I don't see anything wrong with what tacofang said tho. He is right in that they are paid to make the game what the game is...and he said they are willing to LISTEN and CHANGE based on feedback. The problem is that they don't do that. And look, I'm a chef. I get to decide what the recipes are. You are in fact paying me to use my recipes to make the food. I will listen to feedback from the customers of course...but at the end of the day, I am paid to do something and I need to be let to do that something. So I don't see anything wrong with what tacofang said...but the problem is that don't actually do what he said.
I have to agree, I also thought of it the same way as a Chef in a restaurant. That restaurant has it's recipes and it's methods of preparing food for the customers. If the customers don't like the food though, it's up to the restaurant to either change the food to keep customers or risk them going elsewhere. Cryptic has a huge advantage here because unlike a restaurant where we can just go elsewhere, there really is no other Star Trek game out there and they use that to their advantage.
I don't disagree with Taco, they are the ones that ultimately make the decisions and that's fine. But the decisions should be made with the consumer in mind, and as you stated.. that is not happening with Cryptic. Decisions are being made in a vacuum and right now them being the 'only game in town' for Star Trek is really what's saving them.
1: folks are really better off ignoring the elephant in the room that thinks Cryptic can do no wrong and/or all games have these problems.
2: people should keep calling out bad development behavior. Yes, games occasionally revamp their skills and require a reset. That's ok. But there is a huge difference between an occasional *intended* reset and Cryptic not knowing what they are doing and causing a reset to happen with pretty much every update. It's bad, and there is no excuse.
Surly even you don't think one minor off hand comment in a livestream is reasonable for something as major as this? This is a major bug that is player wide after all. Any other decent MMO would have an ingame warning message when you log in.
If anything, I'm more surprised we got even this.
I've seen plenty of game companies do even less in regards to major issues because its become common industry practice to not even bother with PR over things like this since gamers are known to be too toxic, intolerant, and generally unwilling to listen, to make it worthwhile. Guild Wars 2, one of the larger MMOs out there, doesn't even have someone as a dedicated community manager because they don't find it worth the time to even try with how rabid their fanbase is over ANYTHING they find issue with.
I expect no communication from any game company, beyond the stock release of new trailers for upcoming content, because years of interacting with game forums has proven people don't deserve it.
An interesting, if rather overbroad take on the matter.
What I don't understand is why gaming companies, and their cheerleaders, think they're beyond reproach?
I mean, if ANY company provides a shoddy service, provides inaccurate information and ignores customer complaints/feedback, they get complaints. Just take a look at the 'comments' on the Facebook page of any cellphone service provider or electronic goods supplier - I guarantee it won't take long for you to find complaints pertaining to poor service.
Why should game developers not be held to the same standards? What makes them so special that they can deliver a sub-par service and not be held to account for it?
You wanna know why?
Because it's entertainment. And it comes with a sense of entitlement from people - both pertaining to the industry and outside of it, meaning some players and fans - that make them think they're above any kind of reproach.
What these people doesn't seem to understand is, imho, something crucial: we're not only players. We're *customers* and while I do not, by any mean, subscribe to the narrative of "the customer is always right", we're still the ones that are, indirectly, paying for their salaries.
Or do they think that just because a CEO sign their checks they're not to be held responsible for their continued mistakes by the people that actually ALLOW that same CEO to sign anything by BUYING their product?
This of course does not mean that they have to cather to our every whim, but that they should not disregard their playerbase as Cryptic is doing.
And really, just go check the F.C.T thread and scroll down until you find this "jem" by tacofangs:
"I know it's hard to swallow, but we ARE the ones to decide how something is going to be. We are the one's being paid to do so. You are welcome to disagree with us, and we will gladly listen to your opinion on the matter, and may even change something because of it, but at the end of the day, we are the developers of the game. We're always hiring, if you'd like to sit on this side of the fence, PLEASE APPLY!"
This tell you all there is to know about this situation: they think themselves superior to the people that are actually paying for them to do their job, instead of trying to work WITH them - again, in a reasonable way.
If I were to say, to one of my client, that "I'm the one to decide how something is going to be because YOU'RE paying me to do it" I would lose that client and the backlash would hurt me MONUMENTALLY.
I don't see anything wrong with what tacofang said tho. He is right in that they are paid to make the game what the game is...and he said they are willing to LISTEN and CHANGE based on feedback. The problem is that they don't do that. And look, I'm a chef. I get to decide what the recipes are. You are in fact paying me to use my recipes to make the food. I will listen to feedback from the customers of course...but at the end of the day, I am paid to do something and I need to be let to do that something. So I don't see anything wrong with what tacofang said...but the problem is that don't actually do what he said.
