Bots can run through dungeons and skirmishes just fine today, and they will do it 24/7 after those changes. Botters will run one character after the other to the daily AD limit, and this won't stop them.
I can see it already. Standard TOS run will take 20 minutes now because the lfg system doesn't match groups based on class. I'll end up in a run where the only character that qued in that can dps is a bot that spends the entire time jumping on the campfire.... and pvp will be even more fun. I'll be on the battlefield VS 3-5 other players by myself because the other 4 on my team are players scared of pvp, or bots, that just stand on the campfire.
Removing leadership from the gateway and now AD too. Ouch!
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Just when we thought it was safe to step back out into Neverwinter BAM! Cryptic strike again. Haven't you guys shot yourselves in the foot enough already? Can you even stand unaided anymore? The decisions being made are becoming more and more radical and threaten to alienate the playerbase even more than the abomination that Mod 6 was. Do you guys even MMO nevermind play NW?
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Bots can run through dungeons and skirmishes just fine today, and they will do it 24/7 after those changes. Botters will run one character after the other to the daily AD limit, and this won't stop them.
Botters are running in guilds, placing their lowlevel characters in PE for advertisement, while their highlevel characters are probably farming the Stronghold map.
Botters probably also monitor the Auction Hause 24/7 to buy good items cheap and resell them at a higher price again.
Botters are still farming 24/7 in Neverdeath the Ghost Stories, and not a single word about those bot hives.
Q: You want to fight botters? A: Get real GMs into your game.
If you go through with this change, more players will leave, and more players will not even bother to try your game. While botters will allways find a way to keep their AD flowing.
The last modules allready cost you many players, but with this change, i'm really curious to see how many players will keep on playing.
+1 and another thing... the ad changes and the biggest part of the suggestions here looks like economical decisions of some latin minister. i dont need say how bad that works here... you guys are programmers, not economists. call some profissional of the area to give suggerstions about that and limit yourselfs to work in your areas.
ps: so a artefact will cost 400k? so cut... to pass a green companion to blue that cost 500k. the fixed prices of some services will be inaccessible. well, waste of time.
Well, it looks like they don't even know what is going on in their own game, perhaps they should take the time to play their own game for more then a few minutes on some created characters for a Stream.
And i doubt that we will see reasonable changes to the game, to soften the blow of this change. Those prices will probably stay the same, and you might see some discount thing within VIP coming next...
* Unbound Hoard RP * Leadership on the Gateway * AD from Leadership
And the list goes longer for things we lost due to exploits and things not being guarded. So intead of taking security, actual measures in order to find a remedey to the bots, you're punishing the legit players. Crooked logic, gather your HAMSTER together and stop derping Cryptic.
You forgot to account for something: if everybody earns less then the value of AD goes up.
As Scott said Cryptic wants a more standardized level of income based on how much time you are playing instead of how many alts you have and how much play time you sacrifice to farm AD on them. Yes you will gain less, but so will everybody else and some more so than others. Many more so than others in truth.
But this will mean increase in value of AD as well as more gain for the time you do spend playing the game. You might not get 100K AD...but you likely will get more than the current 100K AD is worth in true value with the amount of AD you do gain.
I don't think this is just to combat bots, but also making it so the best way to have AD is by playing the game and not having a LS army. (wehich to many was always a stupid design flaw) of course if you had not waited this long to fix it, there would not have been this uproar. But I still see it as a good measure AS LONG as other measures are also taken so each character can still progress with its own playtime.
Okay people you need to calm down. It sounds so much worse than it actually is.
You get less AD. YES. The AD you get will skyrocket in Value. YES. Prices will DROP so that players can afford the items. YES.
A mount wont cost 4m AD in AH because nobody will be able to buy it and then the seller wont get his AD. So he will lower the price far enough so people can afford it. So instead of 4m maybe it will cost 400k. This wont happen over a night, but I think this is the long term goal.
And I think they will adjust all vendor/zen prices after time.
I love when people understand how economies work and understand that currency, like any other object, has a supply and demand value attached to it.
no isnt that simple that profession and all AD and RP was running for so long ... this game its already dead tell u why I just make a toon with all my rank 12.s and t fey + ancient weapons and guild acc. ...guess wut im lvl 18 now with 20k hp when average joe can expect a 3k . I can roll my *** over keyboard and kill all 5 new players wile i smoke a HAMSTER . That plus all the things wrong in the past make this game a bad experience .
as i said i wold even open a pool ...let us to chose Open new server fresh lvl 1 for all no zen infusion ( just new accounts ) no leadership and let us chose which way we go . Even if im preety good on my main in pvp pve ill move there just for a fair chance for every1 . Then u can keep the leadership as it is now and let the ppl play with dragons theyr millions and exploits . I bet they wont be happy and they cut the blah and move with us . In this state the game will sure die ... ppl will still leave coz of life job etc . but thats sure no1 will ever start and stay as a new player .
