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Upcoming Costume Set Changes, Discussions/Questions
trailturtle
Posts: 5,496 Perfect World Employee
Starting on 3/5, we’re going to be re-aligning the prices of costume sets in the C-Store. Some will have their prices reduced, while others will be increased. Go read through the full post here.
If you've got questions, I'll be checking this thread periodically. Later this week, we'll be posting a list of all the costumes and which tier they'll be in, then the changes themselves will take effect on 3/5.
If you've got questions, I'll be checking this thread periodically. Later this week, we'll be posting a list of all the costumes and which tier they'll be in, then the changes themselves will take effect on 3/5.
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I understand the reasons outlined in the announcement post, and I don't disagree with them, but what prompted this change now, specifically?
Is there something going on we need to know, or could/should know such as costume packs being a wildly successful sales item PWI deciding the revenue stream for them needs to increase to reflect that success?
Also; Thanks for the week warning heads-up.
Not news at all?
Gosh, yes. Saves a few hundred Zen on some sets, I suppose.
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From the looks of the post he linked it will just be to match the price of the costume set to the amount of polish it has, not necessarily revising content of costume sets.
So just altering prices it seems.
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Are you going to add that hero mask to the $.50 tier? Because it's not like anyone who already picked up cape glide is going to buy it again for a simple mask, but they might pick it up for $.50.
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Good thing I bought all those costumes before they will Become more expensive
I really don't like this change and I don't think that it will attract more players to spend money in Z store, I have spend real money to buy all the costume winner sets
Scientist Costume set Priced better be decreased to 100 Zen for that freaking Disgusting Low Quality
For a minute I though the Spaceholder Thread was gonna be about new contest, such dissapointment
While we'll still be doing occasional costume bug fixes/changes, just like we've done in the past, they aren't tied to this change.
Definitely the latter. This is about seeing a mismatch between time and price, and getting that rectified.
And no problem, any structural changes like this should be messaged when possible.
I for one own all the sets in the store and this won't effect me until the future.
With knowing prices will fluctuate...I would pay more for a better set than I would a crappy one (mad scientist). Just don't rush out a set for the sake of it. I think you are going to have some divided opinions on what should be what price.
Honestly, I'd be more inclined to believe this if the female Vikorin shoulders weren't STILL bugged after they were first included, and the Victorian dress's third color wasn't bugged after...what. A year of it being messed up?
Last time I checked cstore emblems were not available for use anywhere other than the original chest emblems. So don't work with the headphones, urban defender jacket or Steel Soldier chest wear. I have raised this several times as bug reports.
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I know that the announcement didn't say that, but that is how "1000 ZEN Holo-Force Armor, and the Power Armor Bundle" is being read.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Does this mean that costumes will be released bug free? There's still quite a few texturing issues on quite a few costume pieces, especially anything wrapped around the female body.
Oh, and the one boob wrap is still textured wrong AFAIK. That going to get fixed anytime soon?
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The costume sets that are under 500 zen will probably be the ones that are free to gold members. This would mean that a gold member will have to decide whether to add extra funds to get the sets that are 750z+, wait for 2 months to get it with their stipend and/or wait for a good sale.
As others have said before me, I'm going to get the sets I want before the increase lands in our lap.
I wonder what is next, pay zen to replay certain content *cough DCUO cough*?
I often buy a costume set that looks interesting with my monthly stipend. Usually I have a bit left over after a few months to get a key, or some other little thing. I wouldn't want to spend $10 on a set, regardless of it's quality, because of how pricey it would be, considering it's just for cosmetic additions on one's account. Costume sets don't change how CO is played, gameplay and mechanics-wise.
What about those weekly/holiday/anniversary sales, too? How would those affect this new change in prices? Does this also add or change what sets are now free for those who subscribe to Champions?
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Yes, we've stooped that low.
This new price increase change can only morally be acceptable if your team does a complete costume pass. This includes allowing pieces from ALL costume sets that have ever been out to be in even more categories, all colors become fixed in all pieces, the fourth color updates automatically while hovering over selections, and more materials being added to all pieces.
The price changes is fine if certain costume sets were only going DOWN in price. I have yet to see a costume set worth $10.
Unless you start saying that your costume sets have had more work put into them and are improved, start by actually showing it. Update the tailor and all costume pieces.
Otherwise don't update set prices already out and start applying it to newer sets and make sure those newer sets aren't released as a mess WHILE retroactively working with older sets and updated to fit with newer ones.
tl;dr You don't make more money by increasing prices. You make more money by increasing game value.
