It's funny how people were indoctrinated here. No one asking for something like 32c episode arc featuring these ships and locations, but already holding their credit cards for new skins
Time travel is banned in the 32nd century , so going there for a few missions wouldn't make any sense.
Yeah, it's not like a ship from the past could end up -by accident or not- in the 32nd century where all time travel tech has been banned and destroyed.
Discovery is CLEARLY showing that so far.
Yes, we could do that much without lore issues, however we would never be allowed to return to the current STO timeline and Cryptic is very unlikely to leave us in the 32nd century.
It's funny how people were indoctrinated here. No one asking for something like 32c episode arc featuring these ships and locations, but already holding their credit cards for new skins
Time travel is banned in the 32nd century , so going there for a few missions wouldn't make any sense.
Yeah, it's not like a ship from the past could end up -by accident or not- in the 32nd century where all time travel tech has been banned and destroyed.
Discovery is CLEARLY showing that so far.
Yes, we could do that much without lore issues, however we would never be allowed to return to the current STO timeline and Cryptic is very unlikely to leave us in the 32nd century.
True, the powers-to-be in the 32nd century could stop us from traveling back to our original time with their superior time travel tech... which doesn't exist... coz somehow everyone agreed to destroy it... and they couldn't stop Discovery from coming into this era.
A Connie? It looks more like a flying fish with a Frisbee in its mouth. I have a T6 Advanced Light Cruiser kitbash that looks a lot like it (though it is nowhere near as smooth and rounded as the future ship), I would guess that that picture shows a future ShiKar/Centaur kitbash instead of a Connie. It is one of the few ships in DSC S3 that looks even halfway good so far, though I wish they would stop making everything art deco in every era, Star Trek is supposed to be dynamic not aesthetically frozen in time like Star Wars is.
It's funny how people were indoctrinated here. No one asking for something like 32c episode arc featuring these ships and locations, but already holding their credit cards for new skins
Possibly because the idea of episode arcs like that is not particularly appealing.
Yuck. Ugly ships. I guess Elon Musk designed them? Steel hulls from the looks of it. No obviously not really, but the look is awful. There are virtually no details at all. I'm just sitting here writing this looking at evilmark's Columbia signature and that ship looks so much better because it has actual details on it.
While I appreciate an homage to the actor, why would they name a ship after Nog in the 32nd century?
Weird as it may sound they may not have named it after Nog himself, by that time there have probably been dozens of ships with that name and they may have named it after one of those, maybe even without knowing who Nog was in the first place. It happens in the real world occasionally too.
And I agree that most of those ships are ugly. One point that is both annoying and amusing is that they may actually be using bog standard ordinary titanium hulls according to dialog in DSC s2e1, another degradation of technology compared to TOS and TNG.
On the other hand, Jefferies seems to have modeled tritanium after realworld titanium nitride at least color-wise. The real-world stuff (which is abbreviated TiN) is only usable as a coating but it comes in various shades shades of gold and gold-brown like the TOS deflector dish and choke ring antenna on the front of the secondary hull, along with the bussard needles and inboard grids of the warp nacelles (the latter of which they painted white for the series itself iirc) of The Cage. In Trek it is supposedly the color of the alloy they use itself, not a coating (they use some kind of white ceramic for that according to both Jefferies and Roddenberry). If the coating was stripped off the ships would look a lot like the gold wall decoration in several of the moves.
TNG took the similarity further, some titanium alloys can become green or greenish gray like Klingon (and Romulan) hulls if anodized, and while it has advantages the anodization makes it slightly more susceptible to acid damage, like the space barnacles were doing to the one that Riker was an exchange officer on.
Other than the coloration tritanium is not much like titanium, it is described as dense and heavy with a molecular lattice that is tight and resistant to disintegration, while realworld titanium is relatively light (I don't know enough about how the creeping disintegration is supposed to work to even make a guess on what its theoretical disintegration resistance might be).
