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Official Feedback Thread: Random Queues

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  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,946Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017



    Usually one or two bosses will drop a ring though they can drop other things, plus one from the chest, plus a fraction of one ring from seals and you end up with something on avarage between 2 and 3 pieces of salvage per run.

    The paingiver charts are irrelevant as far as I can tell they do not appear to impact drops. There are also ways to "game" pain giver charts so you can move up them faster while contributing much less to the completion of the dungeon.

    Is it because you were running some particular dungeons?
    e.g. I don't remember when my last time to get any gear from boss in egwd.
    For me, boss drop (gear drop and not peridot drop) is about once in 3 runs and not every one in the party would have that.
    For speed run, the boss could be killed before I have a hit on. :)
    Its prety consistant on drops. I usually run ETOS occasionally VT or ELOL though the drops are worth less there.
    You ran specific dungeons. With RQ, you won't have a choice. It could be CN, eGWD, eCC.
  • bratleyraybratleyray Posts: 292Member Arc User
    > @mordekai#1901 said:
    > The current design allows anyone level 12+ to queue for a leveling dungeon and receive the AD reward.
    >
    > New players already have a horrible experience with leveling dungeons because, in most runs, chase geared 70's down the hall with nothing to do but collect the reward at the end. This has come up many times, most recently here.
    >
    > There is no reason that a level 70 toon should receive AD to run a leveling dungeon.
    >
    > There are reasons they should not be given that incentive.
    > * It creates a horrible impression of the game for new players.
    >
    > * It deprives new players of the opportunity to explore their class in level-appropriate group content.
    >
    > * It will drive geared 70's that just want the AD bonus away from the random epic dungeon queue into the random leveling dungeon queue.
    >
    >
    > The long-term success of the game depends on the experience new players have in their first days and weeks. I strongly urge that level 70 toons not be allowed to random queue for leveling dungeons.
    >
    >
    > So if they block a 70 level person from queuing up on the leveling dungeons, and we block them from the epic because they fail to meet 100% of the content requirements of all the epic dungeons, where exactly do you expect them to queue?
    >
    >
    > IF... they simply dropped FBI and MSP from Random Queue, added it to the so far un-trumpeted Heroes' Accord queue "list" (which currently stands at ONE dungeon on its random chance) then there would literally be no need to HAMSTER about with anything.
    > No need to penalize sub 11K character on which dungeons they can be rewarded for playing, no need to slash the number of Dungeoneers shards they can earn...
    > BUT... as I keep hinting... this whole system is geared towards getting footfall into FBI and MSP.
    > Becaue no amount of Seals of The Brave are worth all this hastle.
    > So, keep all leveling Dungeons as they are.
    > Class Epic Dungeons as anything above leveling Dungeons, up to and including Castle Never.
    > Heroes' Accord is the "End Game" stuff.
    >
    > Lets also remember that MSP and FBI unlocks are just the beginning of unreasonably high entry requirements for Epic Random Queue.
    > When Something comes along that is higher requirement than TONG, then TONG and any dungeons that come between it and the new hardest content drop into Epic Random Queue and become the new minimum requirement for entry to ERQ.
    >
    > Whatever Mod 13 adds by way of dungeon unlock, will go into Heroes' Accord along with TONG and that will continue while the entry reqs are the same. But as soon as something harder comes along THAT becomes the new Heroes' Accord stand alone, and EVERYTHING beneath it drops into ERQ along with it's entry requirements.
    >
    > So if you think the current situation sucks... just wait till mod 14 or 15.
    >
    > Of course this is fine for end game characters who are currently at the top. They just need to keep up to speed with new content as it comes out, but for anyone playing catch up, like anyone who starts playing the game between now and then... the door will be like in one of those movie dream sequences where as fast as you run, the corridor keeps getting longer and the doorway keeps getting farther away. But we get rad from 1 skirmish, 1 level dungeon, 1 epic dungeon, 1 pvp, and 1 trial with new system.... so you can get 28k rad just for completion. Add in seals, salvage, etc and you can get more ad then current system. Dont forget new player and class bonus ad...
    >
    >
    >
    > If people would read the whole original post, it would help....
    >
    > Yes, particularly the bit about how that mass of wealth can only be gained by people who have 11k IL+ and have unlocked MSP AND FBI.

