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STOP HATING KLINGONS - a different kind of 'rage' post!

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Wasn't meant as an insult. Most of what Nagus says is pretty reasonable. Actually all of it. And I am not complaining about them being vague, in fact it's good - it just misguided people into thinking Romulan faction is right up coming.

    Well, if they're smart they WON'T release the Romulan faction piecemeal. They'll release it at he point it has a similar content level and feature level that the KDF has (whenever the Devs announce they feel the KDF faction is at the point where they announce they've started work on the Romulan faction.)

    If they do a piecemeal build up of a faction again, I have a feeling the Romulan faction fans will explode worse than the KDF fans did.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Armsman wrote: »
    Well, if they're smart they WON'T release the Romulan faction piecemeal. They'll release it at he point it has a similar content level and feature level that the KDF has (whenever the Devs announce they feel the KDF faction is at the point where they announce they've started work on the Romulan faction.)

    If they do a piecemeal build up of a faction again, I have a feeling the Romulan faction fans will explode worse than the KDF fans did.

    Agree, but I still think Romulans should be simply added as playable ships + race for both klinks and feds. Lot simplier, most art is there already and the "gimme Dderidex and sexy romulan female boffs" crowd will be satisfied.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    hurleybird wrote: »
    • Klingon's still don't have efficient boffs putting us at a distinct disadvantage against federation players who have ships full of them. This in particular is something that should have been addressed *weeks* after launch.

    I agree with most of your points you listed. But while Klingons can only get an efficient boff from the C-Store (or Amazon preorder), the idea that these are somehow insanely good or worth tens of millions of energy credits is completely unfounded (unless you're the min/maxer type who will do anything for the most infinitesimal bonus).

    The most boffs any ship can have is 5, so a Fed could have at most 4 more than you, giving them potentially a +20 efficiency advantage if they have nothing but efficient officers. There seems to be a lot of misinformation on what that means -- it does not correspond 1:1 with power settings. The net effect of +20 efficiency is something like:

    25 power setting: +4.5
    50 power setting: +2.5
    75 power setting: +0
    100 power setting: +0

    If you run a 100/50/25/25 setup then this corresponds to +0/+2.5/+4.5/+4.5. Is that worth 200 million EC?
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    But this buzz is artificial! It was created by several very very vague remarks by Cryptic people + a few threads "I want this and that for Romulan faction" from several forum... let's say known people, such as the Nagus, giving people impression that Romulan faction is right behind the corner.

    What would help klinks? PVP system, that would make difference - territory control, matches, that would inconvenience the losing side etc.

    I'm not going to dig it up, but there is a quote directly from Dstahl that says his desire is to have the Romulans in next year. Sorry nothing artificial about that.

    Two things would help the KDF, a better PvE level progression. Something the Devs are working on. And their own form of "diplomacy corps". I don't actually mean a Diplo Corps in KDF clothing, I mean they need a house system that mimics some of the Diplo corps gameplay and alternative advancement. With this in place than the Diplo Corps and the Klingon House system can be expanded on to create a territorial control game play that utilizes both PvE and PvP competition.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    If you run a 100/50/25/25 setup then this corresponds to +0/+2.5/+4.5/+4.5. Is that worth 200 million EC?

    For someone who is serious about PvP? Sure, it's worth any amount of money. What else are you going to spend it on?

