PWE cannot order Cryptic to shutdown CO. Cryptic owns the intellectual property and thus owns the entirety of the game itself. If there is any neglect of CO, it is strictly due to Cryptic. PWE has nothing to do with it.
Come now - clearly PWE holds the purse strings - Cryptic is a kept man in this relationship and doesn't call the shots anymore from the top.
Thank you for the answers. This Ask Cryptic told us exactly what we needed to know about the state of development on CO and what we can expect in the future.
Nothing! \o/
I also must share this:
My brother was reading the Ask Cryptic along with me and has decided that he is *not* going to play Neverwinter Online (He's in the beta, non-founder's) out of fear that the player base there is going to be treated like the player base here.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Wow... I find this question/answer thing very dissatisfying.
Nobody got to any of the really important issues, or they were excluded; there are a lot of them. I wish I would've replied that day like I wanted to but I went and did other things.
If you have to nerf your own vehicle design just because you don't want to bog things down, then that means you need to upgrade your infrastructure in part, at least. This isn't 2009.
I wish I had asked why you never tell us when you can work on this game more often and about when a lot of the bugs that need to be fixed will be worked on. Cryptic needs to be more forthcoming, especially because the sum total of all the changes they made to this game are unsatisfactory.
My brother was reading the Ask Cryptic along with me and has decided that he is *not* going to play Neverwinter Online (He's in the beta, non-founder's) out of fear that the player base there is going to be treated like the player base here.
Your brother need not worry. If STO is any indication, it's CO only that's the black sheep :P
PWE cannot order Cryptic to shutdown CO. Cryptic owns the intellectual property and thus owns the entirety of the game itself. If there is any neglect of CO, it is strictly due to Cryptic. PWE has nothing to do with it.
Bzzt! Cryptic Studios is WHOLLY OWNED by Perfect World.
PWE: Jump
Cryptic: (Five feet up in the air) Uh. Which direction?
To everyone saying that the code isn't the same, they should know that for every small or large code update in any of the 3 games, every game has to be updated, whatever or not they receive something from the update, so all the code is there, full on every Cryptic game, it just needs to be hooked up and made available.
And you know this how?
Outside of a couple shared systems (the online store, chat, etc), there can be major differences in back-end code and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
"Nemesis Updates
- Open mission OR in-world dynamic encounters w/ your Nemesis
- More minion types and options for standard Nemesis content"
From the Ask Cryptic Questions:
Will the nemesis creator be updated with the Earth and Wind Power sets?
"We?re not currently planning to expand the Nemesis Creator."
I really wish they'd remove that Until Report because it had so many promises that they failed to keep. Especially with the nemesis system. It's a great addition that further gives more customization to the game. And for them to say that they'd be updating it and just so happen to change their mind kinda...sucks.
I've been playing the game for 2 years now because I love it. I can't find another game like it and I have made alot of friends here. (Its so easy compared to many other MMOs) I want to see Champions thrive. It has the potential to be THE superhero game. But I now see why people are so afraid that the game will end up like CoX. It's been months since we got new costumes and travel powers. When's the last time we got a new powerset? Or new additions to existing ones? It just feels like CO is an afterthought.
To be honest the only time i log in is to play with the costume creator which is the bane of this game, playing missions? sometimes, alerts? to bump up a bit, pvp? your having a laugh right? the community or most of it in pvp is a right joke, elitist idiots who are level 40 try to fight you at level 6.
Forget about that though, apart from the devs hiding behind pictures of food or memes these days trying to "connect" with some of the player base in order to have some kind of defence, this game is not going anywhere in terms of production, you know if they were just honest with their plans, i don't want to know everything because sometimes finding it is fun, but really just give us a straight forward answer, more lockerboxes and vehicles? pushing the real player base away with this B.S seriously.
Since vehicles launched i have not bought or tried to claim one at all, i think it's good as an addition to the game, but it's all the devs ever think about, it's all they ever release now days.
I admit i enjoyed the lemurian invasion mission fighting the bleak harbinger, that was awesome and not too bad actually, i didn't die once.
As for Auras, well that's a start, but your still a million miles away from city of heroes, they had this a while back, and they are still shut down now!
I agree with @Mother's Love you have intentionally ignored most if not all the questions asked, you act like nothing is a bother and you think you can do this and take peoples money.
There are new games coming out, new MMO's super hero ones, aren't you all glad?
Why?
Not because you can play them, but because once there is competition in the super hero genre but PWE will buck up their ideas to improve this game, but by then it will already be too late.
The internetz is one crazy place! tread carefully!
"Nemesis Updates
- Open mission OR in-world dynamic encounters w/ your Nemesis
- More minion types and options for standard Nemesis content"
From the Ask Cryptic Questions:
Will the nemesis creator be updated with the Earth and Wind Power sets?
"We?re not currently planning to expand the Nemesis Creator."
I really wish they'd remove that Until Report because it had so many promises that they failed to keep. Especially with the nemesis system. It's a great addition that further gives more customization to the game. And for them to say that they'd be updating it and just so happen to change their mind kinda...sucks.
I've been playing the game for 2 years now because I love it. I can't find another game like it and I have made alot of friends here. (Its so easy compared to many other MMOs) I want to see Champions thrive. It has the potential to be THE superhero game. But I now see why people are so afraid that the game will end up like CoX. It's been months since we got new costumes and travel powers. When's the last time we got a new powerset? Or new additions to existing ones? It just feels like CO is an afterthought.
I'd really like them to FIX the Nemesis creator. You know, so you can once again see examples of the minions you're selecting - and have the loading of a saved costume actually alter the default yellow and blue preview of your nemesis.
