I wasnt asking for any nerf or something. It was just meant to show what damage stacking can do, a lot of damage.
Potato you cannot understand that HR like Intergalactic or others good ones, not you, capable almost perma root target?
SO WE CAN'T BUILD STACKS and deal massive damage. Is it difficult to understand? Or it's just yours pugy POV?
Nope, it's not. A class require a lot of skillplay atm. No more roar, no more intimidation. But yes, strategy, movement and timing. That's how i like it. All we need are improve our CC abilities and be able to dodge piersing hits like other classes.
...and then, afterwards, a subsequent nerf to damage, since with increased combat efficiency and much more pleasant combat management overall, there's no way the GWFs should be swinging around that much stupid amounts of straight-up damage buffs.
If you're asking for a fix/tweak to the GWFs without a subsequent drop in damage, then that's unacceptable.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
If we get more reliable attacks/ mechanics, damage should drop.
Right now what makes gwf pretty much balanced is the need to build up stacks. So if you focus the gwf heavily from the start when he's weak, and kite unstoppable, you can counter him.
If you let him get momentum, he becomes harder and harder to stop.
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icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited July 2015
Make Indomitable strike deal less dmg! but Faster Animation and Piercing damage!!!!
Make Indomitable strike deal less dmg! but Faster Animation and Piercing damage!!!!
If anything needs faster animation it's WepMaster's Strike
If anything needs piercing damage it's Punishing Charge.
I've actually found out PC is extremely entertaining and useful in dealing with dodge/teleport classes. Close in and make them feel threatened, and they dodge away. PC to follow. Same with TR -- as he dodges, PC to follow. Follow 3 of his dodges this way, sprint to the 4th and bam, you have almost full sprint left, the TR's out of dodges, stealth or not he ain't getting away from you.
...but the problem being PC is currently so low in damage that it's a pure utility gap closer, and takes one of your 3 encounter slots, leaving only two to fight with, which puts you in a perpetual state of lack of damage if you're not a Destro.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
No piercing damage on IBS.
But less damage and faster animation to hit directly like restoring strike, yes. At least destroyers would be able to benefit from the feated IBS in PvP too, in a more reliable way.
Or else, make stuns undeflectable cause the whole stun+IBS right now is pretty much a russian roulette. Where other classes know that their rotation will work and only damage will change, our stun+IBS rotation is basically a chance to land the whole rotation. And a chance that your stun gets deflected, making IBS impossible to land. Also, stun deflected has no visual indication. So, as an added issue, since the GWF must stun+IBS fast, he is forced to shoot IBS and hope the stun was not deflected. With prone you could see the enemy getting up/ not going down and cancel IBS. Now, you shoot it and hope the enemy has not deflected your stun.
In fact, for example, if you look at Sobek PvP, he uses a daggers+FLS+restoring strike rotation. Expecially on TRs.
That's how unreliable FLS+IBS combo is, expecially on classes with good deflect chance.
Meh that LoL proc. 21k mitigated to 7k...still, it's a free 7k damage. Which means that 52k IBS crit got an added 7k damage, roughly a 15% (!) increase the overall damage of that hit. On high crit chance builds talk about powerful.
For a passive damage proc imho it's too much. Should be flat weapon damage and stop.
Which means a GWF gets 2166 damage on each crit. Not 7k. Let's say you crit 3 times during a rotation, it's 21k damage for free. Now think about how much overall damage it adds in a full fight.
Lathander set heals you from 25% of total HP (25k usually), on time with SF. Like 3-4 LoL set procs. And bugs out with stuff like Anvil of Doom that usually completely cancel the set healing.
Other set bonuses don't even come close to that damage.
However, talking about that IBS hit:
- 52k crit, means 25k normal hit
- that damage is reached through: 50% damage increase from capstone, 36% from destroyer stacks, 40% from daggers, plus mark buff (don't remember the % but it's also piercing), 30% from IBS feat
All that damage buff to reach 25k hit, 50k crit, on a power that is also quite difficult to land and usually requires either CC first or a lot of skills to anticipate the enemy movements.
It's not the base damage but the awful amount of stacks needed.
Increase base damage of our dps powers, IBS included , make our powers all faster and possible to land directly, then decrease damage buffs that are the REAL source of those big hits. Not the power itself. The power itself has a puny base damage.