True, the powers-to-be in the 32nd century could stop us from traveling back to our original time with their superior time travel tech... which doesn't exist... coz somehow everyone agreed to destroy it... and they couldn't stop Discovery from coming into this era.
Couldn't, or didn't because it was part of the "correct" timeline?
But yeah, if we really wanted to, we could easily go into the far future and come back. Wouldn't even be that hard to justify it. Just have Daniels contact us, make up some excuse about it being some special exception to the Temporal Accords because narrative mcguffin, and then have us not make our true era known while we are in the future.
And I agree that most of those ships are ugly. One point that is both annoying and amusing is that they may actually be using bog standard ordinary titanium hulls according to dialog in DSC s2e1, another degradation of technology compared to TOS and TNG.
Nope. These ships aren't mentioned in S2 at all(they only show up in S3 after all) and its mentioned in the newest episode they are made out of neturonium. At least some of them. Others are mentioned to be made entirely out of holographic containment fields, while others use organic materials(not unlike the Undine ships)
While it is true the ships themselves are not mentioned, the identical-looking hull material in s2e1is mentioned and that is what I was referring to. There is a good chance that Kurtzman never heard of tritanium or misunderstood what he heard and ships in the nu-Trek use titanium instead of tritanium or duranium.
You are right about how STO could handle a DSC s3 arc, but the question is why would they even do it? So far the season has not shown anything particularly interesting setting wise or other hooks that would justify such a thing. Of course that could change with later episodes, but until then there is nothing much they could do with it.
While it is true the ships themselves are not mentioned, the identical-looking hull material in s2e1is mentioned and that is what I was referring to. There is a good chance that Kurtzman never heard of tritanium or misunderstood what he heard and ships in the nu-Trek use titanium instead of tritanium or duranium.
You are right about how STO could handle a DSC s3 arc, but the question is why would they even do it? So far the season has not shown anything particularly interesting setting wise or other hooks that would justify such a thing. Of course that could change with later episodes, but until then there is nothing much they could do with it.
Do you mean Season 3 Episode 1? There are no future ships in S2E1.
As for why would they do it? why not? The burn devastated the Federation, reducing it to 1/10 of its former size, and now we have a whole bunch of new factions like the Emerald Chain flying around making trouble.
STO has already done pretty much everything they could do in the 2409/2410/2411 era. We have been to all four quadrants, and interacted with pretty much every galactic power in Trek canon, and Cryptic themselves have said they really onyl had one more plot arc left for STO before all ofthese new shows started giving them more ideas to work with.
We got Mirror Leeta/Killy, and tying up the Pah Wraith stuff, and then maybe a Zhat Vash/synth story arc for Picard and after that why not go to the future for an arc?
No, I was talking about the Hiawatha in s2e1 which Burnham said had a titanium hull. Since Kurtzman seems to want to use that instead of the already established tritanium and so far DSC seems to be as homogenized era-agnostic as Star Wars (despite the ship zoo tour that made a lot of exclamations about ships we will probably never see in action), I speculated that there was a good possibility that those future ships used the same ordinary real-world material for the hull (and yes, I know from the dialog that some at least one uses holomatter and a few use neutronium fibers). It might even explain why the hulls seem to shatter so easily from even low velocity impacts.
And yes, the so far very contrived and hokey burn devastated the Federation which might make a few players happy but I doubt the majority of players would be interested since they are theoretically here to play Star Trek, not reformulated Andromeda with the ID filed off. And while there could actually be something profound to pull the season out of that dross, the chances are very slim with their track record from previous seasons.
It's funny how people were indoctrinated here. No one asking for something like 32c episode arc featuring these ships and locations, but already holding their credit cards for new skins
Time travel is banned in the 32nd century , so going there for a few missions wouldn't make any sense.
Yeah, it's not like a ship from the past could end up -by accident or not- in the 32nd century where all time travel tech has been banned and destroyed, and be able to operate better thanks to having safe amounts of dilithium.
