Also, nice change of subject since my reply was about rebuking your statement that none of the synths were sentient. Not whether they were all banned or not (I sure as hell hope the Doc and the exocomps weren't)
I changed nothing about the subject. You said the Doctor and Exocomps were synths, I pointed out they are not.
Synths explicitly refers to the mass produced Soong type androids. Hence why we see holograms still in use in Picard.
I don't recall ST:P ever defining it. Remember the whole story was about AI going rogue. The Romulans were anti-AI, and there's no reason to believe Robo-Cthulu was only interested in androids.
For the Federation's part, just banning androids would not prevent future rogue AI (which was what the Federation believed happened, even though it was all deliberate thanks to the Romulans) given the fact that holograms and exocomps could be sentient too, so it would be a dumb, completely illogical, solution, and one that the infiltrator Oh would definitely oppose as not going far enough.
Now while the show sure implied that was what they did, it never once tried to answer how that makes any sense.
The Romulans were anti-AI, and there's no reason to believe Robo-Cthulu was only interested in androids.
All imagery used in the Admonition left by the ancient synths is that of androids like Data, and the Mars Synths.
Likewise, one would think that if they cared about holograms, exocomps, or anything like that, the Admonition would be usable by them, which it doesn't appear to be.
It was usable by biological people. There is zero evidence that holograms or exocomps couldn't use it, nor any reason to believe they could not. The imagery in it is irrelevant as it was what, 200k years old? It is as nonsensical as suggesting the US 1st amendment "freedom of the press" should only apply to the media using an actual printing press.
For the Federation's part, just banning androids would not prevent future rogue AI (which was what the Federation believed happened, even though it was all deliberate thanks to the Romulans) given the fact that holograms and exocomps could be sentient too, so it would be a dumb, completely illogical, solution, and one that the infiltrator Oh would definitely oppose as not going far enough.
Now while the show sure implied that was what they did, it never once tried to answer how that makes any sense.
Synths were mass produced by the thousands, and could go anywhere, and interact with the physical world. Holograms are limited by the range of their projectors, and can be made intangible as well, with only The Doctor having the ability to walk around everywhere.
You mentioned nothing on Exocomps here, which are just as physical as androids.
You're clearly right on holograms, afterall what could holograms do against physical people like Romulans? It isn't like they could command a single ship and fight off a few warbirds. Clearly they have not been an established danger to Romulans that they would overlook them as a dangerous AI. There is also no way that the Doctor's holoemitter could ever be mass produced at some point in the future.
Are the Synths and Exocomp going to be part of the explanation of why the Ship was in a Lockbox?
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Lt. Philip J. Minns
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,691Community Moderator
You mentioned nothing on Exocomps here, which are just as physical as androids.
You're clearly right on holograms, afterall what could holograms do against physical people like Romulans? It isn't like they could command a single ship and fight off a few warbirds. Clearly they have not been an established danger to Romulans that they would overlook them as a dangerous AI. There is also no way that the Doctor's holoemitter could ever be mass produced at some point in the future.
By 2399 Exocomps are a recognized species that can hold rank in Starfleet, as shown by a certain Exocomp in Lower Decks. On the other hand, the synths at Mars were more like, say... early model Cylons in Battlestar Galactica. Specifically made to function as an extention of the workforce and were nowhere near as advanced as Data or the Exocomps in terms of intelligence. They were mass produced attempted copies of Soong type Androids. Nowhere near as good, and clearly don't have the security to protect from being co-opted by outside forces.
How the Synths were treated was also an issue IMO, as it could extend to any form of Android. Seeing them as basically nothing more than a walking, talking tricorder for all intents and purposes shows that some people just don't understand some things. The actual Soong types were just as alive as the Exocomps or even humans. The knock offs... weren't. But they still had the physical capabilities of Soong types. Kinda scary IMO, especially of they could be hyjacked like they were.