SO OPEN A NEW SERVER LET US MAKE IT EASY ... NO NEED NERF BAT I WILL MOVE FOR A BETTER AND FAIR GAME FOR US . let the multi millionars newbie killers there doin theyr leadership getting richer exploit IWD exploit eCC untill they manage to buy tiamat and make it theyr pet
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
I am on board with this change completely. With my limited game time, the only way I have been able to afford anything is by having a "Leadership Army" and that turned into a catch-22. All my available time each day was spent working Leadership. With these changes, I will be able to stop my "leadership army" and instead spend that 30-90 minutes actually playing the game AND earning AD. This sounds great to me. Looking forward to actually being able to play the game and not work it. Huzzah!
are you blind? ofc for a casual player playin 30-90 minutes will give you 24k ad, how much were you winnin with the leadership army?
compare it ? dont get me wrong. what they put ingame its not REWARDING, those are just most ridiculous quest they've done. a REWARD should be done by completing a dungeon/skirmish , and not only for doing a 3 quests and cap it to 24k ad.
do u even post anything than not noding at your superior ?
how can this help a new guy get a rank 12 if the cost to make it , it's 3 milion AD , while he does 24k ad ? with that 24k AD he will gonna buy other things each day. its outragoues, this is just remove the source of AD , leave the prices as they are, make the richer poorer, make fun of the newcommers.
I did not compare anything. I simply stated that the change allows to me to play the game and earn AD instead of being sucked into working a leadership army. Of course I'll be making less AD, but that doesn't matter because I was making way more than I needed anyway (I could easily bring in 1-2 mil a week). It was a downward-spiral. The more I made, the more I wanted, the more characters I made. Now I'll be able to focus on select characters and still make AD instead of doing nothing but Leadership most of my game time. Relax, you have your opinion, I have mine. No need to attack me for such.
So I'm very interested to know. How do you feel about all those soon to be wasted character slots you purchased throughout these two years?
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Yeah, good luck with donating AD for improvements.
Small guilds=even more screwed. Large guilds with botters and leftover riches from former exploits=even more powerful.
and there I wonder WHY do not investigate and definitively banish those who exploit the game and who are now BIS ? WHY ? This should be the FIRST step to be taken by the developers ! But does not seem that the exploiters somehow " promote " the game .
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Bots can run through dungeons and skirmishes just fine today, and they will do it 24/7 after those changes. Botters will run one character after the other to the daily AD limit, and this won't stop them.
I can see it already. Standard TOS run will take 20 minutes now because the lfg system doesn't match groups based on class. I'll end up in a run where the only character that qued in that can dps is a bot that spends the entire time jumping on the campfire.... and pvp will be even more fun. I'll be on the battlefield VS 3-5 other players by myself because the other 4 on my team are players scared of pvp, or bots, that just stand on the campfire.
I think those botters can map the dungeon or skirmish, and they will probably have no problem with fighting the normal mobs... not so sure about bosses.
Perhaps they will just teleport from one boss to the other, instant kill them with some bug/exploit, and then move on to the next dungeon/skirmish?
You forgot to account for something: if everybody earns less then the value of AD goes up.
As Scott said Cryptic wants a more standardized level of income based on how much time you are playing instead of how many alts you have and how much play time you sacrifice to farm AD on them. Yes you will gain less, but so will everybody else and some more so than others. Many more so than others in truth.
But this will mean increase in value of AD as well as more gain for the time you do spend playing the game. You might not get 100K AD...but you likely will get more than the current 100K AD is worth in true value with the amount of AD you do gain.
The only way this is going to hurt the bot armies , is that there wont be enough legit players left to make botting profitable.
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ambisinisterrMember, Neverwinter ModeratorPosts: 10,462Community Moderator
that is only true if the cost of the cryptic set price items goes down as well. the cost of gmops and coal wards needs to come down or their new inflation adjusted cost will be in the millions.
You are using the right logic but applying it backwards. If the cost of GMoPs stay high then AD will be even more valuable. Meaning you will earn more value for the little amount of AD you do make in a day.
That doesn't mean the prices shouldn't be lowered... But overall the less AD everybody makes and the more it is spent in a store (AND NOT IN THE AH) the more valuable it will be. Supply and demand in its simplest forms.