Discovery is CLEARLY showing that so far.
you would think the future tech would allow more power generation and more range with less. I mean look at todays cars. I have a 1982 Corvette and a 2001. the 2001 has 50% more horsepower and doubles the mileage, in only 19 years worth of technology. you would think that from the 22nd century to the 32nd, they would be able to do the same with 6 carats of dilithium that the 22nd century ships would have used 6 tons
And yes, the so far very contrived and hokey burn devastated the Federation which might make a few players happy but I doubt the majority of players would be interested since they are theoretically here to play Star Trek, not reformulated Andromeda with the ID filed off. And while there could actually be something profound to pull the season out of that dross, the chances are very slim with their track record from previous seasons.
Star Trek is an IP that covers everything from space westerns(TOS) to more legal procedural(TNG), to big war stories(DS9).
There is nothing no singular style of theme that makes up Star Trek. Not to mention this was the planned future for the Federation long before Discovery was a thing.
The "Andromeda is the future of the Federation" myth? Before Roddenberry tried to sell it to Paramount he took the pitch to other studios and networks as a separate show. It was only after that and even Paramount wasn't interested in it as an independent show that he suggested he could adapt it to be a sort of post-holocaust Trek.
To be fair, after having show after show rejected because it was not Star Trek I would not blame him if he did feel like chucking Trek off a waterfall, the facts just don't support that though.
The "Andromeda is the future of the Federation" myth? Before Roddenberry tried to sell it to Paramount he took the pitch to other studios and networks as a separate show. It was only after that and even Paramount wasn't interested in it as an independent show that he suggested he could adapt it to be a sort of post-holocaust Trek.
To be fair, after having show after show rejected because it was not Star Trek I would not blame him if he did feel like chucking Trek off a waterfall, the facts just don't support that though.
I wasn't even talking about Andromeda. I was referring more to Star Trek: Final Frontier, and Star Trek: Federation, concepts, both of which have similar premises to Discovery's third season.
All three ideas(Andromeda, Final Frontier, and Federation), and Discovery S3, are entirely Star Trek. They represent the very fundamentals of Star Trek's philosophy, that even in the darkest of times the ideals of the Federation can make thing better, and bring people back together.
Hell, I've been arguing for years, long before Discovery was even a thing, that the single most logical plotline for star Trek was to take was the "Collapse of the Federation" plotline, due to DS9 resolving all the major political drama in the Alpha and Beta Quadrants, as well as beating the big bad of the Gamma quadrant, and Voyager beating the big bad of the Delta.
"Always planned" would mean right back to the beginning, and the alternate Andromeda pitch was the closest Roddenberry ever got to killing off the Federation. That is significant in light of the fact that by that time Star Trek had turned into just as much of a typecasting, door closing albatross for him that Sherlock Holmes became for Doyle and Tarzan became for Burroughs yet he was still reluctant to kill it off to clear the decks for something new.
If you have ever heard his convention talks you would know that he always intended the Federation as a turning point that lead down a very long path, not some final goal, and that by being curious, adaptive, and outward-looking they outgrew the kind of factionalization that doomed so many others the crew ran across the remains of (like for instance Sargon's people).
The impression he gave was similar to the ending of Babylon5 where it goes long enough for humans to evolve into energy form, like the Organians already did in Trek. And no, it was not supposed to be some boring utopia, things always happen and utopia was a goal many strived for but never reached (though things were supposed to be better than today of course).
Anyway, trying to say that pitches from 2005 and 2006 that CBS showed some interest in but never actually greenlighted qualifies as "always planned" is nonsense of the highest order. That is far from "always planned", especially since both of them were proposed for a Moonves-headed CBS and unless they lived in a cave with their heads in the sand the writers obviously knew his opinion of science fiction and especially Star Trek since he made no secret of it, so the idea of destroying the foundations of Trek in a critical deconstruction to appeal to him was almost certainly involved.
