Now you're just going off into conspiracy theory. I advise you to quit while you're ahead. And please stop threatening me via PM.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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It may not be feasible to implement all of those ideas, baddmoon - but I for one would happily pay quite a lot of Dil to have a tailor somewhere aboard my ship. It'd be great if I didn't have to go to a starbase every time I wanted to make some minor modification to my outfits. (I'd happily pay a much smaller amount to have the NPCs on my ship wear the ship uniform I designated, but I acknowledge that with the sheer variety of mix-and-match uniform parts we have, this may be impractical to code.)
Jon, I get it. It makes sense to be able to change your clothes in your Captain's Quarters or even your Ready Room. Don't you think that occurred to them? This is supposed to be a social game, though. They want you doing certain things on social maps, so that you can interact with other players. Moving things around for the sake of convenience diminishes the game, though. We've already pretty much lost ship interiors due to the convenience of moving DOFFing from inside the ship to the UI. What else do you want to lose for the sake of convenience?
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Now you're just going off into conspiracy theory. I advise you to quit while you're ahead.
I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory... Just a theory. Like I said, none of us here are privy to the factors involved in the business decisions Cryptics owners have made. We're not even privy to development decisions until they are implemented. So all I or anyone else can do is speculate.
We do know that the small one-off RD sinks they've implemented since the DilEx hit critical mass have just been short term solutions to a problem that needs a long-term solution. And I think we can agree that a long-term solution will require actual development or modification of gameplay content, with wide spread introduction of dilithium sinks where none currently exist. Anything less than that would be just a treatment for what ails the DilEx, not a cure.
You clearly don't understand. It doesn't matter what color I choose to type in, that title is still next to my name, and if I say you're violating a forum rule, then you're violating a forum rule. You come after me again via PM and you can take a vacation.
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Honestly? I for one wouldn't use the social areas any less if I could change my uniform before disembarking. I'm usually at ESD/the Qo'noS shipyard/mol'Rihan to access services and update my ship anyway. Maybe I'm just weird, I dunno.
if we could change the ship sizes for dilithium individually.
and change the effects of weapons. maybe thise could be a good dil sinks.
Changing ship sizes is an interesting one.
Some ships feel too small, like the Tucker or Kirk class. I'd also pay dilithium if they added an option that changes the way your ship moves (for example: make that Tucker class fly like a Kirk, ie with less rotation along the Y-axis so that it doesn't look like you're flying an airplane).
Idk about changing ship sizes. To me that would throw the scale of everything out of wack. As far as maneuverability, they already have something for that via the endeavor system and various consoles.
Changing sizes -- people do that with their teeny-tiny or super-giant captains on ground maps and it often feels like it's done to troll other players.
That’s with captains and bridge officers though, with people you have different sizes and builds just like in real life, as far as ships, you are stuck with one size of ship per class of ships.
Changing sizes -- people do that with their teeny-tiny or super-giant captains on ground maps and it often feels like it's done to troll other players.
I get WHY people would want this, both for Characters AND for ships, and more so, the engine already has this stuff in there via champions but i think this falls under the hard "CBS says no" stance. They have to protect canon and they've been usually pretty solid on Cryptic for keeping things pretty straight forward because of it. While we HAVE the tech to do so, they just don't have the permission. Otherwise mini Galaxy classes or giant Danubes would be going crazy in space.
Kael was saying that with Lower Decks, he was hoping they might lift some of that strictness, but even then, i doubt they would allow for resizing the ships.
The supply/demand issues are well known all around.
Removing the cap would not solve the problem, and would eventually just get so expensive that it wouldn't even be worth it. Devs are looking at long term data to help bring it back down, even if we don't get play by play word on what they're doing. And we've had many threads come up regarding this same issue. Usually always bounces around some of the same ideas that wouldn't work, or would make things worse. Then the confrontations and the accusations start flying, which brings in us mods to try and calm things down or just shut it down outright depending on how far gone it is.
Technically right now we CAN buy ships with Dilithium, however its only really T1-4, specifically the old C-Store ships like the Exeter Cruiser Refit. We really do need some worthwhile, sustainable sinks. That part is not in dispute. However removing the Exchange cap would just make things much worse. As of right now its about a month's wait at 500/1. Removing that cap would just make that 500 DL per 1 Zen skyrocket to a point the market will probably implode outright.
With all this being true, in order for the any economic system to work properly, inflation must be allowed for.
I remember years back when the conversion rate was in the high 200s and was considered expensive if it reached the 300s, if my memory serves correctly.
