> @evilmark444 said: > I listened through the 6/29/2012 episode of priority 1, there was some discussion about a previous interview regarding lockboxes so it could be in one of the few earlier episodes, but there was also some discussion of Al wanting to put the Wells in the game and CBS giving push back so maybe the exotic only statement was made later in regard to the Wells release. I'll keep updating as I'm able to listen to more old episodes.
I do believe it will be good to find it, but I'm not sure Somtaaw will even listen when you provide him with the evidence of the statement.
Hell Kael admitted that the devs believe it definitely was said at one point and he didn't accept that.
I would also recommend listening to podcasts , and official streams (if you can find them) from 2016. Around the time the connie was released.
I vaguely remember a podcast/stream in 2016 where there was a bit of nashing of teeth regarding the connie release. Specifically how she was released. For some reason in my hazy memory i remember one of the devs talking about general outlines of how they decide what goes into what format.
Sorry i couldnt be more help. I tried searching old reddit/sto threads. Cause if there was ever a time the devs said "We will always release X ships in this format" reddit would have bookmarked it for the ages. No luck so far
> @foxman00 said: > @evilmark444 > > I would also recommend listening to podcasts , and official streams (if you can find them) from 2016. Around the time the connie was released. > > I vaguely remember a podcast/stream in 2016 where there was a bit of nashing of teeth regarding the connie release. Specifically how she was released. For some reason in my hazy memory i remember one of the devs talking about general outlines of how they decide what goes into what format. > > Sorry i couldnt be more help. I tried searching old reddit/sto threads. Cause if there was ever a time the devs said "We will always release X ships in this format" reddit would have bookmarked it for the ages. No luck so far
I think the statement was made back before the devs started preferring Reddit over the Forums. It used to not be as bad of a divide.
I would also recommend listening to podcasts , and official streams (if you can find them) from 2016. Around the time the connie was released.
The original statement in question was made in 2012, when the first lockbox came to the game. The reason for making it at the time was to reassure the players who were naturally concerned about lockboxes being added to the game that normal faction ships would always be in the C-store and that only unusual or rare ships would be put in boxes.
And no, they never said "we promise/guarantee", it was simply a statement from a dev that people accepted to be true. And it was true at that time, and for the next 8 years after that. Despite Kael saying it has not actually been in force for several years, the fact remains that for his entire tenure as CM not even one single "normal faction ship" has been put in a lockbox/promo pack, until the Inquiry. Not even one.
So
1) Yes, the statement was absolutely made and anyone who says otherwise is simply wrong. People who were around back then remember it, and no one even disputed it until the Inquiry came out and it started getting brought up.
2) No, Cryptic did not lie. A lie is saying something you know isn't true, and it was true for a very long time. Changing their policy years later does not retroactively make a statement 8 years ago a lie.
All of that said, the part that sucks about this change is that a lot of people could make peace with the idea of lockboxes as long as the "normal faction ships" would be available as direct purchases. But now, apparently any regular faction ships can potentially be put in boxes(especially if it is shown on a new show). I think this is a bad move, but my opinion is irrelevant to their business decisions.
The original statement in question was made in 2012, when the first lockbox came to the game.
I believe this is the case, unfortunately Priority One's archive only goes back to 6/19/2012, which is about seven months after the first JAS promo and five months after the first lockbox (Cardassian). So if it was said on their podcast then the actual statement could be lost forever unless earlier podcasts are available somewhere else.
I won't completely disregard the notion that the statement never happened though, the 6/29/2012 interview did have a few things that could have been misconstrued by the fanbase, resulting in us collectively deciding that lockboxes were for exotic ships, referring to these vague comments as evidence, and using each release as a confirmation of something that was not actually true. I'm not saying this is what happened, only that I can see how that COULD have been what happened.
Finally, even though STO has incorporated many things from Picard so far there's still the strong possibility that STO will ultimately be declared an alternate universe. Picard already contradicts the original STO backstory, and the season 1 finale conflicts with Data's implied appearance at the end of one of the missions with Sela. If STO ultimately IS an alternate universe from Picard then the argument could be made that the Inquiry is, infact, exotic. Kael's recent statement means that's not a requirement, but the argument could certainly be made.
Finally, even though STO has incorporated many things from Picard so far there's still the strong possibility that STO will ultimately be declared an alternate universe. Picard already contradicts the original STO backstory, and the season 1 finale conflicts with Data's implied appearance at the end of one of the missions with Sela. If STO ultimately IS an alternate universe from Picard then the argument could be made that the Inquiry is, infact, exotic. Kael's recent statement means that's not a requirement, but the argument could certainly be made.