I have a feeling if I asked my questions they wouldn't be responded to just because of how aggressively I'd make them sound, like "WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO FIX EVERYTHING? >:C"
I have a feeling if I asked my questions they wouldn't be responded to just because of how aggressively I'd make them sound, like "WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO FIX EVERYTHING? >:C"
Using flowers and chocolate gives same result.
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Outside of a couple shared systems (the online store, chat, etc), there can be major differences in back-end code and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
Im not the person you were responding to, but the whole CO/STO/NWN (now) was a code system Cryptic created to show that they could stand up MMO's in short time and share servers. The power system of each game is clearly shared (STO sometimes shows power bugs that are common between games, bet you NWN does the same). Once you play them for a short time (I play CO and STO both since their respective launches) it's clear they are joined at the hip to the same underlying engine. One key indicator is that *every* maintenance patch is downtime in both games. There is simply no reason for this if they are not closely bound, as server maintenance alone would be the only other reason for this.
The one upside to all this is that it may mean CO lives on considerably longer than it's player population alone and development would indicate - STO/NWN may "carry" the game along since if there are server resources underutilized CO may be expected to fill the gap and provide modest income. The problem IMNSHO is that comics folks are by and large loyal to an IP; DCUO and Marvel (which CO originally was) draw folks no matter what the quality of the game is; CO must depend on a name and IP that virtually no one outside of older, hardcore PNP players is aware of. New players see Defender and are like "wut"?
If Marvel would "takeover" CO and infuse it with their content (which will never in a million years happen), it would likely take off in a hearbeat albeit with clone-madness to contend with. At one point the plan was for CO/STO/ and now NWN (it was some other weird game in the beginning - think Monster Island meets Cthulhu) to be part of a gaming portal subscription - with them being the first MMO's to have subscriptions through the X-Box, but Microsoft/Marvel's parting killed all that and Cryptic got left holding the bag.
Honestly, everyone who is upset has themselves to blame. Why anyone would expect anything other than what we got baffles me.
We all know the score, but in case it's not clear yet, Ima try and simplify it -
Cryptic is not here to please us, Cryptic is here to make money, then please us.
"but they should please the players blah blah blah!!!!!" you say!
And I agree!!! Completely!!! But sadly, that is not the case.
So, we have options.
ONE:
Get all pissy about it, swear we're going to pack up our toys and go home, then 3 years from now keep throwing the same pants-soiling tantrum, or
TWO:
Accept the status, and work within the limitations we have. If Cryptic needs to make money before they can please us, then we have to either figure out a way for them to make money, or be displeased and let it burn.
Personally, I love CO too much to let it burn, so I'd like to suck it up, wipe off my poo, and make Cryptic some money so they can get back to making me happy.
Well, Pion, there was a Z-Store item proposal thread that seemed to just fall off, but it was filled with things people would happily pay good money for. Trailturtle even posted in it a few times!
Which is exactly as bad as enduring the beatings silently, without even the threat of leaving, because "maybe you can help them through it", and because sometimes CO takes you out to dinner. You do not have the high ground Obi-Wan.
Honestly, everyone who is upset has themselves to blame. Why anyone would expect anything other than what we got baffles me.
We all know the score, but in case it's not clear yet, Ima try and simplify it -
Cryptic is not here to please us, Cryptic is here to make money, then please us.
"but they should please the players blah blah blah!!!!!" you say!
And I agree!!! Completely!!! But sadly, that is not the case.
So, we have options.
ONE:
Get all pissy about it, swear we're going to pack up our toys and go home, then 3 years from now keep throwing the same pants-soiling tantrum, or
TWO:
Accept the status, and work within the limitations we have. If Cryptic needs to make money before they can please us, then we have to either figure out a way for them to make money, or be displeased and let it burn.
Personally, I love CO too much to let it burn, so I'd like to suck it up, wipe off my poo, and make Cryptic some money so they can get back to making me happy.
HOOZ WIF MEH!?!?!?
Unrelated - Happy Pi day everyone!!!!
I agree but only if they stop making promises they can't keep, if they actually listen to the gamers first too, but if a large group of people are not happy, then change is needed, remember it's not the company that makes the game, it's the community that help make the game, and by that i mean who stays loyal to it because they are made happy, i'm not going to go to my local coffee shop for 10 years because i want them to make money do i? i go there because it has the best coffee to me, better than starbucks, and because they strive to make the customers happy, that's dedication for you, that's what companies should be doing, this is why i like The Phoenix Project, they actually want the community ideas even placing a community member in the game!
They release content for us to see everyday and when the game releases it will change the way we have been treated by developers in the past, make us see what we are worth, not just a content here and a costume bug there.
I get that a lot of us are whiners and are throwing our toys out the pram, but if we don't are just letting slide poor game issues and pathetic work in the future?
You have to realize, we deserve better, whether we throw a tantrum now or in the next 5 years, we deserve better, that is the ultimate problem here.
The internetz is one crazy place! tread carefully!
Personally, I love CO too much to let it burn, so I'd like to suck it up, wipe off my poo, and make Cryptic some money so they can get back to making me happy.
There is no guarantee it would benefit Champions-Online Pion.
Certainly learning from the game's history and how the one-thousand percent jump in revenue generated from the F2P relaunch was not re-invested back - I wonder which project all that revenue went to? - I wonder!?.
No, the Studio's cack-handed juggling of multiple titles and their disproportionate allocation of devs to each title is horribly broken and cannot be justified (although I would love to hear their explanation). This issue definately needs to be sorted first.
