Well thing is, I can speak from experience, I'm not pulling facts out of thin air. I have been among the top HRs since, uh, some point in m6, when I came back to the game. I played with the best and against the best. Since like 50% of good pvpers left with m7 release, I mostly talk about mod6 (end of mod6). You might not be a scrub, but then you wouldn't be talking like it's near impossible to kill an HR. As far as items/gear I suggested you use, well, most pvpers have extra enchants that they switch in certain situations, for example most CWs will have TEB/TNeg and swap them around depending on what they need. You surely know WHY trapper is quite strong when at a numbers disadvantage, since you have each character leveled up to 70. Still, 2 people with same gear/experience will ALWAYS kill the HR (well if it's like 2 DCs they won't lol). Also, you probably didn't notice, I said "HR still has the advantage in that fight", even though it's not a deal breaker. There are CWs that can go even as good as almost 50/50 with top HRs (at least WERE in mod6, not sure if they still play). Then, you said you can't one shot when you can't move/cast/whatever. Guess what, that's why you bring a CC breaker/TEB.
As I side note, I wonder who that HR was, the one that made you post here.
I stopped reading ladys post, when I saw, his/her CW was with an OP and still was killed by the HR… omg… and the HR killed even the OP? Really?
As gweddry stated, HR vs CW matchup is the ONLY favorable one for the HR.
As a matter of fact, only the undergeared or underskilled players are actually complaining about HR, because they have no clue to play and no clue about balance and game mechanics. An opponent with more than 1k IL and the right enchants will wreck you. An opponent will wreck you also if you are fighting in a bad matchup, which is negationCW vs elvenB HR. I eat any BiS CW alive when he has negation slotted (maybe it was me in that gg match? :-D)
The true state of HRs is a very poor one. The CWs and SWs are the only prey we have left.
vs OPs: lol yeah… impossible to kill
Vs GWF: extremely difficult because of current dmg and some bugged self heals I cant discuss on these forums.
Vs DC: impossible to kill heal DC but at least stall; possible death against DPS DC
Vs GF: extremely difficult, depending mostly on ping and the GFs use of targetlock shield + BiS GF can almost on rotate BiS HRs
Vs TRs: manageable, but still very difficult because of the dmg of daggers and the mobility of TRs. Played smart, the HR will never catch the TR consistently.
Just for explaination: My HR can still wreck 99% of the playerbase, but simply due the fact that most people have either worse gear or have less expierence than me.
In a fight on equal terms gear- and skillwise, the above vs.-list represents the currenty meta for HRs in 1vs1 situations.
Btw: yes, these daze mechanics are kinda lame. I want my mod2 or mod4 HR back, but if you remove dazes from HR, the class becomes worse than a companion… which speaks for itself how bad HRs are right now except for the daze mechanics. Anybody just try to play archer or melee HR these days… good luck LOL
gweddry... Either can't read, is trolling, or mains a HR for PvP. I already stated that I'm not a scrub when it comes to PvP. I can hold my own. My gear is NOT substandard and is BiS currently outside of the new SH stuff which I don't think anyone has, barring some kind of exploit. NO one should be "very strong" when outnumbered. If you have 2+ opponents beating on you all with the same/or better gear, with as much/or even more experience than you, outside of divine intervention and hitting the jackpot, the odds of you dying to them should be fairly good. You're also telling me that I need to get, max out, and use 1 item/artifact in order to try (try being the word) and counter one class/build? How does that make any sort of sense to any sane person? Not to mention the fact that all the HR has to do is stealth for the few seconds needed to let the CC immunity expire. You're also pulling facts out of thin air. Top CWs can match and deal with top HRs? Seriously? I've yet to see this happen and I PvP more than my fair share. By the way, how the heck is anyone supposed to 1-shot anyone else when they're perma-locked and can't move, attack, or even see their opponents?
jhpnw... All you did was strengthen the issues all these folks that don't main HRs in PvP are stating. You just started PvPing with mod6, yet you can beat teams of players? You also, need to learn to read. I have the gear and I have the skills, as I already stated. You learned strategy? This "strategy" involves using a broken class/build in PvP? Wow. That's some strategy.