If you want to consider pitches that were never greenlit then Planet of Titans (steaming pile of waste that it was) is just as valid (even more so in fact since Roddenberry was in on it), along with the half dozen or more pitches about a starfleet academy series and all the other junk that ended up in the waste bin over the years.
For that matter, even the current hate-target Axanar has a greater claim to "always planned" since it is based on what was actually Paramount-approved as canon-friendly tie-in material in the 1980s which was in turn based on a passage in the writer's bible that said that the recent history of Star Trek was similar to real world history, since the Four Years War was (very) loosely based on WWII, and the concept a reasonable continuation of loose threads in TOS itself.
In fact, taking that idea that failed pitches determine what was "always planned" all the way to the crazy end then Genisis II would be the "always planned" WWIII aftermath in Star Trek's past since Roddenberry just reworked his original Trek setting history into a new standalone series that seriously downplayed the connection. It even made it as far as an actually filmed pilot movie.
And the original pitch for Frontier was not even the fall of the Federation in the future, it was set in the gap between the movies and TNG as a transient problem were Omega particles cut the Federation in half, made a rat-maze run of space travel, and forced the Federation and Romulans into conflict before that was rejected and they shifted it forward to past the end of Nemesis and made other changes. The only good thing about either of the pitches is that if CBS had taken up Federation then Bad Hat Harry would have undoubtedly done a better job of it than Kurtzman's bunch.
As for the idea that DS9 cleared up all possible conflicts in the Alpha/Beta quadrants, half a galaxy is a hell of a lot bigger than that, and Voyager brought home significant bits of transwarp technology so it is reasonable to think that even if there isn't anyone else out there in that half of the galaxy they would eventually figure out how to build conduits of their own and maybe even figure out the Borg transwarp standalone drive that made the cubes so fast outside of the formal conduits.
It's kind of funny, but I have a strong feeling that if some random trek fan had created these designs and posted them saying they should be in the shows and this game, most people would not like them (including myself). That being the (likely) case, I'm not going to pretend I like them just because they did happen to be in the show anymore than I would have in the aforementioned hypothetical scenario. If I don't like a design, then I don't like it regardless of where I saw it.
To those that do like them I will just say thank you in advance for the money you are going to spend to keep this game going for me to play
They are meant to look radically different because they suggest "FAR AWAY FUTURE" but I also think the designs aren't that great. Way too flat. Aside from lower decks, none of the new shows really hits home in my opinion, the ships all look so... Meh.
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
Apparently physically separated sectors are the fashion in 32nd century, the new Voyager basically composed of 2 triangles is looking like the star fox game spaceship for superness, and the discovery refit ??? for the love of God Cript was much more effort to create a new design for the gleen class, the guys updated only highlighting the nacelles and putting a neon here, another there... just ridiculous
I also think the designs aren't that great. Way too flat. Aside from lower decks, none of the new shows really hits home in my opinion, the ships all look so... Meh.
I think they've just cheapped out (either with money, time, or both) on the models for the ships since they are only in the background. The close up of Voyager is the only new ship that has a reasonable amount of detail and that only showed the saucer section, and the full ship image of it that they released online seems to lack some of that extra detail.
Comments
Yes, we could do that much without lore issues, however we would never be allowed to return to the current STO timeline and Cryptic is very unlikely to leave us in the 32nd century.
A Connie? It looks more like a flying fish with a Frisbee in its mouth. I have a T6 Advanced Light Cruiser kitbash that looks a lot like it (though it is nowhere near as smooth and rounded as the future ship), I would guess that that picture shows a future ShiKar/Centaur kitbash instead of a Connie. It is one of the few ships in DSC S3 that looks even halfway good so far, though I wish they would stop making everything art deco in every era, Star Trek is supposed to be dynamic not aesthetically frozen in time like Star Wars is.