Botters gonna bot, they will just shift efforts elsewhere as has been proven by EVERY SINGLE INEFFECTIVE ANTI PLAYER CHANGE MADE SO FAR.
Guess there will be a lot of goodbyes being said today as the playerbase shifts to other games that don't hate their players and think through massive changes before implementing them. Will be sad sight as this game has been home to many friendships over the last couple of years.
After all, RP from leadership will become bound next (BTC for maximum carnage) completing the move to being a totally anti-alt game.
I don't understand people who complain they won't have time to play their 10 alts now. of course that actually actively playing 10 alts should take a HAMSTER long time to do. and for those who say they have lives and only have time to play to do leadership, well I can tell you that this is probably the wrong game for you. why even get AD if you don't have to play the game? getting ad for nopthing like a fancy facebook game?
People are fools if they believe this was done with the "good" of the players in mind. PC players are being relegated to nothing more than a test server for xbox.
I cry for pvp , it will be overrun with bots, and we all know how efficient they are at cleaning up bots everytime we have to complete ghost stories.
Don't worry, many players will stop complaining and simply leave, and then we will see, how much fun you will have with all the bots running around in dungeons and skirmishes "playing the game, to earn AD".
Botters will find a way in this game. Players will just find a new game.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
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thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
I was going to write a 5 page wall of text on this, but then I realized that the people who are upset about the issue don't want to read sound logic and the people who aren't upset don't need it explained anyhow. So, to sum it up in a much shorter post:
1) Devs have decreased the amount of AD in the economy, this will in turn increase the value of AD, or to put it in a better way, the prices of items (including RP) will drop to account for the new value of AD. This is due to the law of supply and demand, the supply of stuff is the same, but the demand for it at that price has decreased. As these items are virtual and there is no loss at selling it cheaper, the price will therefore drop.
2) The big issue is not RP, its items with fixed value like GMoP's, upgrades for mounts, the crafting of items like AP gain jewels, the stronghold mimic etc. This is because these items are not influenced by supply and demand and the price of them will always remain the same. To upgrade your gear, you will always need GMoP's, to get GMoP's, you always need the same amount of AD. I could write down the massive amounts of AD needed for both the strongholds and for GMoP's, but its irrelevant, other people have done it before and I am sure everyone knows and understands how much they cost, especially the devs.
3) The 2nd issue is that people who are botting now, will still want to profit off of bots. They can no longer bot leadership for AD, so what can they bot for? Well, RP of coarse. Other bots have been doing this already, which is why there is so much RP on the AH, we all know its botted, I seriously doubt that any human is dedicated enough to farm 200 stacks of r5's to post them on auction. What this change will do is move bots from leadership AD to RP, which of coarse will drop the price of RP to make it more affordable, but these botters will still be getting all the currency.
4) The easy way to identify who the botters are in mod 9 (not mod 8) if no changes are made, will be from gear. The people with BiS gear in mod 9 will probably be the people who are botting RP. This is because everyone else will be buying RP from them with AD, so all the AD will flow in 1 direction. This means that they will have the currency to afford to get their perfect gear and it means that likely everyone else will be in a worse spot. Whilst there will be a few non botters with BiS gear, the clever traders and the people who are mega rich now, by and large, the majority of BiS players in mod 9 will be botters.
5) The solution? Well, either drop the price on things with fixed value, or get rid of artifact gear and go back to the old gear system. I prefer the second option, get rid of all the artifact waffle, this significantly cuts down on the earnings of botters as it murders the demand for RP and at the same time it means the economy will be better equipped to cope with a much smaller pool of global AD. There are probably lots of other solutions, but I am not going to stretch my response into 5 pages like I originally intended.
The only way this is going to hurt the bot armies , is that there wont be enough legit players left to make botting profitable.
Great goal.... not take long to reach it?
Their intention were "remove AD sources" we just got fooled(players), but menace is to continue and each type of automatic content playing software will adapt... many normal player just go away...
Peak usage is already dropping and Strongholds hadn't brought back many folks as it was.
The problem I see with these changes is they haven't introduced new sources of AD that can even remotely compensate for the extreme in game AD costs. Take GMOPs for example. At 100K a pop and not much to sell, no one will be able to afford them by "just playing" the game.
