IMHO this is very wrong. As has already been stated the main problem has *not* been addressed and these changes will likely cause other issues. It would be lol worthy if it wasn't so disappointing.
So how long has the PC version been around? Would not the PC version run into the same sort of behavior, if not I guess X-Box players are just a bunch of greedy HAMSTER. The point i'm trying to get at is if the PC version has not found a way to curb this behavior than I think X-Box may have a long way to go if it ever is fully addressed.
Before the maintenance there were no vote kick changes: freshly joined players getting kicked, boot & loot still there, no correct set up in the beginning (like 5 dpses), dpses joining instead of healers. Seems like nothing has changed.
After seeing the modifications to the VTK system I still think it should be removed completely from the game. It has solved nothing at all, people still kick each other out. The developers should deactivate the system as soon as the bossfight begins, not to let players boot each other because of the potential loot. But then again this could be said for even the miniboss fights, and then again the whole dungeon or skirmish. It really doesn't matter if it's the fault of the system or the community. The fact is that the VTK system is just not working, it can't fulfill its original purpose. It just makes the experience worse for everyone. It should be removed and let the Queue system assemble adequate teams.
After seeing the modifications to the VTK system I still think it should be removed completely from the game. It has solved nothing at all, people still kick each other out. The developers should deactivate the system as soon as the bossfight begins, not to let players boot each other because of the potential loot. But then again this could be said for even the miniboss fights, and then again the whole dungeon or skirmish. It really doesn't matter if it's the fault of the system or the community. The fact is that the VTK system is just not working, it can't fulfill its original purpose. It just makes the experience worse for everyone. It should be removed and let the Queue system assemble adequate teams.
They already showed the society that they do not care. They said they would implement changes and address the issue, and they did not do that. So basically this means that people should stop complaining and adapt or leave the game, because there is no other way I guess. They will loose tons of cash because of a shrinking player base, but hey, they deserve that.
I think the Reality of the current VTK system encourages Guild/Friend Play. As said before, if you are in the Majority, you never have to worry about being kicked. Is it fair, no. But to be Honest, I found Guild so that when I run Dungeons I don't have to worry about being kicked at the end. While I really want the Random Drop, I am still happy with the chest at the end. The VTK at the ends sucks because the kicked people do not even get the Chest that they Earned.
It's in the companies best interest to keep the VTK system financially. The current VTK issues forces you to go out and find a group or a guild. The majority of people who find a group or guild to play with regularly tend to enjoy the game more and invest more time in it. They are also the people that are more likely to spend money on the game over a lone wolf type of player.
Like it or not the current VTK system even if it stays broken isn't going to break the game or cause it to fail. Like someone said before. Players will adapt and those players that do will most likely be players that are willing to pay for content more often.
LMAO, So it seems as though the developers havn't even bothered to read the 22 page feedback thread about this.
They havn't even fixed the number one issue which was kicking at boss loot drops and instead added a 3 minute timer which means you waste more of your time in a dungeon and then get to see the protectors enclave loading screen.
And really, are you having a laugh with putting this in:
'but we firmly encourage adventurers to not kick your own party members unless absolutely necessary'
Yeah well let me tell you when they think its absolutely necessary, when its at the boss loot drops thats when.
You lot just seem to talk the talk but not walk the walk.
This. Obviously the developers don't every play their own game. Why is it better for me to waste 3 mins and THEN get kicked? Kicked because there's another CW in the group? Kicked because they want the loot for themselves. Kicked because they want to steal my dungeon at the last boss. Kicked because they don't like my outfit (which is smashing by the way). The list goes on and on...
I witnessed it last night, a second GW joined, I voted no but the GW was still kicked.
The metrics may indeed show that overall people who guild together play longer and purchase more, regardless of how much the system that might encourage them to guild upsets how many other players. That a lot of groups of two or three greedy jerk scum players could and would kick two or three other group members in a dungeon - at the final boss (and even not) - so they could grab an item or items and get m0ar astrals might not be important to business, regardless of how wrong that is on so many levels. That many of us prefer a two person team or pick up groups and randoms, don't really want to be in a guild, and have the same playing and purchasing habits may be statistically unimportant to the f2p model. Perhaps that's even fine in the more selfish realms of the PC, but it's not really in the spirit of console, is it?
