Nobody said the "problem" was exclusive to the GWF icy. As a matter of fact the GFs, which you say beat you 95% of the time, have identical problems to the GWF and therefore it's actually quite understandable -- I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's easy to understand why you GWFs lose -- in terms of systematics.
Basically, the GF is also as much inefficient and simply ineffective as a combatant due to the fact that its design is slow, clunky, not very responsive, and the class design is just unsuitable for intelligent PvP. Against PvE maybe that works, but in PvP, all the GF is is simply; (1) try lunge attacks/mega damage attack (like AoD), (2) shield up, keep blocking until lunges/AoD recharged. So, basically if you can do those two things accurately like guys like AntM or Hussbro can, then you're basically invincible since systematically there's no real way to get around the shield defense... and if you can't do that as well as those players then your fighting tactic entirely fails.
So, it's the same as the GWFs. The GF is so inefficient that it doesn't really fight aggressively. It's basically passive -- wait until your one good attack, if its used up then turtle up. So, its attacks are far ineffective and infrequent to be able to defeat anyone... hence, naturally the devs compensate by giving it one good insane damage attack. You do nothing but block for the entire fight, and then use 2~3 AoDs and the game's over. That's how it goes . So against a GWF, which holds the identitical problems, then the fight naturally comes down to who's got better defenses since both sides are so inefficient, which is of course, the GF, so when all things are identical yes, the GF wins. It's just systematically this way.
Same with CWs. Most CW players don't realize the worth of utilities and CCs, nor is support-builds -- no matter how decisively helpful -- particularly popular. In most cases most people don't even realize how my super-CC build aided them win decisively. The CW with that tactical nuke damage that melts down people in seconds, now, people realize that easily, hence its more satisfying to play this way.
So most SS CWs centered on DPS has like this pathetic amount of CCs that's more akin to net-lag than real CCs, and thus in most cases spends most of their time running around until their CC recharges and they get a split-second opportunity land a mega-damage rotation. Against foes which this tactic does not work, they're usually screwed -- hence their hatred towards GFs and TRs and in many cases GWFs.
...
Basically icy, in all of the above cases, it's the same. The classes are mostly centered around passive traits, and therefore way too gear/spec dependent, and therefore to compensate for its (generally) f**ked up, poor combat design, are given ridiculously strong "one good power".
The GWF needs a fix, but then so does every other class, in much the same manner.
All classes in PvP, generally need;
less reliance on passive/auto defense/offense traits/features (DR.. deflection chance.. crit chance.. DPS.. etc.)
more emphasis on active/manual defense/offense traits/features (active defense powers, combo/sequential attacks, etc..)
People generally consider that NW PvP is more about gear than skill. This is one of the reasons why.
I want to see the GWF fixed, easier to fight with, better utilities and cool features that require more active input from the player -- with timing, judgement, ingenuity, mind-games -- instead of be this gear/spec-oriented "russian roulette" of a class... and IMO this should be true for every other class you've complained about that supposedly beats GWFs.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
GWF need complete rework the class is no longer fun to play
u can use class ability 2 times b4 u die if you dont get lucky LS proc
u have 0 CC
u need 95676675675676 of stacks/buffs to deal dmg
u need to lose 30% hp to actualy start dealing dmg
we have also worst shift ability ingame sprint was nice in mod 1-2 but now every 1 deals 5x the dmg
i would like to devs add additional mechanic to our sprint like backstep dash passive while pressing S button twice, it would be like dodge but only in 1 direction that is backwards at cost of 50% stamina.
your name seems to sum up your problems well, gwf isnt great at pvp, but it is ok
GWF need complete rework the class is no longer fun to play
u can use class ability 2 times b4 u die if you dont get lucky LS proc
u have 0 CC
u need 95676675675676 of stacks/buffs to deal dmg
u need to lose 30% hp to actualy start dealing dmg
we have also worst shift ability ingame sprint was nice in mod 1-2 but now every 1 deals 5x the dmg
i would like to devs add additional mechanic to our sprint like backstep dash passive while pressing S button twice, it would be like dodge but only in 1 direction that is backwards at cost of 50% stamina.
