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Astral Diamond Changes

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  • torontodavetorontodave Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 992 Arc User
    metalldjt said:

    WHAT ABOUT THE BOTS IN GHOST STORIES ????? where you guys fix that? they are doing as we speak, so hurry up and take a look

    QFT, I went to Neverdeath Graveyard on an alt to finish up some Tyranny of Dragons stuff, Asked for a dragon timer, was INCREDIBLY DISMAYED at seeing like 50+ instances of Neverdeath Graveyard ..

    50 instances full of bots. =(

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    Thanks for all the fish.
  • zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    When players are
    (1) repeating limited content for
    (2) such little reward that they
    (3) don't progress in a D&D game where
    (4) half the dungeons are missing and
    (5) existing dungeons give dull rewards and
    (6) they get roflstompled or botcamped in pvp and
    (7) they realize they can never get BiS through playing and
    (8) their Guild hall has not progressed in months and
    (9) pay to win BiS is over $6000 then
    (10) they feel unhappy and leave

    AD influx from leadership was out of control. A ballsy move to stop it.
    Sure the population will decline even more, that is a calculated risk the devs took.
    Neverwinter could survive depending on the devs next moves.
    A necessary change but possibly the death nail at the same time.
    Will be interesting to see how it unfolds








    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

  • eskevareskevar Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 16 Arc User
    zeusom said:

    When players are
    (1) repeating limited content for
    (2) such little reward that they
    (3) don't progress in a D&D game where
    (4) half the dungeons are missing and
    (5) existing dungeons give dull rewards and
    (5) they get roflstompled in broken pvp and
    (6) pay to win is incredibly expensive then
    (7) they feel unhappy and leave

    AD influx from leadership was out of control. A ballsy move to stop it.
    Will be interesting to see how it unfolds.
    Sure yet more players will leave the game.
    Neverwinter could survive depending on the devs next moves.
    A necessary change but possibly the death nail at the same time.

    I agree
  • vordaynvordayn Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,283 Arc User
    macjae said:


    Yes, the magic "botters" again. Clearly stopping all the terrible botters takes precedence over allowing your players to earn an in-game income above the equivalent of the subsistence level of a malnourished third world dirt farmer.

    QFT. Imagery seems apt.
    macjae said:


    Finally, your avatar just seems wonderfully appropriate for the post you made.

    Nice.
    Vordon CW        Vordayn DC        Axel Wolfric GWF        Logain SW        Gawyn GF        Galad OP        Aspen Darkfire HR        Min TR
  • narasjgnarasjg Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 5 Arc User
    these changes are not good , most people are affected because of these botters ,you need to find another way , cancelling an important feature of the game is gonna drive people away .
    you could moniter high amount selling in AH and decide the botters and block their IP and accounts .
    it's not fair after all we spent to remove our AD daily gain and replace it with what it seems good but it wont be any good for any , please reconsider this idea ..
  • aratecharatech Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User
    narasjg said:

    these changes are not good , most people are affected because of these botters ,you need to find another way , cancelling an important feature of the game is gonna drive people away .
    you could moniter high amount selling in AH and decide the botters and block their IP and accounts .
    it's not fair after all we spent to remove our AD daily gain and replace it with what it seems good but it wont be any good for any , please reconsider this idea ..

