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Can you explain why HR perma-roots\daze are still going on?

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  • jarecstephjarecsteph Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    HR daze should be remove completely ASAP, rooting is more than enough and a great advantage but should be tone down a lot.
  • crimpatulcrimpatul Member Posts: 197
    edited July 2015
    jarecsteph wrote: »
    HR daze should be remove completely ASAP, rooting is more than enough and a great advantage but should be tone down a lot.

    Yeah, nerf the only viable path of HRs until you can kill them without effort using your CW. All the CW's powers are right? Nice POV.

    BTW in the past NCL CW and TR dominated the top 1000. One of the best KD ratio is from CWs.

    Does the CWs powers ignores tenacity? No QQ threads for that?

    Whats the next class to nerf for you? You are openning a lot of threads asking to nerf another classes. What do you intend?

    Lucan, the 4,2 CW that didnt get into the top 40 CWs *

    WjNFZZT.png

    KyOYNty.png

    * http://www.arcgames.com/en/games/neverwinter/news/detail/9357303-neverwinter:-combat-league-leaderboards
    Post edited by crimpatul on
  • jarecstephjarecsteph Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    You will surely learn to use your other stuff, now you only go for easy kills.

    Last mode TR permadaze was doing the same and they add the same argument. They nerf daze and look where TR are now, they are certainly not useless.

    It will be the same for HR just a balance character that will have to work hard as we all do to win. No easy win anymore!
  • crimpatulcrimpatul Member Posts: 197
    edited July 2015
    Man, I played archery in pvp for 2 years, dont tell me that I go for the easy s h i t.

    The only one that want easy s h i t is you, so maybe you can get into the top 40 lol. Stop opening threads asking to nerf another classes.

    Top 100 Stats of the NCL

    ingame_leaderboard_zpsjiuvsjg5.png

    24 CWs versus 12 HRs.

    All my respect and admiration for the SW and the DCs
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  • jarecstephjarecsteph Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Lucan, the 4,2 CW that didnt get into the top 40 CWs *


    I wasn’t even playing at the time (some match maybe), I began playing like 1 1\2 weeks after the event began.

    And for your information I was top page 3 at a point last mod first of all CW and with over 3,800 board pages at the time, so.



    Post edited by jarecsteph on
  • jarecstephjarecsteph Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    crimpatul wrote: »
    Man, I played archery in pvp for 2 years, dont tell me that I go for the easy s h i t.

    The only one that want easy s h i t is you, so maybe you can get into the top 40 lol. Stop opening threads asking to nerf another classes.

    Top 100 Stats of the NCL

    ingame_leaderboard_zpsjiuvsjg5.png

    24 CWs versus 12 HRs.

    All my respect and admiration for the SW and the DCs

    There is no many HR anymore so that's the only reason.
  • jarecstephjarecsteph Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    It’s always the same king of insult when a class are not willing to let go of the not normal unbalance stuff they have.
  • crimpatulcrimpatul Member Posts: 197
    edited July 2015
    jarecsteph wrote: »
    crimpatul wrote: »
    Man, I played archery in pvp for 2 years, dont tell me that I go for the easy s h i t.

    The only one that want easy s h i t is you, so maybe you can get into the top 40 lol. Stop opening threads asking to nerf another classes.

    Top 100 Stats of the NCL

    ingame_leaderboard_zpsjiuvsjg5.png

    24 CWs versus 12 HRs.

    All my respect and admiration for the SW and the DCs

    There is no many HR anymore so that's the only reason.

    Yeah, all the people must play TRs and CWs. Maybe there is only 1 SW because its very underpowered and there are very few of them doing pvp and its not popular.

    I still wonder why there are 24 cws in the top 100, despite TRs, another classes are at half or less than that.

    CWs have unbalanced stuff and you dont QQ for that. Stop being hypocrite. You are opening threads for all the classes you have problems fighting for. Seriously man, stop it.