    that's 2.5 + 4.5 + 4.5 is 11.5 higher power settings. That's kind of huge, seeing as an engineering console only gives +7 power at the highest level, so this is like having another 1.65 engineering consoles. Again, that's a pretty substantial advantage for the lucky few who have that -- and those lucky few are all feds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    hurleybird wrote: »
    This isn't you're typical thread bashing Cryptic for lack of Klingon PvE content. As a PvPer I don't much about PvE except for leveling alts. This is about the obvious anti-Klingon bias that Cryptic has been displaying when it comes to PvP. This bias becomes very clear when looking at what has been happening with ships.
    1. Due to whining on the forum, B'rel was nerfed into uselessness. When it came to live it was useless and laughable. Now people point and laugh and roll their eyes at people who bring this pathetic vessel into combat. We know the B'rel sucks, Cryptic knows the B'rel sucks, yet they do nothing to balance it!
    2. Not so with the galaxy-x which is being buffed into awesomeness.
    3. In comparison, the Carrier suffered a trinity of massive nerfs all at the same time. The Nerf that shows the most bias is hanger efficiency -- when sci powers were changed to work off of aux power, *75* power was chosen to give the base effect. For whatever reason, the aux power needed to attain the old base rate for launching fighters is *100*. Why the inconsistency? whimsically picking numbers out of thin air or just hating on Klingons some more?
    4. The Varanus had it's turn rate increased but lost hull points to compensate.
    5. But the various Fed science ships gained hull or had their turn rate increased without losing the other. The Nebula got both and suffered no negative counter balancing. Why?
    6. Implementation of the passive science vessel skill showed massive bias IMHO. Between the Vulcan, Intrepid, and Nebula science ships the feds have the best sci ships in the game. Klingons flying the Varanus are a very rare bunch.
    7. Despite having subsystem targeting and obviously being meant as a science vessel at the start of the game, carriers are no longer sci ships now as they don't get sensor analysis. Again, more illogical inconsistency on the part of Cryptic that always seems to be unfavorable for Klingons!
    8. Excelsior vs. Vorcha. These two ships are clearly meant to be analogous, but the handling of both again shows a bias against Klingons. Unlike other ships, neither loses a console slot. The Vorcha gets a nice turn rate while the Excelsior gets an amazing boff selection thanks to the LT. Cmdr tac slot (having different cmdr. and lt cmdr. slots is always a superior set up to having two of the same because of redundancies) Yet, for no apparent reason the Vorcha loses a good chunk of hull and a device slot while the Excelsior doesn't.
    9. Klingon's still don't have efficient boffs putting us at a distinct disadvantage against federation players who have ships full of them. This in particular is something that should have been addressed *weeks* after launch.
    10. The best ability in the game, the Intrepid's ablative armor was deemed by the vocal PvP community and Cryptic themselves to be OP. But instead of fixing it, they lowered both the duration *and* the cooldown. This actually made things worse, since 15 seconds is more than enough time to heal and resist-up a team member and the more often this can be done the more powerful the ability becomes.
    11. Last but not least -- the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak, the Advanced escort MVAM version. The boff layout (cmdr. tac, lt. tac, ensign tac, lt eng, lt. cmdr sci) basically gives it 90% of the versatility of the Bop without any of the drawbacks. This ship has way more hull than a BoP, more weapons than a BoP, more boff stations than a BoP, more tactical consoles than a BoP, and a kickass ability that can take up a much less valuable sci slot (at the least it should NEED to take up a tactical slot). This ship in it's current iteration is by far the best escort in the game, with nothing else coming close. The feds now have the best cruisers, sci ships, AND escorts in the game and it reeks of imbalance

    Now to be fair, I don't think Cryptic really hates Klingons. I think that there might be subtle bias in place that Cryptic themselves might not even realize that makes them act the way they do. Whether it be certain clueless players whining about Klingon OPness, or the devs themselves playing more as feds, or just plain 'ole wanting to appease the majority, it's here, it's real, and I've had enough. I don't think you can read and comprehend this post without realizing that there is something horribly wrong here, and I hope this thread opens a great number of eyes to what the Klingon community has had to put up with all of this time.

    Granted I agree that the Klingon's could use a little design love, but here's how I look at it. As a side note I do have 2 LT General Klink's as well as several low level alts.

    The Klingon faction in my eye's was designed as a PvP faction. To level strictly by way of PvP. Some people didn't like that so they added some PvE. Perhaps some of the best story content second to the weekly series in game. Would I like to see more? Sure... Has Cryptic given us the tools to make things better? Yes! The Foundry will improve the Klingon PvE content 10 fold, I have no doubt. I'm really looking forward to it.

    Now on to PvP. I think everyone needs to stop comparing what the Klingons have to the Feds. It's different and it's not meant to be a direct comparison. If you really look at it, do the feds have a universal boff ship? no. Do they have carrier/shuttle launching pet ships? no. Every PvP game I enter either from my Klingon or my Fed character the Klingons always had the upper hand unless you came into a "good" fed premade like TSI or many of the good teams I've seen in the KT PvP League. Did the Klingon's need a nerf? Sure. Do the Feds need a nerf? Sure. The bigger thing I think that affects the Klingon Faction is that no one plays it other than premade groups, so in turn pugs on the Fed side tend to steer clear of FvK pvp. There's really no easy way to fix this until more PvE content gets added or something that would draw others to the Klingon faction. The other thing I see is when i'm on my Klingon no one queues for KvK pvp. Why is this? Klingon's don't want to fight other Klingon's? Perhaps there isn't enough interest or premade groups who wish to fight each other. Perhaps the best solution here is to aid others in leveling up and by queuing for these things at lower level so they have some PvP to do.

