Exactly. WoW, Aion, EQ2, SWG, to name a few, actually had interactive crafting. Not just open a vendor with the right amount of items in your inventory.
That's exactly how crafting is in WoW. You just open up the "anvil" with the right amount of items in your inventory.
SWG had actual crafting. WoW is just like STO just wrapped in a different skin.
Still not even close. Most MMOs content up until end game is solo focused. They have optional group content, just like STO does. However, at least STO's solo content scales with group sizes making it not so.
d2 content scales with group size too
optional group content are instances or raids with bosses you can't solo ... mostly for loot not xp --> can't find them in STO
even the stations are not mmo
more like d2 chat rooms with graphics ... any yes "rooms" not room
one thing i expect from an mmorpg is at least one main point (town,station etc ...) where everybody is visible not splited on many instanced "chat rooms"
d2 content scales with group size too
optional group content are instances or raids with bosses you can't solo ... mostly for loot not xp --> can't find them in STO
even the stations are not mmo
more like d2 chat rooms with graphics ... any yes "rooms" not room
one thing i expect from an mmorpg is at least one main point (town,station etc ...) where everybody is visible not splited on many instanced "chat rooms"
Well we kinda got misguided about that. when I heard there was only going to be one server I was under the same impression too. One server, wow its gonna be amazing! like a whole space station filled with players with 1 server. Of course I knew it wouldnt have everoyone but really did think the idea meant bigger.
'
Fast forward to launch and it turns out that its the exact opposite, 1 servers means we;'re all gonna split up into tiny little fragments and that large spaceport full of cadets and captains and whatnot all went up in smoke.
Well we kinda got misguided about that. when I heard there was only going to be one server I was under the same impression too. One server, wow its gonna be amazing! like a whole space station filled with players with 1 server. Of course I knew it wouldnt have everoyone but really did think the idea meant bigger.
'
Fast forward to launch and it turns out that its the exact opposite, 1 servers means we;'re all gonna split up into tiny little fragments and that large spaceport full of cadets and captains and whatnot all went up in smoke.
it's the cheaper version for the publisher
if you instance everything you have no trouble with lag etc ... but you also don't have a mmo
they want the mmo money but they don't want to spend it for mmo servers
d2 content scales with group size too
optional group content are instances or raids with bosses you can't solo ... mostly for loot not xp --> can't find them in STO
even the stations are not mmo
more like d2 chat rooms with graphics ... any yes "rooms" not room
one thing i expect from an mmorpg is at least one main point (town,station etc ...) where everybody is visible not splited on many instanced "chat rooms"
This is actually because of 'instancing', which was first implemented (at least widely) in later expansions in Everquest. There were many that proclaimed it as heralding the collapse of the classic MMO culture (everyone hanging out in 'zones', etc). It was basically a mechanic to reduce server loads and answer growing feedback about content 'ownership' by large groups (ie: fighting over rare spawns, etc).
You have to research what you buy into these days, especially when it comes to MMO games. Assuming that a game will have one giant server is a huge mistake, albeit one many people make at least once.
Actually it being a single server has nothing to do with it, other than perception. There is nothing stopping them binding instances to a player, that way you'd feel no different than if it were different servers as you'd have no perception the others exist.
Being able to access the others is say no different than Blizzard implementing cross server access to PvP scenarios and PvE dungeons. Which they did.
Actually it being a single server has nothing to do with it, other than perception. There is nothing stopping them binding instances to a player, that way you'd feel no different than if it were different servers as you'd have no perception the others exist.
Being able to access the others is say no different than Blizzard implementing cross server access to PvP scenarios and PvE dungeons. Which they did.
Well we can talk all day what they can do, like you said nothing is stopping them. But until they mention it or implement it, thats merely just pie in the sky wishful thinking. So these are all hypotheticals
Well we can talk all day what they can do, like you said nothing is stopping them. But until they mention it or implement it, thats merely just pie in the sky wishful thinking. So these are all hypotheticals
Well not entirely, as stated cross server accessible content is no different to instancing in practise. Likewise for phasing.
If they ever want to add RvR to this game (which they have stated they are interested in doing), then I can't see there being much option but to start binding players to limited number of instances for that content.
There's still plenty of people per instance at the moment, which in numbers equate to the number of players per zone on seperate servers.
It is nothing more than perception, knowing other instances are in play and being able to visit them if you desire.
Well not entirely, as stated cross server accessible content is no different to instancing in practise.
