This game is pushing some very new video features that other games haven't really used to full extent before it seems. Also, it seems that the game relies more on your video card for rendering graphics then other games as well. This can lead to a video card being pushing to the max without relief from your actual computer. While I can't pin point what it is, it is a strong gut feeling.
Most people when getting a gaming computer just gets a everyday machine off of the shelf and buys a video card on the side. This issue with this that technicians should be warning you about is this:
Retail and everyday power supply have very terrible efficiency. Meaning that a standard 600 watt power supply may only have a efficiency of 60% or so: so meaning you're wasting 40% or more. Also these
"PSU"s are very prone to burning out when over worked. This happens often at the tech shops I worked at, someone installs a video card and when they finally get a game that pushes their system the PSU dies.
Also it is not just your power supply, heat is the number one cause of hardware failure now days. Installing a high end video card heats up your entire system like a oven and strains your video card over time. In addition to this, many people don't clean their systems so the fan cooling that most people have get worse from dust. Eventually from playing one high end game after another your video card will die usually after 1-2 years from heating.
There are ways to improve cooling in your system:
1) Adding an extra fan on the case. Do NOT get the little cards that blow air to your video card, it actually can screaw up air circulation of your case.
2) Make sure you have exhaust fans, air needs to come in as well as come out.
3) Room temperature. You may not notice it's hot, but your computer will. This is mainly important in the summer where people are playing games at 80-85 degrees room tempt.
4) Keep your system clean. Use a vacuum and blow the dust out of your system every few months or so.
5) Get a temperature checking program like speedfan, nvidia tuner etc to check the heat of your video card as well as your hard drives. Max out your fans.
6) This is unprofessional advice here and do so as a last resort: Getting a large room fan and open your case. Place room fan next to your case. This will keep it cool, but dust will cover your computer parts in no time. And when I mean fan - I mean a normal box fan.... not a swamp cooler (people these days).
7) Also as a last resort. Underclock. Yes people, I said it! Underclock your video card. If your card can't handle going max without straining your system or near overheating then you may want to downgrade the speed to something more manageable until you get better cooling.
--
Also to these talking about World of Warcraft as a comparison - you may want to see side by side comparisons of the minimum specs for running the game compared to Star Trek Online. This includes Aion. I can run WoW on my p3 800 mhz computer with 258 ram and a craptisic 8 year old video card.
STO is a new game with, while mostly unnoticeable by most, new graphical features does seem to push your gaming system pretty hard. This is concerning because that means this game isn't accessible for a lot of people.
I would suggest Cryptic to find a way to push more of the load on the CPU since it seems to be causing heating issues with video cards. *However it is to be noted: that the latest drivers could be causing this issue*
1. Good advice, but this shouldn't be a requirement for playing any game, unless cryptic are planning on supplying a fan with the game and installing it themselves, something a large proprtion of the userbase would be uncomfortable doing.
2. True as true can be.
3. True again, but surely if ambient temperature is going to be a significant factor in the game's workability then this is a problem with the game itself...you can't limit the playing of STO to people in cold climates or only when it's chilly outside, kind of defies the point of an MMORPG.
4. Did you seriously just use an open forum to advocate the use of a VACUUM to clean the inside of a case? Using a vacuum cleaner generates huge amounts of static which is more than capable of utterly destroying a system in mere seconds. If you're going to use one, under no curcumstances use one of those little handheld things, and make sure you're using the hose at a good distance from the unit itself. Be sure to ground yourself before and after using the vac, avoid doing it on carpet. You have been warned.
5. Good advice, hopefully your system won't end up sounding like a jet engine...
6. This actually works quite well in many cases, but yeah, neither professional, tidy or particularly safe if you're not careful.
7. Sound advice, but again, who's going to pay any amount of money for a graphics card and then be happy with not using it to its maximum potential- particularly those with high end cards which inevitably are more prone to oveheating. Cryptic can't POSSIBLY accept this as a viable fix of any sort?
I think you might be on to something with the shifting load on to CPU idea, let's hope they can implement something like this...
Yeah, there's vacuums for computer use or air cans. However, not everyone has one. Thanks for pointing that out ^^v. Yeah a household vacuum with a tube does the trick as long as you're careful with the static.
Also, about the whole Cryptic buying you a fan - you have a upgrade your system often in order to play the greatest and latest games all the time. So I'll agree to disagree there - Cryptic could have been more sensitive to requires they're passing on the customers, but this isn't anything new per say.
Yeah, there's vacuums for computer use or air cans. However, not everyone has one. Thanks for pointing that out ^^v. Yeah a household vacuum with a tube does the trick as long as you're careful with the static.
Also, about the whole Cryptic buying you a fan - you have a upgrade your system often in order to play the greatest and latest games all the time. So I'll agree to disagree there - Cryptic could have been more sensitive to requires they're passing on the customers, but this isn't anything new per say.
Can't help but agree to an extent, but the system requirements aren't exactly huge; top-end Crysis rigs are much bigger than STO, and in a lot of cases yeah, you might upgrade a graphics card, maybe a processor or RAM to run a new game, but to add a FAN to an existing rig which ALREADY fulfils or exceeds the recommended requirements seems a little out there....
"shifting the load to the cpu" You all should be slapped! The point of all the hard work Nvidia and ATI (sometimes Intel) has been doing is to get the majority of the work pumping on the GPU because of the nature of them being designed to run the games moreso than the CPU these days.
A very small portion of players are crashing after playing the game 20-30 minutes. Myself and the majority of "real world" technicians (Meaning we get payed to fix and learn about these problems) immediately agree that you are having an overheating issue.
Unless you think Star Trek Online wrote a virus in their game that specifically looks at your GPU and says "You are now going to reboot and flag overheating on the operating system's error log"
Get rid of your ridiculous non-factory overclocks on your undercooled video card.