Doubtful. The content that was paid for is now free to play for everyone. Considering their other two games do not charge to play new content, I doubt that will change.
$10 for a costume set that you can use on every single character you have or will ever have is not that much. How many people have 10+ toons or 10+ outfits? Having different tiers of costume prices lets people with different amounts of disposable income still buy cool things.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
If that's the case have costume set price based on the number of pieces made for it, excluding mirrored and the other obvious no work alts. If it has more pieces in it, make it cost more. If it has fewer pieces than the average set, make it cheaper.
If I read TT's full post correctly, that's part of the criteria. Number of pieces, number of options, level of detail. That all adds into the development time.
Though, I will admit that I'm a bit disappointed to see that the prices are soaring quite a fair amount over the monthly stipends.
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Any particular cause that you can tell? Just that if you travel quickly/rubberband, the coat stretches? I think that occurs with most floppy costume pieces, but I'm not 100% sure.
Hmm. I'll take a look at this later on, then kick it up the chain. Not sure what's up with this.
Entirely reasonable. We pre-announced this because it was the neighborly thing to do.
Hell no. We're committed to not charging for content like that -- I don't know how the other game does it, but our missions, adventure packs, etc are free.
This was part of the process for deciding which tier pieces would be sorted into. There were a fair few pieces that went into the 600Z or 375Z in large part because they had a low number of pieces; conversely, there were a few pieces that went into a higher tier because they had a breadth of pieces that were fresh and different from other sets.
Low-Questionite players: One of the advantages of this change is that it lowers the floor on prices, giving them quicker access to some sets. That said, yes, they will have to get more Questionite in order to buy one of the higher-tier sets. It's worth remembering that, while they're accumulating Questionite towards one of these high-tier sets, they'll still have all the default pieces available and they'll be collecting new ones from in-game content all the time.
Intermittent chargers: One of my goals is to make sure they have items that are interesting and compelling enough that, if they charge, they're really getting their money's worth. The best way to do this is to make sure that costume sets match the quality of the final product -- that way we can sustainably make high-quality sets.
Sales: There aren't any planned changes to the sales structure. There will probably still be a fewmajor sales every year, just like before, and there aren't any plans to change the 20% weekly sales.
There aren't currently any plans to change what Gold players get access to, no, aside from the monthly new rewards pieces.
Can you please also ask if they can remove the restriction of the Scoundrel "belt cloth" being available only to the scoundrel belt piece? The way it's designed, it could easily be paired with about half the belts in the list.
That dual-belt was the driving reason behind my getting the set, but the hip part of the Scoundrel belt itself doesn't quite work with my character's chest piece.
Don't count pieces that look like other pieces that exist in game or retextured alts. But honestly, the price of a costume should be based on complexity most of all. If a costume has only one great piece while there are 30 other clutter parts that aren't worth anything, than there's a problem.
But seriously though, apply these price changes to NEW costume sets. Not ones already out.
I agree with Buxom. WHAAAAAAT!!?!?!?!
Sets that have been out for years shouldn't increase just because they might be well done.
My fear is that sets will be in poor quality and pushed out without proper testing and fixes.
"oh just charge less for it and move on -END-"
Shouldn't end up being the case. We made waaaaaaay more money off of sets like the Holo-Force Armor than any of the smaller sets this year -- at the risk of sounding like Captain Business, that's the gravy train I want to ride, even if it means sets take a while to release.
--Trailturtle
This statement is a little disingenuous. Moving any costume set into the 600 Z category is a price raise, not a drop because it has a low number of pieces. What costume set is currently over 475 Z (except for bundles)? None.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
If something made waaay more money that's because it was obviously more worth the price. Increasing the price will only hurt your sales. Sell it for high to a few or sell it for cheap to everyone.
Also should Aura Sets be looked into for varying prices based on this model? That would bring Aura sets down to 250Zen (5 aura pieces). If that were to happen then I feel this would be a worthy compromise.
Btw: Acrobatics front flip at the top of a jump causes the worst cloth stretching with scoundrel jacket.
I agree fully.
I wouldnt care for sets being in PTS for a month before release. As someone who tailors a lot, I see tons of issues with sets that never get fixed and are ignored that are new and LIVE.
If not i guess i will just buy one costume every two months instead of each month.