If they ever want to add RvR to this game (which they have stated they are interested in doing), then I can't see there being much option but to start binding players to limited number of instances for that content.
There's still plenty of people per instance at the moment, which by numbers aren't that much different to the number of players per zone on sperate servers.
Well i hope your right, because thats one of the major flaws in this game, no community at all. It makes the massive part seem like a sick joke at how untrue it feels.
Well i hope your right, because thats one of the major flaws in this game, no community at all. It makes the massive part seem like a sick joke at how untrue it feels.
Easy anwser to that. Join a Fleet.
Running around Dalaran alone doesn't feel like a community either, there's just other people. Neither does soloing content. No matter the game. So again, no real difference.
Running around Dalaran alone doesn't feel like a community either, there's just other people. Neither does soloing content. No matter the game. So again, no real difference.
My joining or not joining a fleet should have no bearing in a Massive online game, it should always be massive no matter how i wish to spend my playtime. swg, wow, everquest, etc etc, are all massive no matter if i was in a guild or not.
Running around Dalaran alone doesn't feel like a community either, there's just other people. Neither does soloing content. No matter the game. So again, no real difference.
I'd have to say I think that is spot on. The tools are there for a community, they just have to make use of them.
However, some things that correlate do need work. IE: joined things as a group
My joining or not joining a fleet should have no bearing in a Massive online game, it should always be massive no matter how i wish to spend my playtime. swg, wow, everquest, etc etc, are all massive no matter if i was in a guild or not.
What I'm trying to say is it is massive, but people are hooked on this perception that instancing makes a difference. It doesn't.
In reality in any MMO how many people do you really see around you at any given time? If the number of people per instance equates to a similar number you'd see if it were a single zone then its no different. It simply means you have a wider community and don't have to re-roll to play alongside them.
I personally would like to see instance binding (i.e. virtual servers), but with an option to change if you wished to
This is actually because of 'instancing', which was first implemented (at least widely) in later expansions in Everquest. There were many that proclaimed it as heralding the collapse of the classic MMO culture (everyone hanging out in 'zones', etc). It was basically a mechanic to reduce server loads and answer growing feedback about content 'ownership' by large groups (ie: fighting over rare spawns, etc).
You have to research what you buy into these days, especially when it comes to MMO games. Assuming that a game will have one giant server is a huge mistake, albeit one many people make at least once.
i don't have problems with instanced parts of the game but there must be some non instanced space
it woul'd be enough if the spacestations were not instanced but this game is completely instanced
this is one of the main differences between a mmorpg and a morpg .. the massive is missig ...
My joining or not joining a fleet should have no bearing in a Massive online game, it should always be massive no matter how i wish to spend my playtime. swg, wow, everquest, etc etc, are all massive no matter if i was in a guild or not.
So you think there is a difference in running around and seeing 40 people you won't talk to and running around and seeing 100 people you won't talk to?
So you think there is a difference in running around and seeing 40 people you won't talk to and running around and seeing 100 people you won't talk to?
For immersion yes? is a far more dynamic world, more variables more chances to meet total jerks and angels. in other games it was great sometimes being in low lvl area and seeing higher levels pass. It was nice to see, something DIFFERENT walk across the landscape, be it a chocobo for the first time or a dragon mount, some beautiful avatar with awesome armor. It broke up the monotony of just seeing the same same same same thing with NO chance of a different experience. sure things got trained on me, and i got jacked and i also met some people who gave me hints or a nice item that was way above me but garbage to them.
So yes, it makes a huge difference to me. Thank you for asking.
You can do the fleet actions solo? Heh, g'luck with the CE or the Borg. Anyways, if you don't want to play the game that's your business. However, declaring that anything is a failure because YOU PERSONALLY don't like it is somewhat....arrogant...wouldn't you say? After all, nothing in this world lives or dies upon YOUR say so; you are not the emperor.
So, even though you dislike this game, it's hardly a failure because many other people DO like it. Sadly, the world doesn't revolve around you. I know, it's a shock to learn this, but 'tis true, 'tis true.
I can't add too much more than what he has, I will say if you sum up gameplay in STO that pretty much is what is there but as stated to label it a failure because you personally don't like it is where you and the rest of the "mmorpg" types go wrong. There are in fact players like myself who are satisfied with what we are getting, I'd be a fool to say I thought it was one of the best launched games I've ever played or even one of the best mmo experiences I've had out of the box. What I can say though is from the time I heard about the games development by this company til release was one of the shortest dev times ever and I am quite satisfied with what they were able to get done given that circumstance. I also beleive if they can make this much this fast it could also be added on to quickly and impressively.
