Well, he clearly understands AI about as well as Starfleet ship designers who insist their ships don't carry AI despite the fact that they can understand and respond appropriately to questions and instructions in natural language. (And even make mistakes, as seen when the Enterprise holodeck creates a Moriarty AI that can take over ship's functions...)
There are certain things that must happen aboard a starship going faster than light that require either AI or Jedi, because human (or Romulan) reflexes simply aren't fast enough. It's why in the Dune novels, the Guild Navigators had to use the spice melange - the limited precognition it gave them meant they could start reacting before the danger actually presented itself, and thanks to the Butlerian Jihad they actually didn't have AI.
Well, he clearly understands AI about as well as Starfleet ship designers who insist their ships don't carry AI despite the fact that they can understand and respond appropriately to questions and instructions in natural language. (And even make mistakes, as seen when the Enterprise holodeck creates a Moriarty AI that can take over ship's functions...)
There are certain things that must happen aboard a starship going faster than light that require either AI or Jedi, because human (or Romulan) reflexes simply aren't fast enough. It's why in the Dune novels, the Guild Navigators had to use the spice melange - the limited precognition it gave them meant they could start reacting before the danger actually presented itself, and thanks to the Butlerian Jihad they actually didn't have AI.
I agree, it creates a lot of problems to say AI is totally absent from Rom society, besides continuity issues with TNG. ST:P writing is what it is.
Even the old duotronic computers Daystrom invented in the 2240s were highly restrained AIs. Tomorrow is Yesterday has a comic subthread where the people who did the recent overhaul on the computer thought it should have a personality so they relaxed the controls a bit and "the grand old dame" of the fleet started flirting, giggling, pouting, and making comments like a stereotypical teenage girl, which annoyed the crew no end.
Later on, the TAS episode Cloud Nine showed the danger of the AI when an encounter essentially scrambled those controls and brought out the ship's sense of humor without the necessary empathy and understanding to even pull pranks safely.
The problem is that Kurtzman and crew are thinking of "AI" as something all its own without understanding what it is, and so it comes out like a bad fantasy story's magic that uses arbitrary artificial distinctions like nationality as its "natural laws". In this case they want viewers to believe that "synth AI" is supposed to be somehow fundamentally different from the AIs that drive holographic characters, general automation, and apparently even cyber-transhumans like Airiam.
Even the old duotronic computers Daystrom invented in the 2240s were highly restrained AIs. Tomorrow is Yesterday has a comic subthread where the people who did the recent overhaul on the computer thought it should have a personality so they relaxed the controls a bit and "the grand old dame" of the fleet started flirting, giggling, pouting, and making comments like a stereotypical teenage girl, which annoyed the crew no end.
This isn't what AI is. You can have a computer give out a simulated personality without it being an AI.
and apparently even cyber-transhumans like Airiam.
Ariam had no AI in her normally. Control just latched onto her cybernetics and took over.
Personality can be emulated without AI, true, but that is not what they did, it was not a subprogram that could just be shut off or Spock would have done it when ship giggled. It was intrinsic to the computer and had to be carefully locked down at a facility with specialized tools and skills.
And the computer had a lot of subtle AI functions that allowed the ship to function with such a small crew. When you get down to it things as simple as weapons lock-ons are a form of AI, and the computer understood the context of things said which is a more sophisticated form of AI. They did not trust computer intelligence enough to allow it much more than that though, and Daystrom's idea of bypassing the problem by imposing human engrams on the next generation of AI unit (the Multitronic series) turned out to be a deadly mistake.
I should have looked into it further to make sure it was the title of the episode instead of the clip itself but I am moderately busy today and it was the idea that was important rather than the title so I didn't. In fact it may even be the wrong episode entirely, it has been decades since I saw the series.
As for the premise, it could be taken as an occult possession or the residual cloud energy left in the system messing up the AI lockdown, in fact the question was implied by the attitudes of the crew iirc, and is a minor point either way considering the TOS example and some later ones on TNG and other series.
> @somtaawkhar said: > We did get a look at the most recent starfleet uniform this last episode(the one on the left) We also see a Picard era uniform, and one used sometime between Picard and the 3180s. > > (Image) > > > Better image from the trailer for episode 5
The Tal symbiont must have spent long periods of time without a host to have gone from at least the 2390s to the 3180s in only 6 hosts.
