theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
I actually only broke the 3k iLevel barrier due to double RP Weekend. Four orange artifacts! Waiting to be mythic'd. But, I'm speculating as to the price of GMOPs dropping, so I'm holding off on it.
That, by the way, may be what causes the greatest change in price level on the AH: not actual AD in the hands of players, but rather a willingness of players to spend AD. If everyone expects the price level to go down, then no one will be buying and that will, in turn, cause the price level to go down (as people have wares to sell but no one is buying them and end up lowering their prices to try and move goods).
My point was that disabling the AH doesn't actually stop goldspammers from selling their ill gotten AD to players. It does make it much more difficult for them to get AD by selling enchants, obviously, since they can't just sell stacks of 99 rank 4s left and right. But it's possible to exchange GMOPs in person in exchange for RL cash, even w/o an AH.
I didn't miss anything.
Gold Sellers have (probably) BILLIONS of AD to sell, at their disposal. This has always been the problem. Mainly, 'cos people want to buy from them, instead of Cryptic, as it's cheaper. Disabling the AH, to prevent them from selling that AD effectively cripples them. Sure, they can buy GMoPs and sell them, just like they can sell stacks of R4s, R5s, whatever they want. There's nothing Cryptic can do to stop them.
What they CAN stop, however, is the transfer of AD from Gold Sellers to Players. the AH will change. It won't be gone, but it would be changed. AD will only be useful to the account it's on.
The way it was supposed to be, from the beginning.
Also, I'd like to point out that I've only told you part of the resolution. I didn't tell you the whole thing.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
no no no no, what I mean is, right now, goldsellers transfer AD to players, and get paid in cash.
Disabling the AH causes them to transfer GMOPs or other AD based items to players, and get paid in cash.
So disabling the AH does nothing but, ironically, reduce the cost for the goldspammers, because the 10% cut is no longer factored in.
hmmmmm....... all this talk of AH prices plummeting has me thinking I should be checking prices on the Pirate hats.... maybe that's a little too wistful on my part, but one can dream. I noticed the stage 2 loading splash is back, it was totally skipping that before the patch, just hitting the Cryptic loader and going right to login. Interesting...
If you want robofarming, go play farmville or something.
ARE WE PERFECTLY CLEAR?
Rage against the zeitgeist.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
My point was that disabling the AH doesn't actually stop goldspammers from selling their ill gotten AD to players. It does make it much more difficult for them to get AD by selling enchants, obviously, since they can't just sell stacks of 99 rank 4s left and right. But it's possible to exchange GMOPs in person in exchange for RL cash, even w/o an AH.
I didn't miss anything.
Gold Sellers have (probably) BILLIONS of AD to sell, at their disposal. This has always been the problem. Mainly, 'cos people want to buy from them, instead of Cryptic, as it's cheaper. Disabling the AH, to prevent them from selling that AD effectively cripples them. Sure, they can buy GMoPs and sell them, just like they can sell stacks of R4s, R5s, whatever they want. There's nothing Cryptic can do to stop them.
What they CAN stop, however, is the transfer of AD from Gold Sellers to Players. the AH will change. It won't be gone, but it would be changed. AD will only be useful to the account it's on.
The way it was supposed to be, from the beginning.
Also, I'd like to point out that I've only told you part of the resolution. I didn't tell you the whole thing.
He's referring to the trade function we have as players. The function you normally used to help out a guildie by giving them repair kits or pots during a dungeon run will then be used by goldspammers to transfer GMOPs with RL$ even if they disable AH. There are always going to be a loophole that them spammers can use but the legit players are the ones who will be suffering from these nonsensical changes..
no no no no, what I mean is, right now, goldsellers transfer AD to players, and get paid in cash.
Uh, this is how they were doing it, since the beginning.
Disabling the AH causes them to transfer GMOPs or other AD based items to players, and get paid in cash.
Again, what they've been doing, since the beginning.
So disabling the AH does nothing but, ironically, reduce the cost for the goldspammers, because the 10% cut is no longer factored in.
