Who here has bought a lockbox costume set? If you said "yes", are you really going to complain about spending $10 on a costume set? That will be available whenever you get around to buying it? Because I'm pretty sure you can spend far more to not get a lockbox costume and may not get it at all before the box disappears.
Hey if the less impressive sets cost less I may be encouraged to buy them... but if the newer expensive sets going forward don't really impress me...I will be less likely to buy them.
Suggestion: Provide secondary tradeable purchase options for C-store costume sets. Instead of unlocking the costume for the account, a purchase drops a lockbox-like set into the buyer's inventory. Obviously these sets would still need to be purchased each time, even for Gold/Lifetime members. It would bring purchase options to people who have Cosmic Keys or Globals instead of Questionite.
1. Glad I've got all the ones I want from the store on my 2 main accts.
Haven't got the SCifi soldier -yuck or scientist- too many similar peices already.
So many thoughts. So many things covered. I'm swimming on where to actually start but let's give it a go anyways...
The reason Holoforce, IMO, is the top selling set is because it offers OPTIONS and set what myself, and from conversations from friends I know I am not alone on this, some others thought was the new top tier standard from Cryptic North for the future of costume sets. It offered Hex, Glass, Psi, and Brushed Metal on all pieces(even though, in all honesty, the Brushed Metal on Holoforce and Psionic Dragon does not look right when compared to Scifi). The set was also mostly comprised of what I would refer to as more "generic"(not in a bad way) geometric shapes and such which allowed many of it's pieces to be applied to a much larger array of themes.
.
I'm going to piggy back my own agenda item on this. Please release more sets with the newer texture options (holo, psi, glass, etc..) and on top of that. Please consider a weapon set that has those texture options as well.
Players have been asking for a way to have more customizable weapons for years. If you are looking for things to sell in the Zen store..
So for the more expensive sets will you be fixing the clipping? Many of the new sets have clipping issues that stick out like a sore thumb.
Heck the entire tailor, one of the games shining features, is quickly filling up items that don't work with each other. (Some sets don't work well with each other let alone other pieces)
While I can see reasons behind a tiered pricing of costumes, few things needs to be done as well:
- Z-Store costumes should be tradeable. So they can be gifted or put on AH. Instead of selling account unlocks, Z-Store could be selling tradeable unlock tokens.
- Many costumes still needs fixing, especially after they'll go expensive.
So for comparison purposes, I checked the C-store for our sibling STO.
Uniform packs there are a consistent 550 zen. However, that's for everything from the Bajoran Militia set, or the Original Series set, to the catsuit worn by Seven of Nine on Voyager. Yes, that's right, five and a half bucks for one outfit. (And the ships, which are often merely "space costumes" with the same capabilities as existing ships? Those tend to run around 2000 Zen - or more.)
Maybe the tiered pricing isn't that bad after all. As long as it leads to an improved income, that is then spent on improving CO.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Hmm. Newish player here. I bought holo-force and the power armor bundle pretty much first thing and was/am eyeing Patterned and tech tights (which I also bet goes up a bit). Since at that point I'll have most of the expensive ones I can't really argue against the ones that I look at and think 'I wouldn't mind having that for that one item but not for 5 bucks' going down in price.
I imagine Geo Armor is likely to go up. I would recommend against that. Nothing personal, but CO's version of the Rock armor comes across as way too paper mache'/rubber monster. I think that's a shame, and it deserves to be a higher price costume set, but it didn't make the grade. Personal opinion. I keep trying to make costumes with it and keep not liking the results enough to not pull the trigger and buy it.
What else is likely? Epic Samurai? I keep wanting to use those shoulders on a really big guy. Not sure I would pay 10 for that, but it's a nice enough detailed costume that I don't think I would feel bad about the price in general.
Dark Armor? Nice set, doesn't feel like it plays well with others though. This is actually the one worry I DO have with tiered pricing, the nicer sets detail level makes it difficult to match them with some of the more...Hasbro action figure looking sets.
Retro Sci-Fi maybe, mostly for the bubble helms and whatnot. Haven't been able to convince myself to buy it, but I'd understand. the helms and bubble gloves are very nice. Lot of the rest of the pieces are a bit underwhelming. Weird issues with the smooth leg armor whenever I check it as a possibility for armored/power armored characters. Not really with it, just that it looks like it would clang against the other pieces if the character tried to bend it's knee. Just doesn't 'fit' when mix and matched, if that makes sense.
Anyway, maybe it's just because I haven't been playing long enough to feel already invested, but the price structure makes sense to me. Then again, my last game was Marvel Heroes and their costumes are a single slot and vary in price (as do the character unlocks themselves) based on the level of work involved/technical difficulty.
Retro Sci-Fi maybe, mostly for the bubble helms and whatnot. Haven't been able to convince myself to buy it, but I'd understand. the helms and bubble gloves are very nice. Lot of the rest of the pieces are a bit underwhelming. Weird issues with the smooth leg armor whenever I check it as a possibility for armored/power armored characters. Not really with it, just that it looks like it would clang against the other pieces if the character tried to bend it's knee. Just doesn't 'fit' when mix and matched, if that makes sense.
There's actually a small space at the knee, which prevents collision between the thigh armor and the shin armor. I've got one toon, Patchwork, who uses the Retro Sci-Fi Leg Accessory because everything else wants to cling to the outline of the "official" leg (for this toon, both legs are supposed to be largish prosthetics), but I'm using the Mech foot/shin pieces because I think it looks cool. The knee gap isn't obtrusive enough to make me notice it, but it means the two pieces don't collide.
Now if only the retro jetpack didn't collide with the back of almost any helmet in flight...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
What else is likely? Epic Samurai? I keep wanting to use those shoulders on a really big guy. Not sure I would pay 10 for that, but it's a nice enough detailed costume that I don't think I would feel bad about the price in general.
i beleve 3 from that set including the shoulders are common drops from mobs in the hi-pan alert.
Thanks for the heads up, and yeh, I can see where you are going here with depreciating the old/small sets, and wanting balance out the high polish/large sets vs old stuff ... but .. (you knew that was comming :biggrin:)
It might not be best for you, but right now the system is simple and straight forward,you have 2 tiers .. all costumes an the emblem-weapon "gum packs".
The new scheme will make the current "list of costumes" at random prices will just look confusing and arbitrary, making work for you
I'd say
- I'd keep costumes it to 2 or 3 teirs, old/depreciated, basic/normal, advanced. Move the "gum" to it's own area to avoid a mess. Heck just put the depreciated stuff on permanent sale and you've lost a tier and make the price differencation look better (*)
- there needs to be an obvious reason, more clearly list number of parts, better description related to textures in the C-store for the price difference.
ex: "This costume item is one of our older sets and may have lower quality or less parts than our basic sets. It has now permanently on sale for 20% off!!".
ex: "This costume set is lovingly made with over X parts, chests and leg pieces contain unique textures ... blah blah"
Like I said .. you've made busy work here fixing the shop descriptions (which are bad enough since many the pictures show free items being worn with the set)
- more fair price difference right now you have a 2.5x price differnce from depreciated to advanced. Can't say any costume pack I've seen close to $10 .. 750 is kinda pushing it.
