An MMO fails when it has no community. Single player content can only go so far.
There are different types of players which are attracted to mmorpgs. You have the combat based players, you have the crafters, and you have the role players. All other type of players mix and match those three. This game only delivers the combat. There is no community. There is no role play. There are no favorite crafters which you constantly go to for goods.
This game failed, for one reason. It was catered to one type of player, and didn't deliver enough content to sustain said player type. There is no hook to this game besides the Star Trek title. Without that title, the critics, the game scores, they player base would have been much lower.
On top of that playing an engineer, tactical or science officer really does not mean any difference to me, it is the BO's that make the difference and even then very little, it really comes down to the ships you choose which are replaced to often to even get attached to them.
Neither. While STO's becomes boring just after perhaps the 3rd time. WoW's ones becomes boring after a while too. Sure, keyword "a while", eventually both become monotonous and boring.
STO boring after the 3rd time!
3rd time lol.
Dude STO missions are boring the first time around never mind leveling up through the game for a second or third time due to them being exact copies of each other 95% of the time.
While all MMO's have the go here, kill x amount of y or harvest y amount of z, other MMO manage to make this entertaining, interesting and fun. Of all the 87 missions in STO 2 stand out in my mind, a whole 2. WoW has dozens I can remember and I haven't played that since 3 months after its last expansion, hell EQ2 has quests I still remember and I haven't played that in years.
I have never gotten bored of an MMO 2 weeks after starting it not to mention STO is MMO in name only, its more akin to a single player game with online chat built in.
In its current state its no way worth a 15 subscription fee.
Gave up WoW awhile ago as well. However, the things I said about this game were everything this game had to offer. Tons more to do in WoW. No comparison. WoW has better group styled content, pvp, crafting, exploration, travel, oh, and we can't forgot that WoW has over 8000 quests (currently, with over 2600 at launch), while this game has less than 100.
WoW had (I believe) 600 quests at launch, not 2600. Both expansions were bigger in content by far than the vanilla release. However, the vast majority of quests even now are still go to X and kill Y.
WoW at release also had little more to do than STO has. I'm not saying crafting in STO isn't a joke, but it is still so in WoW (in many respects). Nothing in WoW takes a lot of time to obtain, or skill up on and that even includes obtaining end game gear. For the latter STO actually has longer longevity, although not as interesting in the way you obtain them.
You are also trying to compair an newly released game to one that been around for several years. For the length of time WoW has been out, it has comparitivly seen a very poor turnaround on new content.
...for me, when I played WoW:WotLK, there were two questlines that absolutely stood out, quite early in the expansion.
First was the questline where you have to save mammoth calfes. The second one was the whole Keristrasza - thing, the designers of this questline managed to get the player even a bit attached to that Keri chick (and her saddening fate).
The Klingon content (while fun) is a disgraces, purely because it is lacking. Its fairly clear the only reason they are currently playable is because marketing made an annoucement they'd be there at launch.
WoW had (I believe) 600 quests at launch, not 2600. Both expansions were bigger in content by far than the vanilla release.
WoW at release also did not have anything more to do than STO has. I'm not saying crafting in STO isn't a joke, but it is still so in WoW (in many respects). Nothing in WoW takes a lot of time to obtain or skill up on.
You are also trying to compair an newly released game to one that been around for several years. For the length of time WoW has been out, it has comparitivly seen a very poor turnaround on new content.
It needed less because it started out as having more. See, life doesnt always work with simple addition, you also need to start with a baseline and thats where the differences matter.
If any company starts out with many varied brands, but offers fewer new ones. They still have a large body of work to speak for. If a comany starts off with only 1 or 2 models and adds a few more, it may add more in the same amount of time as the other company but since it started off as less, they might only be catching up.
'
Well sto is the same way, this game gives barebones a new standard which is "we just promise it wont crash out of the box". When a game has NO end content and you can master it in 2 weeks with leisurely play that is nothing even close to WoW's original launch. And is a farce being called Massive anything.
WoW had (I believe) 600 quests at launch, not 2600. Both expansions were bigger in content by far than the vanilla release. The vast majority of quests are skill got to X and kill Y.
WoW at release also had little more to do than STO has. I'm not saying crafting in STO isn't a joke, but it is still so in WoW (in many respects). Nothing in WoW takes a lot of time to obtain or skill up on.