None of that is really important though. If you say you are against behaviors and say that you'll change it for the better of everyone, what's the point of putting in time and effort to change anything if you have no real idea what the problem is or how to fix it. What's the point of saying it's not a good thing and you don't like it that way and something must be done, if it's what you prefer it to be?
More to the issue, it would seem that letting 2 players remove up to another 3 players who had contributed to the success of the 5, just so the 2 can be mean or gain an economic benefit (and make most of the minutes or hours the other 3 spent in large part worth little other than fairly trivial drops) is against the rules. Why have rules against making the experiences of others frustrating or lesser if you're going to have a system in place that lets opportunists take advantage. Why have rules in effect if you just let people break them whenever they want and then do nothing. Although maybe that only gets done out of game. Or maybe this system as now just needs to be refined some more than it was, or maybe the new voting system got left off accidentally, or maybe there's a fix in the loot behavior that's broken and so we have a broken change in the drop bidding system that requires another button press to get out of.
There was a decent interview with the Executive Producer of the game a couple weeks ago. Not sure if it has already been posted. https://youtube.com/watch?v=k423nt954Gc
The key take aways I got were:
The current fixes were "low hanging fruit" i.e. something easy to do that they could get into the most recent patch, with the development time constraints.
The are still working on more robust fixes.
The Executive Producer plays the game and these people who constantly kick have kicked him, which I found slightly amusing.
I agree that though it could make sense financially that it wouldn't work in practice. I highly doubt that what I posted before is actually why it wasn't fixed and I'm assuming it's more that the devs just didn't listen closely enough to what the players were having issues with. If it is the case that they purposefully left the boot & loot fix out, I would be disappointed.
They obviously had majority vote and they booted out the other 2 players so they could split the astral diamonds they will get from the horn between the three of them.
People like that need to be at least put on double secret probation if not banned. They aren't needed in the community, period.
I think the majority people who complain about boot & looting are being cry babies
What a wonderful cooperative attitude to have. I prefer to call them normal decent humans though. Good sportspeople, honest, fair, trustworthy, valuable allies in the fight against dragonkind. People who expect a group that's grouped works as a group, benefits as a group, and if you don't get those boots, you get something you can sell to get them, or that you get them next time. Not that you're going back to the Enclave so the other people can have them all for themselves. It's abusing the system, and pointing that out isn't crying about it.
It's in the companies best interest to keep the VTK system financially.
I doubt that. Probably not at all even on PC. For every 1 person that complains somehow someplace, there are 5 or 10 or 20 or more that don't. Anything seen is just the iceberg tip, and numbers of unhappy people on the verge of quitting and badmouthing the game here and to friends isn't all that economically viable long term. On the other hand, sure, if a lot of people cycle in to replace those leaving and have the same spending habits and get locked in, and don't learn about rotten stinking insides until getting to endgame and finding out but it's too late to do anything... Hardly optimal. Sure though, that could go on for a while, but there's only so many people on the planet, and not all of them have an XB One. Eventually you run out and that isn't a recipe for success at all.
Yet like has been said, we don't necessarily know the whole story about the loot/vtk/kicking systems (not that they've been at all effective in relaying that information to anyone). A major expansion release on a platform (for a game that's been running on another platform for two years especially) seems a good time and enough time to put something robust in place. Maybe 3 months on the One hasn't been long enough, but add in the PC, and then ask how long does it take to fix an unfair bad rule-breaking if not game-breaking system in a game on a console that allegedly has 1,600,000 players in 3 months. IDK.
Some better communication seems a start, as to me at least there was an impression there was some sort of actual fix in this patch/expansion/add-on. A lot of people didn't expect necessarily a full long-term fix, but we at least thought it was more than just "please don't kick people okay".
Honestly, this is a stupid fix for kicking. I HATE game devs these days, this is in general nothing personal but game devs man they just cant come up with simple solutions.
I have quit neverwinter, if you cant fix a simple kick mechanic, then obviously this game is not a serious endeavor. If you dont take it seriously then I wont.