Exactly this and i'll ad something extra, as a not BIS GWF (decent but not close to BIS) in premade vs premade or strong team vs strong team, all I can offer to my team is run to the mid and stall enemy for few sec till my team comes to help, die, run mid, die... and so on. So at the and of the game, my K/D is like 5/15 which makes me look like a scrub with such gear but hey I don't care about that at all.
0
silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
oooooo for crying out loud.. no way ANY more DPS should be nerfed in this game AT ALL.. and Im playing on MY DC for this mod.. so not even really doing more then secondary playing time on my gwf or cw in pvp at all..
Survibility due to some interesting interactions is through the roof and paladins benefit the most from it all.. by far.
Yes there are certain GWF and CWs ive run into that can decimate my DC, but most of them are 1k above me.. its just going to happen.
I dont know what are you guys whining about, against equally geared opponents GWF is at a pretty bad position, the only reason why there are so many dominating GWF is because a lot of old players mains GWF, and are very decently geared, so when fighting against new players their gear takes the advantage and make it look like wtflolstompe, but if you compare them to equally geared opponents, you will find GWF is at a pretty bad state.
Let me list it for you (talking about equally geared 4klish players)
vs TR = GWF should lose 95%+ of the time, no explaination needed
vs OP/DC = GWF cannot kill them, period
vs GF = GWF lose 80~90% of the time, and yes, GF can 2~3 shot us (try Druss the Legend or Hussbro)
vs CW = GWF beats bad CWs pretty easily but has NO CHANCE against top CW players, their fire wheel+daily hits us about 70K damage post-mitigation (when I was sprinting), all they need to do is throw a few cheesecakes at us after that and we are dead.
vs HR = GWF is only about 60/40 against equally geared HRs, those HRs that uses perm-loot combined with fire wheel is pretty deadly, plus there seem to be a bug causing HRs to deal more damage on CC immnued target (e.g. unstoppable) and hence its now noticibly harder taking up good HRs, it used to be 80~90/10~20.
vs Sw = Now finally a class GWF has good chance of beating!
Now in a team fight, GWF offers little to no CC, all GWF has is damage, and if there is a geared DC or OP around making the team unkillable, then GWF is practically useless there. Unlike many other class, that can actually offer CC to help control a target to death or being unkillable, compare to all these classes, GWF is really at a very bad state.
Yes, some of you would probably disagree because you have been beaten by GWFs much-more-geared than you, but if you go back and play with the GWF at your gear level, you will find they are really disadvantaged
Instigators offer some of the best CC out there...my instigator Pink Scythe of God uses Mighty Leap to troll unstoppable GWFs and ITC'd rogues all the time as the silence works more like a 1s interrupt. She's tanky as all hell and can stand up to any toon, even BIS GWFs like Saber long enough for the DPSers to drop them like potatoes. Sentinel sucks though.
But yeah, if your lineup is Stun/Daggers/IBS then you won't have any meaningful CC.
0
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
I dont know what are you guys whining about, against equally geared opponents GWF is at a pretty bad position, the only reason why there are so many dominating GWF is because a lot of old players mains GWF, and are very decently geared, so when fighting against new players their gear takes the advantage and make it look like wtflolstompe, but if you compare them to equally geared opponents, you will find GWF is at a pretty bad state.
Let me list it for you (talking about equally geared 4klish players)
vs TR = GWF should lose 95%+ of the time, no explaination needed
vs OP/DC = GWF cannot kill them, period
vs GF = GWF lose 80~90% of the time, and yes, GF can 2~3 shot us (try Druss the Legend or Hussbro)
vs CW = GWF beats bad CWs pretty easily but has NO CHANCE against top CW players, their fire wheel+daily hits us about 70K damage post-mitigation (when I was sprinting), all they need to do is throw a few cheesecakes at us after that and we are dead.
vs HR = GWF is only about 60/40 against equally geared HRs, those HRs that uses perm-loot combined with fire wheel is pretty deadly, plus there seem to be a bug causing HRs to deal more damage on CC immnued target (e.g. unstoppable) and hence its now noticibly harder taking up good HRs, it used to be 80~90/10~20.
vs Sw = Now finally a class GWF has good chance of beating!
