...I really have to ask: you don't, perchance, go by the name "FireMage" on another site, do you? Because wow, does your debating style ring some bells.
Nope. I try to keep all my forums names Homeworld related.
So your argument is "they made lots of individual/'cheap'/c-store ships in the past, so there's no need for them to ever do it again"?
Seems weak.
Uhh no, its "they have already released tons of individual/cheap Zen store ships, so the idea that new players are somehow not being cared for doesn't add up".
If Cryptic didn't care about new players they wouldn't have released all these ships, in the way that they did, to begin with. A new player, who starts today, has access to over a decades worth of individual Zen ships at their disposal. If Cryptic didn't care they would be removing these ships from the normal Zen store, and placing them in Mudds or something.
Huh. 'Cause you sure sound like that guy....
Well. On topic, your argument does not hold water. You're basically saying, "You've already got lots, you have no business asking for more--even when the whales are getting more". Do you not understand what that sounds like?
Well. On topic, your argument does not hold water. You're basically saying, "You've already got lots, you have no business asking for more--even when the whales are getting more". Do you not understand what that sounds like?
Except, again, that isn't what I am saying. At no point did I ever say, or imply, that new players should never get new ships. That's you straw maning what I am saying for some reason.
Cryptic hands out new T6 ships three times a year(anniversary, summer, winter, events), and does put out new Zen store ships like the recent T6 Oberth and Malachowski, and the upcoming T6 Steamrunner. With the Saber class also likely getting a T6 Zen version this year.
Which is still a tiny fraction of what the gamble boxes are getting. We have had, to the best of my recollection two "standard" C-store releases this year. And... how many in Lock Boxes, Promo packs, etc.? Give me a break.
There's a straw man here, but it sure as heck ain't me.
I wonder if it'll be 1 uniform or are there multiple uniforms?
I figured that T-88 would be worked-into STO somehow lol.
I think the Ground Traits seem like more fun than the Space trait this time.
The Parliment's stats seem strong even though Tactical is lacking.
It would be nice if Cryptic introduced just a little for the zen store buying player instead of once or even twice a month gambling buying. As someone mentioned earlier why even buy zen unless one's going to gamble or spend $100+ per pack/bundle (unless on sale).
Maybe it's a CBS/Paramount mandate that any of the starships from any current series must be gamble ships & not direct buys?
Looks nice. I like the Lower Decks aesthetics even if the writing is just as trash as DSC & Picard.
You do know it's not MEANT to be taken seriously, right...? (Well, except for the fact that it officially made the Luna-class canon, but other than that...)
Which is still a tiny fraction of what the gamble boxes are getting. We have had, to the best of my recollection two "standard" C-store releases this year. And... how many in Lock Boxes, Promo packs, etc.? Give me a break.
There's a straw man here, but it sure as heck ain't me.
Actually, ship releases for all types, be it Zen, lockbox, lobi, or R&D, have been going down.
Back in 2015 Cryptic added 89 new ships to game in all formats. In 2016 and 2017 that dropped to the mid to low 60s. 2018 was 50. 2019 and 2020 were in the 40s. And 2021 so far has had 22 new ships added(23 with the upcoming Parliament class). With Kael mentioning theres about 30 ships total for this year on the schedule. Yearly ship releases of all kinds have been going down, pretty much year after year, for the last half decade. With this year reaching a new record low, after last year's record low, with 25% less new ship releases then even last year.
The problem is that Cryptic has done pretty much every canonical Klingon, Romulan, Cardassian, and Dominion, ship type. And, when it comes to Federation ships, the only ones we don't have from the old shows are the like one nacelle background ships from Wolf 359, some super kitbash stuff like the Yaeger, which have never been popular.
Outside of the Battle at the Binary Stars fleet(which we already got), and the small number of 32nd century ships DSC S3 added, these new Trek shows have only added 1-2 new ships each. So Cryptic isn't getting a lot more to work with these. And Cryptic has already done original ship designs/cross faction ship packs for most ship types(as already shown above)
As is, even if Cryptic spent all of next year doing the remaining 22 or so in-game FED/KDF/ROM ships we don't have at T6 yet, and the remaining canon ships from the new shows, they would only have about enough to do at much as they did this year.
