oh end last if that was just because of bots take from your head the idea to give ad for pvp ..... i dont want to remember the days when domi was 90% bots the dungeons and rest are fine since they require some skills to actually open the chest so i dont think bots will actually adapt on that
You be surprised. Some people I once knew could bot even call of duty and Battle Field. Do you think that to open the chest you need more skills then fly a MIG-21 and bombs everything flat all the time?
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mysticmarksMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 117Arc User
edited September 2015
Scott, I completely understand and see where you are trying to go with this. On the other hand I see exactly what this will ACTUALLY do to the players. Your currency models Have never been correct. The math doesn't work out. If you want to make it rewarding to play with this change, then you need to make more serious changes or you're driving off another massive chunk of your cash players.
1. the dungeons chests should drop a much wider array of items 2. Salvage values should be and stay double; On average it's a net loss to buy keys out of the dungeon hour to earn then salvage unneeded items. 3. FIX THE FOUNDRY(real bosses,etc) AND REWARD CHESTS IN FOUNDRY SCOTT. I asked about this prior to module 5 on a live twitch session to which It was "happening after mod 5 went out". Instead you introduced stronghold. Your neglect of the tool is a total waste of the something that could be fantastic. 4. OPEN BACK UP THE CLOSED DUNGEONS AND MORE "NOW", like "RIGHT NOW" Scott. 3 epics?.... man.. what the hell where you thinking. "Would you like a cup of water, a cup of water, or wait.. we also have a cup of water." 5. There are accounts with backlogged AD for years. This won't fix AH as you want it to at a rate that will coincide with real player losses on available AD. A better answer might have been a rework of how AH works. Otherwise, you've just created market separation where only those holding the vast AD in game now will continue to do so by price setting every item in game, forever.. and that Scott, sucks. That sucks so bad I want to boot my rig and start playing in mud puddles with warm beer. 6. FIX ENCHANTMENTS- You've made it very clear that some enchantments are far more useful than others now. I't completely clear when you look at the seal prices for shards. They should all be equally useful and of value in various ways. 7. GMOP and Coal Wards ..something man. I've been with you guy since the beginning. I pray every day. I get coffers at regular intervals. I have one character of each class Scott. In my play time I've gotten 3 coal wards ever. The rest I purchased. This whole concept of GMOP is insane at 100k AD each. 8. After all this time I would have thought I would feel like my time in plus vested cash would yield a premium character and gear. It just hasn't when I finally was reaching rank 8 stones on a few characters and doing good, you introduced rank 12's and difficulty changes. My rank 7-8's are like rank 5's now. Honestly, It was huge slap in the face to many. The only thing more taxing was you turning repair kits into a gold sync. Now i stay perpetually broke with gold and beg like a pauper for kits in game. All my time, loyalty, and money in wasn't enough. Now if I don't farm Lathandar's sets on 8 characters, or buy 70 dollars in vip status i will never maintain any source of gold.. my incentives to spend have become blackmail to spend. I played happily for over many moons without blowing through 100's of kits a day Scott. This is and has been total BS since you made that change. Can you at least turn the repair rate sitting at the fire up to a repair a minute an injury? Something man. I'm getting boots out of parties over this.
Post edited by mysticmarks on
Sometimes you're your own best teacher. ~Me
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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romotheoneMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 729Arc User
Prices will drop because people will have items they want to actually sell not put on show for everyone to gawk at. Either sell the item at a reasonable amount or risk fees. Simple economics. I get it you fear change, but you guys are looking at it skewed and not looking at the entire picture. With reduced influx of AD comes reduced costs and most importantly this removes the leadership profits from bot armies, now they will only get less than before because they are removing the freeby leadership stuff from the accounts they are already using to third party software it up. Yes it sucks that you guys invested in leadership, but you'll still make plenty off the RP items you get from it, about the same you'd make selling other profession goods. Its a balance thing as well. I love that they are putting an emphasis on playing the game as rewarding instead of gaming the system.