And another thing I love how you all seem to try and come across as if you want something new but then you immediately begin to shoot down games on comparisons to what is old. I for one am glad that crafting isn't thrown into the game like it is in every other game out now, I can agree that they need to add alot more to the system they have in place but I applaud them for going the route they have and trying something different.
Again I couldn't argue with what the op says is wrong with STO but I can certainly agree that your opinion holds no more weight than mine does and I cannot deem a product a failure simply off my experience or feelings and neither can you.
What I'm trying to say is it is massive, but people are hooked on this perception that instancing makes a difference. It doesn't.
In reality in any MMO how many people do you really see around you at any given time? If the number of people per instance equates to a similar number you'd see if it were a single zone then its no different.
it's not massive
i played wow and ao with 40 players at one spot
i defended 1kw fortress with over 100 players and laag etc ...
there is also no place for socialising in STO
i know some players who spend most of their gaming time sitting in front of og bank or on oa hill interacting with other players ...
these are things i expect from a mmorpg and that's what i pay for ...
if you want to play completly instanced multiplayer games ok they are fun too but you should not have to pay monthly for it because most of them are free
More people doesn't add immersion... it simply adds more lag. More lag does not make something more of an MMO.
Thats nice now tell me again why your opinion is the defacto opinion as to what a proper "immersion" lvl a mmo should be. Is there somewhere I can look up that says under the authority of #$TRIBBLE@ Commander ryker wannabe's defintion of immersion is the official version?
Maybe we should make sure you approve of all new things in the game to see if they pass your judgement. or we can do like in real life and let each person decide for themselves what they want to define immersion.
Thats nice now tell me again why your opinion is the defacto opinion as to what a proper "immersion" lvl a mmo should be.
I liked mine better than yours. Or is this where you tell me how your opinion is the correct one?
Is there somewhere I can look up that says under the authority of #$TRIBBLE@ Commander ryker wannabe's defintion of immersion is the official version?
Pot. Kettle. Etc.
Maybe we should make sure you approve of all new things in the game to see if they pass your judgement. or we can do like in real life and let each person decide for themselves what they want to define immersion.
Except you are here telling me that my immeriosn definition is not authentic. So you're not after this, you just want to hear folks who agree with you.
Neither. While STO's becomes boring just after perhaps the 3rd time. WoW's ones becomes boring after a while too. Sure, keyword "a while", eventually both become monotonous and boring.
LOL STO becomes boring after the FIRST TIME to level cap! Just like Champions Online there is a very linear way to level to the cap. Add on the fact that STO was launched with missing content that should have been included and not in a 45 day update.
LOL STO becomes boring after the FIRST TIME to level cap! Just like Champions Online there is a very linear way to level to the cap. Add on the fact that STO was launched with missing content that should have been included and not in a 45 day update.
I played WoW since beta, up until about 4 months ago. 9 classes at launch, around 70 or so quests in just the first zone. 8 races, 6 starting zones, so between 400 and 500 JUST in starting zones. And there were 48 zones released at launch. Do the math.
I am not debating your point when I am saying this but please keep in mind the following:
1) Blizzard was a tremendously successful company before WoW with some small games like WARCRAFT 1-3, STARCRAFT, DIABLO 1-2. They pretty much owned the gaming market between 1995-2000. This set the stage for WoW by allowing a ton of time for development and massive amounts of resources as well as backstory provided by the 3 Warcraft predecessors (WotLK is almost entirely based on the events of Warcraft 3 and its expansion).
2) Poetic license. Blizzard can say or do anything in thier storylines because it is thier story and they can tell it any way they want to. Cryptic has to hold somewhat the the base story or risk losing loyal Star Trek fans from this game. They also have a responsibility to the owners of the Star Trek name. You cant flatten Klingon foreheads and give them big elephant ears or you cant call them Klingons and if Klingons dont exist in your game then it is not Star Trek so you cant use the name.
3) Bean counters. When Blizzard wants to spend 2-3 million on further development they contact internal accounting. When Cryptic wants to spend that kind of money they have to check with Atari. Totally different atmosphere.
4) Blizzard controls every aspect of how WoW operates and how content will be released. They can halt or rush any content releases they wish. Cryptic controls this to an extent but again major decisions come from where the money comes from. I am sure Cryptic wanted to have more time to develope this game but they agreed to a timetable set by Atari. Whenever there are multiple opinions on how something should be handled and money is involved you always see something less than what it was meant to be. I see it like building a house. If you are filthy rich and can afford to stop construction and you are making all the decisions on how the house will be built then you will get what you want out of it. If you are on a limited budget and your spouse is involved in the decisions on how the house should be built then things get far more complicated and sacrifices must be made.