Leadership took months and months to get to level 25. It was a reward to players who stuck with the game. I guess Cryptic hates their players more than they hate botters. Botters will just keep doing what they always did. Once again the real players are the ones that get burned the most.
the same way than only beating a dungeon will earn AD, only winning a PVP match should earn AD. that would make it harder for bots too. (Although with the current matchmaking it would also make it harder for players)
Why not follow the people that bought or still buy the astral diamonds and just ban them ? Why do you punish people that doesn't buy astral diamonds from those sites. ?
OK, reality check here guys. They are not doing this to combat bots, just stop with that already. That is as simple as detection code, no in-game changes needed. What is going on here is what always happens with free to play games. Eventually the players find ways of making enough in-game currency to avoid having to pull out the credit card. That is a problem, because the bottom line is that no matter how many players love the game or leave the game if there is not enough credit cards coming through the cash window, the servers have to be turned off. The player base could be happy as a lark and huge as can be, but if there is no cash then the electric bill doesn't get paid, the stockholders sell shares short, and the employees all get fired. It is a business, they are not combating the botters as much as they are combating the players who have found ways to earn cash equivalent in game currency without spending cash. They have to set up the economy such that you need to spend more AD then you can earn in game or you have no incentive to pull out the credit card and keep their servers running. This is just how any free to play business model has to be set up. They had goofed with the leadership and the 50 character slots, now they realize that you can make enough ad with that set up that you never have to buy with cash, so they are closing that avenue. Botting really has nothing to do with it and it is insulting to your players to make that claim. If you wanted bots gone you would have done it long ago, it is possible. Heck just watch trade/PE zone chat for 10 minutes and starting doing IP traces on the spammers. Or as earlier and repeated stated, just implement a 3rd party software detection code and be done with it. Basic economic models like this games are understandable, reasonable, and expected of a for-profit company. So please just be honest with your players and you wont have anywhere as much animosity leveled at you when your actions fail to remove even one bot, but hit their wallets hard.
You forgot to account for something: if everybody earns less then the value of AD goes up.
As Scott said Cryptic wants a more standardized level of income based on how much time you are playing instead of how many alts you have and how much play time you sacrifice to farm AD on them. Yes you will gain less, but so will everybody else and some more so than others. Many more so than others in truth.
But this will mean increase in value of AD as well as more gain for the time you do spend playing the game. You might not get 100K AD...but you likely will get more than the current 100K AD is worth in true value with the amount of AD you do gain.
And once again someone forgets the fixed prices set by Cryptic. GMOPs are not getting cheaper, wards are not getting cheaper, upgrading companions is not getting cheaper, etc.
Those are the things the value of AD have to be measured against.
Comments
I can see it already. Standard TOS run will take 20 minutes now because the lfg system doesn't match groups based on class. I'll end up in a run where the only character that qued in that can dps is a bot that spends the entire time jumping on the campfire....
and pvp will be even more fun. I'll be on the battlefield VS 3-5 other players by myself because the other 4 on my team are players scared of pvp, or bots, that just stand on the campfire.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
And i doubt that we will see reasonable changes to the game, to soften the blow of this change. Those prices will probably stay the same, and you might see some discount thing within VIP coming next...
Almost 400 posts before you found a positive one to comment on...
* Unbound Hoard RP
* Leadership on the Gateway
* AD from Leadership
And the list goes longer for things we lost due to exploits and things not being guarded. So intead of taking security, actual measures in order to find a remedey to the bots, you're punishing the legit players. Crooked logic, gather your HAMSTER together and stop derping Cryptic.
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
As Scott said Cryptic wants a more standardized level of income based on how much time you are playing instead of how many alts you have and how much play time you sacrifice to farm AD on them. Yes you will gain less, but so will everybody else and some more so than others. Many more so than others in truth.
But this will mean increase in value of AD as well as more gain for the time you do spend playing the game. You might not get 100K AD...but you likely will get more than the current 100K AD is worth in true value with the amount of AD you do gain.
that profession and all AD and RP was running for so long ... this game its already dead
tell u why I just make a toon with all my rank 12.s and t fey + ancient weapons and guild acc. ...guess wut im lvl 18 now with 20k hp when average joe can expect a 3k . I can roll my *** over keyboard and kill all 5 new players wile i smoke a HAMSTER . That plus all the things wrong in the past make this game a bad experience .
as i said i wold even open a pool ...let us to chose
Open new server fresh lvl 1 for all no zen infusion ( just new accounts ) no leadership and let us chose which way we go .
Even if im preety good on my main in pvp pve ill move there just for a fair chance for every1 . Then u can keep the leadership as it is now and let the ppl play with dragons theyr millions and exploits .
I bet they wont be happy and they cut the blah and move with us .