Now in a team fight, GWF offers little to no CC, all GWF has is damage, and if there is a geared DC or OP around making the team unkillable, then GWF is practically useless there. Unlike many other class, that can actually offer CC to help control a target to death or being unkillable, compare to all these classes, GWF is really at a very bad state.
Yes, some of you would probably disagree because you have been beaten by GWFs much-more-geared than you, but if you go back and play with the GWF at your gear level, you will find they are really disadvantaged
Instigators offer some of the best CC out there...my instigator Pink Scythe of God uses Mighty Leap to troll unstoppable GWFs and ITC'd rogues all the time as the silence works more like a 1s interrupt. She's tanky as all hell and can stand up to any toon, even BIS GWFs like Saber long enough for the DPSers to drop them like potatoes. Sentinel sucks though.
But yeah, if your lineup is Stun/Daggers/IBS then you won't have any meaningful CC.
My encounters are actually, hidden dagger + take down + battlefury... i know its an odd combo, my build is built around utilising hidden dagger and battlefury's buffs to buff up Sure Strike's damage (40k crit hit on dummy, 55k crit hit if with intimidation) and other encounters/daily's damage, then use mobility (with battlefury) to help reaching each caps to help our team score the nodes. In fact, I have killed a few under-geareds with just 1 single TakeDown when I have the buffs from destoyer's purpose+hidden dagger+battlefury (and maybe Fire wheel), one Takedown could score 50~60k dmg or so (about 80~90k on dummy), and its only 7 secs cooldown, and with all these buffs, your Indo Strength, could be hitting really nice number too
I dont know what are you guys whining about, against equally geared opponents GWF is at a pretty bad position, the only reason why there are so many dominating GWF is because a lot of old players mains GWF, and are very decently geared, so when fighting against new players their gear takes the advantage and make it look like wtflolstompe, but if you compare them to equally geared opponents, you will find GWF is at a pretty bad state.
Let me list it for you (talking about equally geared 4klish players)
vs TR = GWF should lose 95%+ of the time, no explaination needed
vs OP/DC = GWF cannot kill them, period
vs GF = GWF lose 80~90% of the time, and yes, GF can 2~3 shot us (try Druss the Legend or Hussbro)
vs CW = GWF beats bad CWs pretty easily but has NO CHANCE against top CW players, their fire wheel+daily hits us about 70K damage post-mitigation (when I was sprinting), all they need to do is throw a few cheesecakes at us after that and we are dead.
vs HR = GWF is only about 60/40 against equally geared HRs, those HRs that uses perm-loot combined with fire wheel is pretty deadly, plus there seem to be a bug causing HRs to deal more damage on CC immnued target (e.g. unstoppable) and hence its now noticibly harder taking up good HRs, it used to be 80~90/10~20.
vs Sw = Now finally a class GWF has good chance of beating!
Now in a team fight, GWF offers little to no CC, all GWF has is damage, and if there is a geared DC or OP around making the team unkillable, then GWF is practically useless there. Unlike many other class, that can actually offer CC to help control a target to death or being unkillable, compare to all these classes, GWF is really at a very bad state.
Yes, some of you would probably disagree because you have been beaten by GWFs much-more-geared than you, but if you go back and play with the GWF at your gear level, you will find they are really disadvantaged
Instigators offer some of the best CC out there...my instigator Pink Scythe of God uses Mighty Leap to troll unstoppable GWFs and ITC'd rogues all the time as the silence works more like a 1s interrupt. She's tanky as all hell and can stand up to any toon, even BIS GWFs like Saber long enough for the DPSers to drop them like potatoes. Sentinel sucks though.