Comments
A] Publishers want more easy money.
B] Consumers want more content for the same price.
C] Developers just want to make a cool game and get payed to do it.
So you have both A and B on divergent paths, and C being ripped apart by the tidal forces between A & B.
It gets messy sometimes.
That's exactly how crafting is in WoW. You just open up the "anvil" with the right amount of items in your inventory.
SWG had actual crafting. WoW is just like STO just wrapped in a different skin.
d2 content scales with group size too
optional group content are instances or raids with bosses you can't solo ... mostly for loot not xp --> can't find them in STO
even the stations are not mmo
more like d2 chat rooms with graphics ... any yes "rooms" not room
one thing i expect from an mmorpg is at least one main point (town,station etc ...) where everybody is visible not splited on many instanced "chat rooms"
Well we kinda got misguided about that. when I heard there was only going to be one server I was under the same impression too. One server, wow its gonna be amazing! like a whole space station filled with players with 1 server. Of course I knew it wouldnt have everoyone but really did think the idea meant bigger.
'
Fast forward to launch and it turns out that its the exact opposite, 1 servers means we;'re all gonna split up into tiny little fragments and that large spaceport full of cadets and captains and whatnot all went up in smoke.
it's the cheaper version for the publisher
if you instance everything you have no trouble with lag etc ... but you also don't have a mmo
they want the mmo money but they don't want to spend it for mmo servers
This is actually because of 'instancing', which was first implemented (at least widely) in later expansions in Everquest. There were many that proclaimed it as heralding the collapse of the classic MMO culture (everyone hanging out in 'zones', etc). It was basically a mechanic to reduce server loads and answer growing feedback about content 'ownership' by large groups (ie: fighting over rare spawns, etc).
You have to research what you buy into these days, especially when it comes to MMO games. Assuming that a game will have one giant server is a huge mistake, albeit one many people make at least once.
Being able to access the others is say no different than Blizzard implementing cross server access to PvP scenarios and PvE dungeons. Which they did.
Well we can talk all day what they can do, like you said nothing is stopping them. But until they mention it or implement it, thats merely just pie in the sky wishful thinking. So these are all hypotheticals
Well not entirely, as stated cross server accessible content is no different to instancing in practise. Likewise for phasing.
If they ever want to add RvR to this game (which they have stated they are interested in doing), then I can't see there being much option but to start binding players to limited number of instances for that content.
There's still plenty of people per instance at the moment, which in numbers equate to the number of players per zone on seperate servers.
It is nothing more than perception, knowing other instances are in play and being able to visit them if you desire.
Well i hope your right, because thats one of the major flaws in this game, no community at all. It makes the massive part seem like a sick joke at how untrue it feels.
Easy anwser to that. Join a Fleet.
Running around Dalaran alone doesn't feel like a community either, there's just other people. Neither does soloing content. No matter the game. So again, no real difference.
My joining or not joining a fleet should have no bearing in a Massive online game, it should always be massive no matter how i wish to spend my playtime. swg, wow, everquest, etc etc, are all massive no matter if i was in a guild or not.
I'd have to say I think that is spot on. The tools are there for a community, they just have to make use of them.
However, some things that correlate do need work. IE: joined things as a group
What I'm trying to say is it is massive, but people are hooked on this perception that instancing makes a difference. It doesn't.
In reality in any MMO how many people do you really see around you at any given time? If the number of people per instance equates to a similar number you'd see if it were a single zone then its no different. It simply means you have a wider community and don't have to re-roll to play alongside them.
I personally would like to see instance binding (i.e. virtual servers), but with an option to change if you wished to
i don't have problems with instanced parts of the game but there must be some non instanced space
it woul'd be enough if the spacestations were not instanced but this game is completely instanced
this is one of the main differences between a mmorpg and a morpg .. the massive is missig ...
So you think there is a difference in running around and seeing 40 people you won't talk to and running around and seeing 100 people you won't talk to?
For immersion yes? is a far more dynamic world, more variables more chances to meet total jerks and angels. in other games it was great sometimes being in low lvl area and seeing higher levels pass. It was nice to see, something DIFFERENT walk across the landscape, be it a chocobo for the first time or a dragon mount, some beautiful avatar with awesome armor. It broke up the monotony of just seeing the same same same same thing with NO chance of a different experience. sure things got trained on me, and i got jacked and i also met some people who gave me hints or a nice item that was way above me but garbage to them.