Unless Picard, or Lower Decks, added a slew of new ships soon, we could very easily be in a situation where Cryptic will just be out of ships to make by the end of next year/early next year unless they slow down even more then they already have.
None of which justifies the vast majority of new releases being out of reach of the average player. They may be running out of ships to make, but they're the ones choosing how the ships are released.
Seems that mst ships from past or future are lockbox... anyway, i'm going to get it.. it will take some time, as i dont gamble for ships anymore... sometimes i win something when i need lobi, but thats it... i like tht ship, a lot...
None of which justifies the vast majority of new releases being out of reach of the average player. They may be running out of ships to make, but they're the ones choosing how the ships are released.
And the vast majority of those follow an established pattern of ship releases.
Future content for instance has traditionally been lockbox/lobi/R&D only.
Paradox Temporal Dreadnought
Mobius/Krenn/Talvath Temporal Destroyers
Klein/Chargh'poH/Tal'aura Temporal Destroyers
Wells/Korath/R'Mor Temporal Science Vessels
Verne/Qul'poH/Sui'Mor Temporal Science Vessels
Universe/Durgath/Valkis Temporal Heavy Dreadnought Cruisers
Aeon/Rozhenko Timeships
Wells uniform
Temporal Agent uniform
So, by that same metric, all the DSC future stuff like the Janeway, Jovian Raider, Kwejian Frigate, Crossfield Refit, Courage Class, Mars class, 32nd century uniforms, would be the same because its future content as well. DSC S3 just happens to be the biggest current source of new content.
Similarly, people complained for years about all the gambling for ships, so we have seen Cryptic start to move more away from that. Things like Legendary ships, which would previously have been Lockbox/R&D pack items are now Zen items. And whereas a lockbox ships costs anywhere from $200-$250 worth of keys to pull, and is a character only ship, that can't be reclaimed if dismissed, these Legendary packs are around $120 account wide, and reclaimable.
They are releasing ships in pretty much the same way they always have. Though cheaper in some instances.
That it follows a long-established pattern does not make it right, nor does it mean they can't change it. And you think the Legendary packs are a "cheaper" way? No. They're not. Oh, sure, for the whales, it's cheaper, but not for the average player. I can, over time, put together the resources to buy a single gamble box ship from the Exchange. I can't put together over a hundred [BLEEP]ing dollars for the Legendary packs. That they're account unlock means nothing to mean when I can't afford them in the first place. The only Legendary ship that I'd call particularly reasonable--and thus the only one I have--is the Legendary Galaxy-X.
If you think the Legendary packs are Cryptic being reasonable, you are not understanding what an "average" player actually is.
And that Rifle is probably as close as we'll get to First Contact style for a while.
For rifles I prefer the full auto variety, so unfortunately I'll be skipping that one.
You'll want the full-auto rifle (technically, though, it's a burst rifle, with the alt-fire being a longer burst) for your away team, so they can expose targets for the HD/split-beam/sniper (if I recall right 'G' by default cycles among exposed targets).
More generally, the SI weapons' ammo mechanic reminds me of the Omega torpedo launcher and the duelist pistol... but instead of squeezing off single shots, the alt-fire always 'fans the hammer' and uses all available charges. On a related note, I'm kind of surprised a similar mechanic wasn't adapted for the Thompson and Zef's shotgun... and this, in turn, reminds me of my notes from a while back about how Pancor's Jackhammer could be translated into STO mechanics...
Also, if they're going to do LD content, that means Starfleet Orions are a likely future addition (I also recall at least one somewhere in IDW's comic runs)...
> Let me ask. Do you complain about the existence of designer clothes, that cost 4-5 times the amount of normal clothes, simply because you can't afford them too? Do you find it unacceptable that companies like Prada make purses worth hundreds of dollars? Do you have the same feeling for high end cars, furniture, housing, or anything else? Because that is what your argument here is. >
Pretty much yes. I do not care for excessively expensive products. I think luxury brands often are not worth the price. And advertising tactics that assign unreasonable value to low-quality products is predatory. I’m not sure why you think that argument is “ridiculous.”
But you are right. There are plenty of less-ridiculously overpriced ships in game (though they are all overpriced. Remember virtual items have no intrinsic value except maybe for . There are normally at least three (4 this year with the Kdf recruit bop) ships a year that are free. And especially for seasoned players, low-teir ships are still very viable.