So a botter, sitting on billions of AD can just sit back and watch as his wealth multiplies over the course of the next weeks. You may be able to get 5 mil AD for 50$ today, but if the botter guy just waits a few weeks, he'll be selling 500k for 50$. Same goes for people who have massed up an insane amount of wealth and have no intention of turning it into real money. They can retire because the amount of AD they have today is going to be worth 10 times as much after a few weeks. Who is screwed? The new player.
Here is what they need to do to make this "AD" change I mean killing leadership to "fix" the economy...
They need to do a full AD wipe, take all AD from all accounts when they put this "fix" in so we are all on square one. That way all the botters wont be sitting on billions of AD (I happened to have a tad over 21m ad since I played for over 18months now) and yes Leadership was my main source of it. One of the best ways to make ad aside from Leadership was making alts from level 5 to 13 farming blacklake skrishmishes I made over 2.5m ad from those becuz I ran them during the bonus time...
Would I be upset if they did a full AD wipe to square us off? hell yes I would but it would be fair if they put this awful change in the game. Oh boy my 13 characters with level 25 leadership will get more xps... how fricken wonderful... I have my hunter (that was nerf'd over the last year to HAMSTER) with all rank 4 abilities (yes I play a lot) and I have 125 power points and when I level I get crapped on now since there isn't anything good after you unlocked all your points and keep leveling...
This game is becoming like road construction, every time I find an alternate path for fun, something gets triggered and it gets taken down! lol
oh by the way, game designers if you are truly reading this and you want to "fix" your game.. try this out:
if you require 1600 item score or 2000 item score for a dungeon, why don't you put on 1,600 or 2,000 item gear score gear and play the dungeon and post the video of you actually winning. Its such a joke when you put only 2k item score for ecc/efw and people wont even consider taking you unless you have 3.5k for the 1600 or 4.2k for the 2k dungeons...
prove to us common folk your item scores on the dungeons means you can complete the dungeon with that item score!
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
Add more items that people can salvage for AD like for example make Blues lev 70 salvageable for a set amount If blue alliance helmet gives 3000 Then blue lev 70 helmet of parry or smiting could give 1000 or 500 Make normal keys worth 1000 and epic 2000 So honest players can play get a drop and salvage it
yes that needs to change too if they 'fix' AD... they need to LOWER the cost of all items, why would someone spend 5k for a key to get 500ad at best worth of items? also make our VIP keys able to open normal chests if we want to use them. Its so crappy to have these epic keys and still be forced to buy a normal dungeon key for 2.5k
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viperwitch23Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 205Arc User
Here is what they need to do to make this "AD" change I mean killing leadership to "fix" the economy...
They need to do a full AD wipe, take all AD from all accounts when they put this "fix" in so we are all on square one. That way all the botters wont be sitting on billions of AD (I happened to have a tad over 21m ad since I played for over 18months now) and yes Leadership was my main source of it. One of the best ways to make ad aside from Leadership was making alts from level 5 to 13 farming blacklake skrishmishes I made over 2.5m ad from those becuz I ran them during the bonus time...
Would I be upset if they did a full AD wipe to square us off? hell yes I would but it would be fair if they put this awful change in the game. Oh boy my 13 characters with level 25 leadership will get more xps... how fricken wonderful... I have my hunter (that was nerf'd over the last year to HAMSTER) with all rank 4 abilities (yes I play a lot) and I have 125 power points and when I level I get crapped on now since there isn't anything good after you unlocked all your points and keep leveling...
This game is becoming like road construction, every time I find an alternate path for fun, something gets triggered and it gets taken down! lol
oh by the way, game designers if you are truly reading this and you want to "fix" your game.. try this out:
if you require 1600 item score or 2000 item score for a dungeon, why don't you put on 1,600 or 2,000 item gear score gear and play the dungeon and post the video of you actually winning. Its such a joke when you put only 2k item score for ecc/efw and people wont even consider taking you unless you have 3.5k for the 1600 or 4.2k for the 2k dungeons...
prove to us common folk your item scores on the dungeons means you can complete the dungeon with that item score!