    How does one random que equate to a mass of wealth? Its one of 5, totaling 5k rad. Thats still 23k rad from the remaining 4. Plus seals, salvage, and bonuses.

    I understand not liking the change. But most of these negative posts are based on misinformation. Nothing you say now will get it changed by release... they will watch the numbers and make adjustments as necessary moving forward.

    Its really simple... group up with some friends/guildies, run one of each random que, profit.... everyone i run with already does our own form of random que as is. It gets boring running 2 etos and 2 esot daily... Only we dont make this much rad currently. I for one look forward to a lil more rad daily.

    I dont really care what dungeon i get. I dont care what skirmish, etc... we can beat them all. Its not about time playing either... its about having fun. We already do fbi and msp for fun... so how does this change anything for us? Only by paying is a lil more rad... so what, thats a positive...
    HB Fury SW, DO DC, GF (Full Tank)



    [The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)

  • bratleyraybratleyray Posts: 292Member Arc User
    Fun has no time limit... nor do i remember them saying that you will always get a long dungeon. Which ques pop easier now? Do you think this system is gonna change that? I dont. If one person ques a etos in normal que, the rest of the party is filled from random que. How many people que for a public fbi? Msp? Not very many. The random que will match you to which ever que needs your class role. I have a feeling we will still be getting etos and esot a lot in random que. Heck, you could probably run randoms all day and never catch a fbi or msp. If i que with 5 players the odds are higher. But its still what? 1 in 10 to get fbi? Im okay with those odds. Im just curious how long everone is gonna beat a dead horse... they already said its going live. Accept it or move on... put this energy into the bug thread. Ya know, the one they made time for...a whole month at that...
    HB Fury SW, DO DC, GF (Full Tank)



    [The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)

  • bratleyraybratleyray Posts: 292Member Arc User
    > @ravenskya said:
    > @bratleyray
    >
    > You and I won't be affected by this all that much. I'll be able to random queue, my scrub alts will have their dungeons unlocked, I'll be able to run the hero's accord blah blah.
    >
    > But it's my baby brother guild... our little gauntlet full of 9-10K's that are struggling - NONE of them have FBI unlocked. They are running CN trying to get the orcus shard... they are struggling through eCC for the hat, and now the whole lot of them are going to have to be degraded to under 70 dungeons to get AD. Sure after that they can go run what they want... but seriously?
    >
    > You can run CN but to get AD you have to run cloaktower? It's demeaning.

    Its one dungeon a day man... the rest of the time they could be farming salvage to just buy the shard after what? A week of farming? They can still run CN. They will still be able to run all the content as they do now. If they are struggling to complete something, why dont you and a couple buddies help them farm the hat...shirt... whatever they need... thats what we do currently. And it wont change after this change. Is it fair to gate rad behind all these requirements? Nope, but lots of changes have been made that arent fair to everyone. But we all still play... we all still advance... we all get what we want eventually...
    HB Fury SW, DO DC, GF (Full Tank)



    [The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)

  • ravenskyaravenskya Posts: 1,887Member Arc User
    @bratleyray

    But why should an 11K have to go into the leveling dungeons to earn AD and dungeoneer shards? How does that help anyone? Even if it IS only one dungeon a day?
    Founding Member of "Wrong Side of the Stronghold"
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  • bratleyraybratleyray Posts: 292Member Arc User
    Im almost 17k on several toons and i will be running one level dungeon every day for the rad. Why is it any different? Is it fun? Not really, but i gets me some rad... is running 2 etos and 2 esot fun now? Nope.... but i do it... hows it any different?
    HB Fury SW, DO DC, GF (Full Tank)



    [The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)

  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,946Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    ravenskya said:

    @bratleyray

    But why should an 11K have to go into the leveling dungeons to earn AD and dungeoneer shards? How does that help anyone? Even if it IS only one dungeon a day?

