So BiS PvPers realized that poor PvP newbies ran from them to Gauntlgrym and now chasing them all over the ma...respawn? At least there is a chance two decent premades queue up for GG and ran into each other.
However I find it funny how fast the hate fashion changes from hate on high bis "p2w"s to just people running in premades.
3.8k PvP SW.
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
The last time I entered a match with a premade... regarding CA, fyi, WE ARE NOT a PvP guild we are a casual guild... was over 2 months ago. If you would have read anything that I wrote about this you would know that it was not done to win a match... but to group together... for gear. We stopped entering together after we all earned our gear. Some of the people that I did this with have not PvP'd one match since. When we entered as a premade... we lost more than we won... and I am not talking 1 win in 3 matches. I am talking more like 1 win in 5 matches.
Why is that?
Because we entered for fun, companionship and gear. We would also enter with 2 tanks and 3 dps. The tanks would take on as many players as they could... off node... allowing anyone left to cap. This is not the way most PvP guilds work in GG. None of us are BiS... nor do we seek to abuse others.
BTW... we entered maybe 5 times...total. As I said in another thread... I do not like to play with a premade. I win more matches when I enter solo.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
As I have said before... the premades that I have seen in there were from Midnight, DayBreak and Afternoon Express... I have seen Coffee Emporium premades, but mostly solos. It seems to be where they like to conduct a lot of their business. I also believe that some of the Eastern Euro PvP guilds like it as well... because I rarely see them in Dom.
False. You can ask anyone who does dom if they see MEA in dom. We have members in dom and we like to do it.
Now I see that this WILL BE HAPPENING to GG. The Express Train to Pug town is going to **** that avenue for every other person interested in casual PvP. I met up with Expressos 3 times out of 6 matches... and for anyone that doubts this... they were 10 player premades. There is a reason that they are there... we all know it... yet they seem to think that they are kings of PvP.
I dont feel the king of pvp in any situation. Also I get bored in GG.
MEA dont premade 10 in GG. Again more lies and more HAMSTER.
This thread is about GG... we all know that EVERY PvP guild enters Dom with premades. Well except for the Expresses... they like trolling the easy wins.
False. Most of the MEA people that join in GG are not BiS, and they dont like easy wins. Again, we have people in dom.
GG IS all about the mind game. It is why players from one team will rush 1, 2, 3 or 4... to make the other team think something that their opposition is stronger than they are. I have seen my team crumble under such warfare tactics... whereas I was ranked in the Top 5. My game will never be put off due to the play style of the opposition.
I have seen things like this backfire and my team climb back from an initial onslaught. Namely against a 5 man Express premade.
I also uncovered a reason behind the actions of the Expresso beans... many of them can't PvP without the help of teammates. 1v1 or 2v1 situations... they run or they die fast. Put the shoe on the other foot... and they will act like gods when they kill you 3v1, 4v1 or 5v1.
I can die in 1 vs 5 but I dont run. More lies and HAMSTER. I dont act like a god in any situation. I do pvp alone and in the guild there are a lot of hardcore pvpers that join gg/dom without premades. Ive seen members of MEA run alone very hard domination matches with pugs in the team. Like everybody.
Stop it.
Talk about GG, talk about dom, talk about BiS players, but stop with lies and HAMSTER about my guild mates and myself.
Also you dictate the rules of who can premade in GG. If civil anarchy joins in GG for friendship and have a good time its ok beause they loose xD, if another guild do it its wrong because they win. I dont care if you are a casual and you loose even if you premade. lol
Post edited by crimpatul on
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
edited July 2015
@crimpatul
What is going to make you happy right now?
I only share what I have experienced. I have experienced my opposition, in more than 1 match, has been a 10 man team of the Express coalition. I have experienced people that I have killed before tracking me down with "friends"... killing me and then essentially 'tea-bagging' my corpse. Which is a known, "I own your HAMSTER" move. I have experienced EVERYTHING else I have shared... and unless you can tell me that my experiences are random and false... with proof. Do not speak about that which you know not.
I cannot lie... I am a initiate Buddhist monk... without breaking a vow. That goes for even White Lies.
The chances that 2 5-man groups from the same guild are put together is something that happened randomly is almost beyond comprehension. As kweasa has pointed out in MANY posts regarding this action... entering a 5 man... will always have an effect on the opposition. That says nothing about 2 5-man groups.
It seems to be you should look to change your coalition's public appearance or perception... by doing something different. Pretty soon... unless they do not create a separate queue... you guys will be facing a 20 man premade of all Express members.
I am done with my end of this. Keep thinking what you want to think... that is your prerogative. I wish you peace.
I do not always perform as I had wished. Why is that... because I choose a role and I stick with it.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
I was happy fighting one of the best players (page 1) in 1 vs 1 inside GG.
I was happy today when I got a nice loot in Tiamat.
There are a lot of things of this game that I enjoy.
Im not happy when I see you day by day throwing HAMSTER and lies about MEA and then say "I dont blame anyone". Man please. If you do it at least dont lie about it.
Again, I respect if you talk about GG, but no more lies and blamming about guilds that you dont know.
PS: you think that you know what people feels in GG but you are wrong. And this is a fact.
PS2: In all the time I have been in this guild I have never seen any 10 man premade.
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
Im not happy when I see you day by day throwing HAMSTER and lies about MEA and then say "I dont blame anyone". Man please. If you do it at least dont lie about it.
Again, I respect if you talk about GG, but no more lies and blamming about guilds that you dont know.