(*) (Not sure why I'm helping you making the bad pricing schemes look better)
Really? Can you hand me over your rabbit paw and your shamrock talisman for i can get my project clockwork armor after having opened 25 lockboxes and not having even a clockwork rifle? :biggrin:
I begin to really wonder if there is not an in-built security in every lockbox saying "you won't get anything valuable until you spend X amount of keys on this"
Really? Can you hand me over your rabbit paw and your shamrock talisman for i can get my project clockwork armor after having opened 25 lockboxes and not having even a clockwork rifle? :biggrin:
I begin to really wonder if there is not an in-built security in every lockbox saying "you won't get anything valuable until you spend X amount of keys on this"
Also, Im really unsure how I should feel about this, its an good thing to will help new players to see the C-store more better, and the fact Costumes like the Power Armor, that had alot of attention will be more pricey, i mean makes sense to me, worth your money.
But part of me is worried that, this will just draw players away, are you going to be fixing up costumes and making more? and taking more care?
But the bad side of me thinks this,I mean, you guys don't seem to care about the things we want, like new powersets, the new hideout rooms, and now your just thinking, lets punish our fanbase more by making prices bigger?
TT, you really need to start coughing up answers, for god sake please.
Obviously CrypticBuxom made their own Edit to reflect the CO case
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergies! Playing since 1 February 2011 128 + Characters (21 ATs, 107 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
Hey if the less impressive sets cost less I may be encouraged to buy them... but if the newer expensive sets going forward don't really impress me...I will be less likely to buy them.
And that is entirely reasonable! The goal is that the more expensive sets should impress people, like the Holo-Force did. If they don't impress people, then we've screwed up.
I'm going to piggy back my own agenda item on this. Please release more sets with the newer texture options (holo, psi, glass, etc..) and on top of that. Please consider a weapon set that has those texture options as well.
Players have been asking for a way to have more customizable weapons for years. If you are looking for things to sell in the Zen store..
My suspicion is that future sets will use those textures, as the Psionic Dragon did. If the work's been put in to design the base texture, it's probably worth putting in future sets. As a TK player, I definitely want the Glass texture for my swords, not going to lie.
And is the whole C-store getting a Price Check?
Because, it should...
Probably at some point I'll do a check of the other categories, but my next priority is going to be other stuff, specifically the promotions I mentioned in the original post.
everything in the game, but a subscription, can be bought with ingame currency.
^Want to highlight this. We've been adding value to a lot of other systems, and will continue doing so in some ways, so people continue getting more bang for their buck.
This is purely my subjective feeling about the various costume sets and where they might sit in terms of the upcoming change in value for money/inflation. I have suggested here 4 bandings each with a 150g spread between then although the premium could be pushed to 1000g if extremely polished
Premium - 800g
Wizard & Witch - Lots of Parts, Versatile Wired Cyborg - Lots of Parts, including head parts and tights Variety Pack - 100 parts. Versatile. Swamp King - Lots of Parts, including body and face textures and headwear/mask Steel Hawk - Lots of parts, including tights, and helmets and two wing options for arms Soldier of Fortune - Lots of parts including patterns and accessories Sci-fi Soldier - Lots of parts including new emblem placement area but no helmet or weapon skin included. Psionic Dragon Armor - Lots of parts, and material options allow for variety of uses. add a tights set for extra polish and fix brushed metal/psi glow options Holoforce Armor - (admittedly biased here) - lots of parts and material options, has tights with multiple configurations High Plains Drifter - lots of parts and options, good accessories. Halloween All-in-one - combination of several other packs, probably be in the premium simply because of that Golden Age - lots of parts, versatile set Cosmic Knight - lots of parts, versatile classic set. Introduces aura options into costume and true headless option
Special - 650g
Victorian - Lots of Parts, subject to glitches - including loss of seperate color on victorian skirt following it's live release. Tactical Armor - Good amount of parts including tights with several variations. No helmet or face mask options Spartan Armor - lots of parts, good quality for age. Shining Knight - Lots of parts, good quality for age. - shares tights pattern with Shining Knight Sakura Mecha Armor - Lots of parts, however missing matching tights and specific helmet Retro Sci-Fi - Lots of parts, great helmets and weapon skins. tights included. new material was added with irridescent metal. Pulp - Lots of parts, new hairstyles, weapon skins Power Armor - Lots of parts, great holo accessories Pharaonic Master - lots of parts, good quality for age. Ninja Warrior - lots of parts, good accessories New Millennium Tights - lots of options including both tights and skin variants. if it had matching full or partial face masks I think it would be premium Martial Arts Master - lots of parts, good hair options Legacy Power Armor - lots of parts, good quality however limited material options on various parts Iron Age - lots of parts, good quality set Heroic Formal - lots of parts, good quality set Demon Knight - Lots of parts, good quality for age - shares tights pattern with Shining Knight Dark Ages Fantasy - Lots of parts and options. good quality City Street Defender - lots of parts and options, some clipping on smaller characters. adds new emblem option on sleeve Arabian Nights - decent set with lots of nice parts Ancient Rune Armor - decent set with plenty of options/glow but feels unfinished due to lack of tights or underarmor/mail Halloween Creatures Pack - good set with lots of options Robot Samurai - lots of parts, weapon skin, new tights option
Standard - 500g
Viking Warrior - Lot of Parts, was available free via Alienware giveaway for majority of F2P game life. Tesla Coil - Medium amount of parts, no included tights or helmet, glitches with glow areas on female characters Tech Tights - Good amount of variations Star Tights - Good amount of variations but can't use with majority of jackets or chestwear as memory serves. Roin'esh - Lots of parts, however some earnable in game Nighthawk - complete set costume, some parts previously earnable in game Luchador Costume - lots of parts, good quality, however also earnable in game. Jet Packs - few parts, however flame/jet interactions where appropriate travel power is chosen High-Tech - lots of parts but more a random collection of spare pieces than a set Harajuku Girl - decent amount of parts, including weapon skins. Costume and unlocked emotes are both Female Only. Geo Armor - individual parts are good but no matching rock tights with glow option included, however adding more refined versions of parts to the existing set would push this into high medium or high value. Epic Samurai - good parts with lots of details however feels unfinished due to not including tights or clothes for under armor Elemental A-Symmetry Tights - Good amount of variations Dryad - Fun set with some interesting parts Cyborg Beast - few parts but lots of detail, has been given away in past, perhaps repackage with High-Tech set and sell at next pricing level. Classic Heroic Tights - good amount of variations Cape Collection - good selection of cape variations Bone Armor - feels incomplete. needs tights or body texture to match parts. needs skull or bone head parts Urban Anime - average set. feels somewhat lacking/unpolished for a newer set compared to others/lockbox sets Scientist - average set. feels somewhat lacking/unpolished for a newer set compared to others/lockbox sets
Extras - 350g
Steampunk Cyborg - medium amount of parts, also earnable in game. Wild Things - few parts, some earnable in game Serpent Armor - few parts, no matching tights Ranged Weapons Pack - good set of parts Melee Weapons Pack - good set of parts Redeemed Villain - few parts, earnable in game. Patterned Armor - few parts 'accessories' Magical Girl - relatively few parts, major clipping issues on tail piece since release. Female Only. Hats and Heads Halloween Webs - few parts, has been given away via arc Halloween Skeleton - few parts Halloween Mask Pack - relatively few parts, quality is variable Halloween Hats - few parts Feather Armor - few parts, limited use Dark Fantasy Armor - feels unfinished - no helmet, no tights or chainmail (hell even including the shining knight/demon knight pattern would move this into medium low value) Cartoon Animals Heads & Masks - poor/variable quality. limited use. Cardboard Armor - few parts, limited use Beast heads - few parts Zombie - few parts, earnable ingame Dark Demon Armor - few parts
Edit: Just read TT saying those pricing bands previously announce are locked in, which is disappointing.