But yeah, if your lineup is Stun/Daggers/IBS then you won't have any meaningful CC.
My encounters are actually, hidden dagger + take down + battlefury... i know its an odd combo, my build is built around utilising hidden dagger and battlefury's buffs to buff up Sure Strike's damage (40k crit hit on dummy, 55k crit hit if with intimidation) and other encounters/daily's damage, then use mobility (with battlefury) to help reaching each caps to help our team score the nodes. In fact, I have killed a few under-geareds with just 1 single TakeDown when I have the buffs from destoyer's purpose+hidden dagger+battlefury (and maybe Fire wheel), one Takedown could score 50~60k dmg or so (about 80~90k on dummy), and its only 7 secs cooldown, and with all these buffs, your Indo Strength, could be hitting really nice number too
My destroyer used FLS/Takedown/BFury.
People don't respect how awesome BFury is in PVP. The ability to stay on top of the squishies.
+1 Respect. Can I get your @ tag so I may inspect you? My destroyer hits like a sack of feathers.
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
Hmm... unless it has recently been bugged... I used T Terror for about 1 months+ in the earlier stage of mod6, while it works pretty decently, I could hardly notice much roots... so eventually I sold it away and go back to Perfect Vorpal...
As of right now, I dont recall seening any top GWFs (top 10 pages leaderboard) using T Terror, I think most of them find P Vorpal or T Feytouch more beneficial... however I was told the root has an internal cooldown of 30 seconds, so if its proccing more than it should be, then I suggest you get the log and report it to bug report section
IBS becomes a problem once you run into GWF with t.terror.
Root here, root there, root everywhere.
Dude, you do realise T Terror only roots once every 30 seconds...? And that root is pretty much unoticible...
This is patently untrue. The root is bugged and triggers far more often than that, often seeming to trigger out of thin air from some strange interactions, and is very far from not noticeable. It's a fairly abusive enchantment in the hands of a GWF.
Yeah, t.terror doesn't root each 5 seconds from nowhere as well as ferocious reaction never multiproc'd in module 5...
I find T.fey better for GWFs though, I just wish I was still on my laptop to toss some log screens with lostmauth procs so you could see it yourself.
just to show damage, before calling the enemy pugs check their names.
i dont know you as a cw but i cant see many people able to stand him.
i sure dont have the tools to kill him regardless my gear.
and honestly it doesnt seem to me that he has all those survivability problems many gwf talk about.
i would go looking for luusi's post about kdr top 15 ratio but cant remember where he posted it
just to show damage, before calling the enemy pugs check their names. He is using wheel right but look however at the base damage post mitigation...the first one? 0:44, savage adv. vs a gf. 80k post mitigation without considering wheel.
i dont know you as a cw but i cant see many people able to stand him.
i sure dont have the tools to kill him regardless my gear.
and honestly it doesnt seem to me that he has all those survivability problems many gwf talk about.
i would go looking for luusi's post about kdr top 15 ratio but cant remember where he posted it
0
lvl99looterMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 682Arc User
It's NOT IBS that's the problem. It's all the POWER, stats, and boons people are able to obtain now. Back in Module 1 before all these artifacts and rank 12 and junk. Things were a LOT better.
It's the exact, same old story as module 4-5 intimidation builds.
Guys pick up some BiS whale and say "see? GWF is perfectly fine"
Play one yourself and see.
Lostamauth set
Wheel
Negation
Are broken OP.
add 20-25% LS chance only BiS whales can achieve.
Now, GWF class is badly designed. Base survivability sucks, it get stronger when he's half dead. Literally. You need stacks to build up, to build up stacks you need to go unstoppable first, to go unstoppable you need to lose a huge chunk of HP. Regular GWFs can go unstoppable a couple of times in a fight vs equally geared enemy because determination gain makes unstoppable basically the worst mechanic of them all. You lose a good portion of HPs, and for that you are basically just able to have 4-8 seconds to hurry and try to build 10 stacks of damage buff and get some temp HP.
