Look again at what I wrote. It doesn't matter whether our universe is ultimately restored to one where the Xindi war did happen, or whether we'll continue existing in the universe where it did.
Sure it does, because you are either saying everything you are doing is pointless, because its going to get erased, or you are saying that everything we did previously was pointless, since it all got erased.
Neither of those are good writing, and do little to make players invested in the story you are writing.
I'm not going to endlessly repeat my previous points. I've already pointed out that this 'pointlessness' could be brought up in many stories that involve time travel and the multiverse, and it was never a reason not to write those episodes. You can choose to keep ignoring it, that doesn't change the facts.
Besides that: For players, people in the real world, there could be entertainment value, Cryptic would get a lot of freedom creating new stuff, players could be kept busy for seasons to come. That's the only thing that matters, as previous time travel stories have also shown.
Lastly: feel free to come up with your own ideas. First you start saying that there's no possibility to create ENT content, people start giving examples of how it could be done and then you keep complaining that it doesn't meet your standards.
That's called moving the goalpost.
As long as others are putting in more effort to come up with ideas than you, it doesn't really support your point that there is no way there could be interesting ENT content. You haven't done anything to try and prove your point - which is, obviously, near impossible since one cannot prove the non-existence of something, but that's your problem and not mine - so you're just resorting to criticising any and all suggestions from other people.
Why are you even in this thread if you're not interested in ENT content, not interested in coming up with your own ideas and only want to maintain the opinion that it's not possible? Isn't your job done here after stating that the first time?
Surprised, not a single comment about my suggestions above... ...some seem too focused on arguing in their response, rather than looking for the positives they like and focus there, so it more constructive and expands idea's.
It be nice if they did something for Enterprise 20th Anniversary for sure! ♥ Soval the Vulcan Ambassador, had several uniforms seen in the show, and T'Pol had a few too.
Honestly I would be happy with at least a new Ent era uniform, and an NX-01 hat. I mean they have the desert uniform variant, the excursion jackets, and the Admiral's uniforms.
Also would like to see Starfleet Command and Columbia assignment patches.
We got Shran's grandson in the Discovery era. That counts. And honestly... enough of the time travel nonsense.
Time travel need not be the only means to visit the Enterprise era. Again, lack of will and/or imagination.
I'd also love to see them have a few episode designed to beam down to the Academy requiring you to use the Holodecks.
Though I'm not sure the Klingon Academy has Holodecks like the Fed's, but could easily be added. It would be nice to see a few missions requiring visiting them once and awhile. I once suggested it for the return of the mission with Tribbles and not just for Fed's. I always thought that was FUN and cute at the same time, if only the Klingon Faction had alternative goals...
Here's what they've NEVER done in a mission before though:
╘ Used the Major Faction, to change objectives or how a mission plays out, to be considered successful.
╘ Use Captains &/or their Team's Species, to assign optional objectives for unique Accolades/Tittles/Traits perhaps...
╘ Possibly others...
Might allow a bit more dynamic story telling, that changes the story or some of what transpires a little bit more. Be nice to see a few more subtle differences in how each major faction contributions to the alliance goals, without drastically changing how the next story begins. Of course the Tribble example above could be quite a drastic change, as it's more related to how TOS approached it. It might also allow how Holodeck programs to explore different outcomes entirely based on this or other criteria. Be it Major Faction, the Species, or even making major choices themselves within the missions themselves!
Might be nice to see
Fed's save and rescue the Tribbles at Academy, while the Klingons bake and cook, or vaporize them; or do they break with their expected norms? What ever they use all players in a team, have to be of the same major Faction after all.
I'd just love to see a bit more dynamic story telling, if DEVS were up to the challenge!
That's my idea, yet think a few (below) look what to argue, rather than things they agree and can build upon?
If more did that, we'd have a nicer community experience for all.
