Since you are removing leadership from the gateway...

shoogaboogaloo

Does that mean that you are going to make leadership and other crafting jobs a reasonable level of effort to max? Right now it takes like a year of nonstop leadership to max it legitimately.... are we just not allowed to use this? Why not take the feature out of the game all together.

I was theory crafting with my guild and it seems pretty surprising that you don't seem to understand the impact this will have on the economy... prices of things will go down, but making astral diamonds will be much harder for your lower geared players... meaning those of us without best in slot gear right now are pretty much <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> out of luck when it comes to trying to gear up. There is no reliable means to gain astral diamonds in the game and it has been a problem for a long time, but at least selling stuff to players that had lots of AD allowed us to close the income gap... but you have made it so that those top players aren't going to want to buy our stuff anymore... and nobody will ever get geared up again.

I wish you would think about what you are doing in this game sometimes... combating botting is a great idea.. but doing so without accepting the reason people would bot, or providing the necessary means to obtain things without botting is kind of sick. We can like no longer obtain Greater marks of potency from dungeons.... but they cost 100k... so my question to you is in what world is anybody supposed to obtain 500 marks of potency to get the gear to combat players that are already maxed...

vedran541

I think this is the only game in the world where only botters can make AD.

setimoselo

where is the source of information for a possible removal of leadership? I'm not gonna lie, if it goes...

shoogaboogaloo

setimoselo wrote: »

where is the source of information for a possible removal of leadership? I'm not gonna lie, if it goes...

You are out right? Same with about 20% of the player base... legitimate players are hurt by this too...

truckula

Patch notes for tomorrow. Its only being removed from gateway not game.

drkbodhi

It is in the patch notes... top of the page. Strum posted a link. I expect about a 30% drop in the player base over this ONE poor decision.

balthezar2

ONLY from gateway? Do you realize that people that have to work use the gateway to collect their leadership tasks? It's hard enough now with the added time to the tasks, now we have to be in exactly the right time to collect, or wait till tomorrow. They already made our AD income less by adding time to the tasks, now this...why not just take leadership out completely, if they want us to stop making any decent AD. Most people can't even max out the AD per day already.

thefabricant

Neverwinters economy in a nutshell: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/North–South_divide

The majority of the playerbase lives in the "south", has little to no income, no standard of living in the NWO economy and no way to compete with the "north" players, who exploit this fact to keep themselves all high and mighty.

This thread title reminds me of one from mod 4: Dear devs, from a serious player, please read.

I actually approve of this change. True, it will hurt both legit players and bots, but because of how badly it will destroy the games economy it will force a lot of fixes to be made in order to recover.

jugger71

Well at least I'll get some of my life back. With this change I'll have no reason to use Gateway again... Lol *sigh* and *rolls eyes*

karakla1

I have a problem with this change, or two, or three...
First is, i liked to login at the gateway and manage my 8 characters via the gateway. I did this on my smartphone because it is very handy to have a break at work and let my little servants fight another war for me (it was something really browsergame-esque that i liked)
Second, as a legit player i will lose AD income, nothing like i would generate no AD but it is 1/3 of my income that is gone because i used to login at my break at work to send my workers on a job.
Third, there is a high propability that the Bots use the next more profitable profession. Which mean they spam one market on the AH with cheap items only to get a hold on AD.

strumslinger

More information will be posted very soon. Leadership for Gateway is not going away completely. Please stand by.

tikiitorch

Actually, the official information is "It's going away, but it's OK, you can have a double AD weekend. All better now."

strumslinger

Blog has been posted: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9470123

tikiitorch

strumslinger wrote: »

Blog has been posted: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9470123

I feel really bad for you strumslinger. I mean you have to know this is a terrible decision (which I doubt you were responsible for making), but are forced to be the face of it for the community.

Someone should buy you a beer after days like these!

asterotg

We cant handlethe botters, so lets screw the legit players...

Guess what, botters will use scripts to log in and do leadership, legit players will either spent significantly more time grinding AD or leave, wise choice of action.

lwedar

add a way to queue tasks IN GAME and we won't be rioting. if not, well, this is going to go over very very poorly

karakla1

Honestly the step is understandable because hundreds of bots generating AD out of nothing in such a massive way it devalues your free2play currency. But it is still sad that i can't do leadership profession on my smartphone... but okay.

I see now, it is better that the bit AD i still earn has more value then a bit more AD that is a lot less value. And it has his ups. The prices for heroes are falling down like nothing before.

beckylunatic

I've seen people saying "oh, market prices will adjust accordingly", but most of the things that I wish to spend AD on are items where Cryptic has set the price, so perhaps it would also be wise to re-examine the fixed AD cost of various goods and services (mount/companion upgrade, transmuting gear, GMoP, cubes of augmentation... some of which are niceties of life and some of which are *mandatory purchases* to advance your character). You've already got many players who can't afford enough cubes to change their artifact weapon's random at-will away from one that they can't use (or in the case of the bugged Reaping Strike, broke their character).

Snark aside, @shoogaboogaloo does raise a valid point about the length of time it takes to level up Leadership. This is most expeditiously accomplished by repeatedly resetting tasks that run for 2-4 hours, and the training tasks never have a run time of more than 8 hours. Not being able to access Leadership in Gateway means the levelling structure of the profession should probably be rebuilt from the ground up. Lack of remote access also gives little incentive for owning Adventurers or Heroes. Why run tasks faster if you can't change them?

beckylunatic

karakla1 wrote: »

And it has his ups. The prices for heroes are falling down like nothing before.