No, it doesn't. It prevents them from selling AD for a profit. That's their bread and butter. People want the AD for Boons, Strongholds, RP stones, etc. Sure, they can buy GMoP, but people can't trade those for AD. So, if they want them, they want them for upgrading artifacts and enchants, but that's yet another thing that I've not touched on.
Not yet.
Also, keep in mind that Gold Sellers gobble up Zen on the ZAX as quickly as possible. They need it, as well.
Someone mentioned it earlier but people seem to to make this more than it is...it's a pure money grab, nothing less, nothing more. Heck, for all I know PWE gets a kick back from the chat spammers in PE. That would make some sense as this has been an issue since the game came out and they have NEVER made a significant attempt to stop them. PWE wants you to spend your real money to buy zen and then convert it to AD...ON THEIR EXCHANGE. We can all discuss any other point about the game, but the AD nerf was everything about money.
PS: gold as a currency is a joke, in 2 years of game play I have only ever used it to buy injury kits. And now that I was stupid enough to buy 12 months VIP (which is basically worthless now) I don't even need those
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Of course it's about money, they're a private corporation. People need to stop acting like that's a bad thing.
What's a bad thing are decisions made for short run gain that will ultimately lead to a long-run loss. However, if the game for whatever reason doesn't have a long-term future anyway, then it's in the designers best interests to extract as much short-run gain out of it as possible. All of this is simply fiscally sensible behavior.
The waters are, of course, substantially muddied by the IP contract with WotC.
He's referring to the trade function we have as players. The function you normally used to help out a guildie by giving them repair kits or pots during a dungeon run will then be used by goldspammers to transfer GMOPs with RL$ even if they disable AH. There are always going to be a loophole that them spammers can use but the legit players are the ones who will be suffering from these nonsensical changes..
*sighs*
They've been doing this, from the beginning. They probably even mail items to people.
A new tack; they said they're nerfing the dailies and hourlies because not enough people were taking advantage of them; but the whole point of this change is supposed to be increasing the opportunities to make AD; plenty of us do the dailies and hourlies religiously, and nerfing them is a big hit. It will be especially when the next CTA rolls around; I made an absolute killing on Storm Front a couple weeks ago; that wont be the case next time. It's all either completely stupid, or a big lie. Increasingly, my money is on the latter. It's not just PWE, though; the website deviantART made a similar profit-oriented move a month or so ago; except, they were honest about it. It did feel like a slap in the face, but the honesty was refreshing and reassuring. Although, they did spring it on us, a bit.
If you want robofarming, go play farmville or something.
ARE WE PERFECTLY CLEAR?
Rage against the zeitgeist.
0
theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Right-but isn't the point that disabling the AH wouldn't stop them from going about their business? It's not "oh, if you close the AH, they'll do SUPER EVIL STUFF!" It's "oh, if you close the AH, nothing will change."
So there's no disagreement. Stop sighing. STOP IT!
Well i never saw so many bots and exploits, than after this patch, but it was predictable. Most players left, it was like a nuclear wasteland in most instances and maps.
Also, i found already 2 huge bugs lol.
GG PVP was unplayable cause it had over a 5 sec lag.
Good job Cryptic!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
mattock13, that article sums up everything I have been feeling lately. I don't like being made to feel like a villain because i play HARD and work HARD at this game and that is what has been happening. Thanks for that link it gave me something to express what i've felt since this started.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
Right-but isn't the point that disabling the AH wouldn't stop them from going about their business? It's not "oh, if you close the AH, they'll do SUPER EVIL STUFF!" It's "oh, if you close the AH, nothing will change."
So there's no disagreement. Stop sighing. STOP IT!
LMAO!
Seriously? I even stated their PRIMARY source of income is AD. How exactly are they supposed to SELL AD, if they can't do it, through the Auction House?
