My eyes did not bleed when, in the past, they introduced species and ships that had never appeared on screen (eg tzenkethi... hurq... etc) and they ended up being some nice looking and effective ships.
If Cryptic does anything exceptional, it is ship visual designs - even if many aren't to my liking or feel rushed, many more are just really epic. Same with the polished canon ones, really incredible detail. Those in Disco I mostly dislike, and it's sad to see with the low detail future ones will also be bland or weird.
I'm just glad Rom ships are still something Cryptic is free to use their talents on inventing.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
If Cryptic does anything exceptional, it is ship visual designs - even if many aren't to my liking or feel rushed, many more are just really epic. Same with the polished canon ones, really incredible detail. Those in Disco I mostly dislike, and it's sad to see with the low detail future ones will also be bland or weird.
I'm just glad Rom ships are still something Cryptic is free to use their talents on inventing.
The 25th Century variants of Fed DSC ships aren't too bad. And I do agree they're getting some good Romulan designs out. Although I have heard from a couple people that the Romulan carrier would look better if they flipped her around so that the back was actually the front.
DSC ships got some good looking ships. The DSC KDF BoP though looks more like Romulan or even more, Reman. I mean if you never saw DSC, and cryptic self-invented that specific design and announced it as Reman Bird-of-Prey, wouldnt you be convinces it is?
DSC ships got some good looking ships. The DSC KDF BoP though looks more like Romulan or even more, Reman. I mean if you never saw DSC, and cryptic self-invented that specific design and announced it as Reman Bird-of-Prey, wouldnt you be convinces it is?
Yeah the klingons are probably the worst part of Discovery. Virtually unrecognizable compared to all other iterations of klingons and each of their ships aside from the Sarcophagus look like different alien species made them. The Sarco is the only one that looks kind of like a klingon ship. Some like the Qugh look like someone barfed onto a piece of paper and turned it in as a ship design.
I actually liked to some extent most of their KDF ships but Sarcophagus is my favourite among them and its shape reminds short of vulture if you look it directly above it - which matches the ship of the dead concept. Least nice is the Qugh but its not bad looking either, Its just quite unusual not only as Klingon but as Star Trek ship in general.
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
The Sarco does fit more into the more common "traditional" design style we're familiar with.
I've also noted that in some cases, not using the hull material that belongs to those ships makes them look a bit better. The Qoj actually looks decent in a more traditional Klingon Green hull, and gives some parts some texture.
I kinda view the Qugh as a ceremonial blade, especially if viewed from above. The rear being the hilt and the bow being the blades.
For the most part I try and think like a Klingon when thinking of those ships. And what I tend to get by doing so is... weapons.
And in some instances I also think of how some Samurai helmets had rather demonic looking masks. Its not enough to be a weapon, but its also a psychological weapon too.
Now... between Enterprise and Discovery, Starfleet had apparently little to no contact with the Klingon Empire. Not only that we see at the beginning that the Empire is not unified. To me that kinda helps to explain all the different designs.
Theory Crafting: Its Feudal Japan basically. Everyone's making their own designs, and stealing each other's designs. Jockying for favor among each other and trying to show how big and tough they are. Hence why their ships have taken on a far more elaborate, even aggressive style. Its the equivelent of the Samurai demon mask. Intimidation. Look how dangerous I am! Come at me Bro.
After L'Rell became Chancellor and unified the Empire, she helped to spearhead the development of the D7, which was a simpler design. BUT one that would represent a UNIFIED Klingon Empire. She may have drawn inspiration from older designs to do so, from a time before the Empire was so fractured. From there... well... the rest is history.
There are those who do take it to that extreme. And it drives me up a wall when those arguments come out as if its Word of God truth, and anything that doesn't follow that percieved Truth is Blasphemy and must be burned.
Could I have worded it better? Perhaps. But the intent was never to attack anyone like I'm being accused of. I was trying to point out one of the common arguments used against DSC.
Also as I usually used " " around them I had hoped people would recognize that I was not using it as my own opinion, but a statement of "this is what most of them boil down to". Again, probably could have worded it better.
The thing we can probably both agree on is that those arguments are rediculus.
What is ridiculous? The idea that the visuals are bad? There are plenty of good reasons to dislike them, even saying it looks like a wild departure from TOS. Afterall why couldn't they have done a TOS visual style in ST:D? Why change it? You could equally say that the argument to change the style is a ridiculous argument.
When making TMP did Gene and CO just make it look like TOS? Hell no, they tossed all of TOS's art style, and design, right out the window. Why? Because they had the money for it, and because it was never important. The way TOS looked was due to budget, not some grand design on THIS is how things should look in this era/the future.
Any future Trek shows SHOULD ignore the visual designings of TOS, in order to create a more accurate representation of what the future would look like.
There is no such thing as an accurate representation of what the future would look like. That is logical nonsense.
Now, why not is simple. It is established canon. Now, to ST:D's credit, they did essentially maintain internal consistency, as I understand they went through several ships, before the Discoprise, and they all look similar enough from what few shots I've seen of the bridges, so its basically a visual reboot. A bad one, but it was consistent.
Still, why not work with established canon? What is the reason not to? You can update the screens and the controls and still keep the overall aesthetic. Consider the posted screenshots of the Discoprise bridge. Why is the floor shiny? Why not use the same grey carpet from TOS? Why have the wall/console panels in that shiny material instead of a matte finish?
Honestly, the closer I look at that picture, the more I wonder how much better it would look if they didn't have that insane shine and bad, bright lighting on everything. The few design changes aren't actually that big, but the shine and lighting totally overrides everything.
Still, my personal stance on that is I don't care if they do try to update things, but they clearly made awful choices.
When making TMP did Gene and CO just make it look like TOS? Hell no, they tossed all of TOS's art style, and design, right out the window. Why? Because they had the money for it, and because it was never important. The way TOS looked was due to budget, not some grand design on THIS is how things should look in this era/the future.
Any future Trek shows SHOULD ignore the visual designings of TOS, in order to create a more accurate representation of what the future would look like.
Well that one's pretty simple...because there is no reason to change it. There is an established look for it, we *know* that it looks like this. Yes you can very easily make some small changes updating screens and effects to match modern special effects, but the rest of it doesn't need to be changed other than "we can". There is in fact a very very good explanation for why the Enterprise (well all the Constitution class really) have the older style of controls that I mentioned earlier.