    Or you could do something as simple as have some actual in-game GMs (I hear they're merely endangered, rather than extinct) respond to players showing suspected bot activity. I.E. contact, and if it can't pass the NWO equivalent of a Turing Test, then ban them.
  • szejhuludpuchaczszejhuludpuchacz Member Posts: 306 Arc User
    If you put 5k ad in T2 chest (less in T1), not daily but farmable I could agree with changes... But if its going to be like 1k extra ad once per day it will kill this game faster than you want.
    200_s.gif
  • romotheoneromotheone Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 729 Arc User
    I'll open my lockboxes for the remaining 7 days I have of my VIP status. After that I'll just sit back and watch this game from a distance.
  • copperminkcoppermink Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    First, all interesting content gets limited to level 60. First horible move, one of the few fun parts of leveling alts was to hit the campaign zones at 60 and giving your best.
    And now AD are getting limited even more, forcing people to replay the same few dungeons even more often. For half the reward per run even. Those reward timers where usefull, you know. Brought guilds together at specific times. Wonderfull... all fun getting sucked out. Helping new guild members? No way, no time, need to grind dungeons, preferably even while i sleep.
  • alin119alin119 Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    overall i love the idea .
    1 ) i do not have ls profession of any of my toons
    2) if this change come along with limit refine set for like 40k / toon its best
    3 ) crying bout the cost of gmops and things guys its just blah blah
    4) u were forced players like me to give a bread to the boots and buy from them due ur hight AH prices
    im asking you since u calculate how many days u need to save up ad for a gmop ...then how many days u have to save ur RP for upgrading ur stuff
    5 ) bet the developers thing at this game not the way u do ...like new gear comes out and then 3 days after i see ppl with legendary gear
    6 ) like that everything in game pve pvp get not newbie friendly and things goes viral when one its bis in days just coz of damn profession and new players will never compete
    7 )if after me ... things ill do ... i will open the preview shard to a standard shard with fresh lvl 1 no leadership and take it from there so every1 will be happy ..scums will stay on actual shard but they will pvp against other scums and we casual players we can have a friendly shard we can grow . ( and we see after few months where the ppl tend to move )
  • darthpotaterdarthpotater Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,188 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    But but but what about making people happy? Is that SO hard? Every business want their customers happy....

    People is happy with some loot to sell, or just rewarding loot for themselves.... Just start the changes with something like this and other changes would be welcomed or at least not seen like they are.

    The major problem is think that players are idiots and will accept a lie saying that you are increasing the AD for players and you are fighting bots. Bots doesnt have 50 alts in 1 account or have leadership at 25.

    Tell the truth, that you want to remove AD printing (and thats OK) and that was a design mistake, give somethig to compensate, and thigs will be different.
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  • cjh1983cjh1983 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 229 Arc User
    I really don't see how they can justify these changes based on the feedback here. I knew something was up this week when no devs were posting.
  • viperwitch23viperwitch23 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 205 Arc User
    Jesus Christ on motorbike...
    Are you really thinking of putting in THOSE CHANGES?
    I know 10+ plus people in my guild that do ad FROM LEADERSHIP

    This will not kill botters - it will make them even more annoying then before
    In module 5 i knew 1 guy who said he was writing a bot to run castle never.
    You kill AD from leadership imagine what those botters going to do next?
    No clue?
    I tell you - they going to create bots that would auto-run TOS and normal dungeons for rewards
    I already seen botters in pvp who are just hop hop hop about like mad rabbits so they don't get kicked for afkiness so pvp ends they do it 4 times get daily amount
    When you increase the max daily amount to 7200 they just gonna do this on skirmishes dungeons and pvp - imagine how this going to ruin the server with lag?
    3000 bots running 1000 TOS at once
    While good rule abiding players will have nothing to advance with because their business is ruined
    Those who did leadership for AD won't do it any more - won't be any point
    Those who did leadership to sell supply of mining claims siege engines and refugees to those who converted them to ad would be broke as well.
    All are going to go broke those who been demanding and those who been supplying and those are thousands of people. May be tens of thousands - what do you expect them to do? Go and buy ZEN?
    You just going to force good people to buy d FROM BOTTERS because they would be stuck and desperate.
    This desperation would make botters even more aggressive
    You don't understand who those people are - they are ruthless and got no respect for anyone or anything.
    You switch off their AD supply and back them into a corner and they will get soo mad that you can't imagine.
    This might actually end in them beginning to hack people's accounts to drain AD from them
    If this begins to happen this game going to as dead as the dodo


  • alin119alin119 Member Posts: 50 Arc User
    oh end last if that was just because of bots take from your head the idea to give ad for pvp ..... i dont want to remember the days when domi was 90% bots
    the dungeons and rest are fine since they require some skills to actually open the chest so i dont think bots will actually adapt on that
  • aratecharatech Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User
    cjh1983 said:

    I really don't see how they can justify these changes based on the feedback here. I knew something was up this week when no devs were posting.

