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banning/blocking non players in TFOs

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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    Is it so hard to agree that it is more difficult and takes more effort to find a private group for a map but that it is far from impossible?

    I mean that has been my experience the past 9 years.
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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,210 Arc User
    mysonne1 wrote: »
    mysonne1 wrote: »
    valoreah wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    Yes finding those is different to finding others as its next to impossible at this point in the day. 8 to 12 hours from now its not only perfectly possible the groups will be thriving but I can no longer play at that time.

    It’s to do with time zones. I am in my main playtime right now as I type this and outside ESD is near empty with 50 people and less then 200 people inside ESD often much less. All the community channels which I am in the max amount allowed and all are dead, no one is speaking and all have barely anyone active inside.

    Like I said before how am I meant to find a community to run a premade event daily for this event at this point of time in the day? It just doesn't work.

    *Before anyone misreads this. I am not saying STO is dead. MMO' have a high and low population point in every 24 hours and at this point in the day when I get online the population is at the low point. Running pre made groups at this point of the day is next to impossible daily. 8 to 12 hours from now will be a completed different story.
    zzzspina01 wrote: »
    i would. but i play at random times. sometimes morning sometimes night. its hard to organise a time whit a group when i dont even know whn i might find time to play.

    Sorry but unless you are the sole person logged into the game server, there are others around for you to look to form a team with, regardless of time of day. I also have varying play schedules from time to time so I can empathize it is not always a quick thing to form a team. You are welcome to PM me and add me to your friends list. I am happy to help out with teaming when able.

    I solo 99% of the time in this game, you know why? Because I can get up and go get a drink after a couple missions, or take 30 mins to go puff a joint then come back. I can go at my own pace and not have to be crammed behind a screen for endless hours. The solution isnt always "find a group or team" its follow instructions on a derp easy TFO. If people cant do that they should go play candy crush. This TFO is about as easy as they come next to the borg TFO's

    it is easy...but people fail to take into account that there is a possibility that a player in the TFO is a young kid just enjoying the pew pew aspect.

    while i doubt it is a huge number, one cant forget about the age differences this game has.

    A "young" kid shouldnt be in TFO's if they havent been taught by their parent/guardian. Its an MMO, not candy crush or fortnite. My son is 10 and he does this TFO flawlessly because I took the time to sit with him through a run and show him. Also, im noticing that the players doing this always have some super sell your left nut to afford type ship. A young kid isnt affording those. I have a feeling its just some high dudes like me just being lazy. I have more fun flying my circle path for non stop progression.

    well, isnt an MMO a game? just a varied and more detailed game as compared to CC? your take and avenue for your child may be different than someone elses.
    i was just point out that kids play the game. albeit and MMO, but a game none the less.
    meh

  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,129 Arc User
    Is it so hard to agree that it is more difficult and takes more effort to find a private group for a map but that it is far from impossible?

    I mean that has been my experience the past 9 years.

    Totally agree. I would also add weighing what is more important to you as an individual with regard to play experience.
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  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    Of all the TFOs (tied with Khitomer In Stasis), stupid/trolling players in Remain Klingon definitely have the most noticeable impact on how it goes. Once again, the developers failed to see the whole picture, to understand how badly this TFO can go at the extremes, despite the best efforts of the rest of the team. They didn't think this through, because if they had, they would have known that a few simple tweaks would have eliminated basically all the issues.
    1. don't target players already within the 3km region around the major ships unless there are no other valid ships in range. Why are these ships firing on their own position? That's right. They wouldn't.
    2. don't target the same player more than once in a 30 second window unless there are no other valid ships in range. In many ships, getting across the map to deliver the target correctly cannot be done in the time allowed without speed boosting buffs, and buffs have have cooldowns.
    3. players who fail to deliver the enemy targeting position to the correct ship should not be targeted again until all other players on the team fail to do so as well. They either weren't paying attention, don't understand the directions, or are deliberately trolling the group. Give other players a chance to step in get things done right.
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,281 Arc User
    and did it occur that the player "afk" is simply sitting there because they don't know what to do, so they are sitting at the ship trying to figure out when to fire?
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  • sovereign010sovereign010 Member Posts: 629 Arc User
    The mission has been around for long enough that only a total noob would be struggling to figure it out. Of course the most obvious answer to forming competent groups is to join one or more of the channels since you're no longer dependent on the rest of your group being online simultaneously. As for which channels, I don't know which is best, is there a recommended one that I'm not aware of?
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    But you don't *HAVE* to do the TFO for daily progress. Hell, it's not even the fastest option. At best, it's tied with doing two of the eligible patrols (two on one captain, or one on two captains -- take your pick). Sure, you get more marks, but you get less ore. In addition, the amount of time it takes to run the patrols is markedly more reliable than the TFO, since those patrols are pretty predictable.

