People keep saying that it was abused and exploited... after it was removed from the gateway how exactly is spending hundreds of hours and paying money to add character slots..spending money to invest in adventures and hero's an exploit.. if these people that did this by hand spent the same amount of time in game playing as they did Lvling toons for months to get to lvl 25 leadership they would have made millions of ad...if you have the time and the patience to do so.. you should reap the benefits.... it is complete bull that it was pulled out from people who legitimately spent the 1000s of hours to lvl multiple toons to lvl 25 leadership without giving those players something in return... anyone who cries about it were just to lazy to do it themselves or felt it wasn't how the game should be played....The tos never stated that it was an exploit. Even the community mods did it... not to mention it wasn't like people were making so much that they were getting bis gear in days... it still took months to lvl the toons and months to recoup the losses and months to get enough ad to bis out a toon.. not to mentions the 1000s of hours it takes to do it by hand... not sure how that is ripping off anyone..yeah sure those players Will have more time to play the game..but the whole point was to spend the time doing leadership so you didn't have to grind...and could actually spend your time ENJOYING the game..I know so many players that did nothing but pvp including myself who still spent 1000s of dollars every year on the game, but also had leader armies to substitute the lack of income from not running dungeons like all the pve players... I'm out..mic drop
Because bots can log into the game and bot in game as well. It was a good choice and they are lowering the prices of other stuff to compensate. Stop complaining, get with the program. It is a good change and necessary.
I think bottom line is it was botable. I too am disappointed about it, but we just have to keep moving on. Some signs that devs are looking to the right direction today. Let's just hope they do something to make LS and other professions useful again.
"As the good archmage often admonishes me, I ought not to let my mind wander, as it's too small to go off by itself." -Danilo Thann[/quote]
I'm not sure if anyone's suggested this. But has anyone considered the possibility of making gold more important to the economy to make up for the loss of ways to earn AD?
As it stands, gold is practically useless at higher levels. Except for unslotting enchants and buying profession supplies, I haven't used it at all for several months on any of my characters. Strongholds gave some purpose for it, but currently it's still the single most useless piece of currency in the game. However, you still get it all the time through gameplay.
So, my suggestion: the various things you need to use AD for now - marks of potency, upgrading mounts and companions, maybe even campaign progress, etc - change them to being worth gold instead. That way, you don't have to choose between running dungeons, skirmishes, and PvP over and over and over or progressing your character along the campaigns. At least, not nearly so much. The developers could set the prices so that it still takes time to earn the gold you need. And the players would get rewarded for doing gameplay - no matter what form of gameplay they happen to enjoy. You could keep some things still requiring AD, to keep the currency from becoming meaningless.
Just a suggestion.
I think people have but it STO energy credits are used on the exchange instead of dillithium and you can pretty much buy anything from the online store off the STO exchange. Energy credits are the same thing to STO that gold is to Neverwinter. Dillithium is to Star trek online that Astral Diamonds are to Neverwinter.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
If players can't afford to buy them, then sellers will eventually remove their items from the AH and set them to lower rates.
It is true that there's not a whole lot of incentive for sellers to do so rapidly, unless you're a quick money trader type (like myself) who places too high of an emphasis on the time value of money, though.
While other MMOs do a lot to help new players to catch up to vet. players, it looks like they're doing the opposite here.
I'm not saying that everything has to be presented for free... but the Devs should come up with more resources for rAD a bit faster. They had no problem with removing rAD within a week from Leadership, they should also have no problem with adding rAD to for example campaign/story quests within the same timeframe.
It would also help to add Stronghold Vouchers to Leadership into the former rAD slots. That would even help casual or solo players to make some AD through the AH again.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
That's one of the core issues with the game, yes.
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coolgeek357Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 91Arc User
Because bots can log into the game and bot in game as well. It was a good choice and they are lowering the prices of other stuff to compensate. Stop complaining, get with the program. It is a good change and necessary.