PS2: In all the time I have been in this guild I have never seen any 10 man premade.
I know that you and everyone else that PvPs enter solo... more than they do in premades.
Unless you were there... playing my character... you have no idea whether or not I am lying. You are assuming that I am lying when in fact I have experienced EVERYTHING I shared. Personal experiences ARE NOT LIES. I am telling you a fact... that I do not lie. So all of these things I relate back to, are facts. These things happened... to me. Each of the guilds were named for a reason... because these are the facts.
Just because you never saw a 10-man premade... that does not mean that 2 5-man teams did not coordinate their actions to stack the deck. This has been experienced by more people than just me... I am just pointing them out.
If you don't like the HAMSTER being thrown back at Express... don't throw it in the first place. You want a pristine public opinion? Stop acting like you don't care... when you clearly do care.
I have committed to one thing... when I am opposed to a premade... I will annoy the hell out of them. The majority of the time, I will be the one Red line in a sea of Blue. When I am matched with a premade... I will leave.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
I know that you and everyone else that PvPs enter solo... more than they do in premades.
Unless you were there... playing my character... you have no idea whether or not I am lying. You are assuming that I am lying when in fact I have experienced EVERYTHING I shared. Personal experiences ARE NOT LIES. I am telling you a fact... that I do not lie. So all of these things I relate back to, are facts. These things happened... to me. Each of the guilds were named for a reason... because these are the facts.
Just because you never saw a 10-man premade... that does not mean that 2 5-man teams did not coordinate their actions to stack the deck. This has been experienced by more people than just me... I am just pointing them out.
1.- You are talking about what MEA members feel in GG. "Like PVP gods". That is not a personal experience. Its just your imagination. And its wrong. To tell what another player feels in GG is not a fact. Well, not only a player, you are talking about what an entire guild feels in GG. Can you give me a lottery number? lol
Ive explained to you that I get bored in GG and I dont feel like a god, but you dont care or apologize, you just keep the HAMSTER you throwed at me, yes at me. Im a MEA member.
2.- We are all day in TS and in the guild chat. We dont coordinate any 10 man premade. For the first time I require that you present any proof of a MEA 10 man premade. Also I dont know anyone who make 10 man premades in GG.
3.- If you face 1 vs 1 and the player runs you cant say that all their guild mates do it. Anyway, again, I ask you for proofs. Who runned in 1 vs 1 against you? . It was at full health?. It was to cap another node or rotate?. It was because you play TR and he didnt want to chase you?. You have not the absolute truth about this because you dont know the motivation of this player to move.
You said that "nothing cant disturb your enjoy in the game". Why so much QQ about MEA. Please, coherence.
Stop talking about a guild that host +400 members like if you have the absolute truth of the life.
Again, some of your lies:
"because I rarely see them in Dom." FALSE
"they seem to think that they are kings of PvP" FALSE
"they like trolling the easy wins" FALSE
"many of them can't PvP without the help of teammates" FALSE
"they will act like gods when they kill you 3v1, 4v1 or 5v1" FALSE
"1v1 or 2v1 situations... they run or they die fast" WTF
Facts???
These are not the droids you're looking for. xDD
Post edited by crimpatul on
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
1.- You are talking about what MEA members feel in GG. "Like PVP gods". That is not a personal experience. Its just your imagination. And its wrong. To tell what another player feels in GG is not a fact. Well, not only a player, you are talking about what an entire guild feels in GG. Can you give me a lottery number? lol
2.- We are all day in TS and in the guild chat. We dont coordinate any 10 man premade. For the first time I require that you present any proof of a MEA 10 man premade. Also I dont know anyone who make 10 man premades in GG.
3.- If you face 1 vs 1 any player and he runs you cant say that all their guild mates do it. Anyway, again, I ask you for proofs. Who runned in 1 vs 1 against you? . It was at full health?. It was to cap another node or rotate?. It was because you play TR and he didnt want to chase you?. You have not the absolute truth about this because you dont know the motivation of this player to move.
You said that "nothing cant disturb your enjoy in the game". Why so much QQ about MEA. Please, coherence.
Stop talking about a guild that host +400 members like if you have the absolute truth of the life.
Again, some of your lies:
"because I rarely see them in Dom." FALSE
"they seem to think that they are kings of PvP" FALSE
"they like trolling the easy wins" FALSE
"many of them can't PvP without the help of teammates" FALSE
"they will act like gods when they kill you 3v1, 4v1 or 5v1" FALSE
You seem to be very distraught about my words... based on the actions of your guild mates. Maybe you should be more concerned with the actions of your guild mates that influenced my words. That is just suggestion... as the only thing I seem to do is be able to HAMSTER you off.
You have yet to answer my question.
What would you like at this moment?
If the actions of the many reflect poorly on the individual... maybe that individual may want to re-examine their association with the many.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Dont psychoanalyze me. Keep that hobbie or profession for your book.
My association is ok.
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
I will explain ONE thing about me... I know EXACTLY what most people are feeling. Even if those people are 1000's of miles away. Doing this in game is not difficult to do... as it is hard to turn off when I am playing.
To simplify it... I am a VERY strong Empath.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
Good luck with that... I don't play with dudes.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
I have not blamed or shamed anyone. Not that I need to defend my actions because I do not resort to under-handed and abusive acts on people that I see as less important to me... for what ever reason. I point out the reality of the situation at hand. I am relaying the feelings of the "average Joe" who enters a PvP match.