Alright, so personally I don't really enjoy the fact that people have the ability to boot people for drops, but on the other hand I don't really care if they fix boot & loot. pretty much 99% of the people I associate with boot & loots. Like for instance one of my friends was running lostmauth 2 days ago with 2 of his friends and a horn dropped. They obviously had majority vote and they booted out the other 2 players so they could split the astral diamonds they will get from the horn between the three of them.
I think the majority people who complain about boot & looting are being cry babies to be honest. I run solo pretty much 60% of the time I have only been boot n looted once over the past month and that was because i was helping out this 4 man squad beat the dracolich, because they were begging me and they booted me as soon as he died, which was expected and fair play to them I guess. I'm smart enough to realize that when I see three people in the same guild or three people who look like they are in the same party to leave, because why risk wasting my time on running a dungeon with them if i'm only going to get booted for the drop? time is money my friends. it's honestly not that hard to find a guild of people to run with, because people are advertising for people to join their guild all the time. stop complaining and make some friends geez.
Please tell me that if this idiot has a linked account he has been banned from playing now.
My friends and I thought up a much better fix weeks ago, after 1 minute of brainstorming lol.
1) Can't initiate a VTK during combat
2) Can't initiate a VTK while there is a loot roll going.
3) Can't initiate a VTK after final boss is dead (This one is likely pointless, but I have been booted once before after loot roll was completed, but before getting chest...I mean...why? lol)
THAT'S IT!!!! Fixes everything everything except people being jerks (Like booting you right outside the final bosses room or something), but so long as there's a boot system at all...there will still be jerks. I know there are channels on Twitch devoted to just booting people to make people mad....
THIS!!! Its really not that hard. Very disappointed its taken so long to implement such a benign and inappropriate fix for a problem.
Yesterday. Regular Shores. Mid-way through. Draconic Ring of the Shores dropped. Wait about 20 seconds. Enclave Loading Screen. /sigh. <-- Fix this behaviour pls! The suggestions above would do that.
Why was there even a system where an item worth 50 or 100 or 250 (whatever) KAD drops rarely randomly and just about anyone can get rid of everyone else to grab it themselves. Why is that even there at all ever. They get it and quit the activity, why go on, they got what they wanted - stuff, at everyone else's expense. What's the point, and it doesn't fit.
There shouldn't even be a way to manually kick anyone else directly after say the first minute after the five people get into the dungeon or skirmish. Let the AFK system drop those who aren't there, and people who want to exit the group because there's already a [same class] there can leave on their own. If the system auto-fills same type/class/etc to keep things going, what's the problem. It still also allows groups to run together if they want 5 with nobody else. After all, if the point is to always have 5, why let 4 kick the 5th until there's just 4 or 2 kick the 3 until there's just 2. (And if that's okay, why not let closed groups of less than 5 queue to begin with?) It's confusing what the decision process was to set up the current system, and even more confusing as to why these considerations don't seem to be being considered.
The only thing that making it more like PvP (but with autofill) wouldn't take into account I suppose is those who are troublemaker not afk people just griefing or crafting or pulling mobs and dying. Those not being helpful or being detrimental. That seems like a terrible way to waste time, and get a bad rep and complaints in and out of game. It also seems less likely and prevalent, in great part solved by the gearscore requirements in epics, and also (in the case of weaker players specced wrong) tending to make more teamwork required. Either way, many players would rather have disruptive players that can be taken care of later or dealt with by monitors, than having it like it is now. Wondering if at any point some couple of jerks are going to suddenly kick anyone they can gang up on, like the gutter-trash cowards they are.
Again though, the communication of what and why and how and when for fixing this system could be a lot better, that's something everyone can probably agree with.