So as the cost of C-store packs and items goes up, the cost of items on the Market goes up (In other words Energy Credits and Zen buys less today than it did a five years ago), today you can find items on the C-store that literally are of $600 value. And the best ships can no longer even be sold on the Market because they hit a cap as well. There was a time when no one would have paid 1,500,000,000 EC for a ship, not so today.
You have to restore the balance of the game, Grinders need to be rewarded somehow for grinding Dil, while those willing to spend Zen to get it, can pay the higher rates, or go grind it themselves. Otherwise you will lose the players willing to grind, which makes for less players, less players makes for less paying players as well as paying players have less interest in playing in an unpopulated world.
An easy fix is moving the cap up every three months, in 100 increments, until a new balance is found. The value of the Dil will be determined by those willing to pay for it, I am a LTS paying player, but I also like to grind for Zen as well, the inability for me to do both at this time is a turn-off, sometimes I just want to grind out that extra four dollars of Zen I need rather than put it on the credit card.
I am sure this impacts more playing players, such as myself, than you believe, and it is probably costing STO more than it is making them.
In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
Well, that was discouraging, spent a ten minutes typing a reply, then clicked the edit to change one letter, and poof the whole post disappeared when I hit save.
Oh well.
In short then, in order for the economy of STO to work properly inflation must be allowed for.
Items in the C-Store have gone up, you can now find items on there of $600 value.
Items in the Marketplace have gone up, the rarest items today cannot even be listed on the Marketplace due to the cap there as well.
The Cap on Dil is not helping the game, it will however help kill it.
Grinders who are willing to put in the hours getting Dil need to be rewarded, they are not due to the cap.
People willing to pay for Dil will have to pay the higher cost, or go grind the Dil themselves.
Losing the players willing to Grind for Dil, due to their frustration, will cost you paying players as well.
In fact, I am a LTS and paying player, but I want the ability to convert my Dil to Zen, and this is now lost to me, which does not make me spend more money, rather it makes me spend less time playing the game.
If those FTP players leave because they cannot be rewarded by selling Dil, the MMO becomes less populated, which in turn has paying players leave, who have no interest in an unpopulated world, or a world that their friends abandon for another game.
The Dil to Zen cap needs to be lifted, even if in increments of 100 every few months, until a new balance is found. There was a time when you could convert Dil to Zen in the 200s... inflation cannot be capped.
In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
I'd like to see a canon explanation of Gorn physiology first. I can hypothesize life cycles all day long, but that's just fanfic (not denigrating fanfic by any means - I've committed a fair bit of it myself - but the official Star Trek storyline can't be held captive by the imagination of just anyone who trots down the pike).
I think that for the exchange to work correctly it would be to increase the exchange rate, this may cause many people to disagree, but is it fair 500 dil / 1 Zen???
With the increase in the dollar, it is not feasible to make this type of exchange since there is a lot of demand to buy ZEN because many of the ZEN buyers think that it is a very low value to sell it, some do it because they need DIL for some job or to get something they need or simply sell what they have left over after buying what they want.
It may be that with the increase of DIL/ZEN the economy of the game will change, prices will increase but STO will remain active and we will play.
Why not removing the player cap to create a fleet. If everyone whom want to could create their own fleet, they would have to spend a lot of dill to rank up their fleet projects. Of course the amount of dill require for said project could be slightly reduced to matched the number of players in the fleet. Then Monthly events for fleet and alliance could be created using already available assets, with exclusive reward to those event. (ie..resources toward fleet projects). Also why not allow players to trade amoungst each others using dill for currency.
Ok, the Gorn thing is off topic, so let's not derail the thread. Please, create a new thread if you'd like to discuss that. The Dilithium Exchange cap is an FCT topic, so let's please move on to more fruitful discussion. Thank you.
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Idk about changing ship sizes. To me that would throw the scale of everything out of wack. As far as maneuverability, they already have something for that via the endeavor system and various consoles.
True, we can change and improve maneuverability. But the thing I was describing - where some ships fly more like airplane's while others barely move along the Y-axis when turning - isn't available yet.
As for ship sizes: I'm not suggesting that everything should be able to be as big as an Universe class. But seeing a cruiser - supposedly a big type of ship - like the Tucker class or even an Odyssey being dwarfed in like half the instances to the point it might as well have been an escort doesn't seem quite right either.
Even with some limitations as to how big each ship could be made, it's something that I'd certainly be willing to pay for.