People whined and complained when the mobs that we were supposed to fight, when M6 came out were too hard. They were impossible to beat. So what did they do? They made one of these choices:
1. Quit the game.
2. Do something else in the game.
3. Adapt to the changes.
4. Find an easier way to make this happen.
This is the same thing regarding the current situation in all PvP... since the adaptation will take a lot longer. Quite frankly, people are not that patient. There are people who exploit the bugs in the game to increase their success. Some have quit the game over this. Lastly, it seems most people are staying away from ALL PvP now-a-days.
The only people who seek to harm others without a care for their feelings... Sociopaths. Right now... the people who make the choice to enter GG as a 5 or 10 man premade for the sole purpose of winning at all costs... seem to fit the definition of sociopath. For if they cared about others... would they enter as they do?
You all have Dom to abuse each other and get the competition that you so desire. GG is supposed to be for the masses... as is ALL PvP. But we have already given up on Dom.
Dungeons are hard? Yep. So is trying to kill a thinking human instead of crappy AI that only hurts you because it hits hard. So what have PVErs done to adapt? Build specifically for a difficult fight? Build groups that have experienced players and synergies with classes? Interesting concept. Imagine if someone applied that to, I dunno, pvp. And then the masses called it "abuse". Oh my.
As far as I know, most of the Expresses aren't even BiS, so this whole thread is just complaints about what? Teamwork?
I'm trying to be unbiased here, but seems like if you want to play pvp content, you should prepare yourself... Just like you do for pve content. I'm not saying it's necessary to have max rank enchants, just some people you can depend on to fight on node or not to quit at the first sign or trouble. Like some people proudly do.
Frustrated with losing to people you know you could beat in a fair fight? And really, isn't it because your teammates are nowhere in sight? Off in the tunnels chasing that darned perma TR, or beating in futility on that paladin? Guess what? Everyone feels that way, and people who bring a couple dependable people to pvp are just trying to relieve some of that frustration. I mostly solo q for GG myself, but I can't say I don't understand when people ask me to group with them for it.
Admittedly, a full 10 man GG premade.... that's ridiculous. I think we can all agree that close matches are the most fun, whether you win or lose. Some of my favorite GGs were inhouse matches with a premade on each side. But you also can't deny people their fun because it impinges on your own, and that goes for everyone.
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
So then you admit that it is "fun" pugstomping?
kweasa has made a huge effort to show the damage with proof related to when a premade enters the GG queue. Believe it or not... the science is sound behind his thinking. Granted these are well thought out Logic problems... much like Algebra.
A 10-man premade has been admitted to being possible and that it is happening... whether or not you believe it. Admitted to by someone who has done it. Just like I have fought against a seeming premade... but they all admitted to entering solo. Synchronization of entering is easier to do than you all think.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
I'm not going to make assumptions about other people's motivations, since I don't know. I never said that's how I get my kicks. I just said that I prefer a close match, so to me, standing around after a 20 minute q after 5 mins max of playtime is not fun.
I didn't say I didn't believe you about 10 man premades, I just said it was ridiculous because I would consider it boring, not from disbelief. Granted, that's based on my own definition of a good time.
We're all playing this to have fun. Our definition of a "good time" may be vastly different than others, whose definition may only include "winning". Solo qing can come with the frustration of an undependable team, which makes is a reasonable assumption that some people would actually take the part of the game that they have legitimate control over- their choice of teammates- and use that to their advantage.
I thought you just said that we should focus only on the things we CAN change, not the things we cannot. We CANNOT, as players, institute separate q's on our own, though we can make our desires heard here. What we CAN do, is work within the parameters of the game we have, in which choosing your group is allowed. If others are running 5-10 man premades, you can choose to grab some friends and show them what's what, or come here, and whine about how unfair it is that they are using teamwork to get you.
You can choose to solo, group, or not play at all. It makes no difference to me which you do, as I'm sure it makes no difference to those premades, they'll find some other meat to hunt. Yes, yes- overfaming the forest. I'm not saying I disagree with you, persay, I'm saying your vendetta against group play is a bit silly. If anything, you should be grabbing some of your friends like you do for any other difficult content. This is an MMO afterall.
Edit:
I seem to recall that the fact that we could not q for Tiamat as groups being widely criticized. How could they expect us to do this "difficult endgame content without teamwork"? How is entering at the same time to be able to group with competent, motivated players any different than forming a group to help you in ANY content? It could even be argued that if the devs wanted us to be able to choose our groups in Tiamat, they would have given us that option, and anything else is just gaming the system.
Again, I'm not saying you're totally wrong. On some levels, you're absolutely right, stacking teams with all of one class or another makes for incredibly lopsided matches. Perhaps they could modify the q system to only let a team q with ONE of any given class? But saying that people should not be allowed to form teams in an MMO for ANY content is ludicrous, and separating the q's would just leave us to total pug matches with absolutely no chance of teamwork, and I can't see how that's any better. The next thing we'd have to complain about is again, gear disparity.
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drkbodhiMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,378Arc User
edited August 2015
There are channels for Tia... that are HIGHLY exclusive. They have set times when they enter... to the point that they enter at X number of minutes and seconds after the horn.
If changes are not made by these guilds... the people that they are stomping will eventually choose to stop entering PvP... no matter what the rewards. Then the queues will be hours before a match unless it is a prearranged match or an in-house.
These are changes that only they can control.
Personally, I control nothing but my actions, enjoyment and happiness.
When my game stops being fun... I will stop PvPing. Until then I like scoring a lot of points and being a 'fly in the ointment' for all of my opponents. There are some people that have told me that I am really good at PvP... because I am usually ranked in the Top 5 in GG and in Dom.
