Nine points (maxed out training) in each of these skills Starship Operations, Sensors and Sensor Array.
A Deflector Array that adds to Sensors and Sensor Array.
Science consoles that boost Sensor Array.
Maxed out Aux power (125 points), which may need EP to Aux, an Aux Battery or Engineering captain's EPS power transfer skill to achieve 125, unless you have some Efficient BoFFs and/or gear that boosts aux power enough to get that extra 25 points. Such as engineering consoles that boost Aux power.
Activating science team of any level boosts Starship Operations by 18-30 points depending on which level of ST you use.
These should get you a passive detection range of around 8-10 km depending on how many points you can boost these three skills to and how much Aux power the cloaked ship is running.
These three skills also boost the Science captains' Sensor Scan ability and the Jam Targeting Sensors BoFF power.
Starship Operations boosts all Science BoFF powers, except Science Team, which uses the Science Team skill from the T1 column in its place.
Science Ships (any Federation player regardless of captain's class)
Target Subsystems - All 4 subsystems, use of these will knock out shields, engines, aux or weapons. Proper timing and you can defeat that enemy before it can re-cloak.
With my current set-up on Tribble, my Fed Engineering RA-UH1 captain in the plain old T5 Deep Space Science Vessel with an unbuffed 120 aux power, skill stats of 18 Starship Ops, 61 sensors and 52 Sensor Array I have a passive stealth detection rating of 295.4. This is with Astrometrics consoles installed since I didn't have any Sensor Array Consoles. I am not sure exactly how this translates to detection range in km as I'd need to test it again to get up to date info, but to give an example, if Ii drop aux power down to the minimum setting, which is 58 / 25 for me, the stealth detection rating drops to 143.3, that's 48% of what it is at 120 / 100 aux power, so I lose over half my passive detection by dropping the power by 62 points. If i boost aux power the additional 5 points to hit the cap of 125 /100, my stealth detection rating increases to 307.5, or a 4% increase over the unbuffed 120 / 100 aux power.
My Klingon MG1 is a Science officer and his Sensor Scan III only adds another 5.4%. So a Fed Scientist in the same DSSV with the same 125 aux power and skill levels could expect to have an active stealth detection rating of approximately 324.1.
To get more data for you, I gathered all the data samples i needed from several characters and made 4 of the +18 Sensor Array consoles (Multi-Spectral Scanner Mk IX) and installed them, this boosted my Sensor Array skill up to 124. When my Aux power is buffed to hit the 125 cap, this brought my passive stealth detection rating to 360.00. So for an increase in skill of 72 points I gained another 52.5 stealth detection rating points when at 125 aux power. Taking the consoles off 1 at a time while at 120 aux power, I see a 12.6 point stealth detection rating change per 18 points of Sensor Array skill, so you can see how much of a difference the right equipment can make.
Does this answer you question adequately? I hope so, because I had to spend the last couple of hours getting my character onto Tribble, respeccing him to get back to this set-up to get all these numbers for ya.
Sensors skill also boosts one of the best anti-cloak and shield breaking powers there is, Charged Particle Burst. Why is it one of the best? With enough points into Astrometrics and maxed aux, it can take out a nice chunk of shields on all 4 facings of up to 50 enemies enemy ships within 5km. This is why CPB is one of my favorite anti-cloak and PBAoE shield killing skills. If you couple CPB with Photonic Shockwave you can do some serious hull damage to those ships you hit with CPB, if it drops their shields. Plus PS shoves them all back a short distance. This combo is great for dealing with fighters, mines and yes, those Escorts that like to get in close. Not only does PS shove them back a short distance, it also tends to turn their ship, thus getting those cannons facing away from you.
Below is from an older post post of mine, but with updated info.
Science Bridge Officers
1) Charged Particle Burst (T2+)- disables cloaking devices for a duration (from 15 to at least 23 seconds that I know of thus far) depending on captain skills, equipment and aux power setting as well as dealing a decent amount of shield damage to all facings on up to 50 enemies within 5km. All levels share a 30 second global cool-down with a 45 sec recharge. At my Engineer's current rank of RA-UH1, with an unbuffed 120 aux power, skill stats of 18 Starship Ops, 61 sensors and 112 Astrometrics, my BoFF's CPB2 deals 3399 shield damage to all facings up to a max of 50 enemies within 5km and prevents them from engaging battle cloak for 12 seconds. *Hint* Optimal range for cannons is less than 5k, so those cannon jockeys want to be within 5k to attack, thus putting themselves in range of your CPB blast.