Mind you - this says nothing about the Discovery - it should have every flashy gadget and screen available because that fits perfectly with the canon as a science ship that isn't constitution class.
I'm not saying anyone is wrong for enjoying the new look, I just think that to me they could have done it without making all the changes that they did just because they could.
There are those who do take it to that extreme. And it drives me up a wall when those arguments come out as if its Word of God truth, and anything that doesn't follow that percieved Truth is Blasphemy and must be burned.
Could I have worded it better? Perhaps. But the intent was never to attack anyone like I'm being accused of. I was trying to point out one of the common arguments used against DSC.
Also as I usually used " " around them I had hoped people would recognize that I was not using it as my own opinion, but a statement of "this is what most of them boil down to". Again, probably could have worded it better.
The thing we can probably both agree on is that those arguments are rediculus.
I would say that perhaps the arguments themselves aren't ridiculous, but yes when they're taken to extremes they are.
For example - I don't think the bridge of the Enterprise had to be "exactly" the same...but then again there was no need to change it beyond updating the screens...there is an very good reason for the controls to be the way they are and with a few minor adjustments here and there and new materials it would have looked amazing and could have been a fantastic moment to bridge TOS and Discovery visual looks with one conversation. Instead they just made everything look over the top different.
Surely you would admit that the Klingons were a bit too much off the beaten track there? The extended finger claw things, the mouth prothesis, the extra nostrils/head holes etc. Overall it just seemed to *ME* that the Klingons were by far the weakest part of the new show...that and the magic mushroom drive...outside of those there wasn't too much in the show that I would say was offensive to old TOS sensibilities. As I said, new tech has a place in the TOS fleet outside of the Constitution class.
The outrageous made up arguments that tend to go both ways though do nothing but hurt the arguments. If people would just not go to those extremes and accept that others can have other opinions we could actually all discuss our opinions on the shows sensibly.
If I had to guess... because it doesn't look anything like TOS.
"To fit into the time period, it MUST, WITHOUT QUESTION, look like TOS".
I have never understood this mindset myself.
The idea of visual literalism in fiction(scifi or fantasy), the idea that what we see on screen should ever be taken as anything but an abstraction of what it actually looks like, seems like nothing more then a bad straw man.
So long as you can tell what the thing is, it really shouldn't matter what it looks like. The only exception to this is in the case where there is an explicitly mentioned on screen reason for something to look that way(like if it was mentioned that the Klingon symbols three points reference X,Y, and Z)
Beyond that, if you can ask yourself the question of "If Star Trek began 50 years later then when it actually did, and the stories, characters, and episodes were otherwise the same, would X, Y, or Z, still look like it did when that episode was made however long ago?" If the answer is no then it doesn't matter.
Hell, back when they made TMP they threw out all the design of TOS because they had the money too. TMP doesn't really look like a natural evolution of TOS, and TNG doesn't really either. TOS has always stood out visually for not looking like anything else. Why is it an issue now?
Citing "visual literalism" is rather ironic considering it is mainly the ones who hate TOS who seem to have the difficulty in understanding that the props only represent the look and function of whatever they are supposed to be and that all the props do not have to be functional touchscreens that would be more at home in a real-world twenty-first century office. There is nothing wrong with using the jewel buttons to represent haptic, multi-vector sensitive control "buttons", or the use of standard metal equipment cases for the portable computerized analysis/biosynthesizer unit and whatnot.
And just knowing what something represents is ok, but incomplete. Star Trek has a very definitive fictional history with well established and different general esthetics for each era. In fact, on a show where time travel is so common the audience should not only know what a prop or set represents, they should also know WHEN it represents (and for that matter WHO made it if it is from an already established and known faction). The DSC production team apparently does not understand that concept and just make everything an unimaginative mash of the the same look no matter where in the fictional timeline it is.
As for the question of what it would look like it was started today, that is more complex.
Sadly, if Star Trek TOS did not start fifty years ago and was first pitched today it would never get the greenlight, it was too upbeat to appeal to the more jaded and cynical network brass of today. In fact DSC would have had an even worse chance to ever have been made since Moonves, who hates science fiction and calls it useless claptrap, only greenlighted it to use the popularity of the name as a way to pump up CBSAA, which would not happen with a brand new show. Most likely it would have only had a chance to be picked up by Fox or Syfy which pretty much guarantees one season and done no matter how good or bad it is.
Of course that assumes that there even would be much if any in the way of interstellar science fiction on TV since so many of the key shows over the years have had their inspiration from (and many of the roadblocks removed by) Star Trek in the first place. In that alternate 'today' TV Sci-fi could even, at worst, still be relegated to low budget kids shows like the old Flash Gordon serials with a few slightly higher aimed shows like a "modernized" Lost in Space (yes, I know there actually is one) sprinkled in few and far between.
On the other hand, if the hypothetical situation was changed so that today's technology and production values existed back when Star Trek was being developed (and assuming the kludges like phasers and transporters somehow were still put in) it is easy to imagine from the sketches, notes, memos, and interviews/anecdotes from the people involved. There is also the matter of budget, but assuming something between the scrimping of TOS (the sets were built on spec at Desilu's cost though they got a bit of a makeover on NBC's dime between pilots).
The outside of the ship probably would not have changed much, if any. The requirements were for no fins, exhaust flames, or other silly Flash Gordon nonsense, and that it be practical looking and futuristic almost to the point of seeming alien, and the design fulfilled those requirements admirably. In fact, the much maligned neck and struts contribute a lot to that nearly alien look since they are done with golden ratio angles and proportions which people recognize subconsciously as natural and therefor "wrong" for machines.
Of course it would be higher res, the outer hull would probably have had the pearlescent shimmer that Roddenberry liked so much but the lighting crews hated in TMP. but there would not be a lot of extraneous details since they were going for a smooth organic minimalism. And there would not have been any windows as such, the only reason they put in the window-like lights is that people who saw early shots kept asking how big the ship was and someone twigged on the idea of using rows of lights reminiscent of real-world cruise liners to imply the size.
The bridge would have been a lot rounder, the original design was not octagonal, it was an oblate spheroid with few actual flat surfaces except the floor grids and parts of the control panels, but Desilu only had straight lumber, glass, and other regular building materials on hand). The chairs would have a more organic look, have powered turn functionality and extrude from the deck (via CGI) as needed, not office chairs with inverted "gold tee" bases to look like they were attached. The walls would probably be powedercoat metal like in DSC but with a more practical pearlescent luster finish instead of the glaring shininess of DSC.