I know Kael has mentioned that Cryptic has discussed internally, though hasn't actually set it in stone, that they might blame any changes on us mucking with the timeline in "Butterfly". So while STO didn't start off in the Picard timeline, everything after Butterfly is the Picard timeline. Which would negate any "exotic" ship argument.
Though, again, its not been decided/set in stone this is what they are going to do. It honestly all depends on what Picard S2/3 do.
Maybe even Discovery Season 3. It might reference something in Picards time that occurred that Picard will then run with. Cant discount that yet
'Picard' contradicts UFP/Starfleet because they are trying to hit us over the head commenting about current times. Nothing more, nothing less. 'Lower Decks' turns the Ship back on course.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Lt. Philip J. Minns
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,696Community Moderator
Now, that thing is a BEAST! Cmdr Tac BOFF Seat, turn rate of 13.5, and five front weapons, as well as the ability to use Cannon. This will be a very potent ship, any way you slice it. Too bad it will be unobtainium
Actually she's not unobatinium. She was put in the Infinity Box, which means as long as there is a demand there will be a pretty decent supply for cheeper than the Miracle Worker Flight Deck Connie. With it being so new prices are probably gonna hover around 600-800 mil ECs on the Exchange, which is a lot less than the 1.3 billion for the MW FD Connie.
Like the Kelvin Connie, the Mirror Connie is going to actually be more accessable than the other variants.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
> @evilmark444 said:
> I listened through the 6/29/2012 episode of priority 1, there was some discussion about a previous interview regarding lockboxes so it could be in one of the few earlier episodes, but there was also some discussion of Al wanting to put the Wells in the game and CBS giving push back so maybe the exotic only statement was made later in regard to the Wells release. I'll keep updating as I'm able to listen to more old episodes.
I do believe it will be good to find it, but I'm not sure Somtaaw will even listen when you provide him with the evidence of the statement.
Hell Kael admitted that the devs believe it definitely was said at one point and he didn't accept that.
Why you feel the need to convince Somt? curious. Its not like he, if convinced, he will convince Cryptic too. I mean sharing info and searching for posterity and authenticity is good but why would anyone strive to convince another player who has stuck into one static opinion? I think we all have different opinions and thats ok, its part of human diversity too. I disagree with a big portion of what Somt says but I am not going to hold my breath trying to convince. What you really want is find the "evidence" and present them to kael or al
Why you feel the need to convince Somt? curious. Its not like he, if convinced, he will convince Cryptic too.
Some people kinda pick on him because they consider him a "white knight". It's unnecessary, as I think all he does is provide information.
In the end, Cryptic sometimes do stuff people like, sometimes they don't, and they also make mistakes on both ends. This year has however shown a huge tendency towards the latter, which is one of the reasons lots of players are pretty angry now.
It would be great though if Cryptic realize how much of a mistake certain choices (like Inquiry = promo) were, and go back to a better way of treating their audience.
Why you feel the need to convince Somt? curious. Its not like he, if convinced, he will convince Cryptic too. I mean sharing info and searching for posterity and authenticity is good but why would anyone strive to convince another player who has stuck into one static opinion? I think we all have different opinions and thats ok, its part of human diversity too. I disagree with a big portion of what Somt says but I am not going to hold my breath trying to convince. What you really want is find the "evidence" and present them to kael or al
I have no problem with accepting that Cryptic said so, if anyone actually had evidence that they did.
All that I have ever pointed out is that said evidence has literally never been provided in all the years people have said it was a rule. And that Kael never said he knows another dev said it, only that he thinks Al may have. Which is something else entirely.
Hell, even I've tried to find the supposed quote before, because i legitimately want to see it so I can bookmark it, and transcribe it, so that I have it on hand to use when needed. Just like I have done with the dev quote about fleet holdings, and Al's comments about being out of narrative material for STO before the new Trek shows started airing.
Same reason I do those weekly livestream breakdowns, so that information can be on hand to be used when needed.
Thats not my point though. The problem is, some think, if they convince you, then everything is solved as if you are part of Cryptic's team while In reality to trigger an official response, one way or another, they need to present the comment/statement about which ships are included to someone from cryptic. Its different to telling you once they disagree on one thing - I disagree on a lot with you as well - and different to seriously strive to convince you otherwise in every thread - just count percentage of posts made just for it. This way every thread ends in a back and forth on them trying to convince you on their points and you trying to convince them on your points. At some point we should accept different people can have different opinions - plus it doesnt even matter what our opinion is, but it matters what opinion the decision making team(Cryptic) has
> @lordmerc22 said: > (Quote) > > Why you feel the need to convince Somt? curious. Its not like he, if convinced, he will convince Cryptic too. I mean sharing info and searching for posterity and authenticity is good but why would anyone strive to convince another player who has stuck into one static opinion? I think we all have different opinions and thats ok, its part of human diversity too. I disagree with a big portion of what Somt says but I am not going to hold my breath trying to convince. What you really want is find the "evidence" and present them to kael or al
Oh I know. We already had confirmation from Karl that they believe the quote in question was probably said. Somtaaw is just an enigma. White Knight might be an apt term for him, but like I mentioned I don't think any evidence would ever convince him otherwise on his views from what I've seen.