2) Gravity Well (T3+) - slows/stops all enemies within range, drags them all towards it, deals kinetic damage and reveals cloak. With proper timing can prevent the enemy from running out of CPB range.
Unfortunately marks and a damned fine casual fleet (imo): KIA ) are they only way I was able to fit my vessel fighting up to LG.
I still fondly remember our leader (Tkang) asking on a daily basis,
" Roach! what rank are you?"
" I'm just past Com G6 doing right now"
" Well do more PvP and get up to LG. We need more officers"
"Yes Sir! Killing more feds to climb the ladder. Sir."
Ah war stories.:) I did months of that cause I only have limited time to play.
Funny thing is I climbed so fast to LG (in SP points) that ended up borking my ability to gain Marks of Honor.
Couldn't get them and only had greens and the rare blue to use in pvp for the longest time. Whoa fun that both fun and eye grindy.
Lol yeah beeing an old beta player here i remember when they made the kdf open i been kdf ever since the good times and the bad times , seems we are geting a lot more new recruits kdf side dont matter f they are fed alts we need the numbers and hopefully when IF we get territory control they wanna be on the side wich is the underdogs due to numbers :P i personally cant wait to fight the masses of feds
is one of the things I wish the Devs were capable of doing when the release a major new ability in STO.
Like Barclay ( yes he is my favorite) did in that one episode where he was reprogramed by the advanced race that explored without traveling (what happened to them I wonder) and took over the E with the direct Nueral interface.
" Star fleet records do not know how to build such a device" , computer ( I do miss her)
" Fine, No problem. Here is how you build it." Barclay (devs)
In all honesty there is a huge gap between people who random/regularly PvP and the top notch pre-made PvP fleets. Unless you fly with fleets like TSI, SOB, QEW, LORE, and a few others that I either can't remember how to spell or have slipped my mind (you know who you are) , your perspective is flawed in trying to reason out PvP balance.
Too many times these threads get overrun with opinions from people who are not necessarily bad players, but just have an over-inflated sense of their own abilities and a lack of experience in what the real state of PvP is because they never see it first hand. The world of getting rolled 15-0 by klinks everytime you join a match is a far cry from the reality of a pre-made challenge match, and unless you are participating at this level you really don't have the experience to make informed comments.
We need to get some devs logged on and invited into a few pre-made challenge matches to observe and take notes, so they can see first hand what the real state of balance is.
Ah remember the days of explorations zones for equipment, then off to PvP when it popped for a few (13) quick matches, back to exploration misions for better equipment, oh a side mission, off to explorations zones for equipment, then off to PvP when it popped for a few (13) quick matches, back to exploration misions for better equipment, off to explorations zones for equipment, then off to PvP when it popped for a few (13) quick matches, back to exploration misions for better equipment, I'm tired and going to bed days.
Things have gooten much better since then, improvements are still needed.
Those aren't even the good old days.
The good old days were pre-exploration nebulas when KDF had glorified DSEs and PvP only.
in my case, i was speaking from what cryptics point of view may be, and trying to appease the majority of the player base, which by fact, is fed
i have a klink character myself, but i mainly play as fed
i never try to put myself on a pedestal. i hate it when other people do that, and i also hate hypocrites
Why exactly do you mainly play your fed character(s)? Could it be the serious lack of content on the KDF side? I know this is why I keep going back to my fed characters and why most of my fleet did the same thing, until they gave up waiting on the promised content and left the game.
In all honesty there is a huge gap between people who random/regularly PvP and the top notch pre-made PvP fleets. Unless you fly with fleets like TSI, SOB, QEW, LORE, and a few others that I either can't remember how to spell or have slipped my mind (you know who you are) , your perspective is flawed in trying to reason out PvP balance.
Too many times these threads get overrun with opinions from people who are not necessarily bad players, but just have an over-inflated sense of their own abilities and a lack of experience in what the real state of PvP is because they never see it first hand. The world of getting rolled 15-0 by klinks everytime you join a match is a far cry from the reality of a pre-made challenge match, and unless you are participating at this level you really don't have the experience to make informed comments.
