Lets say your a TR, it takes 20 hits of sly flourish to kill the Monster. Except every 2 hits you have to dodge roll because enemys hit so hard you will die if you dont.
Since when do you have to dodge that much against lvl1-69 trash mobs? *And* have enough live steal to fill up your health with *one* additional hit?
Or:
If you would have been dead after 300% damage in 3 time units, could you stand 300% damage per 4 time units forever?
You're arguing semantics, I made up the numbers on the spot and they arn't even close acurate, they just illustrate a point you seem to have missed. To clarify, the point is that lower enemy damage means less time wasted on defencive manouvers and more time spent of dealing damage, thus, a dps increase. I simply can't say how it will play out, if mobs will die faster or take longer untill I've tried it out.
As far as i understand after Reading patch notes the change is only to mobs from level 6 to 70. IWD/DR/SHARANDAR/WoD and all those mobs at level 71 to 73 arent affected by this. If im wrong pl tell us.
No you are 100% correct. Everyone else is jumping the gun and making false assumptions.
True.
But then... what exactly is this change about?
Epic dungeons and skirmishes are not affected.
Lvl70 Areas are not affected.
Therefore, a char with IL 1600/1800 will still enter those areas and those lairs and die after few seconds.
As mentioned in another thread, the Steam Charts are not showing the full numbers of players... but Devs should take a hard look at them, and then think quickly about changes, that will bring more players back into the game.
Atm it rather looks like they are working really hard on driving even more players away from the game with their changes... just saying, make campaign and open areas easy again, and epic dungeons and skirmishes can stay "epic" as they are.
I do believe in killing the messenger...
Want to know why?
Because it sends a message!
0
andorrabellMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 437Arc User
... and what about the respawn rate of the mobs now?
You killed a part of the group at last, but then they respawn directly on top of you again?
This works correctly in game. I took my paladin to IWD and his dps is HORRIBLE. Given how long it took me to kill a group of 2 barbarians and 2 dogs in the intro quests they definitely would have respawned if the game didn't count from the *last* mob in a group to die.
I was worried about this as well, but Cryptic got this one right
A better change would be
+ 50% less damage and 25% more hp for level 60-73 mobs
and it would still be challenging enough.
+1 as well here.
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theycallmetomuMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,861Arc User
edited June 2015
I don't know if anyone else has realized this, but increasing monster HP and reducing monster damage amounts to a boost in life steal's effectiveness.
Your real damage output is 2/3rds what it used to be, but real damage taken is 25% lower. However, your life steal heals on the basis of nominal damage output; therefore, the amount of damage you heal relative to the amount of damage enemies deal is now higher. Before life steal was kind of useless, because sure you can heal to full every now on then on a major attack-but a lot of the time, you didn't ever get that heal to full because combat didn't last long enough. Now, you'll be in combat for a longer period of time, and life steal will proc at a time when it's relevant.
Life steal in general is just too weak now. There's not enough of it on end game gear and the chance to apply is just to sporadic to rely on. You need to much of it and theres not enough of it in the game. Not unless you want to sacrifice huge amounts of dps.
I don't know if anyone else has realized this, but increasing monster HP and reducing monster damage amounts to a boost in life steal's effectiveness.
Your real damage output is 2/3rds what it used to be, but real damage taken is 25% lower. However, your life steal heals on the basis of nominal damage output; therefore, the amount of damage you heal relative to the amount of damage enemies deal is now higher. Before life steal was kind of useless, because sure you can heal to full every now on then on a major attack-but a lot of the time, you didn't ever get that heal to full because combat didn't last long enough. Now, you'll be in combat for a longer period of time, and life steal will proc at a time when it's relevant.
Well.. no. yes you have more proccing chances as you are forced to be hitting something more often. But so are the mobs. They have 50% time extra to hit you with only a 25% damage reduction. That's still a buff. But not to the players.
I didn't say it was a player buff. I just said it was a life steal buff. Each HP of healing is worth X amount of combat time. X is greater now than it used to be.
Not sure on this.. Best thing to do is wait until it is actually in game and give it a few days for the playerbase to get a feel for it. Without actually testing it there is no point in worrying about it.
... and what about the respawn rate of the mobs now?
You killed a part of the group at last, but then they respawn directly on top of you again?
If -and I realize that we're talking about Cryptic, so it might be a very big if- they did their programming right, the counter towards mob re-spawning doesn't start until the last creature dies. So you should remain good in that respect.
SW's were broken with the advent of mod 6. There is currently ONE viable build for SW's. Hellbringer is FUBAR, SW's have no survivability once they have agro (Unless they are really really lucky,but it usually means certain death for SW)
So, speaking from the perspective of a SW... there's nothing to like with this change.