Er... An abandoned game is raising up the prices? Wut? What sort of sense does this make?
This is the part that I don't get either. Although I would whole-heartedly agree that some of those costume sets (that were released last year, right?) are nice pieces of work and were worth a premium when there were signs the game might have a viable future, those signs have all disappeared IMHO. Why would anyone substantially increase their investment in a game that has no significant updates or concrete plans for significant updates?
LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
you could go through the Rank up catalysts prices;
1. lockbox flooded the market with R1-5, so those are redundant.
2. R6 is 57, R9 is 66. With Diminishing returns, that doesn't give much.
3. WE don't really have much in the way of content which needs R9. No gear grind or PvP or raids or anything competitive.
How about dumping the ones for Ranking to 2-6 and putting the R7-9 rankups at their prices.
Because quite frankly, the current price;
R7 - $20,
R8 - $24
R9 - $30 $74 for ONE mod rankup from 5-9 is ridiculous. Even just
Swapping it to the cost of the first 4 gives;
R7-$6
R8 - $9
R9 -$10
$25 for ONE mod out of the 9 + you need for level 40 gear.
Yes, those prices don't look so good in dollars, do they.
For 5-6 , if you don't have crafting, use Safeguard catalysts, which are at a sensible price. They don't guarantee success but they are cheap enough that people aren't likely to be worried about wasting them.
Like what the last two pages of comments have suggested, the price increase is just making older players pay more and discourage newer players from buying anything. No one is going to be more likely to buy the cheaper sets because cheaper is admittance to poor quality.
News articles are going to say "Champions Online is raising their prices" and then you compare that to the articles surrounding that with "lack of content", "maintenance mode", and "poor quality update" and you'll detract even more players. If content was delivered as regularly as DCUO this wouldn't be as surprising, but for a game that gets one meaningful (however incomplete) extension to the story and lore of the game in the last two years?
This suggests that either you two don't know how to price in favor of the game, don't understand the long term benefit of lowering prices to grab attention to newer players, or that sabotage is in play. And considering how poor the last Donation Event prizes were compared to the other games (another event where you have stated that you were in charge of deciding in rewards for all three games and intentionally gave CO poor ones in comparison to STO and NWO) suspicion increases.
Overall, if a costume set gets more sales because of its quality, than that is already more bank being made. Its a testament that other poorly selling sets need to be updated or fixed. Wanting to charge more is being downright greedy.
You know how you improve sales? Permanently reduce Freeform slots and vehicles by 60%. You'll get more purchases from more players. Its not like the items take up physical space or something.
News articles about CO? Yeah, I'll believe that when I see it...
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
No one is going to be more likely to buy the cheaper sets because cheaper is admittance to poor quality.
Not to split hairs, but there's a difference between "delivering mid-tier quality at a mid-tier price' and "delivering poor quality." If a player wants lobster, we've got the Holo-Force Armor; if they want Outback Steakhouse, we've got the Wizard & Witch; if they're in the mood for a Grand Slamwich, we've got the Swamp King. Not everyone wants a Slamwich, but I loved the one I had on Friday.
... considering how poor the last Donation Event prizes were compared to the other games (another event where you have stated that you were in charge of deciding in rewards for all three games and intentionally gave CO poor ones in comparison to STO and NWO) suspicion increases.
To clarify: I chose the rewards for... I think two games all told, BLR and CO. I didn't have any involvement in the other Cryptic games' prize lists. Additionally, those games have the advantage of much larger stables of items they can easily give away.
This suggests that either you two don't know how to price in favor of the game, don't understand the long term benefit of lowering prices to grab attention to newer players, or that sabotage is in play.
I freely admit that my specialty isn't monetization -- there's a reason that I'm an Assistant Product Manager -- but it's part of my core competency, and Radio's no slouch at it either. After identifying what we thought each costume set was worth, from a quality standpoint, we made sure that those prices were in line with what people would be willing to pay, that we wouldnt be pricing it out of reach.
That estimation of willingness takes account of a ton of different factors: Price points for charging ZEN, stipend amounts, how expensive comparable sets are in other games, etc.
And yes, increasing the price will result in fewer units sold; Economics 101. That doesnt mean that overall sales are going to decrease, though, or that were going to alienate new players. If we thought either of those were the case, we wouldnt be doing this. With all the data we have, weve investigated and come to the conclusion that this is a net benefit. While anecdotal experience is useful in deciding these kinds of things, having back-end data lets us make fully-informed decisions especially about groups like new players, who tend to be underrepresented on forums and in chat.
Wow. Trailturtle, I love you, man. But right now I feel sorry for you. It's like you're the guy that's had to tell the Fuhrer that Zhukov's troops have captured Berlin. This must be a PR nightmare.
Wow. Trailturtle, I love you, man. But right now I feel sorry for you. It's like you're the guy that's had to tell the Fuhrer that Zhukov's troops have captured Berlin. This must be a PR nightmare.
While I appreciate the vote of support... man, you have no idea how calm you guys are. Seriously. I mean, of course I'd like it if everyone saw things my way, but if someone disagrees with me, they ask for clarification or they express themselves pretty politely. I can't exactly ask for much more than that. I do want to thank the people who've disagreed with this decision for how adult they've been in airing their feelings.
I want a patch for the time we removed one-day rentals from Blacklight: Retribution. >.>
In fact, adding entitlements to costume sets, like an extra emote or something, would really sweeten the deal.
I would have bought Harajuku Girl, even though I had 0 interest in playing female characters, if only I could get those emotes.
That small part made me want to buy. What do you think? Are small extras like the Harajuku Girl emotes something that's feasible in the future to sweeten the deal on the bigger sets?
While I appreciate the vote of support... man, you have no idea how calm you guys are. Seriously. I mean, of course I'd like it if everyone saw things my way, but if someone disagrees with me, they ask for clarification or they express themselves pretty politely. I can't exactly ask for much more than that. I do want to thank the people who've disagreed with this decision for how adult they've been in airing their feelings.
I want a patch for the time we removed one-day rentals from Blacklight: Retribution. >.>
Oh, dude. I won't lie. If you did this on GW2 or WoW, you'd be in something that resembles an ISIS video on a beach in Tripoli.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I just don't see how anyone can seriously be opposed to this change. I see this change as positive, exactly as it's been presented:
It is a rebalancing of the prices. The money we save on the cheaper sets can be put toward purchase of more expensive ones. It means future releases that are simple will also be in line with the cheaper priced sets, and we may even see single bubble-gum pack costume pieces for 50Z a pop (ie: BEARDS? )
It's my guess that most people here understand and agree that some sort of change has long been necessary, but as players we don't have the perspective to determine what that should be. We can offer suggestions, we can give anecdotes, and we can express fears, but we don't have the data.
The old pricing system was pretty silly. There were some sets that I just didn't get because I couldn't justify paying that much for them, and other sets that I just felt were a complete steal for all they offered.
I hope most people here are trusting you to know better than us what is best for the health of the game while being fair to everyone and rewarding the developers for extra work.
You all want to encourage them to make more great costume sets, right? Hmm...
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I just don't see how anyone can seriously be opposed to this change.