As for the mobile emitter, it would take time for the technology to be available for that because originally that emitter came from the 29th Century. In STO we do have mobile emitters, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were still not as advanced as The Doctor's.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
I don't recall ST:P ever defining it. Remember the whole story was about AI going rogue. The Romulans were anti-AI, and there's no reason to believe Robo-Cthulu was only interested in androids.
For the Federation's part, just banning androids would not prevent future rogue AI (which was what the Federation believed happened, even though it was all deliberate thanks to the Romulans) given the fact that holograms and exocomps could be sentient too, so it would be a dumb, completely illogical, solution, and one that the infiltrator Oh would definitely oppose as not going far enough.
Now while the show sure implied that was what they did, it never once tried to answer how that makes any sense.
Heck, our first example of AIs going rogue (chronologically) is Control which wouldn't fit into the "Synth" definition, no matter how broad you made it.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,691Community Moderator
I think Control is also a reason why Starfleet never really ventured that deep into AI research. While all starships have a form of AI to help with ship functions and communications, it wasn't until Commander Data that the subject of sentient AI really came up. And again... with the introduction of the EMH, and what happened with Voyager's EMH having to basically adapt from being a short term augmentation of the Medical Staff to BEING the medical staff full time...
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Control hell, though this technically is more recent in-universe than Control rogue or misused AI in Star Trek goes all the way back to TOS. M5 anyone?
Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Cosmos, Yorktown-class Star Cruiser Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
Control hell, though this technically is more recent in-universe than Control rogue or misused AI in Star Trek goes all the way back to TOS. M5 anyone?
M5 kinda proved that if we truly automate potentially dangerous machines, they should be left alone with no human ever getting into their way (oh wait. There are drone-turrets already afaik).
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
You mentioned nothing on Exocomps here, which are just as physical as androids.
You're clearly right on holograms, afterall what could holograms do against physical people like Romulans? It isn't like they could command a single ship and fight off a few warbirds. Clearly they have not been an established danger to Romulans that they would overlook them as a dangerous AI. There is also no way that the Doctor's holoemitter could ever be mass produced at some point in the future.
By 2399 Exocomps are a recognized species that can hold rank in Starfleet, as shown by a certain Exocomp in Lower Decks. On the other hand, the synths at Mars were more like, say... early model Cylons in Battlestar Galactica. Specifically made to function as an extention of the workforce and were nowhere near as advanced as Data or the Exocomps in terms of intelligence. They were mass produced attempted copies of Soong type Androids. Nowhere near as good, and clearly don't have the security to protect from being co-opted by outside forces.
How the Synths were treated was also an issue IMO, as it could extend to any form of Android. Seeing them as basically nothing more than a walking, talking tricorder for all intents and purposes shows that some people just don't understand some things. The actual Soong types were just as alive as the Exocomps or even humans. The knock offs... weren't. But they still had the physical capabilities of Soong types. Kinda scary IMO, especially of they could be hyjacked like they were.
As for the mobile emitter, it would take time for the technology to be available for that because originally that emitter came from the 29th Century. In STO we do have mobile emitters, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were still not as advanced as The Doctor's.
Yes, Mars synths were robots, while the other magic synths were people. However I'm not going to agree with the idea that people don't understand the difference. That is purely an artifact of the bad writing of the show, and the apparent design idiocy of the robot synths.
There is a reason modern robot design, even as they design android type robots, doesn't go for realistic looks to them (with one notable exception that we definitely cannot talk about here) because of the uncanny valley issues and the deliberate intent of making sure people don't mistake them for people.
Why were Mars robots made to look like people at all? There is no reason that should have been done. It deliberately confuses the issue for the audience, because we could all easily see a difference between the Mars robots and the sentient synths. Yet the writers wanted us to see them as people for some reason, and ignore other actually sentient AI from past Trek. I still don't understand what they were really trying to say because of that, but that is what happens with bad writing.