Me... I am okay. I would like to score more... but I do not control that.
Atwil "At" - Tiefling TR / Saardush - Black Dragonborn GWF / White - Tiefling OP
Leadership Council of Civil Anarchy
SYNERGY Alliance
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited August 2015
I rank #1 in highest kill and top 3 in more than 90+% of the GG PvP games I entered, but that doesnt mean anything. PvP is a lot on tactics and teamwork at a higher level. You dont always have to kill but if u can keep a bunch of people trapped at one node, prevent them from scoring then you are doing a big favor for your team
While I think Crimpatul's wording is a bit harsh, but he's got a point. Its quite a double standard to define that when an "Average" guild premade into GG they are just to 'have fun', but when the big name PvP guilds enter into PvP you just put harsh words on them, that is not very fair.
I am not sure how much you know about members from Purple Dragon or Absolute, but I can tell you a lot of them are still sitting between 2~3k item level. Many of the still-gearing or still-learning players from our guild occassionally semi-premades into GG for fun or daily, and they do not deserve the harsh words people sometimes put on them.
As to the BiS players from our guild, I do not believe I have seen them actively premading into GG, because we all know, it would not be much fun for either team. I cannot voice out for others, but I can say our guild is doing what we can to help the community enjoy the game better, and labelling our new players as Premades and putting harsh words on them, needs to stop, they deserve more respects.
As to Crim and DrKbodhi, if you two respect the community, then please try to sort out the personal matters in private, thanks.
I rank #1 in highest kill and top 3 in more than 90+% of the GG PvP games I entered, but that doesnt mean anything. PvP is a lot on tactics and teamwork at a higher level. You dont always have to kill but if u can keep a bunch of people trapped at one node, prevent them from scoring then you are doing a big favor for your team
While I think Crimpatul's wording is a bit harsh, but he's got a point. Its quite a double standard to define that when an "Average" guild premade into GG they are just to 'have fun', but when the big name PvP guilds enter into PvP you just put harsh words on them, that is not very fair.
I am not sure how much you know about members from Purple Dragon or Absolute, but I can tell you a lot of them are still sitting between 2~3k item level. Many of the still-gearing or still-learning players from our guild occassionally semi-premades into GG for fun or daily, and they do not deserve the harsh words people sometimes put on them.
As to the BiS players from our guild, I do not believe I have seen them actively premading into GG, because we all know, it would not be much fun for either team. I cannot voice out for others, but I can say our guild is doing what we can to help the community enjoy the game better, and labelling our new players as Premades and putting harsh words on them, needs to stop, they deserve more respects.
As to Crim and DrKbodhi, if you two respect the community, then please try to sort out the personal matters in private, thanks.
from my standpoint if people from pvp guild with 2500IL create semipremade its fair. whats unfair if they are bis. premade and still look for challenge there...
i have two question for you Icyphish
1. whats up with purple dragons? majority transfer to absolute? why?
2. now that we know that stronghold boons require a lot glory to feed (although i was not at test server yet), what will pvp guilds do? i fear these guilds finally kill pvp in this game with creating farming premades whenever possible to farm glory as quickly as possible with greed for that boons. tell me i am wrong. Say to your authorities to come here and say it will not happen. tell me that if bis or nearly bis absolute members will creating premades for gg pvp, they will be punished by your guild leadership....
I rank #1 in highest kill and top 3 in more than 90+% of the GG PvP games I entered, but that doesnt mean anything. PvP is a lot on tactics and teamwork at a higher level. You dont always have to kill but if u can keep a bunch of people trapped at one node, prevent them from scoring then you are doing a big favor for your team
While I think Crimpatul's wording is a bit harsh, but he's got a point. Its quite a double standard to define that when an "Average" guild premade into GG they are just to 'have fun', but when the big name PvP guilds enter into PvP you just put harsh words on them, that is not very fair.
I am not sure how much you know about members from Purple Dragon or Absolute, but I can tell you a lot of them are still sitting between 2~3k item level. Many of the still-gearing or still-learning players from our guild occassionally semi-premades into GG for fun or daily, and they do not deserve the harsh words people sometimes put on them.
As to the BiS players from our guild, I do not believe I have seen them actively premading into GG, because we all know, it would not be much fun for either team. I cannot voice out for others, but I can say our guild is doing what we can to help the community enjoy the game better, and labelling our new players as Premades and putting harsh words on them, needs to stop, they deserve more respects.
As to Crim and DrKbodhi, if you two respect the community, then please try to sort out the personal matters in private, thanks.
from my standpoint if people from pvp guild with 2500IL create semipremade its fair. whats unfair if they are bis. premade and still look for challenge there...
The blame still shifted to premades, pvp guilds and BIS players. All of these things are allowed by the developers. You folks keep crying how it's the fault of the pvp guilds etc...it's not. The game allows this to happen. What's fair is anyone can eneter any que with or without a premade at whatever gear level they choose. Those are the options given to everyone. PvP guilds sometimes spend hours trying to coordinate/play premades or inhouse matches just so they don't have to meet you pugs. A long, drawn out process BUT that's what the game offers..
Many people do tend to forget, that it is still a premade, if 2 or 3 sister or affiliated guilds enter together. For the not so trained eye it seems, they aren't one big premade, but in reality they are and all those, who are here since early days or even since a few months- and have an open mind and actually see with their eyes- can tell which guilds are in close contact.
