Nope - I guess I sound like a Trion fanboy, but I don't even have a subscription o_O... if you asked me which MMO was the best on the market, I'd say Rift without hesitation.
Technically, imho, the game blows everything else away. It's just that personally I can't stand the setting.
[I'm very much a 'systems' person, and I was simply blown away by what the devs have achieved there]
/shrug
I also like STO ship combat, and the duty roster is good fun. I'm also impressed with what the STO devs have achieved since release - although sadly it's partly an indicator of how early the game was released.
well, after playing rift for 30 days and got bored. i came back to STO.
beta tested and played tor- it a decent game but its very repetitive after maxing out a character even if you level alts . and yet it more repetitive then STO surprisingly. plus the space combat on rails is ridiculous.
So again i find myself resubscribing STO again and this i'll be staying as gold member as this game is worth my $15 month more than any on the new mmo's out there.
Nope - I guess I sound like a Trion fanboy, but I don't even have a subscription o_O... if you asked me which MMO was the best on the market, I'd say Rift without hesitation.
Technically, imho, the game blows everything else away. It's just that personally I can't stand the setting.
[I'm very much a 'systems' person, and I was simply blown away by what the devs have achieved there]
I played RIFT during the Beta and bought the collectors edition of the game. I subscribed to the game for the first 6 months of its existence. I believe I am still Grandfathered into one of their monthly sub packages, if I ever do decide to go back to RIFT.
While the game is outstanding as far as graphics, it is only a glorified version of WOW with a slight twist. Don't get me wrong, I love RIFT, and I would still be playing if I could afford multiple subscriptions, but by NO means its the BEST MMO to date.
RIFTS real weakness, if not major flaw is in its lore and storyline. These two concepts in a MMO is THE most important aspects of any MMO. For example: Guild Wars - Granted its an older game and inferior graphically compared to RIFT, TOR, & STO - Yet its lore and storyline is very compelling and I am looking towards GW2.
If you compare RIFT to WOW, TOR, and STO in regards to Lore - the latter 3 have it in spades
I played RIFT during the Beta and bought the collectors edition of the game. I subscribed to the game for the first 6 months of its existence. I believe I am still Grandfathered into one of their monthly sub packages, if I ever do decide to go back to RIFT.
While the game is outstanding as far as graphics, it is only a glorified version of WOW with a slight twist. Don't get me wrong, I love RIFT, and I would still be playing if I could afford multiple subscriptions, but by NO means its the BEST MMO to date.
RIFTS real weakness, if not major flaw is in its lore and storyline. These two concepts in a MMO is THE most important aspects of any MMO. For example: Guild Wars - Granted its an older game and inferior graphically compared to RIFT, TOR, & STO - Yet its lore and storyline is very compelling and I am looking towards GW2.
If you compare RIFT to WOW, TOR, and STO in regards to Lore - the latter 3 have it in spades
I'd partly agree with that - the setting is vital for an MMO, and that implies lore aka 'backstory'.
But the storyline itself? Not very important - good to have one that the player relates to and ideally gets interested in, but it can't be a major driver. (more specifically, the game should work even if the player already knows the storyline - in the case of SWTOR I have big question marks over it's future for precisely this reason).
Otherwise, I quite agree - the lore/storyline of Rift didn't hold my attention at all. They should have licensed a strong IP, or just picked a simple theme - and then added the quirky stuff in an expansion pack.
In some ways SWTOR is 'story over gameplay' and Rift is 'gameplay over story'. (but storys are 'eye of the beholder' stuff, if other people like/can tolerate rift's world then imho it's the best MMO on the market)
IMHO TOR isn't a very good MMO - Rift is the best MMO of 2012. Just the world of Rift seems based on the outcome of a brainstorming session with class of 9-year olds. "dragons and space aliens and robots and ponies and elves and time-travel and demons and sea monsters and ...."
TOR itself is a weak MMO, with a great storyline. But a storyline is not a good driver for an MMO - when the storyline ends, you've got a rather big problem (after running flashpoints twice, the spacebar starts to appeal - but if I press it, the only 'hook' of STO is lost...). I
Do other MMOs really offer more than that, t hough? I get the impression "endgame" in WoW for example is just raiding or PvP. So isn't it in the end a matter of creating enough of these "raids" and enough "PvP" material to support an endgame?