So yes, it makes a huge difference to me. Thank you for asking.
I can't add too much more than what he has, I will say if you sum up gameplay in STO that pretty much is what is there but as stated to label it a failure because you personally don't like it is where you and the rest of the "mmorpg" types go wrong. There are in fact players like myself who are satisfied with what we are getting, I'd be a fool to say I thought it was one of the best launched games I've ever played or even one of the best mmo experiences I've had out of the box. What I can say though is from the time I heard about the games development by this company til release was one of the shortest dev times ever and I am quite satisfied with what they were able to get done given that circumstance. I also beleive if they can make this much this fast it could also be added on to quickly and impressively.
And another thing I love how you all seem to try and come across as if you want something new but then you immediately begin to shoot down games on comparisons to what is old. I for one am glad that crafting isn't thrown into the game like it is in every other game out now, I can agree that they need to add alot more to the system they have in place but I applaud them for going the route they have and trying something different.
Again I couldn't argue with what the op says is wrong with STO but I can certainly agree that your opinion holds no more weight than mine does and I cannot deem a product a failure simply off my experience or feelings and neither can you.
More people doesn't add immersion... it simply adds more lag. More lag does not make something more of an MMO.
it's not massive
i played wow and ao with 40 players at one spot
i defended 1kw fortress with over 100 players and laag
there is also no place for socialising in STO
i know some players who spend most of their gaming time sitting in front of og bank or on oa hill interacting with other players ...
these are things i expect from a mmorpg and that's what i pay for ...
if you want to play completly instanced multiplayer games ok they are fun too but you should not have to pay monthly for it because most of them are free
Thats nice now tell me again why your opinion is the defacto opinion as to what a proper "immersion" lvl a mmo should be. Is there somewhere I can look up that says under the authority of #$TRIBBLE@ Commander ryker wannabe's defintion of immersion is the official version?
Maybe we should make sure you approve of all new things in the game to see if they pass your judgement. or we can do like in real life and let each person decide for themselves what they want to define immersion.
Er... I can't agree there.
it adds atmosphere and that's what makes a good mmo
I liked mine better than yours. Or is this where you tell me how your opinion is the correct one?
Pot. Kettle. Etc.
Except you are here telling me that my immeriosn definition is not authentic. So you're not after this, you just want to hear folks who agree with you.
LOL STO becomes boring after the FIRST TIME to level cap! Just like Champions Online there is a very linear way to level to the cap. Add on the fact that STO was launched with missing content that should have been included and not in a 45 day update.
I have all the "atmosphere" I need in zone chat and basicly ignore it.
That's kind of depressing.
I am not debating your point when I am saying this but please keep in mind the following:
1) Blizzard was a tremendously successful company before WoW with some small games like WARCRAFT 1-3, STARCRAFT, DIABLO 1-2. They pretty much owned the gaming market between 1995-2000. This set the stage for WoW by allowing a ton of time for development and massive amounts of resources as well as backstory provided by the 3 Warcraft predecessors (WotLK is almost entirely based on the events of Warcraft 3 and its expansion).
2) Poetic license. Blizzard can say or do anything in thier storylines because it is thier story and they can tell it any way they want to. Cryptic has to hold somewhat the the base story or risk losing loyal Star Trek fans from this game. They also have a responsibility to the owners of the Star Trek name. You cant flatten Klingon foreheads and give them big elephant ears or you cant call them Klingons and if Klingons dont exist in your game then it is not Star Trek so you cant use the name.
3) Bean counters. When Blizzard wants to spend 2-3 million on further development they contact internal accounting. When Cryptic wants to spend that kind of money they have to check with Atari. Totally different atmosphere.
4) Blizzard controls every aspect of how WoW operates and how content will be released. They can halt or rush any content releases they wish. Cryptic controls this to an extent but again major decisions come from where the money comes from. I am sure Cryptic wanted to have more time to develope this game but they agreed to a timetable set by Atari. Whenever there are multiple opinions on how something should be handled and money is involved you always see something less than what it was meant to be. I see it like building a house. If you are filthy rich and can afford to stop construction and you are making all the decisions on how the house will be built then you will get what you want out of it. If you are on a limited budget and your spouse is involved in the decisions on how the house should be built then things get far more complicated and sacrifices must be made.
A must read official review by PrOx
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=119712