The only reason I brought that up was because like another poster mentioned Somtaaw has a habit of popping up in every single thread that's critical of Cryptic in any way.
We don't need to convince Kael, he already said they believe it probably happened.
This may well be completely irrelevant and nonsensical to most people, but aside from the stats and the fact that it's a canon, faction-specific ship stuck in a promo pack... How many people actually care that much about the Inquiry? I know for me I care a lot more about how a ship looks and "feels" rather than just DPS numbers or novelty when it comes to STO. And the Inquiry really just feels very... Picard.
I don't mean that as in Captain Jean-luc Picard who we all know and love, I mean "Picard" as in the series. It's definitely Star Trek, it looks neat enough from a distance and from a specific angle, but then I get a closer look at it and it's simply "okay" at best. The ship looks like they were going for something like the old Avenger class from the DS9 Dominion War game, but edgier. I look at the Inquiry and in the promo pics it looks fine. In the copy-paste fleet it looks decent; the ship isn't the problem, the fact that Riker brought 200 of ONLY one ship type when the Federation is being all sulky and emo recovering from their biggest shipyard getting blown up is. But then I see it in-game and... What's up with that deflector? Why is the engineering hull so boxy squat and plain? I haven't seen the ship up close, granted; but what I've gotten from fly-bys outside ESD is just NOT an appealing ship to me. And don't get me wrong, "boxy" and "Starfleet" can work for me. I've always thought that STO's Avenger was exactly what a Federation battlecruiser should be. Heck even though I dislike the flying shovel that is the Arbiter, at least it elicits a response from me when I look at its ugly mug! The Inquiry is just... Meh.
It's got some parts that could have worked well for me if the follow-through had been different, but overall I give it a 5/10, "it was okay" review. Kind of like Picard overall.
Post edited by terloki on
Admiral Katrina Tokareva - U.S.S. Cosmos, Yorktown-class Star Cruiser Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
I find the Inquiry to be an unappealing and rather ugly design too. It is not any one specific thing (though the hair-comb deflector is probably the worst part among many), it is more like they took all the most lackluster features of various Fed designs and rolled them all into one humdrum ship. Where STO puts the thing is irrelevant as far as I am concerned, I will not be getting one unless it is a free thing like a promo code or event ship.
For the Inquiry, I agree it looks incredibly ugly and so... conventional. That deflector, ugh... who greenlit that thing? Just why does it exist? The Vengeance's moving shielding plates were a much better idea if the concept was to protect the very fragile deflector.
the Federation if you actually think about it. Mostly due to Mariner.
Mariner is the Mary Sue people claim Burnham was, but taken up to 11. Her father is a Starfleet admiral, her mother is a ship captain(who was mentored by Riker), and she is such close buddies that Riker gives her contraband on a frequent basis.
The child of a Starfleet officer gets into Starfleet because one or both of her parents were Starfleet and is friend with the man, famously known as a womanizer and occasional loose cannon, who mentored her mother? Oh my god, that's totally unnatural human behavior and has never been seen in Star Trek!
Also, unlike Burnham she's not treated like the chosen one for many things, like:
-Spock's, previously unheard of, half sister
-Control's (Skynet on steroids on a galactic level) nemesis
-the Red Angel's daughter and then the second Red Angel
-the one who ended up guiding the crew across the whole second season with the Red Bursts to tell them where to go, via time-travel
-the "morality pet" of the Emperor
-the one who derailed Mirror!Lorca's plans
-the one who put the thing needed to destroy the Klingon flagship
-the one who kills the self-proclaimed new Kahless
She was top of her class in the academy, and everyone looked up to her. She constantly is the know it all, who gets everything done herself, and never makes any real mistakes. At the same time, she breaks all the rules, and gets away with it due to nepotism.
And the show makes it clear that she does make a lot of mistakes, often more intentionally than not and the only reason she is not fired is because her mother still cares for her enough because she knows that if Starfleet was aware of Mariner's actions, she'd be kicked out, at the very least. Also, she makes the "mistakes" because she doesn't want to be promoted and has a lot of personal issues that accumulated and derailed her career and mental health before her time on the Cerritos. She also doesn't break all the rules, when the situation demands it, she knows when to stop fully messing around and do the job she's suppsoed to do.