It is not a good change, a good change would be stopping the bots. What does it matter to me if they lower the price when I don't have AD. They have just taken over two years of game play and progress and flushed it down the toilet. They have not replaced the Leadership income with something those using it to make AD can use. Some of us don't want to do Skirmishes or PVP. I am working on leveling characters. This produces no AD which is need to advance characters so how is this a good change.
I just did a pvp match and with vip bonus to ad gain I got 234ad from winning and leading the board in the 60-69 tier... is that normal? I thought we were suppose to be rewarded for doing pvp?
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coolgeek357Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 91Arc User
In the article Cryptic called AD their "time currency". The thing is their description sounded like they were describing...GOLD! If you want to fix things start rewarding AD were gold is rewarded or better yet do away with AD altogether and make gold the "time currency" that it already is. I never understood the need for Zen, AD, Trade Bars and Gold in one game. Cryptic if you want to make some money offer some cool equipment skins and do away with the cost in AD for the re-skin of equipment.
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darkstarcrashMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,382Arc User
It is true prices are coming down on a lot of the stuff, but since there is really no way to make any decent ammount of AD anymore stuff just sits there because the vast majority of players can't afford to buy them. For example, it takes 4 hours to Invoke 3000 AD. It takes 2 hours to make the 7000 Cryptic claims you can make in dungeons. Since they are not mutually time compatable it would take perhaps 6 hours to make the 10000 AD.
Come on, hyperbole much? Invoking takes seconds, a few minutes total if you have fewer than 20 characters -- no one just invokes for 4 hours and then runs dungeons. And you only have to invoke over 2 1/2 hours for AD; the last invoke just gives you a second coin.
And running 2 normal 3-man ToS dungeons -- the queue pops within seconds -- will net you more than 6k AD in about 20 minutes maximum. If you can quickly get into a eLoL group, you will also get at least 3k from salvage, plus at least 1500 bonus AD.
I just noticed the AD out of the Leadership quests. If they do not reverse it, I WILL STOP PLAYING! I am glad I did not buy any VIP time since they are ruining the game for me. Very sllim pickings in PC stand alone games, and they are ruining the internet ones. Guess I will go back to 90s and play AD&D with paper and pen, writing my own programs to dot he book keeping...
I just noticed the AD out of the Leadership quests. If they do not reverse it, I WILL STOP PLAYING! I am glad I did not buy any VIP time since they are ruining the game for me. Very sllim pickings in PC stand alone games, and they are ruining the internet ones. Guess I will go back to 90s and play AD&D with paper and pen, writing my own programs to dot he book keeping...
I stopped playing and hoarding my AD. Just lurking the forums, watching the zen exchange rate, and artifact prices in AH through the gateway. I will play any new content whenever it comes out just to try it out.
It is true prices are coming down on a lot of the stuff, but since there is really no way to make any decent ammount of AD anymore stuff just sits there because the vast majority of players can't afford to buy them. For example, it takes 4 hours to Invoke 3000 AD. It takes 2 hours to make the 7000 Cryptic claims you can make in dungeons. Since they are not mutually time compatable it would take perhaps 6 hours to make the 10000 AD. In reality how many players can afford time wise to do that? The small minority of players who fund their characters with real money Zen purchases will continue to do so, the players who never buy Zen will, in all likelyhood, quit playing since they will never be able to afford to upgrade anything past Rank 7. Perhaps a significent ammount of players in the middle will quit also because they can't afford to upgrade either. Cryptic, I believe that unless you seriously figure a way for players to accumulate AD in a timely and efficient manner you have effectvely killed Neverwinter. Please, if anyone has any time efficient ways to get AD ingame let me know, I have multiple things ready to upgrade and I cannot afford to do so.
It does not take two hours to run those dungeons. 3 man dungeons take something like 10 minutes to run.
"Because bots can log into the game and bot in game as well. It was a good choice and they are lowering the prices of other stuff to compensate. Stop complaining, get with the program. It is a good change and necessary."
So take care of the bots, don't kick you entire player base in the face.
