guild and wham, they can progress x level. You could even make a profession out of it. Get kicked, make a guild, get it to max lvl from your (and your friends) vauchers, sell it, get kicked and begin again.
1. Wouldn't be a reason, it would just be an excuse to let everything slide and to even stop trying to improve anything.
2. Again, the resources would only be shifted, and the guild they leave would lose their Stronghold benefits until the loss is refilled. That max. Stronghold would not just stay at max., it would lose all the benefits connected to those resourses being moved to that other guild.
The same goes for the guild, where they place their Stronghold Vouchers, as long as they stay in that guild, everything is working fine, the moment they get kicked out of that guild, the benefits of that guild will stop working again.
So, it will be hard to sell guilds with Stronghold "benefits", that could collapse at any time...
Besides, someone phrased it earlier fitting to this idea, the whole guild Stronghold thing with leaders and members is a two-way-street, which means, that boths "parties" should have equal rights in it.
But that is not the case. A guild leader has all the power, while any member has practically none. And that has to change!
Last but not least, while all those ideas of different guild regimes sound nice on paper, i doubt that the Devs will be able to implement it in time. And you can poke the same holes into those ideas as well.
But that doesn't change the fact, that an improvement is needed here!
I come to you today, in a pissed mood. I'm so angry that I decided to come onto the vanilla forums, even though I swore I was done with the forums after the migration, just to start this thread.
First, a short anecdote:
My guild leader seems to have sold either his account or the leadership of the guild, most likely for $$$, although I have not gotten him to confess to it, it is fairly obvious that something is wrong. This has led to a rather difficult issue for me and a large portion of the guild - It started with him kicking some of the older leaders, under the pretense that they had extorted 1000 gold from him, and demanded promotions to rank 7. (Ya know, cause people with rank 10s desperately need gold and all...). Anyways, another senior member questions it - kicked. I tried to talk to someone who was kicked - I'm kicked now. New rule is supposedly put in place - you talk to someone who was kicked, you get kicked for "betraying your guild leader". Then he'll make up some story about why you were kicked, you probably called him a HAMSTER (synonym for a female who charges money to undergo certain mature activities, 5 letters long, starts with a 'W', trying to get the word across without breaking any rules :P). Now, a large portion of the guild has lost all of the hard work we have put into the guild, we were at a stronghold rank 8 and a market rank 4, we had a rank 4 lifesteal boon already. Each of us has sunk MILLIONs of AD worth of stuff into the coffer for the guild, and we lost it. Now, we can't even contact anyone in that guild cause we are all on ignore, the leader has seemingly convinced everyone we are all traitors. One of us had spent over $250 on Zen Strongholds packs during the first week of strongholds alone. Cut loose because of a whackjob leader who either sold his account, or has a nut loose in his head.
EDIT: (Some more relevant information)
About 3 weeks ago, our guild leader, who had been the only active rank 7 for months, decided to invite a new member and promote them instantly to rank 7. Nobody had ever talked to this person before. Nobody knew who she was, wasn't a very experienced or veteran player either. This is why I suspect the old leader has sold the guild, and that he is possibly following orders from this new person. I still think there is also a chance of his account being sold as well, and the new owner inviting and promoting one of their friends to rank 7, as that also makes sense.
Edit 2: Today, the guild leader sent out a mail revealing he is in a new long-distance relationship with this new mysterious leader. Sounds to me like a guild hijack, and blatantly obvious one at that. The girl claims to be half of his age for gods sake. I'm so done with this, I've given up on this guild, and have been talking to various other leaders about finding a fairly well-progressed guild willing to take on 20-30 members, possibly more.
/end Anecdote.
My point in telling this story is to point out the fact that all it takes is one account to be hacked, compromised, or to go a bit crazy, and they can destroy the hard work of a guild, efforts that might have taken years eventually. If a guild leaders account is hacked, or sold **cough cough you know if I'm talking about you**, they can utterly destroy every bit of progress made by that guilds members. They can even demand payments from you in order to let you stay in the guild. I've lost the boon I spent two months working at, all cause my guild leader had a mental break, or sold his account/the guild. I'm not the only one. People spent actual money, just to lose it.
This brings me to the assumption that this system is flawed -> The fact that guild leaders have that kind of power over you, the power to take away your boons and stuff - That's scary. They have the power to blackmail people now. Especially when all it takes is one unsecure password and suddenly you have a chinese bot with that kind of control. Previously, all the bots could do was maybe rob your guild bank if they got the GL's account. Now, if they get the GL's account, they can destroy two months of progress in 5 minutes. Even worse, they could kick every member, and sell the guild for $1000+ online if it has made significant progress in strongholds.Imagine that, one day, logging on, and finding your guild has completely disappeared, and is now being sold by Chinese Bots.