You can have 5000 til VIP and he be an idiot in dungeon and a player with 2000 none VIP can using what he got like a God TIL PROVE NOTHING
It sounds to me like a lot of people here have forgotten how to play a game. I'm sorry if you spent a bunch of money/AD on character slots or whatever to build your army to farm AD. But just think how much more exciting it'll be to see that Horn of Blasting drop in eLoL? Cha-Ching!
Also, I've been playing about 6 months so am still "new," but this game is still a whole lot of fun. Get out there and enjoy it, stop worrying so much about what you have/don't have.
When players do math they lose this will cause the rest of the dihard players to leave
please help me to understand how this helps now I play a solo HR this is my earnings daily dungeon hr 3000 chest 3000 completion of 1 dungeon total 6000 ad new program several dungeons max 7200 ad pvp earn 4000 AD 4 matches now 4800ad max skirmishes 3 for 3000 and 3000 from completion total 6000 ad now multiple skirmishes for 7200ad max leadership task 17800 for my 1 character daily by logging in 3 times daily
daily before change 35800 Ad daily and I do log on and do this daily in around 1 hr
daily after changes with leadership role gone 7200 +7200+4800=19200ad less than tthe 24k ad you can refine ans a loss of 16600 ad a day the worst part is having to play an extra hr or so JUST to get that much before I can do the things for our SH or what I want to do
think again about cha-ching, if ad is cut back by this much your 1.2m horn of blasting will maybe go for 100k, who would want to spend more then 100k on 1 item if it will take them 3 months of "doing dailies" for ad? Unless they add a system where you can sell your junk drops for AD to vendors and remove gold.
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drartwhodentMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 305Arc User
I posted my disapproval earlier (page 6 or 7) but I have one more question. Why do you (Cryptic) feel it is okay for you to steal from me? I have spent real money on character slots and keys to open lockboxes specifically for leadership assets (over 1000 rusted boxes opened over almost 2 years) and now you want to make everything I have accumulated worthless. This is theft, pure and simple. Will you pay me (in AD) the going rate for all my heros and adventurers that you want to make useless? The going rate on the AH that they were at one minute before this post started please, not the drastically lowered prices that will be seen from everyone dumping theirs and undercutting each other on the AH. Maybe then I won't feel quite so violated. I don't mind buying from you, but when you steal from me it is another thing entirely.
It sounds to me like a lot of people here have forgotten how to play a game. I'm sorry if you spent a bunch of money/AD on character slots or whatever to build your army to farm AD. But just think how much more exciting it'll be to see that Horn of Blasting drop in eLoL? Cha-Ching!
Also, I've been playing about 6 months so am still "new," but this game is still a whole lot of fun. Get out there and enjoy it, stop worrying so much about what you have/don't have.
the price you would be able to sell it for will drop as well.
at the end of the day, an item's true worth is only what people would be prepared to pay for it. if everyone has considerably less AD, the the price you would be able to sell it for will be considerably less than it is now.
I've been actively playing for almost 2 years now, and a few months ago I hat to severely cut down my gaming ours do to getting up for work at 5:30 AM every single day. The only way I was able to keep up with all the changes and gear requirements was with my "leadership army" that I created while playing for almost 2 years, through the gateway. Then you took away the gateway, so in order to *try* and keep up I hat to log in daily to manually do professions for all my toons. Now you take that away too. The measly amount of AD you're graciously giving us as basicly charity is in no way going to be enough for anything, so I'm glad that in current standards I have pretty high end gear cause looks like this is what I'll be stuck with until my toons dust up and die away. Sorry newly leveled up GF, no shiny stuff for you.
Where are these 9 missing dungeons?: - Castle Never - Frozen Heart - Caverns of Karrundax - Lair of the Pirate King - Lair of the Mad Dragon - Cloak Tower - Throne of Idris - Spellplague Caverns - Dread Vault
Don't forget about Fardelver and Dwarf King Crypt.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
I saw comments like i have more ad than i need. Well about this for pve doesnt really matter even if you are low item level you can do content and have fun. GO play pvp vs those already earned their rank 12 enchants with leadership armies and come and say the same.