We need to get some devs logged on and invited into a few pre-made challenge matches to observe and take notes, so they can see first hand what the real state of balance is.
I disagree that PuG PvP is any less valid than Pre-made challenge matches.
If the game is well balanced than it should be just as balanced in PuG vs PuG matches as in pre-made vs pre-made. (note "balanced" does not mean both sides will win with the same frequency, just that both sides have the capacity to win with the same frequency)
I disagree that PuG PvP is any less valid than Pre-made challenge matches.
Pugging not invalid when held against Premade matches. It just that when a team somehow materilizes (like in the old KDF days) it could seem unbalanced if you were on the receiving end.
Those random moments of cohesion in a PuG team do seem farther apart now than back then.
Unfortunately marks and a damned fine casual fleet (imo): KIA ) are they only way I was able to fit my vessel fighting up to LG.
I still fondly remember our leader (Tkang) asking on a daily basis,
" Roach! what rank are you?"
" I'm just past Com G6 doing right now"
" Well do more PvP and get up to LG. We need more officers"
"Yes Sir! Killing more feds to climb the ladder. Sir."
Ah war stories.:) I did months of that cause I only have limited time to play.
Funny thing is I climbed so fast to LG (in SP points) that ended up borking my ability to gain Marks of Honor.
Couldn't get them and only had greens and the rare blue to use in pvp for the longest time. Whoa fun that both fun and eye grindy.
Roach ... you are the next Klingon Idol. Always enjoy yer posts.
I disagree that PuG PvP is any less valid than Pre-made challenge matches.
If the game is well balanced than it should be just as balanced in PuG vs PuG matches as in pre-made vs pre-made. (note "balanced" does not mean both sides will win with the same frequency, just that both sides have the capacity to win with the same frequency)
I never said it was any more or less valid. As long as everyone has access to the same box of tools to work with pre-mades will always have an advantage. The only way to ensure that both sides have the capacity to win with the same frequency is to do your balance testing using the most experienced players.
Your post seems to imply that there is some level of balance that can be achieved where a PUG group can consistenly be competetive with a pre-made. That is just an impossiblility. There is no balance for practice, teamwork, and communication, or I should say the only balance for those things is doing them yourself.
The OP is approaching the problem from an informed standpoint. with the goal of the discussion being a factional balance, not a cure for the discrepencies between PUGs and Pre-mades. Testing and balancing by using the best teams in the game ultimately helps everyone in PVP, but there should be no illusion that it will change the win loss stats of part time PVPers.
Cryptic has proven time and time again, they are catering to the Federation and they are trying to justify it by the lack of people playing klingons, which they are entirely responsible for due to lack of content, ships, features, episodes, and the disparity in gameplay. It will only get worse, there are so few of us now that if they did get around to adding Romulans the Klingon Faction will only get hit even harder.
P.S. and for you future Romulan players...its a trap. Stick with Federation gameplay.
It'll suck spam wise yes but I think since they don't really follow you (never noticed it) that they may not be all bad since most carry PH still as a matter of course. Also any per spam you spawn is usually targeted first, which is how I countered them PvE wise.
The moment will tell though. That first PvP fight will be fun hours after the last mission goes live.
I wonder if the Breen trans mine torp on TB mines will sinc well together?
is one of the things I wish the Devs were capable of doing when the release a major new ability in STO.
Like Barclay ( yes he is my favorite) did in that one episode where he was reprogramed by the advanced race that explored without traveling (what happened to them I wonder) and took over the E with the direct Nueral interface.
" Star fleet records do not know how to build such a device" , computer ( I do miss her)
" Fine, No problem. Here is how you build it." Barclay (devs)
For the Empire!! In the name of Kahless!! The void of space will fill with the debris of all.
Roach, You warmonger!
*hides his batleth, sword, few dozen grenades, portable cannon....*
Nine points (maxed out training) in each of these skills Starship Operations, Sensors and Sensor Array.
A Deflector Array that adds to Sensors and Sensor Array.
Science consoles that boost Sensor Array.