Go clean your video card, yes even clean out those fins because that's where all the dust is stuck generally.
Grab a can of compressed air or a shop-vac and blow the system out (Yes of course when the system is turned off and unplugged) Also yes of course the power supply unit. Again yes the RAM, no kidding the CPU and it's fins too!
This game isn't designed for 10 year old computers with a 5 year old video card playing on max settings. Try turning it to minimum settings and see if your computer lasts longer?
Wow, that's quite compelling argument for the software leading to hardware faults theory- that's quite a jump over your standard temps!
For me it wasn't a heat issue, I pulled my box apart immediately and was able to touch all my heat sinks no problem. With two HD plugged in and powered, my system froze in the boot stage trying to locate Sata-1. I unplugged the second HD and my system still froze on locate Sata-1. I moved the plug that was in HD2 to HD1 and left HD2 unplugged and it booted immediately. I saw in the forums that some others were running bench mark tests so I grabbed a couple and they performed just fine (with the now current wiring).
Please do not deliver false input. It makes the poor cryptic developers chase red herrings. My system does not overheat. It just crashes.
There is no overheating visible in GPUz even short before the crash. There is nothing in the eventviewer that indicates any problem with that. My graphics accellerator does not even pump up the fan, as he does with other games that strain the graphics a bit.
Other question to the (still very quiet) developers: is there a way to log the STO-events? I would really like to help, but you are not making this easy
Guys! It's NOT a heating issue!! There are TOO MANY people complaining of the same problem and as Arterion said, it would be just down right stupid to release a game that creates computers to crash.
I have a fully rigged out game laptop that should be able to handle STO and then some. I've played SWG and WoW on this machine and never had an issue. When mine crashes I get maybe 4-5 mins into game play and then POOF
I would REALLY see it as a sign of progress if the Devs could post SOMETHING about progress on this issue. For days all I've been able to find is endless other users with the same problem debating back and forth about heating and upgrades and drivers etc etc. I want to hear someone FROM CRYPTIC answering what the heck is going on. I'm getting cranky that I paid for a game I can't play!!!
I know OB is a difficult time, but this doesn't get me overly excited about future problems that may come up when they can't even keep us informed of progress in correcting the issue. I had more than my fill of problems playing SWG and dealing with Sony Online and thier lack of communication and progress. I was REALLY hoping Crypic would be on the ball here.
"shifting the load to the cpu" You all should be slapped! The point of all the hard work Nvidia and ATI (sometimes Intel) has been doing is to get the majority of the work pumping on the GPU because of the nature of them being designed to run the games moreso than the CPU these days.
A very small portion of players are crashing after playing the game 20-30 minutes. Myself and the majority of "real world" technicians (Meaning we get payed to fix and learn about these problems) immediately agree that you are having an overheating issue.
Unless you think Star Trek Online wrote a virus in their game that specifically looks at your GPU and says "You are now going to reboot and flag overheating on the operating system's error log"
Get rid of your ridiculous non-factory overclocks on your undercooled video card.
Go clean your video card, yes even clean out those fins because that's where all the dust is stuck generally.
Grab a can of compressed air or a shop-vac and blow the system out (Yes of course when the system is turned off and unplugged) Also yes of course the power supply unit. Again yes the RAM, no kidding the CPU and it's fins too!
This game isn't designed for 10 year old computers with a 5 year old video card playing on max settings. Try turning it to minimum settings and see if your computer lasts longer?
I have no overclocks, regularly clean my PC out, including the graphics card with compressed air to remove dust. My rig is barely a year old, except for the graphics card which is a bit newer than that, my case is an Antec 900 with all fans on medium or high so 'undercooled' doesn't really apply, and I had everything on medium at a reduced resolution. And I'm not a fan of too much warmth, I'm in the UK and have my bedroom window open all the time- ambient in my room rarely breaks 18 degrees. Anything else you want to blame?
Surely there are too many people experiencing this for the game to be utterly blameless?
I don't think temperature can be ruled out, particualrly following my graphics card having spontaneously died following a crash, but if we accept temperature as the culprit and I can reasonably assess that it's not me which is at fault, perhaps the game is a contributing factor to overheating somehow.
I have no overclocks, regularly clean my PC out, including the graphics card with compressed air to remove dust. My rig is barely a year old, except for the graphics card which is a bit newer than that, my case is an Antec 900 with all fans on medium or high so 'undercooled' doesn't really apply, and I had everything on medium at a reduced resolution. And I'm not a fan of too much warmth, I'm in the UK and have my bedroom window open all the time- ambient in my room rarely breaks 18 degrees. Anything else you want to blame?
what are your computer specs? Not to be rude, but a year ago you could build a m-itx board with an atom CPU and toss in a graphic card of your choosing.
I would REALLY see it as a sign of progress if the Devs could post SOMETHING about progress on this issue. For days all I've been able to find is endless other users with the same problem debating back and forth about heating and upgrades and drivers etc etc. I want to hear someone FROM CRYPTIC answering what the heck is going on.
...
./sign for that part
I can only speak for my system: I use catalyst 9.12 now. Had version 9.08 before. I maintain my system well (am working in IT business btw). The loudest part of my system is the fan of my HD4870. I always hear when it winds up (as i.e. in X3) whenever the GPU needs more cooling. And I tell you again, in STO it goes up only slightly after the start and then stays constant. GPUz confirms, that the temp is around 80°. So this CAN'T be the prob, at least not in my system.
But if temp is no issue in some systems, but the crashes are all the same on all systems, then temp is ruled out as a cause for the crashes (to use some vulcan style logic).
Please, cryptic, tell us if there is some clue or at least what you are after, concerning this problem.
TIA
Dude if my graphics card just spontaneously died like that I'd be alot more ****ed, so good for you but sorry to hear that.
