Maybe a bug: Variable Robot Wings do not change size with any of the wings sliders. Probably due to their being named wings, but not actually being wings. It would be fun if they were scalable, though.
This isn't a set that appeals to me since I have no interest in making a Transformer-like toon, but I can imagine that it would be one of the more challenging sets to make considering the detail of every single piece having to adhere closely to each part of the vehicle making up each body part in "robot" form.
It wouldn't be that hard or challenging to build it more appealing for other characters. The set as it was on my sketch was actually more flexible than this thing eventually produced by Cryptic.
Not because of a number of parts (I was pretty aware than not every possible vehicle part can me stuffed into one set and many suggestions will have to be left out), but because there was actual tought put behind some gimmicks in it.
Except Cryptic stripped the concept from all these gimmicks, namely:
- no gunhand/bladehand sharing the same bracer model.
- no weapon model.
- no plated tights (or rather an alternative torso/legs model, see Nighthawk or Cyberpunk) that could be actually useful for other kinds of robotic or armored characters.
Because not everyone is a fan of silly skeletal robot legs with exposed everything. Actually, quite a few people are not. Again, I had tells ingame that having an option for a full robotic body without skeletal limbs was a good idea.
Current PTS Variable Robot tights? They are completely unneeded,. There are already, like three or four, patterns of banded tights ingame, all are of higher quality and will do better in any costume.
- the head model is very crude compared to sketches, Cryptic amped up and exaggerated plating, so it now ends in line with other CO cartoonish robot heads.
That was not the intent. Look how subtle yet geometric is a Cosmic Knight mask. Its what I'm now using for mechanoid heads.
We already have crude noseless robot heads. What's the point in wasting a time and effort for making one more with a slightly different plating?
- model for hands is absolutely simplified. On sketch there are clearly visible seam lines on joints. Not present on the model and that makes hands looking like they were cut from foam board.
But this one could be fixed with normalmaps.
- not even an attempt at camouflage. Could be used for quite a few concepts.
Now, I know from experience that texturing a camouflage can be a pain in the back because some patterns with long strokes can end terrible with texture seams going trough them. But some generic patterns are not composed with long strokes, especially so-called "digital" patterns, or patterns made of scattered blots.
- only wings jetpack was made (Is this at least a real jetpack with jet animation, like other jetpacks?), no turbines jetpack.
As it was designed, it could be actually useful for armored or robotic, but a non-transformer, toons.
Someone should have, at the very least, this terribly ugly wings jetpack remodeled.
The wing module is some kind of simplified cardboard cutout, it does not look even remotely as on sketches.
It's probably the laziest geometry I ever saw. And the way how flat it is, it will clip horribly with character moves.
Just look at it and compare it to paneled jet wings released as a reward for opening lockboxes. The difference in detailing is staggering.
It needs a closer look at the art and redo at least this jetpack from the scratch.
Oh, and even with changes that Cryptic said they are willing to do, and maybe even with a better jetpack, I hope this set will not be priced for more than old Sakura Mecha armor.
Actually, because so many possibilities were discarded, it's even more limited in scope than the Sakura.
Sakura Mecha is actually useful for a wide spectrum of tech characters..
I hope they won't be selling it for any highest price, certainly not for 1000 Zen. It's not worth it.
Variable Robot, as it was made, is useful only for transforming mecha and that's only if they turn into Hawkwings. It falls short even as a generic transformer set, or a general purpose mecha set, really.
But even as a "Hawkwing set" it needs to have at least this wings module remodeled.
There are two kinds of clipping and one of them is entirely acceptable.
The first is that clipping where the costume piece doesn't work with the body by itself or with the pieces that go in the same set. That kind of clipping does need to be addressed.
The second is where the costume piece clips through costume pieces that aren't part of the same set. This is actually very acceptable since they weren't designed to go with but can create interesting combinations.
When it comes to costume pieces, we want them to go into every category that they make sense in despite clipping with other pieces in other categories. We want all gloves to go in both short and long glove. We want to use bracers with both short and long glove. We want to use belts with hip wear, skirts, dresses, pants, and every lower body category. We want chest wear with every torso type, jackets with everything, and chest wear with jackets. We want to see head wear and hair allowed in every head category including helmets, big helmets etc.
We don't want to see a category disappear because of a choice made on another part of the body or even when a choice is made on that part of the body.
This is a great explanation of many folks' views in-game regarding clipping and categories.
This is kinda bugging me, but can someone post the full costume (Not the huge bulky picture from earlier) And with each color channel something different to identify what is where?
- Not sure if this has been in the feedback but I'll say it just in case. Variable Robot Belt is unable to be used in conjunction with the Left Shoulder Pad for the same set. My suggestion would be to copy the belt piece into "Hip Gear" in order for it to be used, but also retain a copy for normal belt usage. Or better yet...resolve the conflict another way. If not this happens:
As you can see the belt piece is missing.
EDIT: From what Flyingfinn has posted this issue seems to be restricted to the female Variable Robot costume.
- The set feels unfinished in some respects (just echoing what others have reported back earlier). Also this occurs when attempting to use the Cyborg arms with the set:
Personal Opinions/Feedback
- Unfortunately the Variable Robot Costume set is not to my taste, but I am confident other players will find many uses for it.
- The set could do with some polish in general, it feels unfinished.
- I am glad you announced that the set will be coming "Soon", so I hope that means there will be significant improvements and fixes made to the set so those who want to use it can use it well.
Other thoughts
I am not aware of the schedule of what needs to be produced when or what goes into creating a costume set. However, I am disappointed to see the amount of robotic/space costume pieces that have come along recently, whilst additions to the game are welcome (provided they done well), I would like to see more sets like, wait not even like, I want this one:
I think it is high time that CO got some new and good looking modern styles of clothing, hair and shoes for our characters. The thread linked has a lot of support on it and was also a submission in the costume contest. I cannot speak for others but I can speak for myself when I say I would REALLY like that set in game as well as some interesting auras:
Auras (This isn't the only aura thread out there but its the one I created, so I linked it)
I would really like to see Heroic Fashion in game, it is a wonder it isn't already there actually.
Haven't had a chance to jump into PTS yet, but I can see what look like some pretty obvious flaws with this set. The way the wings are set up, for instance, your elbows are going to clip right through them as you walk. (And why are the wings so angular, when none of our vehicles have wings like that?) Similar issues with other pieces - they look interesting, sort of like LEGO Transformers, but it looks like the artist(s) responsible didn't actually have the model move.
I'm going to go try something later, though, with the veteran-reward wings (Art Deco, I think? Anyway, the big curvy ones), as those look at least vaguely like the wings on a Hawkwing.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
I'm going to go try something later, though, with the veteran-reward wings (Art Deco, I think? Anyway, the big curvy ones), as those look at least vaguely like the wings on a Hawkwing.
It's Legoformer or Cosplayformer. Or ChineseHasbroToyKnock-offFormer.
But that's a matter of taste, while they don't look very sleek and "Hawkwing-ish", they could go well with tank vehicles.
Except they don't have an optional camouflage pattern, so they can't. Which again defeats a large part of possible utility this set could have.
Which again is a pity, because a camo pattern would work very well with large flat surfaces.
And, really, how anyone could be thinking that making wings backpiece in the most crude, the least useful way possible was a good idea, I can't fathom.
Geez, from the side wings are looking even more ugly. Just, ugh... My eyes. No way it could work as a part of jetformer costume. It looks nothing like wings of any kind.
Indeed you will do much better with veteran reward art deco wings. They look so much better that this one.
This is the least useful heavy armor set to this day. There's absolutely no reason for wasting time, effort and resources for having it made in this shape.
Seriously, why it was even made? This project should be abandoned entirely, it has no chances of ending well. And that's coming from a someone who submitted this costume idea.
Now it's my private theory that this set was used as a training ground for an entry level developer to teach them.
Things like bad unwraps (look at this seam line vertically across the chest, that's not a kind of mistake you can do with unwrapping if you have any kind of practice), bad geometry (torso weighting), going for the most simple modeling like wings being made as a one flat plate (the most basic modeling possible with extrude and mirroring), randomly assigned costume categories - it all makes it rather obvious.
Dear Cryptic, time for damage control is now.
Cancel this set.
Vaporise it before it's too late and this trainwreck will hit the rails. It will not end well for anyone interested. A few players with extremely low expectations might be overenjoyed with it, but that's not worth the trouble coming with releasing it.
- The set could do with some polish in general, it feels unfinished.
What this set needs is to be canceled and never revisited again.
Unless this game is back again to Cryptic North and people responsible for the Holoforce, Psi Dragon and Cosmic Knight.
What I'll write right now might be weird, considering that I have two transforming robot toons and one of them has a Hawkwing as her alt mode, but...
I have no use for this set. I mean, looking at what was built. Zero. Null.
There's no quality, no flexiblity. I have no access to PTS, but if I can point at huge mistakes even by looking at screenshots, then you know that's an incoming defeat.
I was about to ask TT if I can count for one free copy of the costume for myself, as it was with the Cosmic Knight. Well, that was before I saw how the costume is coming together. After that I've lost my interest completely, knowing I'll have no use for it.
I'd say it's a special kind of failure when such judgement comes from a person who did draw the designs, isn't it?
Also. As I am sure that there will be at least one apologist insisting at "let's wait until it's released".
Nope.
Because fixing this costume would require like throwing away at least wings and tights, then these two parts would need to be redone completely.
The rest would need to be retextured. Thats almost like making a new set and I'm pretty sure that whoever was working at this marvel is unable to do any better.
I'm sure this amount of rework is not within the scope for Cryptic and they will not change the modeler.
Damn sure it won't happen, so the set is doomed.
Oh, and the fun part.
The way how wings were drawn on my sketch was trademark safe. This kind of wing arrangement by having them split and folded half-lenght, and then moved backward is rarely used.