I don't think having content - even if it is minor things such as additional objectives in a mission for accolades - specifically for certain species would be that popular. It would be an unique way of doing things in the game, but what is the benefit?
Bringing in Soval would be great though. He was one of the few characters on ENT who got some character development.
Create new stuff?? The Deferi agree that it is the true balance.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I'm not going to endlessly repeat my previous points. I've already pointed out that this 'pointlessness' could be brought up in many stories that involve time travel and the multiverse, and it was never a reason not to write those episodes. You can choose to keep ignoring it, that doesn't change the facts.
Except its a common complaint about time travel episodes that they make whatever happen in them pointless, and thus, there was no reason to make them in the first place, and that they're bad episodes because of it. It exactly is a reason to not have made those episodes... its bad writing, and people don't enjoy it.
Besides that: For players, people in the real world, there could be entertainment value, Cryptic would get a lot of freedom creating new stuff, players could be kept busy for seasons to come. That's the only thing that matters, as previous time travel stories have also shown.
Except, as previous time travel stories has shown, people don't like time travel stories where everything is rendered meaningless, as there was no point to the story because of it, and people feel like it wasted their time. It isn't entertaining, its just annoying.
Lastly: feel free to come up with your own ideas. First you start saying that there's no possibility to create ENT content, people start giving examples of how it could be done and then you keep complaining that it doesn't meet your standards.
That's called moving the goalpost.
As long as others are putting in more effort to come up with ideas than you, it doesn't really support your point that there is no way there could be interesting ENT content. You haven't done anything to try and prove your point - which is, obviously, near impossible since one cannot prove the non-existence of something, but that's your problem and not mine - so you're just resorting to criticising any and all suggestions from other people.
Why are you even in this thread if you're not interested in ENT content, not interested in coming up with your own ideas and only want to maintain the opinion that it's not possible? Isn't your job done here after stating that the first time?
A. That isn't what moving goalposts is.
B. I have had many ideas on various story arcs, and mechanics, I would like to see in STO. I also hold myself to the same standards as I am holding you now, and don't post them because I am perfectly aware they are either not really good ideas, or have some sort of critical design flaw that would make implementing them difficult, if not impossible. And even if they are possible to do, they almost certainly wouldn't come out in the way that they would need to to be truly good. Anyone can just sit around and throw out random, useless, ideas, all day. That isn't productive however, and doesn't contribute anything the devs could use to expand the game. Nor does pointing out bad ideas mean you don't want content of that show in the game.
That being said. I have previously mentioned two things front Enterprise I think could work in future missions/patrols
1. The Automated Ship Repair station from "Dead Stop". This thing was incredibly old(having Vaadwaur corpses in it) and despite the NX seemingly destroying it at the end of the episode, it was seen rebuilding itself. If Cryptic ever does the big Halloween content update they want to do, adding this in as a one off mission/patrol for it would be cool. Basically it starts off with your faction leader calling you going "your ship is scheduled for some repairs. There's a neutral shipyard nearby you can get it done at!" and it directs you to this thing for that. In STO's time its much larger, and more complex, but still recognizable. Like in the episode, it kidnaps one of your crew(a BOFF perhaps), and you have to go into it to recuse them. The inside would be much like the Drozana mission in the Spectres arc. It's all dark, you can't see very far, little robot arms, and some reanimated corpses, are attacking you, and trying to stop you from getting your BOFF back, etc. etc. Make it all spooky for Halloween. It would end with it attacking your ship, and you destroying it and leaving, only for it to begin rebuilding itself after you are gone, continuing its terror across the galaxy.
2. Cold Station 12. If Cryptic ever decides to pick up the "Children of Khan" story they teased at back in the 2800 arc, having the Children of Khan raid Cold Station 12, or its successor station, to take the augment embryos there, and possible the various biological samples there for bioweapons, would make a logical mission location.
Of course it's a commonly seen complaint. We don't disagree about that. What I'm saying is that it has never been a problem for Cryptic, judging by how much time travel content we already have in the game.