    Simple. While it is often said "do not attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" it is increasingly evident that this is a move meant to squeeze more Zen sales from the handful of remaining players before this thing crashes and burns. I'm only grateful that NOR has a guild across multiple MMOs. Because it is increasingly likely that this game won't be here this time next year.
  • schweifer1982schweifer1982 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,662 Arc User
    OK fine by me but remove the AD from leadership .

    But the way it looks the changes for Dungeon and skirmish looks worst then it is now.

    Also if this will happen the AD sink from Stronghold need to be removed .

    Also i want from my money the maximum amount of AD .
    But this change will decrease the AD-zen change i think more less to 1 zen 300 ad. And this is not good to me or any one hou want to bring zen to this game.

    Thnx for your time.
    GWF 3700Ilvl Éjsötét & ProPala 3200Ilvl Menydörgés (main) & Szürkefarkas 2600 ilvl
  • aratecharatech Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 269 Arc User

    OK fine by me but remove the AD from leadership .

    But the way it looks the changes for Dungeon and skirmish looks worst then it is now.

    Also if this will happen the AD sink from Stronghold need to be removed .

    Also i want from my money the maximum amount of AD .
    But this change will decrease the AD-zen change i think more less to 1 zen 300 ad. And this is not good to me or any one hou want to bring zen to this game.

    Thnx for your time.

    How about the fact that from level 60-69, i.e. the longest, most grind-intensive time period of the game, there are no skirmishes at all! No doubt, someone's brilliant idea to try and drive up sales of the 60-70 XP boost package...
  • aenuanaenuan Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 13 Arc User

    Okay people you need to calm down. It sounds so much worse than it actually is.

    You get less AD. YES.
    The AD you get will skyrocket in Value. YES.
    Prices will DROP so that players can afford the items. YES.

    A mount wont cost 4m AD in AH because nobody will be able to buy it and then the seller wont get his AD. So he will lower the price far enough so people can afford it. So instead of 4m maybe it will cost 400k. This wont happen over a night, but I think this is the long term goal.

    And I think they will adjust all vendor/zen prices after time.

    These mount wont cost less because there will not be anymore people who open lockboxes. Why? Because the drop rate wont be increased so you will have to open them same amount of lockboxes and spend the same amount of ads on keys, and when prices of mounts will drop down it wont be profitable.

    https://youtube.com/channel/UCsHy_ly0HtwhAT2T3OEiowg - yt channel with some records from PVP 5v5
  • snaponssnapons Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1 Arc User
    I don't post much in the forums but this really has me thinking. I lurk over in the uncensored forums and found this comment that makes sense

    http://nwo-uncensored.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=278&start=10#p2783

    here it is for people that don't want to follow a link

    something else i think is funny is the statement from goatshark

    Unfortunately, botters found a way around this fix. As we looked into the data, and as we analyzed what we could do to fix this exploit, we came to the conclusion that the way to stop the botters was to remove AD from the Leadership profession.

    This is an obvious reference to ingame professions botting. And this is after a BUNCH of quotes and cancelled threads from moderators saying there was no way in game botters were increasing, and there was no way to prove otherwise.

    I guess this is the confirmation we needed to show that we were correct.

    With that in mind, please listen to this developers and moderators.

    this action will NOT stop botters, it will just make them change the way they bot. instead of farming professions they will farm missions and PvP. What this will do is hurt the average player and the beginning player and they will quit.

    To mitigate some of this you need to rethink what you are doing to professions. I agree with the taking away of AD, but it shouldn't be replaced with gold. it should be replaced with account bound refinement items. Things we can refine our artifact Gear with. Since artifact gear is only good for the playing character it adds a benefit to the playing character, since refinement gear can NOT be traded after its been refined it prevents the bots from benefiting. so take away the awesome thing it grants that can be traded, and give us something awesome that can NOT be traded. and it won't hurt the economy.

    as far as the bots go, you aren't really going to stop them as they will just change to the next thing, pvp and dungeons, but at least by offering a reasonable replacement for AD in the leadership profession you can mitigate some of the hard feelings this is producing.