Now i find it quite humorous that the "lowest " price you propose is around -20% whereas the maximum increase is like more than +100%
If you would like being totally fair do something more like -50%/+50% or any mirror -/+ combination which balances in either sense
Something like dark demon with like 4-5 pieces should be at -50% for example...now i concur to the fact that no costume is worth like almost 3 months of stipend...1000Zens?? Really? :eek::mad: ESPECIALLY THAT THE MOST SUCCESFUL ONES YOU QUOTED HAVE NOT BEEN DESIGNED BY YOU BUT BY PLAYERS...so justifying an increase of 110% for a costume which has been produced by you only at 50% makes me wonder how you do your maths. Thank you to exploit twice your player base, cryptic : work for us for free, then pay to get the result of your work /applaud.
And don't make me laugh with the emblems pack at 50 Zens which are so ugly and crappy designed that i have never seen anyone using them during my whole CO experience....those are definitely not the pack of gums i am looking for.
Now how can you justify this increase with all the bugs in general and especially since in the nemesis creator we don't have access to weapons to customize our nemesis? For instance if i buy the ranged weapons pack, i would pay more to still not be able to see my nemesis use the weapons i paid for?
And if you would really advertise about the "most customizable characters game" you should add in tiny characters "...but with the less customizable vehicles" whereas it has been demonstrated that you have the technical possibilities to enable it.
If you want make money, just create a "painting kit" with recharges (like 10 charges per pack bought) to be able repaint our vehicles and avoid being turned blind by the awful color match your albino graphic team manages to produce 80% of the time with the release of every new vehicle.
Also an "emblem" kit with recharges for we could put our own emblems on our vehicles (wings/tails/mainframe) could be also cool...but since it would be cool, you will not do it.
But overall, to answer the above questions to know if it is a bad or good news, knowing that crappy costumes i don't want/costumes i have already will be at -20% and the most interesting ones will be at +30%/ +50% / +110%...yeah....i think those are pretty bad news.....:mad:
Radio and I brought up Auras after nailing down the basics of this plan. We did some thinking/poking around, and we decided Aura sets did a pretty good job of representing their price. When we didn't think a set was worth full price, we generally released it at a lower price.
Hmm, thanks. I'll take a look at it.
In my New Emblems suggestion thread I posted some examples which seemed to get a good response
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I certainly hope this money is being used to improve the game and make new content more regularly with higher quality.
Are you confirming that the aura set price and utility decision was your's and Radio's decision then?
Aura sets don't represent their price because they don't let all our characters use the parts at the same time. Regardless, I don't see any aura sets released at a lower price. Overall, the inconvenience of their utility is time consuming to swap and easy to lose forever.
Auras: No, I'm pretty sure those were set by LordGar and Russell Williams a while back. I wasn't involved in setting the initial prices, just Radio and I looked at them a few days ago and said that they should stay as-is.
Yeah, I read through that at one point. If it's that easy, it's something I want to follow up on. Not sure whether the dev team has the time for it right now, but it might be cool at some point.
Probably wouldn't release it for 50Z, though. From a business perspective, for something that cheap that's a one-time purchase, you're usually better off giving it away, or making it an in-game reward, or making it a rare bonus like the monthly rewards -- you get more than $0.50 worth of goodwill.
a) Now we'll get EVEN LESS development, so the few bones thrown in our direction will be MORE EXPENSIVE (supply vs. demand).
b) Now all worthwhile costumes will be sold at over twice the regular price.
You're aware that customization is the ONLY THING this game has going on DCUO, right? And eveb then, you're playing the Scarlet Blade game where costumes are sold for a fortune?
Can we go back to maintenance mode please? At least abandonment is better than you guys actively trying to kill this game.
Keep digging, Cryptic. Valiance is already in the graphics optimization stage, which means the game is now a matter of when, and I can care less about whatever you do at this point.
All that is left is laughing.
I dont see how you can justify keeping them the same when you are raising the prices on the *best* costumes? So, you have to spend about 10 dollars for a good costume set and about 5 dollars for a limited aura? Yeah, that makes sense... NOT! Why not go all the way and scale the auras as well, since some auras allow more customization than others? I think you would get more support if you added the choice of one aura to be account bound with each purchase of a costume set worth 750z or more.
The reason Holoforce, IMO, is the top selling set is because it offers OPTIONS and set what myself, and from conversations from friends I know I am not alone on this, some others thought was the new top tier standard from Cryptic North for the future of costume sets. It offered Hex, Glass, Psi, and Brushed Metal on all pieces(even though, in all honesty, the Brushed Metal on Holoforce and Psionic Dragon does not look right when compared to Scifi). The set was also mostly comprised of what I would refer to as more "generic"(not in a bad way) geometric shapes and such which allowed many of it's pieces to be applied to a much larger array of themes.