I would love to support Champions-Online more, I would love to see it grow into all it could be - but I'll be damned if I am going to spend money here only to see the revenue generated diverted elsewhere and zero-growth on this my title of choice.
..........................................
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
No plans for Nemesis or ANY improvements to existing content/features
No news on how they plan to address the Chat Bann issue or even a mention of it (guess I should start spamming the NWO forums with warnings to RPers that they should expect to get banned from their preferred activity there)
And everything else is a bunch of "we're taking it into consideration [but no plans yet]" and "Soon?" answers.
...In other words, Ask Cryptic as usual (not that I was expecting more than that, but... meh).
Cryptic is not here to please us, Cryptic is here to make money, then please us.
"but they should please the players blah blah blah!!!!!" you say!
And I agree!!! Completely!!! But sadly, that is not the case.
I'd also like to add that the part above is especially bad. Pleasing us and making money aren't things that are mutually exclusive. Cryptic needs to please the playerbase to make their money. Surely it's obvious that if their customers are displeased with the product, it's likely to affect the revenue generated by said product?
So no, they don't need to please us out of some magnanimous sense of goodwill, but it's absolutely within their best interests to keep us happy. Threatening to pick up your ball and go home isn't effective since often those players never leave, and Cryptic keeps getting their money. However, keeping your mouth shut and just dealing is exactly as effective. "Letting it burn" isn't really a viable option unless you just don't give a s*** about playing anyway.
The best case scenario is to voice your concerns and hope the company listens well enough.
Give CO a little time. Not because I'm expecting a miracle from them, mind you. I've tried the Neverwinter beta and I can honestly tell you that I don't see this game going anywhere any time soon. It's not that impressive, to be perfectly honest. Overall this is a game that gives you like 4 options as your starting class, and if you think that'll last you're crazy. Once people realize how lame of an endeavor it is, they'll have devs back where they belong.
I've given them little time quite a few times allready. And i can give it a little more, i just don't think anything changes. Someone would actually think that if they had something actually under works, they would gladly tell it to us. Oh yea, they did tell us what they are working on. Or not working on.
It's gonna be a quiet year 2013.
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I was incredibly disappointed to hear there is no plans to expand the Nemesis Creator. Nemesis is one of the most unique things in the game, and is most uniquely "comic book" and to top it all off, one of the things that alot of people have been asking for work on.
This is a major bummer.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
So, the Lemurian Invasion is part 1 or 2 of a larger arc... intriguing.
However, I was terribly disappointed by your non-answer about the Foundry. Does CO not in fact share a code base with STO and NWO? If it does, then the question of Foundry should be a matter of when, not if. I'd really like the chance to try inserting the stories in my head into the game...
Also looking forward to ground vehicles. The Hawkwing works for Blackwing - the whole "wing" motif, after all - but Spider-Bat could really use a Spiderbatmobile or a ground bike or something. (I could also use a Copperhead for Farhunter - it even matches his color scheme! - but I'm both philosophically and financially opposed to lockboxes.)
I believe the NWO foundry is a new version and not a direct copy of the STO one. I think we stand a better chance of getting it once NWO is out and the bugs are taken cared of, even with an actual Dev team I wouldn't count on a foundry this year. Earliest would be 1st Quarter 2014...course that is just a guess on my part. I do want to believe they know we want it and are willing to try to get it for us, when they can.
I do appreciate communication and honest answers. They may not be to our liking, but they are here and I do prefer an uneasy truth over the nicest lie.
I'm also a bit sad because of the neglect for the Nemesis system which is for many players the main selling point of this game - and a one true original trait of Champions Online.
It appears that nothing more can be done, for now.
Im not the person you were responding to, but the whole CO/STO/NWN (now) was a code system Cryptic created to show that they could stand up MMO's in short time and share servers. The power system of each game is clearly shared (STO sometimes shows power bugs that are common between games, bet you NWN does the same). Once you play them for a short time (I play CO and STO both since their respective launches) it's clear they are joined at the hip to the same underlying engine. One key indicator is that *every* maintenance patch is downtime in both games. There is simply no reason for this if they are not closely bound, as server maintenance alone would be the only other reason for this.
Again. Simply because they share the same historical codebase doesn't mean that all changes do (or can) roll back to the earlier properties.
If Marvel would "takeover" CO and infuse it with their content (which will never in a million years happen), it would likely take off in a hearbeat albeit with clone-madness to contend with. At one point the plan was for CO/STO/ and now NWN (it was some other weird game in the beginning - think Monster Island meets Cthulhu) to be part of a gaming portal subscription - with them being the first MMO's to have subscriptions through the X-Box, but Microsoft/Marvel's parting killed all that and Cryptic got left holding the bag.
If Marvel took over we'd see it morphed into a bastard of CO and the Marvel Heroes MMO.
I, personally, don't want to be "Wolverine73293410"
The thing is, Cryptic (and by extension PWE) pretty much HAVE to keep CO going themselves. The rights for the Champions IP reverts otherwise.
Honestly, everyone who is upset has themselves to blame. Why anyone would expect anything other than what we got baffles me.
We all know the score, but in case it's not clear yet, Ima try and simplify it -
Cryptic is not here to please us, Cryptic is here to make money, then please us.
"but they should please the players blah blah blah!!!!!" you say!
And I agree!!! Completely!!! But sadly, that is not the case.
So, we have options.
ONE:
Get all pissy about it, swear we're going to pack up our toys and go home, then 3 years from now keep throwing the same pants-soiling tantrum, or
TWO:
Accept the status, and work within the limitations we have. If Cryptic needs to make money before they can please us, then we have to either figure out a way for them to make money, or be displeased and let it burn.