I'm seeing a trend in most of the comments. Almost everyone appeared to be using the professions to earn AD to get refining stones for their equipment. so why not have the professions just give people what they were using the AD to buy. and make it account bound.
Because there is no money in that for the devs.
Another simple option is to make all refining stones available in NPC vendors and cut the price by 75%. That would economically cut the bots out of the game. If someone still wants to spend 4.4M on a mount then so be it.
Most of these announced changes favour the wallet warriors in the end and will force casual players to spend real cash to keep up. Don't get me wrong - I'm not one of these "pay-to-win" whiners: there is no "win" in a game like this. But there is a real problem when the game becomes nearly impossible to play unless you spend real money. I feel very sorry for those players who have invested considerable amounts of money in leadership only to have that investment taken from them with no notice and little justification. If I had the money, I'd be interested to see if it's worth pursuing compensation. Sadly, I don't. Just a thought.
Unfortunately, the changes will do little to stop the bots. Simple scipts could solve the problem once and for all but the devs seem either unwilling or incapable of facing that problem.
I would like to say that I would wait with baited breath for the economy to stabilize but I'm afraid that would be suicide. So I't probably time up for me.
The best argument is the GMOP one. at 100k a pop and needing 5 for each upgrade rank past 10 and perfect well 24k ad a day x1 means you get to upgrade one piece out of 20 or so pieces of gear needing upgrade every 5 weeks lol. Ya your about to lose a ot of customers.
Simple. While it is often said "do not attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity" it is increasingly evident that this is a move meant to squeeze more Zen sales from the handful of remaining players before this thing crashes and burns.
a lot of people feel the same. The mythical "leadership botters" are nothing more than the wool pwe is pulling over everyones eyes as an excuse to do this.
We believe that simply playing content should get you your time currency, so we removed the daily quests and made things automatic. Now, simply play Dungeons, Skirmishes, and PvP, and you’ll receive significant bonus AD for completing the first 2 runs of each.
First, no one here but the company knows if the player base is growing or shrinking, so without hard numbers everyone can stop pretending they know what these and recent changes have done.
Second, they are trying to fix a problem, plain and simple. Would you prefer they do it the other way and let bots run rampant? Would that solve anything?
Lastly, this is a for profit company producing a for profit game. If they innovate and try new ways of making money, so be it. At least they still make it fun! I'd be happy to see old dungeons come back and like the new mods. I'm not going anywhere and still encourage friends to play.
I'm seeing a trend in most of the comments. Almost everyone appeared to be using the professions to earn AD to get refining stones for their equipment. so why not have the professions just give people what they were using the AD to buy. and make it account bound.
I think it's a strategic decision by the producer to make RP for artifact equipment as scarce as possible (nerf DH, nerf HE in IWD, Leadership lvl 24 task is latest and longest RP task, simple dailies in dr/sh/wod/iwd give not peridots/resonance stones ...). For some reason I don't understand, they gave up the war against enchantment botters, but they do everything to prohibit players to earn artifact RP. I would be very surprised if they let us earn more artifact RP with leadership tasks - neither bound nor unbound, because at the end they still hope to sell blood rubies in the zen shop.
I like that comment the one guy said about giving leadership drops that we players are saving up for, how about you do those changes and allow level 25 leadership quests to give GMoP's as a reward that are account bound?
I'm seeing a trend in most of the comments. Almost everyone appeared to be using the professions to earn AD to get refining stones for their equipment. so why not have the professions just give people what they were using the AD to buy. and make it account bound.
Yes, this is a great idea. Let the chest rewards give a small change of GMOPs/Wards. Also, give the invoking reward chests a small chance of a GMOP.
I really hate when people measure prices on a single method of gaining currency. If you all really only gained AD from leadership you deserve this nerf. Its 10x easier to farm RP items and sell them than it was to work up a farm over time. Shame on you all for trying to emulate the botter methods.