    Balance isn't something that is going to get fixed overnight. Things get adjusted, tweaked, and fixed as they can get around to them. As you mentioned the Galaxy-X is getting some love, but lets face it. That ship's been the laughing stock of the STO world since it was released. Does it deserve all the changes its getting? YES! Does that mean that every other ship in the game needs to be tweaked right now? No. Cryptic or any other game developer doesn't have that kind of manpower or resources. Should they look at them all eventually? Sure. It's an MMO. Things change, and things change often, that's why we pay a monthly subscription so that things can be addressed as needed, and we can continue to get new and improved content added to the game. Really take a look at what the Klingon faction has been getting lately. Crafting, PvE, race specific ships, sector space zones opened up, new weapons, and Klingon specific shuttles. No one can say that the Klingon's aren't getting any attention because they are. It may not be exactly what you as a player want to see, but it doesn't mean they aren't going to look at PvP in the long run either. Is it as much as the Feds? No, but at least they are looking at ways to improve it instead of letting it all slide.

    I don't think in any way that just because one side is currently getting some attention means that they are abandoning the other. Give it time and change is sure to follow. Dan Stahl has said on many occasions that they continue to work on the Klingon faction and things are getting better, but its only going to happen over time. I can agree with them working on the Feds first because it does have the largest player base. It would be like Adobe suddenly deciding to stop supporting Microsoft Windows and move everything to Linux. Would it be good for the Linux Community? Sure, but it wouldn't be the smartest of ideas speaking form a business standpoint. It's the same way with every company. Focus on what you are good at and what draws the most attention and your products will succeed.

    I do enjoy the Klingon faction and will gladly help in any way I can. Personally i'll be making a bunch of missions for Klingon's in the Foundry, simply because its a tool I can use to better the situation as a whole. Personally I don't think a lot of people really play the game for PvP anyway and would rather play the PvE content, which is most likely why not a lot of people play the Klingon's as they are a PvP based faction first and foremost.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Varrangian wrote: »
    I'm not going to dig it up, but there is a quote directly from Dstahl that says his desire is to have the Romulans in next year. Sorry nothing artificial about that.

    Two things would help the KDF, a better PvE level progression. Something the Devs are working on. And their own form of "diplomacy corps". I don't actually mean a Diplo Corps in KDF clothing, I mean they need a house system that mimics some of the Diplo corps gameplay and alternative advancement. With this in place than the Diplo Corps and the Klingon House system can be expanded on to create a territorial control game play that utilizes both PvE and PvP competition.

    Man in house pvp fighting over current KDF planets etc would rock and would lead to a lot of ingame diplomacy as well great idea :P
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Phibrizzo wrote: »
    but you are saying that because i was either not born, or because i personally didnt care for Enterprise, that I am less of a Star Trek fan?

    No, Im saying that being the fan does not give one the right to lord it over other fans of the same genre as if my fandom ( Klingon) is any less important than your fandom (federation) within a game designed to attract all types of players.
    This has been a constant pedistal from which several fans have preached and I'm tired of it.
    Phibrizzo wrote: »
    you have no right to say that. what you personally believe does not give you the right to tell me what i am or what i can or cannot do.

    Yet that is exactly how the KDF and fans of the Klingon aspect of the genre have been treated by some fans of the federation. We have been told to accept our place and to learn to live with it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    No, Im saying that being the fan does not give one the right to lord it over other fans of the same genre as if my fandom ( Klingon) is any less important than your fandom (federation) within a game designed to attract all types of players.
    This has been a constant pedistal from which several fans have preached and I'm tired of it.



    Yet that is exactly how the KDF and fans of the Klingon aspect of the genre have been treated by some fans of the federation. We have been told to accept our place and to learn to live with it.