But they way Crytic did simplify this piece, well... I'll put it that way - try to google "G1 Starscream", "G1 Skywarp" or "G1 Thundercracker". Or "G1 Seeker".
The outcome is nothing short of hilarious.
Makes me wonder why I've even tried to made it looking as distant from a certain franchise as it was only possible?
I think I'll have to apologise to anyone who was waiting for this set. But also to people who were hoping for any other set being voted in a costume concept. Like the Spordelia's one.
I swear that if I knew what Cryptic intends to do with it, I wouldn't submit it.
I would not risk taking a place in the final 5 that could be taken by any other concept.
Not if I knew this will be the outcome.
Joke's on me, lol.
And this one goes to Cryptic:
I don't think you understand what is happening. People were expecting a level of quality on pair with the Holoforce when it comes to other contest pieces. That's why it ended so criticised with Urban Anime and with Variable Robot.
With VR is even worse, because you can't see it right now after all images being for so long on FB and Arc media, but it was third in voting at the time of the contest.
So it had certain expectations attached.
People saw the Holoforce and were thinking how the Variable Robot might look with the same quality because it came third in votes, and after very good Holoforce and Psi Dragon they had all rights to have such expectation.
But wait, there's more!
Remember, the final five took two sets sketched by me.
Which means someone else was not lucky.
Someone who could, quite possibly, produce something better. Or just something different.
And now everyone who had issue with it will look at this unimpressive set and will ask things like: "This is it? This is what took the third place? THIS? Why it was picked over anything else for voting? What were they thinking?"
Yeah.
Again, apologies to everyone for submitting this costume idea.
Here's hoping future sets and contests will end much better.
And yeah, someone should look into Spordelia's ideas.
But, for all that is holy, do not give it to the same modeler.
Heroic Fashion Variable Robot Quality Level Edition could be funny, but not in a good way.
It's Legoformer or Cosplayformer. Or ChineseHasbroToyKnock-offFormer.
Maybe Gobots was the inspiration If we are going with cheap transformer knockoffs, of course if no one remembers that show (*which is funnily enough now owned by Hasbro*) this will look kind of silly.
Maybe Gobots was the inspiration If we are going with cheap transformer knockoffs, of course if no one remembers that show (*which is funnily enough now owned by Hasbro*) this will look kind of silly.
Hey, GoBots had some nice toys. Most of their line was plain weird, but some of them were better than contemporary Transformers micromachines.
I had two GoBots with Autobot stickers slapped on them and enlisted as my original characters along a real Autobot toys. :biggrin:
The shoulders are ugly and clip with everything. Consider making them a trifle smaller, and perhaps less blocky. Right now, as noted above, they're more Go-Bots than Transformers. That's not a compliment.
The chest piece clips with its own arms pieces; consider narrowing it a touch.
The wings clip with your elbows while you're standing still. Angling them like the Art Deco wings would help a lot.
Using the Variable Robot leg or foot pieces will force you into Robotic Legs. Either introduce a new, more solid robot leg to underlie this, or stop forcing the category. Robot Legs as designed in the game are spindly, exactly the opposite of the feel you're going for here.
The design I eventually used had the VR Helmet on an Android head, one of the simpler shoulder pieces (can't recall which at the moment), VR Arms with Blaster gloves (an example of the good kind of clipping, as the upper part of the Blaster cut through the VR Arm piece and gave it some interesting texture), VR Chest, Mech Subligar, Mecha Leg Accessories, and Jet Boots, with Banded metal tights top and bottom, and the Art Deco wings. I upped the Height slider to the max, played with the colors for a while, and eventually had a robot that would convert into a Hawkwing Assault Ship. I'll post pictures later - this computer doesn't like to do that.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Hey, GoBots had some nice toys. Most of their line was plain weird, but some of them were better than contemporary Transformers micromachines.
I had two GoBots with Autobot stickers slapped on them and enlisted as my original characters along a real Autobot toys. :biggrin:
I had a few Gobots as well Some were made out of metal which made them a little more durable then others, but they suffered a similar problem to this costume piece. Some of them lacked polish and some where just plain recolors. (*Which was a problem with a lot of toys of that time*)
Okay, the one good design I could do on PTS (since I don't have any of the gun-hands on there) is going into a new thread in the Costumes subforum. Some of these Variable Robot parts were useful - but by no means all.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Frankly I think the biggest most important feedback has come from the original concept designer them self, meedacthunist. Honestly what has been released so far is insulting to their entry and idea, regardless if its not 'tweaked' yet.
All the Gobots and such jokes aside I'll say it for what it is, a cheap ripoff of Starscream that doesn't match up with hardly any of our vehicles which completely misses the point of the set.
The Holoforce and Psonic Dragon sets of course didn't exactly follow the concepts but damn near did and are some of the best pieces, this just seems like a cruel joke being played on the original designer.
~I'm a figment of your imagination, a mass hallucination, only real because you feel I am~
Also, I'd like to point that the helmet not only is a bit too large and blocky, but also sits too high on character's head. It should not be that high. Helmets lower edge should be closer to eyebrows.
Either this, or the Variable Robot head has eyebrows placed too low. But my bet is it's the helmet.
Also the helmet lacks detailing like a central ridge grill and screws (see the art).
Also, boots are seriously wrong. Look at the art. Those parts at the back of the calf are not supposed to be some additional blocks, but a small wings. They even share deco with backpack wings!
And again look at the art, look how smaller and sleeker are the back wings, that their upper tips have deco loosely based on Hawkwing wing tips, that the upper art showing the entire set has shading clearly showing that wings are bent backward to not interfere with arms.
That the entire costume part is called a jetpack, thus should be a functional jetpack with a jetpack FX.
Fix the clipping on the chest. It clips into the back right shoulder. Fix the seam on the front.
Remove the restrictions!! Let us use the boots in all categories, not just robotic legs. Same with the back piece, shouldn't be limited to just chest wear.
A quick sketch in 3d I've assembled to better show wings arrangement on jetpack, in case the concept art simply was not readable enough.
Hardly the masterwork of 3d modeling, obviously not even unwrapped, but it gets the job done in showing how wings should be arranged.
Now compare it to the concept art and you'll see similarities. Also, overall wings proportions - they are sleeker and look like an actual airplane wings.
And they are bent backward. They will not get in the way of arms movement.
Also, windshield and jet engines proportions are better visible.
Those twin pylons on the front may look strange, but it's just my private idea how to resolve attaching it to the character back when it's not used in conjunction with any armored chest - even if there would be a tiny gap pylons could be simply clipping into character back.
So, it would not be necessary to match the jetpack precisely with character's back, and it would still look like being attached instead of magically hovering next to the body.
In short, it will simply make things easier for everyone. From a modeler to players.
Also, frames on windshields on back and chest will be better to build with normals than with geometry.
If they are built with normalmaps only, you can have an alternative texture for them that is exactly the same like the base one, but has no window frames and windows, and in their place is just a plain armored plate.
This way set will be useful also for characters who are heavy armor users, but who are not vehicular transforming robots/cyborgs/whatever.
It will only add to the appeal of this set and all it takes is a quick job in photoshop with simply removing windows - that's all what it will take to have an alternate normalmap texture for backpack and chestpiece.
There better be. The whole point of 'VARIABLE' Robot is having a couple different sets to pick from(light and heavy) to customize it. But theyre only putting in half the pieces (only the light pieces wth?) then its no longer VARIABLE, which makes VARIABLE a totally MISLEADING statement as there is no longer any variation. If they dont add the rest of the pieces, im NOT spending on it until they do. If they never do, im never gunna buy it. Ya hear that Crpytic? Give me ALL the pieces, or, you know, dont get ANY of my money. Just sayin.
Lady, is there any chance we'll be seeing the rest of the costume pieces?
Like the rest of the shoulder pads, backpieces, chests and boots (and more important, the gloves and weapons)?
EXACTLY. I would GLADLY shell out 1000 zen for the ENTIRE Variable set, not just the few pieces from the light options and the friggin banded tights THAT WEVE ALREADY HAD IN GME THE ENTIRE TIME. So, Cryptic, do you want my money or not? That simple.
Ok, having checked back in I see that meedacthunist has damn near put more effort into explaining and giving examples of how this set should be done right than the Devs have put into the actual costume.
Look guys, its really very simple, either listen to meedacthunist and get the set done correctly or just delete it. Already people are telling each other on Live not to waste the money on it, hell I'm LTS and I wouldn't even spend the free Zen I get on it.
Either listen and do it right or it won't sell, we'll all make sure of that.
~I'm a figment of your imagination, a mass hallucination, only real because you feel I am~
Either listen and do it right or it won't sell, we'll all make sure of that.
Slow down okay ? You're spitting on a dev team that has nothing to work with and you're making claims you won't be able to stand up to. I understand that meeda is disappointed but the devs can not do miracles, neither can they accept free help because that's not how it works. They love CO and you're not going to tell me you'd rather have nothing than have something. I'll buy it if it comes out like that.
you're not going to tell me you'd rather have nothing than have something.
Actually, I think they mean it.
And that's not an irrational request at all.
We all know that once a costume is released it's set in stone in its current shape, save for a bugfixes (IF there are bugfixes), thus any room for improvement is no longer there.
The set released as it is means that it will always be like that (but by "as it is" I mean - with all materials and geometry, textures and categories fixed). Any possibilities for having it better will be a zero.
If it's not released, but instead lingers in a development limbo, chances are that some day, at some unprecised distant point in the future, when the dev team is switched again, or there are more resources, it might be revisited in a better way on pair with the Holoforce or Psi Dragon.
Those chances will be very, very small, almost nonexistent.
It might take long months if not years.
But there will be a chance, and that's better than no chance at all.
So, yeah. I think they mean it. So do I. So do quite a few others.
In the worst case scenario not releasing this costume, having nothing than having something, might be a better option.