B. It's fair to say that ideas that are posted here deserve to be criticised. But thus far I haven't seen a good reason from you why my proposal and those of others would not be feasible, useful, or why they're difficult to implement or so on. Those are good and fair criteria, but you haven't actually used them to tell use why the ideas presented here are not good ones. The time travel element of the story (which, as noted, only serves as a pretext to most of the content that could then be added) isn't a serious downside when there's so much content related to temporal incursions in the game.
I've indicated plenty of ways how this single story could serve as a pretext to add a wide variety of content that could - depending on what Cryptic chose to do - either be difficult or easy to implement, feasible or not, useful or useless. That's the best thing here: Cryptic would get tons of options.
Wow, this thread's really had a long road...getting from there to here.
I'm not expecting them to do much, especially if they're in the middle of some other plan. I enjoy the Enterprise themed content already in the game, and I feel like if they spent all their time working on things for this or that anniversary, they'd never get anything original done.
If I'm wrong, then I'll be pleasantly surprised. And in that case, I'll thank all of you for having Faith...of the Heart.
Call me "El," she/her only. I love my wife and I don't care who knows it!
That being said. I have previously mentioned two things front Enterprise I think could work in future missions/patrols
1. The Automated Ship Repair station from "Dead Stop". This thing was incredibly old(having Vaadwaur corpses in it) and despite the NX seemingly destroying it at the end of the episode, it was seen rebuilding itself. If Cryptic ever does the big Halloween content update they want to do, adding this in as a one off mission/patrol for it would be cool. Basically it starts off with your faction leader calling you going "your ship is scheduled for some repairs. There's a neutral shipyard nearby you can get it done at!" and it directs you to this thing for that. In STO's time its much larger, and more complex, but still recognizable. Like in the episode, it kidnaps one of your crew(a BOFF perhaps), and you have to go into it to recuse them. The inside would be much like the Drozana mission in the Spectres arc. It's all dark, you can't see very far, little robot arms, and some reanimated corpses, are attacking you, and trying to stop you from getting your BOFF back, etc. etc. Make it all spooky for Halloween. It would end with it attacking your ship, and you destroying it and leaving, only for it to begin rebuilding itself after you are gone, continuing its terror across the galaxy.
2. Cold Station 12. If Cryptic ever decides to pick up the "Children of Khan" story they teased at back in the 2800 arc, having the Children of Khan raid Cold Station 12, or its successor station, to take the augment embryos there, and possible the various biological samples there for bioweapons, would make a logical mission location.
1. This idea would basically be a redo of a single episode. It's not a bad idea and I'm sure they could make an interesting mission based on that episode. But I'm surprised you're proposing this while you thought that redoing the final battle against the Xindi and the defense of Earth against the weapon was a bad suggestion because it didn't have unresolved plot threads.
2. A fine idea too. But how would you link this with the rest of the game? That's the overarching issue that resulted in the proposals made here, an issue that I and others tried to address. I'm missing it here.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
I see what you did there.
Anyways... I believe the Devs have said that integrating anything story related from Enterprise is extremely difficult due to the time difference between Ent and STO.
The main issue is trying to figure out how to integrate into the current arc, or the next one which has been said to involve Mirror Leeta. It isn't lazyness or "lack of imagination". Its practicality based on where they want to go with the story.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Anyways... I believe the Devs have said that integrating anything story related from Enterprise is extremely difficult due to the time difference between Ent and STO.
The main issue is trying to figure out how to integrate into the current arc, or the next one which has been said to involve Mirror Leeta. It isn't lazyness or "lack of imagination". Its practicality based on where they want to go with the story.
If nothing else, maybe they could do some special "simulation" TFOs like they did with Binary Stars and Picard's attack on Mars? Refight the battle against the Xindi weapon or some such?