Honestly, I don't really have any suggestions on improving/fixing this, other than putting some sort of CS response protocols in handling this stuff. I don't even know what I can do, this type of thing shouldn't be able to happen, and if it does happen, support should be able to handle it.
Thoughts and Suggestions on how to prevent abuse on the boon and SH ranking system by Mental guild leaders, hacked (compromised) accounts, etc?
Edit by me: Most of the words censored are the same word - a synonym for an account being compromised. I don't want people to think that I'm cursing off guild leaders every other sentence XD
Mod edit - please do not attempt to circumvent the censor by use of *. Sorry.
Dear OP!
I feel your pain and if it eases it a bit i can tell you, this is not something new. In fact i lost my own 2 guilds (was co-founder and co-leader) in similar manner, one the main and one we had for overflow members (connected via a private channel) and for alts.
The thing is, that i don't even have to tell you my story, cause it is nearly the same as yours, and now hold on to your seat, it was a "she" too.
After i had to flee my guild, i started a little bit of investigating and you would be surprised to now the details, i am sure.
I also contacted game staff for support back the, nada help. They said it is a private matter.
So yes i do agree on the subject, there really should be a countermeasure against lunatics, old men going nuts for virtual young "ladies" and other tricksters, cause 150 members have to pay the price of 1 burglar.
Wish you good luck mate!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I come to you today, in a pissed mood. I'm so angry that I decided to come onto the vanilla forums, even though I swore I was done with the forums after the migration, just to start this thread.
First, a short anecdote:
My guild leader seems to have sold either his account or the leadership of the guild, most likely for $$$, although I have not gotten him to confess to it, it is fairly obvious that something is wrong. This has led to a rather difficult issue for me and a large portion of the guild - It started with him kicking some of the older leaders, under the pretense that they had extorted 1000 gold from him, and demanded promotions to rank 7. (Ya know, cause people with rank 10s desperately need gold and all...). Anyways, another senior member questions it - kicked. I tried to talk to someone who was kicked - I'm kicked now. New rule is supposedly put in place - you talk to someone who was kicked, you get kicked for "betraying your guild leader". Then he'll make up some story about why you were kicked, you probably called him a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> (synonym for a female who charges money to undergo certain mature activities, 5 letters long, starts with a 'W', trying to get the word across without breaking any rules :P). Now, a large portion of the guild has lost all of the hard work we have put into the guild, we were at a stronghold rank 8 and a market rank 4, we had a rank 4 lifesteal boon already. Each of us has sunk MILLIONs of AD worth of stuff into the coffer for the guild, and we lost it. Now, we can't even contact anyone in that guild cause we are all on ignore, the leader has seemingly convinced everyone we are all traitors. One of us had spent over $250 on Zen Strongholds packs during the first week of strongholds alone. Cut loose because of a whackjob leader who either sold his account, or has a nut loose in his head.
EDIT: (Some more relevant information)
About 3 weeks ago, our guild leader, who had been the only active rank 7 for months, decided to invite a new member and promote them instantly to rank 7. Nobody had ever talked to this person before. Nobody knew who she was, wasn't a very experienced or veteran player either. This is why I suspect the old leader has sold the guild, and that he is possibly following orders from this new person. I still think there is also a chance of his account being sold as well, and the new owner inviting and promoting one of their friends to rank 7, as that also makes sense.
Edit 2: Today, the guild leader sent out a mail revealing he is in a new long-distance relationship with this new mysterious leader. Sounds to me like a guild hijack, and blatantly obvious one at that. The girl claims to be half of his age for gods sake. I'm so done with this, I've given up on this guild, and have been talking to various other leaders about finding a fairly well-progressed guild willing to take on 20-30 members, possibly more.
/end Anecdote.
My point in telling this story is to point out the fact that all it takes is one account to be hacked, compromised, or to go a bit crazy, and they can destroy the hard work of a guild, efforts that might have taken years eventually. If a guild leaders account is hacked, or sold **cough cough you know if I'm talking about you**, they can utterly destroy every bit of progress made by that guilds members. They can even demand payments from you in order to let you stay in the guild. I've lost the boon I spent two months working at, all cause my guild leader had a mental break, or sold his account/the guild. I'm not the only one. People spent actual money, just to lose it.