Now, there are few conditions when releasing this set in its minimalistic shape might work, despite it being bough only by a few people.
For an example, if this set is sold for a low price, on pair with the cheapest category old sets.
This is where it belongs in terms of flexibility and quality and a low price point might help in making it desirable for enough people.
Or if this set was bough with an ingame currency, like Mechanon's parts.
But wait till this set is released at a highest price point for costumes, or even at a medium price point and if you think that what you see now is an unneeded negativity, then wait for comments afterwards.
It will be even more interesting.
Worse case scenario, if the set won't sell well enough, chances are that people upstairs might decide that it's useless to release more Z-Store sets and will focus on lockboxed costumes, or that community contests like this one are pointless.
Because statistics told them that a new Z-Store set did not sell.
neither can they accept free help because that's not how it works.
But it's good that at least someone did mention this one, finally. A company can't use a free help on a paid content. The only way player created content can be put ingame is to have it as a freebie, like Kaizerin's texture mods. Even if they wanted, Cryptic simply can't accept player's created assets for Z-Store costumes.
you're not going to tell me you'd rather have nothing than have something.
People already have a negative view of the CO devs releasing poorly designed costumes, especially after the blog about raising the cost of costumes, will only making it worse. In this case nothing would most certainly be better.
Well, this is the most disappointing set I was kind of looking forward to for the tights, weapons, and back cannon. It looks like a downgrade of the cardboard set. It's utterly buggy, it's unsymmetrical everywhere, we already have those tights but the current ones actually work.The set is blocky with minimal textures. It clips with itself, and on top of that, increasing body mass exaggerates all the above problems.
Due to all of these problems, I really have to agree with most of the people here that it should not be released in this state. But let's be completely honest, it will and cost 600 zen.
So, I did a side-by-side and outside of weak-sauce detail, the costume does look like the concept art. It's a bit bulkier, but all of the shapes and basic details are right.
At the moment, I'm happy Cryptic released this set more than the night before release so that it actually has time to be fixed up.
1 - Shoulders are almost twice as big as they should be. They need to be seriously scaled down.
2 - Wings are looking weird. Engine gondoles are ok, the windshield is almost ok (needs to be a tiny bit less bulky), but the wings themselves are only vaguely shaped like on the art.
They need to be remade from the scratch. The entire unit needs to look like actual wings.
3 - Arm and thight accessories were not supposed to be a separate elements, but plating on tights.
Failing modeling tights, then at least arm and thighs accessories needs to be rescaled to be far less bulky. Especially thighs accessories. They're far too large.
4 - Bracers, on the oher hand, should be rescaled to be more bulky, to avoid clipping with character forearms.
At least those things should be addressed as a complete minimum, without even adding anything. Being realistic in expectations and everything.
Then this set might actually work as a 600 Zen purchase. Sakura Mecha is 750 Zen, this set will be similar in theme but less flexible in terms how many character concepts work with it, so 600 Zen looks reasonable.
But that's provided it's debugged, like no random categories, no bad geometry, no texture seam lines and all materials (cloth, metal, leather) are in place.
Still will be better for Cryptic to actually avoid hyping this release on Arc and on FB, but it can pass.
I'd buy it at the lowest price tier - it's got a few pieces I could put to use. Not at any higher tier, though.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Actually, I think that's what a lot of people are saying. They would rather it was never released than released as it is. Understandable really.
I don't understand it. Dev time has already been invested, so we aren't saving anything there. Some people would buy it, so it makes some money for the company. Some people would use it, so members of the community are benefitting. Aside from petulance, there is no tangible reason to rather have nothing.
I don't understand it. Dev time has already been invested, so we aren't saving anything there. Some people would buy it, so it makes some money for the company. Some people would use it, so members of the community are benefitting. Aside from petulance, there is no tangible reason to rather have nothing.
If an item is released and does not sell well enough to generate target revenue there is a possibility of that being interpreted as a failure of the concept not the implementation. This could mean no more robotic costume sets, or no more fan contest sets, no more (or fewer) direct sale sets, etc. Any of these possibilities are reason enough to prefer the set not be released in this state. Of course then there is the expectation that, if it is released in this state, it will not ever be upgraded to match the concept art.
I want this costume to be a success. I also want it to have as much work put into it as the concept. If you think the design stages is the easiest part of development than you don't clearly understand how important planning is.
If an item is released and does not sell well enough to generate target revenue there is a possibility of that being interpreted as a failure of the concept not the implementation.
This is the wrong way to determine something is a failure. This is obvious.
This is also the way Cryptic has proven it does things.
There is also the precedence this might set. If they release the set as it is now, and people do buy it. It doesn't encourage them to strive for a higher quality. People already have low expectations for CO, the goal shouldn't be to lower them even further.
Sounds like nitpicks not major issues. The clipping is a major issue. The eff'd categories are major issues. The scaling being a bit off is a mild annoyance.
There is also the precedence this might set. If they release the set as it is now, and people do buy it. It doesn't encourage them to strive for a higher quality. People already have low expectations for CO, the goal shouldn't be to lower them even further.
I think after ~5 years of wildly varying quality and only rare glimpses of the ability to incorporate feedback into their plans, that ship has probably sailed. People's expectations are what they are, devs' plans are going to be what they decide on, and I don't see much changing either one of those.
They've released plenty of crap in the past that nobody bought (seemingly, based on costumes seen in-game). They've released plenty of great stuff that just about everybody bought. There has been no consistency from one set to the next, which makes it difficult to see much correlation there.
I get that in many arenas of life, quality is rewarded with profitability, which leads to greater quality; conversely, mediocrity is rewarded with apathy, which leads to even lower standards. However, that does seem to be the case in CO, whatsoever. They'll continue to do a good job on some stuff, and they'll continue to rush some stuff that ends up being about 50% of what we would've liked. Our reception of both crap and gold has nothing to do with the quality of what they put out next.
If an item is released and does not sell well enough to generate target revenue there is a possibility of that being interpreted as a failure of the concept not the implementation. This could mean no more robotic costume sets, or no more fan contest sets, no more (or fewer) direct sale sets, etc. Any of these possibilities are reason enough to prefer the set not be released in this state. Of course then there is the expectation that, if it is released in this state, it will not ever be upgraded to match the concept art.
If they don't make any more robotic costume sets, that wouldn't be a very big deal for detractors since apparently the current team isn't capable of making one that is to everyone's liking.
I can't see that one failed branch of the fan contest sets would have any real negative impact on their decision-making there, considering how successful Holoforce and others were. It would take a decision-maker all of ten seconds to browse the forums and figure out that we liked this particular concept and hated its implementation. There's no good reason why that would scare them away from similar things in the future, they'd just need to get back to releasing better costumes after the contest.
They have put out far, far crappier stuff onto the Z-store, and that hasn't led to removal of any direct sales.
And whether it is released now or a year from now, this stuff is never going to be upgraded to match the concept art. You've been around forever, you know that. We have costume bugs that have been around for literal years, some stuff probably since launch; they simply don't care enough to fix things unless it is absolutely necessary, or happens to be a random thing they target.
I guess any of those things you mentioned could happen, but each one is a remote chance. I would rather just have the option of buying a costume set they already worked on that I might be able to use for a few concepts, even risking the 0.000000000001% chance that releasing this one costume set leads to the collapse of western civilization. :biggrin:
Sounds like nitpicks not major issues. The clipping is a major issue. The eff'd categories are major issues. The scaling being a bit off is a mild annoyance.
You are wrong.
If a produced model differs from the design to the point that a costume part looks not like on the design (and don't tell me they don't, I've made the design thus I know better how they were supposed to look), then it's not a "nitpick", but a failure of the implementation.
3d modeling is a visual craft. It's all about visuals and "nitpicks" like proportions. The visuals are supposed to be right, not to be some random deviation in a random direction. And being right means following project.
Things like concept and production art aren't made for fun, or for display. They are documentation for modelers. Deviations are acceptable if for technical reason things can not be produced exactly as designed.
Here you have a case of model deviating from documentation. In some parts, like wings, its a huge deviation that seriously alters for what costume part can be used.
And there's no real technical reason to do so.
Don't tell that, for an example, wings are not possible to model in a correct way, because both old mechanical bird wings and lockbox ticket reward jet wings have even smaller and finer plating (plus, I've explicitly proved that it is possible to model in a such way). It's doable in CO.
The same goes for tights with deeper geometry - Nighthawk, Cyberpunk, Holo Armor tights.
About the only risky thing is how biceps, thighs and chest of the Variable Robot plated tights would end clipping with any accessory save for the bulkiest armor parts.
But there's already a precedent for this - an older Holo Hex armor has deeply sculpted tights with this kind of clipping, especially on it's chest. And that's per design, as it was simply not supposed to be used with anything but armor parts.
Also true for the Cyberpunk tights - female chest has no boob socks, so it clips with some chest armor.
And why do you think I've drawn default breast size on female tights being smaller than CO default? So it doesn't clip with armor parts on female figures*. Holo Hex Armor tights have similar trick because of their armored plating.
The same reason why the concept sketch has large air intakes or thicker armor plates drawn on chest layers roughly at the height where breasts are placed. So there's a room for female models in it.
It may be that some proportions on tights would need to be changed or adjusted, like platings being thinner or more rounded, or shifted in places - and this would be an understandable deviation.
Implementation-wise there's nothing challenging and unique in this project. All shticks required are already used in older sets.
Everything but tights can be made with subdivision modeling, you don't even need to sculpt and retopology anything with these parts, as they're made of geometric forms. No retopology = one time sink less. Tights may or may not require 3d sculpting depends of a method used, but I'd wager they could be made only with subdivisions as well.
And I've made it sure because before I started drawing for this costume contest I took some time in demorecord looking at model meshes to see how things are built within CO and what is possible and what is not. Yes, you can inspect raw model wireframes, vertex weights and animation skeletons in demorecord.