Also, in case you're wondering, I have a passing familiarity with all the classes due to having leveled 1 character of each up to max. So even though I'm don't know them inside and out, I'm not some kind fool talking about something I know nothing about, when it comes to classes.
lady808 my post was not aimed at your comment I have also though highly of your post it was more a plea that if I can go to a good place from starting @ level 70 then any one can do it especially as weak as the HR class is when under geared. I detest the perma stun being used in PVP Its a cheesy crutch for those who choose not to have to work for their wins. MY success is not from a broken class but help from others like sandstorm, Raylar Raydan and all other on wilds forum also I play 2 to 4 hrs a day have over a 1500 pvp matches under my belt I did spend money on VIP status and ran hundreds of HEs in IWD so all my items are epic I have negation and plague fire and thru hrs of grinding enchants level 9 to 10 I also spent hrs on the preview fine tuning my feats and powers and boons so don't take away from my hard work and attribute it to a broken class you are wrong there, but still You are intitled to your opinion. Other than Perma stun The HR damage is weak and needs a fix. I don't know a legit HR that would not trade PS for more survivability and DPS. MY opinion is once negation sales peaked another BIS enchant was needed and Perma stun was born everyone went to Elven battle creating new sales
you all mention elven battle enchant...against hunter and osterdrache eats every CW with negation enchant...so what do you recomment in case nor T negation nor TEB works against hunter, old SF ?
what does this enchant help anyone since about 99% of all HR abuse these perma daze/stun mechanic (yes gweddry/razorblade, you stated you do not some time ago, right, or did you change your mind?)
I use Negation with worlock and GWF, i am not hoplessly lost to the Hunter due to dots+CC from warlock and the best way to deal with them is high mobility imo GWF can pop unstoppable , and as far as I can remmeber it is not interrupted but i normally do not meat lots of highend hunter, there are not that much left
It's Razorleaf by the way and I never said I'm not trapper; I use crushing roots of course. HR is completely and utterly useless without that. Good CWs will use TEB against hunters. That creates more pressure on the HR since CW can more or less one shot with repel/ice knife/disintegrate and something, therefore HR has to play more defensively in order to try to dodge that. CW with negation will usually die to HR, only thing that can really save them is Oghma.
PS.: Once again, while I don't think much has changed with m7 release, in my posts I come from end of m6. I have yet to do 1v1s with top CWs in this mod.
We (good pvp HRs) aren't defending "perma" stun or whatever you call it these days. We would love to get rid of it and get buffed in dps and survivability. I just said that without this stupid mechanic, we are useless. FAR worse than SW. Pretty much the same thing will happen once TEB+roots bug is fixed. That is why we don't want to rely on such a dumb designed feat/class feature combination.
But..HRs have been saying the exact same thing for quite a while. Not only people still have the wrong idea of us defending it, but devs apparently don't care. Not that they ever had.
1 - Well, no ofense, but you all sounds like defending it .
Speaking for myself, I hate this mechanic. Not only it makes HR vs HR skilless and RNG based, it is obnoxious to play against. Give me more damage, better survivability and bug fixes (like hindering strike glitching out, going on cooldown without having any effect or swiftness stopping working for no apparent reason for an entire match) and I will gladly give up this HAMSTER.
Speaking for myself, I hate this mechanic. Not only it makes HR vs HR skilless and RNG based, it is obnoxious to play against. Give me more damage, better survivability and bug fixes (like hindering strike glitching out, going on cooldown without having any effect or swiftness stopping working for no apparent reason for an entire match) and I will gladly give up this HAMSTER.
Then do visit The Wilds forum and try to make some changes. In my case I'm trying to get the devs notice the problems with the HR in general, and especially with the Archery path.
The thing is, the situation you HRs are going through is the exact same thing TRs went through (and to an extent every other class is going through as well). On one hand you have a class that's half-baked and lacking in so many areas that it is thoroughly inefficient and cumbersome to play with. On the other hand, you have the devs giving that class a thoughtlessly, brainlessly, cluelessly overpowered "compensation" which is so powerful, that it offsets and hides all the initial problems with that class and confuses the people on just exactly which point that said class, deserves criticism.
