If they **** the GL there isn't a whole lot that can be done on the players side for sure, if the account was sold, that too is little that can be done without cryptic investigating on a one to one basis, they could accuse the new owner of course, but unless they actually have evidence that the person on the other end isn't the person that previously bought zen etc, (especially in a F2P, how can they prove "fraud").
This is really easy to prove actually. They just check to see if there's a change in the pattern of where the account is being accessed from. You wouldn't believe how stupid people can be about this sort of thing.
Umm. populations migrate. So I logged on in Spokane yesterday, and today I logged on in Amsterdam. Who at Cryptic is a super-sleuth to know if I, logging half way around the world, it isn't REALLY me? So am I businessman on assignment? Am I a sex trade worker, a international drug smuggler? Who am I? So I logged on in Las Vegas @ 10 pm PST for 2 yrs every weekend and holidays, now I log on in Moscow @ 3 pm local time every other day. Is Cryptic going to send someone to my new address to confirm that, yes, I did/didn't immigrate to Moscow?
So I used to buy Zen with a Amex card #1234-5678-9102-3456 ISS # 1234 a card registered to BofA, now I buy Zen with a Discover card #9876-5432-1098-7654 ISS #333 a card registered to wells fargo of florida..is it me or someone else? Did I move to florida and change my card/address? Or am I someone that the previous "me" sold and account to? Did I buy Zen then, but not now, because now I'm on a fixed income and I moved to florida to retire in the heat?
How does Cryptic KNOW I'm "me" and not some other "me" that bought my account? It's EXTREMELY hard to do so, that's why they very rarely if ever ban accounts because of that, is the new "me" a bigger spender than the old "me"? Maybe they don't want to risk the greater revenue flow from the new "me" from offending the new "me" questioning "me" if I'm really "me" or some other "me".
Barring some outside confirmation/evidence it's hard to prove an account has been sold, I would have to post my account for sale somewhere were they actually monitored, then trace the sale say via EBay to the purchaser, then them actually logging on and making account changes.
This is all of course presumptive that they actually want to "catch" the new "me" and ban "me". Maybe the new "me" having the cash in RL to buy the account, is a big spender and they like the new "me" better than the formerly tight fisted old "me"
They put your account on hold and you have to prove that you're the original account holder. I've reported multiple people for this in Blacklight that have been banned. It's really nowhere near as hard as you're making it out to be and actually one of the easiest ways for someone to catch a ban.
Oh, please. No guild leader in their right mind would kick someone that spent $250 on stronghold packs to contribute to the SH. That's like shooting youself in the foot.
Why not? If somebody cant behave and spoils fun of people in guild - and refuses to improve his behavior - I find it ok to remove him, even if he built a level 1-20 GH by himself (I know, it usually takes "a bit" less than 190 days to notice somebody shouldnt be a member of your guild :P ) - I prefer to run with elemental stuff and have fun than with stronghold one and be annoyed in my free time.
Kicking 20+ is a clear sign that something is wrong on his end. Furthermore your example is just as bad as OP's. Kicking a large part of your guild on word of mouth is ridiculous. These things generally are as simple as they seem when something extreme happens.
I used overexaggerated example to show what I meant. Im not talking about details what happened in OPs situation, because of reason I mentioned - all I have are his words. And I dont even want to judge it - its not my business, I used hypothetical example what could have happened to show what I meant, even though I dont think it actually did. Just saying that, in general, support and people that arent directly involved in conflict do not/should not have power to solve it - unless a ToS rule has been brightly broken.
And it's not that posting drama is prohibited. Naming and shaming is prohibited. OP didn't do that.
I said usually as for "in most mmo games forums", not on this one. Its not prohibited here... yet - because its new. Maybe Im wrong, but I think after a couple of posted dramas, when people in power realize where it leads when you let them run - they will be terminated here quickly as well - time will tell.
Why not? If somebody cant behave and spoils fun of people in guild - and refuses to improve his behavior - I find it ok to remove him, even if he built a level 1-20 GH by himself (I know, it usually takes "a bit" less than 190 days to notice somebody shouldnt be a member of your guild :P ) - I prefer to run with elemental stuff and have fun than with stronghold one and be annoyed in my free time.