Maxed out Aux power (125 points), which may need EP to Aux, an Aux Battery or Engineering captain's EPS power transfer skill to achieve 125, unless you have some Efficient BoFFs and/or gear that boosts aux power enough to get that extra 25 points. Such as engineering consoles that boost Aux power.
Activating science team of any level boosts Starship Operations by 18-30 points depending on which level of ST you use.
These should get you a passive detection range of around 8-10 km depending on how many points you can boost these three skills to and how much Aux power the cloaked ship is running.
...
Your list for improving cloak detection is accurate, but 8-10km without sensor scan is a pipe dream. 4-5k at best for pure passive detection if the cloaker has nothing invested in the aux skills, more likely around 3-4km, and only for science ships, everyone else is useless for passive detection.
I did a lot of hard testing when the Nebula was on tribble, and a cloaked ship that sits outside 5km is pretty safe until sensor scan is used, but even then, that is no guarantee to detect them beyond about 7km.
Your list for improving cloak detection is accurate, but 8-10km without sensor scan is a pipe dream. 4-5k at best for pure passive detection if the cloaker has nothing invested in the aux skills, more likely around 3-4km, and only for science ships, everyone else is useless for passive detection.
I did a lot of hard testing when the Nebula was on tribble, and a cloaked ship that sits outside 5km is pretty safe until sensor scan is used, but even then, that is no guarantee to detect them beyond about 7km.
problem is , eeaven 10k away its to late to detect someone especially in pvp cause things go a lot faster there.... and by the time ur like 4-5km away ur usually dead or half dead depending on the player in the ship...
I agree with HurleyBird 100% Fed balls always cry that klingons are OP that is not the fact. The Fact us that Klingon Players have to study and analyize and experiment more to build ships and abilities that are the most efficient to use in PvP. If you are a Fed and you keep getting POPPED in PvP then learn to play as a team instead of crying that we are over powered yet you feds still seem to forget that the best PvP teams in the game are fed based players. Its not our fault you go into a match and dont work as a team. These fed ships continue to get buffed as we continue to get nurf'ed every single patch. This is an unfair balance and i also came to remember that D. Stahl himself has said he did not want the B'rel in the game knows its completely bugged and say he will not fixed the problem. So does that not say that cryptic is bias. Now while my associate may disagree with me the lean in ship abilities hull strength and turn rates show it How was the varanus at launch made to have the worse turn rate in the game then when you add turn rate to the ship you drop the hull its a crusier and has almost as little hull as the BoP how does that match up also the raptor which is an escort has more hull than a crusier WTH is up with that cryptic you continue to TRIBBLE on klingons if you didnt want a klingon faction then you shouldnt have put it in thats why no one plays klingon side cause you continue to nerf us down to nothing why not just eliminate factions altogether. Just have a bunch of fed balls running around in war games thinking they are good at a game that they have no idea of the game mechanics. But then people will be getting banned for being acused of cheating. IF NOT FOR THE FACT I BOUGHT A LIFE TIME MEMBERSHIP A LONG TIME AGO I WOULD HAVE CANCELED MY SUBSCCRIPTION MONTHS AGO.
Cryptic has proven time and time again, they are catering to the Federation and they are trying to justify it by the lack of people playing klingons, which they are entirely responsible for due to lack of content, ships, features, episodes, and the disparity in gameplay. It will only get worse, there are so few of us now that if they did get around to adding Romulans the Klingon Faction will only get hit even harder.
P.S. and for you future Romulan players...its a trap. Stick with Federation gameplay.
Your argument is overused and false.
Even if both factions were balanced for content when the game launched the Klingon faction wouldn't be anywhere near 50% of the players. With more content it might maybe be double the 12% Dan gave once. The majority of Star Trek fans are Federation fans. Also, in the same way the majority of MMO players are not serious PvPers. Yet both Klingons and PvPers are very vocal minorities that constantly want more. While more PvE content is always good, adding in more PvP maps just threatens to dilute the already small PvP population.
And as a future Romulan player, I expect my faction to be even smaller then the Klingons as far as population goes. I also don't expect it to happen this year since the Klingons still need a lot of leveling content.