    It does not help anyone. It only helps a bit for those who chooses to do it after mod 12b for the unfortunate situation. For me, it is like dread ring/sharandar/portal/Biggine/... weekly AD quest. It is too easy, not challenging, it takes time but it gives you AD. It is your choice to choose if you want to do it.

    All these complains probably rehash N times already. The RQ will not fulfill dev's goal. It will be launched. We just need to find a way to deal with it or keep on complaining about something we complained N times by M people already.
  • mebengalsfan#9264 mebengalsfan Posts: 2,934Member Arc User
    The issue I see is this....

    There are plenty of players in the game that can go into eGWD, eCC, eCN, eToS, FBI, MSPC etc..but those players seriously do not have the ability to play at a high level to complete those instance. They maybe fine for MC or VT but not the T2 and early T3 dungeons.

    Also random Q is for the AD at the end. Not the AD from gear we get. I actually make more RAD from salvaging gear than actually running 2x a day. If we can still run the dungeons we want for gear in the treasure at the end, who cares. I know I will run what I want as long as I can still get the gear.

    If Random is the only way to run dungeons going forwards, than this is rubbish that needs to be fixed.

    It seems like mod 12b may result in a pretty big max exit some end game players due to unneeded added cost of upgrading enchantments and unneeded added time to their daily RAD runs.
  • majorcharvenakmajorcharvenak Posts: 737Member Arc User
    Maybe the devs can make some amends when RQs go live by returning the AD bonus for foundry quests? Probably wont happen but just throwing that out there.
    ~Shia~

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  • bratleyraybratleyray Posts: 292Member Arc User
    > @majorcharvenak said:
    > Maybe the devs can make some amends when RQs go live by returning the AD bonus for foundry quests? Probably wont happen but just throwing that out there.

    That may make amends to pc players... but wont help anyone on console...


    > @mebengalsfan#9264 said:

    >
    > If Random is the only way to run dungeons going forwards, than this is rubbish that needs to be fixed.
    >
    > It seems like mod 12b may result in a pretty big max exit some end game players due to unneeded added cost of upgrading enchantments and unneeded added time to their daily RAD runs.


    Its not the only way to run dungeons. It is however the only way to earn daily bonus rad for completing one of each type of random que. Honestly though, daily rad runs are almost as useless as weekly rad from campaigns... it adds up, i get that. But if ya just play for fun and farm what ya want, the salvage and seals gained will grant enough rad for your 36k daily as well. People just like to have something to complain about if it doesnt fit their perspective on how things should be. Can we all just let the devs develop their game as they envision it? Ya never know, ya might actually get more enjoyment out of it... that is after all their job and goal. To much negativity these days...
    HB Fury SW, DO DC, GF (Full Tank)



    [The Legendary Outlaws] (Guildhall 20)

  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,946Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017


    That said for it to be a random queve there needs to be an equal chance at landing in each of the dungeons in the queve. Everything that has been posted in this thread suggests that the intent is to have an equal chance at drawing each dungeon.

    That is not how I read it. My interpretation is it won't be a true random dungeon unless you RQ with a full party or everyone who is waiting for queue are doing RQ.

    Otherwise, the selection will depend on regular queue.
    It won't have a equal chance.

    e.g. say, players queue one by one with 15 seconds interval. To make it simply, it does not factor in class requirement.
    P1: RQ
    P2: RQ
    P3: FBI
    P4: RQ
    P5: RQ
    P6: RQ
    P7: RQ
    P8: RQ
    P9: CN
    P10: FBI
    P11: RQ
    P12: RQ
    P13: RQ
    P14: RQ
    P15: RQ
    P16: RQ
    P17: RQ
    P18: RQ
    P19: RQ
    P20: RQ

    I expect P1 to P5 will go to FBI.
    P6 to P9 and P11 will go to CN.
    P10 and P12 to P15 will go to FBI.
    P16 to P20 will go to a true random dungeon.