Oh well, when I started playing I jealous of all the c-store and lockbox ships I couldn’t afford too. I wish someone would have just said. “Don’t worry, you will suck just as badly at the game after you grind out that Korath.” But I guess sometimes we have to learn the hard way.
And that Rifle is probably as close as we'll get to First Contact style for a while.
For rifles I prefer the full auto variety, so unfortunately I'll be skipping that one.
You'll want the full-auto rifle (technically, though, it's a burst rifle, with the alt-fire being a longer burst) for your away team, so they can expose targets for the HD/split-beam/sniper (if I recall right 'G' by default cycles among exposed targets).
I know all that, I've been playing since beta, but ground combat goes so quickly these days that I stopped bothering with the expose/exploit mechanic years ago. Nowadays I just use whatever looks best for the theme I have on a particular character which often means all pistols, when I do use rifles though I take the full-auto rifles over anything else because it looks better imo.
When the game launched I made sure every character had three boffs with full-autos and one plus me with split beams, and I'd take time between each group of enemies to manually use each of my engineer boffs fabrication abilities before pulling. Stuff dies so fast now though that I just don't see the point of it anymore.
Ok interesting more stuff for the lobi and short term mystery box that will 95% of the time not give you a ship.
So that makes a little over 100 ships and over 1000 items not available through any other way then gambling boxes....thats actualy getting to be more then what the actual regualr store offers.....kind of scary.
I thought it was odd that ships wend up costing you 15 dollars to 30 dollars each on the c-store but the packs and such costing a few hundred dollars each.....was a tad much.
But I am confused on this game's selling point?
Is this to tell the newer players to dish out hundreds of dollars and gamble?
I have played this game for a very long time.
And Granted i also play warframe which uses a cash shop system as well but at least you can get the items in game. And their cash shop isnt nearly as pricey. In fact older players and others constantly gift other players stuff. And you can get stuff from other players for the special cash shop currency as well.
So maybe i am just be biased.
Power without Perception is Spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
That it follows a long-established pattern does not make it right, nor does it mean they can't change it. And you think the Legendary packs are a "cheaper" way? No. They're not. Oh, sure, for the whales, it's cheaper, but not for the average player. I can, over time, put together the resources to buy a single gamble box ship from the Exchange. I can't put together over a hundred [BLEEP]ing dollars for the Legendary packs. That they're account unlock means nothing to mean when I can't afford them in the first place. The only Legendary ship that I'd call particularly reasonable--and thus the only one I have--is the Legendary Galaxy-X.
If you think the Legendary packs are Cryptic being reasonable, you are not understanding what an "average" player actually is.
Why exactly isn't it right again? Because it costs more money then you particularly wish to spend? How is that any different then how lockbox ships are now?
According to your statements here its OK for Crpyitc to charge more for something, and offer less benefits for spending more, so long as someone else can foot the actual bill for you. That's a more unacceptable mindset to me then making something around 50% cheaper, making it acocunt wide, and opening it for everyone rather then just gamblers. That's just pure greed on your part.
Let me ask. Do you complain about the existence of designer clothes, that cost 4-5 times the amount of normal clothes, simply because you can't afford them too? Do you find it unacceptable that companies like Prada make purses worth hundreds of dollars? Do you have the same feeling for high end cars, furniture, housing, or anything else? Because that is what your argument here is.
Its ridiculous. Not everything in real life, or in games, has to exist for your personal, or even most people's, budgetary concerns. And that not everything does isn't "unacceptable". Not everything is made to be bought by everyone. Many of these ships aren't made for the average player... and that's just fine, for the exact same reasons its fine in every other industry in existence.
The average player has access to over 100+ T6 Zen ships, can get multiple free ships a year via the anniversary, summer, and winter events, and can take advantage of the now multiple campaigns Cryptic has run that give out free Zen ship coupons, as well as the more recent lobi and R&D offerings.
Assuming that the T6 versions of them aren't "legendary", somehow. (Like Legendary Constellation for the Cheyenne Heavy Cruiser)
Well, or packed into a "and piles of consumables you don't want, for 6-12k" bundle.
