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FC.31.20131024.1 PTS Update
lordgar
Posts: 267 Arc User
This build is scheduled to hit PTS this evening, 10/24/2013
Release Notes:
Preview:
Powers:
Veteran Rewards:
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go elsewhere.
In particular, do not report bugs from the live game in this thread, unless they are impacted by changes in the PTS build.
Release Notes:
Preview:
- Rampage: Fire And Ice - We're turning on this 10-player queue on PTS to take stock and collect feedback before we begin tuning it for release. Stop contest-winning villains Kenina Blaze and Frosticus (formerly known as Freon II) from wrecking the city!
- This is unfinished work with placeholders for loot, cutscenes, and supporting text. We're mainly looking for feedback on the fight itself.
- Thank you for your feedback on the Takofanes II Lockbox! As we move out of the testing phase for this box, we're removing Cosmic Keys from the Debugger's Store on PTS. They'll return for future tests. Items from the box will remain in the Debugger's Store until after the box goes live.
- Added an upcoming VTOL vehicle to the Debugger's store.
Powers:
- Evasive Maneuvers: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 13/16/19% (down from 15/18/22%)
- Night Warrior: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 8/12/16% (down from 10/15/20%)
- Way of the Warrior: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 12/16/20% (down from 15/20/25%)
- Lightning Reflexes: The Dodge Chance of this power is now 25/32.5/40% (down from 30/40/50%)
Veteran Rewards:
- Veteran Rewards now unlock immediately for Lifetime Subscribers.
Please format any bugs you find in the following format:
Bug
Where it happens
What happens
Please stay on topic in this PTS thread. We use bug reports from this thread to decide whether a PTS build is ready to go live, and so we need to make sure we're seeing everything in it. Please do discuss the changes, but if you find yourself writing about something that isn't specific to what's on PTS, then that should probably go elsewhere.
In particular, do not report bugs from the live game in this thread, unless they are impacted by changes in the PTS build.
Post edited by lordgar on
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Deliciously nutritious!
FINALLY with new rampage but onward with the main gripe i got
LR with 40% dodge @ r3? without any innate defence (last i checked)? yea..... LR is pretty much dead in the water again
Does that... does that... DOES THAT MEAN THAT IF I GO LIFETIME I WILL GET THE AVIAN WARRIOR PACK WITHOUT HAVING TO WAIT 3 FREAKING YEARS?
too bad i'm joining the army in 3 months. . .
The dodge nerfs on the dodge passives... that's a little far... >_>
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Trying to get on PTS now and my login attempts keep timing out.
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Look, if we're out to deal with the EM dodge combo problem, nerf that FIRST, not both... sheesh not everyone who has a dodge toon takes EM for the broken combo.
Heck I take it primarily for the adv to loose aggro...
Since there arn't that many aggro dumps and that the best non-magical one
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>.>
We can do math without much trouble. If you can't rely on your passive even half the time after maxing it out? No that's BS
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I believe with Justice Gear and R7 mods, one will be able to obtain nearly 68% standing dodge chance. That's completely fine. Someone with relatively mediocre gear will be able to reach 60% standing.
Math is theorycrafting. You might build like that but I personally don't. Just test it in application.
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I do offer a recommendation though. If dodge is to be nerfed this heavily, buff raw defense to increase scaling value and % mitigated. Otherwise, I forsee what some have already posted, a lot of tank builds are going to be in serious jeporady. Particularly Lightning Reflexes, Regen (have very low passive mitigation), and Personal Force Field (trouble enough keeping shields up without massive layering and still VIPER can straight bypass the shield).
Soo... You guys decided to leave the Nerf Bat in the closet for this one. So you could drop a NERF NUKE on it instead?
You nerfed it so hard that now you have to put 4 advantage points into it just to match the Rank 1 version currently on Live.
Not to mention the longer recharge time placed on it so that it's not longer possible to maintain 2 stacks.
That's a nerf of 8-10% dodge chance.
I call overkill.
On the plus side - I won't complain about getting the veteran rewards immediately on my LTS.
1. Don't forget that LR builds up dodge chance for each hit that it doesn't dodge. Even if it wouldn't be dodging more than half the time, it would, because it quickly ramps its own dodge chance quite high.
2. 40% + 10% base dodge chance = 50%.
Stop nerfing the base line then!
The optimizers will always screw up the curve.
Nerf the top ends, I mean, a hard cap or something, this is making it harder to average builds w/dodge survivable.