1. This idea would basically be a redo of a single episode. It's not a bad idea and I'm sure they could make an interesting mission based on that episode. But I'm surprised you're proposing this while you thought that redoing the final battle against the Xindi and the defense of Earth against the weapon was a bad suggestion because it didn't have unresolved plot threads.
2. A fine idea too. But how would you link this with the rest of the game? That's the overarching issue that resulted in the proposals made here, an issue that I and others tried to address. I'm missing it here.
1. The attack on Earth by the Xindi didn't have unresolved plot threads. It was decisively over, and we know everything about why it happened, who caused it, and we stopped the group manipulating the Xindi into it. The Dead Stop station is the literal example of an unresolved plot thread because the thing is still alive by the end of the episode, and we learn nothing about it.
Its like comparing Nomad to the Elachi. There is a reason why the Elachi became a story element, whereas Nomad was relegated to a item on K13. Nomad was a competently unique, accidental, entity, created by the collision of an Earth probe, and an alien probe. An entity that was totally destroyed in the one episode it appeared. The Elachi were a species that were only driven off in the one episode they appeared, and we learn nothing about their origins or real motivations in said episode.
Night and day difference.
2. All the way back when Cryptic made the 2800 arc they left in a little hint as to what the next arc was going to be at the time. During the Facility 4028 prisoner escape its explicitly mentioned two high level criminals are unaccounted for. Taris, who was noted to have had help from the Iconians in escaping, and James Fadi Mehra, aka Princep Khan, the leader of the Children of Khan augment terrorist group. Due to Cryptic being bought by PWE, and things shifting over to New Romulus/LoR, this arc never got made, so Princep Khan is still out there. Having him, and his group, be the focal point of an arc would be resolving one of STO's few unresolved plot threads.
We got conclusions to the other long running STO villains/plots. Taris(dead), Hakeev(dead), Sela(imprisoned), Torg(dead), Ja'rod(dead), Female Changeling(dead). Princep Khan is last on the list along with Mirror Leeta, and T'ket. Though, Cryptic has said they key T'ket alive intentionally for the Iconian TFOs to work, so she probably wont get fully finished off ever. And Mirror Leeta was supposed to be next on the list following ViL, but the Discovery content postponed that.
Sela got a redemption arc so she might come back as a good guy and help the republic eventually, however I was disappointed when I found out that Taris allied herself with the Iconians, Here I thought Taris was one of the few good Tal Shiar members, her personality did a complete 180, then we have the Anti Synthh Romulan group that Picard introduced that might still be running around and rebuilding their forces in the shadows.
Sela got a redemption arc so she might come back as a good guy and help the republic eventually, however I was disappointed when I found out that Taris allied herself with the Iconians, Here I thought Taris was one of the few good Tal Shiar members, her personality did a complete 180, then we have the Anti Synthh Romulan group that Picard introduced that might still be running around and rebuilding their forces in the shadows.
That said personally I don't think that there's much more ENT stuff to add, we got Daniels, 2 TCW arcs, Elachi, Xindi NPCs, Shran's grandson and that P'jem Mission, Playable Denobulans and the Earth-Romulan war just seem to be the only things left and an ENT faction would kill both these birds with one stone.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Honestly the only thing I can think of that can really be expanded on, is the beta canon fate of Columbia. Some sources claim she was found crashed on a planet in the Gamma Quadrant. The Destiny novels have Captain Hernandez still alive well into the 24th Century because proto-Borg shenanigans that are probably best left forgotten as the whole Destiny plot line was apparently convoluted and made absolutely no sense anyways. Also... the Borg in STO are nowhere near as strong as they were portrayed in the Destiny novels.
Still prefer Star Trek Legacy's take on a Borg Origin story, which is kinda hinted at in STO with the Unimatrix ships.
A one or two shot story involving Columbia would probably work, and if somehow Hernandez can be brought in as well... we'd get another Trek actor. Hell... it might even give us the highly requested NX interior!