Personally, I love CO too much to let it burn, so I'd like to suck it up, wipe off my poo, and make Cryptic some money so they can get back to making me happy.
HOOZ WIF MEH!?!?!?
Unrelated - Happy Pi day everyone!!!!
I will say this.
If Cryptic ceases putting out content that makes players want to spend money, how is it the players' fault?
If Cryptic (and its publisher-du-jour) continually make stupid decisions that chase away players and are nothing more than outright crash-grabs with no actual VALUE behind it, how is it the players' fault?
The long and short of it is this:
Champions Online is in this vile predicament because Cryptic can BUILD a decent MMO, but can't GROW or MAINTAIN one to save their asses (save by accident).
Again. Simply because they share the same historical codebase doesn't mean that all changes do (or can) roll back to the earlier properties.
If Marvel took over we'd see it morphed into a bastard of CO and the Marvel Heroes MMO.
I, personally, don't want to be "Wolverine73293410"
The thing is, Cryptic (and by extension PWE) pretty much HAVE to keep CO going themselves. The rights for the Champions IP reverts otherwise.
I don't see how the rights would revert when they(Cryptic) own it lock, stock and barrel. The only Champs-related thing they don't own is Steve Long's personal character. Perhaps you're thinking of licensing?
Give CO a little time. Not because I'm expecting a miracle from them, mind you. I've tried the Neverwinter beta and I can honestly tell you that I don't see this game going anywhere any time soon. It's not that impressive, to be perfectly honest. Overall this is a game that gives you like 4 options as your starting class, and if you think that'll last you're crazy. Once people realize how lame of an endeavor it is, they'll have devs back where they belong.
Ah. The eternal refrain. "Give them time! Give them time!"
They've had OVER FOUR YEARS (the ignorance and idiocy with CO started back in alpha). Pretty much reeling from one bungled debacle to the next.
Hell, they've basically IGNORED the game for a YEAR by pulling all the devs off for NWN instead of hiring more devs to make the NWN schedule up and allow CO to continue to grow.
What've we gotten out of it in that time?
A bunch of broken almost-events that were quickly yanked and yet another that was pushed out half-finished and badly implemented with the Live crowd serving as beta testers.
But hey! Maybe I'll buy a few thousand in lockbox keys and a couple vehicles right?
WRONG!
This game and the Cryptic customers paying to play it deserve far better than the crap sandwich they've been served up.
I don't see how the rights would revert when they(Cryptic) own it lock, stock and barrel. The only Champs-related thing they don't own is Steve Long's personal character. Perhaps you're thinking of licensing?
Nope. CO ceases (or transfers outside of Cryptic's (or whoever owns them) and the rights revert.
Question: Do you, or does anyone you know look at this game's code and the code of STO and/or NW?
This is the point I'm trying to pound into the heads of the people who're talking (from a certain orifice other than their mouth) "authoritatively" about how "easy" it would be to backport something implemented in one of CO's successor products back into CO.
I'm saying that, simply because the same (or evolutionary increments of) skeleton of code was used for each of these products doesn't mean that backporting is easy.
Is it POSSIBLE? Sure!
How much is it going to cost? The programming needed to alter the game, and the new art assets required for the interfaces aren't going to be freebies.
What's it going to break?
How much is it going to cost to fix THAT?
I'm saying that the issue is a LOT more complex than a simple yes/no question.
This is the point I'm trying to pound into the heads of the people who're talking (from a certain orifice other than their mouth) "authoritatively" about how "easy" it would be to backport something implemented in one of CO's successor products back into CO.
I'm saying that, simply because the same (or evolutionary increments of) skeleton of code was used for each of these products doesn't mean that backporting is easy.
Is it POSSIBLE? Sure!
How much is it going to cost? The programming needed to alter the game, and the new art assets required for the interfaces aren't going to be freebies.
What's it going to break?
How much is it going to cost to fix THAT?
I'm saying that the issue is a LOT more complex than a simple yes/no question.
You replied to me in a rather lengthy manner but you didn't address the question you quoted.
Not sure why they'd plan to take another look at something which was looked at then ripped off the PTS, with no explanation...all that needed doing was damage numbers, FX and boom, you have Telepathy. Oh well, I can take consolation (I think) in the fact that mentioning telepathy almost everywhere and jaybezz constantly mentioning it..they haven't forgotten...
*looks at Mentella*
Me: Sorry, but it looks like you'll be in those psychic supression bonds alot longer than previously imagined...I am so very sorry.
Mentella: *scowls violently, voice laced with venom* You don't even WANT to know what I'd do if these restraints weren't so damn heavy.
Me: *smiles* Don't worry you'll be out of those restraints...SOON LOL!
Mentella: Genius...pure genius... *facepalms*
PSI Initiate: Here's another pot of fresh peppermint tea you two...
Mind Slayer: Well I'm off, gotta go run some errands for Psimon, you two want anything?
Mentella: Yes, I'd love my powers turned back on...
Mind Slayer: *sighs* I can't help you there I'm afraid, just sit tight for the moment...6 months and counting right?
Naw, naw, see here, we normally sell our Hawkwings for 10000 Zen, but we're sellin' 'em to ya for the low low low price of howevermanykeysittakestogetone, or you can take one of our premium used jets armed with confetti and bagpipes for the low, low price of way too much!
Again. Simply because they share the same historical codebase doesn't mean that all changes do (or can) roll back to the earlier properties.