If stuns are changed to be undeflectable, Still, vs elven battle users you cannot fls---> ibs. They literally move again in a split second. So in the end you have to change rotation on some targets depending from enchants they use. Which means no ibs on elven battle users due to it being so dependent from previous stun.
LoL set is badly needed on a gwf to deal some decent damage. We're striker in the first and "defender" (yeah we are both laughing) as 2nd role.
We can't perma control anyone nor have we good utility abilities to help our teammates.
Which leads me personally to slot only damage encounters like hidden daggers, RS & IBS.
Only thing we can deliver is some decent damage.
It's not even enough damage in comparison to the aspects we're lacking in heavily.
What I found laughable that GWFs do that much dmg (1:2 compared to other dps classes) in TOS and Tiamat and still having problems...
stock and stone I can master, but there's a Wizard to manage here!
I would say IBS doesn't hit hard enough with no stacks. Base damage should be up 40% in trade off daggers buff as Aurox said.
PS: on potatoes it should deal 100% crit chance plus piercing trough stealth.
HAHAHAHA I agree on the PS part. can we get DEVS to make a special code please? I actually argued with Sicarius who said Shocking Bypassing DR was fine and TRs needed a damage buff to say that GWFs while Unstoppable need stealth reveal then. If they cn bypass our defensive tab mechanic we should bypass theirs.
This is 10000% accurate. What GWfs really need is a massive boost to BASE damage at the expense of Daggers. So remove the stackable damage bonus from hidden daggers. In PVP this will end up being between a 40-80% damage reduction. THEN add that 40% damage increase to the BASE damage of the class.
Then I would remove Powerful Challenge 15% damage bonus and make Strength = 2% damage (up from 1%). This would be another "net zero change" for GWFs with 25 STR (mind you STR is our PRIMARY stat).
Then I was talking to Roidz last night also Dom as well and we thought it MIGHT be a good idea to remove the 20% damage bonus from Mark altogether. Mark would only provide combat advantage which also provides Combat Adv damage bonus. This would reduce GFs damage by 20% as well as GWFs. So this too could be added to the base of the GWF class.
All of this removes the reliance on Mark and Daggers along with a Sentinel feat. Which you THEN could use that Sent feat as a way to mitigate incoming damage instead. I would also rework Countless Scars to work in REVERSE what it does now. Currently its another "negation" that stacks 15 times @ 1% each. I would reverse this so the GWF has MORE DR initially and then LOSES that DR as hit. This alows PVE GWFs to tank better and actually hurts PVP GWFs tankiness.
For those that are ignorant: IBS isnt the issue. IBS on a DUMMY without stacks hit for like 10-12k. Its when you build up ALL the stacks + mark + CAB etc that IBS will hit dummies for 150k+ and then when you add debuffs or ITF - I hit a DC for 100k last night.
The MAX potential to hit hard IMO is too much, but the stacking mechanic we have now is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. So a reduction of "top potential" DPS is warranted but it needs to be MUCH easier to build up stacks.
satsunohadoMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 71Arc User
gwf is unperformerce , and still <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> noob cry how op they are, cry on your <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> gears rather than complain gwf is OP. stupid NUB
Comments
Lol you are amazing
...and then, afterwards, a subsequent nerf to damage, since with increased combat efficiency and much more pleasant combat management overall, there's no way the GWFs should be swinging around that much stupid amounts of straight-up damage buffs.
If you're asking for a fix/tweak to the GWFs without a subsequent drop in damage, then that's unacceptable.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Right now what makes gwf pretty much balanced is the need to build up stacks. So if you focus the gwf heavily from the start when he's weak, and kite unstoppable, you can counter him.
If you let him get momentum, he becomes harder and harder to stop.
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
If anything needs faster animation it's WepMaster's Strike
If anything needs piercing damage it's Punishing Charge.
I've actually found out PC is extremely entertaining and useful in dealing with dodge/teleport classes. Close in and make them feel threatened, and they dodge away. PC to follow. Same with TR -- as he dodges, PC to follow. Follow 3 of his dodges this way, sprint to the 4th and bam, you have almost full sprint left, the TR's out of dodges, stealth or not he ain't getting away from you.