While I don't have a real stake in this debate, it can easily be read as "Good costume sets that I might actually want are getting more expensive. Crappy costume sets that I don't want in the first place are getting cheaper".
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I just don't see how anyone can seriously be opposed to this change. I see this change as positive, exactly as it's been presented:
It is a rebalancing of the prices. The money we save on the cheaper sets can be put toward purchase of more expensive ones. It means future releases that are simple will also be in line with the cheaper priced sets, and we may even see single bubble-gum pack costume pieces for 50Z a pop (ie: BEARDS? )
It's my guess that most people here understand and agree that some sort of change has long been necessary, but as players we don't have the perspective to determine what that should be. We can offer suggestions, we can give anecdotes, and we can express fears, but we don't have the data.
The old pricing system was pretty silly. There were some sets that I just didn't get because I couldn't justify paying that much for them, and other sets that I just felt were a complete steal for all they offered.
I hope most people here are trusting you to know better than us what is best for the health of the game while being fair to everyone and rewarding the developers for extra work.
You all want to encourage them to make more great costume sets, right? Hmm...
Most of us are cynical. We haven't really had much new content in the past two years, the most was an hour or two's worth of Mechanontent a few months ago. Was a neat little bit of missioning after years of GMing a few Mechanon-centric plots in PnP, and discovering those in-game lore glowies about the character, but I felt like we could have gotten much more. GATEWAY's rarely visited anymore, not even the roleplayers use it often.
I would love if we had enough financial and population-based drive for another Vibora Bay-sized content expansion. Something to keep us going for a while with another city or big, open map to explore.
Just another average RPer, costume part collector, and tabletop gamer.
"Lower quality costume sets are getting $1.50 off. Decent ones are being doubled in price." The 'middle ground' here isn't $5.00, it's about $7.00. So, the 'medium quality' is more expensive than the original price.
Double price? I didn't see that in the announcement.
The price points named are $.50 (possible), $3.50, $6.00, $7.50, and $10 for a bundle. The example bundle was the psionic dragon and holoforce sets together.
You just forgot to specify "different" in your original post, now i could say that opening 3 boxes with 3 keys mean either buy those keys with G's or with Zens, ergo it is by definition NOT free....but well :cool:
Not to split hairs, but there's a difference between "delivering mid-tier quality at a mid-tier price' and "delivering poor quality." If a player wants lobster, we've got the Holo-Force Armor; if they want Outback Steakhouse, we've got the Wizard & Witch; if they're in the mood for a Grand Slamwich, we've got the Swamp King. Not everyone wants a Slamwich, but I loved the one I had on Friday.
Ok, so here's my bit off of your quote. To me it's not whether I want the Lobster, Steak, or Burger...it's about when I get one of those things whether it's raw, made incorrectly, or I have to eat it sitting on a milk carton and worry that the roof is going to cave in on me while I do so.
In the example of a hamburger it's like if the katsup was blue, the pickles are missing, and previous customers warned you that the bread was moldy but there simply wasn't enough time to go out and get fresh bread. It's not the design of the meal so much as the implimentation, delivery, and whether or not my fork(tailor) is missing it's prongs.
Now TT you know I have no ill will towards you but to me this is a bit of a touchy subject because "polished" keeps getting tossed around in here as one of the justifications of these price changes....so....where is the polish? Now don't get me wrong in that I'm not entirely negative here since Cryptic North is still LEAGUES above Old Cryptic but if you were to log into CO with all of these costume sets and spend a little time with them I am fairly positive you would also see some of your own issues. Ok, so take your list of issues and go into the PTS Archives and I'm almost willing to bet you'll find posts that mention those issues. The testers put this stuff through it's paces, found the problems, and then more often than not the regular live players spend the current live price to buy those problems. Since you're the CR I won't fault you for not knowing about the Space Scoundrel Jacket Issue because that's not really your job but it's listed in the PTS threads for that set so the devs should have known.
Also, the focus/debate/whatever about costume sets is only a tip of the iceberg(which can be seen in this thread also). This is the potatoes...where's the MEAT?
Double price? I didn't see that in the announcement.
The price points named are $.50 (possible), $3.50, $6.00, $7.50, and $10 for a bundle. The example bundle was the psionic dragon and holoforce sets together.
Looks it is bundles OR holo-force set, didn't see reference to psionic dragon in original post :
1000 ZEN Holo-Force Armor, and the Power Armor Bundle. This tier will have the bundle packs, and the best of the best costume sets: The 750 tier is the inner ring, but this is the bullseye. These costume sets have a special spark to them that sets them apart, like the Holo-Forces special textures. Because they push the envelope, though, they need more iteration and work. This tier is hyper-exclusive, to the point that only a handful were even nominated to get in; these costume sets are the face of the C-Store.
Considering how little development we get, and how we're not getting any new power sets (which is a terrible idea for a superhero mmo), I really don't see why any items are getting a price increase. Most of the money earned by this game doesn't really seem to be benefiting the CO community at all, aside from "keeping the lights on". Granted our tiny, under appreciated dev team (do we even have one anymore?) does what they can, it really doesn't seem to be enough to justify increasing any prices.
If anything, they should be lowering prices across the board to milk what they can before the next two superhero mmos launch. I'm not saying they're going to kill this one, since we all know cryptic did that practically at year one. But still, those games are going to have a large impact on this game regardless, so raising any prices just seems in poor taste.
I enjoyed the space missions, but one thing like that a year just doesn't justify some of the prices people are already paying vs how little they're already getting.
Since Holoforce (in and of itself) has so many great options (all sets need to be like this) It is easily worth the 750. Raising that to 1000 zen (if it's not bundled with psi-dragon) is a complete joke. We shouldn't be paying more for the one good thing, when the rest of the game is lacking the very quality that makes that one thing so great.
I like this game, but there isn't a thing in it worth $10, and that's coming from a guy with a stipend. If all future costumes are going to be 1000 zen, then CO isn't going to be getting any more money from me until they start putting out new power sets. Not just giving us two unreleased powers and calling it an set.
TT said it on the original post and again in other posts here. The sets are being repriced according to several basic numbers: number of pieces, number of variations per piece, number of problems with pieces, etc. Obviously the more pieces a set has, as well as more variations per piece (like material), the higher the value. Inversely, the value of the set is affected by the number of problems the set has, dragging it's price down. I'm guessing that, since older sets were mentioned in the original post, the age of the set will weigh in on the new value too, though probably not as heavily as the other numbers.
There aren't currently any plans to change what Gold players get access to, no, aside from the monthly new rewards pieces.
The first part of this made perfect sense. In fact, if how Gold members have access to new rewards peices doesn't change, adding that bit wasn't necessary. However, you did add it, and that makes me worry that we're either going to lose access to new pieces or - worse - lose access to reward pieces all together. Please clarify.
Shouldn't end up being the case. We made waaaaaaay more money off of sets like the Holo-Force Armor than any of the smaller sets this year -- at the risk of sounding like Captain Business, that's the gravy train I want to ride, even if it means sets take a while to release.
Well, there was a vested interest, not only to make the set quickly but to do it right because a LOT of players voted for that set during the contest. You knew it would sell, so the effort was put in not only to give it the number of pieces and wide range of settings, but to make sure it worked right from the start. Everybody won! Yes, I want you guys to ride that kind of gravy train, and I can only hope everyone else does too.
