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Al Rivera on new playable species
somtaawkhar
Member Posts: 10,222 Arc User
From his comments on reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/lhs6qd/so_how_are_races_chosen_for_the_game/gmzkedc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/lhs6qd/so_how_are_races_chosen_for_the_game/gmzkedc?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3
Species were chosen long ago. Over 10 years ago. Although we have added a few over the years, and hope to add more in the near future, it isn't a small task.
To be a bona fide species you can choose as a playable captain, that species should be a member of that faction (with few reasonable exceptions). We wont just add a species because someone thinks its "cool". It must make sense in the fiction. Alien Gen is there for you to role play weird one-off species you want to make your own fiction for.
We don't add new species often simple because it is very expensive for our character artist to make. To make the the body (remember, you can see them in a bathing suit), the multiple head options, all sliders, and support all existing clothing, it can take 3-6 man months for art alone. That same artist is also making all you favorite guns, gear, celebrity likenesses, bosses (ground), props, deployables, critter groups, clothes/armor, etc. So to get a new species, we lose out on a lot of asset development. There has to be a strong reason, and we have to have confidence there is a strong demand before we add a new species.
To address your examples:Cheers!
- Hirogen - unlikely. Canonically, they are a violent clan-based society. It makes little sense for them to join the Federation. You could make an argument for them for Klingon faction, but the return on investment is likely low.
- Deltans - Visually uninteresting IMHO. We have only ever seen one ASAIK. They are bald humans with a complex libido. Make an alien gen that looks like a bald human and call yourself Deltan.
- Vorta - Would only make sense for Dominion Faction. We considered it, but the story we have for that faction makes zero sense for a Vorta. I believe Vorta ears are in Alien gen, so have at it.
- Founder - We actually started work on them as a premium species, but they are super complex. Lots of FX, anim and power work to make them work. I hope to see this happen one day. There is nothing on the near schedule as to when this might ever happen.
- Benzites - already exist as playable species - with or without the space-harmonica.
- Kelpian - We were asked not to do Kelpians at first by CBS for story reason, but they are fair game now. But they wont be the first Fed Disco species you will see in the game. We already have Disco male Andorians as NPCs in the game, so we are closer to making that a reality. So you will see them first one day. And after that, I personally want Disco Saurains. No timetable or promises for any of those.
- Kazon - Same answer as Hirogen. Not likely. Also, I highly doubt the return on investment to make those mad-max reject chicken heads playable would be worth it (dont @ me, I'm just having fun)
I'll add that making some of these as one-off Boffs is a lot more reasonable. We can grab existing NPC costumes and turn them into a boff easily. The trade off is that you cant change their clothes, so their visuals are locked - like we did with the Breen Boff. But many of the more desirable species as Boffs (like Hirogen) have very outdated art and wont pass current art review standards.
Also, I really want a Tzinkethi and Hurq Boff, but since they are not on a human reg/skeleton, they dont support the full range of humanoid animations. So you couldn't equip them with weapons or BOff powers.
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Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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It's too bad for those that want to play a Vorta (not me) but we do have alien-gen.
"There's No Way Like Poway!"
Real Join Date: October 2010
I'm guessing it's the "body, sliders and fitting to exists costumes parts" which is why DSC Andorians are still being work, probably female version as well as as all DSC Andorian NPCs are male and unlike with classic Cryptic is working in the dark as to how fem DSC Andorians would look like, sure there's so indication based on how the males look but sexual dimorphism can get pretty extreme at times.
After all NPCs have limited clothing options and IIRC even the "generic" Andorian isn't a boff so they'd really just need to fit him into the DSC Starfleet uniform (as that's what hi is wearing) and that's it not the countless clothing pieces a playable Andorian could wear. Oh and Shran is a guest star NPC so they've probably built him for that one outfit alone and didn't even bother with all the rest of that stuff as you'd never see that anyway.
Maybe that's just me though!
Be nice if they'd perhaps update some of the older races....like better spot coverage for Trill (outfits where their spots end but they're supposed to go from head to toe...and perhaps the spots themselves could be updated) Saurians could probably use a little upgrade
Maybe females for the KDF races missing them. (Even if it's a "side" project some time is better than never (Female Gorn would be easy))
Still like to see Suliban for the Republic...Romulans have gotten almost no attention at all since the Legacy of Romulus honeymoon was over. Even with them featured in season one of Picard they still got almost no attention. (Plus it's kinda BS that Talaxians would join the Empire but not the Republic? Not only do they not fit in the Empire, seeing as the Republic is sorta in charge of things on the Dyson spheres...they'd be likely to have more contact with the Talaxians)
As for the Alien gen remarks: It's disappointing. I understand the reasoning behind it, but just looking like a certain species isn't enough for me. Species need to come with unique abilities. The Caitians have increased jumping capabilities.
That's a good example of an unique trait that is 100% of the time active, but not just some passive and barely noticable stat increase. I hope that, eventually, we'll get more of such unique traits for specific species. Give those Discovery Andorians the ability to always use a melee weapon for example, even when the player doesn't have one equipped in the regular 2 weapon slots.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
I find these type of discussions fascinating giving insights into the "grinding of the wheels" mechanics.
I do think in most cases if they released more unique BOFFs &/or DOFFs, but preferably BOFFs the majority of players would appreciate that even if not playable species.
With that being said & STO's trending of sorts I fear they'd be used only for monetization triggers for bigger purchases so that would be a shame.
