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Who was behind the Burn? Warning Spoilers a head You been Warned!!!

ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 451 Arc User
So in Episode 1 we find out what was the burn was it was galaxies Supplies of Dylithum Crystals were actually Burned! So who might actually be responsible for that mass attack on the Federation and Warp Capable Race? Only one thought comes to mind Iconians here is why I think they are responsible for the Burn. We know in Cannon that the Iconians were a Powerful race a Level 3 Civilization but what we saw in Star Trek Online witch maybe part Alpha and Beta Cannon as of now depends when we reach 2409; that Iconians never let anyone have there advance tech and other races were Jealous of them and so Bombed there home-world. What if The Iconians saw that Federation reached the level that they once had and decided to Burn the Galaxies supply out of revenge. What your Thoughts who caused the burn
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,710 Community Moderator
    Outside of STO and the Gateways novels, there's nothing on the Iconians other than their tech.
    Also, the Iconians after the war in STO have stated that they just want to be left alone for about 1000 years or so. Revenge just for reaching a certain technological level, and only focusing on the Federation alone? No. I don't buy it. The Burn seems to be at least Quadrant wide, if not Galaxy wide. If it was only on the Federation... where's the Klingons? Where's the Romulans? Where's all the other antagonistic races?
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  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,632 Arc User
    I bet 600 quatloos it was radical environmentalists
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  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,775 Arc User
    it was the federation - everything is the federation's fault these days​​
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,710 Community Moderator
    I'm honestly thinking something Omega related. Wasn't there mention of like a 2 lightyear zone of destroyed subspace? What's the one thing we know of that can destroy subspace? Omega.
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  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,775 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    omega explosions have happened three times already, and none of them ever blew up nearby dilithium - why would a hypothetical fourth be different?

    then again, supernovae have happened countless times in star trek, and none of them ever went independence day before that moron's movie​​
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    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
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    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,710 Community Moderator
    omega explosions have happened three times already, and none of them ever blew up nearby dilithium - why would a hypothetical fourth be different?

    then again, supernovae have happened countless times in star trek, and none of them ever went independence day before that moron's movie​​

    Perhaps someone tried to augment Omega and it went south, like all mad science experiments involving dangerous compounds. We don't know.

    And I think it was stated that the Hobus supernova was not a normal one. It didn't behave like a normal supernova. Outside of STO we don't know why it was different.

    So realistically... it boils down to lack of information on the incidents. Hell... even if we do take STO into account, it took how many years to figure out what caused Hobus? Now if we apply that to The Burn... who even has the resources to investigate the cause of an event that basically threw the galaxy back to the wild west?

    All we have right now is small pieces of a much bigger puzzle. We can't see the picture based on like... one or two pieces of a 2000 piece puzzle being put together without a reference.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Outside of STO and the Gateways novels, there's nothing on the Iconians other than their tech.
    Also, the Iconians after the war in STO have stated that they just want to be left alone for about 1000 years or so. Revenge just for reaching a certain technological level, and only focusing on the Federation alone? No. I don't buy it. The Burn seems to be at least Quadrant wide, if not Galaxy wide. If it was only on the Federation... where's the Klingons? Where's the Romulans? Where's all the other antagonistic races?
    Star Trek Online is still Beta Cannon unless its make official through the TV Shows that its Alpha Cannon the Iconians War is We Fought in STO is to be considered Beta as of now. That is why I think its still can be the Iconians we See from there Tech how advance they are and there are the one Race in Star Trek we know nothing about in Alpha only from the Gateways in Star Trek TNG S02E11 Contagion and in Star Trek DS9 S04E23 To the Death. SO if Star Trek Online some how actually makes a Cannon Daybeu in TV or movies the Iconians are still the Air so is there Revenge !
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  • hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,541 Arc User
    Pakleds? By accident? Just throwing that out there.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,460 Arc User
    Perhaps it was the result of a failed scientific experiment to create more dilithium in the galaxy.
  • falkyr#5689 falkyr Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited November 2020
    For the subspace: The Gorn (who were apparently responsible for some random subspace destruction) might have gotten their hands on Omega, or the Dilithium mass-explosion might have been powerful enough to sheer through the subspace layer. Either way, they can still warp; most vessels in Dis S3 are apparently using Quantum Slipstream or an alternate fuel source.

    The Iconians backed off after the Midnight battle, though they were still pestering any ships that got near. It was an uneasy ceasefire between most of the Iconians, and I don't know if they would have had the means or the motivation to destroy Dilithium all around. As far as we can speculate, it wasn't a specifically targetted attack, most crystals of Dilithium spontaneously exploded everywhere. Control was definetly not to blame, it happend in about the 31st century.

    Anyway, something, un/natural, caused the dilithium crystals to self destruct, taking out most of the ships in the galaxy with them. It had to be something everywhere, and something powerful. Maybe it was the Mycelial Network, maybe it was a science experiment gone awry, maybe it was a rare event occurance, who knows.