I still dispute any heating issue. I crashed yesterday just sitting at the log in screen, not even IN the game. I can't stay in the game long enough to get overheated.
When I first got in open beta, it would crash every 10-20 minutes, and my pc would just power off. When they shut the servers down and patched, this problem went away. Last night I was playing, and I started having the same issue again, only on one particular mission (can't remember what it was called off the top of my head) and at that time I was monitoring the temperature, and it wasn't very hot when it shut down on me.
I'm thinking it might be my power supply, since I'm running an i5 system with a 9500+8gb of ram + 500W power supply. We'll see later though, I'm gonna try borrowing a friend's 1000W power supply.
I can repeat the problem at any given time. I just go to starbase 24 and beam down on it. My PC shortly later crashes. First the sound goes "DRRRR" for a second, then "clack", screen is black, PC is rebooting.
I only had ONE try where this crash didn't occur at first. In this try I was alone on the starbase interior. My awayteam was not beamed down with me. I made it to the turbolift and got one floor down. After the new map was loaded, my awayteam was with me again. The crash followed shortly later.
Which leads me to a question: are you crashing on awaymissions or in space as well?
With me it's just awaymissions...
For me the only crash I remember vividly was the last one which was indeed a ground mission, interior based.
I am still afraid to run STO more however especially with reports of destroyed hardware and etc. My system is fairly good although I may try again in a bit while monitering the heat which I wasnt doing previously as I was not expecting any issues.
Kinda risky though still, if something happened I couldn't afford to fix it very quicky =/
It does not seem to be a heating issue with me but I don't do a lot of testing and crashing my computer over and over again and I don't wanna change a ton of settings when I have never even for the most recent of games had to change before. That's crazy to have to jump through hoops like that and it may or may not solve the problem.
I hope tomorrow we will see a developer comment on this as having already preordered and all that this may very well determine if I stay with the game or not. I am for sure not signing up for monthly subscription till I know this issue is resolved for certain. Likely had this been fixed or we had some type of dialog with the developers I would have a lifetime subscription already. But hey maybe I'm just POed and venting. This has been a frusterating process.
... That's crazy to have to jump through hoops like that and it may or may not solve the problem. ...
.
Well i see that as part of the Beta test. I would not want to do that on a final version, but when I got to play a beta, I might have to invest a bit as well. Not just take it as "oh yeah, play earlier"...
What startles me a bit is the number of BIG unresolved issues like this, considering, that the actual beta we play is already a release candidate and development has been going for very many years as of now...
A bunch of people who have never had this problem before, with many different computers, from around the globe suddenly all begin to have this error. The common factor is the game.
Are you really trying to say this is some coincidence that we all had HW fail, at the same time, and its unreasonable to assume the game is the critical factor?
I agree suing isn't what i would do, but if this game fries hundreds of dollars of my computer parts, damn right I'd want some payback! You can't just sell a game that kills hardware, then say oh well, it must be your system.
If you have read my other posts, I have not said it was coincidence at all, and that indeed it seems to be something involving the game. People crying lawsuit just get to me.
That being said more people have had no problems then who have. while hardware does vary there are also commonalities, the people having these problems may have more in common then they know. parts of circuit boards, capacitors etc are generally made in bulk and sold in lots to PSU manufacturers, or GPU makers. the people with this problem "could" conceivably gotten faulty parts without knowing it.
likewise there are software similarities between all the players aside from STO, C++ runtimes or directx9 for example. since both could effect GPUs and how they function, it could be a problem within directx that normally don't pop up, but this game makes odd "calls" to those faulty functions. in otherwords this could be microsoft's directx at fault. cryptic has no control over directx, they can send out a redistribution to ensure everyone has what is needed to run the game but microsoft is in charge of DX9s coding.
everyone is so hot on blaming STO for this but if it was "purely" STO causing this problem then everyone including myself would be having these problems. it is more likely though that this problem is caused by a combination of factors that STO just happened to push over the edge. yes it sucks for the victims, and yes it sucks for cryptic as such issues threaten to bury what promises to be a wonderful game, but it may not be something cryptic has control over, if for example, it has to do with a DX9 issue.
everyone is so hot on blaming STO for this but if it was "purely" STO causing this problem then everyone including myself would be having these problems. it is more likely though that this problem is caused by a combination of factors that STO just happened to push over the edge. yes it sucks for the victims, and yes it sucks for cryptic as such issues threaten to bury what promises to be a wonderful game, but it may not be something cryptic has control over, if for example, it has to do with a DX9 issue.
I think this is bang on the nose , although if there is some sort of dodgy interactions going on one would imagine Cryptic could do SOMETHING?
./sign with your opinion those idiotic "lawsuit" postings. They are pathetic and unnecessary
./sign that its the combination of the game and other things.
But: my system works fine with all the other games. STO is the only one acting up. And yes, as other factors my vary, THIS - the game - is the common one.
thanks for the acknowledgement, glad to see someone understands what i am saying
meant to add, cryptic may not have responded yet because in all likelyhood they are scouring every bit of coding they have to ensure it is not coding from STO directly. if they can narrow down where the error is coming from they can better help everyone. that takes time though.
they are also in somewhat of a catch 22 situation on replying. if they reply saying they are working on it, but have nothing to add about what the issue may be people will be upset. if they wait until they know where the problem is, like now, then people will be upset. but between the two options, spending the extra man power to look for the problem is better then wasting time posting here repeatedly that they "are looking into the problem" while more people blow up their computers.
this is one of the few good things about apple/mac computer architecture, everything is standardized so it is very easy to make sure all software works. the problem is lack of customization options, which is part of why windows based PCs are so popular, of course the downside is so many variations means it is impossible to be sure something will work on every computer flawlessly, companies instead have to attempt to make sure things work for the widest range possible and hope no "odd" configurations arise.
Its simple, the game pushes rigs very hard... too hard IMO for what you get, unoptimized code, perhaps some faults or bugs as well.