What good are heroes if you don't have access to change the tasks they were doing faster? That's why people are selling them off. Might as well just have footmen.

drkbodhi

That is the solution? It seems more like a reaction. The AD abuse and the downfall of the economy has gotten worse in M6. It is all based on the Econ and Business 101 premise of Supply and Demand. They supply of AD has essentially dried up compared to M5 standards and the demand for more AD has gone through the roof. Hence the increase in the botting. Remove the availability of a currency and keep the need for a currency at the same level... a black market will always arise. This is exactly the same thing as Prohibition in the US during the 20's.

This happened in WoW... and I brought this up during the first days of M6... AD and AH farmers will ruin the economy. With the loss of the LP dailies and higher Salvage refunds and the cost of items remaining the same... created a mini AD recession maybe even an 'AD Depression'. What has created this botting issue is probably more than the AD farming or RP farming... but the ZAX. Sorry... but we all know it is true... we just do not want to admit it.

I wont discuss all of the possible exploits on here as I do not want to make this any worse for me. As I see it there are a minimum of 2 loopholes within the ZAX... both creating a cycle of profit.

I do not even have a college degree... and I know this because I am a "knowledge sponge". I have educated myself far deeper than any Bachelors program ever could.

You want the botting to end? Remove the need-based economy. How do you do that...? Hella rewards from running t1 and t2 content and in SH, do the same for guild-based quests. Make the rewards group related. Make it mandatory to have 3 to 5 players to enter mini-dungeons. Which you essentially have done with your upgrades. Remove the RP rewards from the dailies and add them to the mini-DD runs. If a botter wants these items... make them work their asses off for them.

Will that alienate the Solo players? Nope... because I am sure they run content with parties... when they need to. I also make a suggestion to all of the solo players... make an alliance with a guild that shares your ideals. I am not saying join the guild... I am suggesting that if they need someone for something... you are a go to name for all of the guild.

Also... allow for guild alliances with individual players. Meaning that 'X' number of @handles are allowed to assist the guild by running content on their SH map. I am sure that every solo player would have no problem with that.

mutjinninja

strumslinger wrote: »

Blog has been posted: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9470123

You realize a double AD weekend doesn't help anyone? So now we can get 20k AD a day from Rhix and if we give up our lives for that weekend and grind skirmishes and dungeons till our fingers and eyes bleed, we'll still maybe walk away with 300k? Which is nothing in this economy. You've made good gear and RP so hard to get, that 300,000 AD is nothing. So you added thaum stones to sharandar and bottom row RP to dread ring. Woo. Where are our resonance dailies? You know, the artifact equipment that actually matters and severely impacts gameplay..where's the RP in dailies for that?

This half*** bandaid solution with double AD for a few days does NOTHING to fix the damage the devs have just wraught. GG
​​

kvet

Wow. I routinely use the gateway in the morning before I head to work to reset my tasks while having my morning cuppa. This makes it questionable whether I'll be able to reset my tasks 3 days a week (I only have to go into the office 3 days a week)... That's a list of around 360k AD or more a week to me and I only walk my alts once a day as is. This change makes me very unhappy.

This feels a bit like a bandaid fix... A bit hamfisted just like the account limit was... Something that maybe address a symptom but doesn't actually do anything to fix the root cause. Such a shame.

Perhaps next time there's some major issue that requires a nuclear option to "fix" it would be useful to as players/customers for some options? The community team could certain make a list of people who would be able to provide sound feedback under NDA if there's a worry about making something public...

Changes like this seriously undermine the game and honestly a 2x AD weekend isn't really much compensation.. Can I make over 600k AD in that weekend? That will covert losses for one week - how about a million to cover the following week?

I look forward to hearing more about AD source adjustments.

generaldiomedes

It was only a matter of time, really. I could not imagine a more scriptable interface, and probably not just for AD.

Too bad, though - I really enjoy logging into the Gateway. Perhaps up the rewards in SCA (250AD is nothing). Oh wait, someone will figure out a way to bot that too.

Damn bots.

gom8

am i the only one that giggled at the Carrot(double AD event) on these changes??
most likely this is only going to hurt legit players and "small time" script kiddies.. the real botters (gold/item/ad sellers) are simply going to write programs to do the SAME THING in game as they already do on the gateway, IF they hadn't already written them years back when the game first launched and there WAS no gateway.....

kvet

If they blocked the ability to transfer AD via the ZAX, I'd probably walk away from NW. As a F2p player, using leadership is the only way to generate enough income to operate at a fun level. Using the AH to transfer at a loss is unacceptable and would be akin to a tax. At that point they might as well disable all trading like Skyforge (one of the main reasons I ruled out playing it). It would truly be the last straw.

On the other hand, I frankly care nothing about AD refinement via the gateway, I rarely use it and see it as a convienience only.

godofallods

This is what needs to be implemented, it stops the bots and lets the players use it legit!

cjh1983

strumslinger wrote: »

Blog has been posted: http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9470123

strumslinger wrote: »

More information will be posted very soon. Leadership for Gateway is not going away completely. Please stand by.

Please tell me there isn't so much naivety to think the abusers won't just do the same thing in-game?

Really bone-headed decisions. If you want to prevent abuse, increase the incentive to use it the right way. Make it easier to manage and collect. Especially after this, there's no reason, I shouldn't be able to log in game and click one button to collect and re-queue.

syrics9

I've been working a lot of overtime lately and haven't logged in other then to do a daily. I finally got my main to 25 leadership this week. ...

you know ... it doesn't matter i was going to write stuff down to try and express my frustration and how much money I've spent the past few months but it truly doesn't matter.

I'm just tired