I say some cause here is the first lol mechanic: your temp HPs from unstoppable are buffed by damage buff but...you need to go unstoppable to build up said damage buff. Which means the first time you go unstoppable, your temp HPs suck.
GWF gets strong after a while. Before that, he sucks. Damage sucks, survivability sucks. After he goes unstoppable and build up all damage stacks and start building serious temp HP, he gets strong. At that point, he is usually half dead.
Now the only advantage he has over other opponents is he can deal more damage, but all our encounters are skillshots. FLS, IBS, flourish, even dagger, restoring strike, takedown. They don't have auto-aim, they need specific aiming and timing or they fail. SS is melee range and requires the gwf to constantly chase the opponent, stop, hit in melee range. All the hits require said timing and aiming skills and if you do it wrong, they crush on immunities or damage resistances and are affected by all the above. Our DR can be debuffed and pierced, so our supposed tankyness comes mainly from the unstoppable temp HPs.
Compare it to auto-lock ranged stuff, passive damage procs, passive piercing damage, passive perma stun/daze from feats exc...
Why ayroux build works so well? In few words: at BiS level TNegation + Tfey AoE manage to boost your flat DR and increase your survivability so much that the GWF can actually get to his max buffed stat and fight while not being half dead. Also, high LS chance allows the GWF to max benefit from his very high damage to recover HP and go unstoppable more.
Regular GWFs cannot do that to that level.
Regular CWs, TRs, paladins, DCs, have their efficiency coming from feats and powers and mechanics, not gear.
GWF efficiency scales better, but with gear only cause feats and mechanics plain underperform compared to other classes.
Also, GWF is a more proactive class with no passive piercing damage or passive damage proc or passive DR on separate layer.
We have CC immunity advantage BUT again, you need to perfectly time and dose your sprint to both close gaps and defend or you end up with no stamina and our stamina regeneration is the slowest, where TRs can spam their rolls, for example.
GF is in a slightly better shape cause shield and high burst damage allows them, if they are skilled at keeping their guard up, to counter the incoming damage and don't have to lose HP to deal damage.
But still, if you compare mechanics to TR, DC, CW, they are clunky and unreliable.
TBH, players only looking at BiS players to gauge the efficiency of GWF class is the reason why feedbacks always turned the class into some gear-hungry freak.
What basically saves the class is smart build, boons pick up and being quite skilled and tight at playing.
It's high risk-high reward class with a huge appetite for gear.
Comments
Nobody said the "problem" was exclusive to the GWF icy. As a matter of fact the GFs, which you say beat you 95% of the time, have identical problems to the GWF and therefore it's actually quite understandable -- I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it's easy to understand why you GWFs lose -- in terms of systematics.
Basically, the GF is also as much inefficient and simply ineffective as a combatant due to the fact that its design is slow, clunky, not very responsive, and the class design is just unsuitable for intelligent PvP. Against PvE maybe that works, but in PvP, all the GF is is simply; (1) try lunge attacks/mega damage attack (like AoD), (2) shield up, keep blocking until lunges/AoD recharged. So, basically if you can do those two things accurately like guys like AntM or Hussbro can, then you're basically invincible since systematically there's no real way to get around the shield defense... and if you can't do that as well as those players then your fighting tactic entirely fails.
So, it's the same as the GWFs. The GF is so inefficient that it doesn't really fight aggressively. It's basically passive -- wait until your one good attack, if its used up then turtle up. So, its attacks are far ineffective and infrequent to be able to defeat anyone... hence, naturally the devs compensate by giving it one good insane damage attack. You do nothing but block for the entire fight, and then use 2~3 AoDs and the game's over. That's how it goes . So against a GWF, which holds the identitical problems, then the fight naturally comes down to who's got better defenses since both sides are so inefficient, which is of course, the GF, so when all things are identical yes, the GF wins. It's just systematically this way.
