I think that comparing Cryptic to a bully is just plain stupid...
I wasn't comparing Cryptic to a bully, I was pointing out how in many situations, no matter how bad someone messes up or purposely has bad habits, the usual standard is that if it becomes too much and they simply apologize and/or give you a shiny thingy in compensation, you should pretty much forgive them completely and even praise them, and if you do not, you're seen as petty or ungrateful.
Bullies and game companies just happen to get the same treatment in that regard.
Which is something that is used against consumers a lot to deflect valid criticism.
One of my recent "favorite" examples is No Man's Sky. Promised a lot of stuff, released with... a questionable amount of content, to stay polite, while the higher-ups were playing dumb and trying to do some laughable damage control.
It eventually recovered and a lot of the promised stuff was eventually added over time.
But as opposed to go "well, you finally updated the game to what it was supposed to be from the beginning, thanks but don't do this BS again, please", the general consensus was "OMG, you listened and greatly improved the game, you're the best, have a reward for your efforts!".
Which basically sent the message: "as long as you eventually give the stuff you promised would be in your game, feel free to release it at the price you want in the state you want while lying about having the features it actually doesn't have".
One of my recent "favorite" examples is No Man's Sky. Promised a lot of stuff, released with... a questionable amount of content, to stay polite, while the higher-ups were playing dumb and trying to do some laughable damage control.
It eventually recovered and a lot of the promised stuff was eventually added over time.
But as opposed to go "well, you finally updated the game to what it was supposed to be from the beginning, thanks but don't do this BS again, please", the general consensus was "OMG, you listened and greatly improved the game, you're the best, have a reward for your efforts!".
Which basically sent the message: "as long as you eventually give the stuff you promised would be in your game, feel free to release it at the price you want in the state you want while lying about having the features it actually doesn't have".
If this is how you feel, very well.. but honestly, I can't help feel sorry for you. You will never let yourself be happy with anything, once something fails to meet expectations you will never allow for it to be redeemed and that's just a shame. If the entire player base of the gaming industry adopted this stance then no company would ever take any steps to improve anything.. why bother? you get one shot and you're done.. nothing after the fact matters. If a game doesn't land initially, fold the studio and start a new one.
And for the record, as someone that has played NMS for years, the initial reaction was indeed one of 'finally you are delivering what you promised.' Players were appreciative but by no means overjoyed at first, it took years and a pattern of established improvement to win people over. Even through Atlas Rises, the community was luke warm at best. Next is where things started to turn around and then they started delivering more then what they promised. They took a similar approach to Cryptic, they acknowledged the missteps in their release but to the best of my knowledge never issued a formal apology containing the word 'sorry.' Still, people allowed them to try and make things better and today No Man's Sky is quite a good game.. at least in my opinion. Do I think Cryptic has this level of redemption in them? I do not.. but I am willing to try and be fair and acknowledge when they do things correctly. I have not forgotten the actions of the past, just weighing the good with the bad instead of focusing entirely on one side of the spectrum.
We have many here that will bash Cryptic no matter what, we have a couple that will praise them no matter what.. I try to make sure I don't sit in either camp.
Is this signs of positive change tho? Is it REALLY? When Kael's latest patch note post had the wrong DATE on it. Followed by not having news posted on other social media on the change of the patch date. Not to mention his ABSOLUTE absence in the game crashing issue thread that the latest patch has extended to include more players. Is he even TALKING with the devs at this point? You know, something that is a part of HIS BLOODY JOB. At this point, in all honesty, until they actually fire him and get a new CM, I'm gonna say no, whatever they do is NOT a sign of positive change. The devs can't do their jobs well if the CM isn't telling them what the community would like and the community won't be happy if the CM isn't telling us what the devs are working on to make the game better for us. Yeah yeah, free swag is nice...but I care more about how you treat me over the actual value of the items personally.
That said...not sure how much I can blame Cryptic at this point for the tone of the blog post. Considering how much of what the devs wanted communicated to the players somehow never reached Kael for some mysterious reason. I mean I suppose the fact that they keep him on staff ultimately makes it their responsibility...but yeah...he needs to go before I am willing to say that Cryptic is showing signs of positive changes as far as their relationship with the player base.
To be fair, my comments were made in the brief window between them taking these steps and everything you just said. While I acknowledge that they took the right steps in the end, by no means do I think 'everything is fixed now,' and your points illustrate why feeling that way would be foolish.
As for Kael, I will just say I have absolutely no argument with anything you just said. We see eye to eye on that topic.
If this is how you feel, very well.. but honestly, I can't help feel sorry for you. You will never let yourself be happy with anything, once something fails to meet expectations you will never allow for it to be redeemed and that's just a shame. If the entire player base of the gaming industry adopted this stance then no company would ever take any steps to improve anything..
*facepalm*
Once again with the all or nothing.
First, I won't talk about the "you sad pitiable little person" jab because I have better things to talk about.