Having it polished should be a no issue, if it wasn't rushed then there should be enough time for everything.
The only reason I can imagine why it was altered so much is either because the set was handed to a new developer as one of their first assignmets, or simply terribly rushed.
Or it's a side project handed to a developer who's also working on other models and has more important things to do.
I do understand skipping some details, like smaller grills or seam lines between armor plates. Because either they could end being pointless polygon sinks or would end bad in a low texture resolution. Things like that - they are to be expected.
*) - And that's an example why proportions are not just a "nickpick".
Make breasts too big and they start clip with everything.
Make shoulders too large and they start look dull, "weaksauce" and empty, because you eye is drawn to this empty flat surface (it's a natural reaction, can't be escaped, it's how human perception works, composition 101, if you are putting elements like that in your sculpt or painting, the are becoming a focal element unless they're disrupted/balanced with something else).
Plus, they are clipping with some poses and arm accessories.
Make bracers too thin, and now you have character forearms clipping through them when arm is bent at the elbow. This is also happening right now with this set.
Make wings too big, too flat, too thick, too planar and not separated into panels and:
- they're now also "weaksauce" because your eye is again drawn to big empty surfaces,
- and they're now clipping with backward arm movement.
Nope, proportions are not completely unimportant. Changing how things are proportioned may change how model works and its overall feel.
When my Holoforce set was released to PTS, Meatiator (the graphics Dev for Cryptic North at the time) took the time to read feedback and give us reasons why things were not included - e.g Arachnid Legs and Bug Wings were moved to Necra's Psionic Dragon set as the devs felt that was a more organic fit for them. I was happy enough with that reasoning and we have those parts in the game.
But other concerns were dealt with - adding full mask variant of the head for example. That set was released to PTS, Tested, Commented on, Fixed, retested and released. It was also of a much more polished standard before it arrived on PTS the first time - the design was followed as closely as possible within the CO character model and the small changes from design were explained.
But for Meeda's set - to me it looks far from complete and polished and we have had no information from the dev team on why some design changes have occured.
I haven't been posting on the forums for a couple of years, but I decided to stop lurking when I saw this costume on the PTS.
This concept looks really damn cool. I'm not a big fan of vehicles, but a well thought-out costume designed to match them could make me more interested in one. When I saw "NEW COSTUME IN STORE SOON! ROBOTS!" I got really excited, the last few to be released in the store have not been good, in my opinion, and outright terrible compared to the recent lockbox ones. Of course costume sales aren't going to be as good as key sales when the costumes created for the store are of poor quality, and this one is no different.
I have made a (bad) little comparison of the concept and the actual costume, from which I will make my points, free snark included.
All costume pieces are displayed on the default male model on the highest graphics settings.
1. The tights. If it had been the armored tights pictured, this costume piece would have been unique and versatile, but instead we get another, and arguably worse than what we already have, banded chest pattern. 1A is the banded tight one we already have, and I think it speaks for itself. Note that the VR one doesn't have any pseudo-muscle definition like the concept or 1A. Some normals contouring the body could have made it a bit more unique and useful. Obvious mismatch between shoulder and chest, the seam is really bad. The whole thing generally lacks detail.
2. The gloves. The single worst thing about this whole thing. My god. They look like babbys first 3d model. No detail whatsoever. Looks nothing like the concept. No normals? Holy moly. The new defender gloves have the segmented-like fingers and they looked great, so why is this so bad?
3. The head. Giant ear thingies that jut out way too much. No banded neck, no pseudo-muscle there either, jowls look like someone took a spoon and dug them out. What's with the robo-eyebags? General lack of detail around edges (particularly the chin and "lips"). Not pictured, when in the huge stance with the mouth-breathing, the upper lip sticks to the chin and the whole nose area stretches. Guess that's actually a bug. Also the back of the head is almost completely flat, making the neck look way too big for the head. 3A was just to try and replicate the concept. Sad android is sad.
4. The thigh armor. Firstly, it only fits with robotic legs, because reasons. It, like everything else, is lacking in detail. Also, the triangles are invading (seems like there are some unneccesarily sharp edges on the surface of the armor? The one pictured on the side of the armor, not the actual decal).
5. The arms. Now the triangles are joined by their edgier brethren, the squares. The extreme lack of any normals/detail on the bicep armor is just ugh. There's no line down the side, no triangle decal in the front, it just doesn't look like it belongs with the rest of the set. The whole set looks unfinished, but this looks like it was forgotten completely. The bracers look really clunky, and they clip on the back. They look nowhere near as sleek as the concept. I would also think that the part with the arrow was supposed to emulate forearm, not sit on top of it, which might be why this looks strange to me. Overall this piece is just bad and has little versatility due to just looking bad and inconsistent with itself.
6. The chest piece. It ~kinda~ looks like the concept, except less detailed. From the front it looks *alright*. The back is completely flat, except for some more invading triangles and clipping, seen on 6A. It's almost as if this piece was made to always have the back piece attached... And then I saw it from the side. 6B. From the concept it looks like the vents and cockpit make out the upper torso, and the nose of the jet the lower torso. The profile would have looked infinitely better if the nose was pulled inwards towards the abdomen, creating more of a waist. The square part at the bottom of the cockpit should connect with the glass at the exposed top side, moving the nose inwards and a bit down. I think the concept intended it that way? I could be wrong.
The side also lacks detail, and instead of the piece forming a torso, it looks like it sits on top of a torso much like a vest with an attachment on it, which doesn't make much sense if you're a transforming robot? It also doesn't have a lot of versatility because of how damn big this thing is. If you're not wearing the complementary belt, or a similarly bulky hip armor, it's gonna be hard to get synergy with other costume pieces. Also the chest piece contorts strangely when playing with the bulk of your character, particularly near the shoulders.
7. The belt. It doesn't actually cover the whole crotch, which will probably end up looking weird with the robotic legs. Also triangles on the top surface.
8. The helmet. This is really really bad. It has ZERO detail. No vents on the top or side. Comically wide. 8A. Loadsa squares on every surface, particularly pronounced on the back. This joins the gloves and bicep armor in being extraordinarily unfinished.
9. The Shoulders. The vents are just square little shelves to put your knick-knacks in. The edge of the screws(?) look way too large compared to the "head" of the screw. The costume piece itself is too masive and sits too high on the shoulders. This is particularly visible in 9A, where a nice hole in the mesh is in clear view. 9B nicely shows the piece clipping with itself?.
10. The boots. From the front they kinda look like the concept. But upon closer inspection it lacks detail, just like the rest of the costume. The triangle in front of the vent is clipping into it. The details on the heel and the ball of the foot are nowhere to be seen. The foot shouldbe split between these two points as well, it is not. The "wings" on the back is a weird square growth instead, particularly obvious on pictures 10A and 10B. Also the details on the top of the "wing" don't extend across the top to the other side. Lack of detail, unfinished, yadda yadda yadda.
11. The wings. Big clunky-looking cockpit, sits too high, and doesn't fit the contour of the back and neck like the concept. Also more invading triangles on all curved surfaces, particularly visible on the jets in picture 11A. The profile looks really poor. It only connects to the body between the shoulderblades and the wings aren't thin enough/tapered to a thin edge along the top. They also don't carry the appearance of being different segments due to everything on the wings being in the same plane. Lack of attention to detail. Also has clipping issues with the arms sometimes due to not being angled more backwards.
All in all this is just not in a state where it should be released, not even close. It seems like the whole costume was made as a singular entity, then split apart, which would explain a lot of things. The shoulders having visible holes in the mesh, because those areas are "supposed" to be covered by the chest piece, the back of the chest piece is "supposed" to be covered by the wings so that the clipping and completely untextured back is hidden from view, and so on and so forth. This costume only looks semi-decent combined with other parts of the same set, which is a shame, as the original artist intended it to have much more versatility in the individual parts.
There are meshy polygon triangle and square things all over the costume, which looks like a lack of smoothing i think? I'm not entirely into the 3d modelling lingo, but I'm trying my best. The hands, bicep part of the arm armor, and the helmet barely have any distinctive shape to associate them with the costume. They look like the 3d equivalent of a very rough sketch. They are just not done. The whole thing doesn't look done.
So far it looks as if it will join the urban anime and scientist costumes for a 3/3 streak of rushed, unfinished costumes. Again, no wonder they sell less than the keys when the lockbox ones look infinitely better. Why couldn't those artists work on the store costumes as well? It just seems like such a massive gap in quality between them, and in my opinion it seems a bit shady that you can only get the good-looking, polished sets from boxes these days.
I own every costume in the store apart from the scientist, and a few tights tights, and this costume will likely join them. God damn. And I was so excited too.
I'm sorry if this seems like nitpicking or me being overly harsh, but it's because I want good, finished, polished costumes. Costumes that do their concept art justice. New costumes have kept me coming back to this game for years, tweaking my characters or creating new ones, but when the quality is just so low that they're not worth buying, well, that's a damn shame.
3. The head. Giant ear thingies that jut out way too much. No banded neck, no pseudo-muscle there either, jowls look like someone took a spoon and dug them out. What's with the robo-eyebags? General lack of detail around edges (particularly the chin and "lips"). Not pictured, when in the huge stance with the mouth-breathing, the upper lip sticks to the chin and the whole nose area stretches. Guess that's actually a bug. Also the back of the head is almost completely flat, making the neck look way too big for the head. 3A was just to try and replicate the concept. Sad android is sad.
It also has this strange idea with too much detailing in another area creating a strange "beak" around mouth and between eyes, which actually makes it far less elegant in look than having a featureless faceplate framed by eyebrows, cheeks and mouth.
You are also right about "ears" being too big. Overall head looks very crude. Original intent was to have something more subtle and lifelike. Like a cybernetic equivalent of CO organic noseless alien head. As it is now CO has crude robotic heads in abundance, so there's not a big need for one more.