So unless good HR players make these pointers out more vividly, usually the rest of the players just remain content about the present situation, and will continue to defend this broken, cheesy mechanic, which just spreads animosity amongst the players.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
We as players seem to never learn that the nevewinter Devs don't fix classes they just nerf the class feature that creates an up roar once it has reached the point of every one spent money and changed major enchants to counter it . Perma Stun is mostly an annoyance for The better players and a cheesy crutch for weak or lazy players who doubt there own abilities. I would never go to DEvs ask for anyfix to any class do to I would rather adapt than lose that class all together. I think all the better HRs feel this way about permaCC with the HR. jhp
same with warlock and damnation path, no fix but the only way to keep up in PVE, bc nothing else works suffizient until now nothing than promises to be aware of the situation and working on solutions, however they might look like, everyone is waiting for the disaster to come , only to remember what happend by buffing TR´s in mod 5 PVP stays problematic for the class in case of no option to deal with high piercing damage like SE , you eat it all
I don't use it nor do most of theBetter HRs.its not needed but alot use that as the excuse when they get schooled by a HR I get pms about this saying I use the green perma stun against them and they hope iget banned for using it. They think that cordon or constrict are permastun even though you only controlled a few seconds and I dropped 3cordons on the wholeteam sitting on horses behind the node from forest ghost. Seem most want to accuse and make excuses rather than facts of issue. The only one who seems to want class to Improve is kweassa Others just complain and complain never offer better idea Jhp My name in game is aravein and I run gg and dom between 5 & 7 if you need lesson on how to play with out perms daze and still win
Every single good(top) HR uses it. This is no double standard or whatever. I prefer being able to play premades with crushing roots over dying to everything that isn't pug without them.
Lmao so many silly ppl in this thread. OFC all the good HRs think its cheese and dont want to play the HR like that, but tbh there is NO other way atm to play an HR succesfully in DOM.
I offer 10m to any Hr winning against gwf/tr/GF/dc/OP of my choice. If you not, u only have to do one thing: come this thread and post, how full of cr… it is with false assumptions. M
for the pms I got I never said HR don't use crushing roots Crushing roots is a good feature and not the issue. There are 2 separate issues at work here one is crushing roots normally will daze players for less than a second . The second is a bug that when you use certain rotations the rooting cools down instantly . Because of a broken proct another player can be rooted constantly. In original test I was rooted by this for 17 seconds straight. Most of the player classes in PVP has same type ability to control someone just not like the encounter spam bug that allows instant cool down of rooting encounters when using certain combo of encounters allowing you to use ten encounters as fast as you can pull the trigger. If that was fixed then the hunter ranger would not be able to continue to full rotate daze due to some cool down would occur and a BIS hunter ranger using this is deadly against any class. This needs fixing. Just don't call for Crushing roots nerf its not the issue. I usually stay off the subject of bugs because it make more players aware of it. jhp
I play a hr and have since i started(mod 2) and as of today i switched my enchants to another toon because it is really not fun anymore playing a trapper. I would change paths yet in my mind there is no other viable path. Perma stunning can be fun for a while but then it becomes a strict series of mechanical motions and in the end its not a fair or fun fight.
Which is wht the HR community themselves need to organize, or at least gather a consensus to submit to the devs on which points exactly, the HR needs a fix.
The more HRs defend this chitty mechanic, the more the HR exists with all its inefficiencies and lackluster capabilities, and the more animosity is spread between HRs and other players.
Simply put, both the HR players, and non-HR players, need to cooperate in a consensus that the HR needs better combat mechanics, one that does not rely on a broken 'compensation' mechanic that does nothing but anger people.
Try a path that is not a Trapper in PvP and observe the problems you run into, and immediately anyone can get it why the Trapper HRs persist that they need some kind of CC mechanic to survive. For the last 3 months I've been trying to make Archery work, in serious terms, not just for casual playing and trolling. It's not even an 'uphill battle' -- it's 'climbing a reverse inclined surface with your bare hands'.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Comments
As I side note, I wonder who that HR was, the one that made you post here.
As gweddry stated, HR vs CW matchup is the ONLY favorable one for the HR.
As a matter of fact, only the undergeared or underskilled players are actually complaining about HR, because they have no clue to play and no clue about balance and game mechanics. An opponent with more than 1k IL and the right enchants will wreck you. An opponent will wreck you also if you are fighting in a bad matchup, which is negationCW vs elvenB HR.
I eat any BiS CW alive when he has negation slotted (maybe it was me in that gg match? :-D)
The true state of HRs is a very poor one. The CWs and SWs are the only prey we have left.
vs OPs: lol yeah… impossible to kill
Vs GWF: extremely difficult because of current dmg and some bugged self heals I cant discuss on these forums.