Possibly because the idea of episode arcs like that is not particularly appealing.
Weird as it may sound they may not have named it after Nog himself, by that time there have probably been dozens of ships with that name and they may have named it after one of those, maybe even without knowing who Nog was in the first place. It happens in the real world occasionally too.
And I agree that most of those ships are ugly. One point that is both annoying and amusing is that they may actually be using bog standard ordinary titanium hulls according to dialog in DSC s2e1, another degradation of technology compared to TOS and TNG.
On the other hand, Jefferies seems to have modeled tritanium after realworld titanium nitride at least color-wise. The real-world stuff (which is abbreviated TiN) is only usable as a coating but it comes in various shades shades of gold and gold-brown like the TOS deflector dish and choke ring antenna on the front of the secondary hull, along with the bussard needles and inboard grids of the warp nacelles (the latter of which they painted white for the series itself iirc) of The Cage. In Trek it is supposedly the color of the alloy they use itself, not a coating (they use some kind of white ceramic for that according to both Jefferies and Roddenberry). If the coating was stripped off the ships would look a lot like the gold wall decoration in several of the moves.
TNG took the similarity further, some titanium alloys can become green or greenish gray like Klingon (and Romulan) hulls if anodized, and while it has advantages the anodization makes it slightly more susceptible to acid damage, like the space barnacles were doing to the one that Riker was an exchange officer on.
Other than the coloration tritanium is not much like titanium, it is described as dense and heavy with a molecular lattice that is tight and resistant to disintegration, while realworld titanium is relatively light (I don't know enough about how the creeping disintegration is supposed to work to even make a guess on what its theoretical disintegration resistance might be).
While it is true the ships themselves are not mentioned, the identical-looking hull material in s2e1is mentioned and that is what I was referring to. There is a good chance that Kurtzman never heard of tritanium or misunderstood what he heard and ships in the nu-Trek use titanium instead of tritanium or duranium.
You are right about how STO could handle a DSC s3 arc, but the question is why would they even do it? So far the season has not shown anything particularly interesting setting wise or other hooks that would justify such a thing. Of course that could change with later episodes, but until then there is nothing much they could do with it.
https://trekbbs.com/threads/star-trek-discovery-3x05-die-trying.306216/page-3
👇🏽
No, I was talking about the Hiawatha in s2e1 which Burnham said had a titanium hull. Since Kurtzman seems to want to use that instead of the already established tritanium and so far DSC seems to be as homogenized era-agnostic as Star Wars (despite the ship zoo tour that made a lot of exclamations about ships we will probably never see in action), I speculated that there was a good possibility that those future ships used the same ordinary real-world material for the hull (and yes, I know from the dialog that some at least one uses holomatter and a few use neutronium fibers). It might even explain why the hulls seem to shatter so easily from even low velocity impacts.
And yes, the so far very contrived and hokey burn devastated the Federation which might make a few players happy but I doubt the majority of players would be interested since they are theoretically here to play Star Trek, not reformulated Andromeda with the ID filed off. And while there could actually be something profound to pull the season out of that dross, the chances are very slim with their track record from previous seasons.
you would think the future tech would allow more power generation and more range with less. I mean look at todays cars. I have a 1982 Corvette and a 2001. the 2001 has 50% more horsepower and doubles the mileage, in only 19 years worth of technology. you would think that from the 22nd century to the 32nd, they would be able to do the same with 6 carats of dilithium that the 22nd century ships would have used 6 tons
The "Andromeda is the future of the Federation" myth? Before Roddenberry tried to sell it to Paramount he took the pitch to other studios and networks as a separate show. It was only after that and even Paramount wasn't interested in it as an independent show that he suggested he could adapt it to be a sort of post-holocaust Trek.
To be fair, after having show after show rejected because it was not Star Trek I would not blame him if he did feel like chucking Trek off a waterfall, the facts just don't support that though.