You are also trying to compair an newly released game to one that been around for several years. For the length of time WoW has been out, it has comparitivly seen a very poor turnaround on new content.
I played WoW since beta, up until about 4 months ago. 9 classes at launch, around 70 or so quests in just the first zone. 8 races, 6 starting zones, so between 400 and 500 JUST in starting zones. And there were 48 zones released at launch. Do the math.
If we are going to keep bringing up the WoW comparisons, how many people in WoW were maxed out in rank after 10 days, as opposed to STO. I am already ranked up to RA 5 whereas, after 2 weeks I was a lvl 25 in WoW.
I played WoW since beta, up until about 4 months ago. 9 classes at launch, around 70 or so quests in just the first zone. 8 races, 6 starting zones, so between 400 and 500 JUST in starting zones. And there were 48 zones released at launch. Do the math.
Vanilla WoW does not have huge amounts of quests in each zone. There is a lot of moving around and there still is until you can enter the Outlands. STV for example has vastly more quests them the majority of other zones. It was designed that way to introduce a time sink, along with giving a grander impression of the scale of the game.
If we are going to keep bringing up the WoW comparisons, how many people in WoW were maxed out in rank after 10 days, as opposed to STO. I am already ranked up to RA 5 whereas, after 2 weeks I was a lvl 25 in WoW.
3 days, actually. That's the record.
I don't think you've played WoW for some time, or at least leveled an alt. It take two weeks or less to go from level 1 to 80 now. Even at launch I made it to 60 in less than four weeks.
STO has less levels, so relatively speaking its actually not that much different and actually takes longer than the current version of WoW, even though that game has more levels. In WoW (now) everything is handed to one on a plate and that includes all but the very highest tier of epic gear.
Vanilla WoW does not have huge amounts of quests in each zone. There is a lot of moving around and there still is until you can enter the Outlands. STV for example has vastly more quests them the majority of other zones. It was designed that way to introduce a time sink, along with giving a grander impression of the scale of the game.
Oh, I know there wasn't that much in each zone. Just pointing out that if the 6 starter zones had between 400 and 500 quests, there is no way the other 42 zones had a combined total of 100 quests. I don't remember where it was posted, but WoW did in fact have over 2600 quests at launch. That includes class specific quests, tradeskill quests, and dungeon quests.
Some people say that "kill X" or "collect X" or "talk to npc" aren't real quests. So knock off about 1500 quests out of 2600 from WoW, and about 55 out of 87 from STO.
Vanilla WoW does not have huge amounts of quests in each zone. There is a lot of moving around and there still is until you can enter the Outlands. STV for example has vastly more quests them the majority of other zones. It was designed that way to introduce a time sink, along with giving a grander impression of the scale of the game.
Get over it, wow had tons more content than sto at release. sims online had more content than sto at release. your arguing that wow and sto were what, even? the same in the amount of content, do you even bother to think before posting. One iota of a thought would tell you wow's opening content was a complete game. From beginning to end, did they add more sure they did,but they added more to a complete game. Sto is not complete and you sticking your fingers in your ear while shouting to everyone it is, changes NOTHING.
I don't think you've played WoW for some time, or at least leveled an alt. It take two weeks or less to go from level 1 to 80 now. Even at launch I made it to 60 in less than four weeks.
STO has less levels, so relatively speaking its actually not that much different and actually takes longer than the current version of WoW, even though that game has more levels.
I have not played WoW in about 3 months. And seriously 1-80 in 72 hours with no sleep, seems doubtful.
I have not played WoW in about 3 months. And seriously 1-80 in 72 hours with no sleep, seems doubtful.
With full rested xp the whole way, boa chest/shoulders/ring, being ran through instances the whole way, ya, I can see it. Other than that, not sure how you can do it in 72 hours even if you played non stop the whole way.
Oh, I know there wasn't that much in each zone. Just pointing out that if the 6 starter zones had between 400 and 500 quests, there is no way the other 42 zones had a combined total of 100 quests. I don't remember where it was posted, but WoW did in fact have over 2600 quests at launch. That includes class specific quests, tradeskill quests, and dungeon quests.
Some people say that "kill X" or "collect X" or "talk to npc" aren't real quests. So knock off about 1500 quests out of 2600 from WoW, and about 55 out of 87 from STO.