QUOTE: This was part of the process for deciding which tier pieces would be sorted into. There were a fair few pieces that went into the 600Z or 375Z in large part because they had a low number of pieces; conversely, there were a few pieces that went into a higher tier because they had a breadth of pieces that were fresh and different from other sets.
--Trailturtle
This statement is a little disingenuous. Moving any costume set into the 600 Z category is a price raise, not a drop because it has a low number of pieces. What costume set is currently over 475 Z (except for bundles)? None.
I agree that the 600z price tier is a step up. Keeping the "average" set at 475z or maybe 500z to round things out, would help everyone see it as the "average" set. Otherwise, unless the number of sets being dropped to 375z out numbers all other tiers, there could be something akin to mutiny.
ESPECIALLY THAT THE MOST SUCCESFUL ONES YOU QUOTED HAVE NOT BEEN DESIGNED BY YOU BUT BY PLAYERS...
Um... actually, the design idea came from players. The Devs still had to take those ideas and turn them into the costume pieces we use today. So, while the idea was fresh and popular (obvious via the voting and the purchases), the credit for getting the costume put together and working correctly goes to the Devs.
Now, for my thoughts...
I'm not a gamer who spends a lot of money on this game - or any game - beyond the monthly sub cost. That being said, I'd consider myself a mid-line player. I don't have any spare Gs or Zen to use on anything. So, I plan what I purchase with my monthly stipend carefully. For the most part, that has been deciding which costume set to buy each month. Now, it seems, that's about to change.
Change is hard. We're not gaining or losing anything (immediately). They're changing the cost of something that's been available in the Z-Store for ... well, since they were released. Other than new players, anyone who hasn't bought what they want from the Z-Store by now only has themselves to blame. I'll grant, I have a list of things I want, and only a few of them are costume sets, but that doesn't change my goals. Nor should it change anyone else's. Someone posted that CO is changing prices on something that has no real affect on game play, and that's only mostly true. Some costume pieces affect how some powers aim. Chest Beam. Try it. For the most part though, they're correct. At the same time, this affects the biggest selling point of the game: costume customization. It will affect which costumes new players buy or when anyway. So, if it hurts how new players feel about the game and the data indicates that the game isn't gaining as many new players as it did before this change, then things will probably change again. There's no way to know until it happens. Predicting what will happen is pointless other than waiting for the chance to come into the forums and shout, "I TOLD YOU SO!!" And really, who's going to be that childish about it?
Change is inevitable. TT made it clear, this isn't up for debate, it is happening. We should honestly be grateful we've gotten any head's up about this because how often do we get any head's up? Even if something new is being put into PTS for the game, most players don't know it's coming until it's live. And that's only because they don't read the forums. So, look for the announcement as to what costume sets are going to be changed to which price tier, and buy what you can before the price goes up OR wait for the price change and buy it when the price comes down. Whatever the case, plan for it. We're gamers. We like to plan things out, to think outside the box. So, use the info you have and make it happen.
Change will cost. Several posters have stated that bugs should be the primary focus for devs of the game. I believe bugs should be tended to, but not the primary focus. To generate interest and keep the game alive, new stuff (and I use that term because it means costumes, auras, vehicles, missions, drops, areas, etc. etc. etc.) has to be created, tested, and implemented. Notice I skipped the step to fix anything. If they fix it before implementing then they do. If not, then the bug department has something else to work on. YES, there should be a team, even if only one person, working on bugs in the game. Hell, I'd VOLUNTEER to do so as long as they kept me working on only Bugs for CO and not move me to anything else. Now - back to topic - what will this change cost? We don't know yet. We won't know until the change happens and players respond.
So, this is the first real change we'll see in CO this year. It may seem grim to most, but so long as it does help the game, as TT and RS seem to believe it will, I'm okay with it. Should this help the game, then we could be looking forward to new content that might not have been considered before. We might even see some bug fixes. Who knows? Keep your fingers crossed, keep taking out the bad guys, and keep a watchful eye out for Dr. Destroyer!
The Costume Price Changes are fine and all, but do you think we can get more bugfixes and missions to run soon? Perhaps even new powers instead? I think we're good on costume options for now.
I'm willing to volunteer my time and experience, what little I have left, to Champions Online's developmental future. :biggrin:
Comments
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Haven't got the SCifi soldier -yuck or scientist- too many similar peices already.
2. comments on the thread, exactly as expected.
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I'm going to piggy back my own agenda item on this. Please release more sets with the newer texture options (holo, psi, glass, etc..) and on top of that. Please consider a weapon set that has those texture options as well.
Players have been asking for a way to have more customizable weapons for years. If you are looking for things to sell in the Zen store..
And i thought i was on a free ride.
So, if I have bought all the Sets so far, do i win or lose Zen with the new prices?
In what category would Sets like the Science Costume Set fit?
600Zen?....
U must be *cking kidding....
Or are we actually getting Actual Sets and not just "Sets"?
And throw the farging Lock Box sets like the Space Scoundrel in the 750-1000Zen category and i might not /flip table....
And, $10 for a Costume Set seems a bit of a Greedy Move in CO...
And is the whole C-store getting a Price Check?
Because, it should...
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Heck the entire tailor, one of the games shining features, is quickly filling up items that don't work with each other. (Some sets don't work well with each other let alone other pieces)
- Z-Store costumes should be tradeable. So they can be gifted or put on AH. Instead of selling account unlocks, Z-Store could be selling tradeable unlock tokens.
- Many costumes still needs fixing, especially after they'll go expensive.
Does that mean you're going to re-align the Anime set to 50Zen? Because it's a broken piece of crap?
Gotta love our PWE overlords.
we open 3 lock boxes and get a free costume
everything in the game, but a subscription, can be bought with ingame currency.
we dont have the population we used to, if raising costume prices for higher quality sets keeps the game alive, so be it.
Uniform packs there are a consistent 550 zen. However, that's for everything from the Bajoran Militia set, or the Original Series set, to the catsuit worn by Seven of Nine on Voyager. Yes, that's right, five and a half bucks for one outfit. (And the ships, which are often merely "space costumes" with the same capabilities as existing ships? Those tend to run around 2000 Zen - or more.)
Maybe the tiered pricing isn't that bad after all. As long as it leads to an improved income, that is then spent on improving CO.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I imagine Geo Armor is likely to go up. I would recommend against that. Nothing personal, but CO's version of the Rock armor comes across as way too paper mache'/rubber monster. I think that's a shame, and it deserves to be a higher price costume set, but it didn't make the grade. Personal opinion. I keep trying to make costumes with it and keep not liking the results enough to not pull the trigger and buy it.
What else is likely? Epic Samurai? I keep wanting to use those shoulders on a really big guy. Not sure I would pay 10 for that, but it's a nice enough detailed costume that I don't think I would feel bad about the price in general.
Dark Armor? Nice set, doesn't feel like it plays well with others though. This is actually the one worry I DO have with tiered pricing, the nicer sets detail level makes it difficult to match them with some of the more...Hasbro action figure looking sets.
Retro Sci-Fi maybe, mostly for the bubble helms and whatnot. Haven't been able to convince myself to buy it, but I'd understand. the helms and bubble gloves are very nice. Lot of the rest of the pieces are a bit underwhelming. Weird issues with the smooth leg armor whenever I check it as a possibility for armored/power armored characters. Not really with it, just that it looks like it would clang against the other pieces if the character tried to bend it's knee. Just doesn't 'fit' when mix and matched, if that makes sense.