    If P3, P9 and P10 chose ETOS instead, I expect P1 to P10 will all go to ETOS. P11 to P20 will go to 2 true random dungeons.
  • rynardmrynardm Posts: 78Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017


    That said for it to be a random queve there needs to be an equal chance at landing in each of the dungeons in the queve. Everything that has been posted in this thread suggests that the intent is to have an equal chance at drawing each dungeon.

    That is not how I read it. My interpretation is it won't be a true random dungeon unless you RQ with a full party or everyone who is waiting for queue are doing RQ.

    Otherwise, the selection will depend on regular queue.
    It won't have a equal chance.

    e.g. say, players queue one by one with 15 seconds interval. To make it simply, it does not factor in class requirement.
    P1: RQ
    P2: RQ
    P3: FBI
    P4: RQ
    P5: RQ
    P6: RQ
    P7: RQ
    P8: RQ
    P9: CN
    P10: FBI
    P11: RQ
    P12: RQ
    P13: RQ
    P14: RQ
    P15: RQ
    P16: RQ
    P17: RQ
    P18: RQ
    P19: RQ
    P20: RQ

    I expect P1 to P5 will go to FBI.
    P6 to P9 and P11 will go to CN.
    P10 and P12 to P15 will go to FBI.
    P16 to P20 will go to a true random dungeon.

    If P3, P9 and P10 chose ETOS instead, I expect P1 to P10 will all go to ETOS. P11 to P20 will go to 2 true random dungeons.
    That is my only concern with RQ also. I really can't stand running the skt stuff. If I random and get those, I will abandon them and take the hit. I do them occasionally just for the dungeoneers shards, but even then it sometimes takes forever to find a suitable group that can actually complete them.

    Some of the other comments I've seen are from folks talking about gear scores. I started a TR about 3 months ago and he is already over 10k and almost to 11k. As soon as the new refinement system is in place it won't take long at all to get it up high enough to run some of the tougher ones successfully and actually contribute significantly to the success of the run. I run dungeons for the equipment mostly so the AD's I get are more from that then then the bonus at the end. I run IG regularly to help out my toons and also members of my guild with the companion only stuff. I just don't really see the sky falling in this case though I might be wrong. Some of you might have been here long enough for the original release of the elemental evil mod. If you were, then just compare this to that and maybe it will lesson your anxiety. Half my guild quit playing within 3 months of that and the disappearance of all but 3 of the epic dungeons. I'm just going to see how everything works together before I make my final decision. I don't think it's going to be as bad as my first knee-jerk reaction told me it is going to be.

    As an after thought I'm going to play Devil's advocate: For the folks that posted about the gateway going bye-bye and it's all the bots fault, I simply ask you this. Have any of you reported as spam the people posting in the chat or sending in-game mail about selling AD's and items for $$ on the cheat sites? I don't do it as often as I should either so doesn't that make it partially our fault too? Go ahead and blast me for saying it, it's just an opinion though.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,379Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    ravenskya said:

    @bratleyray

    But why should an 11K have to go into the leveling dungeons to earn AD and dungeoneer shards? How does that help anyone? Even if it IS only one dungeon a day?

    Sadly, the official reason given is... Seals of the Brave.

    THIS specifically is the reason... in response to my asking why FBI and MSP couldn't be included in Heroes' Accord. Thereby pinning CN as the benchmark gateway for epic random queues at 8.4K, and no interminable cmapaign unlock on SKT or CA.
    asterdahl said:


    This is something we have absolutely considered. One reason we'd ideally like to avoid this is that hero's accord will provide a bonus cache of seals of the brave. We're not so much concerned that if you may end up in Fangbreaker and be rewarded with seals of the brave (because you needed to meet the requirements for the Tomb regardless) but we do think it will be seriously frustrating that if you want to earn the best daily seals of the brave reward to progress your character, you will queue for a random queue to get the 30 daily seals and may end up in a dungeon that naturally gives no seals of the brave.