This brings me to the assumption that this system is flawed -> The fact that guild leaders have that kind of power over you, the power to take away your boons and stuff - That's scary. They have the power to blackmail people now. Especially when all it takes is one unsecure password and suddenly you have a chinese bot with that kind of control. Previously, all the bots could do was maybe rob your guild bank if they got the GL's account. Now, if they get the GL's account, they can destroy two months of progress in 5 minutes. Even worse, they could kick every member, and sell the guild for $1000+ online if it has made significant progress in strongholds. Imagine that, one day, logging on, and finding your guild has completely disappeared, and is now being sold by Chinese Bots.
Honestly, I don't really have any suggestions on improving/fixing this, other than putting some sort of CS response protocols in handling this stuff. I don't even know what I can do, this type of thing shouldn't be able to happen, and if it does happen, support should be able to handle it.
Thoughts and Suggestions on how to prevent abuse on the boon and SH ranking system by Mental guild leaders, hacked (compromised) accounts, etc?
Edit by me: Most of the words censored are the same word - a synonym for an account being compromised. I don't want people to think that I'm cursing off guild leaders every other sentence XD
Mod edit - please do not attempt to circumvent the censor by use of *. Sorry.
Dear OP!
I feel your pain and if it eases it a bit i can tell you, this is not something new. In fact i lost my own 2 guilds (was co-founder and co-leader) in similar manner, one the main and one we had for overflow members (connected via a private channel) and for alts.
The thing is, that i don't even have to tell you my story, cause it is nearly the same as yours, and now hold on to your seat, it was a "she" too.
After i had to flee my guild, i started a little bit of investigating and you would be surprised to now the details, i am sure.
I also contacted game staff for support back the, nada help. They said it is a private matter.
So yes i do agree on the subject, there really should be a countermeasure against lunatics, old men going nuts for virtual young "ladies" and other tricksters, cause 150 members have to pay the price of 1 burglar.
Wish you good luck mate!
Can you mail me the name of this person in-game @katamaster81899. I've heard rumors that this person has done this to other guilds before, and if it's the same person, maybe we can get support to look into it.
Just to flip this a little. Imagine if you formed a guild 3 years ago. Players and officers came and went, new blood comes in. Guild life goes on on, all seems fine then one day you, the founder and leader, gets voted out of power by an officers' coup. You realise too late that you promoted one bad apple who gradually moved his/her mates into positions of power than booted you. Doesn't seem very fair to me.
The dictatorship model has its drawbacks but it is the only way that works. You know what you are signing up to and donating the SH is a free choice you make.
That being said, this is actually one of my worst (if not THE worst) fear I have as a leader of a large guild. If my account was compromised, or I lost control of it...one jerk could destroy in minutes the hard work of hundreds of people and countless resources. I would love to see some sort of "secondary" check in place to help prevent mass booting and looting for a guild.
How about a system where you can set a guild permission for ranks that can only be promoted to it or demoted from it if a vote passes from the other members of that rank (or higher) with a simple majority. You then make it so if this option is changed by anyone, it has to pass another vote to change the privilege.
It's not perfect, but it would be a heck of a lot harder for things like this to happen, or happen very quickly.
But I agree with the points made in general here...ultimately the guild leader has WAY too much power with no safeguards right now.
The most viable idea, imo. I would put it in place for the guild kick too.
Thx god not all the guild leader are like that one o.0 Erza find a new guild and have fun play ^^ There no needs of a rank ina guild to have fun. At the moments rank in guild mean nothing, you didn't get more power for boons or more advantage, it's just a tag before your name in the guild rooster.
Just to flip this a little. Imagine if you formed a guild 3 years ago. Players and officers came and went, new blood comes in. Guild life goes on on, all seems fine then one day you, the founder and leader, gets voted out of power by an officers' coup. You realise too late that you promoted one bad apple who gradually moved his/her mates into positions of power than booted you. Doesn't seem very fair to me.
The dictatorship model has its drawbacks but it is the only way that works. You know what you are signing up to and donating the SH is a free choice you make.
Ah, but you see, by your scenerio you didn't promote "1 bad apple". If you are a good leader and you had more than 1 officer that could coup you, it's not the 1 bad apple that did you in. It would take more than 1 to do it in the first place. The means that "1 bad apple" convinced the other officer(s) that you weren't a good leader. Someone that was your friend for 3 yrs or more, suddenly is convinced by someone they have known for a month that they should overthrow you and take everything from you.