Same with CWs. Most CW players don't realize the worth of utilities and CCs, nor is support-builds -- no matter how decisively helpful -- particularly popular. In most cases most people don't even realize how my super-CC build aided them win decisively. The CW with that tactical nuke damage that melts down people in seconds, now, people realize that easily, hence its more satisfying to play this way.
So most SS CWs centered on DPS has like this pathetic amount of CCs that's more akin to net-lag than real CCs, and thus in most cases spends most of their time running around until their CC recharges and they get a split-second opportunity land a mega-damage rotation. Against foes which this tactic does not work, they're usually screwed -- hence their hatred towards GFs and TRs and in many cases GWFs.
...
Basically icy, in all of the above cases, it's the same. The classes are mostly centered around passive traits, and therefore way too gear/spec dependent, and therefore to compensate for its (generally) f**ked up, poor combat design, are given ridiculously strong "one good power".
The GWF needs a fix, but then so does every other class, in much the same manner.
All classes in PvP, generally need;
less reliance on passive/auto defense/offense traits/features (DR.. deflection chance.. crit chance.. DPS.. etc.)
more emphasis on active/manual defense/offense traits/features (active defense powers, combo/sequential attacks, etc..)
People generally consider that NW PvP is more about gear than skill. This is one of the reasons why.
I want to see the GWF fixed, easier to fight with, better utilities and cool features that require more active input from the player -- with timing, judgement, ingenuity, mind-games -- instead of be this gear/spec-oriented "russian roulette" of a class... and IMO this should be true for every other class you've complained about that supposedly beats GWFs.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
your name seems to sum up your problems well, gwf isnt great at pvp, but it is ok
Exactly this and i'll ad something extra, as a not BIS GWF (decent but not close to BIS) in premade vs premade or strong team vs strong team, all I can offer to my team is run to the mid and stall enemy for few sec till my team comes to help, die, run mid, die... and so on. So at the and of the game, my K/D is like 5/15 which makes me look like a scrub with such gear but hey I don't care about that at all.
Survibility due to some interesting interactions is through the roof and paladins benefit the most from it all.. by far.
Yes there are certain GWF and CWs ive run into that can decimate my DC, but most of them are 1k above me.. its just going to happen.
Seriously, so many stacks to manage to actually be useful.
Destroyer is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up the entire class, though with the 35k IBS's.
Instigators offer some of the best CC out there...my instigator Pink Scythe of God uses Mighty Leap to troll unstoppable GWFs and ITC'd rogues all the time as the silence works more like a 1s interrupt. She's tanky as all hell and can stand up to any toon, even BIS GWFs like Saber long enough for the DPSers to drop them like potatoes. Sentinel sucks though.
But yeah, if your lineup is Stun/Daggers/IBS then you won't have any meaningful CC.
My encounters are actually, hidden dagger + take down + battlefury... i know its an odd combo, my build is built around utilising hidden dagger and battlefury's buffs to buff up Sure Strike's damage (40k crit hit on dummy, 55k crit hit if with intimidation) and other encounters/daily's damage, then use mobility (with battlefury) to help reaching each caps to help our team score the nodes. In fact, I have killed a few under-geareds with just 1 single TakeDown when I have the buffs from destoyer's purpose+hidden dagger+battlefury (and maybe Fire wheel), one Takedown could score 50~60k dmg or so (about 80~90k on dummy), and its only 7 secs cooldown, and with all these buffs, your Indo Strength, could be hitting really nice number too
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
My destroyer used FLS/Takedown/BFury.
People don't respect how awesome BFury is in PVP. The ability to stay on top of the squishies.
+1 Respect. Can I get your @ tag so I may inspect you? My destroyer hits like a sack of feathers.
Root here, root there, root everywhere.
Dude, you do realise T Terror only roots once every 30 seconds...? And that root is pretty much unoticible...