As for the mobile emitter, the point is that we have the possibility of sentient AI holograms which the Romulans knew about, also knew they would eventually be able to go anywhere (as if a starship isn't already giving them amazing mobility,) and they are supposedly scared of AI because of the silly admonition thing. Yet despite all that they don't care about holograms or exocomps. ST:P instead made us wonder why we are supposed to care about mindless robots and evil synths as if they are the same thing.
Why were Mars robots made to look like people at all?
For the same reason human shaped robots exist in a lot of media.
Humanity rose to be the dominant animal on Earth because our form gives us numerous advantages over every other creature. If you are trying to design the perfect machine, the best starting point is the natural form that had already conquered the world.
This very same discussion came up in Fallout 4 as well. Why design human like synths when robots like Protectrons, My Handy, Assaultrons, Eyebots, etc. etc. already exist? And the answer was, because despite those machines improvements, their fundamentally inhuman designs limited the range of the motion, articulation, tool use, and other factors, compared to making a new machine in the image of man.
Or, as Father puts is
At that time, the year 2227, the Institute had made great strides in synth production. But it was never enough. Scientific curiosity, and the goal of perfection, drove them ever onward. What they wanted was... the perfect machine. So they followed the best example thus far - the human being. Walking, talking, fully articulate... Capable of anything.
Something like an Exocomp, or other non-human form, will never be able to achieve the same level of expertise in as many fields as a human shaped robot could. Hell, as we see in Lower Decks, they can barely pick things up effectively!
Yes, that's great if you're actually trying to create artificial humans like Data. You do that in a lab, give them human looks, great. Maybe you find out you didn't succeed, too bad.
But the Mars robots weren't a new Data, they weren't an experiment, they were mass produced robots for common use as robots. It isn't like they couldn't give them obviously inhuman colored skin and a face that no one mistakes for human when it was clear those robots were not the next Data.
Again, we can tell by the way they acted there was a huge line between the Mars robots and sentient synths, so there is no reason to confuse the issue by making them appear human at a glance. Why would you want people to look at a Mars robot and a sentient synth and think they are on the same level?
I dont discount the chance it was just easier to dress actors as "robots" to be at least faster than creating robot models. Sometimes budget and time pressure drive creative decisions
I don't know anyone who though the Mars Synths were on the same level as the Synth Colony Synths.
Picard(the show) makes it pretty clear in dialog, when the human workers are harassing F8, and F8 is totally oblivious to what they are saying, that the Mars Synths are dumb robots.
Even just visually, the Mars Synths had the same artificial skin, and yellow eye, look that Data had. While many in the synth colony, and ones like Soji and Dahj, were visually indistinguishable from humans. There is a very clear visual difference between the two, even at first glance.
I just figured that the Federation based the Mars Synths on the only known androids they could study. Soong types like Data, Lore, and B4. They have Lore and B4's parts, but they didn't have the capability of replicating their cognitive capabilities. The Federation was never able to replicate Dr. Soong's success with Positronic systems. They could replicate the physical form of a Soong type, but they just didn't know how to replicate everything a fully functional Soong Type could accomplish.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Are the Synths and Exocomp going to be part of the explanation of why the Ship was in a Lockbox?
No, this is just one more thread where Somtaaw babbles endlessly and argues with everyone, because apparently that's the only thing that gets him off. One wonders where he finds time to actually play the game.
Are the Synths and Exocomp going to be part of the explanation of why the Ship was in a Lockbox?
No, this is just one more thread where Somtaaw babbles endlessly and argues with everyone, because apparently that's the only thing that gets him off. One wonders where he finds time to actually play the game.
I don't think he plays the game either,he was in last night just doing what he does here...
On ESD last night there were a couple of players just chatting idly away about in game bugs ( I think the ones with the Synth TFO )like players usually do.
Somtaaw comes into chat and does 2 mini essays,one about how Guild Wards 2 has a page that is dedicated to 1000 bugs in it,and the other about how WOW has the same thing for 1000 bugs and trying to say STO is way better and has less bugs and they shouldn't be complaining.