Your list for improving cloak detection is accurate, but 8-10km without sensor scan is a pipe dream. 4-5k at best for pure passive detection if the cloaker has nothing invested in the aux skills, more likely around 3-4km, and only for science ships, everyone else is useless for passive detection.
I did a lot of hard testing when the Nebula was on tribble, and a cloaked ship that sits outside 5km is pretty safe until sensor scan is used, but even then, that is no guarantee to detect them beyond about 7km.
Sensor scan 3 only boosts the detection range by 5.4%, so if the passive range maxed out as i showed can now only reach about 5km, then it was severely nerfed.
Even if both factions were balanced for content when the game launched the Klingon faction wouldn't be anywhere near 50% of the players. With more content it might maybe be double the 12% Dan gave once. The majority of Star Trek fans are Federation fans. Also, in the same way the majority of MMO players are not serious PvPers. Yet both Klingons and PvPers are very vocal minorities that constantly want more. While more PvE content is always good, adding in more PvP maps just threatens to dilute the already small PvP population.
And as a future Romulan player, I expect my faction to be even smaller then the Klingons as far as population goes. I also don't expect it to happen this year since the Klingons still need a lot of leveling content.
can i have your magic 8 ball and next weeks lotto number cos you sure know a hell of alot about what others do and what will and wont happen.
Even if both factions were balanced for content when the game launched the Klingon faction wouldn't be anywhere near 50% of the players. With more content it might maybe be double the 12% Dan gave once. The majority of Star Trek fans are Federation fans. Also, in the same way the majority of MMO players are not serious PvPers. Yet both Klingons and PvPers are very vocal minorities that constantly want more. While more PvE content is always good, adding in more PvP maps just threatens to dilute the already small PvP population.
And as a future Romulan player, I expect my faction to be even smaller then the Klingons as far as population goes. I also don't expect it to happen this year since the Klingons still need a lot of leveling content.
Your argument is overused and false.
When launching a two faction game one does not set itself up for failure by not providing a two faction game as advertised with access to equal content in both PVE/PVP. Its very simple. people go where the content is. On top of that, it was much easier to level as a Federation player , easily reaching cap in 3 days or less while klingons had nothing but PVP to level up with and that exp was nerfed because it was fine for the Federation to reach max cap quickly but not so for the Klingon players. And lets not forget the lack of ships, uniforms, and the base essentials that are still missing one year later. You know the old saying, "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence." In STO, its true.
Thread closed. Thank you all for your feedback, I'll make sure it gets passed on. However, it appears that we are not able to have a civil discussion about this topic at the moment.
Comments
These should get you a passive detection range of around 8-10 km depending on how many points you can boost these three skills to and how much Aux power the cloaked ship is running.
These three skills also boost the Science captains' Sensor Scan ability and the Jam Targeting Sensors BoFF power.
Starship Operations boosts all Science BoFF powers, except Science Team, which uses the Science Team skill from the T1 column in its place.
Science Ships (any Federation player regardless of captain's class)
Target Subsystems - All 4 subsystems, use of these will knock out shields, engines, aux or weapons. Proper timing and you can defeat that enemy before it can re-cloak.
With my current set-up on Tribble, my Fed Engineering RA-UH1 captain in the plain old T5 Deep Space Science Vessel with an unbuffed 120 aux power, skill stats of 18 Starship Ops, 61 sensors and 52 Sensor Array I have a passive stealth detection rating of 295.4. This is with Astrometrics consoles installed since I didn't have any Sensor Array Consoles. I am not sure exactly how this translates to detection range in km as I'd need to test it again to get up to date info, but to give an example, if Ii drop aux power down to the minimum setting, which is 58 / 25 for me, the stealth detection rating drops to 143.3, that's 48% of what it is at 120 / 100 aux power, so I lose over half my passive detection by dropping the power by 62 points. If i boost aux power the additional 5 points to hit the cap of 125 /100, my stealth detection rating increases to 307.5, or a 4% increase over the unbuffed 120 / 100 aux power.
My Klingon MG1 is a Science officer and his Sensor Scan III only adds another 5.4%. So a Fed Scientist in the same DSSV with the same 125 aux power and skill levels could expect to have an active stealth detection rating of approximately 324.1.