I don't necessarily disagree, and the problem does lie primarily with the fact that they do not, indeed, listen to anything but their own bloathed ego.
Going by your example: if day after day, for months on end, the feedback you receive is - and it's the first thing that comes to mind - "this recipe is good, but it's too salty" you'd change it, right?
So yeah, they don't listen and they don't care, because ultimately they think that they can do no wrong and are above any and all kind of criticism. That's not how things work, in ANY field.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
They have an official web site and official forums and a launcher window that allows announcements, and yet they do not bother to use them, opting to go with 3rd-party-run social media outlets like twitter and facebook to post the announcements... They are doing it backwards. They should be posting the announcements on their official website and then dropping the single link into everything else.
I've seen this exact same comment made for years, and devs have always responded that they do it that way because they end up reaching far more people. More people use social media like Twitter, and Facebook, or go to gaming websites like Game Informer, or Kotaku, or Reddit, then they do to official forums for any game.
No one is asking them to only use the launcher, forums, and news blog. Why would it be so hard to use ALL methods at their disposal?
Its also typically easier to make a facebook, twitter, or reddit, post then it is to make a news blog, or update the launcher, and due to the above, the information gets disseminated anyways.
So it would take more than 30 seconds to do something, therefore it's not worth doing? How long would it take to write a post on the forums? How long would it take to add an announcement to the launcher? How long would it take to write a news blog? A day, 2 days, a week, or is it more like an hour or less?
What I want to know is how hard is it to just fix this problem they know about it for at least the last three patches so why could they have not said ok let’s fix this because it’s causing a major issue it’s like the issue with the kobali boffs who are on kdf toons who can only wear federation uniforms I was on the live stream and asked kael about this and could it get fixed that was like three months ago and no further word or a fix to that
You wanna know why?
Because it's entertainment. And it comes with a sense of entitlement from people - both pertaining to the industry and outside of it, meaning some players and fans - that make them think they're above any kind of reproach.
What these people doesn't seem to understand is, imho, something crucial: we're not only players. We're *customers* and while I do not, by any mean, subscribe to the narrative of "the customer is always right", we're still the ones that are, indirectly, paying for their salaries.
Or do they think that just because a CEO sign their checks they're not to be held responsible for their continued mistakes by the people that actually ALLOW that same CEO to sign anything by BUYING their product?
First of all no were not the Costumer were more like cattle in such a comparison sadly.
Why?
Because perfect world like most other gaming companies are Publicly traded companies, wich means their customers and the people they cater to are the shareholders not us, our job in such companies is simply to spend money, generate revenue and profits they can then pay out to their investors on a yearly basis.
For publicly traded companies shoddy quality is often actually a trademark not just in gaming because Investors want to see the maximum amount of return for as little money spent as possible.
Wich costumers sit opposed to, because as a Customers we wish for as much quality as cheap as possible for our money.
Fact is fixing bugs does not make companies money selling stuff does.
That's why all the big companies tend to provide often shoddy quality, and most of the time shrug any consumer resentment off.
Because the fact is they do not care about us the only thing they care for is happy shareholders.
So even if everyone here were to suddenly boycott paying for STO, they would not change anything they just shut down STO cause it does not generate anymore revenue, that is the sad fact.
Boycotts never really worked for that reason because for a Chinese Juggernaut like Perfect Wold STO is one small game out of a huge business.
The devs in companies like that have usually so little freedom, that blaming Cryptic for a lot of this I feel is not entirely fair even, their staff has been cut before, because STO was just not making so much money and now a far smaller staff needs to try to both maintain the game any way they can while generating enough money to justify its existence to the higher ups.
As for CEO's their position is usually an elected one with the Board of Directors in most companies so the shareholders decide who steers the company, so yeah they are not held responsible for any mistakes as long those do not affect the Value of the company negatively.
Comparing corporate structures just doesn't work, yes for a normal company that is privately owned Customer satisfaction is usually make or break due to them often beeing rather small and relying on word of mouth, but for companies like this, what we want often opposes what the shareholders want and in such a conflict shareholders will always win.
Even a chef will ask a customer how he wants his meat cooked, taking some instruction from a customer whose yelp review may be worth more than the cost of their dinner.
I don't care about the respec, TRIBBLE happens. My rants on communication, come from the feeling of disrespect I get when I realize the problem is still, players don't know they are sitting on a problem. That's the bare minimum I talk about. Defend your lack of apologies, tell people to get a job here to make changes? (how does that work if the job isn't "boss"?), blame toxic culture or whatever, none of that helps your basic customers who aren't on social media (being toxic and telling you how to do your job), but are instead wondering why this game suddenly plays crappy.