This change apparently only affects enemies that are 60-70 so that means EE mobs only... this has no bearing on the rest of the game really. Another pointless change.
This change apparently only affects enemies that are 60-70 so that means EE mobs only... this has no bearing on the rest of the game really. Another pointless change.
Actually. They said: levels 6-~70 not 60-70. It may seem like semantics but it could change the whole discussion.
A 33% damage nerf on 70+ enemies is ridiculous.
A 33% damage nerf on <70 enemies is cruel.
What's with people who put their Ilvl in their Signatures? They probably have a big gold chain and saggy pants too.
o We are adjusting difficulty for all critters that are 6-~70 using some general guidelines:
The patch notes says 6-~70 we all know that 0 and - are right next to each other and that ~ is used for ranges. So its best to assume that its 60~70 levels only.
Honestly I can't see them putting in that much effort to change every enemy in the game pre 70. Not putting them down but that's a lot of code to change...
Honestly I can't see them putting in that much effort to change every enemy in the game pre 70. Not putting them down but that's a lot of code to change...
It's probably all stored in database tables. An SQL statement or two could do it.
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
0
instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
Monster has 30000 HP
You hit for 3000 HP
You require 10 hits to kill enemy You hit the enemy 4 times. Enemy drinks a 30000 HP healing potion.
Enemy hits you for 200000 points of damage.
You're dead.
After patch:
Monster has 45000 HP
you hit for 3000 HP
You require 15 hits to kill enemy You hit the enemy 4 times. Enemy drinks a 45000 HP healing potion.
Enemy hits you for 25% of 200000 points of damage.
You're dead.
Monster has 30000 HP
You hit for 3000 HP
You require 10 hits to kill enemy You hit the enemy 4 times. Enemy drinks a 30000 HP healing potion.
Enemy hits you for 200000 points of damage.
You're dead.
After patch:
Monster has 45000 HP
you hit for 3000 HP
You require 15 hits to kill enemy You hit the enemy 4 times. Enemy drinks a 45000 HP healing potion.
Enemy hits you for 25% of 200000 points of damage.
You're dead.
Fixed your math for ya.
And I corrected yours:
After patch:
Monster has 45000 HP
you hit for 3000 HP
You require 15 hits to kill enemy
You hit the enemy 4 times. Enemy drinks a 30000 HP healing potion.
Enemy hits you for 75% of 200000 points of damage.
You're dead.
LOL. Your way seems simpler.
What's with people who put their Ilvl in their Signatures? They probably have a big gold chain and saggy pants too.
Monster has 30000 HP
You hit for 3000 HP
You require 10 hits to kill enemy You hit the enemy 4 times. Enemy drinks a 30000 HP healing potion.
Enemy hits you for 200000 points of damage.
You're dead.
After patch:
Monster has 45000 HP
you hit for 3000 HP
You require 15 hits to kill enemy You hit the enemy 4 times. Enemy drinks a 45000 HP healing potion.
Enemy hits you for 25% of 200000 points of damage.
You're dead.
Fixed your math for ya.
And I corrected yours:
After patch:
Monster has 45000 HP
you hit for 3000 HP
You require 15 hits to kill enemy
You hit the enemy 4 times. Enemy drinks a 30000 HP healing potion.
Enemy hits you for 75% of 200000 points of damage.
You're dead.
LOL. Your way seems simpler.
LOL. It reminded me of this:
Oh no! A lurking grue slithered into the room and devoured you!
**** You have died ****
Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
0
instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
Monster has 45000 HP
you hit for 3000 HP
You require 15 hits to kill enemy
You hit the enemy 4 times. Enemy drinks a 30000 HP healing potion.
Enemy hits you for 75% of 200000 points of damage.
You're dead.
LOL. Your way seems simpler.
Ah yes! That's why it's good to proofread or have someone check your match for you. Many thanks!
I can confirm, all mobs from 70-73lev have 50% more hp and do really very little less damage, so now fights takes a lot more time and are harder than before for my 2.3k til tr, I cant imagine how looks fights now for support classes like dc or other less dps. Craptic really know how mess up game more every time.
OK - this change effectively means that for each mob in an encounter you will take 12.5% more damage than before over the duration of the encounter (on average). Unless you are BiS and doing huge overkill damage at the moment of course. For those saying it gives more chance for LS to proc, more Encounter rotations, more potion use, etc - negligible impact.
This is another nerf to solo play and survivability of non-tank classes in general. GG Cryptic. GG indeed...