Hmmmm, were you a "good leader"? It took more than Brutus to take Caesar down, it took a whole cadre of enemies so fed up with Caesar's abuses and humiliations to band together with enough gumption to "back stab" Caesar to death....Et tu Brutus?
If you were a good leader, and that original officer was a "friend", wouldn't they apprise you of what was happening? Wouldn't they help you get rid of that "1 bad apple"? If they were your friend that is...... and if you were actually a good leader that is......
A good leader is in touch with his membership, he/she has a healthy give and take on a regular basis with his membership, if he was a good leader they would want him not some new upstart. The only way a leader would be coup is if they were actually a BAD leader.
Lets flip it back should we? (1) leader can ruin it for up to 149 other characters. He can be a psycho and steal everything and every effort of all those other players in a matter of minutes on a whim that could have been the culmination of yrs of work. (1) person. But in the officer take over scenerio, it would take at least (2) or more officers WITH NOTICE and a COOL DOWN PERIOD to take from that abusive leader the power to continue the abuse.
With this idea, if the leader was in fact good, but had been the unfortunate victim of a H*aCk. Why would he be adverse to this structure? If he is a good leader he wants the best for his guild and wants his friends protected, with this the officers could stop a compromised account from ruining the guild.
Do you think that every country that has an elected leader, not a (in name only elected leader), doesn't have a dynamic for a underling with support from others, to take control from the elected leader? If say the Pres. of USA or Germany for instance, had a mental breakdown or some debilitating illness that there isn't some plan for the VP to take peaceful control from the compromised President? I assure you there is.
We are asking for this...a structure that can be selected as a guild option, to preset how control can be transfered, peacefully, to another leader if something goes wrong with the first leader. Think of it like this: someone injected your guild leader with a drug that drives them psychotic, what structure is in place to take the guild leader in protective custody, and get them the care they need, and while they are debilitated, how does the continuity of guild business carry on until the leader is all better?
Hey, if you and your friends are satisfied with the benevolent dictator model, more power to you, you can forgo the options we are asking for. If you are that leader that worries about a coup, choose that option and select the clique that also prefers that. But there are others like us that would like another way, *shrug* are you arguing we should endure a dictator if we don't want one?
0
Options
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,259Arc User
I think is too late, but an idea could be that you BUY boons with guild currency. No matters if you are in a guild or in other. The more you contribute, the faster you advance in boons. If you get kicked, you go to other guild and continue advancing.
The structures gives acces to better gear and better pvp structures, maybe something more but not player advance.
Rank 7 is Guild Leader status, yeah, should have a lot of privileges, but when it comes to dealing with other Rank 7's there has to be some kind of check in place...
As a fleet leader in another Cryptic MMO, Star Trek Online, I knew with the release of Strongholds that it was only a matter of time that the usual shenanigans related to guilds/fleets/whatever would eventually occur here. With STO, they introduced the fleet Starbase (their version of a Stronghold) over three years ago. Back then, we saw the same problems that we're seeing now in Neverwinter. It took about a year, but Cryptic addressed the Fleet/Guild Leader security issue with this patch.
My guess is that we'll see a similar system make it's way here at some point.
But as stated in that STO dev blog: "Ultimately, this system works best with a Fleet that has three Fleet Leaders or more."
One thing that should always be clear: if your guild has only ONE guild leader, you should always be cognizant that this person is the defacto KING of said guild. If he/she is a beneficent one, then all the realms will rejoice. If not, then don't be surprised if your King turns dictator at some point, or as the OP contends, turns into somebody completely different. Either way, the choice for which guild one decides to join is solely up to them, and with it come the benefits and/or consequences.
This patch needs to be implemented in NW immediately. If they can do it STO they can do it in NW. That way you know what you're getting into if you join a guild that doesn't put these controls in place. Our guild leader's account was hacked back in mod 5 which was a real pain for him, but had no impact on the rest of us. I shudder to think if it happened to him now. And I am sure guild leaders will get targeted for this.
I should probably add - that won't fix the problem that someone can contribute to a guild and can be kicked, but it does mitigate the risk of complete guild takeover. I do like the idea that you could hang on to your previous active guild boons until you rejoin a guild to deal with the second issue, but I think the risk of guild leaders being targeted is a real problem. As someone else said, in the present set up having more than one leader just creates more targets. The STO patch would prevent this. Can one of the mods please highlight this solution to the devs?