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Still this year is kind of special, not only the 20th Anniversary of Enterprise this 26 Sept, 2001; but also the 30th year this October since Gene Roddenberry left us.
So thankful the CBS/Viacom merger, saw a revitalizing the Star Trek Legacy he created, trying to continue his vision of story telling...
Or maybe you place too high a value in your opinion.
And you are not doing the same? Like it or not, Enterpriseis a part of Star Trek. Like it or not, the show does have fans, just like any other series. Those fans and paying customers asking for content from their favorite series to be included in STO is in no way an unreasonable request.
One thing I've realized over the years is more and more the Devs don't care about the players, they develop the game THEY want.
If it isn't what they want then it's typically in the pursuit of money, if it isn't something they want or that they think will make them lots of money...it typically isn't done. When it is done it's half reared...often to be thrown away because it's something they don't care about
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
The Xindi have always been my favorite aliens from ENT. I would love it if we do a mission in where we find the "Avian" Xindi. Or maybe we can have a story in where all the Xindi factions have another civil war.
I also love the Trip's death was fake angle everyone is talking about.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
The problem with finding the Avian Xindi is that they were specifically stated to have gone extinct, which was the primary driving force for the remaining five Xindi races to unite. And if the Xindi-Avians had equivelent tech to the remaining 5... short of some kind of Preserver interference, mass evacuation through an Iconian Gate, or a Thanos Snap save... they would have been found again by even the 23rd Century, let alone the 25th.
If I remember correctly the Xindi Council meets on the former homeworld of the Avians out of respect for their fallen cousins.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
One thing I've realized over the years is more and more the Devs don't care about the players, they develop the game THEY want.
If it isn't what they want then it's typically in the pursuit of money, if it isn't something they want or that they think will make them lots of money...it typically isn't done. When it is done it's half reared...often to be thrown away because it's something they don't care about
I think your are correct and it is much more a question of believing there is no money to be made from anything Enterprise related rather than it being "hard" because it is "too far in the past."
No one is talking about making a Enterprise Fed sub faction...just honoring the series' anniversary with a little something...if even that has to be all about money that just shows they're purely motivated by greed.
Maybe if the latest legendary pack wasn't so poor they wouldn't need to worry about money so much.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
They hear "please give us an Enterprise anniversary pack!" and just wedge the foot down even harder on the pedal for more garbo Discovery content. Please, Cryptic - give us more of mincing Paul Stamets and ineffectively chasing J'Ula all over the map. It's so engaging.
Comments
I'm not going to endlessly repeat my previous points. I've already pointed out that this 'pointlessness' could be brought up in many stories that involve time travel and the multiverse, and it was never a reason not to write those episodes. You can choose to keep ignoring it, that doesn't change the facts.
Besides that: For players, people in the real world, there could be entertainment value, Cryptic would get a lot of freedom creating new stuff, players could be kept busy for seasons to come. That's the only thing that matters, as previous time travel stories have also shown.
Lastly: feel free to come up with your own ideas. First you start saying that there's no possibility to create ENT content, people start giving examples of how it could be done and then you keep complaining that it doesn't meet your standards.
That's called moving the goalpost.
As long as others are putting in more effort to come up with ideas than you, it doesn't really support your point that there is no way there could be interesting ENT content. You haven't done anything to try and prove your point - which is, obviously, near impossible since one cannot prove the non-existence of something, but that's your problem and not mine - so you're just resorting to criticising any and all suggestions from other people.
Why are you even in this thread if you're not interested in ENT content, not interested in coming up with your own ideas and only want to maintain the opinion that it's not possible? Isn't your job done here after stating that the first time?
I don't think having content - even if it is minor things such as additional objectives in a mission for accolades - specifically for certain species would be that popular. It would be an unique way of doing things in the game, but what is the benefit?