Oh, but if you are asking about eyebags, I think that the head is simply unfinished. Because it looks more like eye sockets are in the wrong place and eyes are hovering close to them.
A very informative post overall. Especially this part about faces being set to flat shading, thus producing a lot of triangles everywhere.
But it all looks more and more like this set is just only partially finished, and months from actual release. Shouldn't be probably put on PTS so fast.
It's like set is still in the work and someone requested it to be put on the PTS ASAP, so it was hastily wrapped together and ported.
Slow down okay ? You're spitting on a dev team that has nothing to work with and you're making claims you won't be able to stand up to. I understand that meeda is disappointed but the devs can not do miracles, neither can they accept free help because that's not how it works. They love CO and you're not going to tell me you'd rather have nothing than have something. I'll buy it if it comes out like that.
The dev team has nothing to work with? Define 'nothing', because where I come from we speak English and this word has a different meaning than what you're implying. The wealth of feedback on these very forums is overall ignored. Past sales of overwhelmingly popular costume sets is overall ignored. Years of experience working on these costumes with the players showing what they can do, even with a little 'clipping' is overall ignored. If they have 'nothing to work with', that's because they're choosing to ignore the tools.
Meeda is disappointed? He's the MOST disappointed and has every right to be. EVERYONE is disappointed here. Hell, I wanted new weapons if nothing else, and that was a MAJOR selling point that secured my vote for this one. But the majority of what made this concept good has been thrown out. I can clearly see that Meeda wasn't just making a 'Transformer costume'. If you go back and look at those parts- it was entirely possible to use a LOT of those parts for other types of character concepts as well. Now, it's limited to its singular comical set.
Would I rather have 'nothing than something'? What planet do you live on? Is Cryptic a business, or an abusive parent to you? Do you go order a burger, get a raw slab of meat with stale buns, and say 'well, it is better than nothing'. NO, because you are a paying customer and the person making the burger is a business. You fanboys need to get this notion out of your head that Cryptic is your play-pals. Allow me to educate you:
Cryptic's devs seem to be all right guys. They're probably great people. I enjoy interacting with them. However, for matters involving these costume sets- they are a business and I am a paying customer. They are not earning any charity bucks from me just for trying. Sorry, that's not how it works. I don't make enough money to support someone just because I want to be nice. This costume will likely be $10.00. That's enough to make dinner for a week, if I'm careful. That's gas money to get to work. That will replace parts on my truck that are wearing out.
Feel free to throw your money at this costume set if you personally like it. However, if you are spending money just because you feel bad for the devs or you think it 'supports the game', you are part of the problem. Dishonest financial support and false positive feedback does not improve the game. Sometimes, the Devs need that negative lashing. It improves the product, because while a person needs to know what he does that is well-received- he also needs to know what was not. It gives him a ground to work within to see how to maximize his financial gain.
Fixing this is not a 'miracle'. I propose the following options-
-Put this back on the drawing board and focus on the Steel Arachnid costume set. Come back to this one later, perhaps have it working in the background a little at a time between other sets.
-Go ahead and release this, but release it as 'mark 1'. Add other sets with more diversity [and better quality] as 'Mark 2' and 'Mark 3'.
Comments
It wouldn't be that hard or challenging to build it more appealing for other characters. The set as it was on my sketch was actually more flexible than this thing eventually produced by Cryptic.
Not because of a number of parts (I was pretty aware than not every possible vehicle part can me stuffed into one set and many suggestions will have to be left out), but because there was actual tought put behind some gimmicks in it.
Except Cryptic stripped the concept from all these gimmicks, namely:
- no gunhand/bladehand sharing the same bracer model.
- no weapon model.
- no plated tights (or rather an alternative torso/legs model, see Nighthawk or Cyberpunk) that could be actually useful for other kinds of robotic or armored characters.
Because not everyone is a fan of silly skeletal robot legs with exposed everything. Actually, quite a few people are not. Again, I had tells ingame that having an option for a full robotic body without skeletal limbs was a good idea.
Current PTS Variable Robot tights? They are completely unneeded,. There are already, like three or four, patterns of banded tights ingame, all are of higher quality and will do better in any costume.
- the head model is very crude compared to sketches, Cryptic amped up and exaggerated plating, so it now ends in line with other CO cartoonish robot heads.
That was not the intent. Look how subtle yet geometric is a Cosmic Knight mask. Its what I'm now using for mechanoid heads.
We already have crude noseless robot heads. What's the point in wasting a time and effort for making one more with a slightly different plating?
- model for hands is absolutely simplified. On sketch there are clearly visible seam lines on joints. Not present on the model and that makes hands looking like they were cut from foam board.
But this one could be fixed with normalmaps.
- not even an attempt at camouflage. Could be used for quite a few concepts.
Now, I know from experience that texturing a camouflage can be a pain in the back because some patterns with long strokes can end terrible with texture seams going trough them. But some generic patterns are not composed with long strokes, especially so-called "digital" patterns, or patterns made of scattered blots.
- only wings jetpack was made (Is this at least a real jetpack with jet animation, like other jetpacks?), no turbines jetpack.
As it was designed, it could be actually useful for armored or robotic, but a non-transformer, toons.
Someone should have, at the very least, this terribly ugly wings jetpack remodeled.
The wing module is some kind of simplified cardboard cutout, it does not look even remotely as on sketches.
It's probably the laziest geometry I ever saw. And the way how flat it is, it will clip horribly with character moves.
Just look at it and compare it to paneled jet wings released as a reward for opening lockboxes. The difference in detailing is staggering.
It needs a closer look at the art and redo at least this jetpack from the scratch.
Oh, and even with changes that Cryptic said they are willing to do, and maybe even with a better jetpack, I hope this set will not be priced for more than old Sakura Mecha armor.
Actually, because so many possibilities were discarded, it's even more limited in scope than the Sakura.
Sakura Mecha is actually useful for a wide spectrum of tech characters..
I hope they won't be selling it for any highest price, certainly not for 1000 Zen. It's not worth it.
Variable Robot, as it was made, is useful only for transforming mecha and that's only if they turn into Hawkwings. It falls short even as a generic transformer set, or a general purpose mecha set, really.
But even as a "Hawkwing set" it needs to have at least this wings module remodeled.
This is a great explanation of many folks' views in-game regarding clipping and categories.
Very nicely explained.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
@Chimerafreek
(Eyebrows not included...)
Only the Blue Leg Parts have one colorchannel option available.
(And the bluish robot legs are separate, ofcourse)
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
- Not sure if this has been in the feedback but I'll say it just in case. Variable Robot Belt is unable to be used in conjunction with the Left Shoulder Pad for the same set. My suggestion would be to copy the belt piece into "Hip Gear" in order for it to be used, but also retain a copy for normal belt usage. Or better yet...resolve the conflict another way. If not this happens:
As you can see the belt piece is missing.
EDIT: From what Flyingfinn has posted this issue seems to be restricted to the female Variable Robot costume.
- The set feels unfinished in some respects (just echoing what others have reported back earlier). Also this occurs when attempting to use the Cyborg arms with the set:
Personal Opinions/Feedback
- Unfortunately the Variable Robot Costume set is not to my taste, but I am confident other players will find many uses for it.
- The set could do with some polish in general, it feels unfinished.
- I am glad you announced that the set will be coming "Soon", so I hope that means there will be significant improvements and fixes made to the set so those who want to use it can use it well.
Other thoughts
I am not aware of the schedule of what needs to be produced when or what goes into creating a costume set. However, I am disappointed to see the amount of robotic/space costume pieces that have come along recently, whilst additions to the game are welcome (provided they done well), I would like to see more sets like, wait not even like, I want this one:
Heroic Fashion
I think it is high time that CO got some new and good looking modern styles of clothing, hair and shoes for our characters. The thread linked has a lot of support on it and was also a submission in the costume contest. I cannot speak for others but I can speak for myself when I say I would REALLY like that set in game as well as some interesting auras:
Auras (This isn't the only aura thread out there but its the one I created, so I linked it)
I would really like to see Heroic Fashion in game, it is a wonder it isn't already there actually.
My Characters on PRIMUS
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I'm going to go try something later, though, with the veteran-reward wings (Art Deco, I think? Anyway, the big curvy ones), as those look at least vaguely like the wings on a Hawkwing.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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It's Legoformer or Cosplayformer. Or ChineseHasbroToyKnock-offFormer.
But that's a matter of taste, while they don't look very sleek and "Hawkwing-ish", they could go well with tank vehicles.
Except they don't have an optional camouflage pattern, so they can't. Which again defeats a large part of possible utility this set could have.
Which again is a pity, because a camo pattern would work very well with large flat surfaces.
And, really, how anyone could be thinking that making wings backpiece in the most crude, the least useful way possible was a good idea, I can't fathom.
Geez, from the side wings are looking even more ugly. Just, ugh... My eyes. No way it could work as a part of jetformer costume. It looks nothing like wings of any kind.
Indeed you will do much better with veteran reward art deco wings. They look so much better that this one.
This is the least useful heavy armor set to this day. There's absolutely no reason for wasting time, effort and resources for having it made in this shape.
Seriously, why it was even made? This project should be abandoned entirely, it has no chances of ending well. And that's coming from a someone who submitted this costume idea.
Now it's my private theory that this set was used as a training ground for an entry level developer to teach them.
Things like bad unwraps (look at this seam line vertically across the chest, that's not a kind of mistake you can do with unwrapping if you have any kind of practice), bad geometry (torso weighting), going for the most simple modeling like wings being made as a one flat plate (the most basic modeling possible with extrude and mirroring), randomly assigned costume categories - it all makes it rather obvious.
Dear Cryptic, time for damage control is now.
Cancel this set.
Vaporise it before it's too late and this trainwreck will hit the rails. It will not end well for anyone interested. A few players with extremely low expectations might be overenjoyed with it, but that's not worth the trouble coming with releasing it.
Turn around and forget this thing was ever made.