I've been trying to look up the exact figure, but can't seem to find it. Hence why I said "I believe". I do know TBC added around double that existed in vanilla WoW, as they used the statement for marketing.
For one a single STO quest takes way longer than a multitude of WoW's take to complete. So quantity doesn't really come into it. Its time taken.
The vast majority of quests in vanilla WoW are kill x number of y, followed by additional slaughter to collect things from them or an object near them. That pretty much sums it up. TBC and WotLK added more involved quests.
You said 3 days, not 2 weeks. I said 2 weeks, which is more feasible then 3 days.
No I said the record was three day. Yeah and that was done by a no lifer, helped by an entire guild. They bascially ran around collecting the mobs from entire (high level) zones and pulled them to his AoE and finsihed them off using theirs (before he died). No quests involved.
No I said the record was three day. Yeah and that was done by a no lifer, helped by an entire guild. They bascially ran around collecting the mobs from entire (high level) zones and pulled them to his AoE and finsihed them off using theirs (before he died). No quests involved.
so basically it has nothing to do with whats being discussed. good job.
so basically it has nothing to do with whats being discussed. good job.
Yes it has, as that is just out of context. The record is 3 days. I said you can typically reach level cap in WoW within two weeks, which you can. Which is little different to STO, especially given there are less levels.
One thing has to be considered - STO in it's current state does not deserve the title "MMO"! STO is more of an arcade space shooter offering a RPG-like skill-table and an optional multiplayer part. Don't misunderstand me, I do like STO for now, but I'm also doubt that Cryptic will be able to hold a constant player-/customer base.
The funny thing is that most of todays MMO-publishers/developers simply fail in many aspects and especially when it comes to what the customers' needs considering the fact that the customers have grown up and no longermay be easily satisfied. Let it EA Mythic throwing out Warhammer in an unfinished and unbalanced state or let it be Aion, an asia-grinder that was merchandised has "westernized" MMO that actually was only westernized in terms of translated texts. All of them failed because they are missing a very special and utterly needed thing - dedication to their product and not only the quickly earned $ / / insert random currency!
Talking about STO you can say that it is a nice arcade space shooter, yet one must admit that Cryptic somehow failed to create a MMO that reflects such a huge franchise in many aspects and especially the aspect of MMO doctrines (Killer, Socializer, Achiever, Explorer) ...
> you may kill NPCs on ground and in space as well as participate in PvP x VS x battles
A standart for MMOs, yet I'm missing more missions that give you the buzzing feel of being
within the StarTrek universe. Remember that Klingon storyline mission when you helped the
old Enterprise. Spock hailed you and thanked for the assistance ... that was really kewl and
me and my friend where feeling like a real Starfleet Hero
> you may achieve the rank of rear admiral, but thats it.
The possibility to achieve certain things is the key to a constant player base. As long as you
manage to offer players things to achieve the longer they will subscribe and thatfor will socialize
with the community. Of course achivements should offer reasonable rewards and not feel like
a standart grindfest.
> you may not explore (exploration is not the simple scanning like it is offered in STO)
When I read a PC-games magazine Zinc? said that the STO universe was big. To be honest, it is
not. There are a hand full of sectors and I may travel through the STO universe within a few minutes.
Actually STO's universe is ridiculously tiny compared to other MMO titles where you possibly need
hours to travel through the whole world (EvEonline, Fallen Earth, WoW, DAoC, ...). This leads to the
fact that there actually is nothing to explore within STO ... anyone remembering the intro of StarTrek
or StarTrek TNG? I think it was not:
"Space: The final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship <players shipname>.
It's mission: to shoot and kill, shoot and kill and explore the universe within minutes and
to boldly go where everyone else has already been."
> you may not socialize (taking EvEonline with hundreds of players per guild and player driven politics)
Lack of socialization. You may solve every mission on your own. When entering FleetBattles or larger
engagements the system throws you into an instance with more players or you form a group with another
guy you most likely will never see again. There are no features that encourage players to interact with
each other except the standart zone chat talking like: "where is K7?" or "where to find sulu!?!?"
And again, please do not misunderstand me. I like the game and play it the way it is obviously meant to be played ... as a standart arcade shooter with additional teamplay content.
I can guarantee there wouldn't be as many flame posts or cancellations if they would just cater to all the types of mmo players. There is no crafting community, or a roleplay community. The only thing to do in this game is combat. It get's old, very quickly.