Sorry, I do not believe CO is just an earlier version of code that lives on the same servers as STO/NWN, I am convinced that they share an underlying application base through libraries and active processes that sits on the OS because every patch/maintenance and some times even new power effects result in expression within the other.
Divergence in the two games happens at a higher level and through what data is then referenced. Unless Cryptic makes it public we are both guessing, but I think the preponderance of what was revealed early on about the coding for multiple games at one time plus observable patterns in game indicate they are ride upon some common code base and even live processes at the hip
I'm saying that, simply because the same (or evolutionary increments of) skeleton of code was used for each of these products doesn't mean that backporting is easy.
Is it POSSIBLE? Sure!
How much is it going to cost? The programming needed to alter the game, and the new art assets required for the interfaces aren't going to be freebies.
My theory: They can't upgrade the engine without giving us Foundry, because the new versions of the engine require all of CO's art assets to be indexed and cataloged. That's what we've been told is the largest obstacle to Foundry on CO. If they did the indexing, they'd have 90% of Foundry support done anyway. (And yes, as a software developer myself, I'm well aware of the 90/90 Rule. :biggrin:)
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
It wasn't too long ago that Cryptic took STO and CO down for maintenance to bring CO "in line" with the updated engine and code of STO which is why I bother to ask anyone saying "the game's codes may not be that similar" if they have looked at the code or know anyone who has because they are directly contradicting what I've seen myself and some of what the devs have truthfully stated (and not everything has been truthfully stated). I know several people who have dug into the games, including some who were in my apartment to show me some of what they were talking about. It's a surprise to no one when those questions get talked around rather than answered with a simple yes or no.
The code in the games is less different than people who have never seen the guts are led to believe which is why some things that aren't official in one game can be done anyway by executing the command from the other game...
Some of the things that "can't be done" are already in the game to varying degrees including some that are already complete...
Some of the things that they have to test for "feasibility" already work...
Some of the things they have stated will take a long time and a large amount of dev hours to fix I've personally watch get fixed in a span of minutes by a single person, some by two people...
Some of the bugs they "can't fix" have been fixed by people with no professional experience with the game...some of these fixes have been brought directly to their attention....still not in the game officially by the way...
And there's more but I'm not trying to stir a **** storm by going into detail about everything on this topic.
Like I said before. People are upset that the Ask Cryptic didn't tell them certain things. On the contrary, it really told us everything we need to know.
Not sure why they'd plan to take another look at something which was looked at then ripped off the PTS, with no explanation...all that needed doing was damage numbers, FX and boom, you have Telepathy. Oh well, I can take consolation (I think) in the fact that mentioning telepathy almost everywhere and jaybezz constantly mentioning it..they haven't forgotten...
*looks at Mentella*
Me: Sorry, but it looks like you'll be in those psychic supression bonds alot longer than previously imagined...I am so very sorry.
Mentella: *scowls violently, voice laced with venom* You don't even WANT to know what I'd do if these restraints weren't so damn heavy.
Me: *smiles* Don't worry you'll be out of those restraints...SOON LOL!
Mentella: Genius...pure genius... *facepalms*
PSI Initiate: Here's another pot of fresh peppermint tea you two...
Mind Slayer: Well I'm off, gotta go run some errands for Psimon, you two want anything?
Mentella: Yes, I'd love my powers turned back on...
Mind Slayer: *sighs* I can't help you there I'm afraid, just sit tight for the moment...6 months and counting right?
Q_Q
Is it messed that that sometimes I create oddball scenarios just like this in my head too?
But on a serious note after reading over the answers and having pretty mixed feelings over it I've come to a conclusion: Cryptic is heavily distracted.
Oh sure we have a dev team(barely) but they can only do so much as their time is clearly spread out.
I instantly noticed that the number one quesiton myself alot of other people have been asking and pounding into the mindset of Cryptic time and time again was the hopeful addressing of the pressing issue that quite frankly they have been really lacking in communication. Right now Trailturtle seems to be one of the few constantly giving us any new information at all and he is a trooper in doing so . My hat tip to you sir.
But it's not enough y'all. We need to hear on at least a biweekly basis from a full fledge team and not this skeleton crew most of us highly suspect(and are probably right) that's doing all they can to keep the ship together. We already are aware of some of the former paragon folks put on staff and being placed in sto and I understand they all have been given obligations or have time constraints, but quite frankly I think I speak for alot of us when I say right now we seriously need a team just like that if not better.
This is starting to become a repeat of back in the late period of 09 up until early 2010 when Cryptic basically didn't even say jack squat to the community for a good while until it was almost too late. Now all of us really don't want another repeat of that but it is starting to look that way and it will cause a rift. Heck it already has started and its getting deeper.
Comments
It'd be great if that "fix" could be undone so that the character above is no longer rendered uneditable.
Come now - clearly PWE holds the purse strings - Cryptic is a kept man in this relationship and doesn't call the shots anymore from the top.
Nothing! \o/
I also must share this:
My brother was reading the Ask Cryptic along with me and has decided that he is *not* going to play Neverwinter Online (He's in the beta, non-founder's) out of fear that the player base there is going to be treated like the player base here.
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
Nobody got to any of the really important issues, or they were excluded; there are a lot of them. I wish I would've replied that day like I wanted to but I went and did other things.
If you have to nerf your own vehicle design just because you don't want to bog things down, then that means you need to upgrade your infrastructure in part, at least. This isn't 2009.
I wish I had asked why you never tell us when you can work on this game more often and about when a lot of the bugs that need to be fixed will be worked on. Cryptic needs to be more forthcoming, especially because the sum total of all the changes they made to this game are unsatisfactory.