    Yeah i hate beeing threated like i am worth less then a fed player eaven when we all pay the same to play the same game just on diffrent sides , we all want the same thing a better Startrek mmo so bickering about when each side ask for some improvements or highlights something that is lacking is actually stupid.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    No, Im saying that being the fan does not give one the right to lord it over other fans of the same genre as if my fandom ( Klingon) is any less important than your fandom (federation) within a game designed to attract all types of players.
    This has been a constant pedistal from which several fans have preached and I'm tired of it.

    i do see your point

    in my case, i was speaking from what cryptics point of view may be, and trying to appease the majority of the player base, which by fact, is fed

    i have a klink character myself, but i mainly play as fed

    i never try to put myself on a pedestal. i hate it when other people do that, and i also hate hypocrites
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    hurleybird wrote: »
    This isn't you're typical thread bashing Cryptic for lack of Klingon PvE content. As a PvPer I don't much about PvE except for leveling alts. This is about the obvious anti-Klingon bias that Cryptic has been displaying when it comes to PvP. This bias becomes very clear when looking at what has been happening with ships.
    1. Due to whining on the forum, B'rel was nerfed into uselessness. When it came to live it was useless and laughable. Now people point and laugh and roll their eyes at people who bring this pathetic vessel into combat. We know the B'rel sucks, Cryptic knows the B'rel sucks, yet they do nothing to balance it!
    2. Not so with the galaxy-x which is being buffed into awesomeness.
    3. In comparison, the Carrier suffered a trinity of massive nerfs all at the same time. The Nerf that shows the most bias is hanger efficiency -- when sci powers were changed to work off of aux power, *75* power was chosen to give the base effect. For whatever reason, the aux power needed to attain the old base rate for launching fighters is *100*. Why the inconsistency? whimsically picking numbers out of thin air or just hating on Klingons some more?
    4. The Varanus had it's turn rate increased but lost hull points to compensate.
    5. But the various Fed science ships gained hull or had their turn rate increased without losing the other. The Nebula got both and suffered no negative counter balancing. Why?
    6. Implementation of the passive science vessel skill showed massive bias IMHO. Between the Vulcan, Intrepid, and Nebula science ships the feds have the best sci ships in the game. Klingons flying the Varanus are a very rare bunch.
    7. Despite having subsystem targeting and obviously being meant as a science vessel at the start of the game, carriers are no longer sci ships now as they don't get sensor analysis. Again, more illogical inconsistency on the part of Cryptic that always seems to be unfavorable for Klingons!
    8. Excelsior vs. Vorcha. These two ships are clearly meant to be analogous, but the handling of both again shows a bias against Klingons. Unlike other ships, neither loses a console slot. The Vorcha gets a nice turn rate while the Excelsior gets an amazing boff selection thanks to the LT. Cmdr tac slot (having different cmdr. and lt cmdr. slots is always a superior set up to having two of the same because of redundancies) Yet, for no apparent reason the Vorcha loses a good chunk of hull and a device slot while the Excelsior doesn't.
    9. Klingon's still don't have efficient boffs putting us at a distinct disadvantage against federation players who have ships full of them. This in particular is something that should have been addressed *weeks* after launch.
    10. The best ability in the game, the Intrepid's ablative armor was deemed by the vocal PvP community and Cryptic themselves to be OP. But instead of fixing it, they lowered both the duration *and* the cooldown. This actually made things worse, since 15 seconds is more than enough time to heal and resist-up a team member and the more often this can be done the more powerful the ability becomes.
    11. Last but not least -- the straw that broke the camel's back so to speak, the Advanced escort MVAM version. The boff layout (cmdr. tac, lt. tac, ensign tac, lt eng, lt. cmdr sci) basically gives it 90% of the versatility of the Bop without any of the drawbacks. This ship has way more hull than a BoP, more weapons than a BoP, more boff stations than a BoP, more tactical consoles than a BoP, and a kickass ability that can take up a much less valuable sci slot (at the least it should NEED to take up a tactical slot). This ship in it's current iteration is by far the best escort in the game, with nothing else coming close. The feds now have the best cruisers, sci ships, AND escorts in the game and it reeks of imbalance

    Now to be fair, I don't think Cryptic really hates Klingons. I think that there might be subtle bias in place that Cryptic themselves might not even realize that makes them act the way they do. Whether it be certain clueless players whining about Klingon OPness, or the devs themselves playing more as feds, or just plain 'ole wanting to appease the majority, it's here, it's real, and I've had enough. I don't think you can read and comprehend this post without realizing that there is something horribly wrong here, and I hope this thread opens a great number of eyes to what the Klingon community has had to put up with all of this time.