*shakes head*
Cryptic took away Leadership from the Gateway *AND* AD from Leadership jobs, to keep Gold Sellers from making AD to sell for money, COS PEOPLE WERE BUYING IT, INSTEAD OF ZEN, AS IT WAS *CHEAPER*!
It's not rocket science!
Okay, I think I see the disconnect.
What I am saying is that, the AD they are currently selling over the AH that they would be unable to sell over the AH, would instead be funneled into GMOPs that they would sell using a different method of transaction. Resources currently devoted to one task, are devoted to another.
GMOPs are a trade item. They have recognized value. You can trade them with other players, because everyone recognizes that they have a worth of about 85k. Just because botters wouldn't be able to sell AD directly doesn't mean they can't effectively "sell" AD.
More to the point, without an AH, there's no longer any purpose for AD other than buying wondrous bazaar items and upgrading companions, so, there you go.
Of course, if you bound 100% of wondrous bazaar items AND got rid of the AH, yeah, the bots would be pretty f'd. They'd have to resort to selling actual gold, but who the !@#$ even uses that stuff?
OK, I've made a loong text but the developer will ignore him anyway so why bother, let's make it short
1) Non vip players only get one dungeon key so they will only get 1500 AD day from dungeons;
2) AD shop should have his prices dropped drastically, but it will not happen (at least not for months) if GMOP price don't drop the economy stay at the saem point it is now, we only get more poor
3) the prices for Apparence changes should drop 50% after this changes (but will not happen at all)
4) The LÇeadership profession will become useless, we spent a LOT of time ginding that stuff and all will be lost, - they could put "Bind on account" RP stuff or even LOOONG quest to get a GMOP and wards, but it will not happen.
My Conclusion, the Boot farming is not the issue here, they just want to make you buy more ZEN... ----- BTW how you would explain in a D&D session, This guy pays less for everthing and has bonus HP because he pay a "Vip Slot" to the game master, this still D&D right ? (surelly not anymore)
Ya, I can't do this anymore. My TR turning into a kitten with mod 6, a year developing characters to get some rewards from leadership. 100's of zen dollars for the pay to enjoy aspect. No army here, and I can't spend another 6 months to get my TR back to where it was for mod 5. It's not like I can switch my high end stuff between characters in the same account. Actually that would be the only way I would stick around. I am a PVE mostly anyway.
mattock13, that article sums up everything I have been feeling lately. I don't like being made to feel like a villain because i play HARD and work HARD at this game and that is what has been happening. Thanks for that link it gave me something to express what i've felt since this started.
What I am saying is that, the AD they are currently selling over the AH that they would be unable to sell over the AH, would instead be funneled into GMOPs that they would sell using a different method of transaction. Resources currently devoted to one task, are devoted to another.
GMOPs are a trade item. They have recognized value. You can trade them with other players, because everyone recognizes that they have a worth of about 85k. Just because botters wouldn't be able to sell AD directly doesn't mean they can't effectively "sell" AD.
More to the point, without an AH, there's no longer any purpose for AD other than buying wondrous bazaar items and upgrading companions, so, there you go.
Of course, if you bound 100% of wondrous bazaar items AND got rid of the AH, yeah, the bots would be pretty f'd. They'd have to resort to selling actual gold, but who the !@#$ even uses that stuff?
You're still missing the point......it's moot now.
i think that this change was needed a long time ago. It's a step to the right direction.
Lets face it all the BiS characters are those with leadership army, not countless hours of play nor real money. Only leadership armies. You can easily get 200k+ AD/day with only 20+ toons and there are a lot of players with many more. You can do the math. There are no real money that can buy this amount of AD every single day.
Um, I call BS, Son. I've been around since Beta. I've spent money on this game. A decent amount. I worked my tail off, getting all my toons to 60, before Mod6 and only 2 had *ALMOST* all their Boons (the key word is "almost") and they all had their epic gear, which they EARNED. My "leadership army" was nothing and was not the problem.
It's total unfair for a player who really likes one or two classes and enjoys playing them for countless hours not to be able to come at least close to those with leadership armies. (i dont even mention casual players for the last 2 mods, they are doomed).