I think story has the advantage that it's always a reason to go back to a game. Let's see what will happen next to my hero and the world. LIke a new movie or TV episode.
Which is why people tend ot ignore Ground Combat Revamp or the Events when they call the last few months a "content draught".
One thing TOR gets both right & wrong (which is interesting for STO) is the 'ship interiors'. You often see your ship interior in TOR, something that doesn't happen in STO. On the other hand it takes 4 loading screens per planet change to support this, and it's basically a time sink - which isn't a good state of affairs. This is an area STO could/should improve, although TOR shows the pitfalls of it's specific approach.
Star Wars definitely needs transporters.
Another aspect worthy of note is that TOR crafting is done by companions - in STO terms perhaps the equivalent of moving crafting to the duty roster...
Yes. I could see this happen in STO, as well. There are already crafting elements in the DOFF system. I think it might work a lot better than the previous Crafting incarnations in STO.
Do other MMOs really offer more than that, t hough? I get the impression "endgame" in WoW for example is just raiding or PvP. So isn't it in the end a matter of creating enough of these "raids" and enough "PvP" material to support an endgame?
I think story has the advantage that it's always a reason to go back to a game. Let's see what will happen next to my hero and the world. LIke a new movie or TV episode.
Which is why people tend to ignore Ground Combat Revamp or the Events when they call the last few months a "content draught".
IMHO:
- storyline provides a compelling reason to do a quest.
- storyline does not provide a compelling reason to repeat a quest. (branching dialogs are interesting in this respect, you can't branch "that" many times)
The "end-game" is basically the dictionary definition of repetition. If the reason for someone to play a game is just storyline then it's difficult to see how the end-game is ever going to work.
I think SWTOR have got a lot right, but I fear there has been too much focus on storyline, and not enough on gameplay.
[STO space combat is fun without a plot, the same cannot be said of any form of SWTOR combat that I've played]
Yes. I could see this happen in STO, as well. There are already crafting elements in the DOFF system. I think it might work a lot better than the previous Crafting incarnations in STO.
Yep - it's also interesting to see SWTOR struggle with crafting - it is extremely difficult to see how to make a good crafting system.
i would never play SWTOR because there is no space content and i love the space ...
It's coming in an update down the road for sure. Devs already talked about it will be changed. MMOs can change you know. This game is not what it was at launch either. Space here and there is repetitive. But there if you ram into an asteroid it damages your ship. Here you can ram them all day and no damage. It just moves you sideways. Yeah, that's realistic.
Ground here is a joke. And was a bigger joke at launch so Cryptic put some work on it. Still a joke but not as big as it used to be. Thing is, MMOs can change so by what you said, see you in TOR is about 6 months or so. Just avoid the PvP servers because ganking is already running wild since some kiddies hit cap already. Or get in a good guild that will help you beat them down.
SWTOR is the only MMO besides City of Heroes/Villains that made me care about my characters. Any other MMO I've ever played feels/felt hollow in comparison.
SWTOR is the only MMO besides City of Heroes/Villains that made me care about my characters. Any other MMO I've ever played feels/felt hollow in comparison.
So that includes Cryptic's current games? I'm shocked because I just linked a thread where you were defending Cryptic to point out how we are not getting 2 BO slots per rank and Rehpic tried to say it didn't say that before. And they will change it now to cover it up.
It's coming in an update down the road for sure. Devs already talked about it will be changed. MMOs can change you know. This game is not what it was at launch either. Space here and there is repetitive. But there if you ram into an asteroid it damages your ship. Here you can ram them all day and no damage. It just moves you sideways. Yeah, that's realistic.
o_O. You're not seriously trying to compare the space combat in both, and imply that SWTOR's is better as it's got asteroid damage?? (it should be noted that whilst asteroids do damage you, debris doesn't nor do ship explosions - I haven't tried a ship collision either)
Thinking about it - is SWTOR space combat client-side or server side? it would make logical sense for the whole thing to be done client-side, and that would also explain the lack of even trivial co-op.