  • crimpatulcrimpatul Member Posts: 197
    edited July 2015
    jarecsteph wrote: »
    Lucan, the 4,2 CW that didnt get into the top 40 CWs *


    I wasn’t even playing at the time (some match maybe), I began playing like 1 1\2 weeks after the event began.

    And for your information I was top page 3 at a point last mod first of all CW and with over 3,800 board pages at the time, so.



    Yes, confirmed. You are a legend in your own mind.

    1 week after the event start is enough to classify in any page (near 1 month with NCL up). There were players with 300 matches or another ones with less than 100.

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  • jarecstephjarecsteph Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    crimpatul wrote: »
    jarecsteph wrote: »
    Lucan, the 4,2 CW that didnt get into the top 40 CWs *


    I wasn’t even playing at the time (some match maybe), I began playing like 1 1\2 weeks after the event began.

    And for your information I was top page 3 at a point last mod first of all CW and with over 3,800 board pages at the time, so.



    Yes, confirmed. You are a legend in your own mind.

    1 week after the event start is enough to classify in any page (near 1 month with NCL up). There were players with 300 matches or another ones with less than 100.

    I simply didn't play for it. At the time I was king of quitting playing the game because I was tired of all the nonsense.

    But you are not a very respectful person. And your comments are out of place.

    And you can't change the fact that I was top page 3 at a point last mod first of all CW and with over 3,800 board pages at the time, and that's it.


  • crimpatulcrimpatul Member Posts: 197
    edited July 2015
    jarecsteph wrote: »
    crimpatul wrote: »
    jarecsteph wrote: »
    Lucan, the 4,2 CW that didnt get into the top 40 CWs *


    I wasn’t even playing at the time (some match maybe), I began playing like 1 1\2 weeks after the event began.

    And for your information I was top page 3 at a point last mod first of all CW and with over 3,800 board pages at the time, so.



    Yes, confirmed. You are a legend in your own mind.

    1 week after the event start is enough to classify in any page (near 1 month with NCL up). There were players with 300 matches or another ones with less than 100.

    I simply didn't play for it. At the time I was king of quitting playing the game because I was tired of all the nonsense.

    But you are not a very respectful person. And your comments are out of place.

    And you can't change the fact that I was top page 3 at a point last mod first of all CW and with over 3,800 board pages at the time, and that's it.


    You played enough to score the 255 but not enough to be in the top 40 cw. ?????

    LOL. I would like to check how many matches did you play, because this stinks a lot.

    I dont change facts, I just expose that you have 4,2 k and you scored in the NCL extremely low for your IL/gear.

    You are requesting nerfs for classes in public, wich is not allowed in the forums. You are not following the rules. You are exposing yourself to anothers so expect to be discussed for it, and my commects about you are just FACTS. Lukan 4,2 255 lol

    From today you are for me 4,2 255. Just two numbers.

    BTW respect is earned, not given. You cant prettend that your comments be respected when you are asking to destroy classes in the forums.

    Post edited by crimpatul on
  • crimpatulcrimpatul Member Posts: 197
    edited July 2015
    macjae wrote: »
    crimpatul wrote: »
    jarecsteph wrote: »
    BTW in the past NCL CW and TR dominated the top 1000. One of the best KD ratio is from CWs.

    Here's top 15 from each class at one point in the NCL:

    KtNNFw8.jpg

    CW k/d ratio is middle of the pack -- far behind OPs, TRs and GWFs. Hardly "one of the best" ratios by class.

    And as for dominating the top 1,000, one factor to keep in mind for that is that there are probably more well-geared CWs around than any other class owing to other imbalances (CWs having been the kings of dungeons for so long).
    Conversely, other classes may be underrepresented for the same reason: GFs are very strong in PvP at the moment, but there aren't a lot of geared ones around compared to other classes due to GFs being weak in both PvE and PvP for long stretches of the game in the past.

    CW average rank: 24, the best of all. No comments about nerf for CWs, just for another classes.

    Please... xD
  • jarecstephjarecsteph Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    morenthar wrote: »
    jarecsteph wrote: »
    You will surely learn to use your other stuff, now you only go for easy kills.