I'm just gonna say (again) that I'll keep giving praise and credit where it's due and criticism where it's deserved, even if it's for the same thing, to multi-m/billion dollar companies whose higher-ups and public faces don't do their job properly.
Also, if the entire player base of the gaming industry adopted this stance, perhaps EA would be long dead and buried and studios they killed off would be still around instead of being shadows of themselves, for a start.
But I'm not one of the Fates and neither are you, so who knows, but you can't act like the current situation should be 100% acceptable and considered the only reasonable way.
why bother? you get one shot and you're done.. nothing after the fact matters. If a game doesn't land initially, fold the studio and start a new one.
One shot?
ONE shot?
Delays exist, you know.
Apologizing ASAP because a feature won't be possible at launch is possible and may or may not happen later, you know.
Not lying about graphical quality with CG trailers is feasible, you know.
Rebuilding games that are broken or not meeting the original goals, instead of just adding some bandaid and acting like it's all part of the plan without apologies, works too, you know (FF XIV ; potentially Metroid Prime 4).
Oh, and also, just because Kael still can't do his job properly:
Comments
I wasn't comparing Cryptic to a bully, I was pointing out how in many situations, no matter how bad someone messes up or purposely has bad habits, the usual standard is that if it becomes too much and they simply apologize and/or give you a shiny thingy in compensation, you should pretty much forgive them completely and even praise them, and if you do not, you're seen as petty or ungrateful.
Bullies and game companies just happen to get the same treatment in that regard.
Which is something that is used against consumers a lot to deflect valid criticism.
One of my recent "favorite" examples is No Man's Sky. Promised a lot of stuff, released with... a questionable amount of content, to stay polite, while the higher-ups were playing dumb and trying to do some laughable damage control.
It eventually recovered and a lot of the promised stuff was eventually added over time.
But as opposed to go "well, you finally updated the game to what it was supposed to be from the beginning, thanks but don't do this BS again, please", the general consensus was "OMG, you listened and greatly improved the game, you're the best, have a reward for your efforts!".
Which basically sent the message: "as long as you eventually give the stuff you promised would be in your game, feel free to release it at the price you want in the state you want while lying about having the features it actually doesn't have".
If this is how you feel, very well.. but honestly, I can't help feel sorry for you. You will never let yourself be happy with anything, once something fails to meet expectations you will never allow for it to be redeemed and that's just a shame. If the entire player base of the gaming industry adopted this stance then no company would ever take any steps to improve anything.. why bother? you get one shot and you're done.. nothing after the fact matters. If a game doesn't land initially, fold the studio and start a new one.
And for the record, as someone that has played NMS for years, the initial reaction was indeed one of 'finally you are delivering what you promised.' Players were appreciative but by no means overjoyed at first, it took years and a pattern of established improvement to win people over. Even through Atlas Rises, the community was luke warm at best. Next is where things started to turn around and then they started delivering more then what they promised. They took a similar approach to Cryptic, they acknowledged the missteps in their release but to the best of my knowledge never issued a formal apology containing the word 'sorry.' Still, people allowed them to try and make things better and today No Man's Sky is quite a good game.. at least in my opinion. Do I think Cryptic has this level of redemption in them? I do not.. but I am willing to try and be fair and acknowledge when they do things correctly. I have not forgotten the actions of the past, just weighing the good with the bad instead of focusing entirely on one side of the spectrum.
We have many here that will bash Cryptic no matter what, we have a couple that will praise them no matter what.. I try to make sure I don't sit in either camp.
To be fair, my comments were made in the brief window between them taking these steps and everything you just said. While I acknowledge that they took the right steps in the end, by no means do I think 'everything is fixed now,' and your points illustrate why feeling that way would be foolish.
As for Kael, I will just say I have absolutely no argument with anything you just said. We see eye to eye on that topic.
Once again with the all or nothing.
First, I won't talk about the "you sad pitiable little person" jab because I have better things to talk about.
I'm just gonna say (again) that I'll keep giving praise and credit where it's due and criticism where it's deserved, even if it's for the same thing, to multi-m/billion dollar companies whose higher-ups and public faces don't do their job properly.
Also, if the entire player base of the gaming industry adopted this stance, perhaps EA would be long dead and buried and studios they killed off would be still around instead of being shadows of themselves, for a start.
But I'm not one of the Fates and neither are you, so who knows, but you can't act like the current situation should be 100% acceptable and considered the only reasonable way.
One shot?
ONE shot?
Delays exist, you know.
Apologizing ASAP because a feature won't be possible at launch is possible and may or may not happen later, you know.
Not lying about graphical quality with CG trailers is feasible, you know.
Rebuilding games that are broken or not meeting the original goals, instead of just adding some bandaid and acting like it's all part of the plan without apologies, works too, you know (FF XIV ; potentially Metroid Prime 4).
Oh, and also, just because Kael still can't do his job properly:
I would give you a thumbs up if I could. Good post and a great point of view.