Frankly, I'm not even sure how one person could ruin the "fun" for a guild of 100+ people. Sounds like a case of panties getting bunched too tightly. You just exclude them from group activities until they start behaving. And really if someone is contributing that much the chances of them actually behaving poorly enough to deserve being kicked are very low anyways. That's part of why I'm much more inclined to believe OP in this case. People that are invested in something to that degree are just that much less likely to misbehave.
I used overexaggerated example to show what I meant. Im not talking about details what happened in OPs situation, because of reason I mentioned - all I have are his words. And I dont even want to judge it - its not my business, I used hypothetical example what could have happened to show what I meant, even though I dont think it actually did. Just saying that, in general, support and people that arent directly involved in conflict do not/should not have power to solve it - unless a ToS rule has been brightly broken.
Look, the one thing we have in this case is that at least 20+ people were kicked or left the guild because of the guild leader. Something is wrong. If things like this continue to happen it could eventually become your problem. It's actually in everyone's interest that things like this are thoroughly investigated by CS so that they know better how to handle problems like this and can prevent them in the future. Assuming that something didn't go wrong is how people like the guild leader in this case get away with HAMSTER.
You'd actually be surprised how much community outcry can effect change. Heck in Blacklight we managed to get them to redo the entire shooting system by complaining for a month.
Lol, and it would be so simple to prove you are the original account holder. What do you give that cryptic actually knows when you set up an account? 1. Email, when selling the account via ebay or whatever they communicate with their email, the guy buying the account has your email, shortly after buying your account he changes the email to his, that's the new email associated with the account, people change their emails all the time. that's nothing "secure" for Cryptic to base a ban on. 2. Physical location/address, anyone buying anything on Ebay that isn't a HAMSTER gets the physical address of the seller.... 3. Age/gender Did you join the game with your actual gender/age? Prove I did/didn't...prove the new owner isn't other than what I claimed from day one...I could be 7yr old or 93, I could be female (I'm male, but then I could be lying), I could be a hermorphrodite , I am what I claimed I am when I signed up..that's the nature of the internet. 4.Credit card info? Debit card info? That too, can either change or morph over time. After you set up a account do you EVER have to prove or use it again? It's a F2P you don't. 5.Arc/steam account? Those are sold every day, they also have the same problem with people actually being who they say they are. If you are so fed up with game that you are willing to sell your account, I bet you wouldn't give it a second thought to sell the steam/arc account as well, you can set up another account within minutes.
I can say with authority that I am me, that my card info changed at least once as well as my email (but then I could be lying, I'm not, but then how would you know?). They never sent someone to my house when I signed up, to check anything about me, with the exception of my email/card/ISP they know NOTHING about me, all of those are changeable over time.
Do they have account/ID questions? no Do they have a second ID source like a DMV or SS#? no
Due to the nature of the internet, I'm who I say I am, and it's real easy to "prove" I'm me in light of just how little Cryptic asks for when you sign up, there is next to nothing for them to cross check.
Lol, and it would be so simple to prove you are the original account holder. What do you give that cryptic actually knows when you set up an account? 1. Email, when selling the account via ebay or whatever they communicate with their email, the guy buying the account has your email, shortly after buying your account he changes the email to his, that's the new email associated with the account, people change their emails all the time. that's nothing "secure" for Cryptic to base a ban on. 2. Physical location/address, anyone buying anything on Ebay that isn't a HAMSTER gets the physical address of the seller.... 3. Age/gender Did you join the game with your actual gender/age? Prove I did/didn't...prove the new owner isn't other than what I claimed from day one...I could be 7yr old or 93, I could be female (I'm male, but then I could be lying), I could be a hermorphrodite , I am what I claimed I am when I signed up..that's the nature of the internet. 4.Credit card info? Debit card info? That too, can either change or morph over time. After you set up a account do you EVER have to prove or use it again? It's a F2P you don't. 5.Arc/steam account? Those are sold every day, they also have the same problem with people actually being who they say they are. If you are so fed up with game that you are willing to sell your account, I bet you wouldn't give it a second thought to sell the steam/arc account as well, you can set up another account within minutes.
I can say with authority that I am me, that my card info changed at least once as well as my email (but then I could be lying, I'm not, but then how would you know?). They never sent someone to my house when I signed up, to check anything about me, with the exception of my email/card/ISP they know NOTHING about me, all of those are changeable over time.