/shrug I'd love to be proved wrong, but BW have a lot of work to do on their core game, and no time to do it. I wouldn't expect to see any space improvements this year.
o_O. You're not seriously trying to compare the space combat in both, and imply that SWTOR's is better as it's got asteroid damage?? (it should be noted that whilst asteroids do damage you, debris doesn't nor do ship explosions - I haven't tried a ship collision either)
Thinking about it - is SWTOR space combat client-side or server side? it would make logical sense for the whole thing to be done client-side, and that would also explain the lack of even trivial co-op.
/shrug I'd love to be proved wrong, but BW have a lot of work to do on their core game, and no time to do it. I wouldn't expect to see any space improvements this year.
I said both are repetitive. I didn't say one over the other. I said while both are repetitive that at least you can't play bumper cars with asteroids like here. Did I hurt your feelings by saying both are not good? Sorry but neither is that great.
I said both are repetitive. I didn't say one over the other. I said while both are repetitive that at least you can't play bumper cars with asteroids like here. Did I hurt your feelings by saying both are not good? Sorry but neither is that great.
My feelings really aren't an issue in this - I'm not wedded to either game...
- the ship combat in STO is good possibly great - I'm not a certified game reviewer, but it drew me back here again despite the bits of the game that I didn't like (basically 'everything else').
- the ship combat in SWTOR is a joke. I bought KOTOR I and II, and do not regret either purchase, or the purchase of SWTOR - but the ship combat is something I'd expect to find on kongregate.
People have different opinions - I just have trouble understanding how anyone could seriously compare the 2 implementations of ship combat with a straight face.
SWTOR is a good game in it's own right, but it sure as hell isn't a remotely good space combat game, and it's quite unlikely to become that (for this year at least). STO was a bad game with a decent IP and good ship combat.
Feel free to disagree, I don't really take offence on forums.
It's coming in an update down the road for sure. Devs already talked about it will be changed. MMOs can change you know. This game is not what it was at launch either. Space here and there is repetitive. But there if you ram into an asteroid it damages your ship. Here you can ram them all day and no damage. It just moves you sideways. Yeah, that's realistic.
Ground here is a joke. And was a bigger joke at launch so Cryptic put some work on it. Still a joke but not as big as it used to be. Thing is, MMOs can change so by what you said, see you in TOR is about 6 months or so. Just avoid the PvP servers because ganking is already running wild since some kiddies hit cap already. Or get in a good guild that will help you beat them down.
You have a link to that on tjhe SWToR site as I hear players claiming the SWToR Devs saying this (a 3D Space Combat system) is 'coming' but it's NEVER on the SWToR Dev Tracker.
And after the kead Dev's comments on the Medium/High Resolution graphics situation, I don't know that I'd believe that much coming out of ANY SWToR Dev's mouth of late -- they make Cryptic appear to be saints by comparison.
My feelings really aren't an issue in this - I'm not wedded to either game...
- the ship combat in STO is good possibly great - I'm not a certified game reviewer, but it drew me back here again despite the bits of the game that I didn't like (basically 'everything else').
- the ship combat in SWTOR is a joke. I bought KOTOR I and II, and do not regret either purchase, or the purchase of SWTOR - but the ship combat is something I'd expect to find on kongregate.
People have different opinions - I just have trouble understanding how anyone could seriously compare the 2 implementations of ship combat with a straight face.
SWTOR is a good game in it's own right, but it sure as hell isn't a remotely good space combat game, and it's quite unlikely to become that (for this year at least). STO was a bad game with a decent IP and good ship combat.
Feel free to disagree, I don't really take offence on forums.
But the thing is you seem to not like that I said in both games it's repetitive. Take the scan 5 mission. It's to a point do you really need to search where the 5 things are? I can do those quickly without even wondering where the 5 will be on that map.
So yes, both are repetitive in space. Neither game is overly groundbreaking in the space department.
But there's some who pretend like the space here is perfect in every way because ground is not close to what TOR offers. So if anyone says anything less than "10 out of 10 stars", there are some who find offense for some bizarre reason.
I have actually found better quality in the Foundry missions in space than the non-Foundry ones. So when I say things like they are both repetitive, I'm not speaking on the Foundry because some in there are pretty good at least.
You have a link to that on tjhe SWToR site as I hear players claiming the SWToR Devs saying this (a 3D Space Combat system) is 'coming' but it's NEVER on the SWToR Dev Tracker.
And after the kead Dev's comments on the Medium/High Resolution graphics situation, I don't know that I'd believe that much coming out of ANY SWToR Dev's mouth of late -- they make Cryptic appear to be saints by comparison.