We call this "whining." What's "total(ly) unfair" is the fact that all of *MY* work "for countless hours" over the span of almost 3 years is nerfed, due to a bunch of nOOb crybabies that want to HAMSTER and moan about what they didn't get and what they don't have. I spent REAL money to buy keys, trade Zen for AD to purchase Men-at-Arms and Adventurers to build my "leadership army." Once again, this has nothing to do, with bots and the only people that are really crying foul are the "have nots", who more than likely haven't put a dime in the game.
Uh, I've been playing PnP D&D for over 30 years and I can tell you that "And im sure no one enjoys playing all classes" is utterly wrong. I've played EVERY class in both 1st and 2nd Edition D&D and I played *EVERY* class when I worked at BioWare, during Neverwinter Nights. Stop making assumptions for other people. It makes you look foolish.
You haven't spent a dime on the game. You're a F2P leecher, but since you haven't invested in the game, you can't catch up to the power creep and now you're pissed off, 'cos it's "not fair." You can't afford to buy heroes or adventurers or men-at-arms, 'cos you don't want to put down 10$ on a game you enjoy. So, rather than INVEST in the game, you cry like a baby about "what you didn't get", "whose at fault", "what is fair."
You're a finger pointer. But remember, every time you point fingers, you have three fingers pointing back at yourself.
Food for thought.
Amen brother. I've been playing DnD since the late 70's. Go forth and smite the wicked.
The big issue with the nerf that I don't see commented on much is that we can no longer earn ADs in parallel, but can only get ADs on one toon at a time.
So even for a player with two characters, it is HUGE nerf (up to 50% ADs generated assuming they used leadership) ... if only one character, probably not noticeable.
1. Leadership should give RP! Bound to account. Lets say half the amount of RP what was AD before.
2. Make dungeons REALLY worthwile. These pittyful ADs you can make with these changes of yours wouldnt even fit to shove it up ur tiny as…sses! Just saying :-D
Otherwise, NWO will become a desert in 1-2 months.
Comments
That, by the way, may be what causes the greatest change in price level on the AH: not actual AD in the hands of players, but rather a willingness of players to spend AD. If everyone expects the price level to go down, then no one will be buying and that will, in turn, cause the price level to go down (as people have wares to sell but no one is buying them and end up lowering their prices to try and move goods).
Gold Sellers have (probably) BILLIONS of AD to sell, at their disposal. This has always been the problem. Mainly, 'cos people want to buy from them, instead of Cryptic, as it's cheaper. Disabling the AH, to prevent them from selling that AD effectively cripples them. Sure, they can buy GMoPs and sell them, just like they can sell stacks of R4s, R5s, whatever they want. There's nothing Cryptic can do to stop them.
What they CAN stop, however, is the transfer of AD from Gold Sellers to Players. the AH will change. It won't be gone, but it would be changed. AD will only be useful to the account it's on.
The way it was supposed to be, from the beginning.
Also, I'd like to point out that I've only told you part of the resolution. I didn't tell you the whole thing.
Disabling the AH causes them to transfer GMOPs or other AD based items to players, and get paid in cash.
So disabling the AH does nothing but, ironically, reduce the cost for the goldspammers, because the 10% cut is no longer factored in.
hmmmmm....... all this talk of AH prices plummeting has me thinking I should be checking prices on the Pirate hats.... maybe that's a little too wistful on my part, but one can dream.I noticed the stage 2 loading splash is back, it was totally skipping that before the patch, just hitting the Cryptic loader and going right to login. Interesting...Rage against the zeitgeist.
(http://www.grievancegaming.org)
Again, what they've been doing, since the beginning. No, it doesn't. It prevents them from selling AD for a profit. That's their bread and butter. People want the AD for Boons, Strongholds, RP stones, etc. Sure, they can buy GMoP, but people can't trade those for AD. So, if they want them, they want them for upgrading artifacts and enchants, but that's yet another thing that I've not touched on.