This is how NCL was manipulated and dominated and this is how now GG PVP is roamed for easy kill.
There are channels in which one can easily coordinate matches, no big secret.
Last, but not least there are thousands of things, that aren't written down, in RL too, still nobody with a bit of common sense, sportsmanship or call it whatever you wish does. Not everything needs to be hammered into stone to exist, like it is in RL law, especially in anglo-saxon law. For example i put my handkerchief infront of my mouth, if i have to sneeze. It is nowhere written (where i live), that i must do so, but one with a bit of care for other people and with a good upbringing does put something there and doesn't infect others. This is called self restrain, we could this in PVP too!
I opened this thread with the intention, that we, the community of PVPers fill a sadly huge hole the Devs didn't fix since the time, they got dozens of feedback on the ongoing PUGstomping and the need for brackets.
Thank you all again!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
I rank #1 in highest kill and top 3 in more than 90+% of the GG PvP games I entered, but that doesnt mean anything. PvP is a lot on tactics and teamwork at a higher level. You dont always have to kill but if u can keep a bunch of people trapped at one node, prevent them from scoring then you are doing a big favor for your team
While I think Crimpatul's wording is a bit harsh, but he's got a point. Its quite a double standard to define that when an "Average" guild premade into GG they are just to 'have fun', but when the big name PvP guilds enter into PvP you just put harsh words on them, that is not very fair.
I am not sure how much you know about members from Purple Dragon or Absolute, but I can tell you a lot of them are still sitting between 2~3k item level. Many of the still-gearing or still-learning players from our guild occassionally semi-premades into GG for fun or daily, and they do not deserve the harsh words people sometimes put on them.
As to the BiS players from our guild, I do not believe I have seen them actively premading into GG, because we all know, it would not be much fun for either team. I cannot voice out for others, but I can say our guild is doing what we can to help the community enjoy the game better, and labelling our new players as Premades and putting harsh words on them, needs to stop, they deserve more respects.
As to Crim and DrKbodhi, if you two respect the community, then please try to sort out the personal matters in private, thanks.
2. now that we know that stronghold boons require a lot glory to feed (although i was not at test server yet), what will pvp guilds do? i fear these guilds finally kill pvp in this game with creating farming premades whenever possible to farm glory as quickly as possible with greed for that boons. tell me i am wrong.
This is my fear too and at current point everybody with brains knows, this will happen and it will widen the gap between "average Joe" PVPer and a premade PVPer.
Now if either queues or brackets or real ELO or separate PVP arenas for premades and solo players would exist, i wouldn't have this fear.
Sad truth is that getting that 1 daily seal and a bit of grym coins is hard as rock, cause the small player hasn't got a playing field anymore.
Devs should finally realize, that with each Mod and with the situation still not fixed, the gap between players gets even bigger and yes if the gap gets so big, that a normal player can't jump to the other side, he won't try it further aka. PVP is in fear of getting empty. Boy, just look at how long it takes now for a Q to pop. Now add to this the exclusive Stronghold boons and guess how many average PVPers would want to get massacred?!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
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vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
I rank #1 in highest kill and top 3 in more than 90+% of the GG PvP games I entered, but that doesnt mean anything. PvP is a lot on tactics and teamwork at a higher level. You dont always have to kill but if u can keep a bunch of people trapped at one node, prevent them from scoring then you are doing a big favor for your team
While I think Crimpatul's wording is a bit harsh, but he's got a point. Its quite a double standard to define that when an "Average" guild premade into GG they are just to 'have fun', but when the big name PvP guilds enter into PvP you just put harsh words on them, that is not very fair.
I am not sure how much you know about members from Purple Dragon or Absolute, but I can tell you a lot of them are still sitting between 2~3k item level. Many of the still-gearing or still-learning players from our guild occassionally semi-premades into GG for fun or daily, and they do not deserve the harsh words people sometimes put on them.
As to the BiS players from our guild, I do not believe I have seen them actively premading into GG, because we all know, it would not be much fun for either team. I cannot voice out for others, but I can say our guild is doing what we can to help the community enjoy the game better, and labelling our new players as Premades and putting harsh words on them, needs to stop, they deserve more respects.
As to Crim and DrKbodhi, if you two respect the community, then please try to sort out the personal matters in private, thanks.
from my standpoint if people from pvp guild with 2500IL create semipremade its fair. whats unfair if they are bis. premade and still look for challenge there...
The blame still shifted to premades, pvp guilds and BIS players. All of these things are allowed by the developers. You folks keep crying how it's the fault of the pvp guilds etc...it's not. The game allows this to happen. What's fair is anyone can eneter any que with or without a premade at whatever gear level they choose. Those are the options given to everyone. PvP guilds sometimes spend hours trying to coordinate/play premades or inhouse matches just so they don't have to meet you pugs. A long, drawn out process BUT that's what the game offers..
developers are fool, we know that they do nothing in the foreseeable future. they are working on little bit of there and little bit of that and rarely they adress some critical issues. And if, than in the wrong direction.
so who else to blame? In reality if bigger city constantly raiding smaller city, they never get sympathy or true respect of other people. coordinate inhouse premades? hmmmm maybe very rarely, not worth to talk about in this thread right?