...but the problem being PC is currently so low in damage that it's a pure utility gap closer, and takes one of your 3 encounter slots, leaving only two to fight with, which puts you in a perpetual state of lack of damage if you're not a Destro.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
But less damage and faster animation to hit directly like restoring strike, yes. At least destroyers would be able to benefit from the feated IBS in PvP too, in a more reliable way.
Or else, make stuns undeflectable cause the whole stun+IBS right now is pretty much a russian roulette. Where other classes know that their rotation will work and only damage will change, our stun+IBS rotation is basically a chance to land the whole rotation. And a chance that your stun gets deflected, making IBS impossible to land. Also, stun deflected has no visual indication. So, as an added issue, since the GWF must stun+IBS fast, he is forced to shoot IBS and hope the stun was not deflected. With prone you could see the enemy getting up/ not going down and cancel IBS. Now, you shoot it and hope the enemy has not deflected your stun.
In fact, for example, if you look at Sobek PvP, he uses a daggers+FLS+restoring strike rotation. Expecially on TRs.
That's how unreliable FLS+IBS combo is, expecially on classes with good deflect chance.
For a passive damage proc imho it's too much. Should be flat weapon damage and stop.
Which means a GWF gets 2166 damage on each crit. Not 7k. Let's say you crit 3 times during a rotation, it's 21k damage for free. Now think about how much overall damage it adds in a full fight.
Lathander set heals you from 25% of total HP (25k usually), on time with SF. Like 3-4 LoL set procs. And bugs out with stuff like Anvil of Doom that usually completely cancel the set healing.
Other set bonuses don't even come close to that damage.
However, talking about that IBS hit:
- 52k crit, means 25k normal hit
- that damage is reached through: 50% damage increase from capstone, 36% from destroyer stacks, 40% from daggers, plus mark buff (don't remember the % but it's also piercing), 30% from IBS feat
All that damage buff to reach 25k hit, 50k crit, on a power that is also quite difficult to land and usually requires either CC first or a lot of skills to anticipate the enemy movements.
It's not the base damage but the awful amount of stacks needed.
Increase base damage of our dps powers, IBS included , make our powers all faster and possible to land directly, then decrease damage buffs that are the REAL source of those big hits. Not the power itself. The power itself has a puny base damage.
I'd prefer a direct hit type of encounter.
What I found laughable that GWFs do that much dmg (1:2 compared to other dps classes) in TOS and Tiamat and still having problems...
HAHAHAHA I agree on the PS part. can we get DEVS to make a special code please? I actually argued with Sicarius who said Shocking Bypassing DR was fine and TRs needed a damage buff to say that GWFs while Unstoppable need stealth reveal then. If they cn bypass our defensive tab mechanic we should bypass theirs.
This is 10000% accurate. What GWfs really need is a massive boost to BASE damage at the expense of Daggers. So remove the stackable damage bonus from hidden daggers. In PVP this will end up being between a 40-80% damage reduction. THEN add that 40% damage increase to the BASE damage of the class.
Then I would remove Powerful Challenge 15% damage bonus and make Strength = 2% damage (up from 1%). This would be another "net zero change" for GWFs with 25 STR (mind you STR is our PRIMARY stat).
Then I was talking to Roidz last night also Dom as well and we thought it MIGHT be a good idea to remove the 20% damage bonus from Mark altogether. Mark would only provide combat advantage which also provides Combat Adv damage bonus. This would reduce GFs damage by 20% as well as GWFs. So this too could be added to the base of the GWF class.
All of this removes the reliance on Mark and Daggers along with a Sentinel feat. Which you THEN could use that Sent feat as a way to mitigate incoming damage instead. I would also rework Countless Scars to work in REVERSE what it does now. Currently its another "negation" that stacks 15 times @ 1% each. I would reverse this so the GWF has MORE DR initially and then LOSES that DR as hit. This alows PVE GWFs to tank better and actually hurts PVP GWFs tankiness.
For those that are ignorant: IBS isnt the issue. IBS on a DUMMY without stacks hit for like 10-12k. Its when you build up ALL the stacks + mark + CAB etc that IBS will hit dummies for 150k+ and then when you add debuffs or ITF - I hit a DC for 100k last night.
The MAX potential to hit hard IMO is too much, but the stacking mechanic we have now is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. So a reduction of "top potential" DPS is warranted but it needs to be MUCH easier to build up stacks.