Do they have account/ID questions? no Do they have a second ID source like a DMV or SS#? no
It doesn't matter that they change. Basically what it comes down to is that they need cooperation from the person they bought their account from. Once they've got their money they don't really give a ****. You're not going to get them to provide the old credit card info or respond to emails.
The main reason why people get away with it is that most of the time accounts don't get investigated at all. It's not automated and they have to have someone actually check the account.
And there you go..and one other thing as well Incentive, what's in it for Cryptic... Is the new "me" doing something not in Cryptic's interest? That would be the only reason Cryptic would get off it's collective HAMSTER to possible ban them....the new "me" might actually be to their liking, if they had the dough to buy the account they have some spending money, maybe they being "new" to the game they might be more likely to spend money on poo I have zero interest in paying for.
And there you go..and one other thing as well Incentive, what's in it for Cryptic... Is the new "me" doing something not in Cryptic's interest? That would be the only reason Cryptic would get off it's collective HAMSTER to possible ban them....the new "me" might actually be to their liking, if they had the dough to buy the account they have some spending money, maybe they being "new" to the game they might be more likely to spend money on poo I have zero interest in paying for.
Cryptic isn't involved in that. It's PWE that handles accounts and bans. And they really don't like accounts being sold for whatever reason. It's harder to get someone banned for hacking even.
Well, here is my idea: Since every donation is on file/log, when a member is kicked from a guild he could get refunded in Stronghold Vouchers, and the leader/other guild members have a certain amount of time to replace those resources.
If they do, the guild can carry on without the former member... and the former member can tribute his resources to another guild again.
If they do not replenish the loss, the Stronghold starts to "crumble" and benefits will get revoked until the loss is being paid.
Problem solved.
Players could donate as much as they want too, and if something happens, they also know that that donation is not completely lost for them.
And the Devs might want to work something up, or people will stop spending money on Strongholds one way or the other...
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
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ryoshinetteMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 488Arc User
This won't happen. None of above suggestions will be implemented. Nothing will be done with this problem. Trust me.
Probably worth pointing out that we've only got one side of the story here and that some of the stuff being said is pure conjecture. Having said that, this wouldn't be the first guild to self-destruct in an MMO. Leaders can get bored or power-crazed and, yes, all guilds are a dictatorship even if some are benign.
And, seriously, who spends $250 on stuff for a guild they don't "own"???? Unless you are good friends with the leadership in RL that's kinda crazy imo. Actually, even if you ARE good friends in RL it's still a bit crazy.
If the guild leader has sold the account/guild or been hacked then that requires some CS attention. If he has just elected to kick folk then it's WAI, even if it leaves a sour taste.
the moral is don't donate more than you are comfortable losing.
And this is the wisest thing. Guilds can always be ruined by 1 person and this is not going to change, because all MMOs have this problem and all possible solutions proved to be exploitable as well
Support has the power to help you if guild leader account was hacked/changed ownership (which is against ToS) or made a clear scam attempt. If they do so - its up to them. Remember that people working there are also human beings and guild dramas are going to be new for them as much as for you - they have to learn how to cope with them and this is a very ungrateful task (fake accusation because of drama anyone?). If no ToS violation occured support has no power to interact. The reason is here:
Why not? The guild leader in the OP clearly was abusing his position at the expense of a lot of people. IMO something like the OP describes should be a banworthy offense.
All it took was a sad story that took 10 minutes to write to make you (and most other people) feel sorry for the OP and rised your hostility towards his former guild leader which you dont even know - and you would probably ban him right now if you could. This is wrong - if you feel a need to get involved in any kind of drama (which I would avoid if I were you) you have to remember not to make any judgement after listening to 1 side of argument only. People always try to act like victims and talk like:"I dont know why is he doing this to me, must be some kind of psycho". Guess what - if you talk to other side of argument it would probably tell you the same! And the truth lies somewhere in the middle - and it can get extremely hard to tell what really happened and who is to blame - usually both sides did something wrong. This could have been error OP former guild leader could make - imagine OP and his friends conflicted with 3rd person (lets call it "Maria") for whatever reason, Maria talks to GL and says moreover the same OP tells us, the GL trusts her, because he likes her and unleashes a righteous wrath on the OP and his fellows! Dont get me wrong - I dont know OP and I feel sorry he had problems with his GL - I just used him as an example why support doesnt get involved in guild dramas and why posting dramas is usually forbidden to spread - if its not some outside reason (hacked/sold account for example) they always have some secrets and bring more trouble to outsiders, than they should.