"Always planned" would mean right back to the beginning, and the alternate Andromeda pitch was the closest Roddenberry ever got to killing off the Federation. That is significant in light of the fact that by that time Star Trek had turned into just as much of a typecasting, door closing albatross for him that Sherlock Holmes became for Doyle and Tarzan became for Burroughs yet he was still reluctant to kill it off to clear the decks for something new.
If you have ever heard his convention talks you would know that he always intended the Federation as a turning point that lead down a very long path, not some final goal, and that by being curious, adaptive, and outward-looking they outgrew the kind of factionalization that doomed so many others the crew ran across the remains of (like for instance Sargon's people).
The impression he gave was similar to the ending of Babylon5 where it goes long enough for humans to evolve into energy form, like the Organians already did in Trek. And no, it was not supposed to be some boring utopia, things always happen and utopia was a goal many strived for but never reached (though things were supposed to be better than today of course).
Anyway, trying to say that pitches from 2005 and 2006 that CBS showed some interest in but never actually greenlighted qualifies as "always planned" is nonsense of the highest order. That is far from "always planned", especially since both of them were proposed for a Moonves-headed CBS and unless they lived in a cave with their heads in the sand the writers obviously knew his opinion of science fiction and especially Star Trek since he made no secret of it, so the idea of destroying the foundations of Trek in a critical deconstruction to appeal to him was almost certainly involved.
If you want to consider pitches that were never greenlit then Planet of Titans (steaming pile of waste that it was) is just as valid (even more so in fact since Roddenberry was in on it), along with the half dozen or more pitches about a starfleet academy series and all the other junk that ended up in the waste bin over the years.
For that matter, even the current hate-target Axanar has a greater claim to "always planned" since it is based on what was actually Paramount-approved as canon-friendly tie-in material in the 1980s which was in turn based on a passage in the writer's bible that said that the recent history of Star Trek was similar to real world history, since the Four Years War was (very) loosely based on WWII, and the concept a reasonable continuation of loose threads in TOS itself.
In fact, taking that idea that failed pitches determine what was "always planned" all the way to the crazy end then Genisis II would be the "always planned" WWIII aftermath in Star Trek's past since Roddenberry just reworked his original Trek setting history into a new standalone series that seriously downplayed the connection. It even made it as far as an actually filmed pilot movie.
And the original pitch for Frontier was not even the fall of the Federation in the future, it was set in the gap between the movies and TNG as a transient problem were Omega particles cut the Federation in half, made a rat-maze run of space travel, and forced the Federation and Romulans into conflict before that was rejected and they shifted it forward to past the end of Nemesis and made other changes. The only good thing about either of the pitches is that if CBS had taken up Federation then Bad Hat Harry would have undoubtedly done a better job of it than Kurtzman's bunch.
As for the idea that DS9 cleared up all possible conflicts in the Alpha/Beta quadrants, half a galaxy is a hell of a lot bigger than that, and Voyager brought home significant bits of transwarp technology so it is reasonable to think that even if there isn't anyone else out there in that half of the galaxy they would eventually figure out how to build conduits of their own and maybe even figure out the Borg transwarp standalone drive that made the cubes so fast outside of the formal conduits.
It's kind of funny, but I have a strong feeling that if some random trek fan had created these designs and posted them saying they should be in the shows and this game, most people would not like them (including myself). That being the (likely) case, I'm not going to pretend I like them just because they did happen to be in the show anymore than I would have in the aforementioned hypothetical scenario. If I don't like a design, then I don't like it regardless of where I saw it.
To those that do like them I will just say thank you in advance for the money you are going to spend to keep this game going for me to play
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I think they've just cheapped out (either with money, time, or both) on the models for the ships since they are only in the background. The close up of Voyager is the only new ship that has a reasonable amount of detail and that only showed the saucer section, and the full ship image of it that they released online seems to lack some of that extra detail.