Your brother need not worry. If STO is any indication, it's CO only that's the black sheep :P
Real Soviet Damage PRIMUS Page | Soviet Might Build | Artwork of my Characters | I wrote a book called "The Ring of Void"
*Doing the happy dance*
/@black_light
Bzzt! Cryptic Studios is WHOLLY OWNED by Perfect World.
PWE: Jump
Cryptic: (Five feet up in the air) Uh. Which direction?
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
That's just the moon coliseum/Forum Malvanum.
@IonutRO
And you know this how?
Outside of a couple shared systems (the online store, chat, etc), there can be major differences in back-end code and it wouldn't make a bit of difference.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
From the Until Report 7-20-12:
"Nemesis Updates
- Open mission OR in-world dynamic encounters w/ your Nemesis
- More minion types and options for standard Nemesis content"
From the Ask Cryptic Questions:
Will the nemesis creator be updated with the Earth and Wind Power sets?
"We?re not currently planning to expand the Nemesis Creator."
I really wish they'd remove that Until Report because it had so many promises that they failed to keep. Especially with the nemesis system. It's a great addition that further gives more customization to the game. And for them to say that they'd be updating it and just so happen to change their mind kinda...sucks.
I've been playing the game for 2 years now because I love it. I can't find another game like it and I have made alot of friends here. (Its so easy compared to many other MMOs) I want to see Champions thrive. It has the potential to be THE superhero game. But I now see why people are so afraid that the game will end up like CoX. It's been months since we got new costumes and travel powers. When's the last time we got a new powerset? Or new additions to existing ones? It just feels like CO is an afterthought.
Forget about that though, apart from the devs hiding behind pictures of food or memes these days trying to "connect" with some of the player base in order to have some kind of defence, this game is not going anywhere in terms of production, you know if they were just honest with their plans, i don't want to know everything because sometimes finding it is fun, but really just give us a straight forward answer, more lockerboxes and vehicles? pushing the real player base away with this B.S seriously.
Since vehicles launched i have not bought or tried to claim one at all, i think it's good as an addition to the game, but it's all the devs ever think about, it's all they ever release now days.
I admit i enjoyed the lemurian invasion mission fighting the bleak harbinger, that was awesome and not too bad actually, i didn't die once.
As for Auras, well that's a start, but your still a million miles away from city of heroes, they had this a while back, and they are still shut down now!
I agree with @Mother's Love you have intentionally ignored most if not all the questions asked, you act like nothing is a bother and you think you can do this and take peoples money.
There are new games coming out, new MMO's super hero ones, aren't you all glad?
Why?
Not because you can play them, but because once there is competition in the super hero genre but PWE will buck up their ideas to improve this game, but by then it will already be too late.
The internetz is one crazy place! tread carefully!
I'd really like them to FIX the Nemesis creator. You know, so you can once again see examples of the minions you're selecting - and have the loading of a saved costume actually alter the default yellow and blue preview of your nemesis.
Using flowers and chocolate gives same result.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Im not the person you were responding to, but the whole CO/STO/NWN (now) was a code system Cryptic created to show that they could stand up MMO's in short time and share servers. The power system of each game is clearly shared (STO sometimes shows power bugs that are common between games, bet you NWN does the same). Once you play them for a short time (I play CO and STO both since their respective launches) it's clear they are joined at the hip to the same underlying engine. One key indicator is that *every* maintenance patch is downtime in both games. There is simply no reason for this if they are not closely bound, as server maintenance alone would be the only other reason for this.
The one upside to all this is that it may mean CO lives on considerably longer than it's player population alone and development would indicate - STO/NWN may "carry" the game along since if there are server resources underutilized CO may be expected to fill the gap and provide modest income. The problem IMNSHO is that comics folks are by and large loyal to an IP; DCUO and Marvel (which CO originally was) draw folks no matter what the quality of the game is; CO must depend on a name and IP that virtually no one outside of older, hardcore PNP players is aware of. New players see Defender and are like "wut"?
If Marvel would "takeover" CO and infuse it with their content (which will never in a million years happen), it would likely take off in a hearbeat albeit with clone-madness to contend with. At one point the plan was for CO/STO/ and now NWN (it was some other weird game in the beginning - think Monster Island meets Cthulhu) to be part of a gaming portal subscription - with them being the first MMO's to have subscriptions through the X-Box, but Microsoft/Marvel's parting killed all that and Cryptic got left holding the bag.
We all know the score, but in case it's not clear yet, Ima try and simplify it -
Cryptic is not here to please us, Cryptic is here to make money, then please us.
"but they should please the players blah blah blah!!!!!" you say!
And I agree!!! Completely!!! But sadly, that is not the case.
So, we have options.
ONE:
Get all pissy about it, swear we're going to pack up our toys and go home, then 3 years from now keep throwing the same pants-soiling tantrum, or
TWO:
Accept the status, and work within the limitations we have. If Cryptic needs to make money before they can please us, then we have to either figure out a way for them to make money, or be displeased and let it burn.
Personally, I love CO too much to let it burn, so I'd like to suck it up, wipe off my poo, and make Cryptic some money so they can get back to making me happy.
HOOZ WIF MEH!?!?!?
Unrelated - Happy Pi day everyone!!!!
"I'm sorry baby! I can change, I swear!!!"
"Sniff.... O-okay...."
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=207071
Bring it back!
Which is exactly as bad as enduring the beatings silently, without even the threat of leaving, because "maybe you can help them through it", and because sometimes CO takes you out to dinner. You do not have the high ground Obi-Wan.