    1. I bet you would like a fully starship what can shot anything from cloak. would you? lolklingon
    2. Gal-X awesome? lol
    3. Carrier is still nice healer/tank. best in game, and primary npcspammer lol
    4. Varanus is still good ship
    5. Nebula? well its really silly ship what could use a tunedown
    6. Klingons do have mostly DPS ships. Cannons = DPS!!! fed ships? not really. Beams are pathetic
    7. Sensor analysis? I dont care really
    8. Excelsior is the only cruiser what can match klingon cruisers so what? QQ i lost OP Cruiser? Klinon cruisers are still more efficient
    9. really?
    10. Ablative armor is annoying really but other than that? They live longer? Well yes.
    11. Prometheus MVAM vs BoP? BoP is the best ship ingame. Universal station, agility, battlecloak, universal stations, battlecloak... ohh i did mention those? BoP is better than any ship.
    and Prometheus pets are made to make Klingons laugh. they just sux.

    "The feds now have the best cruisers, sci ships, AND escorts in the game and it reeks of imbalance"
    The Klingons have the best cruisers, AND they have BoP what is the best in game, and it reeks of imballance

    So now its corrected
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    so can we stop trying to turn this into a hate WHATEVER side you dont play thread again , i actually started to like this thread..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Phibrizzo wrote: »
    Firstly Hurley, I will state that while your points may be valid, you may be biased yourself. I'll explain.

    Klingon players, having to rely WAY MORE on pvp to level up, become WAY BETTER in terms out skill in pvp. They support each other better, they work better as a team, than Fed players do. This leads to massive imbalances in pvp combat. When Fed players are consistently being slaughtered 15-0 or at best 15-2, it's not fun. Alot of us play this game to have fun. I speak from experience when I say the best matches are the ones that end 15-13 or even 15-14. Even if my team lost. I would rather play a close match than a slaughter match, regardless whether I win or lose. But that doesn't happen much anymore.

    Most Fed players are sick and tired of being slaughtered like that, so if we do pvp, it's not that often.

    I'll give you an example of a match I was in with my Fed SCI.

    I went into a space pvp match. All the gear on my ship is MK XI or better, and all of it is Uncommon or better. I also have the full Borg set.

    It was a 5 on 5.

    All five Klingon players had carriers. We lost 15 to nothing. Two of the Klink carriers literally dealt 0 damage by the time it was over. But each healed their teammates in excess of 5 million damage EACH. Between 2 people, they healed almost 11 MILLION damage on their teammates. When your ships and your actual personal skills let you do that in a match, yeah, it becomes really unballanced, and really unenjoyable.

    Oh yes, this match took place AFTER the "nerf" as you put it to Klink carriers.

    There's a reason Fed players ***** about this. PVP should be a nice break for Fed players to get away from the grind of the missions. Especially since a good deal of the missions we face are the same thing redone over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and......you get the point.

    But it translates into few Fed players ever doing pvp, and some of the ones who do, are either dumb or taking advantage of the system. More than once I've seen a Fed Player join a pvp match and than simply sit there because there's no way they're going to win, and yet they still want the medals so they can get gear.

    Also, to point out some facts about what you stated...



    The Galaxy X as it is now is in alot of cases useless. The Phaser Lance has a long cooldown and a narrow firing arc. I do not know the exact specs on it. But I do know that a standard phaser beam array will seriously outdamage it due to the long cooldown with the phaser lance. Also, the Galaxy X, like all other High tier cruisers, turns like a dead pig. Combined with the weapons narrow firing arc, it becomes really hard to bring this weapon to bear on the way more maneuverable klingon ships. Add THAT to the long cooldown, and the fact that the lance takes up a weapon slot, and the lance becomes useless.



    Already adressed this.

    Less Fed players going into pvp means longer wait times for Klink players to get a pvp match, and the longer it takes said players to level up.

    The more time it takes Klink players to level up, means less people play Klingons. Which means less people playing the game.

    Less Fed players who do pvp, and finish all missions and either quit or take a break from the game, means less people playing the game.