So... why would it appear that all manner of nefarious actions are allowed? Because, STO. I've said it before. That game has had the SH equivalent since mid-2012. If they haven't changed it there, what makes you think they'll change anything here? If that means it was poorly designed, then poor design has been A-okay with them for years now.
Bottom line, guild leaders have all the power. They are the rulers of their guild, and thus have the ability to do what they want with that guild, within the TOS. The power that "regular" guild members have lies in the fact that they can leave guilds at will. This whole guild relationship thing is completely voluntary, and if anybody thinks that they're due ownership of a guild as a non-rank 7 member, they are sadly mistaken. And no amount of social engineering will change that.
Surely the patch that was linked at STO addresses this?
I've heard of that too the goldsellers even offer in zone to buy AD so why not a guild ? Sad that ppl really kick others out to do that. Lucky I'm in a guild with friends and we don't have that problem, if ppl give us a mail that they have a break or just can't come in for a long time, we never will kick them because we know how hard it is to upgrade everything and we understand that ppl have a real life. For ppl that want to join us too we are Obsidian Blade
why the refund/guild on hold system will not work.
Second reason, abuse. Get some whales with deep pockets and get your new rank. In, lets say a year, we will have some Rank 20 guilds. If I am correct in my estimation, most of the highly progressed guilds have 5-10 players who contributed at last 50% of ADs etc, bc they can. Good for them and their guild. Their guild is maxed and a friends guild struggeles with the last boons/ranks. High contributers get kicked (their guild stays at max), join a new guild and wham, they can progress x level. You could even make a profession out of it. Get kicked, make a guild, get it to max lvl from your (and your friends) vauchers, sell it, get kicked and begin again.
Well, yes, assuming you keep the rank that you've earned and need to backfill the resources.
The issue seems to be one of abuse, and seeking to limit the abuse. Perhaps a slightly different approach? Note, this is purely theoretical because I haven't been in the game since July due to the Bonus Companion issue (which will be addressed Friday?), so I may get details wrong. Please look at the idea as a whole, and don't get bogged down by details since it can be adjusted to fit reality.
The problem of guild leaders "going nuts" and kicking everyone out, then selling the leveled guild is addressed by linking the resources to the players and not the guild.
This is fine in theory, except for guild hoppers and "whales". Someone who has put in a lot of resources suddenly has a lot of power, and thus a similar power problem occurs.
Why not go for a compromise? First off, think of a guild like a business partnership. A group of people have pooled resources in order to achieve something larger than they could do individually.
Like a business partnership, if a partnership is dissolved, all members get an equal stake. That doesn't really work here, but if a guild is disbanded, then everyone gets back what they donated, less some amount that was "used up". Like a business partnership, partners can leave the partnership (either voluntarily or by force). If so, the partnership is essentially dissolved and reformed with the remaining partners. Everyone gets their stake, and the person that left isn't left out in the cold. Again, not quite the same, but a similar idea to above.
To further prevent abuse, if a guild loses resources due to member loss, then the guild should only be whatever rank it would be with the current resource total.
Meaning, each person keeps the majority of what they have put into the game (resource wise), there is protection against guild hoppers and abuse of power on both sides. There is incentive to keep piling on resources, and so on.
The details could be worked out, but you could do something like this. Set up guild reputation such that a player commits resources to a guild as their reputation increases. This protects against guild hoppers, and insta-guild level by just recruiting folks with lots of resources. Set 6 ranks of rep, rank 1 = 0% committed, 2 = 20%, &ct. Rep is gained by purposefully perma-donating to a guild (with limits) and by doing things with the guild/guild groups, or over time. Time gain is 1 rank per month, so the first day of the 6th month after joining, even if nothing else is done, they are max rank. At max rank, you get the full bonus for the guild and the guild gets full access to your resources.
Perma-donated resources are owned by the guild.
There is always a 5% "used up" amount for personal committed resources.
If a guild is disbanded, players get back all of the resources they personally committed (less 5%), plus some portion of guild owned resources, less 10% (based on rank or other factors, so a rank 1 gets 0% of the guild resources for a disband).
Similarly, time and rank will determine how much a player loses in other circumstances. A player fully commits 2% per rank (past the first) and 2% per month (or month part) to the guild (after the first month). Thus, a person that has been in a guild less than a month and has not ranked up at all loses no resources. A person who is max rank and has been in a guild for 6 months has committed 20% of their resources.