Anyway, maybe it's just because I haven't been playing long enough to feel already invested, but the price structure makes sense to me. Then again, my last game was Marvel Heroes and their costumes are a single slot and vary in price (as do the character unlocks themselves) based on the level of work involved/technical difficulty.
Now if only the retro jetpack didn't collide with the back of almost any helmet in flight...
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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i beleve 3 from that set including the shoulders are common drops from mobs in the hi-pan alert.
It might not be best for you, but right now the system is simple and straight forward,you have 2 tiers .. all costumes an the emblem-weapon "gum packs".
The new scheme will make the current "list of costumes" at random prices will just look confusing and arbitrary, making work for you
I'd say
- I'd keep costumes it to 2 or 3 teirs, old/depreciated, basic/normal, advanced. Move the "gum" to it's own area to avoid a mess. Heck just put the depreciated stuff on permanent sale and you've lost a tier and make the price differencation look better (*)
- there needs to be an obvious reason, more clearly list number of parts, better description related to textures in the C-store for the price difference.
ex: "This costume item is one of our older sets and may have lower quality or less parts than our basic sets. It has now permanently on sale for 20% off!!".
ex: "This costume set is lovingly made with over X parts, chests and leg pieces contain unique textures ... blah blah"
Like I said .. you've made busy work here fixing the shop descriptions (which are bad enough since many the pictures show free items being worn with the set)
- more fair price difference right now you have a 2.5x price differnce from depreciated to advanced. Can't say any costume pack I've seen close to $10 .. 750 is kinda pushing it.
(*) (Not sure why I'm helping you making the bad pricing schemes look better)
Really? Can you hand me over your rabbit paw and your shamrock talisman for i can get my project clockwork armor after having opened 25 lockboxes and not having even a clockwork rifle? :biggrin:
I begin to really wonder if there is not an in-built security in every lockbox saying "you won't get anything valuable until you spend X amount of keys on this"
lockbox loyalty reward 3 different lockboxes
I know it said things can change but since a few were mentioned by name just wondering how set they are on those particular ones.
Lifetime no longer gives a forum title. That should be updated on the Lifetime page that mentions what you get. PMing the CSR doesn't work neither.
And ATTENTION isn't FREE. Got to get MONEY somewhere.
See how I capitalize important words, makes it more official.
Where did you get that image btw?
Also, Im really unsure how I should feel about this, its an good thing to will help new players to see the C-store more better, and the fact Costumes like the Power Armor, that had alot of attention will be more pricey, i mean makes sense to me, worth your money.
But part of me is worried that, this will just draw players away, are you going to be fixing up costumes and making more? and taking more care?
But the bad side of me thinks this,I mean, you guys don't seem to care about the things we want, like new powersets, the new hideout rooms, and now your just thinking, lets punish our fanbase more by making prices bigger?
TT, you really need to start coughing up answers, for god sake please.
You know what would help? BUG FIXES!
Also getting
The old costumes haven't aged very well
It's the Boardroom Suggestion Internet Meme
Obviously CrypticBuxom made their own Edit to reflect the CO case
And that is entirely reasonable! The goal is that the more expensive sets should impress people, like the Holo-Force did. If they don't impress people, then we've screwed up.
My suspicion is that future sets will use those textures, as the Psionic Dragon did. If the work's been put in to design the base texture, it's probably worth putting in future sets. As a TK player, I definitely want the Glass texture for my swords, not going to lie.
Probably at some point I'll do a check of the other categories, but my next priority is going to be other stuff, specifically the promotions I mentioned in the original post.
^Want to highlight this. We've been adding value to a lot of other systems, and will continue doing so in some ways, so people continue getting more bang for their buck.
The ones mentioned are locked in.
Thank you, and yeah you also have a good point too
Premium - 800g
Wizard & Witch - Lots of Parts, Versatile
Wired Cyborg - Lots of Parts, including head parts and tights
Variety Pack - 100 parts. Versatile.
Swamp King - Lots of Parts, including body and face textures and headwear/mask
Steel Hawk - Lots of parts, including tights, and helmets and two wing options for arms
Soldier of Fortune - Lots of parts including patterns and accessories
Sci-fi Soldier - Lots of parts including new emblem placement area but no helmet or weapon skin included.
Psionic Dragon Armor - Lots of parts, and material options allow for variety of uses. add a tights set for extra polish and fix brushed metal/psi glow options
Holoforce Armor - (admittedly biased here) - lots of parts and material options, has tights with multiple configurations
High Plains Drifter - lots of parts and options, good accessories.
Halloween All-in-one - combination of several other packs, probably be in the premium simply because of that
Golden Age - lots of parts, versatile set
Cosmic Knight - lots of parts, versatile classic set. Introduces aura options into costume and true headless option
Special - 650g
Victorian - Lots of Parts, subject to glitches - including loss of seperate color on victorian skirt following it's live release.
Tactical Armor - Good amount of parts including tights with several variations. No helmet or face mask options
Spartan Armor - lots of parts, good quality for age.
Shining Knight - Lots of parts, good quality for age. - shares tights pattern with Shining Knight
Sakura Mecha Armor - Lots of parts, however missing matching tights and specific helmet
Retro Sci-Fi - Lots of parts, great helmets and weapon skins. tights included. new material was added with irridescent metal.
Pulp - Lots of parts, new hairstyles, weapon skins
Power Armor - Lots of parts, great holo accessories
Pharaonic Master - lots of parts, good quality for age.
Ninja Warrior - lots of parts, good accessories
New Millennium Tights - lots of options including both tights and skin variants. if it had matching full or partial face masks I think it would be premium
Martial Arts Master - lots of parts, good hair options
Legacy Power Armor - lots of parts, good quality however limited material options on various parts
Iron Age - lots of parts, good quality set
Heroic Formal - lots of parts, good quality set
Demon Knight - Lots of parts, good quality for age - shares tights pattern with Shining Knight
Dark Ages Fantasy - Lots of parts and options. good quality
City Street Defender - lots of parts and options, some clipping on smaller characters. adds new emblem option on sleeve
Arabian Nights - decent set with lots of nice parts
Ancient Rune Armor - decent set with plenty of options/glow but feels unfinished due to lack of tights or underarmor/mail
Halloween Creatures Pack - good set with lots of options
Robot Samurai - lots of parts, weapon skin, new tights option
Standard - 500g
Viking Warrior - Lot of Parts, was available free via Alienware giveaway for majority of F2P game life.
Tesla Coil - Medium amount of parts, no included tights or helmet, glitches with glow areas on female characters
Tech Tights - Good amount of variations
Star Tights - Good amount of variations but can't use with majority of jackets or chestwear as memory serves.
Roin'esh - Lots of parts, however some earnable in game
Nighthawk - complete set costume, some parts previously earnable in game
Luchador Costume - lots of parts, good quality, however also earnable in game.
Jet Packs - few parts, however flame/jet interactions where appropriate travel power is chosen
High-Tech - lots of parts but more a random collection of spare pieces than a set
Harajuku Girl - decent amount of parts, including weapon skins. Costume and unlocked emotes are both Female Only.
Geo Armor - individual parts are good but no matching rock tights with glow option included, however adding more refined versions of parts to the existing set would push this into high medium or high value.
Epic Samurai - good parts with lots of details however feels unfinished due to not including tights or clothes for under armor
Elemental A-Symmetry Tights - Good amount of variations
Dryad - Fun set with some interesting parts
Cyborg Beast - few parts but lots of detail, has been given away in past, perhaps repackage with High-Tech set and sell at next pricing level.