Frankly I see why the cast of Discovery, plays Dungeons and Dragons on a regular stream as opposed to say?......Star Trek Online.
Note=I quickly logged in this morning to make sure the game would launch (was reading the thread on people not being able to log on) and didn't see anything that would indicate they have told the masses in game yet. So if they have,
1: folks are really better off ignoring the elephant in the room that thinks Cryptic can do no wrong and/or all games have these problems.
Please guys, just take this advice. He's posting just to get a reaction, no one is actually as tone deaf and oblivious as 'you know who' appears to be. It's all just to get a reaction, that should be obvious. Don't fall for it, just skip over it.. no need to even read it.
Going by your example: if day after day, for months on end, the feedback you receive is - and it's the first thing that comes to mind - "this recipe is good, but it's too salty" you'd change it, right?
So yeah, they don't listen and they don't care, because ultimately they think that they can do no wrong and are above any and all kind of criticism. That's not how things work, in ANY field.
I think we can all agree there. While we all understand that Cryptic has the right to make the final decision, the lack of acceptance of any input from consumers is a poor business practice. In this case, Cryptic has the advantage of lack of competition since there is no where else to go for a Star Trek themed experience. However, if things get bad enough, eventually players will sill leave, in the restaurant example, they will just start cooking at home or ordering Door Dash. Being as to how I really do like this game, I genuinely hope that Cryptic doesn't let things get that far gone.
1: folks are really better off ignoring the elephant in the room that thinks Cryptic can do no wrong and/or all games have these problems.
Please guys, just take this advice. He's posting just to get a reaction, no one is actually as tone deaf and oblivious as 'you know who' appears to be. It's all just to get a reaction, that should be obvious. Don't fall for it, just skip over it.. no need to even read it.
Going by your example: if day after day, for months on end, the feedback you receive is - and it's the first thing that comes to mind - "this recipe is good, but it's too salty" you'd change it, right?
So yeah, they don't listen and they don't care, because ultimately they think that they can do no wrong and are above any and all kind of criticism. That's not how things work, in ANY field.
I think we can all agree there. While we all understand that Cryptic has the right to make the final decision, the lack of acceptance of any input from consumers is a poor business practice. In this case, Cryptic has the advantage of lack of competition since there is no where else to go for a Star Trek themed experience. However, if things get bad enough, eventually players will sill leave, in the restaurant example, they will just start cooking at home or ordering Door Dash. Being as to how I really do like this game, I genuinely hope that Cryptic doesn't let things get that far gone.
I agree 100% with everything. *Especially* the first part, quoting GrandNagus: just ignore Cryptic's Ultimate Defender. He's not worth the effort, believe us.
As for the rest, that's another thing this team doesn't seem to understand: most of the people that do critize them don't do it because they're whiners that just want stuff for themselves. They do it because they care about the game and its wellbeing.
It's like having a friend that's doing something monumentally stupid: if they are indeed your friend, you say something, even if it gets ignored, even if it causes anger because of a perceived slight, even if it costs you that friend for a time.
But they should also consider something that factors in HEAVILY when considering why people play STO: it's the only MMORPG about Star Trek. And when there's no alternative, people will flock to you no matter what. But that doesn't mean that they will stay if things go bad.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Apparently there is a Twitter post or post somewhere they know it’s going to make skills invalid tomorrow again
It is posted in the comments in the news section of this forum. Apparently there was a plan to patch tomorrow, but it was going to cause another re-spec for everyone...So, now it appears they have canceled the patch for tomorrow, and are hoping to try a different patch later this week that will not cause a re-spec.
Apparently there is a Twitter post or post somewhere they know it’s going to make skills invalid tomorrow again
It is posted in the comments in the news section of this forum. Apparently there was a plan to patch tomorrow, but it was going to cause another re-spec for everyone...So, now it appears they have canceled the patch for tomorrow, and are hoping to try a different patch later this week that will not cause a re-spec.
So no patch today? So confusing but I'm glad they are aware and at least not making another mess of a patch.
As mentioned above, this update has been delayed until tomorrow, 12/16. There will be no need to respec, and that issue should be fixed for the future.
https://arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11482023
They're offering something for compensation and while the gesture is appreciated, I question the wisdom behind giving free retrain tokens, as the problem wasn't with them since we had a free one every time the issue happened, but with the fact we had to go through it.