We need something to do besides combat.
No achievement system (nothing to achieve except hit the last level)
No exploration system (it's all laid out there for you)
No crafting system (turning items into a vendor is not crafting, don't care what anyone says)
No place to roleplay (starbases and the bridge of your ship is it)
No resource gathering system (scan a rock or cloud, theres no searching, no thought required)
These should have been in the game at launch. There is no excuse for it. Two years making this game, and all Cryptic comes up with is 87 quests and even more bugs than that. There is no replay value. There is nothing new the second time that you didn't experience the first time. The only change may be getting different class skills as you level, but you still use the same BO's regardless of what class you choose.
Game hasnt failed, for starters more people joined then whats expected, whats gonna happenm? all the extras are gone.
How about telling cryptic how to fix it, as i put in another post theres a few ideas they can add.
Come back in 6 months time instead of complaining, its nice you added some of the flaws in this game but why such a massive rant over it.
Come up with ideas on what to add!!
Yes, that is true. More people bought this game than what Cryptic originally thought. Do you know why? The name. Nothing more. There are more Trek fans out there than any other type of SciFi name. Besides, you should also take into account that saying "Hey, we had more people buy the game than we originally anticipated" is an awesome marketing ploy. For all we know, there could have been less than what they originally thought.
Well its not and its not without sleeping. I know loads of people who've done it in less than two weeks.
This game content isnt as much as I have seen other MMOs, and I know people who have gone back to wow and gotten 80 in 3 weeks. So what?
yes there isnt much END GAME stuff in STO, I play FFXI and even now its not easy to get 75 in 3 weeks even with all the additions.
Give STO TIME!!!!! If it flops you can quit, never see it again, failed MMO.
FFXI when I 1st played it took me 8 months to get 75 and another 8 months to get a bunch of end game stuff but then it was EU release and 2 expansion packs had already been released!!
Give STO Time Seriously. If you dont like it, Leave we all know the faults with it as im sure Cryptic do too. When one person moans about something its good for info, when 10 people moan about it its just stupid and annoying.
Yes it has, as that is just out of context. The record is 3 days. I said you can typically reach level cap in WoW within two weeks, which you can. Which is little different to STO, especially given there are less levels.
We're not talking about records, it easy to take any extreme and make it the standard to suit whatever statitical goal you have in mind. Lets replace the max record of 3 days and use the max record of how long. Since the max record of hitting highest level cap might be 4 years, lets use that as a meassuring stick? or better yet, why not use something that best reflects the true timescale.
But that would be hitting close to the truth and we dont want that to interfere with subjective opinions.
Comments
On top of that playing an engineer, tactical or science officer really does not mean any difference to me, it is the BO's that make the difference and even then very little, it really comes down to the ships you choose which are replaced to often to even get attached to them.
STO boring after the 3rd time!
3rd time lol.
Dude STO missions are boring the first time around never mind leveling up through the game for a second or third time due to them being exact copies of each other 95% of the time.
While all MMO's have the go here, kill x amount of y or harvest y amount of z, other MMO manage to make this entertaining, interesting and fun. Of all the 87 missions in STO 2 stand out in my mind, a whole 2. WoW has dozens I can remember and I haven't played that since 3 months after its last expansion, hell EQ2 has quests I still remember and I haven't played that in years.
I have never gotten bored of an MMO 2 weeks after starting it not to mention STO is MMO in name only, its more akin to a single player game with online chat built in.
In its current state its no way worth a 15 subscription fee.
WoW had (I believe) 600 quests at launch, not 2600. Both expansions were bigger in content by far than the vanilla release. However, the vast majority of quests even now are still go to X and kill Y.
WoW at release also had little more to do than STO has. I'm not saying crafting in STO isn't a joke, but it is still so in WoW (in many respects). Nothing in WoW takes a lot of time to obtain, or skill up on and that even includes obtaining end game gear. For the latter STO actually has longer longevity, although not as interesting in the way you obtain them.
You are also trying to compair an newly released game to one that been around for several years. For the length of time WoW has been out, it has comparitivly seen a very poor turnaround on new content.
...for me, when I played WoW:WotLK, there were two questlines that absolutely stood out, quite early in the expansion.
First was the questline where you have to save mammoth calfes. The second one was the whole Keristrasza - thing, the designers of this questline managed to get the player even a bit attached to that Keri chick (and her saddening fate).