Anyway, good luck and hope you will solve your problem.
For most people you could probably say this, but I used to be a rather frequent poster here, and many of the older users can assure you that I can be trusted, I would never make something like this up.
darthpotaterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,261Arc User
The only thing that "can" work is somehow quantify how much a character has contributed, and if he is kicked (not if he goes by his own), the Guild SH can be affected losing currency or even level of structures.
This way, if a leader kicks everyone, the stronhold can lose lots of structures / boons / everything.
ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
This is definitely an issue that should be discussed openly, but please avoid any specific "naming and shaming".
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited October 2015
That being said, this is actually one of my worst (if not THE worst) fear I have as a leader of a large guild. If my account was compromised, or I lost control of it...one jerk could destroy in minutes the hard work of hundreds of people and countless resources. I would love to see some sort of "secondary" check in place to help prevent mass booting and looting for a guild.
How about a system where you can set a guild permission for ranks that can only be promoted to it or demoted from it if a vote passes from the other members of that rank (or higher) with a simple majority. You then make it so if this option is changed by anyone, it has to pass another vote to change the privilege.
It's not perfect, but it would be a heck of a lot harder for things like this to happen, or happen very quickly.
But I agree with the points made in general here...ultimately the guild leader has WAY too much power with no safeguards right now.
Too many posts, most of them too long to read, but to OP - There is relatively simple solution for the problem. Player participation for guild progress could be tied to player. E.g. I contribute X resources to guild progress, if I leave guild and move to new one, old guild should loose that amount of resources (even if it has built buildings already) and they should go into my new guild (or returned to me in form of vouchers)
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
So then what happens if a player joins the guild, donates some resources then stops playing Neverwinter? Do I have to keep their body preserved in the guild forever, for fear that if I boot them to make room for an active player, all their resources disappear?
"Meanwhile in the moderator's lounge..."
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
edited October 2015
Sorry for my bad english. But i hope you all can figure out what i try to say.
Simple solution is : Implementing vote kick system to kicking members /to demote members/ to disband guild /to destroy buildings. When enugh player accept it (insert number) you can kick somone or demote disband guild destroy building ..
This way ppl can report the hacker (leader with mental issue)before he even can do harm to the guild... Reclaim the guild leadership isnt a problem so even he leave the guild this isnt really an issue at all.
drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
We have a lot of founders and guild leaders in CA... A LOT... so no one person can dissolve anything. We in fact seem to have quite a few checks and balances in place to keep this kind of <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> from happening. There are way to implement these tools into an existing guild... to insure a deeper feeling of security.
If any of you feel that you can no longer trust anyone... there are trustworthy people out in NW. There are Guilds with scruples and who will only look for an effort towards making the guild stronger... and not ask for a kick-back for being in the guild or considering an application. They may be smaller guilds... but with new blood comes new abilities and new possibilities.
I saw this all pan out in Legit... last night... that some players would stoop to this level makes me sick. I am sorry for the drama @katamaster81899 deeply sorry for your loss.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
Oh, please. No guild leader in their right mind would kick someone that spent $250 on stronghold packs to contribute to the SH. That's like shooting youself in the foot.
Why not? If somebody cant behave and spoils fun of people in guild - and refuses to improve his behavior - I find it ok to remove him, even if he built a level 1-20 GH by himself (I know, it usually takes "a bit" less than 190 days to notice somebody shouldnt be a member of your guild :P ) - I prefer to run with elemental stuff and have fun than with stronghold one and be annoyed in my free time.
Kicking 20+ is a clear sign that something is wrong on his end. Furthermore your example is just as bad as OP's. Kicking a large part of your guild on word of mouth is ridiculous. These things generally are as simple as they seem when something extreme happens.
I used overexaggerated example to show what I meant. Im not talking about details what happened in OPs situation, because of reason I mentioned - all I have are his words. And I dont even want to judge it - its not my business, I used hypothetical example what could have happened to show what I meant, even though I dont think it actually did. Just saying that, in general, support and people that arent directly involved in conflict do not/should not have power to solve it - unless a ToS rule has been brightly broken.