Couldn't even let people just chat in peace there either!
Why would you want people to look at a Mars robot and a sentient synth and think they are on the same level?
I don't know anyone who though the Mars Synths were on the same level as the Synth Colony Synths.
Picard(the show) makes it pretty clear in dialog, when the human workers are harassing F8, and F8 is totally oblivious to what they are saying, that the Mars Synths are dumb robots.
Even just visually, the Mars Synths had the same artificial skin, and yellow eye, look that Data had. While many in the synth colony, and ones like Soji and Dahj, were visually indistinguishable from humans. There is a very clear visual difference between the two, even at first glance.
Yes that's the issue! They wanted us to see them as the same because of the synth ban affecting both sentient and non sentient synths, and their obvious similar looks, but they clearly are not the same. We obviously know they aren't the same, but in universe they are supposed to be treated the same. Why? Because they are potentially dangerous AIs. Yet we simultaneously have the non-ban of holograms, despite being AI.
And how does this compare to the topic? I'm not sure how we got here, but there is the obvious double standard and inconsistency in both cases. ST:P never explained the logic of the synth ban to any satisfaction, and I don't think Cryptic can do that either for the Inquiry.
Oh, the usual someone trying to deflect criticism away from the increasingly poor decision making and communication from Cryptic, by hijacking this into a conversation that should be in Ten Forward. Also making a lot of incorrect points, but will accuse you of changing the goalposts if you mention that.
And I'm trying not to pick, but it does become a bit much.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
So they finally updated the R&D boxes content on Tribble and I can finally see this thing up close and in all angles and oh my god, this is even uglier than I thought from the profile images.
"-Hey guys, let's make the deflector as large as possible. And rectangular too!
-But that's gonna leave the ship with a huge "shoot me here" target?
-No... because we'll put a car grille all over it!
-...Isn't that one of the visual appeals of Federation ship to have this round-ish glowing blue deflector on them to give them a distinctive loo...
-GRILLE! And put big glowing white squares all around the saucer!
-Are those oversized windows? Or just... lights?
-Don't care, put them on. And put some weirdly-shaped black patches everywhere!"
And a black registry number under the BLACK bottom of the deflector dish. Brilliant.
No DSC/Walker bridge options, either even when IRL, its bridge is a redress of Discovery's.
Oh, the usual someone trying to deflect criticism away from the increasingly poor decision making and communication from Cryptic, by hijacking this into a conversation that should be in Ten Forward. Also making a lot of incorrect points, but will accuse you of changing the goalposts if you mention that.
And I'm trying not to pick, but it does become a bit much.
And he's proud about that, too. After accusing others (me specifically, because I replied back) of derailing it and demanding them to stop, of course:
If you have anything to add onto the original topic I would be glad to talk about it. That people have just stopped talking about it isn't deflection, its the topics run its course.
Well, back to the topic, I will say at least this non-answer puts to bed the idea that CBS is responsible for these kinds of decisions, and that it's actually all on Cryptic.
So they finally updated the R&D boxes content on Tribble and I can finally see this thing up close and in all angles and oh my god, this is even uglier than I thought from the profile images.
"-Hey guys, let's make the deflector as large as possible. And rectangular too!
-But that's gonna leave the ship with a huge "shoot me here" target?
-No... because we'll put a car grille all over it!
-...Isn't that one of the visual appeals of Federation ship to have this round-ish glowing blue deflector on them to give them a distinctive loo...
-GRILLE! And put big glowing white squares all around the saucer!
-Are those oversized windows? Or just... lights?
-Don't care, put them on. And put some weirdly-shaped black patches everywhere!"
And a black registry number under the BLACK bottom of the deflector dish. Brilliant.
No DSC/Walker bridge options, either even when IRL, its bridge is a redress of Discovery's.