Comments
Do you think that to open the chest you need more skills then fly a MIG-21 and bombs everything flat all the time?
1. the dungeons chests should drop a much wider array of items
2. Salvage values should be and stay double; On average it's a net loss to buy keys out of the dungeon hour to earn then salvage unneeded items.
3. FIX THE FOUNDRY(real bosses,etc) AND REWARD CHESTS IN FOUNDRY SCOTT. I asked about this prior to module 5 on a live twitch session to which It was "happening after mod 5 went out". Instead you introduced stronghold. Your neglect of the tool is a total waste of the something that could be fantastic.
4. OPEN BACK UP THE CLOSED DUNGEONS AND MORE "NOW", like "RIGHT NOW" Scott. 3 epics?.... man.. what the hell where you thinking. "Would you like a cup of water, a cup of water, or wait.. we also have a cup of water."
5. There are accounts with backlogged AD for years. This won't fix AH as you want it to at a rate that will coincide with real player losses on available AD. A better answer might have been a rework of how AH works. Otherwise, you've just created market separation where only those holding the vast AD in game now will continue to do so by price setting every item in game, forever.. and that Scott, sucks. That sucks so bad I want to boot my rig and start playing in mud puddles with warm beer.
6. FIX ENCHANTMENTS- You've made it very clear that some enchantments are far more useful than others now. I't completely clear when you look at the seal prices for shards. They should all be equally useful and of value in various ways.
7. GMOP and Coal Wards ..something man. I've been with you guy since the beginning. I pray every day. I get coffers at regular intervals. I have one character of each class Scott. In my play time I've gotten 3 coal wards ever. The rest I purchased. This whole concept of GMOP is insane at 100k AD each.
8. After all this time I would have thought I would feel like my time in plus vested cash would yield a premium character and gear. It just hasn't when I finally was reaching rank 8 stones on a few characters and doing good, you introduced rank 12's and difficulty changes. My rank 7-8's are like rank 5's now. Honestly, It was huge slap in the face to many. The only thing more taxing was you turning repair kits into a gold sync. Now i stay perpetually broke with gold and beg like a pauper for kits in game. All my time, loyalty, and money in wasn't enough. Now if I don't farm Lathandar's sets on 8 characters, or buy 70 dollars in vip status i will never maintain any source of gold.. my incentives to spend have become blackmail to spend. I played happily for over many moons without blowing through 100's of kits a day Scott. This is and has been total BS since you made that change. Can you at least turn the repair rate sitting at the fire up to a repair a minute an injury? Something man. I'm getting boots out of parties over this.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
1 GMOP per day of casual play.
20-30k AD per hour.
3 skirms/dungeons/pvp in 1 hour.
8000 to 12000 AD per run.
So AD rewards need doubling.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
With rewards like this botters will have a field day
And rest of us will have a lag fest
They need to do a full AD wipe, take all AD from all accounts when they put this "fix" in so we are all on square one. That way all the botters wont be sitting on billions of AD (I happened to have a tad over 21m ad since I played for over 18months now) and yes Leadership was my main source of it. One of the best ways to make ad aside from Leadership was making alts from level 5 to 13 farming blacklake skrishmishes I made over 2.5m ad from those becuz I ran them during the bonus time...
Would I be upset if they did a full AD wipe to square us off? hell yes I would but it would be fair if they put this awful change in the game. Oh boy my 13 characters with level 25 leadership will get more xps... how fricken wonderful... I have my hunter (that was nerf'd over the last year to HAMSTER) with all rank 4 abilities (yes I play a lot) and I have 125 power points and when I level I get crapped on now since there isn't anything good after you unlocked all your points and keep leveling...