I started playing this game last year and building one main toon. Reached bis just recently. And did as a pay to win ultralight, no more than $10 a month and feel every right to kill low gear players and enjoy it thoroughly because I worked for it, earned it, grinding and testing and building and buying and selling... for a year. If I can't stomp players who just started, that would be a shame. So I do enjoy that but not all the time - even better is winning a challenging premade against equal geared/skilled players. One thing that is problematic though is the game is to a point of almost a lockout to new players. I got halfway there by running dungeons and some lucky drops - by playing the game. And progression from actual in game content - not farmville style leadership - is now abysmal.
vinceent1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,264Arc User
edited August 2015
of course its more complex problem, but pvpers can contribute to a lot too, otherwise there will be pvp in the future. ps. maybe someone will consider it as their final victory in neverwinter pvp )))) (waiting 3 hours in premade que and system bring noone to challenger))) )
I started playing this game last year and building one main toon. Reached bis just recently. And did as a pay to win ultralight, no more than $10 a month and feel every right to kill low gear players and enjoy it thoroughly because I worked for it, earned it, grinding and testing and building and buying and selling... for a year. If I can't stomp players who just started, that would be a shame. So I do enjoy that but not all the time - even better is winning a challenging premade against equal geared/skilled players. One thing that is problematic though is the game is to a point of almost a lockout to new players. I got halfway there by running dungeons and some lucky drops - by playing the game. And progression from actual in game content - not farmville style leadership - is now abysmal.
The problem is not that you can stomp those players, but the fact that BIS geared players can get matched against very low geared players. This should simply not happen.
Comments
However I find it funny how fast the hate fashion changes from hate on high bis "p2w"s to just people running in premades.
Why is that?
Because we entered for fun, companionship and gear. We would also enter with 2 tanks and 3 dps. The tanks would take on as many players as they could... off node... allowing anyone left to cap. This is not the way most PvP guilds work in GG. None of us are BiS... nor do we seek to abuse others.
BTW... we entered maybe 5 times...total. As I said in another thread... I do not like to play with a premade. I win more matches when I enter solo.
I dont feel the king of pvp in any situation. Also I get bored in GG.
MEA dont premade 10 in GG. Again more lies and more HAMSTER.
False. Most of the MEA people that join in GG are not BiS, and they dont like easy wins. Again, we have people in dom.
See, you can perform well. Your own words.
I can die in 1 vs 5 but I dont run. More lies and HAMSTER. I dont act like a god in any situation. I do pvp alone and in the guild there are a lot of hardcore pvpers that join gg/dom without premades. Ive seen members of MEA run alone very hard domination matches with pugs in the team. Like everybody.
Stop it.
Talk about GG, talk about dom, talk about BiS players, but stop with lies and HAMSTER about my guild mates and myself.
Also you dictate the rules of who can premade in GG. If civil anarchy joins in GG for friendship and have a good time its ok beause they loose xD, if another guild do it its wrong because they win. I dont care if you are a casual and you loose even if you premade. lol
What is going to make you happy right now?
I only share what I have experienced. I have experienced my opposition, in more than 1 match, has been a 10 man team of the Express coalition. I have experienced people that I have killed before tracking me down with "friends"... killing me and then essentially 'tea-bagging' my corpse. Which is a known, "I own your HAMSTER" move. I have experienced EVERYTHING else I have shared... and unless you can tell me that my experiences are random and false... with proof. Do not speak about that which you know not.
I cannot lie... I am a initiate Buddhist monk... without breaking a vow. That goes for even White Lies.
The chances that 2 5-man groups from the same guild are put together is something that happened randomly is almost beyond comprehension. As kweasa has pointed out in MANY posts regarding this action... entering a 5 man... will always have an effect on the opposition. That says nothing about 2 5-man groups.
It seems to be you should look to change your coalition's public appearance or perception... by doing something different. Pretty soon... unless they do not create a separate queue... you guys will be facing a 20 man premade of all Express members.
I am done with my end of this. Keep thinking what you want to think... that is your prerogative. I wish you peace.
I do not always perform as I had wished. Why is that... because I choose a role and I stick with it.
I was happy fighting one of the best players (page 1) in 1 vs 1 inside GG.
I was happy today when I got a nice loot in Tiamat.
There are a lot of things of this game that I enjoy.
Im not happy when I see you day by day throwing HAMSTER and lies about MEA and then say "I dont blame anyone". Man please. If you do it at least dont lie about it.
Again, I respect if you talk about GG, but no more lies and blamming about guilds that you dont know.
PS: you think that you know what people feels in GG but you are wrong. And this is a fact.
PS2: In all the time I have been in this guild I have never seen any 10 man premade.
I know that you and everyone else that PvPs enter solo... more than they do in premades.
Unless you were there... playing my character... you have no idea whether or not I am lying. You are assuming that I am lying when in fact I have experienced EVERYTHING I shared. Personal experiences ARE NOT LIES. I am telling you a fact... that I do not lie. So all of these things I relate back to, are facts. These things happened... to me. Each of the guilds were named for a reason... because these are the facts.
Just because you never saw a 10-man premade... that does not mean that 2 5-man teams did not coordinate their actions to stack the deck. This has been experienced by more people than just me... I am just pointing them out.
If you don't like the HAMSTER being thrown back at Express... don't throw it in the first place. You want a pristine public opinion? Stop acting like you don't care... when you clearly do care.
I have committed to one thing... when I am opposed to a premade... I will annoy the hell out of them. The majority of the time, I will be the one Red line in a sea of Blue. When I am matched with a premade... I will leave.
1.- You are talking about what MEA members feel in GG. "Like PVP gods". That is not a personal experience. Its just your imagination. And its wrong. To tell what another player feels in GG is not a fact. Well, not only a player, you are talking about what an entire guild feels in GG. Can you give me a lottery number? lol
Ive explained to you that I get bored in GG and I dont feel like a god, but you dont care or apologize, you just keep the HAMSTER you throwed at me, yes at me. Im a MEA member.