    Less people playing the game means it gets shut down.

    Cryptic is aware of this. When they adjust something one way or another, they are attempting to adjust it so more people are having fun and keep playing the game.

    Ultimately, Cryptic will do what they feel is best for the game. If that involves "balancing pvp" so to speak, than they will do it. While it may drive away some players such as yourself, it will keep more people playing the game, and probably even bring in more people than it drives away.

    I tend to stay out of these type treads because they tend to get messy.

    For the record, I agree with the OP. Cryptic tends to give the Federation the best toys to play with and any thing that the Klingons get that works well or can be down right deadly in the hands of a skilled player get nerfed all to hell due to excessive Federation whiners crying imbalance.

    I jumped in on this post because it seems like someone’s claming that because the Klingons had nothing but PVP at the start of this MMO and got really good at it and know how to protect each other and use teamwork, that there vessels should not be on par with the federation vessels :eek:

    So if I understand this right, what’s basically being said is that because Federation players tend to be less skilled than Klingon players in PVP, they should be given better equipment to make up for it……. Sound about right?

    I play both Federation and KDF toons and I feel that there’s a growing rift between both factions Vessels favoring the Federation.

    I can imagine that trying to balance out what both Factions are capable of and give each one there own identity can be near impossible for Cryptic.

    The one thing that can’t be balanced in any MMO is skill and skilled players should not have to play with a handicap.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    wrote:
    so can we stop trying to turn this into a hate WHATEVER side you dont play thread again , i actually started to like this thread..
    Unfortunately it always comes down to that, and your best hope is to make the really important points and hope the community team finds the relevant feedback and ignores/moderates the rest.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    and yet, when we do over 11 million damage and cant get a single kill, that goes beyond skill. thats just damned overpowered. earlier i was in a capture space battle. the combined damage for both teams of like 10 people was not 11 million damage
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    show me were in trek prime you find any ship after star trek 6 a fire wile clocked BOP? you cant. why?
    the empire would would have trashed any plans of the ship. why? it was used to kill there leader.

    PS read the dev's post to you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    tarjan wrote: »
    Yeah i hate beeing threated like i am worth less then a fed player eaven when we all pay the same to play the same game just on diffrent sides , we all want the same thing a better Startrek mmo so bickering about when each side ask for some improvements or highlights something that is lacking is actually stupid.

    Which is the basis of my grief and also why I say some fans and not all fans of the federation. I know several whom are not closed minded and selfish in a game that is meant to be for all fans of Star Trek.

    The rest is my playing the "klingon" because I actually have a physical affliction that makes me unable to properly surpress my testosterone driven raging (thats to a unfortunate wound recieved years ago).
    Its also why I indulge at times in the hobbies I do- it takes that edge to "hit first-reason later" away from my personality.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Phibrizzo wrote: »
    i do see your point

    in my case, i was speaking from what cryptics point of view may be, and trying to appease the majority of the player base, which by fact, is fed

    i have a klink character myself, but i mainly play as fed

    i never try to put myself on a pedestal. i hate it when other people do that, and i also hate hypocrites

    Well then I'm sorry if my rants have offended you and please realize that I dislike the "smugness" of some but do not lump the "some" as being indicitave of the whole.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    Well then I'm sorry if my rants have offended you and please realize that I dislike the "smugness" of some but do not lump the "some" as being indicitave of the whole.

    as i am sorry for coming across as being smug. was never my intention
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Phibrizzo wrote: »
    and yet, when we do over 11 million damage and cant get a single kill, that goes beyond skill. thats just damned overpowered. earlier i was in a capture space battle. the combined damage for both teams of like 10 people was not 11 million damage

    Thats not a good enough reason though. I've never surpassed 300k in damage in a match and I put alot of time ( and asking of better players for tips) into my BoP. Even though I try to keep competitive and up-to-date on the "what works", I am a casual player. My PvP scores do not reflect any "OP" ness.
    Those who research and do well in PvP are just better at PvP, those who do the work and hit the middle are like me and those whom do poorly are just poor PvP'ers in general.
    If what you give as an example was true to form then my repeated losses to the semipremade yesterday would show the federation OP nature as being real. It did not. It meant I was outclassed and did not play as well or teamed as well as I should to insure victory for my side.
    I still had fun though and thats all that really matters.
    PvP really is a sport within any game that one must strive to get better at or suffer the result of never enjoying it.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    show me were in trek prime you find any ship after star trek 6 a fire wile clocked BOP? you cant. why?
    the empire would would have trashed any plans of the ship. why? it was used to kill there leader.