The problem then became that while the sets that came after these two did have some interesting pieces here and there they did not, IMO, stay anywhere near this particular standard. People rushed to PTS to get their hands on the next new thing and many of them provided tons of useful feedback, bug reports, and suggestions. Now some of this was listened to but large amounts of it never happened. IMO, this is because CN's release schedule was harkening back to a more "Old Cryptic Style" in which things were hitting PTS without the proper amount of time to actually make the necessary changes and, as a result of this, it is my expressed opinion that Costume Sets have been on an overall quality decline ever since...and then came Mad Scientist and Space Scoundrel which, IMO, are the current bottom of this barrel(I hope it's the bottom).
Now TT you know I have no ill will towards you but to me this is a bit of a touchy subject because "polished" keeps getting tossed around in here as one of the justifications of these price changes....so....where is the polish? Now don't get me wrong in that I'm not entirely negative here since Cryptic North is still LEAGUES above Old Cryptic but if you were to log into CO with all of these costume sets and spend a little time with them I am fairly positive you would also see some of your own issues. Ok, so take your list of issues and go into the PTS Archives and I'm almost willing to bet you'll find posts that mention those issues. The testers put this stuff through it's paces, found the problems, and then more often than not the regular live players spend the current live price to buy those problems. Since you're the CR I won't fault you for not knowing about the Space Scoundrel Jacket Issue because that's not really your job but it's listed in the PTS threads for that set so the devs should have known.
And then comes up the mentioning of people being busy with stuff. Ok...GREAT. Like what? I've said this on the PTS Forums very recently and I do understand that there are hesitations in telling too much information because things may change...but how about telling something? Is something substantial enough to warrant the neglect to Costume Sets, the price increases on some old and future costume sets, the lack of a Creator/Tailor/Costume Pass, and pretty much this much buggy stuff making it live coming down the pipeline in the near future? Could we get a State of The Game please even if it is vague and thin? How about some communication?
Also, just to restate this because it's come up I would like to say thank you to Cryptic North for giving me the ability to remove passive effects from my toons which may have clashed with their themes and then giving me the option to buy 1 aura for free of my choosing. Thank you also for ingame drops and lockbox drops I can buy from other players.....BUT I am one of those who will likely NEVER buy a Z-Store Aura Set, regardless of price, until such time as the model for the auras is set to BoP Multi-Claim like my Inborn Tenacity(the best Not-Aura-Aura in the game) because CO is about customization and alts pretty much and I have entirely too many alts to even remotely consider the current Z-Store Aura Distribution System as viable. So, given that tidbit of my own personal opinions, perhaps you and Radio could please give that a second thought please?
Now when it comes to this stuff I am one of the bad ones and I'll freely admit that. I own every costume set in the Z-store except:
-The 5k Perk Unlocks Sets: Why buy the ability not to earn stuff ingame?
-The Emblem Sets: Because even at their new proposed 50z...they're hideous(also, the GOOD free ones were made by players...perhaps it's time to try that again?). Also, from what I've been told(since I do not own them) they don't even work on the Scifi Soldier Chest, Headphones, and Clockwork Helm/Eye Acc Stuff. This is also true for the unlockable Emblems like Takofanes and Silver Bullet.
-Steampunk Cyborg: Because once upon a time Old Cryptic screwed up on this one, got us to grind an event for the majority of these pieces, then tried to sell us the costume set with pieces we couldn't get from the event tossed ontop and therefore making the 2009 Winter Event mostly pointless. Luckily Old Cryptic gave in after many many many months of forum threads and added the pieces to the vendor in Snake Gulch for Snake Bucks...which is where I got mine.
Oh and I do not currently own Mad Scientist because, despite being a horrible costume making addict...I just couldn't force myself to pull the trigger on this set in it's current form. With the exception of the neck ties(which I appreciate for their level of detail but do not know that I would actually ever honestly use) and the glasses(which are cool) the set is just.......bad. I've been watching the forums to see if some of that aforementioned "Polish" hits this set and then I may purchase it. Keep in mind, this is the 1st costume set I've encountered that I did not buy purely because it's that bad...and I'm one of the addicts.