    The Burn was deadly, crippling, and might not be done yet. We'll find out later in season 3 :smile:
    Post edited by falkyr#5689 on
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,243 Arc User
    The Gorn incident apparently involved attempting to create a traversible artificial wormhole.

    "Do you really think ripping holes in the universe is a good idea? Not enough for you that the Gorn destroyed two light-years' worth of subspace?"

    On review, trilithium can apparently be used for at least one form of FTL, but there are some issues.

    "...unless you've got some benamite, and nobody does, I can't use quantum slipstream, tachyon solar sails are slow as s***, and don't get me started on trilithium."
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  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 790 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    omega explosions have happened three times already, and none of them ever blew up nearby dilithium - why would a hypothetical fourth be different?

    then again, supernovae have happened countless times in star trek, and none of them ever went independence day before that moron's movie​​

    Perhaps someone tried to augment Omega and it went south, like all mad science experiments involving dangerous compounds. We don't know.

    And I think it was stated that the Hobus supernova was not a normal one. It didn't behave like a normal supernova. Outside of STO we don't know why it was different.

    So realistically... it boils down to lack of information on the incidents. Hell... even if we do take STO into account, it took how many years to figure out what caused Hobus? Now if we apply that to The Burn... who even has the resources to investigate the cause of an event that basically threw the galaxy back to the wild west?

    All we have right now is small pieces of a much bigger puzzle. We can't see the picture based on like... one or two pieces of a 2000 piece puzzle being put together without a reference.

    If memory serves me correctly---in the initial premise by BR, or JJA, the Romulan Sun was supposed to be a massive Quadrant effect *essential a wipe out on the Beta sector where Star Fleet resides* was revised much later to be a star system only.

    This stems from the fact, that JJA wanted only his brand of 'Trek' to be the only one selling *merchandise wise*, and back then CBS denied that change. What he couldn't do for the film, his padawan *AK* did in the Tv venue years later, ending the Federation as it is, and in the same breath clipping the Temportal Wars.

    And yes, the vagueness of the super nova incident is the same thing pulled with the Dill stuff exploding, just drop it in, without further explanation, cause they don't want to explain it in detail. It just happened, accept it and move on. In the movie time, they couldn't get away with it, but in the TV land, they can *as long they have acccess through the IP longevity*

    Paramount had a say about that change, but CBS is a different matter altogether, Moonves' revenge still continues through AK...and it is not Cryptic Studio to explain it either, since it is way ahead of the game's own timeline anyway.

    And from my bit with Omega, it had nothing to do with it...

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  • ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    One of the Reasons CBS may have made the changes about the Star could actually be a licensing issue since the Kelvin Timeline is Part of Paramount and Star Trek Picard is CBS. It maybe the Same Star that went Nova and may be the same Effect just they had to word it differently because one is CBS and the other is Paramount
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,710 Community Moderator
    Isn't Star Trek under one umbrella again after a merger?
    Also 09 Star Trek never specified it was Hobus. Just that a Star went nova, and was apparently close enough to threaten Romulus.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 8,814 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    On review, trilithium can apparently be used for at least one form of FTL, but there are some issues.

    "...unless you've got some benamite, and nobody does, I can't use quantum slipstream, tachyon solar sails are slow as s***, and don't get me started on trilithium."
    Trilithium has been used in some novels for transwarp. And some of the novel authors are working on the new shows.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,710 Community Moderator
    Only reference I can find to trilithium and Transwarp was from Battlestations! by Diane Carey, originally published back in 1986, and later republished in 1999 as a sequel to Dreadnought! Honestly I always felt Battlestations! was a sequel without needing to actually mark it as such. I mean we follow the same character AND it takes place after Dreadnought!
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Isn't Star Trek under one umbrella again after a merger?
    Also 09 Star Trek never specified it was Hobus. Just that a Star went nova, and was apparently close enough to threaten Romulus.
    That is Right What if who ever caused the Burned was behind the Super Nova in the first place but there is one Guy that keeps on popping in my head Braxtin what about that F*** in Episode 1 We know that Time Travel Tech was banned Through out the Galaxy why not Braxtin him self was behind the Burn some how to get Revenge on the Federation and Galaxy for not getting even for Voyager its far fetch. I know what you gonna say its been more then 200 years how can he live that long again he is a Time Traveler so he could have went to a point in-time aka the Future. Its Far Fetch I know but remember Show Runners may through in some Fan Favs in order to make Discovery part of the Prime Timeline that will Shut the F*** over the Anti-Trekkies out there aka the Trekkers !!!!
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  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,932 Arc User
    I have a feeling that Tholians may be involved
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,710 Community Moderator
    Can't be Braxton. After they dealt with him he was imprisoned. And the Burn is still like 200 years after Braxton's time, or something like that.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    May not Be Braxton per say it could be his Hand alias that hated the Federation as much as him or he could have found away to transfer is mind into a Synthetic Body if he actually escape from Prison to avoid being Identify. You may Never I know I do not think its the Tholians per say yes they are like Romulans who Isolate them selves but I think they need Dylitham More then any
    another Race by Blowing up 75% of the Galaxies supplies seems Illogical to them they are Crystal based Lifeforms and hell they might even Joined the Federation from all this time and could still be part of it
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,710 Community Moderator
    Braxton only had a vendetta against USS Voyager. It doesn't make sense for him to take out the whole galaxy long after Voyager was decomissioned.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,460 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Braxton only had a vendetta against USS Voyager. It doesn't make sense for him to take out the whole galaxy long after Voyager was decomissioned.

