Seriously.. can anyone sit here and say, WE SHOULD have to level longer, as a prime reason or feedback anyone has ever given?
Even as fractured as playerbases are I cannot remember one POST.. one asking for longer leveling. In fact its directly contrary to what we posted.. that the process from 61-70 was boring as heck.
Yes.. there have been many complaints about how hard lvl 73 mobs hit, expecially in IWD and WoD (two campaign areas) that make no sense to anyone (just drop them to 72..) fixed everything.. not what they did though.
I agree. I suggested the similar thing. Reduce all mobs 71-73 by one level. Fixed.
Instead. They give us a 33% damage nerf.
What's with people who put their Ilvl in their Signatures? They probably have a big gold chain and saggy pants too.
That's exactly what it does not do. If it was just a damage reduction you'd be right. But 25% less damage taken and requiring 50% more time is not an improvement for anyone. That's a potential (25% of the new 75% damage rate) damage increase from the same mob while it's alive.
I think that might depend. For me, quite of bit of the fight time is taken up dodging and kiting whilst I wait for cd's (cc abilities, pots/stones, etc) to come back. If the change to mob damage means that I can stand in and fight longer, shrugging off their lesser attacks more ably; then theoretically I should be able to unload more damage on than before, ending the fight quicker.
The only way to find that out though, is to wait for the servers to come up. It may be as folks are fearing, that this is not going to be a good change - but if what I say above holds out, it may be better (or even no real change). As we have not had the opportunity to test this, it seems to me a bit early for 'sky is falling' type rhetoric.
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mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
edited June 2015
There is no nerf to damage. I have done many tier 2 dungeons and the damage dealers classes great weapon fighter-scourge warlock-trickster rogue even hunter ranger was killing mobs like they was nothing. Ranger in pve is not weak that is a lie.
Rangers deal more damage than a wizard that is enough for me. I repeat pve.
If it also applies for dungeons i am happy for this will force parties to have one cw ( since cw dont deal
anymore so big damage)instead 2-3 which i always hated.
There you have it. Even a preschooler could understand. The damage per hit varies for every character. But the math NEVER LIES.
(A) Monsters have 50% more HP
or
(B) Players have 33% less damage
It doesn't really matter. Because:
A=B
That's still not a damage nerf. A damage nerf of 33% would be if... My anvil of doom dealt 33000 damage and after the patch it would be dealing 22000 damage. As i've mentioned we take 25% less damage, this combined with the higher enemy health points gives us more time to build up stacks, which results in us being able to deal damage faster. How is this a nerf?
Oh don't get me wrong, i agree with it being a buff to the mobs. But they also deal 25% less damage which is 1/4, so we should have enough time to finish them off before they finish us off.
I don't think you got the right exactly, they are not doing 1/4 damage. I read the patch note as 25% less meaning they take 25% off the final not reduce their damage to 25% of its previous numbers.
For example:
Mob does 1000 damage before change.
Mob does 750 damage after change.
So if mob has 50% more hit points, again I read that as calculate 50% of current total and add that to the max (i.e. a mob with 20000 HP before will now have 30000 HP after patch), they have more time to inflict damage which may mean that 25% reduction is not adequate for the HP buff.
mamalion1234Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,415Arc User
About solo and leveling if you are support class summon a striker companion. Companion will deal damage and also you will deal combat advantage. Always that i do on my support classes.
About solo and leveling if you are support class summon a striker companion. Companion will deal damage and also you will deal combat advantage. Always that i do on my support classes.
Doesn't matter. Add your damage and your companion's together and run the math. Same result every time.
Add your entire party's damage together including all buffs and potions and run the math. Same result every time.
If the dragon heralds get the 50% HP boost, we will be lucky to get 4 of them with 40 players
What's with people who put their Ilvl in their Signatures? They probably have a big gold chain and saggy pants too.
About solo and leveling if you are support class summon a striker companion. Companion will deal damage and also you will deal combat advantage. Always that i do on my support classes.
This still wont get you back to the pre-patch state. The fight will take ~50% longer. The problem for support classes (GF - prot and tact/OBP/DC - virt and faith) is usually not the incoming damage but the long fight due to low dps. They will get hit by this change the most. We still don't know if lvl70+ open world mobs are affected or not. If so, it will be a massive slap to the face for support classes - lucky me my 2 have all but last 2 ToT boons and I gave up OBP.
But seriously the math itself may be correct, but it doesn't work that way ingame. You are implying that with a damage nerf it takes more time to finish off enemies, which is not the case since we now can, A-tank the mob's hits better/longer and B-build up our, either defensive or passive damage stacks faster, due to their A-reduced damage and B-increased HP pools.
In the end, we will be dealing more damage, since it takes less time to utilize defensive mechanisms, such as block or dodge. This of course varies between all classes and paragon specs, but there goes the 33% nonesense.
Do all of you guys really think that such a big company as Cryptic/Arc with this huge player base really do things with numbers of 33% if it was a stupid, or uselss change? Do you guys really believe so? Everything has a reason, glad to see the supportive playerbase though. Would be nice of you all to type a "I love the game keep it up" once in a while but noooo.