Classic Heroic Tights - good amount of variations
Cape Collection - good selection of cape variations
Bone Armor - feels incomplete. needs tights or body texture to match parts. needs skull or bone head parts
Urban Anime - average set. feels somewhat lacking/unpolished for a newer set compared to others/lockbox sets
Scientist - average set. feels somewhat lacking/unpolished for a newer set compared to others/lockbox sets
Extras - 350g
Steampunk Cyborg - medium amount of parts, also earnable in game.
Wild Things - few parts, some earnable in game
Serpent Armor - few parts, no matching tights
Ranged Weapons Pack - good set of parts
Melee Weapons Pack - good set of parts
Redeemed Villain - few parts, earnable in game.
Patterned Armor - few parts 'accessories'
Magical Girl - relatively few parts, major clipping issues on tail piece since release. Female Only.
Hats and Heads
Halloween Webs - few parts, has been given away via arc
Halloween Skeleton - few parts
Halloween Mask Pack - relatively few parts, quality is variable
Halloween Hats - few parts
Feather Armor - few parts, limited use
Dark Fantasy Armor - feels unfinished - no helmet, no tights or chainmail (hell even including the shining knight/demon knight pattern would move this into medium low value)
Cartoon Animals Heads & Masks - poor/variable quality. limited use.
Cardboard Armor - few parts, limited use
Beast heads - few parts
Zombie - few parts, earnable ingame
Dark Demon Armor - few parts
Edit: Just read TT saying those pricing bands previously announce are locked in, which is disappointing.
@Liath | My PRIMUS Page | Altaholics | New Vehicle Models | New Emblems | Flag Tights
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I'll offer a business tip: it's best to sell lots for cheap than less for expensive.
This is the part that I don't get either. Although I would whole-heartedly agree that some of those costume sets (that were released last year, right?) are nice pieces of work and were worth a premium when there were signs the game might have a viable future, those signs have all disappeared IMHO. Why would anyone substantially increase their investment in a game that has no significant updates or concrete plans for significant updates?
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
1. lockbox flooded the market with R1-5, so those are redundant.
2. R6 is 57, R9 is 66. With Diminishing returns, that doesn't give much.
3. WE don't really have much in the way of content which needs R9. No gear grind or PvP or raids or anything competitive.
How about dumping the ones for Ranking to 2-6 and putting the R7-9 rankups at their prices.
Because quite frankly, the current price;
R7 - $20,
R8 - $24
R9 - $30
$74 for ONE mod rankup from 5-9 is ridiculous. Even just
Swapping it to the cost of the first 4 gives;
R7-$6
R8 - $9
R9 -$10
$25 for ONE mod out of the 9 + you need for level 40 gear.
Yes, those prices don't look so good in dollars, do they.
For 5-6 , if you don't have crafting, use Safeguard catalysts, which are at a sensible price. They don't guarantee success but they are cheap enough that people aren't likely to be worried about wasting them.
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News articles are going to say "Champions Online is raising their prices" and then you compare that to the articles surrounding that with "lack of content", "maintenance mode", and "poor quality update" and you'll detract even more players. If content was delivered as regularly as DCUO this wouldn't be as surprising, but for a game that gets one meaningful (however incomplete) extension to the story and lore of the game in the last two years?
This suggests that either you two don't know how to price in favor of the game, don't understand the long term benefit of lowering prices to grab attention to newer players, or that sabotage is in play. And considering how poor the last Donation Event prizes were compared to the other games (another event where you have stated that you were in charge of deciding in rewards for all three games and intentionally gave CO poor ones in comparison to STO and NWO) suspicion increases.
Overall, if a costume set gets more sales because of its quality, than that is already more bank being made. Its a testament that other poorly selling sets need to be updated or fixed. Wanting to charge more is being downright greedy.
You know how you improve sales? Permanently reduce Freeform slots and vehicles by 60%. You'll get more purchases from more players. Its not like the items take up physical space or something.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I'm more than willing to pay a bit more for bug free good costume releases.
BUG FREE being the proper words.
Terrible texture wrapping around the side of females.
Costume sets with bugged textures months and YEARS after release that STILL aren't fixed.
Whatever happened to the promised fix to the boob wrap (chest wear version) on the Anime set? That was how long ago for a VERY SIMPLE TEXTURE FIX?!?
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Not to split hairs, but there's a difference between "delivering mid-tier quality at a mid-tier price' and "delivering poor quality." If a player wants lobster, we've got the Holo-Force Armor; if they want Outback Steakhouse, we've got the Wizard & Witch; if they're in the mood for a Grand Slamwich, we've got the Swamp King. Not everyone wants a Slamwich, but I loved the one I had on Friday.
To clarify: I chose the rewards for... I think two games all told, BLR and CO. I didn't have any involvement in the other Cryptic games' prize lists. Additionally, those games have the advantage of much larger stables of items they can easily give away.
I freely admit that my specialty isn't monetization -- there's a reason that I'm an Assistant Product Manager -- but it's part of my core competency, and Radio's no slouch at it either. After identifying what we thought each costume set was worth, from a quality standpoint, we made sure that those prices were in line with what people would be willing to pay, that we wouldnt be pricing it out of reach.
That estimation of willingness takes account of a ton of different factors: Price points for charging ZEN, stipend amounts, how expensive comparable sets are in other games, etc.
And yes, increasing the price will result in fewer units sold; Economics 101. That doesnt mean that overall sales are going to decrease, though, or that were going to alienate new players. If we thought either of those were the case, we wouldnt be doing this. With all the data we have, weve investigated and come to the conclusion that this is a net benefit. While anecdotal experience is useful in deciding these kinds of things, having back-end data lets us make fully-informed decisions especially about groups like new players, who tend to be underrepresented on forums and in chat.
Sure they won't, that's why the PS3 won last console war... wait, it didn't, actually Sony suffered a humilliating defeat on that one.
While I appreciate the vote of support... man, you have no idea how calm you guys are. Seriously. I mean, of course I'd like it if everyone saw things my way, but if someone disagrees with me, they ask for clarification or they express themselves pretty politely. I can't exactly ask for much more than that. I do want to thank the people who've disagreed with this decision for how adult they've been in airing their feelings.
I want a patch for the time we removed one-day rentals from Blacklight: Retribution. >.>
Unisex harajuku emotes.
In fact, adding entitlements to costume sets, like an extra emote or something, would really sweeten the deal.
I would have bought Harajuku Girl, even though I had 0 interest in playing female characters, if only I could get those emotes.
That small part made me want to buy. What do you think? Are small extras like the Harajuku Girl emotes something that's feasible in the future to sweeten the deal on the bigger sets?
Oh, dude. I won't lie. If you did this on GW2 or WoW, you'd be in something that resembles an ISIS video on a beach in Tripoli.
Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I just don't see how anyone can seriously be opposed to this change. I see this change as positive, exactly as it's been presented:
It is a rebalancing of the prices. The money we save on the cheaper sets can be put toward purchase of more expensive ones. It means future releases that are simple will also be in line with the cheaper priced sets, and we may even see single bubble-gum pack costume pieces for 50Z a pop (ie: BEARDS?
It's my guess that most people here understand and agree that some sort of change has long been necessary, but as players we don't have the perspective to determine what that should be. We can offer suggestions, we can give anecdotes, and we can express fears, but we don't have the data.