Theres nothing better than making some one cry in PvP after a hard days work!
Klingon is PvP only, there is nothing to complete, and we are discussing it as is, not as it will be in 6 months.
It needed less because it started out as having more. See, life doesnt always work with simple addition, you also need to start with a baseline and thats where the differences matter.
If any company starts out with many varied brands, but offers fewer new ones. They still have a large body of work to speak for. If a comany starts off with only 1 or 2 models and adds a few more, it may add more in the same amount of time as the other company but since it started off as less, they might only be catching up.
'
Well sto is the same way, this game gives barebones a new standard which is "we just promise it wont crash out of the box". When a game has NO end content and you can master it in 2 weeks with leisurely play that is nothing even close to WoW's original launch. And is a farce being called Massive anything.
I played WoW since beta, up until about 4 months ago. 9 classes at launch, around 70 or so quests in just the first zone. 8 races, 6 starting zones, so between 400 and 500 JUST in starting zones. And there were 48 zones released at launch. Do the math.
LOL!
Priceless. I can't love your comment more.
Vanilla WoW does not have huge amounts of quests in each zone. There is a lot of moving around and there still is until you can enter the Outlands. STV for example has vastly more quests them the majority of other zones. It was designed that way to introduce a time sink, along with giving a grander impression of the scale of the game.
3 days, actually. That's the record.
I don't think you've played WoW for some time, or at least leveled an alt. It take two weeks or less to go from level 1 to 80 now. Even at launch I made it to 60 in less than four weeks.
STO has less levels, so relatively speaking its actually not that much different and actually takes longer than the current version of WoW, even though that game has more levels. In WoW (now) everything is handed to one on a plate and that includes all but the very highest tier of epic gear.
Oh, I know there wasn't that much in each zone. Just pointing out that if the 6 starter zones had between 400 and 500 quests, there is no way the other 42 zones had a combined total of 100 quests. I don't remember where it was posted, but WoW did in fact have over 2600 quests at launch. That includes class specific quests, tradeskill quests, and dungeon quests.
Some people say that "kill X" or "collect X" or "talk to npc" aren't real quests. So knock off about 1500 quests out of 2600 from WoW, and about 55 out of 87 from STO.
Get over it, wow had tons more content than sto at release. sims online had more content than sto at release. your arguing that wow and sto were what, even? the same in the amount of content, do you even bother to think before posting. One iota of a thought would tell you wow's opening content was a complete game. From beginning to end, did they add more sure they did,but they added more to a complete game. Sto is not complete and you sticking your fingers in your ear while shouting to everyone it is, changes NOTHING.
I have not played WoW in about 3 months. And seriously 1-80 in 72 hours with no sleep, seems doubtful.
When you addle some people they become confused, and then start exagerating their point to try to give it some credibility.
With full rested xp the whole way, boa chest/shoulders/ring, being ran through instances the whole way, ya, I can see it. Other than that, not sure how you can do it in 72 hours even if you played non stop the whole way.
I've been trying to look up the exact figure, but can't seem to find it. Hence why I said "I believe". I do know TBC added around double that existed in vanilla WoW, as they used the statement for marketing.
For one a single STO quest takes way longer than a multitude of WoW's take to complete. So quantity doesn't really come into it. Its time taken.
The vast majority of quests in vanilla WoW are kill x number of y, followed by additional slaughter to collect things from them or an object near them. That pretty much sums it up. TBC and WotLK added more involved quests.
Well its not and its not without sleeping. I know loads of people who've done it in less than two weeks.
You said 3 days, not 2 weeks. I said 2 weeks, which is more feasible then 3 days.
No I said the record was three day. Yeah and that was done by a no lifer, helped by an entire guild. They bascially ran around collecting the mobs from entire (high level) zones and pulled them to his AoE and finsihed them off using theirs (before he died). No quests involved.
so basically it has nothing to do with whats being discussed. good job.
Yes it has, as that is just out of context. The record is 3 days. I said you can typically reach level cap in WoW within two weeks, which you can. Which is little different to STO, especially given there are less levels.
How about telling cryptic how to fix it, as i put in another post theres a few ideas they can add.
Come back in 6 months time instead of complaining, its nice you added some of the flaws in this game but why such a massive rant over it.
Come up with ideas on what to add!!