Thank god I don't have many dodge tanks or anything like it
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Turn back now...
Escalating Reflexes doesn't exist and the changes for LR to flat dodge that can actually benefit greatly from gear and other dodge powers as opposed to the live implementation that is dodge rating based and thus does not benefit much at all due to the DR curve will not help LR at all in actual application....
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Are you calling overkill with PvE in mind? Because if so, there is really no point in double stacking EM. Its threat wipe is more than enough, and PvE is easy as it is.
In PvP on the other hand, it becomes a problem for those who may have relied on it. But people can still use it for its mobility and stealth.
The effect they're trying to achieve is that the dodge-based passives and abilities operate about the same as they used to, while making the equipment less effective. Though, the way they decided to do this (changing the core curve, then adjusting powers) is a bit wonky, so of course there's going to be some period where the dodge stats of passives and such wildly fluctuate upwards and downwards as players cheer and cry.
Omg, omg, omg omg.... yesssssssssssssssssssss I hope this change makes it to live next week!!!!
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Oh my, please stop going on about this.
Before this change LR was giving way too much dodge, you could get to pretty much 100% dodge chance with over 80% avoidance. It was actually giving much more than before and I don't know if any of you people who are complaining have realised by LR isn't exactly underpowered. Infact if used correctly it makes you more defensive than if you had any other passive.
These changes are good and the change to EM once again will help balance massively. The funniest thing is a lot of these people, although casual, are PvE only players. This being said, how the hell is this change going to make anything harder for you?
I may go test a few things in the PTS in a bit, but by the looks of the changes this will help balance.
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Its not, it just means I've got no reason to use LR as a passive anymore.
Here we are now going to the West Side
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10% base dodge.
40% from LR.
13% from R1 EM.
I'll be nice and only give you 10% from gear.
That is 73% dodge with little to no investment. Pump EM to R3, get the best dodge mods/gear possible, Fluidity, and various other powers like Lead Tempest, and you can still get close to, or achieve, 100% dodge. You also get Escalating Reflexes and DoT resistance.
Stack it with IDF like I am sure many people will and LR will most definitely have reasons to be used.
Pretty much my thoughts well summed up when it comes to dodge.
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People keep throwing EM in there, as though all dodge builds will and must have it, and like it works all the time and doesn't trade off offense.. .hmmmm
Maybe we should nerf that instead?
Also why Fluidity? Are we now narrowing the field of build that make LR work well
Clearly this is being tuned against a min maxing build. As I thought
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
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Watching out for a sunny day
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At what point would you stop calling it min/maxing?
I only gave all of those examples to show that it can probably become the best defensive passive if you heavily invest in it.
With gear and R3 LR alone you will be able to reach something like 67% dodge. How is that not enough?
Look, I didn't want it nerfed at all.
I mean if the additional things like EM and gear were what makes it possible to over clock dodge, nerf that first. Leave the base passive be..
And who are these 'member of the community' they are listening to?
The secret council of min maxers?
Ah well, I don't really give to poops anymore.
Here we are now going to the West Side
Weapons in hand as we go for a ride
Some may come and some may stay
Watching out for a sunny day
Where there's love and darkness and my sidearm
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Really wish people would put in the 5-10 minutes it takes to test stuff instead of fearmongering for no reason. Because half the complaints that I know to be untrue look downright silly at this point. Some of you are getting all worked up for no reason, no reason at all...and you'd know this quickly if you simply tested the stuff.
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LR isn't dead I don't see why people are complaining.
Night Warrior and WotW are ****ed otherwise. for those who do math, NW has 26% base r3 and WotW now has 30% base, r3.
Add heroic dodge gear? congrats, thanks to the rating nerf, you get a grand total of 9%, good job, you now have 35% for NW, and 39% for WotW. Two of the few remaining decent offensive passives are now ****, just like all the other offensive passives. GG.
EDIT: this was not including the EM changes, since most people who took a dodge passive took EM, which has had both a CD increase and a dodge chance nerf of about 4-5%...lets see here... on live NW is ~45% and WotW is ~50% with heroic gear and EM was a 17% bonus r1....lose 4-5%...carry the 2....so you get.....the total loss between 14-15% with EM, approximately guesstimating.
Reminds me, I only have about 30 of them up, need to put up the remaining ones soon to be consistent.
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My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
How much avoidance are you considering? From what I've seen of the changes (I was away during the first few rounds of testing) avoidance is getting hit as well.