True Story.
Last edited by ukatoenasni; Today at 06:09 AM. Reason: Grammar sucks before coffee.
... and what about the respawn rate of the mobs now?
You killed a part of the group at last, but then they respawn directly on top of you again?
If -and I realize that we're talking about Cryptic, so it might be a very big if- they did their programming right, the counter towards mob re-spawning doesn't start until the last creature dies. So you should remain good in that respect.
Yes, we are talking about PWE, and it would not surprise me, if the timer would start now, when they engage in combat... fun times ahead of us.
Do all of you guys really think that such a big company as Cryptic/Arc with this huge player base really do things with numbers of 33% if it was a stupid, or uselss change? Do you guys really believe so? Everything has a reason, glad to see the supportive playerbase though. Would be nice of you all to type a "I love the game keep it up" once in a while but noooo.
I love the game. I can't say keep it up though. Sorry.
Varric the Cursed Dwarven cursed to be Tiefling CW Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
Lets say your a TR, it takes 20 hits of sly flourish to kill the Monster. Except every 2 hits you have to dodge roll because enemys hit so hard you will die if you dont.
Since when do you have to dodge that much against lvl1-69 trash mobs? *And* have enough live steal to fill up your health with *one* additional hit?
Or:
If you would have been dead after 300% damage in 3 time units, could you stand 300% damage per 4 time units forever?
I get that you all say that but I found posts of myself from before I quit and that was a good year ago and even then people said omg this game is going to die, this and that, and look. still here. Still an active playerbase. I don't get it if I should believe all of you, where's the death spiral, been around for two years now!
True Story.
Last edited by ukatoenasni; Today at 06:09 AM. Reason: Grammar sucks before coffee.
I don't think some are quite understanding the impact the greater health pools will have.
Taking a typical example of a group of 2 CotHH Hurricanes and 1 Skirmsher in the third zone of Spinward Rise, as an average geared new level 70 (115 blues and Rank 5's) I'd typically be able to take out 1 mob before the others reached me, so let's say 2 mobs beating on me at 100% = 200%.
With the greater health pools, it's far less likely that I'd get a single mob down before getting hit, so I'd have 3 mobs beating on me at 75% = 225%.
Maybe it's a bit simplistic and doesn't factor in control and avoidance, but I honestly think geared players don't realize how hard some - supposedly solo - areas are for new and undergeared players.
I get that you all say that but I found posts of myself from before I quit and that was a good year ago and even then people said omg this game is going to die, this and that, and look. still here. Still an active playerbase. I don't get it if I should believe all of you, where's the death spiral, been around for two years now!
I don't get it if I should believe all of you, where's the death spiral, been around for two years now!
Not sure what to believe, eh?...look at the population charts on steam, they have recorded the ~70% dip in playerbase over time from when this game first started. Slowly but surely, slowly but surely.
I get that you all say that but I found posts of myself from before I quit and that was a good year ago and even then people said omg this game is going to die, this and that, and look. still here. Still an active playerbase. I don't get it if I should believe all of you, where's the death spiral, been around for two years now!
Its obviously not an accurate measurement you can look up how many people are playing the game month to month on steam and its probably not a bad proxy for the game population as a whole.
Also its technically free to play so its always going to have more people trying it out because why no. The resiliency of free to play to games seems to be very strong.
I'm a 4.4k wizard and I feel the game is not as fun as it should be for my gear level. At my level I SHOULD stomp all over everything PVE. It should be effortless. I should squish them like bugs. Why bother upgrading if it's still not fun?
People who want harder content need to stop upgrading.... oh wait. It all makes sense now.
What's with people who put their Ilvl in their Signatures? They probably have a big gold chain and saggy pants too.
I'm actually glad they increased hp & decreased damage.
The trash damage from dungeons was ridiculous, yet the T2 dungeons are melting like butter to a decent high end team. The last TOS run made me wonder if we were back in Mod 5.
they didn't fix the real issue, which is how hard stuff hits once your trying to do IWD/shar/epic dungeons (teir 1). People typically don't have good gear when doing that, expecting people have have good gear to tackle this is crazy. People usually do teir 1 (if they can't find people to carry them threw tier 2) to get gear to do teir 2. Also applies to doing shar/dread ring / IWD they do that because they don't have good enough gear to do tier 1 dungeons. Their is no progress to take, its look for a wallet warrior or someone who's smart and saved a buttload of refinement and leveled his enchantments / artifacts to a high level (legendary minimum) and group with them, and be the lone ungeared person. Kinda <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> if you look at it that way, a never ending circle of lacking self sustainability.
1-60 was fine and it actually scaled well, now 61-70 is where there was no continuation. Both being because the gear does not support the amount of damage being taken or the damage necessary to bring a mob down. As a SW main I had to change my build four times to be able to cope and even then I had to ask a GF friend to help me out. For my Alt DC I just shelled out and bought the campaigns either by buying relics or from the Zen Market.