That's like giving a patient who went through several benign but painful surgeries another free one because you kept messing them up. The patient just doesn't want to go through these again.
Also "A Thank You Upgrade"? Really?
"An Apology Upgrade" was too hard to write down, you had to subtly turn the situation from "we're sorry you have to go through all this several times" to "thank you for your patience", which we actually lost because of the problem keeping returning and no answer being given until now?
https://arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11482023
They're offering something for compensation and while the gesture is appreciated, I question the wisdom behind giving free retrain tokens, as the problem wasn't with them since we had a free one every time the issue happened, but with the fact we had to go through it.
That's like giving a patient who went through several benign but painful surgeries another free one because you kept messing them up. The patient just doesn't want to go through these again.
Also "A Thank You Upgrade"? Really?
"An Apology Upgrade" was too hard to write down, you had to subtly turn the situation from "we're sorry you have to go through all this several times" to "thank you for your patience", which we actually lost because of the problem keeping returning and no answer being given until now?
While I have no doubt that the latest shower of "WTF comments" coming their way from pretty much every side played heavily on them deciding to both delay the patch AND giving us this free promotion, I truly don't think there is any need for this.
Come on guys: yes, it's a "thank you upgrade" not an "apology/we're sorry upgrade", but does that TRULY matter? A rose by any other name...
If they want to think that they shifted anything around by doing this, let them think it. WE know the truth. And we know that we had (and always will have) the right to hold them accountable when they do things badly *especially* if they refuse to aknowledge the situation.
But for now, let's just enjoy this free stuff and be glad that they did not make us go through a fourth respec, ok?
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
https://arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11482023
They're offering something for compensation and while the gesture is appreciated, I question the wisdom behind giving free retrain tokens, as the problem wasn't with them since we had a free one every time the issue happened, but with the fact we had to go through it.
That's like giving a patient who went through several benign but painful surgeries another free one because you kept messing them up. The patient just doesn't want to go through these again.
Also "A Thank You Upgrade"? Really?
"An Apology Upgrade" was too hard to write down, you had to subtly turn the situation from "we're sorry you have to go through all this several times" to "thank you for your patience", which we actually lost because of the problem keeping returning and no answer being given until now?
This reaction takes being petty to a whole new level.
This reaction takes being petty to a whole new level.
Those of use who have not been able to log in to the game for 24 days (and counting) since October, might disagree with your assessment of the commenters reaction.
I don't know.... I do kinda agree. But that's mostly a byproduct of my being absolutely sick and tired of the (fairly) recent trend of people/companies etc NEVER owning up to mistakes.
I mean, don't get me wrong - Cryptic's gesture is nice, no doubt. But I still don't understand why the word "sorry" disappeared from some/most business' dictionaries?
^this
Had it been another time, in another reality, I wouldn't even have pointed this out and gone "well that's a nice gesture, but please make sure it doesn't happen again, thank you".
Unfortunately, we live in a world where game companies can release a broken product that can be full of bugs wherever you go, force you to do the same thing again and again after a patch, or even brick your whole game system which needs you to meddle with some settings you should have to touch or even have the owner of the game system to be the ones to release a patch...
And that's not including abuse towards employees, nonexistent CMs and other uncaring, lawyer-frenzying or even unethical behind-the-scenes things, and at best all you get is a sheepish "sorry, our bad, have a virtual consumable that cost us nothing while we look into this" (again, when they do apologize and don't just go "thanks for your patience" as if our patience was always taken for granted) quickly announced on social media or at worst get high scores and even game awards despite their awful resume.
How long does it take before customers as a whole get finally sick of this worsening situation and stop accepting token, empty non-apologies and hold them accountable for all this in a meaningful way?
In my case, call me cynical if you want, but the threshold has been passed a while ago and I'm done with those little damage control gestures that don't solve the core issues, and are told as if it was no-one's fault for not acknowledging them, especially when they keep occurring.
This reaction takes being petty to a whole new level.
Those of use who have not been able to log in to the game for 24 days (and counting) since October, might disagree with your assessment of the commenters reaction.
The comment had nothing to do with login issues at all and has no effect on my assessment in any way. Lets stay on topic here shall we?
Had it been another time, in another reality, I wouldn't even have pointed this out and gone "well that's a nice gesture, but please make sure it doesn't happen again, thank you".
Unfortunately, we live in a world where game companies can release a broken product that can be full of bugs wherever you go, force you to do the same thing again and again after a patch, or even brick your whole game system which needs you to meddle with some settings you should have to touch or even have the owner of the game system to be the ones to release a patch...