But the outcome is the same I've seen in games that push hard.
Basically it uses your RAM hard, so if you have substandard RAM, you'll crash. It pushes your GPU waaaay too hard so if you don't have good cooling/fan/air flow, or just happen to have gotten a non 1% yield card (ie not all gtx285's are of same quality, you could have a working, but hotter running batch). Since it is pushing your RAM and GPU very hard, it wouldn't be surprising that people who have had no issues with their PSU in other games, suddenly hard having trouble keeping their 12V rails up during times where GPU is maxed, CPU getting hit on all cores, and fans ramping up. A good 1000W PSU with a few dedicated 12V rails for GPU should be ok but a 600W with shared 12V might not.
Then there is operating system... people running Vista and Windows 7 would get a 'blip' and screen freeze while vista TDR resets graphics card (can alt+tab out and get back into game without restart), where others get black screens. Power down is either a built in MB protection against heat, but 95% of the time is a PSU issue IMO.
Bottom line is that they will have to fix the problem, and it mainly comes down to finding out why the game engine pushes systems so hard. The game looks good, but not THAT good. There are many other games that look better, even MMOs that look better than don't come close to pushing rigs like this thing is. And because people still get high use even on low settings, its probably something basic and low level, something is looping infinitely, things aren't occluded, processes are being duplicated or run multiple times needlessly... something like that.
In most games at ~ 37C MB, and ~ 50C CPU, can go up to 60C or so in games like Borderlands, Dragon Age, Everquest2, things like that. Once I fire up STO I'm in the 80s right away, and higher when the artifacts and freezing begins.
Its simple, the game pushes rigs very hard... too hard IMO for what you get, unoptimized code, perhaps some faults or bugs as well.
but it doesn't push all rigs hard
i am running a low end rig compared to the recommended specs for STO with no problems and almost no raise in temp. i also run dual monitors off the same GPU with video on the second screen. no stutters no over heats.
here is my rig:
Core2 duo e6300 (1.86ghz clock, one of the earlier duo chips on the market) with stock heatsink/fan
4 gigs ddr2 ram no extra cooling
HD4670 1gig GPU, stock cooling, dual monitors, high end video on both (game and movie or TV)
850watt PSU from Antec
Windows 7 ultimate
again almost no noticable raise in temps, no stuttering, no issues with this game caused by my system (other then internet lag issues perhaps)
in fact Aion pushes my rig harder then this game does.
everyone is so hot on blaming STO for this but if it was "purely" STO causing this problem then everyone including myself would be having these problems.
This is so not true. Yes, there are commonalities, but if you had read other posts of mine, there are quite a bit of variances as well from vendor to vendor.
PSU and MOBO are going to be the biggest differences here. Getting every MOBO and PSU model listed isn't an easy task. Obviously GPU differences will be a litlte different as well. Keep in mind too that GPUs are packaged a little differently as well.
Someone else mentioned that this game is pushing new features....such as? There's nothing in the game that's so spectacular that it would require the latest from nvidia or ati. Have you looked at the recommended HW? The recommended card is either an 8800GT or 3850. Hardly pushing the envelope here.
It's TRIBBLE code no matter how you look at it. As I said before, yeah, if your HW isn't up to snuff that's going to be an issue, but the SW is doing some f'd up routine that's causing it.
Have you done your own troubleshooting to come up to your conclusion? Writing a paragraph about cleaning your PC and whatnot doesn't mean much. I'm willing to bet that a lot of players here may be relatively PC savvy and have enough common sense to already maintain their rigs well.
This is a new one for me. Several times, when I crash, the screen goes black, and my computer power goes off. Just like if I pulled the plug from the wall, instant.
Now, I am just guessing, could it be overheating? My specs:
ATI Radeon 4850HD
Intel Core2 Quad CPU 8200 @ 2.33 GHz
6 Gigs RAM
I have never seen this happen. Is it possible for a game crash to turn off my comp?
Never had anything overheat the rig before, Crysis, all other MMOs etc.
Any thoughts?
EDIT: My event viewer does identify it as "system shutdown due to graphics card overheating".
There is an issue with STOL and nVidia drivers, specifically in the Physx architecture. Try turning off the Physx acceleration in you vNidia control Panel this may help. I recomend that you make sure that your video card is well ventilated and that you turn off any over clocking. Some cards will automatically over clock. I have 2 8800 gtx Ultra's and they get smokin hot. I feel your pain.
I have this bug too. All my drivers are up to date. There are NO heatproblems at my system.
All other games (DAW2, Battleforge, AOC) are running fine actually.
Only in STO my system shuts down without any reasons.
I used some diagnostic tools to save temperature values at GPU, CPU etc. ... nothing special.
Sto worked without problem till my login and patching at sunday evening.
I remember a identicle bug from realease of DoW2 and AOCbeta.
At this time the games where running fine, then they patched this bug in.
Both times it was mainly a problem with ATI graficcards and mainbords.
I remember some users which toasted they graficcrads.
Cleaning Computer, updating mainboard driver and a total reinstall of the OS did help a bid.
There was lots of solotions from support at this with new powersupply, new graficcards, bigger Fans.
In some single cases they helped a bid, but ~ 90% they was just a waste of time.
I guess more fine systems got ruined then helped.
I think it's easy to say for support and "well informted" users : check your heat, power supply, updates or some mystic system settings.
It`s more difficult from support to say "we made rubbish with last patch" then "maybe your system becomes to hot".
If someone realy would help they would ask for more detail like dxdiad or something like that.
Lets hope they undo the failure till release. It`s still beta.
Take care about your graficcards.
..... and sorry for my bad english.. hope you got all+
My System Windows XP prof
Mainboard ms 7094
AMD Opteron 180
2 GIG Ram
ATI 3850 HD
Have you looked at the specs? The CPU isn't going to be the big factor here, but you're higher than the recommended specs...