What this set needs is to be canceled and never revisited again.
Unless this game is back again to Cryptic North and people responsible for the Holoforce, Psi Dragon and Cosmic Knight.
What I'll write right now might be weird, considering that I have two transforming robot toons and one of them has a Hawkwing as her alt mode, but...
I have no use for this set. I mean, looking at what was built. Zero. Null.
There's no quality, no flexiblity. I have no access to PTS, but if I can point at huge mistakes even by looking at screenshots, then you know that's an incoming defeat.
I was about to ask TT if I can count for one free copy of the costume for myself, as it was with the Cosmic Knight. Well, that was before I saw how the costume is coming together. After that I've lost my interest completely, knowing I'll have no use for it.
I'd say it's a special kind of failure when such judgement comes from a person who did draw the designs, isn't it?
Also. As I am sure that there will be at least one apologist insisting at "let's wait until it's released".
Nope.
Because fixing this costume would require like throwing away at least wings and tights, then these two parts would need to be redone completely.
The rest would need to be retextured. Thats almost like making a new set and I'm pretty sure that whoever was working at this marvel is unable to do any better.
I'm sure this amount of rework is not within the scope for Cryptic and they will not change the modeler.
Damn sure it won't happen, so the set is doomed.
Oh, and the fun part.
The way how wings were drawn on my sketch was trademark safe. This kind of wing arrangement by having them split and folded half-lenght, and then moved backward is rarely used.
But they way Crytic did simplify this piece, well... I'll put it that way - try to google "G1 Starscream", "G1 Skywarp" or "G1 Thundercracker". Or "G1 Seeker".
The outcome is nothing short of hilarious.
Makes me wonder why I've even tried to made it looking as distant from a certain franchise as it was only possible?
I think I'll have to apologise to anyone who was waiting for this set. But also to people who were hoping for any other set being voted in a costume concept. Like the Spordelia's one.
I swear that if I knew what Cryptic intends to do with it, I wouldn't submit it.
I would not risk taking a place in the final 5 that could be taken by any other concept.
Not if I knew this will be the outcome.
Joke's on me, lol.
And this one goes to Cryptic:
I don't think you understand what is happening. People were expecting a level of quality on pair with the Holoforce when it comes to other contest pieces. That's why it ended so criticised with Urban Anime and with Variable Robot.
With VR is even worse, because you can't see it right now after all images being for so long on FB and Arc media, but it was third in voting at the time of the contest.
So it had certain expectations attached.
People saw the Holoforce and were thinking how the Variable Robot might look with the same quality because it came third in votes, and after very good Holoforce and Psi Dragon they had all rights to have such expectation.
But wait, there's more!
Remember, the final five took two sets sketched by me.
Which means someone else was not lucky.
Someone who could, quite possibly, produce something better. Or just something different.
And now everyone who had issue with it will look at this unimpressive set and will ask things like: "This is it? This is what took the third place? THIS? Why it was picked over anything else for voting? What were they thinking?"
Yeah.
Again, apologies to everyone for submitting this costume idea.
Here's hoping future sets and contests will end much better.
And yeah, someone should look into Spordelia's ideas.
But, for all that is holy, do not give it to the same modeler.
Heroic Fashion Variable Robot Quality Level Edition could be funny, but not in a good way.
I also like the general look of it. But I don't like the issues that it has.
Maybe Gobots was the inspiration If we are going with cheap transformer knockoffs, of course if no one remembers that show (*which is funnily enough now owned by Hasbro*) this will look kind of silly.
I had two GoBots with Autobot stickers slapped on them and enlisted as my original characters along a real Autobot toys. :biggrin:
MAJOR letdown on this... Again, imo, that would be the BEST selling point on this set.
The shoulders are ugly and clip with everything. Consider making them a trifle smaller, and perhaps less blocky. Right now, as noted above, they're more Go-Bots than Transformers. That's not a compliment.
The chest piece clips with its own arms pieces; consider narrowing it a touch.
The wings clip with your elbows while you're standing still. Angling them like the Art Deco wings would help a lot.
Using the Variable Robot leg or foot pieces will force you into Robotic Legs. Either introduce a new, more solid robot leg to underlie this, or stop forcing the category. Robot Legs as designed in the game are spindly, exactly the opposite of the feel you're going for here.
The design I eventually used had the VR Helmet on an Android head, one of the simpler shoulder pieces (can't recall which at the moment), VR Arms with Blaster gloves (an example of the good kind of clipping, as the upper part of the Blaster cut through the VR Arm piece and gave it some interesting texture), VR Chest, Mech Subligar, Mecha Leg Accessories, and Jet Boots, with Banded metal tights top and bottom, and the Art Deco wings. I upped the Height slider to the max, played with the colors for a while, and eventually had a robot that would convert into a Hawkwing Assault Ship. I'll post pictures later - this computer doesn't like to do that.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I had a few Gobots as well
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6haMilz6BD7S0w3N3BFcXhKYWs/view?usp=sharing
There is some really bad clipping near the midsection of the female model while in flight. I haven't tested it on the ground yet though
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6haMilz6BD7S3FoTi1QaEFOTE0/view?usp=sharing
The left shoulder piece is missing from the female models chest wear. In addition the Variable Robot tights are not available under other category.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6haMilz6BD7bXdVTlg4YzhiejQ/view?usp=sharing
Even while standing still the chest piece near the stomach is bent/oddly angled.
All the Gobots and such jokes aside I'll say it for what it is, a cheap ripoff of Starscream that doesn't match up with hardly any of our vehicles which completely misses the point of the set.
The Holoforce and Psonic Dragon sets of course didn't exactly follow the concepts but damn near did and are some of the best pieces, this just seems like a cruel joke being played on the original designer.
Either this, or the Variable Robot head has eyebrows placed too low. But my bet is it's the helmet.
Also the helmet lacks detailing like a central ridge grill and screws (see the art).
Also, boots are seriously wrong. Look at the art. Those parts at the back of the calf are not supposed to be some additional blocks, but a small wings. They even share deco with backpack wings!
And again look at the art, look how smaller and sleeker are the back wings, that their upper tips have deco loosely based on Hawkwing wing tips, that the upper art showing the entire set has shading clearly showing that wings are bent backward to not interfere with arms.
That the entire costume part is called a jetpack, thus should be a functional jetpack with a jetpack FX.
Remove the restrictions!! Let us use the boots in all categories, not just robotic legs. Same with the back piece, shouldn't be limited to just chest wear.
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@Benevon
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Hardly the masterwork of 3d modeling, obviously not even unwrapped, but it gets the job done in showing how wings should be arranged.
Now compare it to the concept art and you'll see similarities. Also, overall wings proportions - they are sleeker and look like an actual airplane wings.
And they are bent backward. They will not get in the way of arms movement.
Also, windshield and jet engines proportions are better visible.
Those twin pylons on the front may look strange, but it's just my private idea how to resolve attaching it to the character back when it's not used in conjunction with any armored chest - even if there would be a tiny gap pylons could be simply clipping into character back.
So, it would not be necessary to match the jetpack precisely with character's back, and it would still look like being attached instead of magically hovering next to the body.
In short, it will simply make things easier for everyone. From a modeler to players.
Also, frames on windshields on back and chest will be better to build with normals than with geometry.
If they are built with normalmaps only, you can have an alternative texture for them that is exactly the same like the base one, but has no window frames and windows, and in their place is just a plain armored plate.
This way set will be useful also for characters who are heavy armor users, but who are not vehicular transforming robots/cyborgs/whatever.
It will only add to the appeal of this set and all it takes is a quick job in photoshop with simply removing windows - that's all what it will take to have an alternate normalmap texture for backpack and chestpiece.
EXACTLY. I would GLADLY shell out 1000 zen for the ENTIRE Variable set, not just the few pieces from the light options and the friggin banded tights THAT WEVE ALREADY HAD IN GME THE ENTIRE TIME. So, Cryptic, do you want my money or not? That simple.
Look guys, its really very simple, either listen to meedacthunist and get the set done correctly or just delete it. Already people are telling each other on Live not to waste the money on it, hell I'm LTS and I wouldn't even spend the free Zen I get on it.
Either listen and do it right or it won't sell, we'll all make sure of that.
Slow down okay ? You're spitting on a dev team that has nothing to work with and you're making claims you won't be able to stand up to. I understand that meeda is disappointed but the devs can not do miracles, neither can they accept free help because that's not how it works. They love CO and you're not going to tell me you'd rather have nothing than have something. I'll buy it if it comes out like that.
(°∇° ) #megalodon2015
Actually, I think that's what a lot of people are saying. They would rather it was never released than released as it is. Understandable really.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Actually, I think they mean it.
And that's not an irrational request at all.
We all know that once a costume is released it's set in stone in its current shape, save for a bugfixes (IF there are bugfixes), thus any room for improvement is no longer there.
The set released as it is means that it will always be like that (but by "as it is" I mean - with all materials and geometry, textures and categories fixed). Any possibilities for having it better will be a zero.
If it's not released, but instead lingers in a development limbo, chances are that some day, at some unprecised distant point in the future, when the dev team is switched again, or there are more resources, it might be revisited in a better way on pair with the Holoforce or Psi Dragon.
Those chances will be very, very small, almost nonexistent.
It might take long months if not years.
But there will be a chance, and that's better than no chance at all.
So, yeah. I think they mean it. So do I. So do quite a few others.
In the worst case scenario not releasing this costume, having nothing than having something, might be a better option.
Now, there are few conditions when releasing this set in its minimalistic shape might work, despite it being bough only by a few people.
For an example, if this set is sold for a low price, on pair with the cheapest category old sets.
This is where it belongs in terms of flexibility and quality and a low price point might help in making it desirable for enough people.
Or if this set was bough with an ingame currency, like Mechanon's parts.