    Last mode TR permadaze was doing the same and they add the same argument. They nerf daze and look where TR are now, they are certainly not useless.

    It will be the same for HR just a balance character that will have to work hard as we all do to win. No easy win anymore!

    The "perma" daze you refer to applied to players, such as yourself, who couldn't adjust to it. While you were busy bitching about it, other CWs were adjusting to counter it. You were just being a HAMSTER about the fact that a Scoundrel using gap closers could compete with you. Most of that time, they were out of stealth.

    God forbid the time when an a CW actually has to adapt instead of relying on pure shock and awe. Your point about the current HR is fair, but like the TRs last mod, you don't want a fair fix. You want to destroy the class.

    So if you want to be respected for your opinions on the game, not your flashy gear, it would behoove you to mention a balanced fix, not a class destroying nerf.

    The fact is, the HR lock-down IS pure HAMSTER. It's the cheesiest cheesball way of killing yet. I hate it. That being said, if the Dev team is unwilling to make compensatory changes to the HR, I would rather them not touch the class at all. We don't need a useless class running around.



    That's bulls.. just stop your annoying nonsense and HAMSTER talking. Parma stuff as to end and will see after if HR can't adapt and learned to play differently without the permaroot\daze abuse.

    And the only thing I want is to have equal and balance fights against all characters that as the same gear level and nothing else. I don’t want to nerf ore anything I just want balance and fun fights. And not moving 95% of a fight is not my definition of it.
  • jarecstephjarecsteph Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    macjae wrote: »
    crimpatul wrote: »
    jarecsteph wrote: »
    BTW in the past NCL CW and TR dominated the top 1000. One of the best KD ratio is from CWs.

    Here's top 15 from each class at one point in the NCL:

    KtNNFw8.jpg

    CW k/d ratio is middle of the pack -- far behind OPs, TRs and GWFs. Hardly "one of the best" ratios by class.

    And as for dominating the top 1,000, one factor to keep in mind for that is that there are probably more well-geared CWs around than any other class owing to other imbalances (CWs having been the kings of dungeons for so long).
    Conversely, other classes may be underrepresented for the same reason: GFs are very strong in PvP at the moment, but there aren't a lot of geared ones around compared to other classes due to GFs being weak in both PvE and PvP for long stretches of the game in the past.

    I think you are right
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    edited July 2015
    Look here, boyos (or maybe gals, too). It's really enough, this drama. I've seen this sheet happen in mod5 where Luc brings out a noose and demands hang all the scoundrels, and things happened exactly that way, for the worse. In the end it did nothing but drive every TR player into the sabo path and just created a nightmare in mod6.

    There are two sides of the issue, and both of them are right.
    (1) The HR has NOTHING without the permastun meta
    (2) The permastun is systematical bullsheet and deserves no place in the game


    ■ As for (1), I'd recommend Luc builds a HR himself and I DARE him to try and come up a working PvP build that does not use Crushing Roots, and that does not use even a single point into Trapper path. Hey, I've tried it. I'm still trying to make it work. Guess what. It doesn't. You think SWs are weak? Try a HR build that doesn't use Crushing Roots.

    ■ As for (2), try fighting some of the more renowned HR players in a class without CC-breakers. Doesn't matter if you have Elven Battle or not. Nothing helps. Nothing works. Doesn't even have to be a good HR player. Just have someone that can manage a basic root-rotation and that's just about to have you rendered into a combat-dummy in the game.


    The above facts are NOT mutually exclusive. They both point out to one thing: HRs need a redesign or a tweak in how they fight. Some of the "problematic" mechanics of past mods have been removed. But then the devs make their signature move of "add in even WORSE thing to cover up all the flaws of the class". Boy have we seen that happen a LOT since launch. A class is broken and overpowered in a certain ways. Then the OP stuff gets removed, seemingly exposing how flawed the class is fundamentally, but then they add in a mother-of-all-overpowered stuff that just covers up all those flaws and turns the class into a walking heap of bulsheetness...