    On the other hand, we have no plans to break out a third epic dungeon random queue as this complicates rewards even further, muddles up the queues, and makes the daily commitment for those looking to finish all of their random queues even larger.

    One thing that's very difficult to keep in mind here is that meeting the 11k requirement is no longer as difficult as it was when many of you met it, and it will be even less so when 12B goes live with the refinement adjustments. When we look at the distribution of player's main characters by item level, the average item level is actually higher than we expected even before Module 12. This applies to future concerns about what happens when Tomb of the Nine Gods and Module 13's content move down to the epic dungeon queue, and something new is put into hero's accord. By that point, reaching 12k will have become significantly easier as well.

    None of this is to say that we're not still considering making adjustments. All of your feedback is absolutely appreciated.

    So the reason no one below 11K IL who hasn't opened FBI and MSP is allowed access to Epic Random Queues is that FBI and MSP don't award Seals of The Brave...
    That's it, that's why they aren't deemed worthy of the same reward for the exact ame dungeon.
    Something has to give so that some people don't have to run FBI and MSP and become upset by not hitting the daily limit on Seals of The Brave. Epic Random Queue can be as upsetting, annoying, and frustrating as it needs to be so that high end gamers can "Random" queue for TONG and be sure of hitting Seals of The Brave.

    So, basically, high IL people who want seals of the brave from a random queue are more important than mid IL players who want RAD from an epic dungeon.

    They can figure out a way to have players get two tiers of RAD reward (some/none) based on whether they queue Random or standard, but haven't the ken to do exactly the same with FBI and MSP regarding Seals of The Brave. i.e no seals for standard queueing, and some seals for Random Queueing.

    I'd be interested to hear why THAT solution is impossible.
    It might also make people WANT to play those two fetid stools if Seal of The Brave were awarded via Heroes' Accord... just saying... in case the real reason for all this is that no one is playing FBI and MSP and someone has decided they need to...


    But since its so easy to hit 11k and soon 12k we shouldn't be concerned. Just join a level 20 guild with all the boons and you;re practically there.
    Don't bother starting new guilds, or building on existing ones you have already invested time and effort into. It's all about the points and how fast you can make yourself available to fill up those dungeon queues.

    (P.S... going into leveling Dungeons for Dungeoneers shards will only apply to sub L70 characters. The only way a L70 can get them from dungeons will be through Epic Random Queue... but don't worry if you don't qualify for ERQ you only lose a few, cos they are increasing the amount you can get from random skirmishes. Not enough to offset the amount lost form not being able to get them from Dungeons, but that's not important when Seals of The Brave are at risk... besides those who can enter ERQ can get many more now, so that helps... THEM...)
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,946Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User


    The word "eventually" is interesting here it implies the posibility of some kind of timer being used for the public queve. meaning that if not enough pugs queve for EGWD in a certain time frame then the rest of the party is drawn from some unfortunates in the random queve.

    I kind of considered the "eventually" part. That was why in my example, I said "players queue one by one with 15 seconds interval". May be 15 seconds is not long enough.

    My point was RQ will not be truly random because the regular queue situation can influences it. It may be big and it may be small.

  • namelesshero347namelesshero347 Posts: 1,889Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    Since one of the goals of RQ is to minimize queue time, I'd imagine that means the "random" people would just be diverted to what is currently in demand by people who direct queues. So it's not so "random" as in RNG unless there is currently no direct queue people waiting or for a full pre-made party.