And that's not including abuse towards employees, nonexistent CMs and other uncaring, lawyer-frenzying or even unethical behind-the-scenes things, and at best all you get is a sheepish "sorry, our bad, have a virtual consumable that cost us nothing while we look into this" (again, when they do apologize and don't just go "thanks for your patience" as if our patience was always taken for granted) quickly announced on social media or at worst get high scores and even game awards despite their awful resume.
How long does it take before customers as a whole get finally sick of this worsening situation and stop accepting token, empty non-apologies and hold them accountable for all this in a meaningful way?
In my case, call me cynical if you want, but the threshold has been passed a while ago and I'm done with those little damage control gestures that don't solve the core issues, and are told as if it was no-one's fault for not acknowledging them, especially when they keep occurring.
While I share many of your complaints and issues, it's also important to acknowledge when we see signs of positive change. Encouraging that change will hopefully, get them to change the way they do things.
What Cryptic needs more then anything else is a complete change in direction with how it handles it's player base. I'll agree with you 100% that it's been completely and totally flawed at every level for years. Honestly, it's been shockingly bad in just about every way. But ultimately, if I see them doing something that feels like they're trying to change that, I personally believe encouragement is a better method then criticism for not doing enough at one time. A studio like this is going to take some time, I just prefer to encourage them when I feel they make an actual attempt.
The problem with replies like yours is it opens the door for them to just say 'we tried, it didn't work.' They actually found a problem in a patch and postponed it, they fixed it, they offered a consolation.. if people still rip them for it, what's their incentive to do better next time when the easy and lazy approach they have employed to this point gets them the same result with less effort?
The problem with replies like yours is it opens the door for them to just say 'we tried, it didn't work.' They actually found a problem in a patch and postponed it, they fixed it, they offered a consolation.. if people still rip them for it, what's their incentive to do better next time when the easy and lazy approach they have employed to this point gets them the same result with less effort?
Fully accepting apologies without any question/objection, "all is forgiven" and all that stuff after keeping things messed up too long until people start making too much noise, repeated ad-nauseam is precisely why these practices keep happening in the industry.
And a similar problem happens in other aspects of life.
When you keep getting bullied by someone and they eventually get caught and forced to apology because it became too visible, you're completely within your right to say "Apology accepted, but still TRIBBLE you" or even "no, the damage is done, your apology is meaningless, just leave me alone" without having others say "oh look at this ungrateful brat, the bully apologies and they still won't let go!".
Complaining about aspects of an apology may not look good for some, and the line between "not letting everything slide so easily" and "ungratefulness" is never clear, but it's not all black-and-white.
I think that comparing Cryptic to a bully is just plain stupid...
You want to know what I think? I think that Cryptic is a victim in all this as much as we see ourselves. I would like to point out that before PWE bought them, Cryptic actively engaged with the community. Afterward, they retreated in on themselves. After PWE the focus seemed to shift away from servicing the community the already had to go after the community they didn't. They stopped posting on the forums and almost exclusively embracing social media and out-of-network communities. After examination of things from multiple angles, I conclude that their lack of engagement with us is part of PWE's policy. We are now dealing with a Cryptic that is a stark contrast to the one that existed before PWE "saved" them. They do not seem to have the same creative drive that they had before. Everything they do now seems to fit tightly within the bounds of a corporate equation. There seems to be no flexibility.
This is my impression of the way things are. I am not saying for sure that this is how things actually are. But to PWE, the bird in the hand is worthless next to the two in the bush. We don't matter to the ones holding the money bags... They want to lure people in who might spend a few dollars before going into lurker-in-the-shadows mode.
I hated Cryptic until Jack Emmert left Cryptic. It was not Cryptic that I hated, it was Jack himself. This hatred towards Jack stems all the way back to City of Heroes and continued on with the straight up lies that he told about Star Trek Online before it was released. he fed us so much B.S. about this game and when it came out, it was absolutely nothing like how he had described it. This game is not even half of what he made it out to be. I can say for one thing, it was a very disappointing experience for a lot of players. The mass exodus just one month after release was telling. Not only was this game nothing like he said it would be, but it was so far from being a finished game, it was honestly still in Alpha stages when the game was released. I wouldn't even consider it Beta stages yet.
Jack earned himself his bad reputation. So much so that as soon as they announced that he was joining the team for DC Universe, I said my goodbyes to my friends there and left before he even officially started his first day of work.
None of my blame of what this game is today goes to Cryptic. All of my blame goes to "Perfect" World. If it were not for the fact that I was dumb enough to buy the pre-release of the game that came with a Lifetime Sub, I would not be playing this game at all. I do not support this game financially at all. I let the Zen accumulate over literally years.