The control stations would have had something like small LCARS built into the surface (they actually had those but could not light them since it turned out the transparencies burned in 30 seconds or less from the hot lights it took to illuminate them) along with the jewel 'buttons' and a few ordinary push and toggle buttons. In fact, the jewel buttons would probably be transparent clickable trackballs set into the surface since that is actually closer to what they represented than the pushbutton arrays the DSC Enterprise has in their stead.
Also, with CGI making 'holographic' controls visible they would have used gesture controls to some degree (they tried it back then but without a visual reference for the viewers it just looked silly so they loaded on more jewel buttons instead) which was something Roddenberry was fascinated with.
The bridge would have had the ceiling from TMP too, they took that more or less directly from the original bridge design from before they decided not to try and hang a celling on wires for the few potential shots where the angle would show it.
One major difference between the hypothetical modern production tech TOS bridge and the DSC one is the size, Jefferies was a real engineer who was quite familiar with the needs of a military ship bridge and the practical considerations of standing watch so he deliberately kept it compact so people did not have to shout to be heard (in fact he placed the captain at the focal point of the original oblate spheroid, there is an empty spot in the US Senate chamber where it was found one of the seats was at the focal point of the dome and the person there could eavesdrop on other senators), had chairs at all stations because standing positions are simply not practical (even back then studies showed people standing watch on their feet are more distracted and likely to miss things, and when the ship lurched would be even more distracted trying to keep from being thrown around), and positioned all the controls within easy reach.
Also, CGI and computer controlled cameras would have made it easier to see that the viewscreens were supposed to be behind-the-plane holographic displays that showed depth and parallax instead of being simple flat images. And the main viewscreen would have probably been floor to ceiling with multiple inset "windows" like the overhead screens in The Cage.
The DSC Enterprise bridge is not horrible (it looks nice actually), though it is too spread out to be efficient and has way too much glare for people to sit watch for long without eyestrain.
And no, in TMP they did not throw out the designs of TOS, originally they were going to use the Phase II ship model but one of the movie division execs (and not Roddenberry or Jefferies) told the modelmaker to get rid of the old saucer and put something on that matched the new secondary hull for the final shooting model. The Phase II ship is actually in the movie in the background so the TOS saucer section (and by implication the entire TOS style Constitution class) exists in the movieverse as well. They just advanced into the next period's esthetics with their newly constructed (and reconstructed) ships.
In fact, all of the Berman Treks that showed anything from TOS confirmed that it looked the way it did in TOS.
Post edited by phoenixc#0738 on
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rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,577Community Moderator
For example - I don't think the bridge of the Enterprise had to be "exactly" the same...but then again there was no need to change it beyond updating the screens...there is an very good reason for the controls to be the way they are and with a few minor adjustments here and there and new materials it would have looked amazing and could have been a fantastic moment to bridge TOS and Discovery visual looks with one conversation. Instead they just made everything look over the top different.
However unlike the Kelvin Connie, they kept not only the layout the same as in TOS, they even brought in the orange rails and main console. While that particular console is bigger, more like the TMP era, its still got that orange we saw in TOS. It almost feels like they could shrink the overall size down towards the outer consoles and it would be appox. the size of the TOS bridge. So an easy potential refit into TOS.
Surely you would admit that the Klingons were a bit too much off the beaten track there? The extended finger claw things, the mouth prothesis, the extra nostrils/head holes etc. Overall it just seemed to *ME* that the Klingons were by far the weakest part of the new show
I admit at first the Klingons just didn't look right. However they did make an effort to change that in season 2. If you look at L'Rell, the change is rather dramatic. Smoothing out her features and giving her hair made her look a lot more like a TNG style Klingon, which actually looks pretty good. And there was a background Klingon at the end of season 2 who looked like he was wearing an armored version of the TOS uniform, at least in color scheme.
...that and the magic mushroom drive
How is the Spore Drive any different from Genesis? I mean a magic torpedo that could terraform a planet instantly? And we never heard of that again after ST3. *shrug* Spore Drive is honestly no different than any of the other technologies Starfleet experimented with over the years.
For example - I don't think the bridge of the Enterprise had to be "exactly" the same...but then again there was no need to change it beyond updating the screens...there is an very good reason for the controls to be the way they are and with a few minor adjustments here and there and new materials it would have looked amazing and could have been a fantastic moment to bridge TOS and Discovery visual looks with one conversation. Instead they just made everything look over the top different.
However unlike the Kelvin Connie, they kept not only the layout the same as in TOS, they even brought in the orange rails and main console. While that particular console is bigger, more like the TMP era, its still got that orange we saw in TOS. It almost feels like they could shrink the overall size down towards the outer consoles and it would be appox. the size of the TOS bridge. So an easy potential refit into TOS.
Surely you would admit that the Klingons were a bit too much off the beaten track there? The extended finger claw things, the mouth prothesis, the extra nostrils/head holes etc. Overall it just seemed to *ME* that the Klingons were by far the weakest part of the new show
I admit at first the Klingons just didn't look right. However they did make an effort to change that in season 2. If you look at L'Rell, the change is rather dramatic. Smoothing out her features and giving her hair made her look a lot more like a TNG style Klingon, which actually looks pretty good. And there was a background Klingon at the end of season 2 who looked like he was wearing an armored version of the TOS uniform, at least in color scheme.
...that and the magic mushroom drive
How is the Spore Drive any different from Genesis? I mean a magic torpedo that could terraform a planet instantly? And we never heard of that again after ST3. *shrug* Spore Drive is honestly no different than any of the other technologies Starfleet experimented with over the years.
For the Enterprise - I think that if they had just gone with the original sizing and concepts it would have worked better for me...there wasn't really a need to make it so much bigger and shinier and it was a sadly missed opportunity to bridge the shows.
I did notice that in season 2 they started to correct the Klingons a bit - though didn't they still have those weird finger/claw extensions or did they cut down on those as well? Glad they started to come around on those...I think if they had tried to keep them a little closer from the beginning it would have cut down on a LOT of the initial anger over the show...sometimes it's all the little things.