Can you define noticable? What are your idle/load temps?
ok i should amend, i am running a lower end rig then most people seem to be, at least compared to those with problems have posted.
and yes, noticeable as in my GPU temp idles at about 37 degrees and this game raises it to 51 degrees during fleet action with lots going on. Aion pushes my temps on the GPU up to 60s and higher (during low population areas), nothing like the massive 100 degree raises some are reporting.
as for my mention of commonalities in HW, mobo manufacturers and GPU manufacturers don't all make their own capacitors or other commmonly used mass produced peices, they buy them from companies that specialize in making such parts, furthermore, they don't all buy from the same company over and over either. likewise, the testing process for things like caps is to take a small sample from a batch, test them til they break, if they are beyond a certain threshhold then the batch passes, well if the test sample happened to not be faulty but the rest of the batch is then the whole batch is used and whoever got them is SOL.
an exampe for you, gateway a few years ago (2007ish if i remember correctly) made computers that had faulty caps in some of their motherboards, the computers all used the "same mobos" as it was the same model tower, but only "half" got the faulty caps and failed, the others got caps from a different company and had no issues. it is possible that you with the issues happened to get GPUs or PSUs all made with faulty caps from a similar batch, it is doubtful but possible.
yeah STO seems to be a common trigger, but since it is not a UNIVERSAL problem, it is not nesecarily STO at fault. the only way to prove beyond doubt that it is STO at fault is for literally everyone to have this problem (or at least the overwhelming majority), or for someone at cryptic tear apart their coding and point to one specific bit and tell everyone "yup there is the culprit" until either of those things happen it is as likely the problem is something with "your" setup (and by your i mean anyone with these problems)
if your car breaks down right after you put gas into the car you don't blame the gas do you? no you assume something when wrong with the engine itself and have it inspected. now it is fully possible that the mechanics will come back to you and say the gas was the cause, but that isn't the first thing to be blamed, it is just software after all. add to that, 20% of the people who bought gas at the same place breaks down too, yeah that makes it a bit more likely the gas is the problem BUT, what of the other 80% who didn't break down? big coincidence that the 20% bought the same gas, but still it is just a coincidence. and it is still more likely that the engine itself is to blame
sorry to beat a dead horse, but again this could be an issue with something like directx, which STO uses but which cryptic has no controll over, their version, and by extension my version, may differ from yours. all it would take is for STO to call on a portion of DX9 that works fine for them and me but in your copy is faulty, oops your machine broke, that is not cryptic's, or STO'ss fault though, it is DX9s faulty version, that you unfortunately have.
This thread got big when I wasn't looking, which is mostly a good thing, BUT:
I can't even really log into the game right now due to this issue. However, I'm not here to BLAME, or COMPLAIN. I'm here to TEST. Complaining about a potential bug is pretty moronic in a beta, ESPECIALLY over a weekend, when it's likely that quite a few people who will be looking into it are not in the office. Posting about it, discussing it, theorizing, etc, are all great and part of the beta process. Getting all ****ed about it and talking about lawsuits (???), acting like you've been cheated in some way, etc, are not part of the process. If you don't like the fact that things don't work perfectly in a beta then, sorry, but really, you don't need to be in one.
Seriously. The thing is, too, you don't even really have to know what you're doing! You don't have to be any kind of guru to beta test anything. You could be damn near invaluable just by being a guy that reports getting stuck in-game in five different places. The only thing you can't be is terrified of a bad result or bothered by the notion of changing some setting or experimenting. If you're that worried about your rig (which is perfectly reasonable if you're just a gamer) then DON'T join betas! It is COMMON to use old drivers, TRIBBLE around with all sorts of settings... it's just part of the process. If you aren't finding that part fun, not the game itself but figuring out why some part of it isn't working, then spare yourself the headache.
I don't even want to be mean about it, but if it isn't funfor you, it's game-related, and you're not getting paid DON'T DO IT. You're only TRIBBLE yourself.
Comments
1. Good advice, but this shouldn't be a requirement for playing any game, unless cryptic are planning on supplying a fan with the game and installing it themselves, something a large proprtion of the userbase would be uncomfortable doing.
2. True as true can be.
3. True again, but surely if ambient temperature is going to be a significant factor in the game's workability then this is a problem with the game itself...you can't limit the playing of STO to people in cold climates or only when it's chilly outside, kind of defies the point of an MMORPG.
4. Did you seriously just use an open forum to advocate the use of a VACUUM to clean the inside of a case? Using a vacuum cleaner generates huge amounts of static which is more than capable of utterly destroying a system in mere seconds. If you're going to use one, under no curcumstances use one of those little handheld things, and make sure you're using the hose at a good distance from the unit itself. Be sure to ground yourself before and after using the vac, avoid doing it on carpet. You have been warned.
5. Good advice, hopefully your system won't end up sounding like a jet engine...
6. This actually works quite well in many cases, but yeah, neither professional, tidy or particularly safe if you're not careful.
7. Sound advice, but again, who's going to pay any amount of money for a graphics card and then be happy with not using it to its maximum potential- particularly those with high end cards which inevitably are more prone to oveheating. Cryptic can't POSSIBLY accept this as a viable fix of any sort?
I think you might be on to something with the shifting load on to CPU idea, let's hope they can implement something like this...
Also, about the whole Cryptic buying you a fan - you have a upgrade your system often in order to play the greatest and latest games all the time. So I'll agree to disagree there - Cryptic could have been more sensitive to requires they're passing on the customers, but this isn't anything new per say.
Can't help but agree to an extent, but the system requirements aren't exactly huge; top-end Crysis rigs are much bigger than STO, and in a lot of cases yeah, you might upgrade a graphics card, maybe a processor or RAM to run a new game, but to add a FAN to an existing rig which ALREADY fulfils or exceeds the recommended requirements seems a little out there....