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
As of right now, I dont recall seening any top GWFs (top 10 pages leaderboard) using T Terror, I think most of them find P Vorpal or T Feytouch more beneficial... however I was told the root has an internal cooldown of 30 seconds, so if its proccing more than it should be, then I suggest you get the log and report it to bug report section
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
I find T.fey better for GWFs though, I just wish I was still on my laptop to toss some log screens with lostmauth procs so you could see it yourself.
Where's this?
-ASYLUM-
i beat him, gwf is bad class
regards
just to show damage, before calling the enemy pugs check their names.
i dont know you as a cw but i cant see many people able to stand him.
i sure dont have the tools to kill him regardless my gear.
and honestly it doesnt seem to me that he has all those survivability problems many gwf talk about.
i would go looking for luusi's post about kdr top 15 ratio but cant remember where he posted it
It's the exact, same old story as module 4-5 intimidation builds.
Guys pick up some BiS whale and say "see? GWF is perfectly fine"
Play one yourself and see.
Lostamauth set
Wheel
Negation
Are broken OP.
add 20-25% LS chance only BiS whales can achieve.
Now, GWF class is badly designed. Base survivability sucks, it get stronger when he's half dead. Literally. You need stacks to build up, to build up stacks you need to go unstoppable first, to go unstoppable you need to lose a huge chunk of HP. Regular GWFs can go unstoppable a couple of times in a fight vs equally geared enemy because determination gain makes unstoppable basically the worst mechanic of them all. You lose a good portion of HPs, and for that you are basically just able to have 4-8 seconds to hurry and try to build 10 stacks of damage buff and get some temp HP.
I say some cause here is the first lol mechanic: your temp HPs from unstoppable are buffed by damage buff but...you need to go unstoppable to build up said damage buff. Which means the first time you go unstoppable, your temp HPs suck.
GWF gets strong after a while. Before that, he sucks. Damage sucks, survivability sucks. After he goes unstoppable and build up all damage stacks and start building serious temp HP, he gets strong. At that point, he is usually half dead.
Now the only advantage he has over other opponents is he can deal more damage, but all our encounters are skillshots. FLS, IBS, flourish, even dagger, restoring strike, takedown. They don't have auto-aim, they need specific aiming and timing or they fail. SS is melee range and requires the gwf to constantly chase the opponent, stop, hit in melee range. All the hits require said timing and aiming skills and if you do it wrong, they crush on immunities or damage resistances and are affected by all the above. Our DR can be debuffed and pierced, so our supposed tankyness comes mainly from the unstoppable temp HPs.
Compare it to auto-lock ranged stuff, passive damage procs, passive piercing damage, passive perma stun/daze from feats exc...
Why ayroux build works so well? In few words: at BiS level TNegation + Tfey AoE manage to boost your flat DR and increase your survivability so much that the GWF can actually get to his max buffed stat and fight while not being half dead. Also, high LS chance allows the GWF to max benefit from his very high damage to recover HP and go unstoppable more.
Regular GWFs cannot do that to that level.
Regular CWs, TRs, paladins, DCs, have their efficiency coming from feats and powers and mechanics, not gear.
GWF efficiency scales better, but with gear only cause feats and mechanics plain underperform compared to other classes.
Also, GWF is a more proactive class with no passive piercing damage or passive damage proc or passive DR on separate layer.
We have CC immunity advantage BUT again, you need to perfectly time and dose your sprint to both close gaps and defend or you end up with no stamina and our stamina regeneration is the slowest, where TRs can spam their rolls, for example.
GF is in a slightly better shape cause shield and high burst damage allows them, if they are skilled at keeping their guard up, to counter the incoming damage and don't have to lose HP to deal damage.
But still, if you compare mechanics to TR, DC, CW, they are clunky and unreliable.
TBH, players only looking at BiS players to gauge the efficiency of GWF class is the reason why feedbacks always turned the class into some gear-hungry freak.
What basically saves the class is smart build, boons pick up and being quite skilled and tight at playing.
It's high risk-high reward class with a huge appetite for gear.