Well, instead the Devs here change stories though. It's a wash to be honest.
And I'll try to find it but it wasn't actually on their site where I saw it but a Q&A thing so need to find the transcript. I believe it was the one held by Best Buy but they have blended together as most seem to have covered the same stuff over and over and over and over, etc lol
The only way to experience SWTOR properly is to role Smuggler or Imperial.
Most republic storylines are awful--and provide little to know incentive to questing.
How many republic toons have you played to make such a statement like this and to put it across like it's a fact? I have 3 so far and loving the stories.
I think the imp agent is be best do far, so I can agree on that, but please don't tell people Republic stories suck when I am sure plenty of people are enjoying their republic story.
How many republic toons have you played to make such a statement like this and to put it across like it's a fact? I have 3 so far and loving the stories.
I think the imp agent is be best do far, so I can agree on that, but please don't tell people Republic stories suck when I am sure plenty of people are enjoying their republic story.
I've started one for each class.
The first ten hours with each story are what tells me whether I should invest in the rest of the class--and boy are most Republic classes boring. Don't even get me started on how boring the Jedi are--it's like they thought Qui Gon was the source material, not Old Ben Kenobi or Luke.
The first ten hours with each story are what tells me whether I should invest in the rest of the class--and boy are most Republic classes boring. Don't even get me started on how boring the Jedi are--it's like they thought Qui Gon was the source material, not Old Ben Kenobi or Luke.
Tropper class is a great story so I call butkiss on what you say above
That said, If your original post had said that "you" find the republic side boring, I would not have an issue, but for you tell people not to play the republic side and that "all" the stories are boring with no reason not to play, made it sound like what you were saying was a fact. You even try to back this up by "claiming" you have played 10 hours on each and know the story going to be boring.
Plenty of people are playing the rep side and are loving the stories.
Sorry, I don't want this to come out as an attack, but I am surprised that you have tried to put people off playing a whole faction.
Ok listen up cryptic your gonna have a run for your money with SWTOR now up and running.
Before STO fans start whining I'm a lifer here and I gotta say the last few months have been depressing to say the least..
SWTOR is releasing 1.1 patch on the 17th of this month with TWO new content missions..
SERIOUSLY?! I thought how the hell and why hasn't cryptic churned out stuff this quick with all the purchases that have been made via c-store and lifetime subs... the P2W TRIBBLE isnt what I'm reffering too either.
I got over 120 days remaining on TOR and I'm sorry to say I wont be loggin into STO at all during this farce of game as its present state..
these guys are churning out bug fixes like nobody's business, STO been active now for 2 years and there ARE still game breaking bugs that refuse to be fixed...
CMON cryptic your gonna loose this ship... EVEN CHRIS OFF STOKED HAS DEFECTED TO PLAY! Your number ONE podcast has ceased doing shows because of this epic epic farce.
Anyway I'm still sad to see alot of how things are handled by cyptic I had high hopes at the start but now I'm just meh....
Dude--it's not about playing. The storylines on the republic side are not my cup of tea (the Smuggler excepted).
My 45 Imperial Agent is my highest character because I preferred the storyline--and because Imperials know how to have fun.
Agreed. The Empire kicks butt. My agent is sadly neglected, as 2 of the guys I play with most of the time already role them. I am satisfied with the rather predictable, yet satisfying warrior story for now. Leaves me plenty of replay-ability for the future.
Comments
Maybe he meant best of the worst?
Nope - I guess I sound like a Trion fanboy, but I don't even have a subscription o_O... if you asked me which MMO was the best on the market, I'd say Rift without hesitation.
Technically, imho, the game blows everything else away. It's just that personally I can't stand the setting.
[I'm very much a 'systems' person, and I was simply blown away by what the devs have achieved there]
/shrug
I also like STO ship combat, and the duty roster is good fun. I'm also impressed with what the STO devs have achieved since release - although sadly it's partly an indicator of how early the game was released.
beta tested and played tor- it a decent game but its very repetitive after maxing out a character even if you level alts . and yet it more repetitive then STO surprisingly. plus the space combat on rails is ridiculous.
So again i find myself resubscribing STO again and this i'll be staying as gold member as this game is worth my $15 month more than any on the new mmo's out there.