AS was stated above, leadership was available to everyone, and if you didn't use it you were an idiot. There was no reason that you couldn't have your leadership running while you farmed that dungeon for the 8000th time. if you didn't take advantage of all the options in the game, that is your fault, and has no bearing on the people who were better at the game than you, or simply played it differently than you do.
Leadership was working as intended, and was a very useful tool for those that can't spend 10hrs a day in the game. The fact that some figured out a way to exploit it is no reason to remove it. You just institute rules that make exploitation harder.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
We will be watching what these AD changes do to the average player's holdings. Based off of that data we will be re-evaluating all of our AD pricing in the game.
Not we may. Not we might. We WILL. Promissory. All AD prices will be re-evaluated and are likely to change but this will be done strategically and not all at once.
We will be watching what these AD changes do to the average player's holdings. Based off of that data we will be re-evaluating all of our AD pricing in the game.
Not we may. Not we might. We WILL. Promissory. All AD prices will be re-evaluated and are likely to change but this will be done strategically and not all at once.
Without any timeframe added to this statement, it might be next week or next year. If they have something concrete in mind, perhaps they could share it with the players?
Wow. Not sure what other word can possibly express my feelings on this. And to avoid any misconceptions, that is not a good "wow"... I am a solo player, and ours is a small guild. I do not PvP, have only participated in one or two skirmishes, and only do the rare dungeon. I used to play the leadership game (I have 3 characters, by the way, not 10), only so that I would have something under the AD section, but I don't think I ever had above 30K AD at any given time. Most of my time is as a solo player, although sometimes I do team up with a friend. So answer me this: What happens to the following areas?
Strongholds. We need HOW MUCH to upgrade, well... anything?!
Other Professions. As a Mailsmith (and working on Weaponsmithing), I am seeing a lot more things I can craft, but only if I have the AD...
Campaign stuff. Take a look at the Sharandar campaign window. Upper left side. Need AD just to get any of those.
And of course, the list goes on and on. I know, I am simply another tiny voice which will likely be ignored, but still. Let's take away the only accepted form of currency in the game, save for a few instances for a handful of people, and not adjust anything to compensate for it. The only thing I spend coin (gold, silver, etc.) in game is on, is when I need to move enchants on my gear. Your economy is broken. Always has been, but now you have truly gone and destroyed it in such a way as to not only alienate the very players you depend on, but perhaps you have not considered the whole review process...? I have already seen people leave the game. And many more will. And pretty soon, through online reviews, word of mouth, etc. people will be warning the masses to stay away from the game. Unless something changes, something improves, and in a drastic way quickly, I fear that this game, a game I have come to really enjoy, despite only being a part of it for a couple of months so far, is going to die. And nothing will be able to resurrect it once that happens. A lot of people have been critical of this as a bad business decision. It is a bad decision all the way around. Ethically, financially, business-wise, morally...
But, it is their game. If they want to set the sails alight, and watch the ship burn around them, with no port in sight, can we really stop them...?
Because bots can log into the game and bot in game as well. It was a good choice and they are lowering the prices of other stuff to compensate. Stop complaining, get with the program. It is a good change and necessary.
Just because a person figures out how to bot something doesn't mean you remove it...It means you figure out how to remove the botter not the piece of the game botted..
It should be possible, with grinding, to get enough for 1 SMOP perday.
Add more RAD to each dungeon, Skirmish, and PvP T2 Dungeons get 10,000 first run, 7,500 second run, and 5,000 each run after (no cap) T1 Dungeons get 6,000 first run, 4,500 second run, and 3,000 each run after (no cap) Non Epic Dungeons get 4,000 first run, 3,000 second run, and 2,000 each run after (no cap) Skirmishes get 4,000 first run, 3,000 second run, and 2,000 each run after (no cap) PvP get's 6,000 first run, 4,500 second run, and 3,000 each run after (no cap) (The numbers can be adjusted, but this is just an example)
Add RAD to each mission Each mission earns you 500 (no cap)
Add RAD to every HE Epic HE gets you 1,000 each run Major HE gets you 500 each run Minor HE gets you 250 each run
This will allow you to actually earn AD through playing the game. If you have one weekend to play, and have a life during the week, you can spend all day playing and make 200k RAD, or w/e. You can then refine that over two days. This will actually make the game worthwhile to play.