Not yet.
Also, keep in mind that Gold Sellers gobble up Zen on the ZAX as quickly as possible. They need it, as well.
PS: gold as a currency is a joke, in 2 years of game play I have only ever used it to buy injury kits. And now that I was stupid enough to buy 12 months VIP (which is basically worthless now) I don't even need those
What's a bad thing are decisions made for short run gain that will ultimately lead to a long-run loss. However, if the game for whatever reason doesn't have a long-term future anyway, then it's in the designers best interests to extract as much short-run gain out of it as possible. All of this is simply fiscally sensible behavior.
The waters are, of course, substantially muddied by the IP contract with WotC.
*sighs*
They've been doing this, from the beginning. They probably even mail items to people.
Rage against the zeitgeist.
So there's no disagreement. Stop sighing. STOP IT!
This would encourage more play on alt characters.
The BAD:
That means equipping 3 or more characters.
The UGLY:
Three characters maxed out is very near 1 BILLION AD
1,000,000,000 ADs earned at 16k/hr .... or 7.134 YEARS CONTINUOUS PLAY **OR*** 2,000,000 Zens / $20,000 USD ...
Yeah ... sounds about FREE TO PLAY ....
Also, i found already 2 huge bugs lol.
GG PVP was unplayable cause it had over a 5 sec lag.
Good job Cryptic!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
What I am saying is that, the AD they are currently selling over the AH that they would be unable to sell over the AH, would instead be funneled into GMOPs that they would sell using a different method of transaction. Resources currently devoted to one task, are devoted to another.
GMOPs are a trade item. They have recognized value. You can trade them with other players, because everyone recognizes that they have a worth of about 85k. Just because botters wouldn't be able to sell AD directly doesn't mean they can't effectively "sell" AD.
More to the point, without an AH, there's no longer any purpose for AD other than buying wondrous bazaar items and upgrading companions, so, there you go.
Of course, if you bound 100% of wondrous bazaar items AND got rid of the AH, yeah, the bots would be pretty f'd. They'd have to resort to selling actual gold, but who the !@#$ even uses that stuff?
1) Non vip players only get one dungeon key so they will only get 1500 AD day from dungeons;
2) AD shop should have his prices dropped drastically, but it will not happen (at least not for months) if GMOP price don't drop the economy stay at the saem point it is now, we only get more poor
3) the prices for Apparence changes should drop 50% after this changes (but will not happen at all)
4) The LÇeadership profession will become useless, we spent a LOT of time ginding that stuff and all will be lost,
- they could put "Bind on account" RP stuff or even LOOONG quest to get a GMOP and wards, but it will not happen.
My Conclusion, the Boot farming is not the issue here, they just want to make you buy more ZEN...
-----
BTW how you would explain in a D&D session, This guy pays less for everthing and has bonus HP because he pay a "Vip Slot" to the game master, this still D&D right ? (surelly not anymore)
I wish I hadn't missed it.
Uh, I've been playing PnP D&D for over 30 years and I can tell you that "And im sure no one enjoys playing all classes" is utterly wrong. I've played EVERY class in both 1st and 2nd Edition D&D and I played *EVERY* class when I worked at BioWare, during Neverwinter Nights. Stop making assumptions for other people. It makes you look foolish. Amen brother. I've been playing DnD since the late 70's. Go forth and smite the wicked.
So even for a player with two characters, it is HUGE nerf (up to 50% ADs generated assuming they used leadership) ... if only one character, probably not noticeable.
Not getting AD for a daily foundry quest or Leadership means... I'm not going to get AD.
And that means I'm probably not going to play.
1. Leadership should give RP! Bound to account. Lets say half the amount of RP what was AD before.
2. Make dungeons REALLY worthwile. These pittyful ADs you can make with these changes of yours wouldnt even fit to shove it up ur tiny as…sses! Just saying :-D
Otherwise, NWO will become a desert in 1-2 months.