But wait till this set is released at a highest price point for costumes, or even at a medium price point and if you think that what you see now is an unneeded negativity, then wait for comments afterwards.
It will be even more interesting.
Worse case scenario, if the set won't sell well enough, chances are that people upstairs might decide that it's useless to release more Z-Store sets and will focus on lockboxed costumes, or that community contests like this one are pointless.
Because statistics told them that a new Z-Store set did not sell.
But it's good that at least someone did mention this one, finally. A company can't use a free help on a paid content. The only way player created content can be put ingame is to have it as a freebie, like Kaizerin's texture mods. Even if they wanted, Cryptic simply can't accept player's created assets for Z-Store costumes.
People already have a negative view of the CO devs releasing poorly designed costumes, especially after the blog about raising the cost of costumes, will only making it worse. In this case nothing would most certainly be better.
Due to all of these problems, I really have to agree with most of the people here that it should not be released in this state. But let's be completely honest, it will and cost 600 zen.
[SIGPIC]http://imgur.com/9gptU4e[/SIGPIC]
At the moment, I'm happy Cryptic released this set more than the night before release so that it actually has time to be fixed up.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
2 - Wings are looking weird. Engine gondoles are ok, the windshield is almost ok (needs to be a tiny bit less bulky), but the wings themselves are only vaguely shaped like on the art.
They need to be remade from the scratch. The entire unit needs to look like actual wings.
3 - Arm and thight accessories were not supposed to be a separate elements, but plating on tights.
Failing modeling tights, then at least arm and thighs accessories needs to be rescaled to be far less bulky. Especially thighs accessories. They're far too large.
4 - Bracers, on the oher hand, should be rescaled to be more bulky, to avoid clipping with character forearms.
At least those things should be addressed as a complete minimum, without even adding anything. Being realistic in expectations and everything.
Then this set might actually work as a 600 Zen purchase. Sakura Mecha is 750 Zen, this set will be similar in theme but less flexible in terms how many character concepts work with it, so 600 Zen looks reasonable.
But that's provided it's debugged, like no random categories, no bad geometry, no texture seam lines and all materials (cloth, metal, leather) are in place.
Still will be better for Cryptic to actually avoid hyping this release on Arc and on FB, but it can pass.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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@Chimerafreek
I don't understand it. Dev time has already been invested, so we aren't saving anything there. Some people would buy it, so it makes some money for the company. Some people would use it, so members of the community are benefitting. Aside from petulance, there is no tangible reason to rather have nothing.
If an item is released and does not sell well enough to generate target revenue there is a possibility of that being interpreted as a failure of the concept not the implementation. This could mean no more robotic costume sets, or no more fan contest sets, no more (or fewer) direct sale sets, etc. Any of these possibilities are reason enough to prefer the set not be released in this state. Of course then there is the expectation that, if it is released in this state, it will not ever be upgraded to match the concept art.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
This is the wrong way to determine something is a failure. This is obvious.
This is also the way Cryptic has proven it does things.
Sounds like nitpicks not major issues. The clipping is a major issue. The eff'd categories are major issues. The scaling being a bit off is a mild annoyance.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I think after ~5 years of wildly varying quality and only rare glimpses of the ability to incorporate feedback into their plans, that ship has probably sailed. People's expectations are what they are, devs' plans are going to be what they decide on, and I don't see much changing either one of those.
They've released plenty of crap in the past that nobody bought (seemingly, based on costumes seen in-game). They've released plenty of great stuff that just about everybody bought. There has been no consistency from one set to the next, which makes it difficult to see much correlation there.
I get that in many arenas of life, quality is rewarded with profitability, which leads to greater quality; conversely, mediocrity is rewarded with apathy, which leads to even lower standards. However, that does seem to be the case in CO, whatsoever. They'll continue to do a good job on some stuff, and they'll continue to rush some stuff that ends up being about 50% of what we would've liked. Our reception of both crap and gold has nothing to do with the quality of what they put out next.
If they don't make any more robotic costume sets, that wouldn't be a very big deal for detractors since apparently the current team isn't capable of making one that is to everyone's liking.
I can't see that one failed branch of the fan contest sets would have any real negative impact on their decision-making there, considering how successful Holoforce and others were. It would take a decision-maker all of ten seconds to browse the forums and figure out that we liked this particular concept and hated its implementation. There's no good reason why that would scare them away from similar things in the future, they'd just need to get back to releasing better costumes after the contest.
They have put out far, far crappier stuff onto the Z-store, and that hasn't led to removal of any direct sales.
And whether it is released now or a year from now, this stuff is never going to be upgraded to match the concept art. You've been around forever, you know that. We have costume bugs that have been around for literal years, some stuff probably since launch; they simply don't care enough to fix things unless it is absolutely necessary, or happens to be a random thing they target.
I guess any of those things you mentioned could happen, but each one is a remote chance. I would rather just have the option of buying a costume set they already worked on that I might be able to use for a few concepts, even risking the 0.000000000001% chance that releasing this one costume set leads to the collapse of western civilization. :biggrin:
You are wrong.
If a produced model differs from the design to the point that a costume part looks not like on the design (and don't tell me they don't, I've made the design thus I know better how they were supposed to look), then it's not a "nitpick", but a failure of the implementation.
3d modeling is a visual craft. It's all about visuals and "nitpicks" like proportions. The visuals are supposed to be right, not to be some random deviation in a random direction. And being right means following project.
Things like concept and production art aren't made for fun, or for display. They are documentation for modelers. Deviations are acceptable if for technical reason things can not be produced exactly as designed.
Here you have a case of model deviating from documentation. In some parts, like wings, its a huge deviation that seriously alters for what costume part can be used.
And there's no real technical reason to do so.
Don't tell that, for an example, wings are not possible to model in a correct way, because both old mechanical bird wings and lockbox ticket reward jet wings have even smaller and finer plating (plus, I've explicitly proved that it is possible to model in a such way). It's doable in CO.
The same goes for tights with deeper geometry - Nighthawk, Cyberpunk, Holo Armor tights.
About the only risky thing is how biceps, thighs and chest of the Variable Robot plated tights would end clipping with any accessory save for the bulkiest armor parts.
But there's already a precedent for this - an older Holo Hex armor has deeply sculpted tights with this kind of clipping, especially on it's chest. And that's per design, as it was simply not supposed to be used with anything but armor parts.
Also true for the Cyberpunk tights - female chest has no boob socks, so it clips with some chest armor.
And why do you think I've drawn default breast size on female tights being smaller than CO default? So it doesn't clip with armor parts on female figures*. Holo Hex Armor tights have similar trick because of their armored plating.
The same reason why the concept sketch has large air intakes or thicker armor plates drawn on chest layers roughly at the height where breasts are placed. So there's a room for female models in it.
It may be that some proportions on tights would need to be changed or adjusted, like platings being thinner or more rounded, or shifted in places - and this would be an understandable deviation.
Implementation-wise there's nothing challenging and unique in this project. All shticks required are already used in older sets.
Everything but tights can be made with subdivision modeling, you don't even need to sculpt and retopology anything with these parts, as they're made of geometric forms. No retopology = one time sink less. Tights may or may not require 3d sculpting depends of a method used, but I'd wager they could be made only with subdivisions as well.
And I've made it sure because before I started drawing for this costume contest I took some time in demorecord looking at model meshes to see how things are built within CO and what is possible and what is not. Yes, you can inspect raw model wireframes, vertex weights and animation skeletons in demorecord.
Having it polished should be a no issue, if it wasn't rushed then there should be enough time for everything.
The only reason I can imagine why it was altered so much is either because the set was handed to a new developer as one of their first assignmets, or simply terribly rushed.
Or it's a side project handed to a developer who's also working on other models and has more important things to do.
I do understand skipping some details, like smaller grills or seam lines between armor plates. Because either they could end being pointless polygon sinks or would end bad in a low texture resolution. Things like that - they are to be expected.
*) - And that's an example why proportions are not just a "nickpick".
Make breasts too big and they start clip with everything.
Make shoulders too large and they start look dull, "weaksauce" and empty, because you eye is drawn to this empty flat surface (it's a natural reaction, can't be escaped, it's how human perception works, composition 101, if you are putting elements like that in your sculpt or painting, the are becoming a focal element unless they're disrupted/balanced with something else).
Plus, they are clipping with some poses and arm accessories.
Make bracers too thin, and now you have character forearms clipping through them when arm is bent at the elbow. This is also happening right now with this set.
Make wings too big, too flat, too thick, too planar and not separated into panels and:
- they're now also "weaksauce" because your eye is again drawn to big empty surfaces,
- and they're now clipping with backward arm movement.
Nope, proportions are not completely unimportant. Changing how things are proportioned may change how model works and its overall feel.
When my Holoforce set was released to PTS, Meatiator (the graphics Dev for Cryptic North at the time) took the time to read feedback and give us reasons why things were not included - e.g Arachnid Legs and Bug Wings were moved to Necra's Psionic Dragon set as the devs felt that was a more organic fit for them. I was happy enough with that reasoning and we have those parts in the game.
But other concerns were dealt with - adding full mask variant of the head for example. That set was released to PTS, Tested, Commented on, Fixed, retested and released. It was also of a much more polished standard before it arrived on PTS the first time - the design was followed as closely as possible within the CO character model and the small changes from design were explained.
But for Meeda's set - to me it looks far from complete and polished and we have had no information from the dev team on why some design changes have occured.
@Liath | My PRIMUS Page | Altaholics | New Vehicle Models | New Emblems | Flag Tights
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This concept looks really damn cool. I'm not a big fan of vehicles, but a well thought-out costume designed to match them could make me more interested in one. When I saw "NEW COSTUME IN STORE SOON! ROBOTS!" I got really excited, the last few to be released in the store have not been good, in my opinion, and outright terrible compared to the recent lockbox ones. Of course costume sales aren't going to be as good as key sales when the costumes created for the store are of poor quality, and this one is no different.