If they decide to leave the guild they lose the 5% (used up) amount plus the resources that they've fully committed. The guild retains half the resources they've fully committed. So, a fully ranked member who has been in the guild for 6 months keeps 75% of their personal resources, and the guild keeps 10%.
If the guild kicks the member, the member loses 5%, plus half the committed amount. The guild retains a quarter of the committed amount.
Leave Guild any reason then.The best solution I could come up with is you keep bought items you lose any item invested in SH. you will have boons of guild you are or were in. Other words get 2 boons from GUILD then leave you keep those 2 earned boons BUT join another guild then lose those boons and get the boons of current guild you would go up or down depends on new guild
jhp You should check your leadership before ever joining a Guild I looked hard and really liked Kvet our guild leader so I joined but he left game due to burn out and leadership changes but he left us with a handful of good governors so we survived but it could just as well gone bad also. So just goes to show S++t happens don't invest more in a guild than you can afford to lose. Think to your self can this advance my Toon then use for your self I have this already need AD sell it keep AD. If you cant advance your toon and you lose nothing then help the guild grow. jhp
wow..... just... wow!!! I'm so sorry you had to deal with this type of HAMSTER ezra!! Seems like there is some kind of a strange set up going on. Any either way this is seriously wrong!
If you kick people from the guild, they would take their resources in Stronghold Vouchers with them. But any building/upgrade in progess would be put on hold, the resources loss would be set as "main contribution target", and nothing could be build/upgraded until that loss is being replenished.
And resources are used to build/upgrade a Stronghold, they are not just "donations" to get guild marks.
They are used to get access to Stronghold benefits.
If you paved the way to those benefits with your time and/or money, then you should indeed receive a refund, when someone just kicks you out of the guild.
You're not getting anything double or extra, you only get your time and/or money back you invested in that guild. But you still lose all the guild/Stronghold benefits.
And the same goes for the guild, there is no point in kicking people out of the guild for those Stronghold Vouchers, since the resources they take, have to be replenished before anything else can be build/upgraded.
Anyway, if you want to play the "griefing" game, you can find a lot more easier/other ways to do that.
And as allready mentioned, that might work with new guilds, but you will have a hard time to do that to a well established guild... your @handle will be known, and no one will waste time with inviting you.
And by the Same token a Guild Leader in the current system whom Griefs will have his/her @name Know and will only be able to grief new players for a short time until it is common knowledge. all you are doing is Shifting the burden of Naming and Shaming from a Guild Leader to an Individual griefer. That being said all I have to do is wait for the current Target to be Built then Kick the offending person out and they get nothing back using your system, I have already worked around it. And we are back to the Starting point. someone got kicked and lost all their COntributions using your system and receives nothing back.
Did you miss the part where he said they lose all the resources and are not able to continue with any upgrades until they replace them? So in your case the guy that is getting kicked gets his vouchers and the guild has to re-collect the resources he takes with him or they're stuck at whatever level they were beforehand.
What this system actually does is shift the burden onto a guild and it's leaders to attempt to resolve issues with their members instead of kicking them on a whim. If someone is behaving so poorly that they actually need to be kicked then it would be more than worth the loss of resources to the guild.
Comments
Now we only have a single rank 7 as multiple rank 7's only give more ways to lose the guild
We talked to support and there was nothing they could/would do even though it was due to a rank 7's account being hacked.
The worst bit was trying to rebuild as no one keeps the entire guild on their friends list as well as the messages i got wondering why they were kicked. Also quite a few people quit the game over it as they didn't want to go intro strongholds knowing this could happen again.
The system really needs a rework, it's broken and causes a lot of grief. I don't really know what else to say other than that i don't want anyone else to go though what we did.
- Runazeeri Webber "Fair Dinkum 2.0"
2. Again, the resources would only be shifted, and the guild they leave would lose their Stronghold benefits until the loss is refilled. That max. Stronghold would not just stay at max., it would lose all the benefits connected to those resourses being moved to that other guild.
The same goes for the guild, where they place their Stronghold Vouchers, as long as they stay in that guild, everything is working fine, the moment they get kicked out of that guild, the benefits of that guild will stop working again.
So, it will be hard to sell guilds with Stronghold "benefits", that could collapse at any time...
Besides, someone phrased it earlier fitting to this idea, the whole guild Stronghold thing with leaders and members is a two-way-street, which means, that boths "parties" should have equal rights in it.
But that is not the case. A guild leader has all the power, while any member has practically none.
And that has to change!
Last but not least, while all those ideas of different guild regimes sound nice on paper, i doubt that the Devs will be able to implement it in time. And you can poke the same holes into those ideas as well.