Alright so this is getting really really frustrating. Lets start off by saying I have been kicked several times, I also been apart of groups who have kicked others due to needing a certain team player etc.. When i first started playing, now my character is pretty high Stat'd so I run with anything even the same class as me I don't care. I finally helped my GF get to level 60 and I was watching her run dungeons and they beat the final boss and she keeps getting kicked, its ridiculous. She needs the chest not even the loot DROP. This is really frustrating, I can deal with the stability issues and be hopeful they keep improving over time. But this can be a simple FIX!. JUST TURN OFF VOTE KICKING ONCE A BOSS FIGHT ENCOUNTER IS GOING ON ANDDDD UP UNTIL 3 MINS AFTER SO ALL THE LOOT IS PICKED UP AND CHEST ARE OPENED. THIS SHOULD GO FOR EVERY BOSS FIGHT IN THE DUNGEON. Honestly the picking up loot sucks as well, why would you guys make it more inconvenient to pick up loot?!! Please please please fix this asap. THIS IS THE MOST CONTROVERSIAL THING IN THE GAME RIGHT NOW. jesus lol
ORR How about getting rid of the vote kick totally????? so if youre having trouble you just leave?/ Thats much better, OR Make the vote kick need 4 votes. you need to do one of the above, this shlt is annoying.
I think vtk should be disabled during combat, during a loot roll, and after the end chest has been unlocked. I'm not a programmer, but I don't think that would be to difficult to implement into the game. I do think that would fix many of the worst problems with booting in this game. Honestly though, it's seems to have gotten somewhat better after the update. I've only been booting one time since then and the team's do seem to be balanced a lot better. Maybe I've just been lucky lately? With that said, I still run directly to the chest after the boss falls.
For the love of god just remove the vote to kick . Why is it so hard to see it doesn't work. I have 16 60s because I can't ever run dungeons with anybody but my devoted clerics which I was forced to make because of your vote to kick and still after patch can't run any dungeon after waiting 30 min to even que up for one
Yeah they made the queue system to be HAMSTER: if no clerics/tanks are queued up, you get a 5 dps set up and then getting a healer/tank in is nearly impossible (because if you kick DPS, the system tried to get DPS in).
You can't remove vote to kick, but you can do what was recommended: new players cannot kick for 3-5 minutes, you can't kick when the loot screen is up, you can't kick during and after the main boss fight.
And they should remove the stupid priority system which is based on what class you kick so that people would not get stuck at CN boss with 5 11k GS dpses. If queue cannot guarantee a fresh run with cleric and tank, then it should not work this way. The smarter way would be prioritizing healer/tank if there is none after a dps gets kicked, and getting DPS in only if there is no healer/tank available. So if you kick one of the five DPSes, you can actually hope to get the class you need.
Tiamat was supposed to save this game and bring people back and look what happened: tons of new bugs, PvE queues are broken ("You are going to be removed from map in 5..."), PvP is broken, Looting freezes you, permanent freezes...
Well it's certainly true there's some degree of replacing type with type going on, but there are also (at least in CN) certainly no timers, majority rule versus two. And a lot of waiting around just to have every new person kicked as soon as they joined, until you get your "random" fill which is a guildy. (AND ONCE AGAIN that minimum GS is BS, the 10K die really easy tbh, it didn't seem to matter the spec (unless there are three 20K and above etc). Or like the guys from um something I was tagging along with (yes, 3 players can run that dungeon and kill the dragolich) who kicked me while I was in the chest (why? it's class-specific bound right?) after I had already passed all loot in the run including enchants and runes, didn't bother them by picking up garbage drops, and already passed on the boss drop. Yes, picked up and passed the non-class boss drop already. Perplexing. Or like the slime from a-h o' les of neverwinter guild, just as soon as a couple of them joined and they just get rid of everyone else.
Fixing this broken system (that seems very much unchanged) should be a first priority, in the interest of both fairness and the rules. Not an unimportant add-on they *might* one day get to.
VTK should be eliminated completely ,it serves no real purpose with exception of allowing a group to move forward on the map when a player is disconnected which is the actual problem that needs to be addressed, or in the case of say the Dread Vault where new players are added at the start of the map instead of where the group is preventing the group moving forward.
I didn't feel any of the changes onvote kicking. I tried to go farm greater marks on pirate king. there was this four man guys waiting to go on boss. They kicked me on my GWF 3 times in a row (I have 17k gs and I can solo this epic dungeons), yet the dumbasses kept kicking me. when they finally let me do it, the entire group died and I FINISHED the boss pretty quick by myself. Soon as the boss was dead, they vote kicked so I couldnt even ge the loot from the boss I pretty much solo by myself.