At one time, I played several different classes from all three factions that required leveling through story content. I stopped playing Klingons when the Hegh'ta Heavy Bird-of-Prey was overcome as the top tier BoP for the Klingon faction and left behind without even having an option to upgrade the ship and keep it relevant. Now, it's just a great looking BoP collecting dust because it has become irrelevant. After that left a bad taste in mouth mouth I started exclusively playing Federation because they at least found a way to allow me to remain in my Star Cruiser by making a Fleet version that is now upgradable (even though they got ripped off on the Mastery Unlocks...) to T5-X.
This game puts too much focus on "Buy me buy me!!!" items on their market and not enough focus on fixing bugs that have been around since near the very beginning of the game. Players who come back from time to time in hopes that somebody in PW finally takes the leash off of the people in Cryptic are quickly let down when they come back to a game that has the same ol bugs that have been here all that time...but hey...they have tons of new ships that people are showing off from all that cash they spent on lock boxes and tons of new ships in the Zen store!
The one thing this game is doing right is new content from time to time, but as I have seen some people suggest, maybe it is time to put that new content on hold for a small bit and get these damned bugs fixed!
But alas, I am but one person with one voice that is nothing more than a ruffle of the feathers in a crowd full of roaring lions.
Comments
I have to agree, I also thought of it the same way as a Chef in a restaurant. That restaurant has it's recipes and it's methods of preparing food for the customers. If the customers don't like the food though, it's up to the restaurant to either change the food to keep customers or risk them going elsewhere. Cryptic has a huge advantage here because unlike a restaurant where we can just go elsewhere, there really is no other Star Trek game out there and they use that to their advantage.
I don't disagree with Taco, they are the ones that ultimately make the decisions and that's fine. But the decisions should be made with the consumer in mind, and as you stated.. that is not happening with Cryptic. Decisions are being made in a vacuum and right now them being the 'only game in town' for Star Trek is really what's saving them.
1: folks are really better off ignoring the elephant in the room that thinks Cryptic can do no wrong and/or all games have these problems.
2: people should keep calling out bad development behavior. Yes, games occasionally revamp their skills and require a reset. That's ok. But there is a huge difference between an occasional *intended* reset and Cryptic not knowing what they are doing and causing a reset to happen with pretty much every update. It's bad, and there is no excuse.
3: see number 1 above.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
An interesting, if rather overbroad take on the matter.
I don't necessarily disagree, and the problem does lie primarily with the fact that they do not, indeed, listen to anything but their own bloathed ego.
Going by your example: if day after day, for months on end, the feedback you receive is - and it's the first thing that comes to mind - "this recipe is good, but it's too salty" you'd change it, right?
So yeah, they don't listen and they don't care, because ultimately they think that they can do no wrong and are above any and all kind of criticism. That's not how things work, in ANY field.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
First of all no were not the Costumer were more like cattle in such a comparison sadly.
Why?
Because perfect world like most other gaming companies are Publicly traded companies, wich means their customers and the people they cater to are the shareholders not us, our job in such companies is simply to spend money, generate revenue and profits they can then pay out to their investors on a yearly basis.
For publicly traded companies shoddy quality is often actually a trademark not just in gaming because Investors want to see the maximum amount of return for as little money spent as possible.
Wich costumers sit opposed to, because as a Customers we wish for as much quality as cheap as possible for our money.
Fact is fixing bugs does not make companies money selling stuff does.
That's why all the big companies tend to provide often shoddy quality, and most of the time shrug any consumer resentment off.
Because the fact is they do not care about us the only thing they care for is happy shareholders.
So even if everyone here were to suddenly boycott paying for STO, they would not change anything they just shut down STO cause it does not generate anymore revenue, that is the sad fact.
Boycotts never really worked for that reason because for a Chinese Juggernaut like Perfect Wold STO is one small game out of a huge business.
The devs in companies like that have usually so little freedom, that blaming Cryptic for a lot of this I feel is not entirely fair even, their staff has been cut before, because STO was just not making so much money and now a far smaller staff needs to try to both maintain the game any way they can while generating enough money to justify its existence to the higher ups.
As for CEO's their position is usually an elected one with the Board of Directors in most companies so the shareholders decide who steers the company, so yeah they are not held responsible for any mistakes as long those do not affect the Value of the company negatively.