To get more data for you, I gathered all the data samples i needed from several characters and made 4 of the +18 Sensor Array consoles (Multi-Spectral Scanner Mk IX) and installed them, this boosted my Sensor Array skill up to 124. When my Aux power is buffed to hit the 125 cap, this brought my passive stealth detection rating to 360.00. So for an increase in skill of 72 points I gained another 52.5 stealth detection rating points when at 125 aux power. Taking the consoles off 1 at a time while at 120 aux power, I see a 12.6 point stealth detection rating change per 18 points of Sensor Array skill, so you can see how much of a difference the right equipment can make.
Does this answer you question adequately? I hope so, because I had to spend the last couple of hours getting my character onto Tribble, respeccing him to get back to this set-up to get all these numbers for ya.
Sensors skill also boosts one of the best anti-cloak and shield breaking powers there is, Charged Particle Burst. Why is it one of the best? With enough points into Astrometrics and maxed aux, it can take out a nice chunk of shields on all 4 facings of up to 50 enemies enemy ships within 5km. This is why CPB is one of my favorite anti-cloak and PBAoE shield killing skills. If you couple CPB with Photonic Shockwave you can do some serious hull damage to those ships you hit with CPB, if it drops their shields. Plus PS shoves them all back a short distance. This combo is great for dealing with fighters, mines and yes, those Escorts that like to get in close. Not only does PS shove them back a short distance, it also tends to turn their ship, thus getting those cannons facing away from you.
Below is from an older post post of mine, but with updated info.
Science Bridge Officers
1) Charged Particle Burst (T2+)- disables cloaking devices for a duration (from 15 to at least 23 seconds that I know of thus far) depending on captain skills, equipment and aux power setting as well as dealing a decent amount of shield damage to all facings on up to 50 enemies within 5km. All levels share a 30 second global cool-down with a 45 sec recharge. At my Engineer's current rank of RA-UH1, with an unbuffed 120 aux power, skill stats of 18 Starship Ops, 61 sensors and 112 Astrometrics, my BoFF's CPB2 deals 3399 shield damage to all facings up to a max of 50 enemies within 5km and prevents them from engaging battle cloak for 12 seconds. *Hint* Optimal range for cannons is less than 5k, so those cannon jockeys want to be within 5k to attack, thus putting themselves in range of your CPB blast.
2) Gravity Well (T3+) - slows/stops all enemies within range, drags them all towards it, deals kinetic damage and reveals cloak. With proper timing can prevent the enemy from running out of CPB range.
3) Tractor Beams - Slow target, prevents turning and prevents cloaking
Qa'pla!!
Also I can never tell if I'm one of the "nuaghty" one when someone makes a post as yours. OCD makes me ask.
Lol yeah beeing an old beta player here i remember when they made the kdf open i been kdf ever since the good times and the bad times , seems we are geting a lot more new recruits kdf side dont matter f they are fed alts we need the numbers and hopefully when IF we get territory control they wanna be on the side wich is the underdogs due to numbers :P i personally cant wait to fight the masses of feds
is one of the things I wish the Devs were capable of doing when the release a major new ability in STO.
Like Barclay ( yes he is my favorite) did in that one episode where he was reprogramed by the advanced race that explored without traveling (what happened to them I wonder) and took over the E with the direct Nueral interface.
" Star fleet records do not know how to build such a device" , computer ( I do miss her)
" Fine, No problem. Here is how you build it." Barclay (devs)
For the Empire!! In the name of Kahless!! The void of space will fill with the debris of all.
This statement speaks volumes.
In all honesty there is a huge gap between people who random/regularly PvP and the top notch pre-made PvP fleets. Unless you fly with fleets like TSI, SOB, QEW, LORE, and a few others that I either can't remember how to spell or have slipped my mind (you know who you are) , your perspective is flawed in trying to reason out PvP balance.
Too many times these threads get overrun with opinions from people who are not necessarily bad players, but just have an over-inflated sense of their own abilities and a lack of experience in what the real state of PvP is because they never see it first hand. The world of getting rolled 15-0 by klinks everytime you join a match is a far cry from the reality of a pre-made challenge match, and unless you are participating at this level you really don't have the experience to make informed comments.
We need to get some devs logged on and invited into a few pre-made challenge matches to observe and take notes, so they can see first hand what the real state of balance is.
Darn you OCD.