And there are other, similar things that I can think of which might help dilithium spending. More kitbash options, fleet modules and upgrade tokens for dilithium (which would also lower demand for Zen) just to name a few things. If they ever get around adding things like the long requested sex and species change tokens, those could be added to the dilithium store too.
Maybe also move similar services like name change tokens from the C-store to the dilithium stores.
Why not removing the player cap to create a fleet. If everyone whom want to could create their own fleet, they would have to spend a lot of dill to rank up their fleet projects. Of course the amount of dill require for said project could be slightly reduced to matched the number of players in the fleet. Then Monthly events for fleet and alliance could be created using already available assets, with exclusive reward to those event. (ie..resources toward fleet projects). Also why not allow players to trade amoungst each others using dill for currency.
I doubt that many people are creating fleets because they love completing even more projects though.
Most private or small group-newer fleets are probably created for roleplaying reasons or to serve as extra bank space. I don't think that more or greater ease of creating fleets will automatically mean an (significant) increase in dilithium spending.
I do like like the idea of scaling down project requirements and have them be based a bit on fleet roster size. I think that could have a serious and positive impact on fleet creation with the intention of actually building the bases and hence on dilithium spending.
They addressed the scaling of Fleet projects, though, with the Armada system. I doubt that they'd scale it more than that. 🤷🏼♀️
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@liberatrix I've verified your profile. You shouldn't have any more issues with posting.
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@liberatrix I've verified your profile. You shouldn't have any more issues with posting.
Thank you, not a heavy poster, it may have been user error that caused the disappearance of the initial reply.
I do believe that the Dil to Zen issue is a more serious issue than those who make the decisions on such things are crediting it with.
This is one of those matters that can heavily impact the survivability of the game, over time.
STO had for many years a well balanced economic environment, one of the best in MMOs actually, with the three different currencies a player could find a variety of ways of obtaining what they wanted, it encouraged those who were FTP to put in the effort and they could ultimately achieve anything a PTP player could. This created a healthy environment for all.
It appears this has become broken since I last heavily played the game (recently returning from over a year's absence) I found I can no longer trade my Dil for Zen. If it were double the current price and 1,000 Dil per 1 Zen, if I am willing to pay that conversion rate it should be available to me. If no one else is willing to pay that, then clearly, the exchange rate will find a lower average/amount.
Right now, those willing to grind to get Dil cannot convert that easily to Zen, this takes away the motivation to grind Dil, or perhaps even to play the game, as those items or ships the player may want to work towards are now no longer achievable through grinding Dil.
From many years of experience playing STO, I know how to make tens of thousands of Dil through a couple hours of playing, or cycling through my various characters, this is not a way I usually get my Zen, but in the past when I was a couple dozen Zen away from getting something I wanted, I found grinding some Dil to sell a more satisfying way of achieving it. I am sure I am not alone in this, so, this impacts how PTP players interact with the game as well. It's not that I can't front cash for Zen, it's that I don't always want to.
Its a dilemma that requires attention, before it permanently harms not just the game economy(ies) but the level of player involvement.
In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
> @liberatrix said:
> Its a dilemma that requires attention, before it permanently harms not just the game economy(ies) but the level of player
> involvement.
I'm not seeing that. Let's say things are just left like they are now, and RD never gets a single meaningful thing added to it. Sure, eventually it won't move at all, or so slowly that it would take multiple months for an order to process on the exchange.
In the meantime, there is no shortage of Zen being bought and spent on ship bundles and lockbox keys. As long as Cryptic keeps producing and relesing new ships, the level of player involvement will not diminish.
And judging by how often there's a new ship bundle or something to buy a key to unlock for just a chance to get it, This will not change. The people who want to get Zen without spending a penny of their OWN real money may be annoyed at having to grind so hard to afford enough Zen with RD, and at having to wait so long for their orders to be filled, but the truth is, if they really want a specific ship badly enough, and they actually enjoy playing the game, they'll open their wallet.
Those who don't really enjoy the game, and refuse to continue playing if they can't get enough Zen for free in a reasonable timeframe will not hurt the game's bottom line in the slightest. These are people who likely have never spent a dime on the game, and never will. Gearbox, to whom all the profits go before the salaries of Cryptic are paid, won't miss those folks if they stop playing.
No... For now and the foreseeable future, Zen is the strongest currency in STO's economy. I am just going to accept this as fact and decide whether or not whatever they sell for Zen is worth the limited entertainment funds I have available to blow on game stuff. Do I hope they get things sorted and turn things around? Of course. But I won't hold my breat over that hope.