It's interesting that Starfleet has cycled back to command division red or any division being red I suppose. Would be nice if the uniform on the right was the 26th century uniform from the Enterprise-J and using yellow for command again would be a subtle homage to the final frontier series that never happened which featured it's own version of the burn. But I'm bias because I really love the J.
Side note: is that Oded Fehr because I've wanted to see him in Trek for a long time.
Even the old duotronic computers Daystrom invented in the 2240s were highly restrained AIs. Tomorrow is Yesterday has a comic subthread where the people who did the recent overhaul on the computer thought it should have a personality so they relaxed the controls a bit and "the grand old dame" of the fleet started flirting, giggling, pouting, and making comments like a stereotypical teenage girl, which annoyed the crew no end.
This isn't what AI is. You can have a computer give out a simulated personality without it being an AI.
and apparently even cyber-transhumans like Airiam.
Ariam had no AI in her normally. Control just latched onto her cybernetics and took over.
Personality can be emulated without AI, true, but that is not what they did, it was not a subprogram that could just be shut off or Spock would have done it when ship giggled. It was intrinsic to the computer and had to be carefully locked down at a facility with specialized tools and skills.
And the computer had a lot of subtle AI functions that allowed the ship to function with such a small crew. When you get down to it things as simple as weapons lock-ons are a form of AI, and the computer understood the context of things said which is a more sophisticated form of AI. They did not trust computer intelligence enough to allow it much more than that though, and Daystrom's idea of bypassing the problem by imposing human engrams on the next generation of AI unit (the Multitronic series) turned out to be a deadly mistake.
I should have looked into it further to make sure it was the title of the episode instead of the clip itself but I am moderately busy today and it was the idea that was important rather than the title so I didn't. In fact it may even be the wrong episode entirely, it has been decades since I saw the series.
As for the premise, it could be taken as an occult possession or the residual cloud energy left in the system messing up the AI lockdown, in fact the question was implied by the attitudes of the crew iirc, and is a minor point either way considering the TOS example and some later ones on TNG and other series.
I think we can call the concept of Mass Effect Virtual Intelligence... programmed to emulate AI, but not sentient, doing all the functions that an AI can do.. pretty much what we kinda have now..
And as we saw with the Luna VI that became EDI, the difference between VI and AI was chiefly a matter of marketing, so the Citadel species could use computers without someone crying "Geth!" every time the software did something unexpected. Basically, they fooled themselves into believing they didn't have AI because if they'd admitted the truth they all would have had to work a lot harder.
And the same would seem to be true of the Zhat Vash, because even a Vulcan wouldn't have been able to coordinate an entire fleet into dropping from FTL to STL both simultanously and in formation.
Since the J had advanced to the point that tiny pylons were all that was needed to connect the nacelles to the ship, imo ships this far further into the future should have nacelles that are completely separated from the rest of the ship
Apparently CBS thinks the same way I do😃 I haven't had a chance to fully watch the new episode yet, but I couldn't resist skimming through the beginning while getting ready for work this morning and I heard Detmer mention that one of the ships in the Federation fleet had detached nacelles!
Those look awful. Granted I can barely see anything because they are all "far" but none of them look good or interesting to the eye. The only one that gets close is that weird one with the absurdly long tail nacelles.
And as we saw with the Luna VI that became EDI, the difference between VI and AI was chiefly a matter of marketing, so the Citadel species could use computers without someone crying "Geth!" every time the software did something unexpected. Basically, they fooled themselves into believing they didn't have AI because if they'd admitted the truth they all would have had to work a lot harder.
And the same would seem to be true of the Zhat Vash, because even a Vulcan wouldn't have been able to coordinate an entire fleet into dropping from FTL to STL both simultanously and in formation.
But the Luna VI was intentionally modified to develop sentience by Cerberus and the Illusive Man, he even admited that..
I'm really hoping it is close enough to the classic Intrepid that it can be kitbashed whenever Cryptic puts it in-game, would be the perfect opportunity for them to give us a tac heavy variant to use with the Warship Voyager skin (assuming you also own the Legendary variant as well).
I'm really hoping it is close enough to the classic Intrepid that it can be kitbashed whenever Cryptic puts it in-game, would be the perfect opportunity for them to give us a tac heavy variant to use with the Warship Voyager skin (assuming you also own the Legendary variant as well).
It's quite probable that it will be in a box.. i wish they dont do that.. buy you know... the most likely candidate is the R&D box..