VTK should be eliminated completely ,it serves no real purpose with exception of allowing a group to move forward on the map when a player is disconnected which is the actual problem that needs to be addressed, or in the case of say the Dread Vault where new players are added at the start of the map instead of where the group is preventing the group moving forward.
agree. it is stupid. or we could at least join the instances for those dungeons ourselves.
Here's a suggestion: have the system track each player's VTK initiations. Basically, you get a set number per day, week, etc. This would eventually kill off that guy who pouts and constantly starts a vote when he doesn't get his way. The group members would also have to think about whether they really want to kick a poor guy off using a valuable VTK vote. There should be a cost to HAMSTER over someone. Frankly, we gamers should be less selfish and more forgiving - teach rather than kick to the curb. Then, only for the truly hopeless...if they wont leave voluntarily, the dreaded VTK. Really - how valuable is your time spent playing a game? Take a few minutes to instruct others what to do. Quit being in such a hurry to run through as fast as possible and irritating everyone else when they don't follow you and you start a VTK.
Comments
They already showed the society that they do not care. They said they would implement changes and address the issue, and they did not do that. So basically this means that people should stop complaining and adapt or leave the game, because there is no other way I guess. They will loose tons of cash because of a shrinking player base, but hey, they deserve that.
Like it or not the current VTK system even if it stays broken isn't going to break the game or cause it to fail. Like someone said before. Players will adapt and those players that do will most likely be players that are willing to pay for content more often.
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I witnessed it last night, a second GW joined, I voted no but the GW was still kicked.
.. Teucer (HR) / Maximus Decimus (DC) .. GT: ApexDemon
None of that is really important though. If you say you are against behaviors and say that you'll change it for the better of everyone, what's the point of putting in time and effort to change anything if you have no real idea what the problem is or how to fix it. What's the point of saying it's not a good thing and you don't like it that way and something must be done, if it's what you prefer it to be?
More to the issue, it would seem that letting 2 players remove up to another 3 players who had contributed to the success of the 5, just so the 2 can be mean or gain an economic benefit (and make most of the minutes or hours the other 3 spent in large part worth little other than fairly trivial drops) is against the rules. Why have rules against making the experiences of others frustrating or lesser if you're going to have a system in place that lets opportunists take advantage. Why have rules in effect if you just let people break them whenever they want and then do nothing. Although maybe that only gets done out of game. Or maybe this system as now just needs to be refined some more than it was, or maybe the new voting system got left off accidentally, or maybe there's a fix in the loot behavior that's broken and so we have a broken change in the drop bidding system that requires another button press to get out of.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=k423nt954Gc
The key take aways I got were:
The current fixes were "low hanging fruit" i.e. something easy to do that they could get into the most recent patch, with the development time constraints.
The are still working on more robust fixes.
The Executive Producer plays the game and these people who constantly kick have kicked him, which I found slightly amusing.
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I doubt that. Probably not at all even on PC. For every 1 person that complains somehow someplace, there are 5 or 10 or 20 or more that don't. Anything seen is just the iceberg tip, and numbers of unhappy people on the verge of quitting and badmouthing the game here and to friends isn't all that economically viable long term. On the other hand, sure, if a lot of people cycle in to replace those leaving and have the same spending habits and get locked in, and don't learn about rotten stinking insides until getting to endgame and finding out but it's too late to do anything... Hardly optimal. Sure though, that could go on for a while, but there's only so many people on the planet, and not all of them have an XB One. Eventually you run out and that isn't a recipe for success at all.
Yet like has been said, we don't necessarily know the whole story about the loot/vtk/kicking systems (not that they've been at all effective in relaying that information to anyone). A major expansion release on a platform (for a game that's been running on another platform for two years especially) seems a good time and enough time to put something robust in place. Maybe 3 months on the One hasn't been long enough, but add in the PC, and then ask how long does it take to fix an unfair bad rule-breaking if not game-breaking system in a game on a console that allegedly has 1,600,000 players in 3 months. IDK.
Some better communication seems a start, as to me at least there was an impression there was some sort of actual fix in this patch/expansion/add-on. A lot of people didn't expect necessarily a full long-term fix, but we at least thought it was more than just "please don't kick people okay".