And it's not that posting drama is prohibited. Naming and shaming is prohibited. OP didn't do that.
I said usually as for "in most mmo games forums", not on this one. Its not prohibited here... yet - because its new. Maybe Im wrong, but I think after a couple of posted dramas, when people in power realize where it leads when you let them run - they will be terminated here quickly as well - time will tell.
I am just going to defend @katamaster81899 here and say that at one stage, he/she was one of the legit officers before he/she stepped down from the role and he/she is a very calm, cool and collected person who I do not see behaving like the type of low life you are describing. Whilst the guild I am in has not had similar problems (and nor do I expect it to, with @kreatyve as guild leader) I do see how this can be an issue for a lot of people in other guilds and I do sympathize with people who lose their time and investment due to a scenario listed above. At the end of the day, the issue with strongholds is that your progress is tied not to your character, but to your guild and that progress can be taken away at any stage by the leaders of the guild. This is a huge problem because it technically means the guild leaders can steal from you, you put in effort and trust that they are going to be responsible with the effort that you put in, but if they aren't, you completely scammed over.
At the end of the day, the suggestion I propose is that if you are kicked out of a guild or leave it, you gain compensation equal to the amount you invested into it, which is then lost to the guild. So if you contributed enough to take a guild structure from rank 1-10, then a random structure or a few structures delevel by exactly the amount you invested into them. This restricts out of control action from either bots who take over a guild or players who have purchased a guild, because destroying the guild and its leadership will ultimately also destroy the guilds progress. It makes power in the guild go 2 ways, the leadership can set the rules and enforce them, but the players always have what they invested as a backup or fail safe. It ties their investment to themselves, rather then to the guild they are investing in. I think this is the best way to deal with the problem as it doesn't introduce needlessly complex systems to check whether or not the person who is the guild leader actually is the person who was the guild leader and is not a new person in charge.
Yes, this does potentially introduce a system whereby players who have contributed a lot can "try" to blackmail the guild leader into promoting them for donating a lot, but honestly, if a guild has someone like that who has contributed a lot and threatens to leave and take their work with them, its probably better if they pack their bags and go anyhow.
And what if players are inactive? you might ask. Well, a suggestion would be that if someone has been inactive for more then 30 days in a guild, they no longer count as a "body" within the guild and they get subtracted from the total number of active accounts. So their contribution is still there and so is their body, but they aren't actually counting towards the limit of players in the guild. Also, if they come back online and they push the guild over its limit, they are given a week in which to sort things out before the game auto kicks them from the guild. This allows them and the guild leader to be able to work something out.
Finally, the game needs a microtransaction to increase the number of players in a guild. So instead of only being allowed x number of accounts, you can buy y more guild account slots so you can have x+y people in the guild in total.
Guildies "taking away" their contributions when they leave a guild is a non-starter for me. It would just lead to griefing and blackmail. A donation is a donation, not a loan. I guess there could be scope to credit a kicked member with some compensation vouchers, not to the full value of their donations but something to soften the blow. You'd need a safeguard against someone repeatedly getting kicked and rejoining to boost the vouchers though. The guild who kicks them should lose nothing. Anyone leaving a guild voluntarily gets nothing.
As for those guilds who have multiple leaders as protection against abuse/account theft. Wouldn't the bad guy/gal just demote or kick all the other leaders?
I'm not sure it's a problem that really needs solving. A guild stands and falls together, just like an empire. And just like an empire, a new one will rise from the ashes. It's part of the game.
Lots of responses from pessimists who are feeling sad for the OP, but also feeling smug that our gloomy predictions have come true. Sorry, OP.
Not only is this single point of failure part of the Stronghold design, but the design was copied from Star Trek Online fleets. These leadership issues presumably happened in that game, and the developers don't consider it a problem.
Big guilds have problem with some not donating leechers. I think that leader should have way to solo kick those who donated under 100k of some resources but kicking person who donated 100k+ would demand agreement from officers like rank5+ via vote kicking.
I'm sure we'll hear stories of.......once a Stronghold is comepletly built that the Guild leader kicks out everyone so he alone enjoys the benefits of the Stronghold without the hassles of running a guild.
This is what happens when you let completely inexperienced folks drive design decisions.
Doesn't really matter much as the player base is in a freefall decline now.... again due to the inexperienced and incompetent managers they have running the show.