I disagree, my perspective is based on 20 years of MMO play.
I have seen other games die that did not have to, because of similar outlook, they tried to make it harder for FTP players to interact in the economy without actually paying money, this drastically reduced the population of players, over time. The other factor was a lack of new content coming in to draw in the paying players as well, it is not typically one thing that kills a good game.
FTP players have a critical role in MMOs, they grind materials for those that don't want to waste the game time looking for necessary materials and who pay all cash, typical of DPSers and hardcore players.
They also fill the ranks in Guilds, or in this case Fleets, they do plenty of grinding on behalf of fleets as well in STO.
They populate the game, so that when you call up a scenario there are players in the que waiting to play/grind.
Also, many FTP players are young people who are learning to play the game, this is critical to continuing to have a healthy game future.
Lastly, there are foreign FTP players that do not have the level of disposable income that you and I have.
In this galaxy there’s a mathematical probability of three million Earth-type planets. And in the universe, three million million galaxies like this.
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I wouldn't call it a conspiracy theory... Just a theory. Like I said, none of us here are privy to the factors involved in the business decisions Cryptics owners have made. We're not even privy to development decisions until they are implemented. So all I or anyone else can do is speculate.
We do know that the small one-off RD sinks they've implemented since the DilEx hit critical mass have just been short term solutions to a problem that needs a long-term solution. And I think we can agree that a long-term solution will require actual development or modification of gameplay content, with wide spread introduction of dilithium sinks where none currently exist. Anything less than that would be just a treatment for what ails the DilEx, not a cure.
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Changing ship sizes is an interesting one.
Some ships feel too small, like the Tucker or Kirk class. I'd also pay dilithium if they added an option that changes the way your ship moves (for example: make that Tucker class fly like a Kirk, ie with less rotation along the Y-axis so that it doesn't look like you're flying an airplane).
I get WHY people would want this, both for Characters AND for ships, and more so, the engine already has this stuff in there via champions but i think this falls under the hard "CBS says no" stance. They have to protect canon and they've been usually pretty solid on Cryptic for keeping things pretty straight forward because of it. While we HAVE the tech to do so, they just don't have the permission. Otherwise mini Galaxy classes or giant Danubes would be going crazy in space.
Kael was saying that with Lower Decks, he was hoping they might lift some of that strictness, but even then, i doubt they would allow for resizing the ships.
With all this being true, in order for the any economic system to work properly, inflation must be allowed for.
I remember years back when the conversion rate was in the high 200s and was considered expensive if it reached the 300s, if my memory serves correctly.
So as the cost of C-store packs and items goes up, the cost of items on the Market goes up (In other words Energy Credits and Zen buys less today than it did a five years ago), today you can find items on the C-store that literally are of $600 value. And the best ships can no longer even be sold on the Market because they hit a cap as well. There was a time when no one would have paid 1,500,000,000 EC for a ship, not so today.
You have to restore the balance of the game, Grinders need to be rewarded somehow for grinding Dil, while those willing to spend Zen to get it, can pay the higher rates, or go grind it themselves. Otherwise you will lose the players willing to grind, which makes for less players, less players makes for less paying players as well as paying players have less interest in playing in an unpopulated world.
An easy fix is moving the cap up every three months, in 100 increments, until a new balance is found. The value of the Dil will be determined by those willing to pay for it, I am a LTS paying player, but I also like to grind for Zen as well, the inability for me to do both at this time is a turn-off, sometimes I just want to grind out that extra four dollars of Zen I need rather than put it on the credit card.
I am sure this impacts more playing players, such as myself, than you believe, and it is probably costing STO more than it is making them.
Oh well.
In short then, in order for the economy of STO to work properly inflation must be allowed for.
Items in the C-Store have gone up, you can now find items on there of $600 value.
Items in the Marketplace have gone up, the rarest items today cannot even be listed on the Marketplace due to the cap there as well.
The Cap on Dil is not helping the game, it will however help kill it.
Grinders who are willing to put in the hours getting Dil need to be rewarded, they are not due to the cap.
People willing to pay for Dil will have to pay the higher cost, or go grind the Dil themselves.
Losing the players willing to Grind for Dil, due to their frustration, will cost you paying players as well.
In fact, I am a LTS and paying player, but I want the ability to convert my Dil to Zen, and this is now lost to me, which does not make me spend more money, rather it makes me spend less time playing the game.