Comparing corporate structures just doesn't work, yes for a normal company that is privately owned Customer satisfaction is usually make or break due to them often beeing rather small and relying on word of mouth, but for companies like this, what we want often opposes what the shareholders want and in such a conflict shareholders will always win.
I don't care about the respec, TRIBBLE happens. My rants on communication, come from the feeling of disrespect I get when I realize the problem is still, players don't know they are sitting on a problem. That's the bare minimum I talk about. Defend your lack of apologies, tell people to get a job here to make changes? (how does that work if the job isn't "boss"?), blame toxic culture or whatever, none of that helps your basic customers who aren't on social media (being toxic and telling you how to do your job), but are instead wondering why this game suddenly plays crappy.
Frankly I see why the cast of Discovery, plays Dungeons and Dragons on a regular stream as opposed to say?......Star Trek Online.
Note=I quickly logged in this morning to make sure the game would launch (was reading the thread on people not being able to log on) and didn't see anything that would indicate they have told the masses in game yet. So if they have,
Please guys, just take this advice. He's posting just to get a reaction, no one is actually as tone deaf and oblivious as 'you know who' appears to be. It's all just to get a reaction, that should be obvious. Don't fall for it, just skip over it.. no need to even read it.
I think we can all agree there. While we all understand that Cryptic has the right to make the final decision, the lack of acceptance of any input from consumers is a poor business practice. In this case, Cryptic has the advantage of lack of competition since there is no where else to go for a Star Trek themed experience. However, if things get bad enough, eventually players will sill leave, in the restaurant example, they will just start cooking at home or ordering Door Dash. Being as to how I really do like this game, I genuinely hope that Cryptic doesn't let things get that far gone.
I agree 100% with everything. *Especially* the first part, quoting GrandNagus: just ignore Cryptic's Ultimate Defender. He's not worth the effort, believe us.
As for the rest, that's another thing this team doesn't seem to understand: most of the people that do critize them don't do it because they're whiners that just want stuff for themselves. They do it because they care about the game and its wellbeing.
It's like having a friend that's doing something monumentally stupid: if they are indeed your friend, you say something, even if it gets ignored, even if it causes anger because of a perceived slight, even if it costs you that friend for a time.
But they should also consider something that factors in HEAVILY when considering why people play STO: it's the only MMORPG about Star Trek. And when there's no alternative, people will flock to you no matter what. But that doesn't mean that they will stay if things go bad.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
It is posted in the comments in the news section of this forum. Apparently there was a plan to patch tomorrow, but it was going to cause another re-spec for everyone...So, now it appears they have canceled the patch for tomorrow, and are hoping to try a different patch later this week that will not cause a re-spec.
So no patch today? So confusing but I'm glad they are aware and at least not making another mess of a patch.
Original STO beta tester.
Be glad the fourth one was stopped in time and please come back.
They're offering something for compensation and while the gesture is appreciated, I question the wisdom behind giving free retrain tokens, as the problem wasn't with them since we had a free one every time the issue happened, but with the fact we had to go through it.
That's like giving a patient who went through several benign but painful surgeries another free one because you kept messing them up. The patient just doesn't want to go through these again.
Also "A Thank You Upgrade"? Really?
"An Apology Upgrade" was too hard to write down, you had to subtly turn the situation from "we're sorry you have to go through all this several times" to "thank you for your patience", which we actually lost because of the problem keeping returning and no answer being given until now?
You might even call it a token gesture on their part.
Tho honestly I'm just grateful they finally communicated something.
While I have no doubt that the latest shower of "WTF comments" coming their way from pretty much every side played heavily on them deciding to both delay the patch AND giving us this free promotion, I truly don't think there is any need for this.
Come on guys: yes, it's a "thank you upgrade" not an "apology/we're sorry upgrade", but does that TRULY matter? A rose by any other name...
If they want to think that they shifted anything around by doing this, let them think it. WE know the truth. And we know that we had (and always will have) the right to hold them accountable when they do things badly *especially* if they refuse to aknowledge the situation.
But for now, let's just enjoy this free stuff and be glad that they did not make us go through a fourth respec, ok?
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
This reaction takes being petty to a whole new level.
Those of use who have not been able to log in to the game for 24 days (and counting) since October, might disagree with your assessment of the commenters reaction.
Had it been another time, in another reality, I wouldn't even have pointed this out and gone "well that's a nice gesture, but please make sure it doesn't happen again, thank you".
Unfortunately, we live in a world where game companies can release a broken product that can be full of bugs wherever you go, force you to do the same thing again and again after a patch, or even brick your whole game system which needs you to meddle with some settings you should have to touch or even have the owner of the game system to be the ones to release a patch...