I was always a bit of a *meh* on the genesis device. The idea that it could destroy existing matter to rebuild it - okay - but the rapid life growth afterwards seemed too much, especially on worlds that didn't have any life...a lifeless moon you could rebuild the materials etc. into more nutrient right life sustaining materials...well okay, but growing life there would be totally different. And Dr. Marcus in the original presentation did say it would be a life supporting matrix capable of sustaining whatever life they chose to put there...I always thought it was originally meant to be that they would have to plant life there afterwards in order for it to grow and that just kind of got taken over somewhere.
BUT - the idea of traveling the galaxy instantaneously (or nearly so) by traveling the roots of a magic mushroom spore that is everywhere in the galaxy at the same time. Yeah I'm sorry that's just way too out there. Maybe it they'd come up with something different, post nemesis in the form of some kind of transwarp or space fold or anything different I think it would have sat better with me. It felt like they were pushing the idea of nature is good - harming nature kills us all etc. with the spore thing. Maybe it's just me (though it does seem a sticking point for others as well). There are so many advanced travel ideas explored in the shows, the spore thing just felt so...silly? I don't know how to describe it to you. My background is very heavy physics/engineer based so maybe I just have more difficulty with it being galactic plant based?
I'm sure you understand what I mean though...sometimes there are ideas and concepts that just rub you the wrong way.
I see it as a mixed bag, I think DSC has best visual overall(not everything but overall) which is normal considering how old most star trek episodes and movies are and while I do like its story content, it isnt my best. That said, it doesnt have to be the best to be good. Oh and added one of my favourite ships, the Sarcophagus. While I guess there are people that legitimately dislike it, I think most people exaggerate cause its just not their favourite, but again, something can be Good and not be a favourite.
By the way I am getting curious if Klingons and Romulans do exist as seperate entities in 31st/32nd centuries, on what condition and what ships they got if so. On STO weirdly, in the temporal episodes where the treaty for not using time travel is signed, the Fed representative is a klingon and we dont see a separate klingon ambassador that represents the empire. That always made me wonder if Cryptics plan was to just unite Federation and Empire.(I am not sure if I would like that idea)
Klingons were supposed to be part of the Federation in TNG, I'm glad they didn't go that route because it would have taken away Worf's uniqueness.
Somebody on the ST: D VFX team put an Easter Egg in that shot as one of the supposed Federation ships looks like the 'Space Jellyfish Creature" 'ship' from TNG's pilot episode "Encounter at Farpoint" before it transformed into it's more Jellyfish like state (It's the 'saucer-like' ship on the second row, right side) :
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Somebody on the ST: D VFX team put an Easter Egg in that shot as one of the supposed Federation ships looks like the 'Space Jellyfish Creature" 'ship' from TNG's pilot episode "Encounter at Farpoint" before it transformed into it's more Jellyfish like state (It's the 'saucer-like' ship on the second row, right side) :
It could also be an easter egg from V, except for the sunk in ring at the top were it is just a material change in V it is pretty much the same saucer design.
For example - I don't think the bridge of the Enterprise had to be "exactly" the same...but then again there was no need to change it beyond updating the screens...there is an very good reason for the controls to be the way they are and with a few minor adjustments here and there and new materials it would have looked amazing and could have been a fantastic moment to bridge TOS and Discovery visual looks with one conversation. Instead they just made everything look over the top different.
However unlike the Kelvin Connie, they kept not only the layout the same as in TOS, they even brought in the orange rails and main console. While that particular console is bigger, more like the TMP era, its still got that orange we saw in TOS. It almost feels like they could shrink the overall size down towards the outer consoles and it would be appox. the size of the TOS bridge. So an easy potential refit into TOS.
Surely you would admit that the Klingons were a bit too much off the beaten track there? The extended finger claw things, the mouth prothesis, the extra nostrils/head holes etc. Overall it just seemed to *ME* that the Klingons were by far the weakest part of the new show
I admit at first the Klingons just didn't look right. However they did make an effort to change that in season 2. If you look at L'Rell, the change is rather dramatic. Smoothing out her features and giving her hair made her look a lot more like a TNG style Klingon, which actually looks pretty good. And there was a background Klingon at the end of season 2 who looked like he was wearing an armored version of the TOS uniform, at least in color scheme.
...that and the magic mushroom drive
How is the Spore Drive any different from Genesis? I mean a magic torpedo that could terraform a planet instantly? And we never heard of that again after ST3. *shrug* Spore Drive is honestly no different than any of the other technologies Starfleet experimented with over the years.
For the Enterprise - I think that if they had just gone with the original sizing and concepts it would have worked better for me...there wasn't really a need to make it so much bigger and shinier and it was a sadly missed opportunity to bridge the shows.
I did notice that in season 2 they started to correct the Klingons a bit - though didn't they still have those weird finger/claw extensions or did they cut down on those as well? Glad they started to come around on those...I think if they had tried to keep them a little closer from the beginning it would have cut down on a LOT of the initial anger over the show...sometimes it's all the little things.
I was always a bit of a *meh* on the genesis device. The idea that it could destroy existing matter to rebuild it - okay - but the rapid life growth afterwards seemed too much, especially on worlds that didn't have any life...a lifeless moon you could rebuild the materials etc. into more nutrient right life sustaining materials...well okay, but growing life there would be totally different. And Dr. Marcus in the original presentation did say it would be a life supporting matrix capable of sustaining whatever life they chose to put there...I always thought it was originally meant to be that they would have to plant life there afterwards in order for it to grow and that just kind of got taken over somewhere.
BUT - the idea of traveling the galaxy instantaneously (or nearly so) by traveling the roots of a magic mushroom spore that is everywhere in the galaxy at the same time. Yeah I'm sorry that's just way too out there. Maybe it they'd come up with something different, post nemesis in the form of some kind of transwarp or space fold or anything different I think it would have sat better with me. It felt like they were pushing the idea of nature is good - harming nature kills us all etc. with the spore thing. Maybe it's just me (though it does seem a sticking point for others as well). There are so many advanced travel ideas explored in the shows, the spore thing just felt so...silly? I don't know how to describe it to you. My background is very heavy physics/engineer based so maybe I just have more difficulty with it being galactic plant based?
I'm sure you understand what I mean though...sometimes there are ideas and concepts that just rub you the wrong way.
At first I thought the mushroom drive was stupid, but the scene were they showed the network from Stammet's point of view looks suspiciously like the superstring network in Andromeda except that instead of skating along the outside of the string using quantum "runners" they were inside it.