Ok, this is turning into a book so lemme try and wrap this here and then maybe come back later. So, CO is in the black but people want more money. Ok, that's legit(it's a business) BUT if you want more money then as someone who is still spending money(I'm Gold and have been since 2009) I'm gonna want some stuff in return. I'm going to want a State of The Game. I'm going to want longer PTS Cycles to get these sets the "Polish" that is going to mean they cost me more money down the line. I'm also going to want a way for PTS Users to gain access to ALL previous costume unlocks for proper testing(this broke years ago). Most importantly, I'm going to want to see a semi-vague plan for more perm content than we got in 2014(which was a praiseworthy improvement from Cryptic North vs. Old Cryptic). I'm willing to continue to show CO the money but they're gonna have to show me the reason to do so.
So please, by all means, show me.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
BUT!
Release ALL THE IN GAME COSTUMES as Tailor Sets.
eg. Doctor Destory Helm, Defender pieces, White Rhino Helm etc.
All these piece are available...put them in Zstore and make them worth buying. This will pay for the time it takes to unlock them (if any really) by team and they would be very well received.
P.D: Holoforce wasn't even developed here. It's a hand-me-down from STO.
This.
Auras are clearly not equal to Costume Sets. They cost the same and are completely cosmetic BUT they aren't freely useable on all our character at the same time. Your customers base fair price entirely on useability and on the system of how things get unlocked. Visual customization is solely based on account-wide unlocks that are useable for all characters at the same time. Auras don't fulfill that category.
There is NO justification for Aura sets they way they are and how they are priced.
You don't fix that by increasing Costume Set price. You don't fix that by making Aura Sets needing repeat purchases.
You ONLY fix that by making Aura Sets unlock account wide.
You've proven that you do have the power to make this happen within the CN group. You need to understand that this greatly desired change will only HELP Champions Online from here on.
You need to get LordGar and Russel Williams (also Radio?) to come to terms on this.
Increasing the cost of items doesn't make us want to spend more money. Breaking the standard that hurts the bottom line of your customers would be the death knell of this game. This change would make the game more dependent on the "whales" rather than the majority of your customers. You need to make all purchases within reach to your customer base. You need to make decisions for the good of the customer majority, not for the good of the richer percent.
tl;dr If you make purchases small and worthwhile, you get more people to buy them and in turn draw more players into the game who want to make more of those small useful purchases. Making cosmetic purchases the price of a retail game will only turn players away. That's why Freeform slots and vehicles are laughable.
This. So long as we're getting better quality output for this proposed higher financial input, I'm more than okay with these changes, if not distinctly surprised.
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Holoforce was created using designs from a costume contest hosted on this forum. Please feel free to review the numerous blog posts dealing with the issue at your leisure.
To the topic at hand: If this move will ensure a better quality of costumes, at higher prices, thats a price I'm willing to pay. It would make me feel alot better than having all the good costume sets sectioned off for Lockbox use, as has been the recent pattern with things.
I will echo somenother players in saying that consumables and auras need a price reivew too. For per character items, auras are horribly overpriced. I also feel aura storage should be account wide. That alone would mitigate many of those shortcomings.
As busted as the tailor is right now, your LAST concern should be trying to find a way to raise the prices on costume sets.
This wouldn't be a concern if feedback from a long time ago had been heeded. Selling many of those costumes at full price was just plain bad business. You cannot sit and convince me that anyone thought the goofy animal heads or the scientist costume set was worth a full month's stipend.
Our inability to test costumes in the PTS with others we have unlocked has been a constant complaint, and there's very little 'testing' we can do. Again, you might as well just slap it on some default models and let us look at it if we can't mix and match it with things. I have never seen anyone use a full costume set exclusively.
Multiple costume files exist that we don't have access to. Put them in the Questionite store, the vendors, or as drops. Either way, they're going to waste. I personally don't even care if you put them in a variety pack.
Multiple costume sets do not have working colors. Namely, the Victorian dress. The Psionic Dragon set has multiple glow problems.
Work on making the costume parts available in all materials, at least the trinity of 'leather, cloth, metal'. Too many good parts are available only in ONE material.
Anime pistols are still worthless, since the muzzle flash is still coming from the barrel at a 90-degree angle.
Many leg accessories only work on one leg in the Medium Skirts and Shorts category.
Actually, how about this:
Fix the glaring problems in the tailor with various costume parts before you start changing prices around to get more money out of us. You know we likely own all of the 'older' sets that will be 500 zen and below, and I am a bit skeptical about future costume sets being fairly priced.
Just stop. Before you start shifting prices, fix the problems that your customers have pointed out time and time again. This is somewhat insulting that you would put this on the table before a massive fix of the existing issues that keep being ignored.
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