This game is becoming like road construction, every time I find an alternate path for fun, something gets triggered and it gets taken down! lol
oh by the way, game designers if you are truly reading this and you want to "fix" your game.. try this out:
if you require 1600 item score or 2000 item score for a dungeon, why don't you put on 1,600 or 2,000 item gear score gear and play the dungeon and post the video of you actually winning. Its such a joke when you put only 2k item score for ecc/efw and people wont even consider taking you unless you have 3.5k for the 1600 or 4.2k for the 2k dungeons...
prove to us common folk your item scores on the dungeons means you can complete the dungeon with that item score!
like for example make Blues lev 70 salvageable for a set amount
If blue alliance helmet gives 3000
Then blue lev 70 helmet of parry or smiting could give 1000 or 500
Make normal keys worth 1000 and epic 2000
So honest players can play get a drop and salvage it
TIL PROVE NOTHING
Also, I've been playing about 6 months so am still "new," but this game is still a whole lot of fun. Get out there and enjoy it, stop worrying so much about what you have/don't have.
please help me to understand how this helps now I play a solo HR this is my earnings daily
dungeon hr 3000 chest 3000 completion of 1 dungeon total 6000 ad new program several dungeons max 7200 ad
pvp earn 4000 AD 4 matches now 4800ad max
skirmishes 3 for 3000 and 3000 from completion total 6000 ad now multiple skirmishes for 7200ad max
leadership task 17800 for my 1 character daily by logging in 3 times daily
daily before change 35800 Ad daily and I do log on and do this daily in around 1 hr
daily after changes with leadership role gone 7200 +7200+4800=19200ad less than tthe 24k ad you can refine ans a loss of 16600 ad a day
the worst part is having to play an extra hr or so JUST to get that much before I can do the things for our SH or what I want to do
Why do you (Cryptic) feel it is okay for you to steal from me?
I have spent real money on character slots and keys to open lockboxes specifically for leadership assets (over 1000 rusted boxes opened over almost 2 years) and now you want to make everything I have accumulated worthless.
This is theft, pure and simple.
Will you pay me (in AD) the going rate for all my heros and adventurers that you want to make useless?
The going rate on the AH that they were at one minute before this post started please, not the drastically lowered prices that will be seen from everyone dumping theirs and undercutting each other on the AH.
Maybe then I won't feel quite so violated.
I don't mind buying from you, but when you steal from me it is another thing entirely.
PANIC!
at the end of the day, an item's true worth is only what people would be prepared to pay for it. if everyone has considerably less AD, the the price you would be able to sell it for will be considerably less than it is now.
The measly amount of AD you're graciously giving us as basicly charity is in no way going to be enough for anything, so I'm glad that in current standards I have pretty high end gear cause looks like this is what I'll be stuck with until my toons dust up and die away.
Sorry newly leveled up GF, no shiny stuff for you.
Another simple option is to make all refining stones available in NPC vendors and cut the price by 75%. That would economically cut the bots out of the game. If someone still wants to spend 4.4M on a mount then so be it.
Most of these announced changes favour the wallet warriors in the end and will force casual players to spend real cash to keep up. Don't get me wrong - I'm not one of these "pay-to-win" whiners: there is no "win" in a game like this. But there is a real problem when the game becomes nearly impossible to play unless you spend real money. I feel very sorry for those players who have invested considerable amounts of money in leadership only to have that investment taken from them with no notice and little justification. If I had the money, I'd be interested to see if it's worth pursuing compensation. Sadly, I don't. Just a thought.
Unfortunately, the changes will do little to stop the bots. Simple scipts could solve the problem once and for all but the devs seem either unwilling or incapable of facing that problem.
I would like to say that I would wait with baited breath for the economy to stabilize but I'm afraid that would be suicide. So I't probably time up for me.
Second, they are trying to fix a problem, plain and simple. Would you prefer they do it the other way and let bots run rampant? Would that solve anything?
Lastly, this is a for profit company producing a for profit game. If they innovate and try new ways of making money, so be it. At least they still make it fun! I'd be happy to see old dungeons come back and like the new mods. I'm not going anywhere and still encourage friends to play.
For some reason I don't understand, they gave up the war against enchantment botters, but they do everything to prohibit players to earn artifact RP. I would be very surprised if they let us earn more artifact RP with leadership tasks - neither bound nor unbound, because at the end they still hope to sell blood rubies in the zen shop.