The funny thing is that most of todays MMO-publishers/developers simply fail in many aspects and especially when it comes to what the customers' needs considering the fact that the customers have grown up and no longermay be easily satisfied. Let it EA Mythic throwing out Warhammer in an unfinished and unbalanced state or let it be Aion, an asia-grinder that was merchandised has "westernized" MMO that actually was only westernized in terms of translated texts. All of them failed because they are missing a very special and utterly needed thing - dedication to their product and not only the quickly earned $ / / insert random currency!
Talking about STO you can say that it is a nice arcade space shooter, yet one must admit that Cryptic somehow failed to create a MMO that reflects such a huge franchise in many aspects and especially the aspect of MMO doctrines (Killer, Socializer, Achiever, Explorer) ...
> you may kill NPCs on ground and in space as well as participate in PvP x VS x battles
A standart for MMOs, yet I'm missing more missions that give you the buzzing feel of being
within the StarTrek universe. Remember that Klingon storyline mission when you helped the
old Enterprise. Spock hailed you and thanked for the assistance ... that was really kewl and
me and my friend where feeling like a real Starfleet Hero
> you may achieve the rank of rear admiral, but thats it.
The possibility to achieve certain things is the key to a constant player base. As long as you
manage to offer players things to achieve the longer they will subscribe and thatfor will socialize
with the community. Of course achivements should offer reasonable rewards and not feel like
a standart grindfest.
> you may not explore (exploration is not the simple scanning like it is offered in STO)
When I read a PC-games magazine Zinc? said that the STO universe was big. To be honest, it is
not. There are a hand full of sectors and I may travel through the STO universe within a few minutes.
Actually STO's universe is ridiculously tiny compared to other MMO titles where you possibly need
hours to travel through the whole world (EvEonline, Fallen Earth, WoW, DAoC, ...). This leads to the
fact that there actually is nothing to explore within STO ... anyone remembering the intro of StarTrek
or StarTrek TNG? I think it was not:
"Space: The final frontier. These are the voyages of the starship <players shipname>.
It's mission: to shoot and kill, shoot and kill and explore the universe within minutes and
to boldly go where everyone else has already been."
> you may not socialize (taking EvEonline with hundreds of players per guild and player driven politics)
Lack of socialization. You may solve every mission on your own. When entering FleetBattles or larger
engagements the system throws you into an instance with more players or you form a group with another
guy you most likely will never see again. There are no features that encourage players to interact with
each other except the standart zone chat talking like: "where is K7?" or "where to find sulu!?!?"
And again, please do not misunderstand me. I like the game and play it the way it is obviously meant to be played ... as a standart arcade shooter with additional teamplay content.
With regards,
Asa
We need something to do besides combat.
These should have been in the game at launch. There is no excuse for it. Two years making this game, and all Cryptic comes up with is 87 quests and even more bugs than that. There is no replay value. There is nothing new the second time that you didn't experience the first time. The only change may be getting different class skills as you level, but you still use the same BO's regardless of what class you choose.
Yes, that is true. More people bought this game than what Cryptic originally thought. Do you know why? The name. Nothing more. There are more Trek fans out there than any other type of SciFi name. Besides, you should also take into account that saying "Hey, we had more people buy the game than we originally anticipated" is an awesome marketing ploy. For all we know, there could have been less than what they originally thought.
This game content isnt as much as I have seen other MMOs, and I know people who have gone back to wow and gotten 80 in 3 weeks. So what?
yes there isnt much END GAME stuff in STO, I play FFXI and even now its not easy to get 75 in 3 weeks even with all the additions.
Give STO TIME!!!!! If it flops you can quit, never see it again, failed MMO.
FFXI when I 1st played it took me 8 months to get 75 and another 8 months to get a bunch of end game stuff but then it was EU release and 2 expansion packs had already been released!!
Give STO Time Seriously. If you dont like it, Leave we all know the faults with it as im sure Cryptic do too. When one person moans about something its good for info, when 10 people moan about it its just stupid and annoying.
We're not talking about records, it easy to take any extreme and make it the standard to suit whatever statitical goal you have in mind. Lets replace the max record of 3 days and use the max record of how long. Since the max record of hitting highest level cap might be 4 years, lets use that as a meassuring stick? or better yet, why not use something that best reflects the true timescale.
But that would be hitting close to the truth and we dont want that to interfere with subjective opinions.