  • peterbilodeaupeterbilodeau Member Posts: 58 Arc User
    hustin1 said:

    If they want you to play the game, then every quest that isn't bottable should give AD. Sharandar, Dread Ring, IWD, WoD dailies should ALL give AD. Stronghold dailies should all give AD. Every HE you do should give AD, WITH NO CAP. Every EE quest should give AD. If the goal is to reward playing the game, then they need to put their AD where their mouths are.

    Can't disagree with this^, nor do I think cutting AD out of Leadership is a wholly bad move, but it seems to be getting a mod6-like implementation. The whole reason I have Leadership on my characters is so they can afford GMOPs and gear RP. Foreseeably, RP may drop in price on the AH, but it's hard to imagine it'll be that drastic (as it is the most valuable resource in the end-game). Meanwhile, GMOPs are controlled by the same people who control the flow of rAD and they've been drastically reducing rAD and AD income sources for quite some time. I don't know if this is a suicide move, but it's kind of dickish to solo and low-geared people, who relied on the modest income one could count on from Leadership. I've got people to group-play with, but there's no way I can afford to refine equipment and enchants with the income from what little group content I can usually budget time into on the one or two days I have time to play.

    In short: You need to implement time-currency rewards for spending time playing the game, not for spending time doing reps in the 3 PvP maps, 3 Dungeons, and 3 Skirmishes ONLY. You need to correct the price of items in the Wondrous Bazar to reflect a realistic un-suplimented income stream - something you should have done when you took away most of the sellable/salvageable gear. These are things this move seems to wave off as tomorrow-devs' problem, but they should have been addressed along with this change, not queued up with the Account Unlock Companions to be addressed whenever. Under-modest income from a bare few pieces of content, while maintaining exclusionary pricing in your time-currency shop, lends to only paint you guys and actions like cutting AD out of Leadership in a very poor light.

    Obviously, it's too late to fix this today, but you have to fix this ASAP.
  • zeusomzeusom Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 810 Arc User
    Why not add Stronghold vouchers as leadership rewards in place of ADs?
    Sopi (aka Haxbox) SW [Synergy]
    Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack

  • deathbeezdeathbeez Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 789 Arc User
    This was going to happen anyways. I heard the same thing happened in STO, and those players warned us to brace for impact.
    Bots are the Emmanuel Goldstein of NWO. A faceless, evil entity easily blamable for decisions that would happen with or without them.

    Ever notice how they give a double weekend right before they drop really bad news on us?
    It's so predicable now.

    It was either remove AD from leadership entirely or nerf it to uselessness. Either way, legit players were going to pay the price, like we always do.

    AD prices are higher then they've ever been and our sources to generate it have decreased, and decreased some more, and decreased some more.

    If this fallacy was true, why were the lord protector AD quests taken away? Those where actual log in and play AD sources... gone.



  • sabiwensabiwen Member Posts: 55 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    MY SUGGESTED FIX WITH NO LEADERSHIP AD


    Raise RAD cap to 100k per day
    • It should be possible, with grinding, to get enough for 1 GMOP perday
    Add more RAD to each dungeon, Skirmish, and PvP
    • T2 Dungeons get 10,000 first run, 7,500 second run, and 5,000 each run after (no cap)
    • T1 Dungeons get 6,000 first run, 4,500 second run, and 3,000 each run after (no cap)
    • Non Epic Dungeons get 4,000 first run, 3,000 second run, and 2,000 each run after (no cap)
    • Skirmishes get 4,000 first run, 3,000 second run, and 2,000 each run after (no cap)
    • PvP get's 6,000 first run, 4,500 second run, and 3,000 each run after (no cap)
    (The numbers can be adjusted, but this is just an example)

    Add RAD to each mission
    • Each mission earns you 500 (no cap)
    Add RAD to every HE
    • Epic HE gets you 1,000 each run
    • Major HE gets you 500 each run
    • Minor HE gets you 250 each run
    This will allow you to actually earn AD through playing the game. If you have one weekend to play, and have a life during the week, you can spend all day playing and make 200k RAD, or w/e. You can then refine that over two days. This will actually make the game worthwhile to play.