I agree but only if they stop making promises they can't keep, if they actually listen to the gamers first too, but if a large group of people are not happy, then change is needed, remember it's not the company that makes the game, it's the community that help make the game, and by that i mean who stays loyal to it because they are made happy, i'm not going to go to my local coffee shop for 10 years because i want them to make money do i? i go there because it has the best coffee to me, better than starbucks, and because they strive to make the customers happy, that's dedication for you, that's what companies should be doing, this is why i like The Phoenix Project, they actually want the community ideas even placing a community member in the game!
They release content for us to see everyday and when the game releases it will change the way we have been treated by developers in the past, make us see what we are worth, not just a content here and a costume bug there.
I get that a lot of us are whiners and are throwing our toys out the pram, but if we don't are just letting slide poor game issues and pathetic work in the future?
You have to realize, we deserve better, whether we throw a tantrum now or in the next 5 years, we deserve better, that is the ultimate problem here.
The internetz is one crazy place! tread carefully!
There is no guarantee it would benefit Champions-Online Pion.
Certainly learning from the game's history and how the one-thousand percent jump in revenue generated from the F2P relaunch was not re-invested back - I wonder which project all that revenue went to? - I wonder!?.
No, the Studio's cack-handed juggling of multiple titles and their disproportionate allocation of devs to each title is horribly broken and cannot be justified (although I would love to hear their explanation). This issue definately needs to be sorted first.
I would love to support Champions-Online more, I would love to see it grow into all it could be - but I'll be damned if I am going to spend money here only to see the revenue generated diverted elsewhere and zero-growth on this my title of choice.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
- MOAR Vehicles
- MOAR Lockboxes
- No plans for Nemesis or ANY improvements to existing content/features
- No news on how they plan to address the Chat Bann issue or even a mention of it (guess I should start spamming the NWO forums with warnings to RPers that they should expect to get banned from their preferred activity there)
- And everything else is a bunch of "we're taking it into consideration [but no plans yet]" and "Soon?" answers.
...In other words, Ask Cryptic as usual (not that I was expecting more than that, but... meh).I'd also like to add that the part above is especially bad. Pleasing us and making money aren't things that are mutually exclusive. Cryptic needs to please the playerbase to make their money. Surely it's obvious that if their customers are displeased with the product, it's likely to affect the revenue generated by said product?
So no, they don't need to please us out of some magnanimous sense of goodwill, but it's absolutely within their best interests to keep us happy. Threatening to pick up your ball and go home isn't effective since often those players never leave, and Cryptic keeps getting their money. However, keeping your mouth shut and just dealing is exactly as effective. "Letting it burn" isn't really a viable option unless you just don't give a s*** about playing anyway.
The best case scenario is to voice your concerns and hope the company listens well enough.
Give CO a little time. Not because I'm expecting a miracle from them, mind you. I've tried the Neverwinter beta and I can honestly tell you that I don't see this game going anywhere any time soon. It's not that impressive, to be perfectly honest. Overall this is a game that gives you like 4 options as your starting class, and if you think that'll last you're crazy. Once people realize how lame of an endeavor it is, they'll have devs back where they belong.
It's gonna be a quiet year 2013.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
I've been on the fence whether to resub since returning to the game earlier this year. After reading this Q&A I have no desire to resub.
Cryptic you should be embarrassed with the direction of this game.
@headlesshorseman
This is a major bummer.
"You shoot him, I shoot you, I leave both your bodies here and go out for a late night snack.
I'm thinking maybe pancakes." ~ John Casey
a
I believe the NWO foundry is a new version and not a direct copy of the STO one. I think we stand a better chance of getting it once NWO is out and the bugs are taken cared of, even with an actual Dev team I wouldn't count on a foundry this year. Earliest would be 1st Quarter 2014...course that is just a guess on my part. I do want to believe they know we want it and are willing to try to get it for us, when they can.
I'm also a bit sad because of the neglect for the Nemesis system which is for many players the main selling point of this game - and a one true original trait of Champions Online.
It appears that nothing more can be done, for now.
Again. Simply because they share the same historical codebase doesn't mean that all changes do (or can) roll back to the earlier properties.
If Marvel took over we'd see it morphed into a bastard of CO and the Marvel Heroes MMO.
I, personally, don't want to be "Wolverine73293410"
The thing is, Cryptic (and by extension PWE) pretty much HAVE to keep CO going themselves. The rights for the Champions IP reverts otherwise.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
I will say this.
If Cryptic ceases putting out content that makes players want to spend money, how is it the players' fault?
If Cryptic (and its publisher-du-jour) continually make stupid decisions that chase away players and are nothing more than outright crash-grabs with no actual VALUE behind it, how is it the players' fault?
The long and short of it is this:
Champions Online is in this vile predicament because Cryptic can BUILD a decent MMO, but can't GROW or MAINTAIN one to save their asses (save by accident).
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
I don't see how the rights would revert when they(Cryptic) own it lock, stock and barrel. The only Champs-related thing they don't own is Steve Long's personal character. Perhaps you're thinking of licensing?
Question: Do you, or does anyone you know look at this game's code and the code of STO and/or NW?
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Ah. The eternal refrain. "Give them time! Give them time!"
They've had OVER FOUR YEARS (the ignorance and idiocy with CO started back in alpha). Pretty much reeling from one bungled debacle to the next.
Hell, they've basically IGNORED the game for a YEAR by pulling all the devs off for NWN instead of hiring more devs to make the NWN schedule up and allow CO to continue to grow.
What've we gotten out of it in that time?
A bunch of broken almost-events that were quickly yanked and yet another that was pushed out half-finished and badly implemented with the Live crowd serving as beta testers.