If those FTP players leave because they cannot be rewarded by selling Dil, the MMO becomes less populated, which in turn has paying players leave, who have no interest in an unpopulated world, or a world that their friends abandon for another game.
The Dil to Zen cap needs to be lifted, even if in increments of 100 every few months, until a new balance is found. There was a time when you could convert Dil to Zen in the 200s... inflation cannot be capped.
Why not removing the player cap to create a fleet. If everyone whom want to could create their own fleet, they would have to spend a lot of dill to rank up their fleet projects. Of course the amount of dill require for said project could be slightly reduced to matched the number of players in the fleet. Then Monthly events for fleet and alliance could be created using already available assets, with exclusive reward to those event. (ie..resources toward fleet projects). Also why not allow players to trade amoungst each others using dill for currency.
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True, we can change and improve maneuverability. But the thing I was describing - where some ships fly more like airplane's while others barely move along the Y-axis when turning - isn't available yet.
As for ship sizes: I'm not suggesting that everything should be able to be as big as an Universe class. But seeing a cruiser - supposedly a big type of ship - like the Tucker class or even an Odyssey being dwarfed in like half the instances to the point it might as well have been an escort doesn't seem quite right either.
Even with some limitations as to how big each ship could be made, it's something that I'd certainly be willing to pay for.
And there are other, similar things that I can think of which might help dilithium spending. More kitbash options, fleet modules and upgrade tokens for dilithium (which would also lower demand for Zen) just to name a few things. If they ever get around adding things like the long requested sex and species change tokens, those could be added to the dilithium store too.
Maybe also move similar services like name change tokens from the C-store to the dilithium stores.
I doubt that many people are creating fleets because they love completing even more projects though.
Most private or small group-newer fleets are probably created for roleplaying reasons or to serve as extra bank space. I don't think that more or greater ease of creating fleets will automatically mean an (significant) increase in dilithium spending.
I do like like the idea of scaling down project requirements and have them be based a bit on fleet roster size. I think that could have a serious and positive impact on fleet creation with the intention of actually building the bases and hence on dilithium spending.
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Thank you, not a heavy poster, it may have been user error that caused the disappearance of the initial reply.
I do believe that the Dil to Zen issue is a more serious issue than those who make the decisions on such things are crediting it with.
This is one of those matters that can heavily impact the survivability of the game, over time.
STO had for many years a well balanced economic environment, one of the best in MMOs actually, with the three different currencies a player could find a variety of ways of obtaining what they wanted, it encouraged those who were FTP to put in the effort and they could ultimately achieve anything a PTP player could. This created a healthy environment for all.
It appears this has become broken since I last heavily played the game (recently returning from over a year's absence) I found I can no longer trade my Dil for Zen. If it were double the current price and 1,000 Dil per 1 Zen, if I am willing to pay that conversion rate it should be available to me. If no one else is willing to pay that, then clearly, the exchange rate will find a lower average/amount.
Right now, those willing to grind to get Dil cannot convert that easily to Zen, this takes away the motivation to grind Dil, or perhaps even to play the game, as those items or ships the player may want to work towards are now no longer achievable through grinding Dil.
From many years of experience playing STO, I know how to make tens of thousands of Dil through a couple hours of playing, or cycling through my various characters, this is not a way I usually get my Zen, but in the past when I was a couple dozen Zen away from getting something I wanted, I found grinding some Dil to sell a more satisfying way of achieving it. I am sure I am not alone in this, so, this impacts how PTP players interact with the game as well. It's not that I can't front cash for Zen, it's that I don't always want to.
Its a dilemma that requires attention, before it permanently harms not just the game economy(ies) but the level of player involvement.
I disagree, my perspective is based on 20 years of MMO play.
I have seen other games die that did not have to, because of similar outlook, they tried to make it harder for FTP players to interact in the economy without actually paying money, this drastically reduced the population of players, over time. The other factor was a lack of new content coming in to draw in the paying players as well, it is not typically one thing that kills a good game.
FTP players have a critical role in MMOs, they grind materials for those that don't want to waste the game time looking for necessary materials and who pay all cash, typical of DPSers and hardcore players.
They also fill the ranks in Guilds, or in this case Fleets, they do plenty of grinding on behalf of fleets as well in STO.
They populate the game, so that when you call up a scenario there are players in the que waiting to play/grind.
Also, many FTP players are young people who are learning to play the game, this is critical to continuing to have a healthy game future.
Lastly, there are foreign FTP players that do not have the level of disposable income that you and I have.