    Even then, another goal of RQ is to have more diverse content being run. I'd imagine there is some weight to dungeon selection depending on how often has recently been done. Probably eToS would almost never be drawn by random RNG process.
  • mordekai#1901 mordekai Posts: 1,379Member Arc User
    edited October 2017
    I asked for elaboration on this earlier and the way it works is that only if you are part of a full group will it be random.

    The queue that has been waiting the longest gets priority when you random queue.

    Say, there is a sub 11k guy queuing for EToS and another guy queueing the old fashioned way for FBI. Both are DPS. You are a qualified for ERQ Tank... and join the ERQ. You join ALL the queues. From MC to MSP

    Next another two DPS join ERQ... so there are three of you in ALL the queues, and four in FBI and EToS, waiting for a healer.
    IF a cleric joins ERQ then either EToS or FBI will fire, NO random determination. What will decide that is which of those two orginal guys started queuing first. That's how random it is.

    IF the same cleric instead joins the old fashioned way and selects VT, and CC, then you and the two ERQ DPS are now in queues for FBI and MSP each with a third DPS, (waiting for a cleric) and in VT and CC with the cleric (waiting for another DPS), and all the others together as a threesome. (I wonder if that word will get HAMSTERED???)

    If another DPS now joins ERQ then that will match with you, the two other ERQ DPS and the Cleric to fire either CC or VT...

    Now... THIS is the point where I would like some further clarification.

    In the above situation, is their a hierachy of dungeons, or does a genuine random factor send you to VT or CC?
    OR... as I suspect may be the case... is there a pecking order for which dungeons would fire first in the above scenarion?

    Basically, if you are a DPS jumping into it's going to be hit and miss. In fact it will likely feel a lot more random than for support roles because the queues beneath FBI and MSP will fire quicker; this is obvious because all those sub 11K characters who won't be using ERQ will be queuing almost exclusively for them.
    This means the elusive support roles from sub 11K will go exclusively to everything BUT FBI and MSP...

    As a conequence, people who queue the old fashioned way for FBI and MSP will be waiting longer... and as a result, guess where the ERQ support toons are more likely to end up.

    So you know those guys who stand there in PE and SOMI begging to be let into a group for FBI?
    THEY will be the ones who drive your Cleric to the ERQ dance.
    That 11.5K guy who really really really needs to complete MSP and won't shut up about it in every chat channel there is... they'll be the one deciding where your GF goes on his Magical Mystery "Random" dungeon.

    Also, as the standard for Heroes' Accord gets higher, the whole notion of "All queues firing faster" is so blatantly far from its goal that it begs the question, "Did anybody actually put any real thought into it?"

    When you are using a random, or any other, system to fill Sets (Let's call them "Dungeon Queues") with Factors (Let's call them "Characters") in order to increase the speed with which the sets fill... increasing the number of Sets and decreasing the number of Factors, (i.e adding dungeons and reducing eligible characters) actually dilutes the system and has what scientists would explain as,
    "The exact opposite effect, you dumbass! I'm a brainy scientist with a computer... but a four year old with an Etch-A-Sketch could tell you that much... what are you thinking????"
  • rafaeldarafaelda Posts: 596Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017
    I will just wait to see if they will lower FBI difficulty or move it to the same place as MSP....

    I personally think move it would be better because, i noty only the case that FBI "wont work" as same tear as MC and VT, the question is that it will also block the other (not unlocked by campaing) dungeons for all new LV 70...
    Post edited by rafaelda on
  • motu999#9953 motu999 Posts: 95Member Arc User
    I seldom post on the forums, but random queues are a terrible idea, from many perspectives.

    If RQ were an addon to the current system, it might actually be a quality of life improvement (in a rather small way) and actually fulfil the goals set by the devs.

    However, none of the (openly) stated goals will be met. Neither will they improve quality of life, nor will they encourage a more variable game play. Also, RQs will cut the average rAD earnings of *new players* by 50-70%, e.g. from say 10.000 per day to 3000-5000. But maybe this is working as intended, because *old players* will be able to earn even more rAD, leaving the average amount of rAD earned by all players nearly constant.