I'm really hoping it is close enough to the classic Intrepid that it can be kitbashed whenever Cryptic puts it in-game, would be the perfect opportunity for them to give us a tac heavy variant to use with the Warship Voyager skin (assuming you also own the Legendary variant as well).
It's quite probable that it will be in a box.. i wish they dont do that.. buy you know... the most likely candidate is the R&D box..
Oh I realize that, I think of all of these ships the Voyager-J is the only one that has any chance at all of not being a box ship but that chance is so slim it's practically non-existent. I still would like to be able to kitbash other owned Intrepid skins with it if feasible, and if that IS feasible I would also like to see it be Tac heavy.
Season three has to tell us more about the limits of time travel. Why the limitation exists is one thing. HOW is time travel limited is the detail that is needed. Until that is clarified, we may continue to salivate over these designs. But our game has no in-universe means to explain how we could possibly get them into our hands. I'm very curious to see how Cryptic skirts the detail?
(/\) Exploring Star Trek Online Since July 2008 (/\)
Season three has to tell us more about the limits of time travel. Why the limitation exists is one thing. HOW is time travel limited is the detail that is needed. Until that is clarified, we may continue to salivate over these designs. But our game has no in-universe means to explain how we could possibly get them into our hands. I'm very curious to see how Cryptic skirts the detail?
If no other explanation is possible then they could just say Q gave them to us. They'll probably just say that someone managed to covertly bring the designs back in time though.
I wonder if we will be able to get these ships since the standard method of obtaining 29th and 31st Century ships is no longer possible. Starfleet can no longer get rid of their temporal ships by sending them to the early 25th Century.
It's funny how people were indoctrinated here. No one asking for something like 32c episode arc featuring these ships and locations, but already holding their credit cards for new skins
It's funny how people were indoctrinated here. No one asking for something like 32c episode arc featuring these ships and locations, but already holding their credit cards for new skins
Time travel is banned in the 32nd century , so going there for a few missions wouldn't make any sense.
Yuck. Ugly ships. I guess Elon Musk designed them? Steel hulls from the looks of it. No obviously not really, but the look is awful. There are virtually no details at all. I'm just sitting here writing this looking at evilmark's Columbia signature and that ship looks so much better because it has actual details on it.
While I appreciate an homage to the actor, why would they name a ship after Nog in the 32nd century?
Yuck. Ugly ships. I guess Elon Musk designed them? Steel hulls from the looks of it. No obviously not really, but the look is awful. There are virtually no details at all. I'm just sitting here writing this looking at evilmark's Columbia signature and that ship looks so much better because it has actual details on it.
While I appreciate an homage to the actor, why would they name a ship after Nog in the 32nd century?
Well, probably there are U.S.S. Archer's and Kirk's... because they where important captains??
Yuck. Ugly ships. I guess Elon Musk designed them? Steel hulls from the looks of it. No obviously not really, but the look is awful. There are virtually no details at all. I'm just sitting here writing this looking at evilmark's Columbia signature and that ship looks so much better because it has actual details on it.
While I appreciate an homage to the actor, why would they name a ship after Nog in the 32nd century?
Well, probably there are U.S.S. Archer's and Kirk's... because they where important captains??
Of course there are Archers and Kirks, but Nog just doesn't rise to their level in canon. It also isn't the Nog E or anything that implies a lineage from a time when Nog was more relevant. Honestly they should have just named the ship the Eisenberg.
From what i know is the Eisenberg class.. if could be the first of it's class or something.. as you know, the U.S.S. Archer was the NCC-44278, no other letters... and i'm pretty sure there were more U.S.S. Archer's in ST history
It's funny how people were indoctrinated here. No one asking for something like 32c episode arc featuring these ships and locations, but already holding their credit cards for new skins
Time travel is banned in the 32nd century , so going there for a few missions wouldn't make any sense.
Yeah, it's not like a ship from the past could end up -by accident or not- in the 32nd century where all time travel tech has been banned and destroyed, and be able to operate better thanks to having safe amounts of dilithium.
Comments
There are certain things that must happen aboard a starship going faster than light that require either AI or Jedi, because human (or Romulan) reflexes simply aren't fast enough. It's why in the Dune novels, the Guild Navigators had to use the spice melange - the limited precognition it gave them meant they could start reacting before the danger actually presented itself, and thanks to the Butlerian Jihad they actually didn't have AI.
I agree, it creates a lot of problems to say AI is totally absent from Rom society, besides continuity issues with TNG. ST:P writing is what it is.