Now, you cater to the group player, as well as the solo or small group player. This allows you to gain AD while leveling, as well as doing daily missions at level 70.
You could, for example:
Run one T2 Dungeon - 10,000 AD Run one Skirmish - 4,000 AD Run one zone of missions (Dread for example) - 1,500 Do three missions in SH's - 1,500 AD Run 3 minor HE's - 1,5000 AD TOTALING: 18,500 AD from actual play.
Another example, for the grinder: Run 10 T2 Dungeons - 57,500 AD
So now that AD had been pulled from leadership task rewards, I'm doing a bit of math and comparisons.
Without AD in, now some tasks would be silly to take. Is there an official time table or a word to be had on how they plan to retool and re-balance the task rewards?
I mean a 4/hr task @L23 has greater rewards than a L25 1/d task does without AD. To be balanced you would need 6x the green coffers for the 1/d task the 4/hr one rewards (and you would still be behind in xp). The 1/d task either needs a new purple coffer or that 6x to balance it.
This is just the most blatant example there are many others.
Oh, and while on the subject, why do max tasks still give professions XP? A L25 profession task isn't going to get you to L26 any time soon . Shouldn't the profession xp @ max level be converted to some other reward like maybe gold or regular XP? At least until the skill cap goes up to L30!
awaiting a official retooling or at least a time table announcement with baited breath, thanx
People keep saying that it was abused and exploited... after it was removed from the gateway how exactly is spending hundreds of hours and paying money to add character slots..spending money to invest in adventures and hero's an exploit.. if these people that did this by hand spent the same amount of time in game playing as they did Lvling toons for months to get to lvl 25 leadership they would have made millions of ad...if you have the time and the patience to do so.. you should reap the benefits.... it is complete bull that it was pulled out from people who legitimately spent the 1000s of hours to lvl multiple toons to lvl 25 leadership without giving those players something in return... anyone who cries about it were just to lazy to do it themselves or felt it wasn't how the game should be played....The tos never stated that it was an exploit. Even the community mods did it... not to mention it wasn't like people were making so much that they were getting bis gear in days... it still took months to lvl the toons and months to recoup the losses and months to get enough ad to bis out a toon.. not to mentions the 1000s of hours it takes to do it by hand... not sure how that is ripping off anyone..yeah sure those players Will have more time to play the game..but the whole point was to spend the time doing leadership so you didn't have to grind...and could actually spend your time ENJOYING the game..I know so many players that did nothing but pvp including myself who still spent 1000s of dollars every year on the game, but also had leader armies to substitute the lack of income from not running dungeons like all the pve players... I'm out..mic drop
Comments
It is true that there's not a whole lot of incentive for sellers to do so rapidly, unless you're a quick money trader type (like myself) who places too high of an emphasis on the time value of money, though.
I'm not saying that everything has to be presented for free... but the Devs should come up with more resources for rAD a bit faster.
They had no problem with removing rAD within a week from Leadership, they should also have no problem with adding rAD to for example campaign/story quests within the same timeframe.
It would also help to add Stronghold Vouchers to Leadership into the former rAD slots. That would even help casual or solo players to make some AD through the AH again.
And running 2 normal 3-man ToS dungeons -- the queue pops within seconds -- will net you more than 6k AD in about 20 minutes maximum. If you can quickly get into a eLoL group, you will also get at least 3k from salvage, plus at least 1500 bonus AD.
So take care of the bots, don't kick you entire player base in the face.
AS was stated above, leadership was available to everyone, and if you didn't use it you were an idiot. There was no reason that you couldn't have your leadership running while you farmed that dungeon for the 8000th time. if you didn't take advantage of all the options in the game, that is your fault, and has no bearing on the people who were better at the game than you, or simply played it differently than you do.