    The only (rather lately admitted) reason, for which random queues have been designed, namely to "hapmer bots" will not work.

    In fact, I have asked myself, why did not the devs implement RQs as an ADD-ON to the current system. Why did they chose a complete replacement, completely restructuring the way rAD are earned? The only halfways sensible reason is, that they wish to smash bots with a new system. This, however, will not work as intended:

    Even if a bot program can only run CT, what hinders a bot program to
    - RQ and quit RQ when CT does not show up?
    - bots can create an unlimited number of accounts. Cycling through the accounts, until a dungeon shows up that the bot program can run, does not hurt them. Even if only every tenth dungeon is doable by the bot, it probably takes 2-3 min to RQ, quit, RQ, quit, RQ, quit and then do the 12-15 min run. At the very best this reduces the efficiency of bots by 20%. Not more. On the long run the bots will adopt. They will even thrive, because RQs have the undesired consequence that it actually increases their customer base (new players, lured by the promises of cheap advancement, see my comments below).

    On the other hand, RQs will significantly hurt new players. RQs effectively reduce the rAD earnings of new players to 20-30% of their old earnings, because
    - only one run of a type per day
    - lesser rAD earned for levelling dungeons
    - only RQ that a new player can use are leveling dungeons (neither qualifies for skirmishes, nor for eRQ because of the unlocks)

    At the end of the day, RQs will not hinder bots, but due to the fact that bots act in similar ways (as far as rAD earnings are concerned) as new players, the new players will be hit hardest.

    As many stated, old players that have everything unlocked are not affected. In fact, they might even benefit from RQs. So what will happen:

    - RQs widen the already huge gap between new and old players, making catchup for new players almost impossible
    - RQs will frustrate new players and turn them away, when they realize that their only chance to earn some rAD efficiently is to spend 10.000 ZEN for all the unlocks, or play catchup for 6-months (depending on play time per day), until they have unlocked skirmishes and epic RQ. Once the have unlocked them, why should they run RQs, as there are far more efficient ways for a high IL char to earn rAD via multiple salvage runs.
    - RQs annihilate all the hard work put into private queues. All problems that have been solved via private queues (quitting, random replacement, random group composition, trolling, sudden disconnects, etc.) will raise their ugly heads again.

    I could add several points, that will show how qualitity of life will decline with RQs. Unfortunately, I am almost 100% certain that the devs will not listen. Very likely, they will "monitor and make adjustments" when things go live, not with the intent to improve the experience and qualitity of life of the players, that try to cope with RQs, but penalizing the players even more. For instance, what will Cryptic do, when they see many players queuing for a RQ multiple times, quitting when they do not want the dungeon thrown at their feat (cannot, are not able, have not the time). Will they allow quitting, or will they flag these players as bots?
  • ladypeanut66ladypeanut66 Posts: 78Member Arc User
    I see it clear that this RQ system is 1) a blatant cash-grab for new players and 2) a way of getting players into FBI and MSP no matter what (because why would they change the rewards to make the dungeons more demanded?).

    And @motu999#9953 don't forget that 2 or 3 modules ahead, T9G will be considered as easy as FBI, MSP or MC, so the wall for newbies will become larger. Really, why trying so hard to fight bots while the damage is mostly being done to players? The same happened with the gateway, and it will happen to many other things, I fear.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,946Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017

    I see it clear that this RQ system is 1) a blatant cash-grab for new players and 2) a way of getting players into FBI and MSP no matter what (because why would they change the rewards to make the dungeons more demanded?).

    And @motu999#9953 don't forget that 2 or 3 modules ahead, T9G will be considered as easy as FBI, MSP or MC, so the wall for newbies will become larger. Really, why trying so hard to fight bots while the damage is mostly being done to players? The same happened with the gateway, and it will happen to many other things, I fear.

    How do you see this as a cash grab to new player?