The old pricing system was pretty silly. There were some sets that I just didn't get because I couldn't justify paying that much for them, and other sets that I just felt were a complete steal for all they offered.
I hope most people here are trusting you to know better than us what is best for the health of the game while being fair to everyone and rewarding the developers for extra work.
You all want to encourage them to make more great costume sets, right? Hmm...
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Most of us are cynical. We haven't really had much new content in the past two years, the most was an hour or two's worth of Mechanontent a few months ago. Was a neat little bit of missioning after years of GMing a few Mechanon-centric plots in PnP, and discovering those in-game lore glowies about the character, but I felt like we could have gotten much more. GATEWAY's rarely visited anymore, not even the roleplayers use it often.
I would love if we had enough financial and population-based drive for another Vibora Bay-sized content expansion. Something to keep us going for a while with another city or big, open map to explore.
Looking for a lore-based Superhero RPSG? Why not http://earth-guard.shivtr.com/?
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"Lower quality costume sets are getting $1.50 off. Decent ones are being doubled in price." The 'middle ground' here isn't $5.00, it's about $7.00. So, the 'medium quality' is more expensive than the original price.
The price points named are $.50 (possible), $3.50, $6.00, $7.50, and $10 for a bundle. The example bundle was the psionic dragon and holoforce sets together.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
You just forgot to specify "different" in your original post, now i could say that opening 3 boxes with 3 keys mean either buy those keys with G's or with Zens, ergo it is by definition NOT free....but well :cool:
Ok, so here's my bit off of your quote. To me it's not whether I want the Lobster, Steak, or Burger...it's about when I get one of those things whether it's raw, made incorrectly, or I have to eat it sitting on a milk carton and worry that the roof is going to cave in on me while I do so.
In the example of a hamburger it's like if the katsup was blue, the pickles are missing, and previous customers warned you that the bread was moldy but there simply wasn't enough time to go out and get fresh bread. It's not the design of the meal so much as the implimentation, delivery, and whether or not my fork(tailor) is missing it's prongs.
Or, to restate, this...
Also, the focus/debate/whatever about costume sets is only a tip of the iceberg(which can be seen in this thread also). This is the potatoes...where's the MEAT?
State
Of
The
GAME
...please. :cool:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
Looks it is bundles OR holo-force set, didn't see reference to psionic dragon in original post :
^This. Apologies for the confusion: I wanted to give two separate examples, one being the Power Armor Bundle, the other being the Holo-Force.
If anything, they should be lowering prices across the board to milk what they can before the next two superhero mmos launch. I'm not saying they're going to kill this one, since we all know cryptic did that practically at year one. But still, those games are going to have a large impact on this game regardless, so raising any prices just seems in poor taste.
I enjoyed the space missions, but one thing like that a year just doesn't justify some of the prices people are already paying vs how little they're already getting.
Since Holoforce (in and of itself) has so many great options (all sets need to be like this) It is easily worth the 750. Raising that to 1000 zen (if it's not bundled with psi-dragon) is a complete joke. We shouldn't be paying more for the one good thing, when the rest of the game is lacking the very quality that makes that one thing so great.
I like this game, but there isn't a thing in it worth $10, and that's coming from a guy with a stipend. If all future costumes are going to be 1000 zen, then CO isn't going to be getting any more money from me until they start putting out new power sets. Not just giving us two unreleased powers and calling it an set.
The first part of this made perfect sense. In fact, if how Gold members have access to new rewards peices doesn't change, adding that bit wasn't necessary. However, you did add it, and that makes me worry that we're either going to lose access to new pieces or - worse - lose access to reward pieces all together. Please clarify.
Well, there was a vested interest, not only to make the set quickly but to do it right because a LOT of players voted for that set during the contest. You knew it would sell, so the effort was put in not only to give it the number of pieces and wide range of settings, but to make sure it worked right from the start. Everybody won! Yes, I want you guys to ride that kind of gravy train, and I can only hope everyone else does too.
I agree that the 600z price tier is a step up. Keeping the "average" set at 475z or maybe 500z to round things out, would help everyone see it as the "average" set. Otherwise, unless the number of sets being dropped to 375z out numbers all other tiers, there could be something akin to mutiny.
Um... actually, the design idea came from players. The Devs still had to take those ideas and turn them into the costume pieces we use today. So, while the idea was fresh and popular (obvious via the voting and the purchases), the credit for getting the costume put together and working correctly goes to the Devs.
Now, for my thoughts...
I'm not a gamer who spends a lot of money on this game - or any game - beyond the monthly sub cost. That being said, I'd consider myself a mid-line player. I don't have any spare Gs or Zen to use on anything. So, I plan what I purchase with my monthly stipend carefully. For the most part, that has been deciding which costume set to buy each month. Now, it seems, that's about to change.
Change is hard. We're not gaining or losing anything (immediately). They're changing the cost of something that's been available in the Z-Store for ... well, since they were released. Other than new players, anyone who hasn't bought what they want from the Z-Store by now only has themselves to blame. I'll grant, I have a list of things I want, and only a few of them are costume sets, but that doesn't change my goals. Nor should it change anyone else's. Someone posted that CO is changing prices on something that has no real affect on game play, and that's only mostly true. Some costume pieces affect how some powers aim. Chest Beam. Try it. For the most part though, they're correct. At the same time, this affects the biggest selling point of the game: costume customization. It will affect which costumes new players buy or when anyway. So, if it hurts how new players feel about the game and the data indicates that the game isn't gaining as many new players as it did before this change, then things will probably change again. There's no way to know until it happens. Predicting what will happen is pointless other than waiting for the chance to come into the forums and shout, "I TOLD YOU SO!!" And really, who's going to be that childish about it?
Change is inevitable. TT made it clear, this isn't up for debate, it is happening. We should honestly be grateful we've gotten any head's up about this because how often do we get any head's up? Even if something new is being put into PTS for the game, most players don't know it's coming until it's live. And that's only because they don't read the forums. So, look for the announcement as to what costume sets are going to be changed to which price tier, and buy what you can before the price goes up OR wait for the price change and buy it when the price comes down. Whatever the case, plan for it. We're gamers. We like to plan things out, to think outside the box. So, use the info you have and make it happen.
Change will cost. Several posters have stated that bugs should be the primary focus for devs of the game. I believe bugs should be tended to, but not the primary focus. To generate interest and keep the game alive, new stuff (and I use that term because it means costumes, auras, vehicles, missions, drops, areas, etc. etc. etc.) has to be created, tested, and implemented. Notice I skipped the step to fix anything. If they fix it before implementing then they do. If not, then the bug department has something else to work on. YES, there should be a team, even if only one person, working on bugs in the game. Hell, I'd VOLUNTEER to do so as long as they kept me working on only Bugs for CO and not move me to anything else. Now - back to topic - what will this change cost? We don't know yet. We won't know until the change happens and players respond.
So, this is the first real change we'll see in CO this year. It may seem grim to most, but so long as it does help the game, as TT and RS seem to believe it will, I'm okay with it. Should this help the game, then we could be looking forward to new content that might not have been considered before. We might even see some bug fixes. Who knows? Keep your fingers crossed, keep taking out the bad guys, and keep a watchful eye out for Dr. Destroyer!
championswiki.com
I'm willing to volunteer my time and experience, what little I have left, to Champions Online's developmental future. :biggrin:
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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