I played RIFT during the Beta and bought the collectors edition of the game. I subscribed to the game for the first 6 months of its existence. I believe I am still Grandfathered into one of their monthly sub packages, if I ever do decide to go back to RIFT.
While the game is outstanding as far as graphics, it is only a glorified version of WOW with a slight twist. Don't get me wrong, I love RIFT, and I would still be playing if I could afford multiple subscriptions, but by NO means its the BEST MMO to date.
RIFTS real weakness, if not major flaw is in its lore and storyline. These two concepts in a MMO is THE most important aspects of any MMO. For example: Guild Wars - Granted its an older game and inferior graphically compared to RIFT, TOR, & STO - Yet its lore and storyline is very compelling and I am looking towards GW2.
If you compare RIFT to WOW, TOR, and STO in regards to Lore - the latter 3 have it in spades
I'd partly agree with that - the setting is vital for an MMO, and that implies lore aka 'backstory'.
But the storyline itself? Not very important - good to have one that the player relates to and ideally gets interested in, but it can't be a major driver. (more specifically, the game should work even if the player already knows the storyline - in the case of SWTOR I have big question marks over it's future for precisely this reason).
Otherwise, I quite agree - the lore/storyline of Rift didn't hold my attention at all. They should have licensed a strong IP, or just picked a simple theme - and then added the quirky stuff in an expansion pack.
In some ways SWTOR is 'story over gameplay' and Rift is 'gameplay over story'. (but storys are 'eye of the beholder' stuff, if other people like/can tolerate rift's world then imho it's the best MMO on the market)
- storyline provides a compelling reason to do a quest.
- storyline does not provide a compelling reason to repeat a quest. (branching dialogs are interesting in this respect, you can't branch "that" many times)
The "end-game" is basically the dictionary definition of repetition. If the reason for someone to play a game is just storyline then it's difficult to see how the end-game is ever going to work.
I think SWTOR have got a lot right, but I fear there has been too much focus on storyline, and not enough on gameplay.
[STO space combat is fun without a plot, the same cannot be said of any form of SWTOR combat that I've played]
SWTOR needs them, STO needs them removing o_O. It's a weird, weird mess.
Yep - it's also interesting to see SWTOR struggle with crafting - it is extremely difficult to see how to make a good crafting system.
It's coming in an update down the road for sure. Devs already talked about it will be changed. MMOs can change you know. This game is not what it was at launch either. Space here and there is repetitive. But there if you ram into an asteroid it damages your ship. Here you can ram them all day and no damage. It just moves you sideways. Yeah, that's realistic.
Ground here is a joke. And was a bigger joke at launch so Cryptic put some work on it. Still a joke but not as big as it used to be. Thing is, MMOs can change so by what you said, see you in TOR is about 6 months or so. Just avoid the PvP servers because ganking is already running wild since some kiddies hit cap already. Or get in a good guild that will help you beat them down.
So that includes Cryptic's current games? I'm shocked because I just linked a thread where you were defending Cryptic to point out how we are not getting 2 BO slots per rank and Rehpic tried to say it didn't say that before. And they will change it now to cover it up.
o_O. You're not seriously trying to compare the space combat in both, and imply that SWTOR's is better as it's got asteroid damage?? (it should be noted that whilst asteroids do damage you, debris doesn't nor do ship explosions - I haven't tried a ship collision either)
Thinking about it - is SWTOR space combat client-side or server side? it would make logical sense for the whole thing to be done client-side, and that would also explain the lack of even trivial co-op.
/shrug I'd love to be proved wrong, but BW have a lot of work to do on their core game, and no time to do it. I wouldn't expect to see any space improvements this year.
I said both are repetitive. I didn't say one over the other. I said while both are repetitive that at least you can't play bumper cars with asteroids like here. Did I hurt your feelings by saying both are not good? Sorry but neither is that great.
My feelings really aren't an issue in this - I'm not wedded to either game...
- the ship combat in STO is good possibly great - I'm not a certified game reviewer, but it drew me back here again despite the bits of the game that I didn't like (basically 'everything else').
- the ship combat in SWTOR is a joke. I bought KOTOR I and II, and do not regret either purchase, or the purchase of SWTOR - but the ship combat is something I'd expect to find on kongregate.