A very small portion of players are crashing after playing the game 20-30 minutes. Myself and the majority of "real world" technicians (Meaning we get payed to fix and learn about these problems) immediately agree that you are having an overheating issue.
Unless you think Star Trek Online wrote a virus in their game that specifically looks at your GPU and says "You are now going to reboot and flag overheating on the operating system's error log"
Get rid of your ridiculous non-factory overclocks on your undercooled video card.
Go clean your video card, yes even clean out those fins because that's where all the dust is stuck generally.
Grab a can of compressed air or a shop-vac and blow the system out (Yes of course when the system is turned off and unplugged) Also yes of course the power supply unit. Again yes the RAM, no kidding the CPU and it's fins too!
This game isn't designed for 10 year old computers with a 5 year old video card playing on max settings. Try turning it to minimum settings and see if your computer lasts longer?
For me it wasn't a heat issue, I pulled my box apart immediately and was able to touch all my heat sinks no problem. With two HD plugged in and powered, my system froze in the boot stage trying to locate Sata-1. I unplugged the second HD and my system still froze on locate Sata-1. I moved the plug that was in HD2 to HD1 and left HD2 unplugged and it booted immediately. I saw in the forums that some others were running bench mark tests so I grabbed a couple and they performed just fine (with the now current wiring).
Please do not deliver false input. It makes the poor cryptic developers chase red herrings. My system does not overheat. It just crashes.
There is no overheating visible in GPUz even short before the crash. There is nothing in the eventviewer that indicates any problem with that. My graphics accellerator does not even pump up the fan, as he does with other games that strain the graphics a bit.
Other question to the (still very quiet) developers: is there a way to log the STO-events? I would really like to help, but you are not making this easy
I have a fully rigged out game laptop that should be able to handle STO and then some. I've played SWG and WoW on this machine and never had an issue. When mine crashes I get maybe 4-5 mins into game play and then POOF
I would REALLY see it as a sign of progress if the Devs could post SOMETHING about progress on this issue. For days all I've been able to find is endless other users with the same problem debating back and forth about heating and upgrades and drivers etc etc. I want to hear someone FROM CRYPTIC answering what the heck is going on. I'm getting cranky that I paid for a game I can't play!!!
I know OB is a difficult time, but this doesn't get me overly excited about future problems that may come up when they can't even keep us informed of progress in correcting the issue. I had more than my fill of problems playing SWG and dealing with Sony Online and thier lack of communication and progress. I was REALLY hoping Crypic would be on the ball here.
I WANT TO PLAY DAMMINT!!! :mad:
I have no overclocks, regularly clean my PC out, including the graphics card with compressed air to remove dust. My rig is barely a year old, except for the graphics card which is a bit newer than that, my case is an Antec 900 with all fans on medium or high so 'undercooled' doesn't really apply, and I had everything on medium at a reduced resolution. And I'm not a fan of too much warmth, I'm in the UK and have my bedroom window open all the time- ambient in my room rarely breaks 18 degrees. Anything else you want to blame?
Surely there are too many people experiencing this for the game to be utterly blameless?
I don't think temperature can be ruled out, particualrly following my graphics card having spontaneously died following a crash, but if we accept temperature as the culprit and I can reasonably assess that it's not me which is at fault, perhaps the game is a contributing factor to overheating somehow.
what are your computer specs? Not to be rude, but a year ago you could build a m-itx board with an atom CPU and toss in a graphic card of your choosing.
./sign for that part
I can only speak for my system: I use catalyst 9.12 now. Had version 9.08 before. I maintain my system well (am working in IT business btw). The loudest part of my system is the fan of my HD4870. I always hear when it winds up (as i.e. in X3) whenever the GPU needs more cooling. And I tell you again, in STO it goes up only slightly after the start and then stays constant. GPUz confirms, that the temp is around 80°. So this CAN'T be the prob, at least not in my system.
But if temp is no issue in some systems, but the crashes are all the same on all systems, then temp is ruled out as a cause for the crashes (to use some vulcan style logic).
Please, cryptic, tell us if there is some clue or at least what you are after, concerning this problem.
TIA
I still dispute any heating issue. I crashed yesterday just sitting at the log in screen, not even IN the game. I can't stay in the game long enough to get overheated.
When I first got in open beta, it would crash every 10-20 minutes, and my pc would just power off. When they shut the servers down and patched, this problem went away. Last night I was playing, and I started having the same issue again, only on one particular mission (can't remember what it was called off the top of my head) and at that time I was monitoring the temperature, and it wasn't very hot when it shut down on me.
I'm thinking it might be my power supply, since I'm running an i5 system with a 9500+8gb of ram + 500W power supply. We'll see later though, I'm gonna try borrowing a friend's 1000W power supply.
I only had ONE try where this crash didn't occur at first. In this try I was alone on the starbase interior. My awayteam was not beamed down with me. I made it to the turbolift and got one floor down. After the new map was loaded, my awayteam was with me again. The crash followed shortly later.
Which leads me to a question: are you crashing on awaymissions or in space as well?
With me it's just awaymissions...
I am still afraid to run STO more however especially with reports of destroyed hardware and etc. My system is fairly good although I may try again in a bit while monitering the heat which I wasnt doing previously as I was not expecting any issues.
Kinda risky though still, if something happened I couldn't afford to fix it very quicky =/
I hope tomorrow we will see a developer comment on this as having already preordered and all that this may very well determine if I stay with the game or not. I am for sure not signing up for monthly subscription till I know this issue is resolved for certain. Likely had this been fixed or we had some type of dialog with the developers I would have a lifetime subscription already. But hey maybe I'm just POed and venting. This has been a frusterating process.
Well i see that as part of the Beta test. I would not want to do that on a final version, but when I got to play a beta, I might have to invest a bit as well. Not just take it as "oh yeah, play earlier"...