    Then of course, its the same story all over again. Proponents of the class don't see the fundamental flaws of their own class. They just want that bullsheet mechanic untouched so they can use it. The same with the opponents of that mechanic. They don't see how weak and frail the class is designed. They don't care if the removal of the mechanic is going to totally shut the class down and send it down the drain.

    Don't you people get it? You are BOTH missing the point. Both of those POV points out to a single fundamental point of the class. You are missing it. DON'T.

    The current meta of HR combat caused by Crushing Roots and a few of the Trapper feats, is simply utter krap and bulsheet. This needs to be removed. Yes. But at the same time, the HR class is so fundamentally weak that a removal of such feats causes a total breakdown of the class as a whole. Don't be asking the HR players to support or agree to a straight-up death sentence to the class they enjoy playing, because that's how weak a position the HRs are in without the permastun.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    Like I said, try it. Try and see how it works out.

    SWs are weak? Try what happens when you pew-pew with mediocre damage attacks from range, but then have no defense tools or no CCs to compensate for it. But then do you have a chance when you go in close? With the new stat curves the deflection chance is lower than ever, not to mention Lifesteal isn't exactly what it used to be in mod3. In general your melee attacks hit even weaker than ranged attacks.

    ...

    Most other MMOGs depict bow-and-arrow classes as natural predators to spellcasters, in that they fire from longer range than magic spells, and the attacks hit hard, and often interrupts spellcasting.

    In NW?

    There is no spellcasting time. There is no breaking your concentration. Every attack from a ranged caster hits like a truck and we all know how the CWs boast around their DPS. Even SWs say that they aren't too shabby in terms of pure DPS. What happens when a HR meets a CW or even a SW, is that without means to significantly interrupt the spellcasting in this game, it simply becomes a stand-off where both sides stand and start firing at each other with all they've got. THAT's how simple it is when you remove Crushing Roots. Both sides start firing, and of course, in this type of fight the guy with the bigger guns wins. WHO has the bigger guns?

    Heck, instead of giving the spellcasters a spellcasting time, they did it the other way around and gave HR Aimed Shot, theoretically one of the most strongest at-wills in the game, an interruptable cast time. Even the slightest scratch of a two-digit breezing hit will just stop the power from activating. Do you want to see what happens when you have to go against a CW with its Disintegrate Spamming, Stormspell proccing, constant EF holds and RoF spamming... with a HR that has maybe 6~7k encounter attacks at most and Rapidshot pew-pewing, with no means to disrupt the CW?


    Oh make no mistake about it. Crushing Roots is pure and simple bullsheet. Remove it anytime, I support that. But that removal should be coming with a significant compensation to how the HR may fight without that bullsheet of a mechanic, or otherwise you're supporting just a one-sided slaughter of a class.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    last mod i owned a normal Elfen battle enchant and I am 100%sure it hellped against the root daze Combo a bit, not worthless, did not try higher enchants, no AD..
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    last mod i owned a normal Elfen battle enchant and I am 100%sure it hellped against the root daze Combo a bit, not worthless, did not try higher enchants, no AD..

    It helps with at least being able to move, but the true grief factor is the microdazes that repeat senselessly, which, doesn't help much. You're still chain-dazed and prevented from doing anything.

    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • bertrandxbertrandx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 147 Arc User
    crimpatul wrote: »
    ingame_leaderboard_zpsjiuvsjg5.png

    Haha the GF has more kills on average per match than the HR and CW. A class designed to be a tank by definition is winning on the numbers of kills to classes that are designed to be damage dealers. Something's wrong here...

    Bert - Lv70 pathfinder trapper. How's sunny california?
  • jarecstephjarecsteph Member Posts: 270 Arc User
    kweassa wrote: »
    Look here, boyos (or maybe gals, too). It's really enough, this drama. I've seen this sheet happen in mod5 where Luc brings out a noose and demands hang all the scoundrels, and things happened exactly that way, for the worse. In the end it did nothing but drive every TR player into the sabo path and just created a nightmare in mod6.