...ah, right. You said "zen ships". And stupid expensive bundles are still zen ships.
All Legendary ships have already had a T6 version before they became legendary. They weren't just made legendary from a previously only T5 or w/e.
And we know from what Cryptic has said recently that all Legendary ships have to have a lineage, or else there wouldn't be anything to bundle. On top of lacking an already existent T6 version, most of these ships only exist at one tier, meaning they lack the lineage necessary to make a Legendary bundle out of.
The 9 Dysons only exist at T5. The same is true of the Aquarius, HoH'SuS', Ha'feh, Ha'nom, D'Kyr, Trident, Hermes, and Emissary. The Pioneer only exists at T1. So there's 18 of those 23 ships right there that don't qualify at all.
Yeah... all I can say to that is that you've definitely proven I'm not the strawman in this discussion. Now I see why other posters say you can't be reasoned with. Have a good day.
Yeah... all I can say to that is that you've definitely proven I'm not the strawman in this discussion. Now I see why other posters say you can't be reasoned with. Have a good day.
Ahh yes the "I'm going to run away because I had no more defense for my argument" tactic.
General note: just because someone ends their debate with you does not mean you were "right".
It probably just means most people have normal lives and do not have an endless amount of time to spend on a video game message board typing thousands of words like you do every day.
You are definitely a very unique individual, and obviously have more free time to waste than most people.
But that doesn't make you "right" just because you can spend more time typing page after page of nonsense on a video game message board.
Yeah... all I can say to that is that you've definitely proven I'm not the strawman in this discussion. Now I see why other posters say you can't be reasoned with. Have a good day.
Ahh yes the "I'm going to run away because I had no more defense for my argument" tactic.
You claim to not be able to put together 120 dollars for a legendary pack. That's only about 15 dollars a month to buy it for yourself as a Christmas present. Less(around 7 dollars/month) if you take into account holiday sales. If you can't put that aside for extra things like games, movies, etc. your financial situation is so tight you shouldn't be spending money on games in the first place.
These aren't things only whales can buy, they are things anyone who isn't broke can save up for over a couple months. And, as has been pointed out before, you don't need to get all, or even most, of them to begin with.
No, it's the "You are going to twist whatever I say to suit your argument so there's no point in trying" tactic. Getting the last word doesn't make you the "winner".
Comments
Huh. 'Cause you sure sound like that guy....
Well. On topic, your argument does not hold water. You're basically saying, "You've already got lots, you have no business asking for more--even when the whales are getting more". Do you not understand what that sounds like?
Which is still a tiny fraction of what the gamble boxes are getting. We have had, to the best of my recollection two "standard" C-store releases this year. And... how many in Lock Boxes, Promo packs, etc.? Give me a break.
There's a straw man here, but it sure as heck ain't me.
Agree, this Parliament looks real nice.
I wonder if it'll be 1 uniform or are there multiple uniforms?
I figured that T-88 would be worked-into STO somehow lol.
I think the Ground Traits seem like more fun than the Space trait this time.
The Parliment's stats seem strong even though Tactical is lacking.
It would be nice if Cryptic introduced just a little for the zen store buying player instead of once or even twice a month gambling buying. As someone mentioned earlier why even buy zen unless one's going to gamble or spend $100+ per pack/bundle (unless on sale).
Maybe it's a CBS/Paramount mandate that any of the starships from any current series must be gamble ships & not direct buys?
You do know it's not MEANT to be taken seriously, right...? (Well, except for the fact that it officially made the Luna-class canon, but other than that...)
"There's No Way Like Poway!"
Real Join Date: October 2010
None of which justifies the vast majority of new releases being out of reach of the average player. They may be running out of ships to make, but they're the ones choosing how the ships are released.
Bridge Officer Stations Meh!
Console Layout Meh!
Star Ship Trait Meh!
Ship Overall Meh!
I'd buy it with those stats as a C-store ship, but as a gamble ship and single character unlock?
"NOT A CHANCE IN HELL"
That it follows a long-established pattern does not make it right, nor does it mean they can't change it. And you think the Legendary packs are a "cheaper" way? No. They're not. Oh, sure, for the whales, it's cheaper, but not for the average player. I can, over time, put together the resources to buy a single gamble box ship from the Exchange. I can't put together over a hundred [BLEEP]ing dollars for the Legendary packs. That they're account unlock means nothing to mean when I can't afford them in the first place. The only Legendary ship that I'd call particularly reasonable--and thus the only one I have--is the Legendary Galaxy-X.