    Now, you cater to the group player, as well as the solo or small group player. This allows you to gain AD while leveling, as well as doing daily missions at level 70.

    You could, for example:
    • Run one T2 Dungeon - 10,000 AD
    • Run one Skirmish - 4,000 AD
    • Run one zone of missions (Dread for example) - 1,500
    • Do three missions in SH's - 1,500 AD
    • Run 3 minor HE's - 1,5000 AD
    • TOTALING: 18,500 AD from actual play.
    Another example, for the grinder:
    • Run 10 T2 Dungeons - 57,500 AD
  • rollingonitrollingonit Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    zeusom said:

    When players are
    (1) repeating limited content for
    (2) such little reward that they
    (3) don't progress in a D&D game where
    (4) half the dungeons are missing and
    (5) existing dungeons give dull rewards and
    (6) they get roflstompled or botcamped in pvp and
    (7) they realize they can never get BiS through playing and
    (8) their Guild hall has not progressed in months and
    (9) pay to win BiS is over $6000 then
    (10) they feel unhappy and leave

    AD influx from leadership was out of control. A ballsy move to stop it.
    Sure the population will decline even more, that is a calculated risk the devs took.
    Neverwinter could survive depending on the devs next moves.
    A necessary change but possibly the death nail at the same time.
    Will be interesting to see how it unfolds

    My exact sentiments on this change.

    Additionally, as ofc mentioned in other replies. The botters will just move to another thing. This WAS the most passive way to do it. But we have already seen other ways, and can foresee additional ways around it. If it comes to pass, it'll make other aspects of the game even less enjoyable/tedious.

    Are we to expect additional rather drastic changes to the obvious domino effect this "fix" will most likely put into motion?
    We can pretend.
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  • zacazuzacazu Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,934 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    ... the word of the day is... traumatic.

    things that you can do...

    1 - give more power to the guild. AND, OF COURSE, no more ad to keep the upgrade.

    2 - more easy trade tools. not item by ad, but item by item or ITENS BY WORK between players. turn a end game player, lords (that "play the game" is just a excuse and a lot of people have fun only trading. turn that more controllable and.. ahn... like a rpg).

    3 - change leadership not only for xp, guild points but BOONS POINTS. i still dont have the 2 last boons of way of dragon because of the linux. you have all the boons? xp? look the item 2.

    and so on...
  • styleschrisstyleschris Member Posts: 8 Arc User
    I can only talk for myself, but i can say i feel as tho the last 5 months or so of ingame profession time have just been almost totally wasted with this change, i had for most of my time here (since just after Beta) not bothered with leadership, then about 5 months ago thought hey i suppose i should ... then this !!

    I do agree with your theory/goal of limiting botters, but this will just alienate ALOT of your playerbase without probably hurting the bots as much as you think it will, certainly it has alienated me and i consider myself to be quite forgiving and easygoing (and one of those who have actually paid real cash for ingame stuff too).

    I dont say im leaving or that i quit or any other such nonsence, but i think ill be taking a small break from NW, I'll be back im fairly sure, but i'm irritated, very much so, just hope another game doesnt grab my game time ... who knows !!
  • romotheoneromotheone Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 729 Arc User
    zeusom said:

    Why not add Stronghold vouchers as leadership rewards in place of ADs?

    Because as stated before, all you'll see is bot services maxing out Strongholds for guilds.
  • kitkathdkitkathd Member Posts: 286 Arc User
    Prices will drop because people will have items they want to actually sell not put on show for everyone to gawk at. Either sell the item at a reasonable amount or risk fees. Simple economics. I get it you fear change, but you guys are looking at it skewed and not looking at the entire picture. With reduced influx of AD comes reduced costs and most importantly this removes the leadership profits from bot armies, now they will only get less than before because they are removing the freeby leadership stuff from the accounts they are already using to third party software it up. Yes it sucks that you guys invested in leadership, but you'll still make plenty off the RP items you get from it, about the same you'd make selling other profession goods. Its a balance thing as well. I love that they are putting an emphasis on playing the game as rewarding instead of gaming the system.
This discussion has been closed.