    There are two sides of the issue, and both of them are right.

    I only said…
    Can you explain why HR perma-roots\daze are still going on?
    No class should have more than 2 to 3 seconds control power in PVP… Like CW frost, roots should have a cool down on the player that has been rooted
    After roots effect are normalise, I'm sure good HR will learn to use correctly and effectively there powers and then will see.
    Regarding daze, TR were saying the same kind of arguments they nerf it and TR are doing just fine, it will be the same for HR no other adjustments are needed just stop these over the top CC for any character.
    Nobody should be daze or root more than 2 second period. (I’m adding with all the control resist stuff)
    HR daze should be remove completely ASAP, rooting is more than enough and a great advantage but should be tone down a lot.
    I would like to say that my last statement (should be tone down a lot) is out of line because I don’t have a clue on how much it as to be tone down but I’m quite sure that some adjustment will be required.

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  • crimpatulcrimpatul Member Posts: 197
    edited July 2015
    Again the same s h i t as before.

    Ive explained to 4,2 255 some reasons, but man you keep asking to destroy the class without taking any idea or argument from another players.

    Go and make a HR and then we can talk.

    Anyway Ill say it again, for your question, without the actual mechanich the HR would need a total class redesign. Its that the question you are asking, why still going on the roots. Ok you know it now. You have your new knowledge/answer. Stop your QQ.
    Post edited by crimpatul on
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    bertrandx wrote: »
    crimpatul wrote: »
    ingame_leaderboard_zpsjiuvsjg5.png

    Haha the GF has more kills on average per match than the HR and CW. A class designed to be a tank by definition is winning on the numbers of kills to classes that are designed to be damage dealers. Something's wrong here...

    very representative, one Warlock that exclusively runs premade + healer on top I guess
    cra.p statisitc
  • jhpnwjhpnw Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 611 Arc User
    I get a kick out of this thread like listening to my grandkids bickering and calling names\

    HR needs no nerf just a DPS boost

    ist thing have you ever considered the perma stun was done this way by the developers trying to give HR a needed boost I see no issue with the class other than damage is way to low and takes forever to kill you. In future mods gear will change and things will level out if you nerf any class then you hurt to future of the game.this is where the frustration is coming in not getting killed fast enough so you can get back to your game. the GF rushes you and kills in 4 seconds the control wizard lifts you 10 feet off the ground and you are dead in 4 seconds and the TR goes stealth smoke bomb slows you and hits with 100k damage and you are dead in 4 seconds. None of these classes should be nerf either you just need to learn what works and what doesnot against them . WHY should not the HR be able to stun you and you be dead in 5 or 6 seconds. Its supposed to be this way BIS characters are people that have worked really hard or paid to build. That's the way PVP works. NOT every match should be a romp stomp and not every one should lose every match once you have paid your dues. Some people just would rather cry nerf than adjust. And some cant play or are poorly geared or raged up from being stomped so they use the flavor of the month. New changed always get used a lot and the daze works with a little skill. I don't use it: do to takes way to long to kill some one so the odds of another player killing you while your focused on one target are extremely good. When I see another HR running daze or get caught by one I make adjustments and 99% of the time I kill them next time I see them. A player that does not have to make adjustments in game is not playing correctly or you drew a lower level group . The perma stun is a bad idea only because to many new players are using it and as more and more gear comes out this power will decrease and they will be left with out having learned to play. I don't believe in nerfing any class I just believe in adjusting to over come.

    On a side note I have noticed some changes in the higher PVP guilds (these were 4 of the top ones) and wish to thank them several times lately in match they have realized that they were a landslide to win and let the PUG get there points for glory and I haven't see a camp at home respwan in weeks and I play 5 to 7 games a day 7 days a week. I am far from BIS but I can adjust and hold my own. and have over 500 PVP matches under my belt so I do understand PVP

    jhp
  • kweassakweassa Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    jhpnw wrote: »
    ...The perma stun is a bad idea only because to many new players are using it and as more and more gear comes out this power will decrease and they will be left with out having learned to play. I don't believe in nerfing any class I just believe in adjusting to over come...

    jhp, by definition a "permastun" gets that "perma-" prefix because specifically it is IMPOSSIBLE to overcome -- hence, duh, "perma". On the receiving end, like I've mentioned in the past, the longest perma I've personall experienced was 26 seconds or something.