Oh, the usual someone trying to deflect criticism away from the increasingly poor decision making and communication from Cryptic, by hijacking this into a conversation that should be in Ten Forward. Also making a lot of incorrect points, but will accuse you of changing the goalposts if you mention that.
And I'm trying not to pick, but it does become a bit much.
And he's proud about that, too. After accusing others (me specifically, because I replied back) of derailing it and demanding them to stop, of course:
If you have anything to add onto the original topic I would be glad to talk about it. That people have just stopped talking about it isn't deflection, its the topics run its course.
To be fair, whilst it looks awful from some angles, it doesn't from ALL angles:
Good point, it might look better from other angles, but shouldn't you show an angle that it looks good from to illustrate it?
Comments
I don't recall ST:P ever defining it. Remember the whole story was about AI going rogue. The Romulans were anti-AI, and there's no reason to believe Robo-Cthulu was only interested in androids.
For the Federation's part, just banning androids would not prevent future rogue AI (which was what the Federation believed happened, even though it was all deliberate thanks to the Romulans) given the fact that holograms and exocomps could be sentient too, so it would be a dumb, completely illogical, solution, and one that the infiltrator Oh would definitely oppose as not going far enough.
Now while the show sure implied that was what they did, it never once tried to answer how that makes any sense.
It was usable by biological people. There is zero evidence that holograms or exocomps couldn't use it, nor any reason to believe they could not. The imagery in it is irrelevant as it was what, 200k years old? It is as nonsensical as suggesting the US 1st amendment "freedom of the press" should only apply to the media using an actual printing press.
You mentioned nothing on Exocomps here, which are just as physical as androids.
You're clearly right on holograms, afterall what could holograms do against physical people like Romulans? It isn't like they could command a single ship and fight off a few warbirds. Clearly they have not been an established danger to Romulans that they would overlook them as a dangerous AI. There is also no way that the Doctor's holoemitter could ever be mass produced at some point in the future.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
By 2399 Exocomps are a recognized species that can hold rank in Starfleet, as shown by a certain Exocomp in Lower Decks. On the other hand, the synths at Mars were more like, say... early model Cylons in Battlestar Galactica. Specifically made to function as an extention of the workforce and were nowhere near as advanced as Data or the Exocomps in terms of intelligence. They were mass produced attempted copies of Soong type Androids. Nowhere near as good, and clearly don't have the security to protect from being co-opted by outside forces.
How the Synths were treated was also an issue IMO, as it could extend to any form of Android. Seeing them as basically nothing more than a walking, talking tricorder for all intents and purposes shows that some people just don't understand some things. The actual Soong types were just as alive as the Exocomps or even humans. The knock offs... weren't. But they still had the physical capabilities of Soong types. Kinda scary IMO, especially of they could be hyjacked like they were.
As for the mobile emitter, it would take time for the technology to be available for that because originally that emitter came from the 29th Century. In STO we do have mobile emitters, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were still not as advanced as The Doctor's.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Heck, our first example of AIs going rogue (chronologically) is Control which wouldn't fit into the "Synth" definition, no matter how broad you made it.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
M5 kinda proved that if we truly automate potentially dangerous machines, they should be left alone with no human ever getting into their way (oh wait. There are drone-turrets already afaik).
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Yes, Mars synths were robots, while the other magic synths were people. However I'm not going to agree with the idea that people don't understand the difference. That is purely an artifact of the bad writing of the show, and the apparent design idiocy of the robot synths.
There is a reason modern robot design, even as they design android type robots, doesn't go for realistic looks to them (with one notable exception that we definitely cannot talk about here) because of the uncanny valley issues and the deliberate intent of making sure people don't mistake them for people.
Why were Mars robots made to look like people at all? There is no reason that should have been done. It deliberately confuses the issue for the audience, because we could all easily see a difference between the Mars robots and the sentient synths. Yet the writers wanted us to see them as people for some reason, and ignore other actually sentient AI from past Trek. I still don't understand what they were really trying to say because of that, but that is what happens with bad writing.