    New player below level 70 can do level RQ to earn AD.
    New player who reaches level 70 can still do ONE level RQ dungeon (vs you need to do 2 today) to earn same amount of AD.
    New player who has just reached level 70 cannot do Epic RQ. They can still do level RQ to earn AD. i.e. they are not cut off from AD earning. They need to spend extra 10 minutes to do a level RQ dungeon they may not want to do to get the AD. Then, they can do the epic dungeon of their choice.
    Will this new RQ make new player upset? Probably. I just don't see the cash grab. If you are upset, will you pay?
  • sorcha#9865 sorcha Posts: 32Member Arc User

    I've being playing this game for a little over a year my main is a templock with an item level of 10700k...I've being doing some reading the class has being nerfed and is not wanted in the higher item level dungeons...

    If I also understand is there is no plans at this time to make this class wanted in these dungeons by giving them a boost in stats...

    and if you think SW don't need a boost I also have a CW that I leveled up....in the short time that I have had this character my dps is now about the same as my SW but only has a item level of 9k

    My main has only just unlocked I think they call FBI....I have not being able to unlock the others....so after this goes live I will not be able get into a RQ because I have not unlocked these harder campaign that my toons are not ready for....

    even my main is little more than a AD farming toon now even with my item level no wants my toon for anything...not for the harder stuff anyway....

    Now lets talk about cragmire Dungeon (master)....I have never finished it ever...just to be clear....ever....

    Many players do not know how to finish this dungeon....most of the time people rage quit this dungeon.....

    what about Gray wolf den (master)...The AoE is insane new players will not finish this...when I finished this dungeon it was because I changed from My dps build to my Healing templock....after that we finished it and it was easy....

    I would actually suggest to boost the crappy blue and green gear that new players seem to use...if only because they cant get anything better.....and maybe get into epic dungeons the requirements to get into epic dungeons has gone up since they changed the how they do the item level....

    If I'm reading this right after this is live I will be only able skim and the easy dungeons.....and that is it....

    so far to me this is not looking good....
  • maxzius#3795 maxzius Posts: 66Member Arc User
    > @plasticbat said:
    > I see it clear that this RQ system is 1) a blatant cash-grab for new players and 2) a way of getting players into FBI and MSP no matter what (because why would they change the rewards to make the dungeons more demanded?).
    >
    > And @motu999#9953 don't forget that 2 or 3 modules ahead, T9G will be considered as easy as FBI, MSP or MC, so the wall for newbies will become larger. Really, why trying so hard to fight bots while the damage is mostly being done to players? The same happened with the gateway, and it will happen to many other things, I fear.
    >
    > How do you see this as a cash grab to new player?
    >
    > New player below level 70 can do level RQ to earn AD.
    > New player who reaches level 70 can still do ONE level RQ dungeon (vs you need to do 2 today) to earn same amount of AD.
    > New player who has just reached level 70 cannot do Epic RQ. They can still do level RQ to earn AD. i.e. they are not cut off from AD earning. They need to spend extra 10 minutes to do a level RQ dungeon they may not want to do to get the AD. Then, they can do the epic dungeon of their choice.
    > Will this new RQ make new player upset? Probably. I just don't see the cash grab. If you are upset, will you pay?


    Putting the RQs behind a SKT wall just as the SKT campaign unlock in the store becomes available looks like a blatent cash grab.
  • plasticbatplasticbat Posts: 5,946Member, NW M9 Playtest Arc User
    edited October 2017


    If I'm reading this right after this is live I will be only able skim and the easy dungeons.....and that is it....

    You probably understand that already but just in case:

    You can still do whatever Epic dungeon you want. You don't have to do RQ to enter Epic dungeon.
    The difference is you will not earn AD from Epic dungeon without doing RQ.

    You still can (and very capable to) do ONE 3 man level RQ dungeon per day to match the same amount of AD you can earn right now doing 2 Epic dungeons. No, you don't get more than AD from level dungeon.
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