Vs DC: impossible to kill heal DC but at least stall; possible death against DPS DC
Vs GF: extremely difficult, depending mostly on ping and the GFs use of targetlock shield + BiS GF can almost on rotate BiS HRs
Vs TRs: manageable, but still very difficult because of the dmg of daggers and the mobility of TRs. Played smart, the HR will never catch the TR consistently.
Just for explaination: My HR can still wreck 99% of the playerbase, but simply due the fact that most people have either worse gear or have less expierence than me.
In a fight on equal terms gear- and skillwise, the above vs.-list represents the currenty meta for HRs in 1vs1 situations.
Btw: yes, these daze mechanics are kinda lame. I want my mod2 or mod4 HR back, but if you remove dazes from HR, the class becomes worse than a companion… which speaks for itself how bad HRs are right now except for the daze mechanics.
Anybody just try to play archer or melee HR these days… good luck LOL
as always hope to see you in PVP
jhp
aravein
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/neverwinter/#/discussion/1200960/please-fix-the-elven-battle-vs-thorned-roots-bug
what does this enchant help anyone since about 99% of all HR abuse these perma daze/stun mechanic (yes gweddry/razorblade, you stated you do not some time ago, right, or did you change your mind?)
I use Negation with worlock and GWF, i am not hoplessly lost to the Hunter due to dots+CC from warlock and the best way to deal with them is high mobility imo
GWF can pop unstoppable , and as far as I can remmeber it is not interrupted
but i normally do not meat lots of highend hunter, there are not that much left
PS.: Once again, while I don't think much has changed with m7 release, in my posts I come from end of m6. I have yet to do 1v1s with top CWs in this mod.
I just said that without this stupid mechanic, we are useless. FAR worse than SW. Pretty much the same thing will happen once TEB+roots bug is fixed. That is why we don't want to rely on such a dumb designed feat/class feature combination.
But..HRs have been saying the exact same thing for quite a while. Not only people still have the wrong idea of us defending it, but devs apparently don't care. Not that they ever had.
The thing is, the situation you HRs are going through is the exact same thing TRs went through (and to an extent every other class is going through as well). On one hand you have a class that's half-baked and lacking in so many areas that it is thoroughly inefficient and cumbersome to play with. On the other hand, you have the devs giving that class a thoughtlessly, brainlessly, cluelessly overpowered "compensation" which is so powerful, that it offsets and hides all the initial problems with that class and confuses the people on just exactly which point that said class, deserves criticism.
So unless good HR players make these pointers out more vividly, usually the rest of the players just remain content about the present situation, and will continue to defend this broken, cheesy mechanic, which just spreads animosity amongst the players.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
jhp
until now nothing than promises to be aware of the situation and working on solutions, however they might look like, everyone is waiting for the disaster to come , only to remember what happend by buffing TR´s in mod 5
PVP stays problematic for the class in case of no option to deal with high piercing damage like SE , you eat it all
Jhp
My name in game is aravein and I run gg and dom between 5 & 7 if you need lesson on how to play with out perms daze and still win
If you not, u only have to do one thing: come this thread and post, how full of cr… it is with false assumptions. M
HR without daze is a dead class.
http://forum.arcgames.com/neverwinter/discussion/1203363/3-bugs-to-report-bronzewood-elven-control-bonus#latest
jhp
The more HRs defend this chitty mechanic, the more the HR exists with all its inefficiencies and lackluster capabilities, and the more animosity is spread between HRs and other players.
Simply put, both the HR players, and non-HR players, need to cooperate in a consensus that the HR needs better combat mechanics, one that does not rely on a broken 'compensation' mechanic that does nothing but anger people.
Try a path that is not a Trapper in PvP and observe the problems you run into, and immediately anyone can get it why the Trapper HRs persist that they need some kind of CC mechanic to survive. For the last 3 months I've been trying to make Archery work, in serious terms, not just for casual playing and trolling. It's not even an 'uphill battle' -- it's 'climbing a reverse inclined surface with your bare hands'.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Without crushing roots and related feats. Good luck.
And no, I dont want a nerf to dazes. You guys are delusional. The dazes are the ONLY thing that makes HR at least playable.
I am saying it again:
Even with crushing roots HR is loosing to GWF/GF/DC/OP/TR
Sorry if your opinion is biased because you are undergeared or/and less expirienced.