It is possible that sometime billions of years ago some spores came in contact with the superstring 'layer' of the universe (maybe the borders were thinner and things sometimes passed though back then) and colonized the strings. The regular universe spores might just be a stepping stone to the ones in the superstrings, perhaps because of a quantum effect of part of it being in the strings. The speed and limitations of the spore drive are quite similar to those of the slipstream drive from Andromeda so it does make a certain amount of sense.
Well, superstring theory refers to the idea of using the vibrations of tiny supersymmetric strings that make up all matter below a quantum level. It's the idea that they use to try to unify physics and explain gravity. Strings actually exist below the level of quarks in the same way quarks are below the level of neutrons/electrons/protons. (my degrees are in Experimental and Theoretical physics...but my strong suit is experimental - my theoretical is relatively poo because I'm terrible with the math at that level).
For me - I think if instead of claiming it's mushrooms if they had said they had tapped into some quantum transwarp network...or really any of the more outside FTL travel ideas that ST has touched on I would have been happier about it.
Well, superstring theory refers to the idea of using the vibrations of tiny supersymmetric strings that make up all matter below a quantum level. It's the idea that they use to try to unify physics and explain gravity. Strings actually exist below the level of quarks in the same way quarks are below the level of neutrons/electrons/protons. (my degrees are in Experimental and Theoretical physics...but my strong suit is experimental - my theoretical is relatively poo because I'm terrible with the math at that level).
For me - I think if instead of claiming it's mushrooms if they had said they had tapped into some quantum transwarp network...or really any of the more outside FTL travel ideas that ST has touched on I would have been happier about it.
I would have been happier if it was more sensible too, but I suppose its not too bad if they are actually dealing with the superstrings but Stammets can only think of it via the fungus since that is his field (the old saw about if you use hammers everything starts looking like a nail).
Some good classic sci-fi does that kind of thing, like in Skylark of Space the main character is mostly a molecular chemist but accidentally discovers a sort of quantum energy catalyst which sets things in motion to take them into space using the chance discovery. There was another, more recent one, where the main characters thought they invented an FTL drive but it turns out it wasn't, it just went exactly the speed of light while they were suspended as a complex waveform during the trip but the math was fuzzy enough that when the probes in short range tests always took a while to find when they did not arrive at the target location they thought it was a navigational theory problem instead.
If the DSC writers are clever enough they could reveal that it actually is something like the infested superstrings, which many of the core fans with their more scientific mindset could accept, but I don't think they are clever enough to be able to pull it off.
> @somtaawkhar said: > (Quote) > Except we know from canon that smaller vessels like scorpion fighters use matter/antimatter drives because they aren't large enough to contain a singularity. Which means, yes, they do use it on some vessels. > > Likewise, the only ship ever stated to use a singularity was the D'Deridex, which it was only capable of doing because of its size. There is no reason to assume any Romulan ship smaller then the D'Deridex(aka all of them) could use the singularity. And we have in-universe mentions of them using traditional matter/antimatter drives(which require dilthium) on smaller vessels. > > We also have no idea how the energy is pulled from the singularity into the ship's power systems, so we have nothing to suggest dilthium isn't used in that either.
True, but the ships in Picard are large enough to use a singularity (of course is speculation at this point), but Romulan aproach to tech is kinda "we use what other races don't"..
There are those who do take it to that extreme. And it drives me up a wall when those arguments come out as if its Word of God truth, and anything that doesn't follow that percieved Truth is Blasphemy and must be burned.
Could I have worded it better? Perhaps. But the intent was never to attack anyone like I'm being accused of. I was trying to point out one of the common arguments used against DSC.
Also as I usually used " " around them I had hoped people would recognize that I was not using it as my own opinion, but a statement of "this is what most of them boil down to". Again, probably could have worded it better.
The thing we can probably both agree on is that those arguments are rediculus.
What is ridiculous? The idea that the visuals are bad? There are plenty of good reasons to dislike them, even saying it looks like a wild departure from TOS. Afterall why couldn't they have done a TOS visual style in ST:D? Why change it? You could equally say that the argument to change the style is a ridiculous argument.
Kurtzman and company wanna change it for the SAKE of changing it.....they wanna make it like Star Wars.
Hence why Lower Decks I find superior...it RESPECT TOS, first time since 2005, TOS was presented as it is.
When making TMP did Gene and CO just make it look like TOS? Hell no, they tossed all of TOS's art style, and design, right out the window. Why? Because they had the money for it, and because it was never important. The way TOS looked was due to budget, not some grand design on THIS is how things should look in this era/the future.
Any future Trek shows SHOULD ignore the visual designings of TOS, in order to create a more accurate representation of what the future would look like.
No, KEEP TOS. This might shock you, but there are many TOS fans and fans of the TOS style.....try to disgust that revelation, if you will.
And, unless you are Nostradamus, you don't know TRIBBLE about how a future will look like. One thing I can tell you...it will look sleek and simple...like TOS.
*holds up her friend's monden phone* ONE BUTTON....sleek. Now look at a cell from the 1980's....bulky and lots of kibble and details.
Tos seems to be the most likely style one shall see. Same with Orville.
You want kibble, lots of details and grundge? Ya got Star Wars, Aliens, Red Dwarf and Doctor Who.
I kinda found it ironic those ships were introduced... only to get blown up a few seconds later, so simultaneously and with the near exact type of explosion it was accidentally almost comical in a "haha new future ships go boom" way.
Doesn't help it happens during a monologue and just after it's mentioned "dilithium supplies dried up" about a century before the Burn. Even if they couldn't find alternatives to the current warp core system, you'd think they at least tried to add new failsafe systems to the cores in case they ran out of dilithium or worse, considering the worsening shortage.
> @ucgsquawk#5883 said: > Well, superstring theory refers to the idea of using the vibrations of tiny supersymmetric strings that make up all matter below a quantum level. It's the idea that they use to try to unify physics and explain gravity. Strings actually exist below the level of quarks in the same way quarks are below the level of neutrons/electrons/protons. (my degrees are in Experimental and Theoretical physics...but my strong suit is experimental - my theoretical is relatively poo because I'm terrible with the math at that level). > > For me - I think if instead of claiming it's mushrooms if they had said they had tapped into some quantum transwarp network...or really any of the more outside FTL travel ideas that ST has touched on I would have been happier about it.
Perhaps the Mycelia is the medium to access it.. until they find an artificial compound/tech.. i don't see why not.. ot could be a very cool explanation!