Those aren't even the good old days.
The good old days were pre-exploration nebulas when KDF had glorified DSEs and PvP only.
Why exactly do you mainly play your fed character(s)? Could it be the serious lack of content on the KDF side? I know this is why I keep going back to my fed characters and why most of my fleet did the same thing, until they gave up waiting on the promised content and left the game.
I disagree that PuG PvP is any less valid than Pre-made challenge matches.
If the game is well balanced than it should be just as balanced in PuG vs PuG matches as in pre-made vs pre-made. (note "balanced" does not mean both sides will win with the same frequency, just that both sides have the capacity to win with the same frequency)
lol- I called those "the Golden days" in another post.
And they were, evern though I got only a taste of them before exploration hit the scene.
Pugging not invalid when held against Premade matches. It just that when a team somehow materilizes (like in the old KDF days) it could seem unbalanced if you were on the receiving end.
Those random moments of cohesion in a PuG team do seem farther apart now than back then.
Roach ... you are the next Klingon Idol. Always enjoy yer posts.
I thought Ban was a setting on your phaser? Or is the setting so awesome that it literally has to have its own phaser? :P
I never said it was any more or less valid. As long as everyone has access to the same box of tools to work with pre-mades will always have an advantage. The only way to ensure that both sides have the capacity to win with the same frequency is to do your balance testing using the most experienced players.
Your post seems to imply that there is some level of balance that can be achieved where a PUG group can consistenly be competetive with a pre-made. That is just an impossiblility. There is no balance for practice, teamwork, and communication, or I should say the only balance for those things is doing them yourself.
The OP is approaching the problem from an informed standpoint. with the goal of the discussion being a factional balance, not a cure for the discrepencies between PUGs and Pre-mades. Testing and balancing by using the best teams in the game ultimately helps everyone in PVP, but there should be no illusion that it will change the win loss stats of part time PVPers.
P.S. and for you future Romulan players...its a trap. Stick with Federation gameplay.
*hides his batleth, sword, few dozen grenades, portable cannon....*
lol.yeah that was a cool episode.
Your list for improving cloak detection is accurate, but 8-10km without sensor scan is a pipe dream. 4-5k at best for pure passive detection if the cloaker has nothing invested in the aux skills, more likely around 3-4km, and only for science ships, everyone else is useless for passive detection.
I did a lot of hard testing when the Nebula was on tribble, and a cloaked ship that sits outside 5km is pretty safe until sensor scan is used, but even then, that is no guarantee to detect them beyond about 7km.
problem is , eeaven 10k away its to late to detect someone especially in pvp cause things go a lot faster there.... and by the time ur like 4-5km away ur usually dead or half dead depending on the player in the ship...
Your argument is overused and false.
Even if both factions were balanced for content when the game launched the Klingon faction wouldn't be anywhere near 50% of the players. With more content it might maybe be double the 12% Dan gave once. The majority of Star Trek fans are Federation fans. Also, in the same way the majority of MMO players are not serious PvPers. Yet both Klingons and PvPers are very vocal minorities that constantly want more. While more PvE content is always good, adding in more PvP maps just threatens to dilute the already small PvP population.
And as a future Romulan player, I expect my faction to be even smaller then the Klingons as far as population goes. I also don't expect it to happen this year since the Klingons still need a lot of leveling content.
Sensor scan 3 only boosts the detection range by 5.4%, so if the passive range maxed out as i showed can now only reach about 5km, then it was severely nerfed.
can i have your magic 8 ball and next weeks lotto number cos you sure know a hell of alot about what others do and what will and wont happen.
Your argument is overused and false.
When launching a two faction game one does not set itself up for failure by not providing a two faction game as advertised with access to equal content in both PVE/PVP. Its very simple. people go where the content is. On top of that, it was much easier to level as a Federation player , easily reaching cap in 3 days or less while klingons had nothing but PVP to level up with and that exp was nerfed because it was fine for the Federation to reach max cap quickly but not so for the Klingon players. And lets not forget the lack of ships, uniforms, and the base essentials that are still missing one year later. You know the old saying, "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence." In STO, its true.
An attempt at humor?
And what makes you the judge on whether Klingons are OP? because you die a lot?
Thanks,
Stormshade