Say you have 69% dodge and 70% avoidance(I'd say this is a lot of avoidance, what do you think is reasonable to achieve), that's an average of 48.3% reduction in damage over the life of a character. That's also a strong chance of getting bent over by Gravitar with a very unpleasant Force Cascade.
I don't forsee this ending well, and hope they activate a few events while testing to see how this effects the ability to defeat enemies like Teleiosaurus, Mega-D's, Gravitar, and now the new fire and ice rampage they're adding.
I think this is going to be ugly, to say the least, for melee damage role characters.
Also I can't get on test to look, Quarry got hit on survivablility, but did they up the damage buff to account for that? Quarry has about 80% the damage buff that other offensive passives have, to account for it being more survivable on average. Now that that's not really the case, is the offensive part getting boosted?
I really don't see this ending well.
However if the change must be done, please consider putting the passives back where they were (Including Quarry), and making the Tank and Melee Damage roles not effected by the changes. Hybrid, Support, and Ranged Damage would get the proposed scaling levels. Losing the instant 30%/50% Dodge avoid starting point with gear would be a strong enough hit.
So, what you're saying is that they now give similar defensive benefits to the other Offensive Passives?
That Dork In The Suspenders, signing out.
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I really can't argue this, but then I can say you can build an effective tank without even taking a passive, thanks to the way this system is. The point I was trying to point out is that defense is a hundred times more valuable in a passive than the raw damage bonuses. Offensive passive damage bonuses are worth very little. The real benefit of an offensive passive is the defensive benefit, other secondary benefits (Audacity on Quarry), and access to the offensive damage roles, which is where you get your actual damage boost.
This is exactly why Quarry and Night Warrior were so valuable as offensive passives. Quarry gave insane amounts of dodge, and a great synergy with INT which further boosted your INT and Ego. Night Warrior had the entire stealth mechanic, defensive penetration (an actual damage boost that was worth getting) and even having a Haste buff.
This is also why defensive passives are so valuable, because defense is worth a whole lot more, isn't additionally DRd beyond its set math, and since damage bonuses hit that DR so easily, Damage is easy to match without the offensive roles (Would you believe me if I told you that I had a friend who ran hybrid and got more DPS (and better hits overall) from Defiance instead of WotW?)
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Not exactly. In a way its worse due to the nature of dodge, but the defense itself is stronger than normal resistances....but honestly, with the way offense is I don't think defenses being lowered on offensive passives are a very good idea, unless they plan on actually being consistent and fix the problems that ALL offensive passives have.
From what I remember, LR was able to reach 80% avoidance without even trying before any nerfs. It is most likely still in the ~70% range or higher if you try to boost it any more considering I can still hit over 60% avoid on WotW. I believe anything over 60% avoidance is more than enough, so LR's avoidance definitely puts it in line in my opinion. If others still have problems with it then oh well.
I do not believe Quarry's damage boost was adjusted to "make up" for its hit to dodge. If you ask me, I'd suggest removing the Fair Game advantage and just making it part of Quarry itself if you want to keep it as a more balanced offensive passive.
And I say that even if the actual testing reflects the woes everybody is posting in response to numbers.
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To your first point, unless one is too lazy to obtain a heroic breastplate or an equivalent dodge boosting item, LR will reach that 60% dodge point.
I used LR "back then," and I need to disagree with you when you say that people dropped like flies. Lightning Reflexes was an amazing passive, and I believe it still is. As long as you were not hit with a barrage of quick attacks, you were fine. Even when that did happen, you had Escalating Reflexes and heals to keep you up. Heck, blocking on its own can help enough to keep most people alive.
Heroic Gear can be obtained for free if you put the few days' work to get them. Zero G's spent, done deal. You can even use blue gear to get around 60% dodge with LR.
We're not even factoring in Fluidity or spec trees for extra dodge.
Suppose one does not want to take Fluidity, EM, Thundering Kicks, or any other powers besides LR that boost dodge (and I honestly do not know why someone at least would not take Masterful Dodge if they pick LR for theme - MD alone is enough to survive Gravi's yellow bubbles on defensive builds). They can still achieve 60% dodge without much effort through gear and specs. If they farm for better gear, they can go well above that.
If someone is still not satisfied with LR's performance after they actually try it out, then they will have to deal with putting effort into something to get it to work. Invulnerability and Defiance will be for easy direct defense while Lightning Reflexes will be for those who would like to build around there passive to become nearly invincible.