Having finally watched the episode, I have to wonder - would these hypothetical ships have a built-in function, similar to the cloaking ability of some Intel ships, which causes them to just randomly explode for no adequately explained reason?
> @jonsills said: > Having finally watched the episode, I have to wonder - would these hypothetical ships have a built-in function, similar to the cloaking ability of some Intel ships, which causes them to just randomly explode for no adequately explained reason?
The explanation is the Burn, that we still don't know how or why it happened.. Q perhaps?
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
Comments
If Cryptic does anything exceptional, it is ship visual designs - even if many aren't to my liking or feel rushed, many more are just really epic. Same with the polished canon ones, really incredible detail. Those in Disco I mostly dislike, and it's sad to see with the low detail future ones will also be bland or weird.
I'm just glad Rom ships are still something Cryptic is free to use their talents on inventing.
The 25th Century variants of Fed DSC ships aren't too bad. And I do agree they're getting some good Romulan designs out. Although I have heard from a couple people that the Romulan carrier would look better if they flipped her around so that the back was actually the front.
Yeah the klingons are probably the worst part of Discovery. Virtually unrecognizable compared to all other iterations of klingons and each of their ships aside from the Sarcophagus look like different alien species made them. The Sarco is the only one that looks kind of like a klingon ship. Some like the Qugh look like someone barfed onto a piece of paper and turned it in as a ship design.
I've also noted that in some cases, not using the hull material that belongs to those ships makes them look a bit better. The Qoj actually looks decent in a more traditional Klingon Green hull, and gives some parts some texture.
I kinda view the Qugh as a ceremonial blade, especially if viewed from above. The rear being the hilt and the bow being the blades.
For the most part I try and think like a Klingon when thinking of those ships. And what I tend to get by doing so is... weapons.
And in some instances I also think of how some Samurai helmets had rather demonic looking masks. Its not enough to be a weapon, but its also a psychological weapon too.
Now... between Enterprise and Discovery, Starfleet had apparently little to no contact with the Klingon Empire. Not only that we see at the beginning that the Empire is not unified. To me that kinda helps to explain all the different designs.
Theory Crafting: Its Feudal Japan basically. Everyone's making their own designs, and stealing each other's designs. Jockying for favor among each other and trying to show how big and tough they are. Hence why their ships have taken on a far more elaborate, even aggressive style. Its the equivelent of the Samurai demon mask. Intimidation. Look how dangerous I am! Come at me Bro.
After L'Rell became Chancellor and unified the Empire, she helped to spearhead the development of the D7, which was a simpler design. BUT one that would represent a UNIFIED Klingon Empire. She may have drawn inspiration from older designs to do so, from a time before the Empire was so fractured. From there... well... the rest is history.
What is ridiculous? The idea that the visuals are bad? There are plenty of good reasons to dislike them, even saying it looks like a wild departure from TOS. Afterall why couldn't they have done a TOS visual style in ST:D? Why change it? You could equally say that the argument to change the style is a ridiculous argument.
There is no such thing as an accurate representation of what the future would look like. That is logical nonsense.
Now, why not is simple. It is established canon. Now, to ST:D's credit, they did essentially maintain internal consistency, as I understand they went through several ships, before the Discoprise, and they all look similar enough from what few shots I've seen of the bridges, so its basically a visual reboot. A bad one, but it was consistent.
Still, why not work with established canon? What is the reason not to? You can update the screens and the controls and still keep the overall aesthetic. Consider the posted screenshots of the Discoprise bridge. Why is the floor shiny? Why not use the same grey carpet from TOS? Why have the wall/console panels in that shiny material instead of a matte finish?
Honestly, the closer I look at that picture, the more I wonder how much better it would look if they didn't have that insane shine and bad, bright lighting on everything. The few design changes aren't actually that big, but the shine and lighting totally overrides everything.
Still, my personal stance on that is I don't care if they do try to update things, but they clearly made awful choices.
Well that one's pretty simple...because there is no reason to change it. There is an established look for it, we *know* that it looks like this. Yes you can very easily make some small changes updating screens and effects to match modern special effects, but the rest of it doesn't need to be changed other than "we can". There is in fact a very very good explanation for why the Enterprise (well all the Constitution class really) have the older style of controls that I mentioned earlier.
Mind you - this says nothing about the Discovery - it should have every flashy gadget and screen available because that fits perfectly with the canon as a science ship that isn't constitution class.
I'm not saying anyone is wrong for enjoying the new look, I just think that to me they could have done it without making all the changes that they did just because they could.
I would say that perhaps the arguments themselves aren't ridiculous, but yes when they're taken to extremes they are.
For example - I don't think the bridge of the Enterprise had to be "exactly" the same...but then again there was no need to change it beyond updating the screens...there is an very good reason for the controls to be the way they are and with a few minor adjustments here and there and new materials it would have looked amazing and could have been a fantastic moment to bridge TOS and Discovery visual looks with one conversation. Instead they just made everything look over the top different.
Surely you would admit that the Klingons were a bit too much off the beaten track there? The extended finger claw things, the mouth prothesis, the extra nostrils/head holes etc. Overall it just seemed to *ME* that the Klingons were by far the weakest part of the new show...that and the magic mushroom drive...outside of those there wasn't too much in the show that I would say was offensive to old TOS sensibilities. As I said, new tech has a place in the TOS fleet outside of the Constitution class.
The outrageous made up arguments that tend to go both ways though do nothing but hurt the arguments. If people would just not go to those extremes and accept that others can have other opinions we could actually all discuss our opinions on the shows sensibly.
Citing "visual literalism" is rather ironic considering it is mainly the ones who hate TOS who seem to have the difficulty in understanding that the props only represent the look and function of whatever they are supposed to be and that all the props do not have to be functional touchscreens that would be more at home in a real-world twenty-first century office. There is nothing wrong with using the jewel buttons to represent haptic, multi-vector sensitive control "buttons", or the use of standard metal equipment cases for the portable computerized analysis/biosynthesizer unit and whatnot.
And just knowing what something represents is ok, but incomplete. Star Trek has a very definitive fictional history with well established and different general esthetics for each era. In fact, on a show where time travel is so common the audience should not only know what a prop or set represents, they should also know WHEN it represents (and for that matter WHO made it if it is from an already established and known faction). The DSC production team apparently does not understand that concept and just make everything an unimaginative mash of the the same look no matter where in the fictional timeline it is.
As for the question of what it would look like it was started today, that is more complex.