Comments
So I used to buy Zen with a Amex card #1234-5678-9102-3456 ISS # 1234 a card registered to BofA, now I buy Zen with a Discover card #9876-5432-1098-7654 ISS #333 a card registered to wells fargo of florida..is it me or someone else? Did I move to florida and change my card/address? Or am I someone that the previous "me" sold and account to? Did I buy Zen then, but not now, because now I'm on a fixed income and I moved to florida to retire in the heat?
How does Cryptic KNOW I'm "me" and not some other "me" that bought my account? It's EXTREMELY hard to do so, that's why they very rarely if ever ban accounts because of that, is the new "me" a bigger spender than the old "me"? Maybe they don't want to risk the greater revenue flow from the new "me" from offending the new "me" questioning "me" if I'm really "me" or some other "me".
Barring some outside confirmation/evidence it's hard to prove an account has been sold, I would have to post my account for sale somewhere were they actually monitored, then trace the sale say via EBay to the purchaser, then them actually logging on and making account changes.
This is all of course presumptive that they actually want to "catch" the new "me" and ban "me". Maybe the new "me" having the cash in RL to buy the account, is a big spender and they like the new "me" better than the formerly tight fisted old "me"
They put your account on hold and you have to prove that you're the original account holder. I've reported multiple people for this in Blacklight that have been banned. It's really nowhere near as hard as you're making it out to be and actually one of the easiest ways for someone to catch a ban.
You'd actually be surprised how much community outcry can effect change. Heck in Blacklight we managed to get them to redo the entire shooting system by complaining for a month.
1. Email, when selling the account via ebay or whatever they communicate with their email, the guy buying the account has your email, shortly after buying your account he changes the email to his, that's the new email associated with the account, people change their emails all the time. that's nothing "secure" for Cryptic to base a ban on.
2. Physical location/address, anyone buying anything on Ebay that isn't a HAMSTER gets the physical address of the seller....
3. Age/gender Did you join the game with your actual gender/age? Prove I did/didn't...prove the new owner isn't other than what I claimed from day one...I could be 7yr old or 93, I could be female (I'm male, but then I could be lying), I could be a hermorphrodite , I am what I claimed I am when I signed up..that's the nature of the internet.
4.Credit card info? Debit card info? That too, can either change or morph over time. After you set up a account do you EVER have to prove or use it again? It's a F2P you don't.
5.Arc/steam account? Those are sold every day, they also have the same problem with people actually being who they say they are. If you are so fed up with game that you are willing to sell your account, I bet you wouldn't give it a second thought to sell the steam/arc account as well, you can set up another account within minutes.
I can say with authority that I am me, that my card info changed at least once as well as my email (but then I could be lying, I'm not, but then how would you know?). They never sent someone to my house when I signed up, to check anything about me, with the exception of my email/card/ISP they know NOTHING about me, all of those are changeable over time.
Do they have account/ID questions? no
Do they have a second ID source like a DMV or SS#? no
Due to the nature of the internet, I'm who I say I am, and it's real easy to "prove" I'm me in light of just how little Cryptic asks for when you sign up, there is next to nothing for them to cross check.
The main reason why people get away with it is that most of the time accounts don't get investigated at all. It's not automated and they have to have someone actually check the account.
Incentive, what's in it for Cryptic...
Is the new "me" doing something not in Cryptic's interest? That would be the only reason Cryptic would get off it's collective HAMSTER to possible ban them....the new "me" might actually be to their liking, if they had the dough to buy the account they have some spending money, maybe they being "new" to the game they might be more likely to spend money on poo I have zero interest in paying for.
Since every donation is on file/log, when a member is kicked from a guild he could get refunded in Stronghold Vouchers, and the leader/other guild members have a certain amount of time to replace those resources.
If they do, the guild can carry on without the former member... and the former member can tribute his resources to another guild again.
If they do not replenish the loss, the Stronghold starts to "crumble" and benefits will get revoked until the loss is being paid.
Problem solved.
Players could donate as much as they want too, and if something happens, they also know that that donation is not completely lost for them.
And the Devs might want to work something up, or people will stop spending money on Strongholds one way or the other...
None of above suggestions will be implemented.
Nothing will be done with this problem. Trust me.
.Suicide Squad.