    PS read the dev's post to you.

    Show me in trek prime were 1000's of once Borg drones were liberated and returned successfully to thier respective races to function as members.
    STO is not hard canon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    Show me in trek prime were 1000's of once Borg drones were liberated and returned successfully to thier respective races to function as members.
    STO is not hard canon.

    Technically Trek Canon would suggest that with the return of Voyager from the Delta Quadrant that the technology learned during the voyage would be used later. As we have seen with the Borg additions to our ships. Captain Picard, Seven of Nine, and Icheb all were liberated from the collective. In the 30 years or so between Nemisis and the current date one can only assume that the medical technology to liberate the Borg would become more common.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    Thats not a good enough reason though. I've never surpassed 300k in damage in a match and I put alot of time ( and asking of better players for tips) into my BoP. Even though I try to keep competitive and up-to-date on the "what works", I am a casual player. My PvP scores do not reflect any "OP" ness.
    Those who research and do well in PvP are just better at PvP, those who do the work and hit the middle are like me and those whom do poorly are just poor PvP'ers in general.
    If what you give as an example was true to form then my repeated losses to the semipremade yesterday would show the federation OP nature as being real. It did not. It meant I was outclassed and did not play as well or teamed as well as I should to insure victory for my side.
    I still had fun though and thats all that really matters.
    PvP really is a sport within any game that one must strive to get better at or suffer the result of never enjoying it.

    I personally love pvp in games cause usually the pve content (the ai) is not as fun to fight against as a human player , it takes way more skill to defeat another human then any ai i ever found in my gaming years from when pong hit as a coin up :P yes im that old... Still a kdf pug that work as a team and team up and such is at this point in the game be just as good a new premade , this will change when the premade players get more play time under their belt thou... But as i said before there is allso a need for one side to have a lot of skill points put in ground skills and the other side has like 0 use for ground skills... so trying to balance anything is kinda futile until we split up the ground and space... but thats just my opinion..
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    Thats not a good enough reason though. I've never surpassed 300k in damage in a match and I put alot of time ( and asking of better players for tips) into my BoP. Even though I try to keep competitive and up-to-date on the "what works", I am a casual player. My PvP scores do not reflect any "OP" ness.
    Those who research and do well in PvP are just better at PvP, those who do the work and hit the middle are like me and those whom do poorly are just poor PvP'ers in general.
    If what you give as an example was true to form then my repeated losses to the semipremade yesterday would show the federation OP nature as being real. It did not. It meant I was outclassed and did not play as well or teamed as well as I should to insure victory for my side.
    I still had fun though and thats all that really matters.
    PvP really is a sport within any game that one must strive to get better at or suffer the result of never enjoying it.

    ill elaborate some more than.

    our teamwork was good. not stellar, but good. we were almost always focusing fire one one target. we were healing each other alot. constantly we would have one of them down to around 20% hull when all their repair things would kick in and in a matter of two seconds they would have full shields and hull. we had a mix of sci, escort, and cruisers. i dont remember individual player classes. the 3 carriers doing damage took a long time to take us out, as we helaed each other alot

    this also went on for over half an hour. its very frustrating to get over 20 almost kills, and be denied every single time and end up putting that much effort into it to wind up with a score of 15-0
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    tarjan wrote: »
    I personally love pvp in games cause usually the pve content (the ai) is not as fun to fight against as a human player
    I agree, though up until STO I disliked pvp in almost any game. That includes EVE (spelled it right) and CoX.
    STO is the first game to make pvp both fun and accessible without a secret handsjake or knowing that old uber-pvp who hands out pearls of action wisdom.
    STO has given that to me. I can have fun in PvP. Selfish maybe, but I will defend STO pvp evermore due to it.
    Cryptic, Dstahl, though I may not be the best at it and thank you for making it playible by any who puts forth the effort.