Sadly, if Star Trek TOS did not start fifty years ago and was first pitched today it would never get the greenlight, it was too upbeat to appeal to the more jaded and cynical network brass of today. In fact DSC would have had an even worse chance to ever have been made since Moonves, who hates science fiction and calls it useless claptrap, only greenlighted it to use the popularity of the name as a way to pump up CBSAA, which would not happen with a brand new show. Most likely it would have only had a chance to be picked up by Fox or Syfy which pretty much guarantees one season and done no matter how good or bad it is.
Of course that assumes that there even would be much if any in the way of interstellar science fiction on TV since so many of the key shows over the years have had their inspiration from (and many of the roadblocks removed by) Star Trek in the first place. In that alternate 'today' TV Sci-fi could even, at worst, still be relegated to low budget kids shows like the old Flash Gordon serials with a few slightly higher aimed shows like a "modernized" Lost in Space (yes, I know there actually is one) sprinkled in few and far between.
On the other hand, if the hypothetical situation was changed so that today's technology and production values existed back when Star Trek was being developed (and assuming the kludges like phasers and transporters somehow were still put in) it is easy to imagine from the sketches, notes, memos, and interviews/anecdotes from the people involved. There is also the matter of budget, but assuming something between the scrimping of TOS (the sets were built on spec at Desilu's cost though they got a bit of a makeover on NBC's dime between pilots).
The outside of the ship probably would not have changed much, if any. The requirements were for no fins, exhaust flames, or other silly Flash Gordon nonsense, and that it be practical looking and futuristic almost to the point of seeming alien, and the design fulfilled those requirements admirably. In fact, the much maligned neck and struts contribute a lot to that nearly alien look since they are done with golden ratio angles and proportions which people recognize subconsciously as natural and therefor "wrong" for machines.
Of course it would be higher res, the outer hull would probably have had the pearlescent shimmer that Roddenberry liked so much but the lighting crews hated in TMP. but there would not be a lot of extraneous details since they were going for a smooth organic minimalism. And there would not have been any windows as such, the only reason they put in the window-like lights is that people who saw early shots kept asking how big the ship was and someone twigged on the idea of using rows of lights reminiscent of real-world cruise liners to imply the size.
The bridge would have been a lot rounder, the original design was not octagonal, it was an oblate spheroid with few actual flat surfaces except the floor grids and parts of the control panels, but Desilu only had straight lumber, glass, and other regular building materials on hand). The chairs would have a more organic look, have powered turn functionality and extrude from the deck (via CGI) as needed, not office chairs with inverted "gold tee" bases to look like they were attached. The walls would probably be powedercoat metal like in DSC but with a more practical pearlescent luster finish instead of the glaring shininess of DSC.
The control stations would have had something like small LCARS built into the surface (they actually had those but could not light them since it turned out the transparencies burned in 30 seconds or less from the hot lights it took to illuminate them) along with the jewel 'buttons' and a few ordinary push and toggle buttons. In fact, the jewel buttons would probably be transparent clickable trackballs set into the surface since that is actually closer to what they represented than the pushbutton arrays the DSC Enterprise has in their stead.
Also, with CGI making 'holographic' controls visible they would have used gesture controls to some degree (they tried it back then but without a visual reference for the viewers it just looked silly so they loaded on more jewel buttons instead) which was something Roddenberry was fascinated with.
The bridge would have had the ceiling from TMP too, they took that more or less directly from the original bridge design from before they decided not to try and hang a celling on wires for the few potential shots where the angle would show it.
One major difference between the hypothetical modern production tech TOS bridge and the DSC one is the size, Jefferies was a real engineer who was quite familiar with the needs of a military ship bridge and the practical considerations of standing watch so he deliberately kept it compact so people did not have to shout to be heard (in fact he placed the captain at the focal point of the original oblate spheroid, there is an empty spot in the US Senate chamber where it was found one of the seats was at the focal point of the dome and the person there could eavesdrop on other senators), had chairs at all stations because standing positions are simply not practical (even back then studies showed people standing watch on their feet are more distracted and likely to miss things, and when the ship lurched would be even more distracted trying to keep from being thrown around), and positioned all the controls within easy reach.
Also, CGI and computer controlled cameras would have made it easier to see that the viewscreens were supposed to be behind-the-plane holographic displays that showed depth and parallax instead of being simple flat images. And the main viewscreen would have probably been floor to ceiling with multiple inset "windows" like the overhead screens in The Cage.
The DSC Enterprise bridge is not horrible (it looks nice actually), though it is too spread out to be efficient and has way too much glare for people to sit watch for long without eyestrain.
And no, in TMP they did not throw out the designs of TOS, originally they were going to use the Phase II ship model but one of the movie division execs (and not Roddenberry or Jefferies) told the modelmaker to get rid of the old saucer and put something on that matched the new secondary hull for the final shooting model. The Phase II ship is actually in the movie in the background so the TOS saucer section (and by implication the entire TOS style Constitution class) exists in the movieverse as well. They just advanced into the next period's esthetics with their newly constructed (and reconstructed) ships.
In fact, all of the Berman Treks that showed anything from TOS confirmed that it looked the way it did in TOS.
I admit at first the Klingons just didn't look right. However they did make an effort to change that in season 2. If you look at L'Rell, the change is rather dramatic. Smoothing out her features and giving her hair made her look a lot more like a TNG style Klingon, which actually looks pretty good. And there was a background Klingon at the end of season 2 who looked like he was wearing an armored version of the TOS uniform, at least in color scheme.
How is the Spore Drive any different from Genesis? I mean a magic torpedo that could terraform a planet instantly? And we never heard of that again after ST3. *shrug* Spore Drive is honestly no different than any of the other technologies Starfleet experimented with over the years.
For the Enterprise - I think that if they had just gone with the original sizing and concepts it would have worked better for me...there wasn't really a need to make it so much bigger and shinier and it was a sadly missed opportunity to bridge the shows.
I did notice that in season 2 they started to correct the Klingons a bit - though didn't they still have those weird finger/claw extensions or did they cut down on those as well? Glad they started to come around on those...I think if they had tried to keep them a little closer from the beginning it would have cut down on a LOT of the initial anger over the show...sometimes it's all the little things.