As for the mobile emitter, the point is that we have the possibility of sentient AI holograms which the Romulans knew about, also knew they would eventually be able to go anywhere (as if a starship isn't already giving them amazing mobility,) and they are supposedly scared of AI because of the silly admonition thing. Yet despite all that they don't care about holograms or exocomps. ST:P instead made us wonder why we are supposed to care about mindless robots and evil synths as if they are the same thing.
Yes, that's great if you're actually trying to create artificial humans like Data. You do that in a lab, give them human looks, great. Maybe you find out you didn't succeed, too bad.
But the Mars robots weren't a new Data, they weren't an experiment, they were mass produced robots for common use as robots. It isn't like they couldn't give them obviously inhuman colored skin and a face that no one mistakes for human when it was clear those robots were not the next Data.
Again, we can tell by the way they acted there was a huge line between the Mars robots and sentient synths, so there is no reason to confuse the issue by making them appear human at a glance. Why would you want people to look at a Mars robot and a sentient synth and think they are on the same level?
In a nut$hell.
I just figured that the Federation based the Mars Synths on the only known androids they could study. Soong types like Data, Lore, and B4. They have Lore and B4's parts, but they didn't have the capability of replicating their cognitive capabilities. The Federation was never able to replicate Dr. Soong's success with Positronic systems. They could replicate the physical form of a Soong type, but they just didn't know how to replicate everything a fully functional Soong Type could accomplish.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
No, this is just one more thread where Somtaaw babbles endlessly and argues with everyone, because apparently that's the only thing that gets him off. One wonders where he finds time to actually play the game.
I don't think he plays the game either,he was in last night just doing what he does here...
On ESD last night there were a couple of players just chatting idly away about in game bugs ( I think the ones with the Synth TFO )like players usually do.
Somtaaw comes into chat and does 2 mini essays,one about how Guild Wards 2 has a page that is dedicated to 1000 bugs in it,and the other about how WOW has the same thing for 1000 bugs and trying to say STO is way better and has less bugs and they shouldn't be complaining.
Couldn't even let people just chat in peace there either!
Yes that's the issue! They wanted us to see them as the same because of the synth ban affecting both sentient and non sentient synths, and their obvious similar looks, but they clearly are not the same. We obviously know they aren't the same, but in universe they are supposed to be treated the same. Why? Because they are potentially dangerous AIs. Yet we simultaneously have the non-ban of holograms, despite being AI.
And how does this compare to the topic? I'm not sure how we got here, but there is the obvious double standard and inconsistency in both cases. ST:P never explained the logic of the synth ban to any satisfaction, and I don't think Cryptic can do that either for the Inquiry.
Oh, the usual someone trying to deflect criticism away from the increasingly poor decision making and communication from Cryptic, by hijacking this into a conversation that should be in Ten Forward. Also making a lot of incorrect points, but will accuse you of changing the goalposts if you mention that.
And I'm trying not to pick, but it does become a bit much.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
"-Hey guys, let's make the deflector as large as possible. And rectangular too!
-But that's gonna leave the ship with a huge "shoot me here" target?
-No... because we'll put a car grille all over it!
-...Isn't that one of the visual appeals of Federation ship to have this round-ish glowing blue deflector on them to give them a distinctive loo...
-GRILLE! And put big glowing white squares all around the saucer!
-Are those oversized windows? Or just... lights?
-Don't care, put them on. And put some weirdly-shaped black patches everywhere!"
And a black registry number under the BLACK bottom of the deflector dish. Brilliant.
No DSC/Walker bridge options, either even when IRL, its bridge is a redress of Discovery's.
And he's proud about that, too. After accusing others (me specifically, because I replied back) of derailing it and demanding them to stop, of course:
Good point, it might look better from other angles, but shouldn't you show an angle that it looks good from to illustrate it?