But that doesn't change the fact, that an improvement is needed here!
I feel your pain and if it eases it a bit i can tell you, this is not something new. In fact i lost my own 2 guilds (was co-founder and co-leader) in similar manner, one the main and one we had for overflow members (connected via a private channel) and for alts.
The thing is, that i don't even have to tell you my story, cause it is nearly the same as yours, and now hold on to your seat, it was a "she" too.
After i had to flee my guild, i started a little bit of investigating and you would be surprised to now the details, i am sure.
I also contacted game staff for support back the, nada help. They said it is a private matter.
So yes i do agree on the subject, there really should be a countermeasure against lunatics, old men going nuts for virtual young "ladies" and other tricksters, cause 150 members have to pay the price of 1 burglar.
Wish you good luck mate!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Can you mail me the name of this person in-game @katamaster81899. I've heard rumors that this person has done this to other guilds before, and if it's the same person, maybe we can get support to look into it.
|| Axios Guild Leader || Neverwinter Trade Forum Moderator || Infernal Paragons ||
Check out my foundry, titled "Akro's Gone Wacko", featuring our ex-CM Akromatik!: NW-DL8J7BY5T
Erza Moonstalker | Lara Moonstalker | Julie Marvell | Erza Moonhunter | Annie Hellangel | Jenn Moonstalker
Thaumaturge's Time To Shine: A Complete Guide
The dictatorship model has its drawbacks but it is the only way that works. You know what you are signing up to and donating the SH is a free choice you make.
I would put it in place for the guild kick too.
With a timer for voting (a set time of X days)
Lethinath - DC
Fayn Fiddler - HR
Jean Fiddler - OP
Quinn Fiddler - TR
Tre'Davious Flynn - SW
Bogus Skullslicker - GF
Vanhankaupunginselk - CW
Alea - GWF
Noble Misfits
Hmmmm, were you a "good leader"? It took more than Brutus to take Caesar down, it took a whole cadre of enemies so fed up with Caesar's abuses and humiliations to band together with enough gumption to "back stab" Caesar to death....Et tu Brutus?
If you were a good leader, and that original officer was a "friend", wouldn't they apprise you of what was happening? Wouldn't they help you get rid of that "1 bad apple"? If they were your friend that is...... and if you were actually a good leader that is......
A good leader is in touch with his membership, he/she has a healthy give and take on a regular basis with his membership, if he was a good leader they would want him not some new upstart. The only way a leader would be coup is if they were actually a BAD leader.
Lets flip it back should we? (1) leader can ruin it for up to 149 other characters. He can be a psycho and steal everything and every effort of all those other players in a matter of minutes on a whim that could have been the culmination of yrs of work. (1) person. But in the officer take over scenerio, it would take at least (2) or more officers WITH NOTICE and a COOL DOWN PERIOD to take from that abusive leader the power to continue the abuse.
With this idea, if the leader was in fact good, but had been the unfortunate victim of a H*aCk. Why would he be adverse to this structure? If he is a good leader he wants the best for his guild and wants his friends protected, with this the officers could stop a compromised account from ruining the guild.
Do you think that every country that has an elected leader, not a (in name only elected leader), doesn't have a dynamic for a underling with support from others, to take control from the elected leader? If say the Pres. of USA or Germany for instance, had a mental breakdown or some debilitating illness that there isn't some plan for the VP to take peaceful control from the compromised President? I assure you there is.
We are asking for this...a structure that can be selected as a guild option, to preset how control can be transfered, peacefully, to another leader if something goes wrong with the first leader. Think of it like this: someone injected your guild leader with a drug that drives them psychotic, what structure is in place to take the guild leader in protective custody, and get them the care they need, and while they are debilitated, how does the continuity of guild business carry on until the leader is all better?
Hey, if you and your friends are satisfied with the benevolent dictator model, more power to you, you can forgo the options we are asking for. If you are that leader that worries about a coup, choose that option and select the clique that also prefers that. But there are others like us that would like another way, *shrug* are you arguing we should endure a dictator if we don't want one?
The structures gives acces to better gear and better pvp structures, maybe something more but not player advance.
Caturday Survivor
Elemental Evil Survivor
Undermontain Survivor
Mod20 Combat rework Survivor
Mod22 Refinement rework Survivor
Our guild leader's account was hacked back in mod 5 which was a real pain for him, but had no impact on the rest of us. I shudder to think if it happened to him now. And I am sure guild leaders will get targeted for this.