In this state the game will sure die ... ppl will still leave coz of life job etc . but thats sure no1 will ever start and stay as a new player .
SO OPEN A NEW SERVER LET US MAKE IT EASY ... NO NEED NERF BAT I WILL MOVE FOR A BETTER AND FAIR GAME FOR US .
let the multi millionars newbie killers there doin theyr leadership getting richer exploit IWD exploit eCC untill they manage to buy tiamat and make it theyr pet
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Perhaps they will just teleport from one boss to the other, instant kill them with some bug/exploit, and then move on to the next dungeon/skirmish?
We have to wait and see...
If the cost of GMoPs stay high then AD will be even more valuable. Meaning you will earn more value for the little amount of AD you do make in a day.
That doesn't mean the prices shouldn't be lowered...
But overall the less AD everybody makes and the more it is spent in a store (AND NOT IN THE AH) the more valuable it will be. Supply and demand in its simplest forms.
Guess there will be a lot of goodbyes being said today as the playerbase shifts to other games that don't hate their players and think through massive changes before implementing them. Will be sad sight as this game has been home to many friendships over the last couple of years.
After all, RP from leadership will become bound next (BTC for maximum carnage) completing the move to being a totally anti-alt game.
and for those who say they have lives and only have time to play to do leadership, well I can tell you that this is probably the wrong game for you. why even get AD if you don't have to play the game? getting ad for nopthing like a fancy facebook game?
I cry for pvp , it will be overrun with bots, and we all know how efficient they are at cleaning up bots everytime we have to complete ghost stories.
Botters will find a way in this game.
Players will just find a new game.
1) Devs have decreased the amount of AD in the economy, this will in turn increase the value of AD, or to put it in a better way, the prices of items (including RP) will drop to account for the new value of AD. This is due to the law of supply and demand, the supply of stuff is the same, but the demand for it at that price has decreased. As these items are virtual and there is no loss at selling it cheaper, the price will therefore drop.
2) The big issue is not RP, its items with fixed value like GMoP's, upgrades for mounts, the crafting of items like AP gain jewels, the stronghold mimic etc. This is because these items are not influenced by supply and demand and the price of them will always remain the same. To upgrade your gear, you will always need GMoP's, to get GMoP's, you always need the same amount of AD. I could write down the massive amounts of AD needed for both the strongholds and for GMoP's, but its irrelevant, other people have done it before and I am sure everyone knows and understands how much they cost, especially the devs.
3) The 2nd issue is that people who are botting now, will still want to profit off of bots. They can no longer bot leadership for AD, so what can they bot for? Well, RP of coarse. Other bots have been doing this already, which is why there is so much RP on the AH, we all know its botted, I seriously doubt that any human is dedicated enough to farm 200 stacks of r5's to post them on auction. What this change will do is move bots from leadership AD to RP, which of coarse will drop the price of RP to make it more affordable, but these botters will still be getting all the currency.
4) The easy way to identify who the botters are in mod 9 (not mod 8) if no changes are made, will be from gear. The people with BiS gear in mod 9 will probably be the people who are botting RP. This is because everyone else will be buying RP from them with AD, so all the AD will flow in 1 direction. This means that they will have the currency to afford to get their perfect gear and it means that likely everyone else will be in a worse spot. Whilst there will be a few non botters with BiS gear, the clever traders and the people who are mega rich now, by and large, the majority of BiS players in mod 9 will be botters.
5) The solution? Well, either drop the price on things with fixed value, or get rid of artifact gear and go back to the old gear system. I prefer the second option, get rid of all the artifact waffle, this significantly cuts down on the earnings of botters as it murders the demand for RP and at the same time it means the economy will be better equipped to cope with a much smaller pool of global AD. There are probably lots of other solutions, but I am not going to stretch my response into 5 pages like I originally intended.
Their intention were "remove AD sources" we just got fooled(players), but menace is to continue and each type of automatic content playing software will adapt... many normal player just go away...
...and soon ZONE chat is bot free, cool...
http://steamcharts.com/app/109600
Peak usage is already dropping and Strongholds hadn't brought back many folks as it was.
The problem I see with these changes is they haven't introduced new sources of AD that can even remotely compensate for the extreme in game AD costs. Take GMOPs for example. At 100K a pop and not much to sell, no one will be able to afford them by "just playing" the game.
Leadership took months and months to get to level 25. It was a reward to players who stuck with the game. I guess Cryptic hates their players more than they hate botters. Botters will just keep doing what they always did. Once again the real players are the ones that get burned the most.
Those are the things the value of AD have to be measured against.