And, seriously, who spends $250 on stuff for a guild they don't "own"???? Unless you are good friends with the leadership in RL that's kinda crazy imo. Actually, even if you ARE good friends in RL it's still a bit crazy.
If the guild leader has sold the account/guild or been hacked then that requires some CS attention. If he has just elected to kick folk then it's WAI, even if it leaves a sour taste.
For most people you could probably say this, but I used to be a rather frequent poster here, and many of the older users can assure you that I can be trusted, I would never make something like this up.
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This way, if a leader kicks everyone, the stronhold can lose lots of structures / boons / everything.
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How about a system where you can set a guild permission for ranks that can only be promoted to it or demoted from it if a vote passes from the other members of that rank (or higher) with a simple majority. You then make it so if this option is changed by anyone, it has to pass another vote to change the privilege.
It's not perfect, but it would be a heck of a lot harder for things like this to happen, or happen very quickly.
But I agree with the points made in general here...ultimately the guild leader has WAY too much power with no safeguards right now.
But i hope you all can figure out what i try to say.
Simple solution is :
Implementing vote kick system to kicking members /to demote members/ to disband guild /to destroy buildings.
When enugh player accept it (insert number) you can kick somone or demote disband guild destroy building ..
This way ppl can report the hacker (leader with mental issue)before he even can do harm to the guild...
Reclaim the guild leadership isnt a problem so even he leave the guild this isnt really an issue at all.
If any of you feel that you can no longer trust anyone... there are trustworthy people out in NW. There are Guilds with scruples and who will only look for an effort towards making the guild stronger... and not ask for a kick-back for being in the guild or considering an application. They may be smaller guilds... but with new blood comes new abilities and new possibilities.
I saw this all pan out in Legit... last night... that some players would stoop to this level makes me sick. I am sorry for the drama @katamaster81899 deeply sorry for your loss.
At the end of the day, the suggestion I propose is that if you are kicked out of a guild or leave it, you gain compensation equal to the amount you invested into it, which is then lost to the guild. So if you contributed enough to take a guild structure from rank 1-10, then a random structure or a few structures delevel by exactly the amount you invested into them. This restricts out of control action from either bots who take over a guild or players who have purchased a guild, because destroying the guild and its leadership will ultimately also destroy the guilds progress. It makes power in the guild go 2 ways, the leadership can set the rules and enforce them, but the players always have what they invested as a backup or fail safe. It ties their investment to themselves, rather then to the guild they are investing in. I think this is the best way to deal with the problem as it doesn't introduce needlessly complex systems to check whether or not the person who is the guild leader actually is the person who was the guild leader and is not a new person in charge.
Yes, this does potentially introduce a system whereby players who have contributed a lot can "try" to blackmail the guild leader into promoting them for donating a lot, but honestly, if a guild has someone like that who has contributed a lot and threatens to leave and take their work with them, its probably better if they pack their bags and go anyhow.
And what if players are inactive? you might ask. Well, a suggestion would be that if someone has been inactive for more then 30 days in a guild, they no longer count as a "body" within the guild and they get subtracted from the total number of active accounts. So their contribution is still there and so is their body, but they aren't actually counting towards the limit of players in the guild. Also, if they come back online and they push the guild over its limit, they are given a week in which to sort things out before the game auto kicks them from the guild. This allows them and the guild leader to be able to work something out.
Finally, the game needs a microtransaction to increase the number of players in a guild. So instead of only being allowed x number of accounts, you can buy y more guild account slots so you can have x+y people in the guild in total.
As for those guilds who have multiple leaders as protection against abuse/account theft. Wouldn't the bad guy/gal just demote or kick all the other leaders?
I'm not sure it's a problem that really needs solving. A guild stands and falls together, just like an empire. And just like an empire, a new one will rise from the ashes. It's part of the game.
Not only is this single point of failure part of the Stronghold design, but the design was copied from Star Trek Online fleets. These leadership issues presumably happened in that game, and the developers don't consider it a problem.
Its not perfect, but it would at least be a step in the right direction.
I'm sure we'll hear stories of.......once a Stronghold is comepletly built that the Guild leader kicks out everyone so he alone enjoys the benefits of the Stronghold without the hassles of running a guild.
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Doesn't really matter much as the player base is in a freefall decline now.... again due to the inexperienced and incompetent managers they have running the show.