The issue seems to be one of abuse, and seeking to limit the abuse. Perhaps a slightly different approach?
Note, this is purely theoretical because I haven't been in the game since July due to the Bonus Companion issue (which will be addressed Friday?), so I may get details wrong. Please look at the idea as a whole, and don't get bogged down by details since it can be adjusted to fit reality.
The problem of guild leaders "going nuts" and kicking everyone out, then selling the leveled guild is addressed by linking the resources to the players and not the guild.
This is fine in theory, except for guild hoppers and "whales". Someone who has put in a lot of resources suddenly has a lot of power, and thus a similar power problem occurs.
Why not go for a compromise?
First off, think of a guild like a business partnership. A group of people have pooled resources in order to achieve something larger than they could do individually.
Like a business partnership, if a partnership is dissolved, all members get an equal stake. That doesn't really work here, but if a guild is disbanded, then everyone gets back what they donated, less some amount that was "used up".
Like a business partnership, partners can leave the partnership (either voluntarily or by force). If so, the partnership is essentially dissolved and reformed with the remaining partners. Everyone gets their stake, and the person that left isn't left out in the cold. Again, not quite the same, but a similar idea to above.
To further prevent abuse, if a guild loses resources due to member loss, then the guild should only be whatever rank it would be with the current resource total.
Meaning, each person keeps the majority of what they have put into the game (resource wise), there is protection against guild hoppers and abuse of power on both sides. There is incentive to keep piling on resources, and so on.
The details could be worked out, but you could do something like this.
Set up guild reputation such that a player commits resources to a guild as their reputation increases. This protects against guild hoppers, and insta-guild level by just recruiting folks with lots of resources. Set 6 ranks of rep, rank 1 = 0% committed, 2 = 20%, &ct. Rep is gained by purposefully perma-donating to a guild (with limits) and by doing things with the guild/guild groups, or over time. Time gain is 1 rank per month, so the first day of the 6th month after joining, even if nothing else is done, they are max rank. At max rank, you get the full bonus for the guild and the guild gets full access to your resources.
Perma-donated resources are owned by the guild.
There is always a 5% "used up" amount for personal committed resources.
If a guild is disbanded, players get back all of the resources they personally committed (less 5%), plus some portion of guild owned resources, less 10% (based on rank or other factors, so a rank 1 gets 0% of the guild resources for a disband).
Similarly, time and rank will determine how much a player loses in other circumstances. A player fully commits 2% per rank (past the first) and 2% per month (or month part) to the guild (after the first month). Thus, a person that has been in a guild less than a month and has not ranked up at all loses no resources. A person who is max rank and has been in a guild for 6 months has committed 20% of their resources.
If they decide to leave the guild they lose the 5% (used up) amount plus the resources that they've fully committed. The guild retains half the resources they've fully committed. So, a fully ranked member who has been in the guild for 6 months keeps 75% of their personal resources, and the guild keeps 10%.
If the guild kicks the member, the member loses 5%, plus half the committed amount. The guild retains a quarter of the committed amount.
In the game, I'm @Knickknacks.
jhp
You should check your leadership before ever joining a Guild I looked hard and really liked Kvet our guild leader so I joined but he left game due to burn out and leadership changes but he left us with a handful of good governors so we survived but it could just as well gone bad also. So just goes to show S++t happens don't invest more in a guild than you can afford to lose. Think to your self can this advance my Toon then use for your self I have this already need AD sell it keep AD. If you cant advance your toon and you lose nothing then help the guild grow.
jhp
And by the Same token a Guild Leader in the current system whom Griefs will have his/her @name Know and will only be able to grief new players for a short time until it is common knowledge. all you are doing is Shifting the burden of Naming and Shaming from a Guild Leader to an Individual griefer. That being said all I have to do is wait for the current Target to be Built then Kick the offending person out and they get nothing back using your system, I have already worked around it. And we are back to the Starting point. someone got kicked and lost all their COntributions using your system and receives nothing back.
Did you miss the part where he said they lose all the resources and are not able to continue with any upgrades until they replace them? So in your case the guy that is getting kicked gets his vouchers and the guild has to re-collect the resources he takes with him or they're stuck at whatever level they were beforehand.
What this system actually does is shift the burden onto a guild and it's leaders to attempt to resolve issues with their members instead of kicking them on a whim. If someone is behaving so poorly that they actually need to be kicked then it would be more than worth the loss of resources to the guild.