Later on, the TAS episode Cloud Nine showed the danger of the AI when an encounter essentially scrambled those controls and brought out the ship's sense of humor without the necessary empathy and understanding to even pull pranks safely.
The problem is that Kurtzman and crew are thinking of "AI" as something all its own without understanding what it is, and so it comes out like a bad fantasy story's magic that uses arbitrary artificial distinctions like nationality as its "natural laws". In this case they want viewers to believe that "synth AI" is supposed to be somehow fundamentally different from the AIs that drive holographic characters, general automation, and apparently even cyber-transhumans like Airiam.
Personality can be emulated without AI, true, but that is not what they did, it was not a subprogram that could just be shut off or Spock would have done it when ship giggled. It was intrinsic to the computer and had to be carefully locked down at a facility with specialized tools and skills.
And the computer had a lot of subtle AI functions that allowed the ship to function with such a small crew. When you get down to it things as simple as weapons lock-ons are a form of AI, and the computer understood the context of things said which is a more sophisticated form of AI. They did not trust computer intelligence enough to allow it much more than that though, and Daystrom's idea of bypassing the problem by imposing human engrams on the next generation of AI unit (the Multitronic series) turned out to be a deadly mistake.
As for the TAS episode title, you are right. I could not remember the title and I only did a quick single search to find the name, which turned up this clip from the episode:
I should have looked into it further to make sure it was the title of the episode instead of the clip itself but I am moderately busy today and it was the idea that was important rather than the title so I didn't. In fact it may even be the wrong episode entirely, it has been decades since I saw the series.
As for the premise, it could be taken as an occult possession or the residual cloud energy left in the system messing up the AI lockdown, in fact the question was implied by the attitudes of the crew iirc, and is a minor point either way considering the TOS example and some later ones on TNG and other series.
> We did get a look at the most recent starfleet uniform this last episode(the one on the left) We also see a Picard era uniform, and one used sometime between Picard and the 3180s.
>
> (Image)
>
>
> Better image from the trailer for episode 5
The Tal symbiont must have spent long periods of time without a host to have gone from at least the 2390s to the 3180s in only 6 hosts.
It's interesting that Starfleet has cycled back to command division red or any division being red I suppose. Would be nice if the uniform on the right was the 26th century uniform from the Enterprise-J and using yellow for command again would be a subtle homage to the final frontier series that never happened which featured it's own version of the burn. But I'm bias because I really love the J.
Side note: is that Oded Fehr because I've wanted to see him in Trek for a long time.
I think we can call the concept of Mass Effect Virtual Intelligence... programmed to emulate AI, but not sentient, doing all the functions that an AI can do.. pretty much what we kinda have now..
And the same would seem to be true of the Zhat Vash, because even a Vulcan wouldn't have been able to coordinate an entire fleet into dropping from FTL to STL both simultanously and in formation.
Word.
But the Luna VI was intentionally modified to develop sentience by Cerberus and the Illusive Man, he even admited that..
Love those ships!!!... a 31 century intrepid!! :
32nd century actually
I'm really hoping it is close enough to the classic Intrepid that it can be kitbashed whenever Cryptic puts it in-game, would be the perfect opportunity for them to give us a tac heavy variant to use with the Warship Voyager skin (assuming you also own the Legendary variant as well).
It's quite probable that it will be in a box.. i wish they dont do that.. buy you know... the most likely candidate is the R&D box..
Oh I realize that, I think of all of these ships the Voyager-J is the only one that has any chance at all of not being a box ship but that chance is so slim it's practically non-existent. I still would like to be able to kitbash other owned Intrepid skins with it if feasible, and if that IS feasible I would also like to see it be Tac heavy.
If no other explanation is possible then they could just say Q gave them to us. They'll probably just say that someone managed to covertly bring the designs back in time though.
Time travel is banned in the 32nd century , so going there for a few missions wouldn't make any sense.
While I appreciate an homage to the actor, why would they name a ship after Nog in the 32nd century?
Well, probably there are U.S.S. Archer's and Kirk's... because they where important captains??
Of course there are Archers and Kirks, but Nog just doesn't rise to their level in canon. It also isn't the Nog E or anything that implies a lineage from a time when Nog was more relevant. Honestly they should have just named the ship the Eisenberg.
*Looks at current ships in holding*
*Looks away at future ships*
Not interested....
Discovery is CLEARLY showing that so far.