And again, if you want to play a Vorta who's gone insane by the standards of their species, knock yourself out. Aliengen is right over there, and they've got the ears.
As for Vulcans in the RR, nothing could be easier - just make a Rom with a smooth forehead, and call yourself a Vulcan. Visually, the two species are identical, except for the Romulan ethnicity with the forehead ridges. Ferengi in the KDF, though - it's hard to imagine a Ferengi that could be considered sufficiently "honorable" by Klingon standards. Starfleet's a lot more flexible about that sort of thing.
Caitians/Ferasans are always at the top of that list, as they're one of the first 'extra' playable species offered, and we paid for that via the zstore - yet they have the absolute minimum for customizatoin options (IF you own ferasans, you get some extra hairstyles for caitians, but that's it), and the details on them are very much 10~ years ago level of quality.
The jem'hadar got rengineered in the vanguard jem'hadar nothing says that odo especially after the events of the story wouldn't do the same. The founder's make as much sense as a vorta who doesn't fit the mold, as the founder would literally be doing the same thing. Heck I would argue the jem'hadar aren't exactly following their normality when they do the multitude of diplomatic missions in the game. I believe this is just a nitpick argument.
They HAVE been shown to LEAD the Jem'Hadar during combat though even if they don't do any actual fighting, and being a leader is a Captain's primary job. If they really needed to justify it they could add a line of dialogue where someone mentions that the Founders decided to enhance the eye sight of the Vorta and give them some limited combat training as part of their reaction to losing the war with the Federation.
If playable Changelings would have access to aliengen then I suppose that would work as an alternative since Vorta ears are already available there, you just wouldn't be able to use any special Changeling attacks if you wanted to RP as a Vorta.
In theory part of the restructuring of the Dominion post Gamma Arc could include improving Vorta combat skills to be on par with Fed, Romulan, and Klingon Captains, which in turn could be a way to make playable Vorta, but again that is AFTER the Gamma Arc.
What is your point? There were Vorta helping us in the story...the only Vorta against us was Weyoun and we know how bad he can be. We would be Vorta loyal to Odo...see it takes so little imagination but I guess some people are incapable of any
Admirals are diplomates...we're flying around going on away missions to the most dangerous places as admirals. Weyoun didn't have a problem using a weapon...not like we're bagging sniper kills from thousands of yards away
I honestly think the only reason Vorta were not in victory for life is because they didn't have the resources to work on adapting the story, so they settled on axing them. I do wonder how if cryptic as well as perfect circle have shifted some resources away from the sto team since delta rising. Since I feel like they have lowered the scope of said major updates since then.
People just like playing devil's advocate, especially when its a game they love. Geko represents cryptic so he would present things in the best light for the company as he can. As I am sure perfect circle's and cryptic's PR department limit what he can disclose.
In the end when you have any faction captians flying everything from borg ships to elachi ships. Their isn't that much that that breaks the canon more then that. But its star trek video game, not a 1 to 1 recreation of the canon of the tv show, which even it is full of ret cons or inconsistency due to just how many people worked on the franchise.
I do hope they change their mind on Vorta, I honestly don't care for jem'hadar. The Vorta and the founders were always far more interesting characters/villians in DS9.
Weyoun is simply not a reliable source for accurate information about Vorta since his job was to lie in order to give the Federation a false sense of security. And if you look at what all of the named Vorta characters did it and compare it to what Weyoun said the lies become rather obvious. Weyoun himself gives clues to that with his body language (Combs did a fantastic job of that).
In fact, the very first Vorta you see in the show was a military outpost commander (Eris), and most of the other Vorta seen in the show were military officers, not diplomats.
And yes, it is simple to make Vorta using the "alien" tab of the character generators, EXCEPT for the one that really matters: the Dominion faction one since it lacks the "alien" tab. If it had an "alien" tab then it would not be a problem at all.
Without it, the only Vorta that can be made are from other factions which is not only against canon in a general sense, it means they cannot unlock Dominion ships so they only have two they can use without wasting a character slot on a Jem'Hadar to unlock the ships for them, they use the wrong transporter effects and have other cosmetic problems, have the wrong boffs, etc.
Also, their eyesight is not a problem since they depend much more on sound than sight. Saying they are not fit for combat because their sight is not up to human levels so they have to use their ears instead is like saying the Andorians are not fit for combat because are colorblind and have to use their antennae to perceive color. Some other aliens use even weirder senses and don't necessarily have problems in combat because of that.
It does not matter if their sight is weak and they depend more on those very complex ears to navigate their surroundings, identify and track (and potentially target) objects and beings at range, the only thing that matters is that it obviously works.
It would be an interesting way to design new armour or weapons though. Instead of only having +acc consoles in space, we could have accuracy boosting ground gear.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
There was some talk by (I think) the CM recently about summoning ships, which was abandoned in favour of the endeavour system. Why not do it differently and have playable Vorta with an option to summon one of our other captains?
Give players the ability to recreate one of their other characters (technically, they could be like a Boff) and allow us to summon those and play with them. You'd have a Vorta captain, supported by one of your other captains that you could use to do the fighting. Basically, play as a Boff under the command of a Vorta captain who is still fully customisable and so on as with all other player characters.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
You can pretend you're breen already using the uniforms they released in 2019, originally they were part of the winter event but after that ended I believe they were added to the lobi store.
I don't think I've ever implemented that strategy, I'll have to try it out sometime, thanks for the idea.