It's simple. When you queue you pick an orientation that is pre-prepared for your class.
[] Tank = Guardian Fighter | Great Weapon Fighter
[] DPS = Everyone Else including the GWF
[] Healer= Devoted Cleric
Now when you queue for the dungeon you get a party that ACTUALLY is composed.
As for the VTK system, you solve it simply by disabling it once the boss has been engaged you're done. No more voting to kick.
I have quit neverwinter, if you cant fix a simple kick mechanic, then obviously this game is not a serious endeavor. If you dont take it seriously then I wont.
REMOVE VOTE KICKING ALTOGETHER
Do how it works in pvp that simple
Jeeze
By utilizing the queu, you should be stuck with who you get..if you dont like the party..leave find another. Kicking is stupid and ONLY FOR ABUSE
Please tell me that if this idiot has a linked account he has been banned from playing now.
THIS!!! Its really not that hard. Very disappointed its taken so long to implement such a benign and inappropriate fix for a problem.
Yesterday. Regular Shores. Mid-way through. Draconic Ring of the Shores dropped. Wait about 20 seconds. Enclave Loading Screen. /sigh. <-- Fix this behaviour pls! The suggestions above would do that.
There shouldn't even be a way to manually kick anyone else directly after say the first minute after the five people get into the dungeon or skirmish. Let the AFK system drop those who aren't there, and people who want to exit the group because there's already a [same class] there can leave on their own. If the system auto-fills same type/class/etc to keep things going, what's the problem. It still also allows groups to run together if they want 5 with nobody else. After all, if the point is to always have 5, why let 4 kick the 5th until there's just 4 or 2 kick the 3 until there's just 2. (And if that's okay, why not let closed groups of less than 5 queue to begin with?) It's confusing what the decision process was to set up the current system, and even more confusing as to why these considerations don't seem to be being considered.
The only thing that making it more like PvP (but with autofill) wouldn't take into account I suppose is those who are troublemaker not afk people just griefing or crafting or pulling mobs and dying. Those not being helpful or being detrimental. That seems like a terrible way to waste time, and get a bad rep and complaints in and out of game. It also seems less likely and prevalent, in great part solved by the gearscore requirements in epics, and also (in the case of weaker players specced wrong) tending to make more teamwork required. Either way, many players would rather have disruptive players that can be taken care of later or dealt with by monitors, than having it like it is now. Wondering if at any point some couple of jerks are going to suddenly kick anyone they can gang up on, like the gutter-trash cowards they are.
Again though, the communication of what and why and how and when for fixing this system could be a lot better, that's something everyone can probably agree with.
If you use the random queu..then expect to not have the best players. If you want the perfect team, get a group together.
Queu is to quickly get playing, not to vote kick.
If someone os greifing or messing around, thats the odds you deal with when random grouping.
In pvp you cant kick yet they can run in circles at the fire...big deal. Who cares
Matter of fact, I rarely see anyone purposefully HAMSTER around in dungeon runs..I DO see bad players..but not griefers.
The only griefers I see are vote kickers.
Remove it and ill return.
You can't remove vote to kick, but you can do what was recommended: new players cannot kick for 3-5 minutes, you can't kick when the loot screen is up, you can't kick during and after the main boss fight.
And they should remove the stupid priority system which is based on what class you kick so that people would not get stuck at CN boss with 5 11k GS dpses. If queue cannot guarantee a fresh run with cleric and tank, then it should not work this way. The smarter way would be prioritizing healer/tank if there is none after a dps gets kicked, and getting DPS in only if there is no healer/tank available. So if you kick one of the five DPSes, you can actually hope to get the class you need.
Tiamat was supposed to save this game and bring people back and look what happened: tons of new bugs, PvE queues are broken ("You are going to be removed from map in 5..."), PvP is broken, Looting freezes you, permanent freezes...
Fixing this broken system (that seems very much unchanged) should be a first priority, in the interest of both fairness and the rules. Not an unimportant add-on they *might* one day get to.
GREAT JOB Cryptic.
DENIAL
agree. it is stupid. or we could at least join the instances for those dungeons ourselves.
DENIAL