    Still, yes, I'd like a way to block myself from being grouped up with players who have demonstrated a consistent inability to pay attention...or chooses to be a burden on the group. It's one thing to TRIBBLE around in 'TFOs' like Azure Nebula or First Contact rocket launch, where the only person it impacts is themselves. But it's another thing entirely when someone TRIBBLE around screws with everyone else, too.
  • zzzspina01zzzspina01 Member Posts: 299 Arc User
    look this thread is getting to AGRO. All i would like is an option in game to not be linked to inactve's.
    I cant brain I have the dumb
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 2,186 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    westmetals wrote: »
    But you don't *HAVE* to do the TFO for daily progress. Hell, it's not even the fastest option. At best, it's tied with doing two of the eligible patrols (two on one captain, or one on two captains -- take your pick). Sure, you get more marks, but you get less ore. In addition, the amount of time it takes to run the patrols is markedly more reliable than the TFO, since those patrols are pretty predictable.

    Still, yes, I'd like a way to block myself from being grouped up with players who have demonstrated a consistent inability to pay attention...or chooses to be a burden on the group. It's one thing to TRIBBLE around in 'TFOs' like Azure Nebula or First Contact rocket launch, where the only person it impacts is themselves. But it's another thing entirely when someone TRIBBLE around screws with everyone else, too.

    it was not the current event. But nice try.

    Then I'm confused what you're talking about. Which previous event had a problematic TFO even remotely approaching that of Remain Klingon...and that TFO was the only option?
  • stark2kstark2k Member Posts: 1,455 Arc User
    The biggest issue with all this is that the events are repetitive and long ones to boot. 40/40 which practically 24hrs cool down - which must be run 20x consecutively or a buy out. This creates a serious form of boredom. I don't condone AFK'ism, but I clearly understand why some players do it.

    The serious lack of content in this game has forced Cryptic to resort to long time gated events, which is a double edge sword for many games. STO has gone beyond its maturity rate and has stagnated, as most of its high end player base have blown through all the content and has done everything under the sun.

    Unfortunately; OP; in the end one must take a grin and bare it approach or try one of the other qualifying ways to earn your daily 2 points towards the event goal.
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  • qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    i don't think anyone is denying that grouping up isn't a good proposition Val, they are simply stating that it doesn't help when, for whatever reason, you are unable too do so.

    you seem to be trying very hard to discount other folks individual experience of trying to group up under certain constraints, because your experience of grouping up is different?
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  • qziqzaqziqza Member Posts: 1,044 Arc User
    stark2k wrote: »
    Unfortunately; OP; in the end one must take a grin and bare it approach or try one of the other qualifying ways to earn your daily 2 points towards the event goal.

    aye, i've been doing the patrols, means missing out on some marks, but better for the blood pressure.

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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,129 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    When somebody being AFK prevent the queue from being completable...no, it is ABSOLUTELY a design problem. Just because you are in a PUG, it does not mean that one person who has to be AFK...intentionally to cause grief or because life happened, should cause the map to be impossible. That is just BAD design. So having a better AFK detection system to kick them out so everyone can progress or removing the game design so that does not happen is ABSOLUTELY something the devs needs to do. While this new TFO does not make things impossible to finish, if the AFK person gets targeted repeatedly, it can make the map MUCH longer than it really ought to be...because they could not be bothered to put in a check and can repeatedly target the same ship over and over and over again.

    I think there we have a misunderstanding here. I agree that TFOs that can be rendered unable to complete due to AFKers is absolutely a design problem. However, this particular problem is avoided/solved with pre-formed teams where you know no one will be AFK. It does not fix the design flaws, only offers a proven workaround for those who choose to use it. I was not suggesting there are no problems for those who make the choice to run PUGs. Apologies if I did not communicate that properly.
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,129 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    It is, actually.

    Because what if someone is in a situation such as I described... I decided - based on YOUR ADVICE - to form a private team and failed due to lack of response, and having limited time, was then faced with a binary choice of doing the event TFO as a PUG or not doing it at all (and thus losing an entire day's progress)?

    As I have said all along, and as you have refused to listen, private teaming is not always a viable solution. Unless you are willing to committ to yourself and three of your friends being available and willing 24/7, which you can't possibly do.

    And by the way it is incredibly arrogant of you to insist on claiming it in EVERY SINGLE thread in which anyone has anything negative to say about any TFO, as though it is the solution to every problem, and therefore as though nobody has ANY RIGHT to complain about TFOs in which they were PUGging... "you deserve what you get?" Really? Even when it's a design issue with the TFO?

    Oh good grief, just read what you wrote here.

    Who decided to try and form a team? You.
    Who decided to run a PUG instead of doing without or doing something else? You.

    Of course it is a choice.
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,129 Arc User
    qziqza wrote: »
    i don't think anyone is denying that grouping up isn't a good proposition Val, they are simply stating that it doesn't help when, for whatever reason, you are unable too do so.

    you seem to be trying very hard to discount other folks individual experience of trying to group up under certain constraints, because your experience of grouping up is different?

    Well no, I am not trying to discount anyone nor have I said forming a team is easy. I have said the contrary repeatedly. What I have been suggesting is that if people make the choice to run a PUG knowing full well they may get teamed with people who play a way they do not like, they should accept the consequence of that decision.
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
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  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,655 Bug Hunter
    edited June 2021
    What many perhaps don't realize... ...some form teams or partial teams, the alternative is...