And that's not including abuse towards employees, nonexistent CMs and other uncaring, lawyer-frenzying or even unethical behind-the-scenes things, and at best all you get is a sheepish "sorry, our bad, have a virtual consumable that cost us nothing while we look into this" (again, when they do apologize and don't just go "thanks for your patience" as if our patience was always taken for granted) quickly announced on social media or at worst get high scores and even game awards despite their awful resume.
How long does it take before customers as a whole get finally sick of this worsening situation and stop accepting token, empty non-apologies and hold them accountable for all this in a meaningful way?
In my case, call me cynical if you want, but the threshold has been passed a while ago and I'm done with those little damage control gestures that don't solve the core issues, and are told as if it was no-one's fault for not acknowledging them, especially when they keep occurring.
The comment had nothing to do with login issues at all and has no effect on my assessment in any way. Lets stay on topic here shall we?
While I share many of your complaints and issues, it's also important to acknowledge when we see signs of positive change. Encouraging that change will hopefully, get them to change the way they do things.
What Cryptic needs more then anything else is a complete change in direction with how it handles it's player base. I'll agree with you 100% that it's been completely and totally flawed at every level for years. Honestly, it's been shockingly bad in just about every way. But ultimately, if I see them doing something that feels like they're trying to change that, I personally believe encouragement is a better method then criticism for not doing enough at one time. A studio like this is going to take some time, I just prefer to encourage them when I feel they make an actual attempt.
The problem with replies like yours is it opens the door for them to just say 'we tried, it didn't work.' They actually found a problem in a patch and postponed it, they fixed it, they offered a consolation.. if people still rip them for it, what's their incentive to do better next time when the easy and lazy approach they have employed to this point gets them the same result with less effort?
And a similar problem happens in other aspects of life.
When you keep getting bullied by someone and they eventually get caught and forced to apology because it became too visible, you're completely within your right to say "Apology accepted, but still TRIBBLE you" or even "no, the damage is done, your apology is meaningless, just leave me alone" without having others say "oh look at this ungrateful brat, the bully apologies and they still won't let go!".
Complaining about aspects of an apology may not look good for some, and the line between "not letting everything slide so easily" and "ungratefulness" is never clear, but it's not all black-and-white.
I hated Cryptic until Jack Emmert left Cryptic. It was not Cryptic that I hated, it was Jack himself. This hatred towards Jack stems all the way back to City of Heroes and continued on with the straight up lies that he told about Star Trek Online before it was released. he fed us so much B.S. about this game and when it came out, it was absolutely nothing like how he had described it. This game is not even half of what he made it out to be. I can say for one thing, it was a very disappointing experience for a lot of players. The mass exodus just one month after release was telling. Not only was this game nothing like he said it would be, but it was so far from being a finished game, it was honestly still in Alpha stages when the game was released. I wouldn't even consider it Beta stages yet.
Jack earned himself his bad reputation. So much so that as soon as they announced that he was joining the team for DC Universe, I said my goodbyes to my friends there and left before he even officially started his first day of work.
None of my blame of what this game is today goes to Cryptic. All of my blame goes to "Perfect" World. If it were not for the fact that I was dumb enough to buy the pre-release of the game that came with a Lifetime Sub, I would not be playing this game at all. I do not support this game financially at all. I let the Zen accumulate over literally years.
At one time, I played several different classes from all three factions that required leveling through story content. I stopped playing Klingons when the Hegh'ta Heavy Bird-of-Prey was overcome as the top tier BoP for the Klingon faction and left behind without even having an option to upgrade the ship and keep it relevant. Now, it's just a great looking BoP collecting dust because it has become irrelevant. After that left a bad taste in mouth mouth I started exclusively playing Federation because they at least found a way to allow me to remain in my Star Cruiser by making a Fleet version that is now upgradable (even though they got ripped off on the Mastery Unlocks...) to T5-X.
This game puts too much focus on "Buy me buy me!!!" items on their market and not enough focus on fixing bugs that have been around since near the very beginning of the game. Players who come back from time to time in hopes that somebody in PW finally takes the leash off of the people in Cryptic are quickly let down when they come back to a game that has the same ol bugs that have been here all that time...but hey...they have tons of new ships that people are showing off from all that cash they spent on lock boxes and tons of new ships in the Zen store!
The one thing this game is doing right is new content from time to time, but as I have seen some people suggest, maybe it is time to put that new content on hold for a small bit and get these damned bugs fixed!
But alas, I am but one person with one voice that is nothing more than a ruffle of the feathers in a crowd full of roaring lions.