2.- We are all day in TS and in the guild chat. We dont coordinate any 10 man premade. For the first time I require that you present any proof of a MEA 10 man premade. Also I dont know anyone who make 10 man premades in GG.
3.- If you face 1 vs 1 and the player runs you cant say that all their guild mates do it. Anyway, again, I ask you for proofs. Who runned in 1 vs 1 against you? . It was at full health?. It was to cap another node or rotate?. It was because you play TR and he didnt want to chase you?. You have not the absolute truth about this because you dont know the motivation of this player to move.
You said that "nothing cant disturb your enjoy in the game". Why so much QQ about MEA. Please, coherence.
Stop talking about a guild that host +400 members like if you have the absolute truth of the life.
Again, some of your lies:
"because I rarely see them in Dom." FALSE
"they seem to think that they are kings of PvP" FALSE
"they like trolling the easy wins" FALSE
"many of them can't PvP without the help of teammates" FALSE
"they will act like gods when they kill you 3v1, 4v1 or 5v1" FALSE
"1v1 or 2v1 situations... they run or they die fast" WTF
Facts???
These are not the droids you're looking for. xDD
You seem to be very distraught about my words... based on the actions of your guild mates. Maybe you should be more concerned with the actions of your guild mates that influenced my words. That is just suggestion... as the only thing I seem to do is be able to HAMSTER you off.
You have yet to answer my question.
What would you like at this moment?
If the actions of the many reflect poorly on the individual... maybe that individual may want to re-examine their association with the many.
Stop QQ.
Popcorn for all.
Dont psychoanalyze me. Keep that hobbie or profession for your book.
My association is ok.
To simplify it... I am a VERY strong Empath.
Hahahahaha
Sorry, already had the troll cup of the day and you seem like one of the biggest. lol
Go back to the nine hells.
Dungeons are hard? Yep. So is trying to kill a thinking human instead of crappy AI that only hurts you because it hits hard. So what have PVErs done to adapt? Build specifically for a difficult fight? Build groups that have experienced players and synergies with classes? Interesting concept. Imagine if someone applied that to, I dunno, pvp. And then the masses called it "abuse". Oh my.
As far as I know, most of the Expresses aren't even BiS, so this whole thread is just complaints about what? Teamwork?
I'm trying to be unbiased here, but seems like if you want to play pvp content, you should prepare yourself... Just like you do for pve content. I'm not saying it's necessary to have max rank enchants, just some people you can depend on to fight on node or not to quit at the first sign or trouble. Like some people proudly do.
Frustrated with losing to people you know you could beat in a fair fight? And really, isn't it because your teammates are nowhere in sight? Off in the tunnels chasing that darned perma TR, or beating in futility on that paladin? Guess what? Everyone feels that way, and people who bring a couple dependable people to pvp are just trying to relieve some of that frustration. I mostly solo q for GG myself, but I can't say I don't understand when people ask me to group with them for it.
Admittedly, a full 10 man GG premade.... that's ridiculous. I think we can all agree that close matches are the most fun, whether you win or lose. Some of my favorite GGs were inhouse matches with a premade on each side. But you also can't deny people their fun because it impinges on your own, and that goes for everyone.
kweasa has made a huge effort to show the damage with proof related to when a premade enters the GG queue. Believe it or not... the science is sound behind his thinking. Granted these are well thought out Logic problems... much like Algebra.
A 10-man premade has been admitted to being possible and that it is happening... whether or not you believe it. Admitted to by someone who has done it. Just like I have fought against a seeming premade... but they all admitted to entering solo. Synchronization of entering is easier to do than you all think.
I didn't say I didn't believe you about 10 man premades, I just said it was ridiculous because I would consider it boring, not from disbelief. Granted, that's based on my own definition of a good time.
We're all playing this to have fun. Our definition of a "good time" may be vastly different than others, whose definition may only include "winning". Solo qing can come with the frustration of an undependable team, which makes is a reasonable assumption that some people would actually take the part of the game that they have legitimate control over- their choice of teammates- and use that to their advantage.
I thought you just said that we should focus only on the things we CAN change, not the things we cannot. We CANNOT, as players, institute separate q's on our own, though we can make our desires heard here. What we CAN do, is work within the parameters of the game we have, in which choosing your group is allowed. If others are running 5-10 man premades, you can choose to grab some friends and show them what's what, or come here, and whine about how unfair it is that they are using teamwork to get you.
You can choose to solo, group, or not play at all. It makes no difference to me which you do, as I'm sure it makes no difference to those premades, they'll find some other meat to hunt. Yes, yes- overfaming the forest. I'm not saying I disagree with you, persay, I'm saying your vendetta against group play is a bit silly. If anything, you should be grabbing some of your friends like you do for any other difficult content. This is an MMO afterall.
Edit:
I seem to recall that the fact that we could not q for Tiamat as groups being widely criticized. How could they expect us to do this "difficult endgame content without teamwork"? How is entering at the same time to be able to group with competent, motivated players any different than forming a group to help you in ANY content? It could even be argued that if the devs wanted us to be able to choose our groups in Tiamat, they would have given us that option, and anything else is just gaming the system.