Leadership was working as intended, and was a very useful tool for those that can't spend 10hrs a day in the game. The fact that some figured out a way to exploit it is no reason to remove it. You just institute rules that make exploitation harder.
Strongholds. We need HOW MUCH to upgrade, well... anything?!
Other Professions. As a Mailsmith (and working on Weaponsmithing), I am seeing a lot more things I can craft, but only if I have the AD...
Campaign stuff. Take a look at the Sharandar campaign window. Upper left side. Need AD just to get any of those.
And of course, the list goes on and on. I know, I am simply another tiny voice which will likely be ignored, but still. Let's take away the only accepted form of currency in the game, save for a few instances for a handful of people, and not adjust anything to compensate for it. The only thing I spend coin (gold, silver, etc.) in game is on, is when I need to move enchants on my gear. Your economy is broken. Always has been, but now you have truly gone and destroyed it in such a way as to not only alienate the very players you depend on, but perhaps you have not considered the whole review process...? I have already seen people leave the game. And many more will. And pretty soon, through online reviews, word of mouth, etc. people will be warning the masses to stay away from the game. Unless something changes, something improves, and in a drastic way quickly, I fear that this game, a game I have come to really enjoy, despite only being a part of it for a couple of months so far, is going to die. And nothing will be able to resurrect it once that happens. A lot of people have been critical of this as a bad business decision. It is a bad decision all the way around. Ethically, financially, business-wise, morally...
But, it is their game. If they want to set the sails alight, and watch the ship burn around them, with no port in sight, can we really stop them...?
Because bots can log into the game and bot in game as well. It was a good choice and they are lowering the prices of other stuff to compensate. Stop complaining, get with the program. It is a good change and necessary.
Just because a person figures out how to bot something doesn't mean you remove it...It means you figure out how to remove the botter not the piece of the game botted..
Raise RAD cap to 100k per day
It should be possible, with grinding, to get enough for 1 SMOP perday.
Add more RAD to each dungeon, Skirmish, and PvP
T2 Dungeons get 10,000 first run, 7,500 second run, and 5,000 each run after (no cap)
T1 Dungeons get 6,000 first run, 4,500 second run, and 3,000 each run after (no cap)
Non Epic Dungeons get 4,000 first run, 3,000 second run, and 2,000 each run after (no cap)
Skirmishes get 4,000 first run, 3,000 second run, and 2,000 each run after (no cap)
PvP get's 6,000 first run, 4,500 second run, and 3,000 each run after (no cap)
(The numbers can be adjusted, but this is just an example)
Add RAD to each mission
Each mission earns you 500 (no cap)
Add RAD to every HE
Epic HE gets you 1,000 each run
Major HE gets you 500 each run
Minor HE gets you 250 each run
This will allow you to actually earn AD through playing the game. If you have one weekend to play, and have a life during the week, you can spend all day playing and make 200k RAD, or w/e. You can then refine that over two days. This will actually make the game worthwhile to play.
Now, you cater to the group player, as well as the solo or small group player. This allows you to gain AD while leveling, as well as doing daily missions at level 70.
You could, for example:
Run one T2 Dungeon - 10,000 AD
Run one Skirmish - 4,000 AD
Run one zone of missions (Dread for example) - 1,500
Do three missions in SH's - 1,500 AD
Run 3 minor HE's - 1,5000 AD
TOTALING: 18,500 AD from actual play.
Another example, for the grinder:
Run 10 T2 Dungeons - 57,500 AD
Without AD in, now some tasks would be silly to take. Is there an official time table or a word to be had on how they plan to retool and re-balance the task rewards?
I mean a 4/hr task @L23 has greater rewards than a L25 1/d task does without AD. To be balanced you would need 6x the green coffers for the 1/d task the 4/hr one rewards (and you would still be behind in xp). The 1/d task either needs a new purple coffer or that 6x to balance it.
This is just the most blatant example there are many others.
Oh, and while on the subject, why do max tasks still give professions XP? A L25 profession task isn't going to get you to L26 any time soon
awaiting a official retooling or at least a time table announcement with baited breath, thanx