People have different opinions - I just have trouble understanding how anyone could seriously compare the 2 implementations of ship combat with a straight face.
SWTOR is a good game in it's own right, but it sure as hell isn't a remotely good space combat game, and it's quite unlikely to become that (for this year at least). STO was a bad game with a decent IP and good ship combat.
Feel free to disagree, I don't really take offence on forums.
You have a link to that on tjhe SWToR site as I hear players claiming the SWToR Devs saying this (a 3D Space Combat system) is 'coming' but it's NEVER on the SWToR Dev Tracker.
And after the kead Dev's comments on the Medium/High Resolution graphics situation, I don't know that I'd believe that much coming out of ANY SWToR Dev's mouth of late -- they make Cryptic appear to be saints by comparison.
But the thing is you seem to not like that I said in both games it's repetitive. Take the scan 5 mission. It's to a point do you really need to search where the 5 things are? I can do those quickly without even wondering where the 5 will be on that map.
So yes, both are repetitive in space. Neither game is overly groundbreaking in the space department.
But there's some who pretend like the space here is perfect in every way because ground is not close to what TOR offers. So if anyone says anything less than "10 out of 10 stars", there are some who find offense for some bizarre reason.
I have actually found better quality in the Foundry missions in space than the non-Foundry ones. So when I say things like they are both repetitive, I'm not speaking on the Foundry because some in there are pretty good at least.
Well, instead the Devs here change stories though. It's a wash to be honest.
And I'll try to find it but it wasn't actually on their site where I saw it but a Q&A thing so need to find the transcript. I believe it was the one held by Best Buy but they have blended together as most seem to have covered the same stuff over and over and over and over, etc lol
Most republic storylines are awful--and provide little to know incentive to questing.
How many republic toons have you played to make such a statement like this and to put it across like it's a fact? I have 3 so far and loving the stories.
I think the imp agent is be best do far, so I can agree on that, but please don't tell people Republic stories suck when I am sure plenty of people are enjoying their republic story.
I've started one for each class.
The first ten hours with each story are what tells me whether I should invest in the rest of the class--and boy are most Republic classes boring. Don't even get me started on how boring the Jedi are--it's like they thought Qui Gon was the source material, not Old Ben Kenobi or Luke.
The PvP forums are more jaded--especially since SWTOR has fewer warzones and lackluster open pvp zones (granted, Ilum > Otha).
You never played Trooper did you? Or played it properly?
Dude--it's not about playing. The storylines on the republic side are not my cup of tea (the Smuggler excepted).
My 45 Imperial Agent is my highest character because I preferred the storyline--and because Imperials know how to have fun.
Tropper class is a great story so I call butkiss on what you say above
That said, If your original post had said that "you" find the republic side boring, I would not have an issue, but for you tell people not to play the republic side and that "all" the stories are boring with no reason not to play, made it sound like what you were saying was a fact. You even try to back this up by "claiming" you have played 10 hours on each and know the story going to be boring.
Plenty of people are playing the rep side and are loving the stories.
Sorry, I don't want this to come out as an attack, but I am surprised that you have tried to put people off playing a whole faction.
Before STO fans start whining I'm a lifer here and I gotta say the last few months have been depressing to say the least..
SWTOR is releasing 1.1 patch on the 17th of this month with TWO new content missions..
SERIOUSLY?! I thought how the hell and why hasn't cryptic churned out stuff this quick with all the purchases that have been made via c-store and lifetime subs... the P2W TRIBBLE isnt what I'm reffering too either.
I got over 120 days remaining on TOR and I'm sorry to say I wont be loggin into STO at all during this farce of game as its present state..
these guys are churning out bug fixes like nobody's business, STO been active now for 2 years and there ARE still game breaking bugs that refuse to be fixed...
CMON cryptic your gonna loose this ship... EVEN CHRIS OFF STOKED HAS DEFECTED TO PLAY! Your number ONE podcast has ceased doing shows because of this epic epic farce.
Anyway I'm still sad to see alot of how things are handled by cyptic I had high hopes at the start but now I'm just meh....
Agreed. The Empire kicks butt. My agent is sadly neglected, as 2 of the guys I play with most of the time already role them. I am satisfied with the rather predictable, yet satisfying warrior story for now. Leaves me plenty of replay-ability for the future.