    You can't stop it from beginning because the roots are undodgeable in the first place, and just happens, and then from that point on nothing works. No keyboard input works. It's like someone just unplugged your keyboard. How do you adjust to something that by definition you have no way getting out of?

    Would you prefer, for example, if I've switched from my own, unique TR build, and then just went the same cookie-cutter Saboteuer permastealth TR build to just whittle down the HR with daggers, without even having a single chance to retaliate? Would that cound as 'adjusting'? By suppressing one broken sheet with another broken sheet of even stronger calibre? By definition of "permastealth" the HR will have no chance to fight back at all, no amount of smart thinking is going to be able to correctly guess my position 60 feet away in invisibility often enough to kill me, and every HR I meet will just go into a slow, frustrating death... or, I'll simply repeat the dumb process long enough to get me a full AP, and then throw a SS, and then Shocking Execution. Wow. Try adjusting to that.

    When that happens, is this because the HR failed to 'adjust'? How is any HR supposed to adjust to this cheesey-sheet, no-skill dweeebery? Likewise, how do you adjust to a permastun, by definition, which locks you into inaction, with nothing working at all until you're either slowly killed by the HR alone, or swamped up by some other enemy DPS nearby?


    There is no question the Trapper meta is a heap of sheet and needs to be removed. The question is when, and how, and what compensations the HR needs to be receiving, and it is precisely for this reason, I am objecting to the blind, uneducated, and plain selfish nerf-calls coming from some people. Not because the Crushing Roots meta is fine.
    Stop making excuses. Be a man.
    If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
    Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
  • bertrandxbertrandx Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 147 Arc User
    bertrandx wrote: »
    crimpatul wrote: »
    ingame_leaderboard_zpsjiuvsjg5.png

    Haha the GF has more kills on average per match than the HR and CW. A class designed to be a tank by definition is winning on the numbers of kills to classes that are designed to be damage dealers. Something's wrong here...

    very representative, one Warlock that exclusively runs premade + healer on top I guess
    cra.p statisitc

    I'm going to say obvious things here. It is representative of the top 100 players on the period of time NCL took place and during NCL matches, assuming all numbers are correct. The GF being a strong class that can kill others easily is something we all felt during the PvP league and the numbers confirm this.
    Bert - Lv70 pathfinder trapper. How's sunny california?
  • schietindebuxschietindebux Member Posts: 4,292 Arc User
    bertrandx wrote: »
    bertrandx wrote: »
    crimpatul wrote: »
    ingame_leaderboard_zpsjiuvsjg5.png

    Haha the GF has more kills on average per match than the HR and CW. A class designed to be a tank by definition is winning on the numbers of kills to classes that are designed to be damage dealers. Something's wrong here...

    very representative, one Warlock that exclusively runs premade + healer on top I guess
    cra.p statisitc

    I'm going to say obvious things here. It is representative of the top 100 players on the period of time NCL took place and during NCL matches, assuming all numbers are correct. The GF being a strong class that can kill others easily is something we all felt during the PvP league and the numbers confirm this.

    sure..you really think that your statistic tells anything about a class including one player?
    show the same statistic with10 player from every class and you will probably get a better build of the situation
    And yes, GF is strong and deals better burst damage than any other class
  • setillsetill Member Posts: 90 Arc User
    So comparing trapper to scoundrel isn't a valid arguement. Scoundrels don't have the HR's damages, plus hr's stealth don't suffer from stealth depletion, can hit all you want in stealth and stop saying trappers don't do damages or your build is wrong.
    Even if trapper's control (daze and root) are cut to half their duration in pvp they will still stay OP unlikely scoundrel.
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