If you think the Legendary packs are Cryptic being reasonable, you are not understanding what an "average" player actually is.
More generally, the SI weapons' ammo mechanic reminds me of the Omega torpedo launcher and the duelist pistol... but instead of squeezing off single shots, the alt-fire always 'fans the hammer' and uses all available charges. On a related note, I'm kind of surprised a similar mechanic wasn't adapted for the Thompson and Zef's shotgun... and this, in turn, reminds me of my notes from a while back about how Pancor's Jackhammer could be translated into STO mechanics...
Also, if they're going to do LD content, that means Starfleet Orions are a likely future addition (I also recall at least one somewhere in IDW's comic runs)...
Assuming that the T6 versions of them aren't "legendary", somehow. (Like Legendary Constellation for the Cheyenne Heavy Cruiser)
Well, or packed into a "and piles of consumables you don't want, for 6-12k" bundle.
...ah, right. You said "zen ships". And stupid expensive bundles are still zen ships.
> Let me ask. Do you complain about the existence of designer clothes, that cost 4-5 times the amount of normal clothes, simply because you can't afford them too? Do you find it unacceptable that companies like Prada make purses worth hundreds of dollars? Do you have the same feeling for high end cars, furniture, housing, or anything else? Because that is what your argument here is.
>
Pretty much yes. I do not care for excessively expensive products. I think luxury brands often are not worth the price. And advertising tactics that assign unreasonable value to low-quality products is predatory. I’m not sure why you think that argument is “ridiculous.”
But you are right. There are plenty of less-ridiculously overpriced ships in game (though they are all overpriced. Remember virtual items have no intrinsic value except maybe for . There are normally at least three (4 this year with the Kdf recruit bop) ships a year that are free. And especially for seasoned players, low-teir ships are still very viable.
Oh well, when I started playing I jealous of all the c-store and lockbox ships I couldn’t afford too. I wish someone would have just said. “Don’t worry, you will suck just as badly at the game after you grind out that Korath.” But I guess sometimes we have to learn the hard way.
I know all that, I've been playing since beta, but ground combat goes so quickly these days that I stopped bothering with the expose/exploit mechanic years ago. Nowadays I just use whatever looks best for the theme I have on a particular character which often means all pistols, when I do use rifles though I take the full-auto rifles over anything else because it looks better imo.
When the game launched I made sure every character had three boffs with full-autos and one plus me with split beams, and I'd take time between each group of enemies to manually use each of my engineer boffs fabrication abilities before pulling. Stuff dies so fast now though that I just don't see the point of it anymore.
So that makes a little over 100 ships and over 1000 items not available through any other way then gambling boxes....thats actualy getting to be more then what the actual regualr store offers.....kind of scary.
I thought it was odd that ships wend up costing you 15 dollars to 30 dollars each on the c-store but the packs and such costing a few hundred dollars each.....was a tad much.
But I am confused on this game's selling point?
Is this to tell the newer players to dish out hundreds of dollars and gamble?
I have played this game for a very long time.
And Granted i also play warframe which uses a cash shop system as well but at least you can get the items in game. And their cash shop isnt nearly as pricey. In fact older players and others constantly gift other players stuff. And you can get stuff from other players for the special cash shop currency as well.
So maybe i am just be biased.
Power without Perception is Spiritually useless and therefore of no true value.
=^_^=
Yeah... all I can say to that is that you've definitely proven I'm not the strawman in this discussion. Now I see why other posters say you can't be reasoned with. Have a good day.
General note: just because someone ends their debate with you does not mean you were "right".
It probably just means most people have normal lives and do not have an endless amount of time to spend on a video game message board typing thousands of words like you do every day.
You are definitely a very unique individual, and obviously have more free time to waste than most people.
But that doesn't make you "right" just because you can spend more time typing page after page of nonsense on a video game message board.
You are a one-man echo chamber
No, it's the "You are going to twist whatever I say to suit your argument so there's no point in trying" tactic. Getting the last word doesn't make you the "winner".