    As to the AI's, recent Romulan NPCs (and before it was the Breen) are very fun and challenging for an average level player. If the Devs continue to go that route in coding the AI, I think things will become fun for all very soon.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Roach wrote: »
    I agree, though up until STO I disliked pvp in almost any game. That includes EVE (spelled it right) and CoX.
    STO is the first game to make pvp both fun and accessible without a secret handsjake or knowing that old uber-pvp who hands out pearls of action wisdom.
    STO has given that to me. I can have fun in PvP. Selfish maybe, but I will defend STO pvp evermore due to it.
    Cryptic, Dstahl, though I may not be the best at it and thank you for making it playible by any who puts forth the effort.

    As to the AI's, recent Romulan NPCs (and before it was the Breen) are very fun and challenging for an average level player. If the Devs continue to go that route in coding the AI, I think things will become fun for all very soon.

    I myself hope they get rid of most of the current ai spam we got in pvp instances (yes im a carrier pilot on T'hrud) but i agree its getting stupid with mines, fighters , holo fleets and fleet support abilities... all the spam would fit much more into open world pvp attacking starbases setting up starbase defenses etc . And yes STO pug pvp is fun but it has slowed down a lot the last few months .... there need to be something else to get players to pvp then marks...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    what i love about the pvp in sto regardless of the balancing is that when you die you dont lose nothing. even if you playing pve on advance or elite you just get damaged and can heal at a cost of items in space or ground or go to a space dock and get healed or repaired for free. no punishment i love it. that way if klingons want to be over powered and dominate pvp i dont care. but at least i want to be able to kill one out of 15 or ill get in a tissy. currently a good group of klingons working together is unbeatable no matter if you flying dreadnaught, or any cruiser or escort or sci ship. your doomed. but its ok because no punishment or penalty.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Phibrizzo wrote: »
    ill elaborate some more than.

    our teamwork was good. not stellar, but good. we were almost always focusing fire one one target. we were healing each other alot. constantly we would have one of them down to around 20% hull when all their repair things would kick in and in a matter of two seconds they would have full shields and hull. we had a mix of sci, escort, and cruisers. i dont remember individual player classes. the 3 carriers doing damage took a long time to take us out, as we helaed each other alot

    this also went on for over half an hour. its very frustrating to get over 20 almost kills, and be denied every single time and end up putting that much effort into it to wind up with a score of 15-0

    Yet you describe my experience and those of other casual KDF'ers whom pvp and see the same things happen when fighting feds. Its not the faction it is the player.
    Most, if not every single PvPer I can name (whom are on this forum) is better than me at the game. If I meat them in battel as foes chance are they will win. It doesn't dull my spirits but it is a defeat.
    If I go into a PuG full of relative unexperienced players, I tend to do fairly well (about middle of the scoreboard in damage and kills) at pvp. That doesn't make those unfortunate feds bad under powered. It makes them inexperienced.
    I've known a few whom came into STO after release that tried PvP, didn't find it fun for the same reasons as you, that listened to the old PvP'ers, took tips and have since surpassed my meager skills. It really does take pratice and teamwork.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    what i love about the pvp in sto regardless of the balancing is that when you die you dont lose nothing. even if you playing pve on advance or elite you just get damaged and can heal at a cost of items in space or ground or go to a space dock and get healed or repaired for free. no punishment i love it. that way if klingons want to be over powered and dominate pvp i dont care. but at least i want to be able to kill one out of 15 or ill get in a tissy. currently a good group of klingons working together is unbeatable no matter if you flying dreadnaught, or any cruiser or escort or sci ship. your doomed. but its ok because no punishment or penalty.

    Yeah this is why i dont call this pvp but WARGAMES practice for open world pvp where we will loose systems bases and other important resources , wich would help to keep the game alive in the long run much more then im sorry to say pve content thats gets used up after 1 run trough....
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    tarjan wrote: »
    Roach wrote: »

    I myself hope they get rid of most of the current ai spam we got in pvp instances (yes im a carrier pilot on T'hrud) but i agree its getting stupid with mines, fighters , holo fleets and fleet support abilities... all the spam would fit much more into open world pvp
    I can agree.
    Mines suck, as do fleet support, photonic fleet, etc due to teh spam issue. I see no un-game changing way to remove them.
    Carrier pets simply need a revamp on thier control mechanics to make the carrier capable of less pets but better pets that can be sent to do actions with simple commands instead of the complete fire and forget spam that exists now.
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