    Add 2-4 other players, including yourself, to a Private Group even if your short 1-3 players for the TFO... ...now if you then switch (tabs) to select Task Force, and select a Ground / Space / Random Queue it will fill the remaining slots with the PUG! It's nicer cause you don't have to keep reforming teams after each, and every TFO. :)

    It's not perfect but it does help improve your odds, and also when the TFO is done. You'll still have the 3 people in your private group to add to other Random's or specific Queues in Task Force--till you disband the private group. Also people in the private group can choose to leave it as they need or want, or till the leader disbands it.

    Still I don't mind running PUGs in Task Force, though that is me and I'm very easy-going.

    Just don't like when people are mean in chat, it reflects more on them than what others are doing.
    Post edited by strathkin on
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  • zzzspina01zzzspina01 Member Posts: 299 Arc User
    I always choose random TFOs and at the begining i constantly got remain klingin 2/3. the last 2 days i got it once 1/5. im finding less people are playing this TFO on random. im wandering if anyone else is finding this on there side of things.
    I cant brain I have the dumb
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,992 Arc User
    You shouldn't be getting ANY TFO that is part of an active event as a random.​​
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 11,129 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    The problem is that when you keep saying that private groups is the solution to those broken queues, you are running cover for the devs to NOT fix them. Especially when it is in a response to direct requests to have those queues fixed by Westmetal that I have seen you do. I don't care that a private queue is a workaround...that problem should not be there to begin with and the devs SHOULD BE FIXING IT.

    I am not running cover for anyone and I am very far from being Cryptic's number one fan. Very far from it. I will guarantee Crytpic is not reading these forums hanging on every word I type here. I have already agreed that poorly designed TFOs should be fixed. All I have been doing and will continue to do is point out a viable alternative. Taking that as a signal to Cryptic to do nothing is a big leap.
    westmetals wrote: »
    I still maintain that doing queues as a PUG - when there are extenuating reasons to do that particular queue, or (as with the Klingon Recruit task) to do randoms in general... is not necessarily a choice..

    So you do not have the choice to go and do something other bit of content in the game? What Cryptic employee is holding a gun to your head forcing you to do things?
    I will make a distinction here... which I have been trying to make all along but Valoreah also absolutely insists on conflating these two concepts which are in fact separate concepts... a TFO which you are "unable to proceed/complete" or are severely delayed in, due to the active interference or AFKness of one player... causing situations like waypoint-triggered doors that won't unlock because the waypoint is waiting for the last player.... is very different from complaining about people who "do not play as you like"... i.e. people who disregard optionals, don't go for the most score- or time-efficient method (like not trying to do the console puzzle in Assault on Terok Nor), use Beacon of Kahless, etcetera. I was intentionally trying to limit my comments to the first part of that but Valoreah insists on adding the second as well (and then using that as a reason why my comments should be ignored).

    Have other players made posts about not liking AFK players in various other TFOs that are still able to be completed without everyone participating? Yes. Have there been other posts about players failing optionals? Yes. Quite clear that others find that kind of behavior annoying, regardless of whether the TFO can progress or not. So yes, these behaviors can all be generalized into "not playing the way you like."
    I do agree that private teaming could be a good workaround to most problems with most TFOs. I just don't think it should be assumed or asserted that anyone encountering a problem, is themselves at fault because they did not use this workaround... or that anyone not using it, was capable of using it.

    Every single player is capable of forming a team, and yes, if you are consciously deciding to put yourself in a situation where you know others may not play the way you want, you are responsible for putting yourself in that situation.
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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,762 Arc User
    edited June 2021
    valoreah wrote: »
    All I have been doing and will continue to do is point out a viable alternative. Taking that as a signal to Cryptic to do nothing is a big leap.
    As I tried to point out before it’s not a viable alternative for everyone. It’s not possible for me to form a private team within the timeframe I have in my main playtime during the week. No matter how hard I try even if I try every day its just not going to happen due to the timezone when I play. Weekends are a different story but its an event which I cannot leave for weekends only.

    You keep acting like it’s a choice. Well, its not as there is no choice. Perhaps 8 hours later in the day or if I had a longer play session then it’s a choice. For me right now private queues are not a choice or a viable solution. The server population is something like 500% lower at my current playtime over my old playtime. So its just not a viable alternative anymore to form private queues with other people as I cannot possible find enough people to form those queues in the time I have on a daily basis.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Moderators, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 55,863 Community Moderator
    Guys... cool off. This argument is getting NOWHERE.
    westmetals wrote: »
    No, I do not have a choice, when there is an event counter, endeavours, etc. in play and I have restricted time, and am put in a position of choosing either "do this NOW" or "do not do this at all".

    As a normal forumite... in this event you actually do have options. They set it up so that you can either do the TFO (2 points of progress), the two new story missions (2 points of progress each), or patrols associated with the Klingon Civil War (One point of Progress each).

    Also Endeavors are optional so no real pressure to get that done immediately.
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