What startles me a bit is the number of BIG unresolved issues like this, considering, that the actual beta we play is already a release candidate and development has been going for very many years as of now...
If you have read my other posts, I have not said it was coincidence at all, and that indeed it seems to be something involving the game. People crying lawsuit just get to me.
That being said more people have had no problems then who have. while hardware does vary there are also commonalities, the people having these problems may have more in common then they know. parts of circuit boards, capacitors etc are generally made in bulk and sold in lots to PSU manufacturers, or GPU makers. the people with this problem "could" conceivably gotten faulty parts without knowing it.
likewise there are software similarities between all the players aside from STO, C++ runtimes or directx9 for example. since both could effect GPUs and how they function, it could be a problem within directx that normally don't pop up, but this game makes odd "calls" to those faulty functions. in otherwords this could be microsoft's directx at fault. cryptic has no control over directx, they can send out a redistribution to ensure everyone has what is needed to run the game but microsoft is in charge of DX9s coding.
everyone is so hot on blaming STO for this but if it was "purely" STO causing this problem then everyone including myself would be having these problems. it is more likely though that this problem is caused by a combination of factors that STO just happened to push over the edge. yes it sucks for the victims, and yes it sucks for cryptic as such issues threaten to bury what promises to be a wonderful game, but it may not be something cryptic has control over, if for example, it has to do with a DX9 issue.
I think this is bang on the nose
./sign that its the combination of the game and other things.
But: my system works fine with all the other games. STO is the only one acting up. And yes, as other factors my vary, THIS - the game - is the common one.
thanks for the acknowledgement, glad to see someone understands what i am saying
meant to add, cryptic may not have responded yet because in all likelyhood they are scouring every bit of coding they have to ensure it is not coding from STO directly. if they can narrow down where the error is coming from they can better help everyone. that takes time though.
they are also in somewhat of a catch 22 situation on replying. if they reply saying they are working on it, but have nothing to add about what the issue may be people will be upset. if they wait until they know where the problem is, like now, then people will be upset. but between the two options, spending the extra man power to look for the problem is better then wasting time posting here repeatedly that they "are looking into the problem" while more people blow up their computers.
this is one of the few good things about apple/mac computer architecture, everything is standardized so it is very easy to make sure all software works. the problem is lack of customization options, which is part of why windows based PCs are so popular, of course the downside is so many variations means it is impossible to be sure something will work on every computer flawlessly, companies instead have to attempt to make sure things work for the widest range possible and hope no "odd" configurations arise.
But the outcome is the same I've seen in games that push hard.
Basically it uses your RAM hard, so if you have substandard RAM, you'll crash. It pushes your GPU waaaay too hard so if you don't have good cooling/fan/air flow, or just happen to have gotten a non 1% yield card (ie not all gtx285's are of same quality, you could have a working, but hotter running batch). Since it is pushing your RAM and GPU very hard, it wouldn't be surprising that people who have had no issues with their PSU in other games, suddenly hard having trouble keeping their 12V rails up during times where GPU is maxed, CPU getting hit on all cores, and fans ramping up. A good 1000W PSU with a few dedicated 12V rails for GPU should be ok but a 600W with shared 12V might not.
Then there is operating system... people running Vista and Windows 7 would get a 'blip' and screen freeze while vista TDR resets graphics card (can alt+tab out and get back into game without restart), where others get black screens. Power down is either a built in MB protection against heat, but 95% of the time is a PSU issue IMO.
Bottom line is that they will have to fix the problem, and it mainly comes down to finding out why the game engine pushes systems so hard. The game looks good, but not THAT good. There are many other games that look better, even MMOs that look better than don't come close to pushing rigs like this thing is. And because people still get high use even on low settings, its probably something basic and low level, something is looping infinitely, things aren't occluded, processes are being duplicated or run multiple times needlessly... something like that.
In most games at ~ 37C MB, and ~ 50C CPU, can go up to 60C or so in games like Borderlands, Dragon Age, Everquest2, things like that. Once I fire up STO I'm in the 80s right away, and higher when the artifacts and freezing begins.
Intel Core i& 940 @ 3.2ghz
4gb Corsair
Nvidia GTX285
Silverlight 1000W
but it doesn't push all rigs hard
i am running a low end rig compared to the recommended specs for STO with no problems and almost no raise in temp. i also run dual monitors off the same GPU with video on the second screen. no stutters no over heats.
here is my rig:
Core2 duo e6300 (1.86ghz clock, one of the earlier duo chips on the market) with stock heatsink/fan
4 gigs ddr2 ram no extra cooling
HD4670 1gig GPU, stock cooling, dual monitors, high end video on both (game and movie or TV)
850watt PSU from Antec
Windows 7 ultimate
again almost no noticable raise in temps, no stuttering, no issues with this game caused by my system (other then internet lag issues perhaps)
in fact Aion pushes my rig harder then this game does.
This is so not true. Yes, there are commonalities, but if you had read other posts of mine, there are quite a bit of variances as well from vendor to vendor.
PSU and MOBO are going to be the biggest differences here. Getting every MOBO and PSU model listed isn't an easy task. Obviously GPU differences will be a litlte different as well. Keep in mind too that GPUs are packaged a little differently as well.
Someone else mentioned that this game is pushing new features....such as? There's nothing in the game that's so spectacular that it would require the latest from nvidia or ati. Have you looked at the recommended HW? The recommended card is either an 8800GT or 3850. Hardly pushing the envelope here.
It's TRIBBLE code no matter how you look at it. As I said before, yeah, if your HW isn't up to snuff that's going to be an issue, but the SW is doing some f'd up routine that's causing it.
Have you done your own troubleshooting to come up to your conclusion? Writing a paragraph about cleaning your PC and whatnot doesn't mean much. I'm willing to bet that a lot of players here may be relatively PC savvy and have enough common sense to already maintain their rigs well.