    Actually, the Braxton that had a vendetta against Voyager was erased from history. If he has a vendetta against anyone, it would be the Temporal Integrity Commission since young Braxton was arrested for crimes that he was going to commit not for anything he personally did. Considering that Voyager changed the future, then it is unlikely that Braxton would commit any of the crimes his older self did.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,710 Community Moderator
    And this is why... I hate Temporal Mechanics.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
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  • garaks31garaks31 Member Posts: 2,811 Arc User
    they banned time travel and someone said enough with your prime directives, here let's see how you do without fuel. i am curius do, how roms and breen doing. they don't need dilit.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,243 Arc User
    garaks31 wrote: »
    i am curius do, how roms and breen doing. they don't need dilit.
    [citation needed]
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  • ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    starkaos wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Braxton only had a vendetta against USS Voyager. It doesn't make sense for him to take out the whole galaxy long after Voyager was decomissioned.

    Actually, the Braxton that had a vendetta against Voyager was erased from history. If he has a vendetta against anyone, it would be the Temporal Integrity Commission since young Braxton was arrested for crimes that he was going to commit not for anything he personally did. Considering that Voyager changed the future, then it is unlikely that Braxton would commit any of the crimes his older self did.
    Yes and No Braxton him self would also have a Vedanta agents the Hole Federation it self since the TIC is part of the Federation and there could be a copy of him self some were in the Time stream to take his Revenge and since the Time Stream it self is out side normal time Braxton could have waited long enough either in a synthetic body Or In Hyphenation to a point were the Galaxy is not even looking for him. Even if he did anything in the past like Kill Archer or Prevent First Contact with the Vulcans he still would have deal with TIC. In his Mind to really Damage the Federation and her allies Knock out Communications and Burn the Dylithum aka the Burn. He could be still out there making sure Unifcation never happens but the one thing he will not see coming is USS DISCOVERY NCC-1031 and her Spore Drive!!!

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,710 Community Moderator
    They reintegrated all the Braxtons though. And honestly it still doesn't make any sense to lash out against a time AFTER your own. Even if he was responsible... there is the fact that odds are there's still a TIC in that time period as well. After all... Temporal Investigations is a thing even in the 24th Century.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 2,450 Arc User
    edited October 2020
    The idiotic idea that a very stable mineral used to regulate antimatter streams, not as some kind of fuel or whatever, could spontaneously "burn" would almost certainly take something like a Q to diddle with the laws of physics to accomplish. Of course, I suppose Q could have gotten bored and kicked the anthill just to watch the chaos and angst, but I highly doubt it.

    Of course the reason Kurtzmans's bunch come up with will probably have something to do with the mushroom realm, like maybe a delayed reaction from the empresses ship blowing up or some equally moronic plot point.

    And they forgot something, not only do the Romulans use singularity power on at least some of their ships (and since they have the technology they can always make more using them rather than M/AM), but other civilizations have warp cores that do not use dilithium, like for instance the Akritirians from the episode The Chute.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,932 Arc User
    > @phoenixc#0738 said:
    > The idiotic idea that a very stable mineral used to regulate antimatter streams, not as some kind of fuel or whatever, could spontaneously "burn" would almost certainly take something like a Q to diddle with the laws of physics to accomplish. Of course, I suppose Q could have gotten bored and kicked the anthill just to watch the chaos and angst, but I highly doubt it.
    >
    > Of course the reason Kurtzmans's bunch come up with will probably have something to do with the mushroom realm, like maybe a delayed reaction from the empresses ship blowing up or some equally moronic plot point.
    >
    > And they forgot something, not only do the Romulans use singularity power on at least some of their ships (and since they have the technology they can always make more using them rather than M/AM), but other civilizations have warp cores that do not use dilithium, like for instance the Akritirians from the episode The Chute.

    But that’s not what we are told happened.
    1) One day dilithium mines dried up
    2) Later dilithium went inert.
    3) As you said Dil regulates M/AM reactions. If it’s no longer regulating the the M/AM goes boom.
    4) It was mentioned the Federation tried other forms of FTL travel but none were as reliable.
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  • ryurangerryuranger Member Posts: 451 Arc User
    if you guys watch today's Episode more clues about the Burn and to me it sounds like a Revenge on the Federation and if Fresh Dylithum to blow up like that then it safe to say it might have to be something with in Subspace linked that would cause that to happen I think it might actually Discovery it self when it Travel through time with the time Crystal Super Nova might caused something with in Subspace to Over Load the Crystals.
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