But hey! Maybe I'll buy a few thousand in lockbox keys and a couple vehicles right?
WRONG!
This game and the Cryptic customers paying to play it deserve far better than the crap sandwich they've been served up.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
What direction?
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Nope. CO ceases (or transfers outside of Cryptic's (or whoever owns them) and the rights revert.
If not, ask Steve Long the next time you see him.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Heading straight to Lockboxville with a quick stop at Big Nighthawk Bill's Discount Hawkjet Sales.
False...you know there be no discounts. :biggrin:
My Amazon author page
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Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
This is the point I'm trying to pound into the heads of the people who're talking (from a certain orifice other than their mouth) "authoritatively" about how "easy" it would be to backport something implemented in one of CO's successor products back into CO.
I'm saying that, simply because the same (or evolutionary increments of) skeleton of code was used for each of these products doesn't mean that backporting is easy.
Is it POSSIBLE? Sure!
How much is it going to cost? The programming needed to alter the game, and the new art assets required for the interfaces aren't going to be freebies.
What's it going to break?
How much is it going to cost to fix THAT?
I'm saying that the issue is a LOT more complex than a simple yes/no question.
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
Well. I GUESS that qualifies.
I stand corrected!
"Champions-Online and Star Trek Online contained hundreds of hours of mediocre content!"
and "nothing was polished".
--Jack Emmert
You replied to me in a rather lengthy manner but you didn't address the question you quoted.
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Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
*looks at Mentella*
Me: Sorry, but it looks like you'll be in those psychic supression bonds alot longer than previously imagined...I am so very sorry.
Mentella: *scowls violently, voice laced with venom* You don't even WANT to know what I'd do if these restraints weren't so damn heavy.
Me: *smiles* Don't worry you'll be out of those restraints...SOON LOL!
Mentella: Genius...pure genius... *facepalms*
PSI Initiate: Here's another pot of fresh peppermint tea you two...
Mind Slayer: Well I'm off, gotta go run some errands for Psimon, you two want anything?
Mentella: Yes, I'd love my powers turned back on...
Mind Slayer: *sighs* I can't help you there I'm afraid, just sit tight for the moment...6 months and counting right?
Q_Q
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__________________________
Naw, naw, see here, we normally sell our Hawkwings for 10000 Zen, but we're sellin' 'em to ya for the low low low price of howevermanykeysittakestogetone, or you can take one of our premium used jets armed with confetti and bagpipes for the low, low price of way too much!
TRY TO FIND BETTER DEALS THAN MINE!
- Nighthawk, the Used Jet Salesman.
By the way, I NEED A CO VEHICLES VERSION OF THIS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sZuN0xXWLc
I NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED IT
note: nsfw, lots o' swearing
Sorry, I do not believe CO is just an earlier version of code that lives on the same servers as STO/NWN, I am convinced that they share an underlying application base through libraries and active processes that sits on the OS because every patch/maintenance and some times even new power effects result in expression within the other.
Divergence in the two games happens at a higher level and through what data is then referenced. Unless Cryptic makes it public we are both guessing, but I think the preponderance of what was revealed early on about the coding for multiple games at one time plus observable patterns in game indicate they are ride upon some common code base and even live processes at the hip
My theory: They can't upgrade the engine without giving us Foundry, because the new versions of the engine require all of CO's art assets to be indexed and cataloged. That's what we've been told is the largest obstacle to Foundry on CO. If they did the indexing, they'd have 90% of Foundry support done anyway. (And yes, as a software developer myself, I'm well aware of the 90/90 Rule. :biggrin:)
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
The code in the games is less different than people who have never seen the guts are led to believe which is why some things that aren't official in one game can be done anyway by executing the command from the other game...
Some of the things that "can't be done" are already in the game to varying degrees including some that are already complete...
Some of the things that they have to test for "feasibility" already work...
Some of the things they have stated will take a long time and a large amount of dev hours to fix I've personally watch get fixed in a span of minutes by a single person, some by two people...
Some of the bugs they "can't fix" have been fixed by people with no professional experience with the game...some of these fixes have been brought directly to their attention....still not in the game officially by the way...
And there's more but I'm not trying to stir a **** storm by going into detail about everything on this topic.
Like I said before. People are upset that the Ask Cryptic didn't tell them certain things. On the contrary, it really told us everything we need to know.
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Is it messed that that sometimes I create oddball scenarios just like this in my head too?
But on a serious note after reading over the answers and having pretty mixed feelings over it I've come to a conclusion: Cryptic is heavily distracted.
Oh sure we have a dev team(barely) but they can only do so much as their time is clearly spread out.
I instantly noticed that the number one quesiton myself alot of other people have been asking and pounding into the mindset of Cryptic time and time again was the hopeful addressing of the pressing issue that quite frankly they have been really lacking in communication. Right now Trailturtle seems to be one of the few constantly giving us any new information at all and he is a trooper in doing so . My hat tip to you sir.
But it's not enough y'all. We need to hear on at least a biweekly basis from a full fledge team and not this skeleton crew most of us highly suspect(and are probably right) that's doing all they can to keep the ship together. We already are aware of some of the former paragon folks put on staff and being placed in sto and I understand they all have been given obligations or have time constraints, but quite frankly I think I speak for alot of us when I say right now we seriously need a team just like that if not better.
This is starting to become a repeat of back in the late period of 09 up until early 2010 when Cryptic basically didn't even say jack squat to the community for a good while until it was almost too late. Now all of us really don't want another repeat of that but it is starting to look that way and it will cause a rift. Heck it already has started and its getting deeper.
There I've had my say.
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