Again, I'm not saying you're totally wrong. On some levels, you're absolutely right, stacking teams with all of one class or another makes for incredibly lopsided matches. Perhaps they could modify the q system to only let a team q with ONE of any given class? But saying that people should not be allowed to form teams in an MMO for ANY content is ludicrous, and separating the q's would just leave us to total pug matches with absolutely no chance of teamwork, and I can't see how that's any better. The next thing we'd have to complain about is again, gear disparity.
If changes are not made by these guilds... the people that they are stomping will eventually choose to stop entering PvP... no matter what the rewards. Then the queues will be hours before a match unless it is a prearranged match or an in-house.
These are changes that only they can control.
Personally, I control nothing but my actions, enjoyment and happiness.
When my game stops being fun... I will stop PvPing. Until then I like scoring a lot of points and being a 'fly in the ointment' for all of my opponents. There are some people that have told me that I am really good at PvP... because I am usually ranked in the Top 5 in GG and in Dom.
Me... I am okay. I would like to score more... but I do not control that.
While I think Crimpatul's wording is a bit harsh, but he's got a point. Its quite a double standard to define that when an "Average" guild premade into GG they are just to 'have fun', but when the big name PvP guilds enter into PvP you just put harsh words on them, that is not very fair.
I am not sure how much you know about members from Purple Dragon or Absolute, but I can tell you a lot of them are still sitting between 2~3k item level. Many of the still-gearing or still-learning players from our guild occassionally semi-premades into GG for fun or daily, and they do not deserve the harsh words people sometimes put on them.
As to the BiS players from our guild, I do not believe I have seen them actively premading into GG, because we all know, it would not be much fun for either team. I cannot voice out for others, but I can say our guild is doing what we can to help the community enjoy the game better, and labelling our new players as Premades and putting harsh words on them, needs to stop, they deserve more respects.
As to Crim and DrKbodhi, if you two respect the community, then please try to sort out the personal matters in private, thanks.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
from my standpoint if people from pvp guild with 2500IL create semipremade its fair. whats unfair if they are bis. premade and still look for challenge there...
i have two question for you Icyphish
1. whats up with purple dragons? majority transfer to absolute? why?
2. now that we know that stronghold boons require a lot glory to feed (although i was not at test server yet), what will pvp guilds do? i fear these guilds finally kill pvp in this game with creating farming premades whenever possible to farm glory as quickly as possible with greed for that boons. tell me i am wrong. Say to your authorities to come here and say it will not happen. tell me that if bis or nearly bis absolute members will creating premades for gg pvp, they will be punished by your guild leadership....
The blame still shifted to premades, pvp guilds and BIS players. All of these things are allowed by the developers. You folks keep crying how it's the fault of the pvp guilds etc...it's not. The game allows this to happen. What's fair is anyone can eneter any que with or without a premade at whatever gear level they choose. Those are the options given to everyone. PvP guilds sometimes spend hours trying to coordinate/play premades or inhouse matches just so they don't have to meet you pugs. A long, drawn out process BUT that's what the game offers..
This is how NCL was manipulated and dominated and this is how now GG PVP is roamed for easy kill.
There are channels in which one can easily coordinate matches, no big secret.
Last, but not least there are thousands of things, that aren't written down, in RL too, still nobody with a bit of common sense, sportsmanship or call it whatever you wish does. Not everything needs to be hammered into stone to exist, like it is in RL law, especially in anglo-saxon law. For example i put my handkerchief infront of my mouth, if i have to sneeze. It is nowhere written (where i live), that i must do so, but one with a bit of care for other people and with a good upbringing does put something there and doesn't infect others. This is called self restrain, we could this in PVP too!
I opened this thread with the intention, that we, the community of PVPers fill a sadly huge hole the Devs didn't fix since the time, they got dozens of feedback on the ongoing PUGstomping and the need for brackets.
Thank you all again!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
This is my fear too and at current point everybody with brains knows, this will happen and it will widen the gap between "average Joe" PVPer and a premade PVPer.
Now if either queues or brackets or real ELO or separate PVP arenas for premades and solo players would exist, i wouldn't have this fear.
Sad truth is that getting that 1 daily seal and a bit of grym coins is hard as rock, cause the small player hasn't got a playing field anymore.
Devs should finally realize, that with each Mod and with the situation still not fixed, the gap between players gets even bigger and yes if the gap gets so big, that a normal player can't jump to the other side, he won't try it further aka. PVP is in fear of getting empty. Boy, just look at how long it takes now for a Q to pop. Now add to this the exclusive Stronghold boons and guess how many average PVPers would want to get massacred?!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
developers are fool, we know that they do nothing in the foreseeable future. they are working on little bit of there and little bit of that and rarely they adress some critical issues. And if, than in the wrong direction.
so who else to blame? In reality if bigger city constantly raiding smaller city, they never get sympathy or true respect of other people. coordinate inhouse premades? hmmmm maybe very rarely, not worth to talk about in this thread right?
I started playing this game last year and building one main toon. Reached bis just recently. And did as a pay to win ultralight, no more than $10 a month and feel every right to kill low gear players and enjoy it thoroughly because I worked for it, earned it, grinding and testing and building and buying and selling... for a year. If I can't stomp players who just started, that would be a shame. So I do enjoy that but not all the time - even better is winning a challenging premade against equal geared/skilled players. One thing that is problematic though is the game is to a point of almost a lockout to new players. I got halfway there by running dungeons and some lucky drops - by playing the game. And progression from actual in game content - not farmville style leadership - is now abysmal.
Sopi SW Youtube channel pvp brickabrack
The problem is not that you can stomp those players, but the fact that BIS geared players can get matched against very low geared players. This should simply not happen.