They need to stop making the game so gear/class dependent. Everyone should be able to solo if they so choose.
ScyLent PvE GF Main S C Y L E N T PvE DC Alt ScyLent Lux PvE OP Alt Unrepentantgaming.com
Comments
I agree. I suggested the similar thing. Reduce all mobs 71-73 by one level. Fixed.
Instead. They give us a 33% damage nerf.
I think that might depend. For me, quite of bit of the fight time is taken up dodging and kiting whilst I wait for cd's (cc abilities, pots/stones, etc) to come back. If the change to mob damage means that I can stand in and fight longer, shrugging off their lesser attacks more ably; then theoretically I should be able to unload more damage on than before, ending the fight quicker.
The only way to find that out though, is to wait for the servers to come up. It may be as folks are fearing, that this is not going to be a good change - but if what I say above holds out, it may be better (or even no real change). As we have not had the opportunity to test this, it seems to me a bit early for 'sky is falling' type rhetoric.
Rangers deal more damage than a wizard that is enough for me. I repeat pve.
If it also applies for dungeons i am happy for this will force parties to have one cw ( since cw dont deal
anymore so big damage)instead 2-3 which i always hated.
That's still not a damage nerf. A damage nerf of 33% would be if... My anvil of doom dealt 33000 damage and after the patch it would be dealing 22000 damage. As i've mentioned we take 25% less damage, this combined with the higher enemy health points gives us more time to build up stacks, which results in us being able to deal damage faster. How is this a nerf?
I don't think you got the right exactly, they are not doing 1/4 damage. I read the patch note as 25% less meaning they take 25% off the final not reduce their damage to 25% of its previous numbers.
For example:
Mob does 1000 damage before change.
Mob does 750 damage after change.
So if mob has 50% more hit points, again I read that as calculate 50% of current total and add that to the max (i.e. a mob with 20000 HP before will now have 30000 HP after patch), they have more time to inflict damage which may mean that 25% reduction is not adequate for the HP buff.
That's not entirely accurate, because (B) would impact PvP and boss fights, which their mob HP increase does not do.
However, it is true that taking longer to kill mobs due to more HP, even with reduced damage, will still likely put us at a deficit.
glassdoor.com - Cryptic Studios Review
Doesn't matter. Add your damage and your companion's together and run the math. Same result every time.
Add your entire party's damage together including all buffs and potions and run the math. Same result every time.
If the dragon heralds get the 50% HP boost, we will be lucky to get 4 of them with 40 players
Then provide feedback
They seem to be hearing us and trying to fix things
In the end, we will be dealing more damage, since it takes less time to utilize defensive mechanisms, such as block or dodge. This of course varies between all classes and paragon specs, but there goes the 33% nonesense.
You killed a part of the group at last, but then they respawn directly on top of you again?
I love the game. I can't say keep it up though. Sorry.
Original Serenity Mostly Retired DC
Tokarek Bearded Dwarven OP Tankadin
JuiceHead Goofy Human GWF
Member of H3llzWarriors and Limitless.
Since when do you have to dodge that much against lvl1-69 trash mobs? *And* have enough live steal to fill up your health with *one* additional hit?
Or:
If you would have been dead after 300% damage in 3 time units, could you stand 300% damage per 4 time units forever?
Taking a typical example of a group of 2 CotHH Hurricanes and 1 Skirmsher in the third zone of Spinward Rise, as an average geared new level 70 (115 blues and Rank 5's) I'd typically be able to take out 1 mob before the others reached me, so let's say 2 mobs beating on me at 100% = 200%.
With the greater health pools, it's far less likely that I'd get a single mob down before getting hit, so I'd have 3 mobs beating on me at 75% = 225%.
Maybe it's a bit simplistic and doesn't factor in control and avoidance, but I honestly think geared players don't realize how hard some - supposedly solo - areas are for new and undergeared players.
Not sure what to believe, eh?...look at the population charts on steam, they have recorded the ~70% dip in playerbase over time from when this game first started. Slowly but surely, slowly but surely.
Its obviously not an accurate measurement you can look up how many people are playing the game month to month on steam and its probably not a bad proxy for the game population as a whole.
Also its technically free to play so its always going to have more people trying it out because why no. The resiliency of free to play to games seems to be very strong.
People who want harder content need to stop upgrading.... oh wait. It all makes sense now.
The trash damage from dungeons was ridiculous, yet the T2 dungeons are melting like butter to a decent high end team. The last TOS run made me wonder if we were back in Mod 5.
They need to stop making the game so gear/class dependent. Everyone should be able to solo if they so choose.
ScyLent PvE GF Main
S C Y L E N T PvE DC Alt
ScyLent Lux PvE OP Alt
Unrepentantgaming.com
I jacked my HR's defense up to 20k. Twenty thousand. HP is steady at 100k.
I still get one-shotted by trash mobs in T2's.
There's nothing reasonable about that.
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yeah it is really stupid to stack def and hp on dps/support class
and yes squishies should be oneshot in t2