I have made a (bad) little comparison of the concept and the actual costume, from which I will make my points, free snark included.
All costume pieces are displayed on the default male model on the highest graphics settings.
(Apparently the file is too large to embed, so link is here: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/12575975/rollout.png, I'd recommend having it open next to my post or it won't make much sense)
1. The tights. If it had been the armored tights pictured, this costume piece would have been unique and versatile, but instead we get another, and arguably worse than what we already have, banded chest pattern. 1A is the banded tight one we already have, and I think it speaks for itself. Note that the VR one doesn't have any pseudo-muscle definition like the concept or 1A. Some normals contouring the body could have made it a bit more unique and useful. Obvious mismatch between shoulder and chest, the seam is really bad. The whole thing generally lacks detail.
2. The gloves. The single worst thing about this whole thing. My god. They look like babbys first 3d model. No detail whatsoever. Looks nothing like the concept. No normals? Holy moly. The new defender gloves have the segmented-like fingers and they looked great, so why is this so bad?
3. The head. Giant ear thingies that jut out way too much. No banded neck, no pseudo-muscle there either, jowls look like someone took a spoon and dug them out. What's with the robo-eyebags? General lack of detail around edges (particularly the chin and "lips"). Not pictured, when in the huge stance with the mouth-breathing, the upper lip sticks to the chin and the whole nose area stretches. Guess that's actually a bug. Also the back of the head is almost completely flat, making the neck look way too big for the head. 3A was just to try and replicate the concept. Sad android is sad.
4. The thigh armor. Firstly, it only fits with robotic legs, because reasons. It, like everything else, is lacking in detail. Also, the triangles are invading (seems like there are some unneccesarily sharp edges on the surface of the armor? The one pictured on the side of the armor, not the actual decal).
5. The arms. Now the triangles are joined by their edgier brethren, the squares. The extreme lack of any normals/detail on the bicep armor is just ugh. There's no line down the side, no triangle decal in the front, it just doesn't look like it belongs with the rest of the set. The whole set looks unfinished, but this looks like it was forgotten completely. The bracers look really clunky, and they clip on the back. They look nowhere near as sleek as the concept. I would also think that the part with the arrow was supposed to emulate forearm, not sit on top of it, which might be why this looks strange to me. Overall this piece is just bad and has little versatility due to just looking bad and inconsistent with itself.
6. The chest piece. It ~kinda~ looks like the concept, except less detailed. From the front it looks *alright*. The back is completely flat, except for some more invading triangles and clipping, seen on 6A. It's almost as if this piece was made to always have the back piece attached... And then I saw it from the side. 6B. From the concept it looks like the vents and cockpit make out the upper torso, and the nose of the jet the lower torso. The profile would have looked infinitely better if the nose was pulled inwards towards the abdomen, creating more of a waist. The square part at the bottom of the cockpit should connect with the glass at the exposed top side, moving the nose inwards and a bit down. I think the concept intended it that way? I could be wrong.
The side also lacks detail, and instead of the piece forming a torso, it looks like it sits on top of a torso much like a vest with an attachment on it, which doesn't make much sense if you're a transforming robot? It also doesn't have a lot of versatility because of how damn big this thing is. If you're not wearing the complementary belt, or a similarly bulky hip armor, it's gonna be hard to get synergy with other costume pieces. Also the chest piece contorts strangely when playing with the bulk of your character, particularly near the shoulders.
7. The belt. It doesn't actually cover the whole crotch, which will probably end up looking weird with the robotic legs. Also triangles on the top surface.
8. The helmet. This is really really bad. It has ZERO detail. No vents on the top or side. Comically wide. 8A. Loadsa squares on every surface, particularly pronounced on the back. This joins the gloves and bicep armor in being extraordinarily unfinished.
9. The Shoulders. The vents are just square little shelves to put your knick-knacks in. The edge of the screws(?) look way too large compared to the "head" of the screw. The costume piece itself is too masive and sits too high on the shoulders. This is particularly visible in 9A, where a nice hole in the mesh is in clear view. 9B nicely shows the piece clipping with itself?.
10. The boots. From the front they kinda look like the concept. But upon closer inspection it lacks detail, just like the rest of the costume. The triangle in front of the vent is clipping into it. The details on the heel and the ball of the foot are nowhere to be seen. The foot shouldbe split between these two points as well, it is not. The "wings" on the back is a weird square growth instead, particularly obvious on pictures 10A and 10B. Also the details on the top of the "wing" don't extend across the top to the other side. Lack of detail, unfinished, yadda yadda yadda.
11. The wings. Big clunky-looking cockpit, sits too high, and doesn't fit the contour of the back and neck like the concept. Also more invading triangles on all curved surfaces, particularly visible on the jets in picture 11A. The profile looks really poor. It only connects to the body between the shoulderblades and the wings aren't thin enough/tapered to a thin edge along the top. They also don't carry the appearance of being different segments due to everything on the wings being in the same plane. Lack of attention to detail. Also has clipping issues with the arms sometimes due to not being angled more backwards.
All in all this is just not in a state where it should be released, not even close. It seems like the whole costume was made as a singular entity, then split apart, which would explain a lot of things. The shoulders having visible holes in the mesh, because those areas are "supposed" to be covered by the chest piece, the back of the chest piece is "supposed" to be covered by the wings so that the clipping and completely untextured back is hidden from view, and so on and so forth. This costume only looks semi-decent combined with other parts of the same set, which is a shame, as the original artist intended it to have much more versatility in the individual parts.
There are meshy polygon triangle and square things all over the costume, which looks like a lack of smoothing i think? I'm not entirely into the 3d modelling lingo, but I'm trying my best. The hands, bicep part of the arm armor, and the helmet barely have any distinctive shape to associate them with the costume. They look like the 3d equivalent of a very rough sketch. They are just not done. The whole thing doesn't look done.
So far it looks as if it will join the urban anime and scientist costumes for a 3/3 streak of rushed, unfinished costumes. Again, no wonder they sell less than the keys when the lockbox ones look infinitely better. Why couldn't those artists work on the store costumes as well? It just seems like such a massive gap in quality between them, and in my opinion it seems a bit shady that you can only get the good-looking, polished sets from boxes these days.
I own every costume in the store apart from the scientist, and a few tights tights, and this costume will likely join them. God damn. And I was so excited too.
I'm sorry if this seems like nitpicking or me being overly harsh, but it's because I want good, finished, polished costumes. Costumes that do their concept art justice. New costumes have kept me coming back to this game for years, tweaking my characters or creating new ones, but when the quality is just so low that they're not worth buying, well, that's a damn shame.
Also sorry for the wall of text :biggrin:
It also has this strange idea with too much detailing in another area creating a strange "beak" around mouth and between eyes, which actually makes it far less elegant in look than having a featureless faceplate framed by eyebrows, cheeks and mouth.
You are also right about "ears" being too big. Overall head looks very crude. Original intent was to have something more subtle and lifelike. Like a cybernetic equivalent of CO organic noseless alien head. As it is now CO has crude robotic heads in abundance, so there's not a big need for one more.
Oh, but if you are asking about eyebags, I think that the head is simply unfinished. Because it looks more like eye sockets are in the wrong place and eyes are hovering close to them.
A very informative post overall. Especially this part about faces being set to flat shading, thus producing a lot of triangles everywhere.
But it all looks more and more like this set is just only partially finished, and months from actual release. Shouldn't be probably put on PTS so fast.
It's like set is still in the work and someone requested it to be put on the PTS ASAP, so it was hastily wrapped together and ported.
The dev team has nothing to work with? Define 'nothing', because where I come from we speak English and this word has a different meaning than what you're implying. The wealth of feedback on these very forums is overall ignored. Past sales of overwhelmingly popular costume sets is overall ignored. Years of experience working on these costumes with the players showing what they can do, even with a little 'clipping' is overall ignored. If they have 'nothing to work with', that's because they're choosing to ignore the tools.
Meeda is disappointed? He's the MOST disappointed and has every right to be. EVERYONE is disappointed here. Hell, I wanted new weapons if nothing else, and that was a MAJOR selling point that secured my vote for this one. But the majority of what made this concept good has been thrown out. I can clearly see that Meeda wasn't just making a 'Transformer costume'. If you go back and look at those parts- it was entirely possible to use a LOT of those parts for other types of character concepts as well. Now, it's limited to its singular comical set.
Would I rather have 'nothing than something'? What planet do you live on? Is Cryptic a business, or an abusive parent to you? Do you go order a burger, get a raw slab of meat with stale buns, and say 'well, it is better than nothing'. NO, because you are a paying customer and the person making the burger is a business. You fanboys need to get this notion out of your head that Cryptic is your play-pals. Allow me to educate you:
Cryptic's devs seem to be all right guys. They're probably great people. I enjoy interacting with them. However, for matters involving these costume sets- they are a business and I am a paying customer. They are not earning any charity bucks from me just for trying. Sorry, that's not how it works. I don't make enough money to support someone just because I want to be nice. This costume will likely be $10.00. That's enough to make dinner for a week, if I'm careful. That's gas money to get to work. That will replace parts on my truck that are wearing out.
Feel free to throw your money at this costume set if you personally like it. However, if you are spending money just because you feel bad for the devs or you think it 'supports the game', you are part of the problem. Dishonest financial support and false positive feedback does not improve the game. Sometimes, the Devs need that negative lashing. It improves the product, because while a person needs to know what he does that is well-received- he also needs to know what was not. It gives him a ground to work within to see how to maximize his financial gain.
Fixing this is not a 'miracle'. I propose the following options-
-Put this back on the drawing board and focus on the Steel Arachnid costume set. Come back to this one later, perhaps have it working in the background a little at a time between other sets.
-Go ahead and release this, but release it as 'mark 1'. Add other sets with more diversity [and better quality] as 'Mark 2' and 'Mark 3'.
-Just delay the release until this is improved.