I was always a bit of a *meh* on the genesis device. The idea that it could destroy existing matter to rebuild it - okay - but the rapid life growth afterwards seemed too much, especially on worlds that didn't have any life...a lifeless moon you could rebuild the materials etc. into more nutrient right life sustaining materials...well okay, but growing life there would be totally different. And Dr. Marcus in the original presentation did say it would be a life supporting matrix capable of sustaining whatever life they chose to put there...I always thought it was originally meant to be that they would have to plant life there afterwards in order for it to grow and that just kind of got taken over somewhere.
BUT - the idea of traveling the galaxy instantaneously (or nearly so) by traveling the roots of a magic mushroom spore that is everywhere in the galaxy at the same time. Yeah I'm sorry that's just way too out there. Maybe it they'd come up with something different, post nemesis in the form of some kind of transwarp or space fold or anything different I think it would have sat better with me. It felt like they were pushing the idea of nature is good - harming nature kills us all etc. with the spore thing. Maybe it's just me (though it does seem a sticking point for others as well). There are so many advanced travel ideas explored in the shows, the spore thing just felt so...silly? I don't know how to describe it to you. My background is very heavy physics/engineer based so maybe I just have more difficulty with it being galactic plant based?
I'm sure you understand what I mean though...sometimes there are ideas and concepts that just rub you the wrong way.
Klingons were supposed to be part of the Federation in TNG, I'm glad they didn't go that route because it would have taken away Worf's uniqueness.
Somebody on the ST: D VFX team put an Easter Egg in that shot as one of the supposed Federation ships looks like the 'Space Jellyfish Creature" 'ship' from TNG's pilot episode "Encounter at Farpoint" before it transformed into it's more Jellyfish like state (It's the 'saucer-like' ship on the second row, right side) :
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
It could also be an easter egg from V, except for the sunk in ring at the top were it is just a material change in V it is pretty much the same saucer design.
At first I thought the mushroom drive was stupid, but the scene were they showed the network from Stammet's point of view looks suspiciously like the superstring network in Andromeda except that instead of skating along the outside of the string using quantum "runners" they were inside it.
It is possible that sometime billions of years ago some spores came in contact with the superstring 'layer' of the universe (maybe the borders were thinner and things sometimes passed though back then) and colonized the strings. The regular universe spores might just be a stepping stone to the ones in the superstrings, perhaps because of a quantum effect of part of it being in the strings. The speed and limitations of the spore drive are quite similar to those of the slipstream drive from Andromeda so it does make a certain amount of sense.
For me - I think if instead of claiming it's mushrooms if they had said they had tapped into some quantum transwarp network...or really any of the more outside FTL travel ideas that ST has touched on I would have been happier about it.
I would have been happier if it was more sensible too, but I suppose its not too bad if they are actually dealing with the superstrings but Stammets can only think of it via the fungus since that is his field (the old saw about if you use hammers everything starts looking like a nail).
Some good classic sci-fi does that kind of thing, like in Skylark of Space the main character is mostly a molecular chemist but accidentally discovers a sort of quantum energy catalyst which sets things in motion to take them into space using the chance discovery. There was another, more recent one, where the main characters thought they invented an FTL drive but it turns out it wasn't, it just went exactly the speed of light while they were suspended as a complex waveform during the trip but the math was fuzzy enough that when the probes in short range tests always took a while to find when they did not arrive at the target location they thought it was a navigational theory problem instead.
If the DSC writers are clever enough they could reveal that it actually is something like the infested superstrings, which many of the core fans with their more scientific mindset could accept, but I don't think they are clever enough to be able to pull it off.
> (Quote)
> Except we know from canon that smaller vessels like scorpion fighters use matter/antimatter drives because they aren't large enough to contain a singularity. Which means, yes, they do use it on some vessels.
>
> Likewise, the only ship ever stated to use a singularity was the D'Deridex, which it was only capable of doing because of its size. There is no reason to assume any Romulan ship smaller then the D'Deridex(aka all of them) could use the singularity. And we have in-universe mentions of them using traditional matter/antimatter drives(which require dilthium) on smaller vessels.
>
> We also have no idea how the energy is pulled from the singularity into the ship's power systems, so we have nothing to suggest dilthium isn't used in that either.
True, but the ships in Picard are large enough to use a singularity (of course is speculation at this point), but Romulan aproach to tech is kinda "we use what other races don't"..
Kurtzman and company wanna change it for the SAKE of changing it.....they wanna make it like Star Wars.
Hence why Lower Decks I find superior...it RESPECT TOS, first time since 2005, TOS was presented as it is.
No, KEEP TOS. This might shock you, but there are many TOS fans and fans of the TOS style.....try to disgust that revelation, if you will.
And, unless you are Nostradamus, you don't know TRIBBLE about how a future will look like. One thing I can tell you...it will look sleek and simple...like TOS.
*holds up her friend's monden phone* ONE BUTTON....sleek. Now look at a cell from the 1980's....bulky and lots of kibble and details.
Tos seems to be the most likely style one shall see. Same with Orville.
You want kibble, lots of details and grundge? Ya got Star Wars, Aliens, Red Dwarf and Doctor Who.
Have fun, yo.
The ship that's above the 'y' of Discovery and the 'on' of the bottom caption looks like a Nova, with the lower half in shadow
Doesn't help it happens during a monologue and just after it's mentioned "dilithium supplies dried up" about a century before the Burn. Even if they couldn't find alternatives to the current warp core system, you'd think they at least tried to add new failsafe systems to the cores in case they ran out of dilithium or worse, considering the worsening shortage.
> Well, superstring theory refers to the idea of using the vibrations of tiny supersymmetric strings that make up all matter below a quantum level. It's the idea that they use to try to unify physics and explain gravity. Strings actually exist below the level of quarks in the same way quarks are below the level of neutrons/electrons/protons. (my degrees are in Experimental and Theoretical physics...but my strong suit is experimental - my theoretical is relatively poo because I'm terrible with the math at that level).
>
> For me - I think if instead of claiming it's mushrooms if they had said they had tapped into some quantum transwarp network...or really any of the more outside FTL travel ideas that ST has touched on I would have been happier about it.
Perhaps the Mycelia is the medium to access it.. until they find an artificial compound/tech.. i don't see why not.. ot could be a very cool explanation!
> Having finally watched the episode, I have to wonder - would these hypothetical ships have a built-in function, similar to the cloaking ability of some Intel ships, which causes them to just randomly explode for no adequately explained reason?
The explanation is the Burn, that we still don't know how or why it happened.. Q perhaps?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"