Bringing in Soval would be great though. He was one of the few characters on ENT who got some character development.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Of course it's a commonly seen complaint. We don't disagree about that. What I'm saying is that it has never been a problem for Cryptic, judging by how much time travel content we already have in the game.
B. It's fair to say that ideas that are posted here deserve to be criticised. But thus far I haven't seen a good reason from you why my proposal and those of others would not be feasible, useful, or why they're difficult to implement or so on. Those are good and fair criteria, but you haven't actually used them to tell use why the ideas presented here are not good ones. The time travel element of the story (which, as noted, only serves as a pretext to most of the content that could then be added) isn't a serious downside when there's so much content related to temporal incursions in the game.
I've indicated plenty of ways how this single story could serve as a pretext to add a wide variety of content that could - depending on what Cryptic chose to do - either be difficult or easy to implement, feasible or not, useful or useless. That's the best thing here: Cryptic would get tons of options.
I'm not expecting them to do much, especially if they're in the middle of some other plan. I enjoy the Enterprise themed content already in the game, and I feel like if they spent all their time working on things for this or that anniversary, they'd never get anything original done.
If I'm wrong, then I'll be pleasantly surprised. And in that case, I'll thank all of you for having Faith...of the Heart.
1. This idea would basically be a redo of a single episode. It's not a bad idea and I'm sure they could make an interesting mission based on that episode. But I'm surprised you're proposing this while you thought that redoing the final battle against the Xindi and the defense of Earth against the weapon was a bad suggestion because it didn't have unresolved plot threads.
2. A fine idea too. But how would you link this with the rest of the game? That's the overarching issue that resulted in the proposals made here, an issue that I and others tried to address. I'm missing it here.
Anyways... I believe the Devs have said that integrating anything story related from Enterprise is extremely difficult due to the time difference between Ent and STO.
The main issue is trying to figure out how to integrate into the current arc, or the next one which has been said to involve Mirror Leeta. It isn't lazyness or "lack of imagination". Its practicality based on where they want to go with the story.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
If nothing else, maybe they could do some special "simulation" TFOs like they did with Binary Stars and Picard's attack on Mars? Refight the battle against the Xindi weapon or some such?
Sela got a redemption arc so she might come back as a good guy and help the republic eventually, however I was disappointed when I found out that Taris allied herself with the Iconians, Here I thought Taris was one of the few good Tal Shiar members, her personality did a complete 180, then we have the Anti Synthh Romulan group that Picard introduced that might still be running around and rebuilding their forces in the shadows.
That said personally I don't think that there's much more ENT stuff to add, we got Daniels, 2 TCW arcs, Elachi, Xindi NPCs, Shran's grandson and that P'jem Mission, Playable Denobulans and the Earth-Romulan war just seem to be the only things left and an ENT faction would kill both these birds with one stone.
Still prefer Star Trek Legacy's take on a Borg Origin story, which is kinda hinted at in STO with the Unimatrix ships.
A one or two shot story involving Columbia would probably work, and if somehow Hernandez can be brought in as well... we'd get another Trek actor. Hell... it might even give us the highly requested NX interior!
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
So thankful the CBS/Viacom merger, saw a revitalizing the Star Trek Legacy he created, trying to continue his vision of story telling...
One thing I've realized over the years is more and more the Devs don't care about the players, they develop the game THEY want.
If it isn't what they want then it's typically in the pursuit of money, if it isn't something they want or that they think will make them lots of money...it typically isn't done. When it is done it's half reared...often to be thrown away because it's something they don't care about
I also love the Trip's death was fake angle everyone is talking about.
If I remember correctly the Xindi Council meets on the former homeworld of the Avians out of respect for their fallen cousins.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
No one is talking about making a Enterprise Fed sub faction...just honoring the series' anniversary with a little something...if even that has to be all about money that just shows they're purely motivated by greed.
Maybe if the latest legendary pack wasn't so poor they wouldn't need to worry about money so much.