Oh - and how annoying is this going to make Powries, where you have to kill them before they use their attack that does damage AND drains all your AP? There is literally no other way to avoid this attack unless you have plenty of CC.
Oh - and how annoying is this going to make Powries, where you have to kill them before they use their attack that does damage AND drains all your AP? There is literally no other way to avoid this attack unless you have plenty of CC.
My OP already lacked the DPS to kill them in time. NOW that's even less possible.
Oh - and how annoying is this going to make Powries, where you have to kill them before they use their attack that does damage AND drains all your AP? There is literally no other way to avoid this attack unless you have plenty of CC.
My OP already lacked the DPS to kill them in time. NOW that's even less possible.
OK - this change effectively means that for each mob in an encounter you will take 12.5% more damage than before over the duration of the encounter (on average). Unless you are BiS and doing huge overkill damage at the moment of course. For those saying it gives more chance for LS to proc, more Encounter rotations, more potion use, etc - negligible impact.
This is another nerf to solo play and survivability of non-tank classes in general. GG Cryptic. GG indeed...
It's not just lifesteal and potions, your math completely ignores healing from paladin or cleric party members, a healer companion, temporary HP or shield effects, and temporary damage mitigation/avoidance abilities, including your simple pressing Shift. It adds up to be significantly more than negligible. I'm not defending or condemning these changes, but this is much more complex than simply 150% x 75%.
Comments
You're arguing semantics, I made up the numbers on the spot and they arn't even close acurate, they just illustrate a point you seem to have missed. To clarify, the point is that lower enemy damage means less time wasted on defencive manouvers and more time spent of dealing damage, thus, a dps increase. I simply can't say how it will play out, if mobs will die faster or take longer untill I've tried it out.
True.
But then... what exactly is this change about?
Epic dungeons and skirmishes are not affected.
Lvl70 Areas are not affected.
Therefore, a char with IL 1600/1800 will still enter those areas and those lairs and die after few seconds.
Lethinath - DC
Fayn Fiddler - HR
Jean Fiddler - OP
Quinn Fiddler - TR
Tre'Davious Flynn - SW
Bogus Skullslicker - GF
Vanhankaupunginselk - CW
Alea - GWF
Noble Misfits
Atm it rather looks like they are working really hard on driving even more players away from the game with their changes... just saying, make campaign and open areas easy again, and epic dungeons and skirmishes can stay "epic" as they are.
This works correctly in game. I took my paladin to IWD and his dps is HORRIBLE. Given how long it took me to kill a group of 2 barbarians and 2 dogs in the intro quests they definitely would have respawned if the game didn't count from the *last* mob in a group to die.
I was worried about this as well, but Cryptic got this one right
https://www.theholycrusaders.com/
+1 as well here.
Your real damage output is 2/3rds what it used to be, but real damage taken is 25% lower. However, your life steal heals on the basis of nominal damage output; therefore, the amount of damage you heal relative to the amount of damage enemies deal is now higher. Before life steal was kind of useless, because sure you can heal to full every now on then on a major attack-but a lot of the time, you didn't ever get that heal to full because combat didn't last long enough. Now, you'll be in combat for a longer period of time, and life steal will proc at a time when it's relevant.
I didn't say it was a player buff. I just said it was a life steal buff. Each HP of healing is worth X amount of combat time. X is greater now than it used to be.
So, speaking from the perspective of a SW... there's nothing to like with this change.
Actually. They said: levels 6-~70 not 60-70. It may seem like semantics but it could change the whole discussion.
A 33% damage nerf on 70+ enemies is ridiculous.
A 33% damage nerf on <70 enemies is cruel.
It's probably all stored in database tables. An SQL statement or two could do it.
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Fixed your math for ya.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
And I corrected yours:
After patch:
Monster has 45000 HP
you hit for 3000 HP
You require 15 hits to kill enemy
You hit the enemy 4 times. Enemy drinks a 30000 HP healing potion.
Enemy hits you for 75% of 200000 points of damage.
You're dead.
LOL. Your way seems simpler.
LOL. It reminded me of this:
Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
Ah yes! That's why it's good to proofread or have someone check your match for you. Many thanks!
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
This is another nerf to solo play and survivability of non-tank classes in general. GG Cryptic. GG indeed...
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
My OP already lacked the DPS to kill them in time. NOW that's even less possible.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
It's not just lifesteal and potions, your math completely ignores healing from paladin or cleric party members, a healer companion, temporary HP or shield effects, and temporary damage mitigation/avoidance abilities, including your simple pressing Shift. It adds up to be significantly more than negligible. I'm not defending or condemning these changes, but this is much more complex than simply 150% x 75%.