Have you looked at the specs? The CPU isn't going to be the big factor here, but you're higher than the recommended specs...
Can you define noticable? What are your idle/load temps?
There is an issue with STOL and nVidia drivers, specifically in the Physx architecture. Try turning off the Physx acceleration in you vNidia control Panel this may help. I recomend that you make sure that your video card is well ventilated and that you turn off any over clocking. Some cards will automatically over clock. I have 2 8800 gtx Ultra's and they get smokin hot. I feel your pain.
Mr.Heck
I have this bug too. All my drivers are up to date. There are NO heatproblems at my system.
All other games (DAW2, Battleforge, AOC) are running fine actually.
Only in STO my system shuts down without any reasons.
I used some diagnostic tools to save temperature values at GPU, CPU etc. ... nothing special.
Sto worked without problem till my login and patching at sunday evening.
I remember a identicle bug from realease of DoW2 and AOCbeta.
At this time the games where running fine, then they patched this bug in.
Both times it was mainly a problem with ATI graficcards and mainbords.
I remember some users which toasted they graficcrads.
Cleaning Computer, updating mainboard driver and a total reinstall of the OS did help a bid.
There was lots of solotions from support at this with new powersupply, new graficcards, bigger Fans.
In some single cases they helped a bid, but ~ 90% they was just a waste of time.
I guess more fine systems got ruined then helped.
I think it's easy to say for support and "well informted" users : check your heat, power supply, updates or some mystic system settings.
It`s more difficult from support to say "we made rubbish with last patch" then "maybe your system becomes to hot".
If someone realy would help they would ask for more detail like dxdiad or something like that.
Lets hope they undo the failure till release. It`s still beta.
Take care about your graficcards.
..... and sorry for my bad english.. hope you got all+
My System Windows XP prof
Mainboard ms 7094
AMD Opteron 180
2 GIG Ram
ATI 3850 HD
ok i should amend, i am running a lower end rig then most people seem to be, at least compared to those with problems have posted.
and yes, noticeable as in my GPU temp idles at about 37 degrees and this game raises it to 51 degrees during fleet action with lots going on. Aion pushes my temps on the GPU up to 60s and higher (during low population areas), nothing like the massive 100 degree raises some are reporting.
as for my mention of commonalities in HW, mobo manufacturers and GPU manufacturers don't all make their own capacitors or other commmonly used mass produced peices, they buy them from companies that specialize in making such parts, furthermore, they don't all buy from the same company over and over either. likewise, the testing process for things like caps is to take a small sample from a batch, test them til they break, if they are beyond a certain threshhold then the batch passes, well if the test sample happened to not be faulty but the rest of the batch is then the whole batch is used and whoever got them is SOL.
an exampe for you, gateway a few years ago (2007ish if i remember correctly) made computers that had faulty caps in some of their motherboards, the computers all used the "same mobos" as it was the same model tower, but only "half" got the faulty caps and failed, the others got caps from a different company and had no issues. it is possible that you with the issues happened to get GPUs or PSUs all made with faulty caps from a similar batch, it is doubtful but possible.
yeah STO seems to be a common trigger, but since it is not a UNIVERSAL problem, it is not nesecarily STO at fault. the only way to prove beyond doubt that it is STO at fault is for literally everyone to have this problem (or at least the overwhelming majority), or for someone at cryptic tear apart their coding and point to one specific bit and tell everyone "yup there is the culprit" until either of those things happen it is as likely the problem is something with "your" setup (and by your i mean anyone with these problems)
if your car breaks down right after you put gas into the car you don't blame the gas do you? no you assume something when wrong with the engine itself and have it inspected. now it is fully possible that the mechanics will come back to you and say the gas was the cause, but that isn't the first thing to be blamed, it is just software after all. add to that, 20% of the people who bought gas at the same place breaks down too, yeah that makes it a bit more likely the gas is the problem BUT, what of the other 80% who didn't break down? big coincidence that the 20% bought the same gas, but still it is just a coincidence. and it is still more likely that the engine itself is to blame
sorry to beat a dead horse, but again this could be an issue with something like directx, which STO uses but which cryptic has no controll over, their version, and by extension my version, may differ from yours. all it would take is for STO to call on a portion of DX9 that works fine for them and me but in your copy is faulty, oops your machine broke, that is not cryptic's, or STO'ss fault though, it is DX9s faulty version, that you unfortunately have.
I can't even really log into the game right now due to this issue. However, I'm not here to BLAME, or COMPLAIN. I'm here to TEST. Complaining about a potential bug is pretty moronic in a beta, ESPECIALLY over a weekend, when it's likely that quite a few people who will be looking into it are not in the office. Posting about it, discussing it, theorizing, etc, are all great and part of the beta process. Getting all ****ed about it and talking about lawsuits (???), acting like you've been cheated in some way, etc, are not part of the process. If you don't like the fact that things don't work perfectly in a beta then, sorry, but really, you don't need to be in one.
Seriously. The thing is, too, you don't even really have to know what you're doing! You don't have to be any kind of guru to beta test anything. You could be damn near invaluable just by being a guy that reports getting stuck in-game in five different places. The only thing you can't be is terrified of a bad result or bothered by the notion of changing some setting or experimenting. If you're that worried about your rig (which is perfectly reasonable if you're just a gamer) then DON'T join betas! It is COMMON to use old drivers, TRIBBLE around with all sorts of settings... it's just part of the process. If you aren't finding that part fun, not the game itself but figuring out why some part of it isn't working, then spare yourself the headache.
I don't even want to be mean about it, but if it isn't funfor you, it's game-related, and you're not getting paid DON'T DO IT. You're only TRIBBLE yourself.
Bump
And being a US company, they may be off tomorrow anyway so...