By the end of season one she not only learns nothing about acting better, but is instead validated in her constant rule breaking by having it be what saves the day, and her nepotism facilitating mother conspires with her to allow her to keep doing it because it works.
That was the main plot of the ENTIRE penultimate episode that she started to get better because she needed therapy after dismissing it as for the weak (something also present today).
To make matters worse, everyone from Mariner's mother, to the other captains of the California Class ships, to even the Edosian captain of the Osler, are portrayed as wildly incompetent constantly. The only decent captains seen in Lower Decks was the one who was Mariner's buddy in school, and Riker at the end. And even then, they make Riker look bad in his facilitating of illegal contraband trading with ensigns.
That's like... the reason of many, many episodes of Star Trek: one captain/admiral does something really stupid and the Enterprise/Defiant/Voyager has to fix this mess.
The Federation's ineptitude is taken to the extreme in this last episode, making them so blindly dumb about Beta III, and the Pakleds, that it stretched belief that the Federation could actually function at all.
Yeah, no, Riker's comments about the "Pakled party" and how he easily trashes them with one ship make it clear the Cerritos' crew is the one out of touch in the entire situation, and Starfleet knows what the Pakleds have become, which is fitting, considering how their senior crew acts and Freeman thinks she knows all. Since the show mentions nobody takes the Cerritos seriously in Starfleet, I wouldn't surprised if they weren't told anything important outside of direct second contact missions because they know the senior crew would make things worse or get people killed.
Also, about Beta III, it WAS hilariously horribly handled by Starfleet but it was also a lack of communication to the next generation of Beta III from the TOS gen, and it's something we see even in the real world today with so many "wait, why wasn't we taught that important stuff at school/by parents?".
Whereas, even in Picard, the Federation's ban on synths is based on the same completely justifiable arguments they use to ban genetic augmentation
Yeah, no, there is a big difference between stopping uncontrolled genetic manipulations and banning sentient beings, especially when it's clear it's only A PART of these beings who got brainwashed by a third party. And considering how the hijacked Synths acted before the attack (way less sentient than Data), that'd be the equivalent of banning robots and neurodivergent people because some of them don't act like "normal" people.
and their unwillingness to help the Romulan is justifiable in that the Federation was literally founded in war against the Romulans. The distaste for the Romulans has deep seated, and justifiable, sources.
Unwillingness to help them in some political disputes, I can agree.
Unwillingness to help them not suffer a near genocide? Yeah, no, zero justification for Starfleet, ESPECIALLY after the events of the Undiscovered Country.
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,696Community Moderator
From what I know of Mariner... she thrives in chaos. Its when she actually shows who she really is. Not the hotheaded firecracker that we normally see outside of a crisis, but a competent officer who knows when to get serious.
Also we do have to consider that Lower Decks is meant to be a bit more comedy based so I doubt that in a more serious show they would portray Mariner the exact same way. They'd probably tone it down from comedic levels but maintain the core of the character's behavior. Rather than refuse promotions like Riker did for a long time, she chooses to act in a manner that tries to disqualify her from promotions because she's comfortable where she is.
But there are moments where we see her true potential.
As for Mariner reverting to her old self... her best friend had just said that he was not going to be concerned about promotions anymore, only to turn around and accept not only a promotion, but a transfer to USS Titan. I think she is at least a little justified in being angry at the rather quick turn around on that. But again we have to consider that Lower Decks is meant to be funny, so they naturally ramped up her anger to comedic levels.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
There is also the fact it's compatible with C-Store ship parts and that it's explicitly, in the STO lore, the template of the Avenger and the console is part of a set with both Avenger and Arbiter.
So to get the full set, you need two C-Store ships (nothing new here) and a box ship (first case, IIRC). Previously, complete sets were either from box-only (normal lockbox and/or R&D box, and sometimes lobi) ships or C-store only ships, with occasionally a 4th free-event-only console in the mix.
Oh, while I'm here and bored enough to answer a bit:
While most of those are bunk
I stopped paying attention here (still read the whole post because it's entertaining) considering I just brought facts and plot points. None of these were hyperboles. Also, Control (in Gant's body) explicitly said he needed Burnham to gain access to the Sphere data on Discovery. In the bad future vision witnessed by Michael, Control makes a point to kill her last and up close to gloat a "goodbye".
Except none of the synths were sentient when they were banned.
The Doctor, Exocomps (explicitly showcased in LD), various sentient holograms: "HELLOOOOOO?!"
Also, take that into the Lower Decks thread over in general please and thank you.
Don't start derailing this discussion in the first place, then. That's almost a bully tactic.
The Doctor, Exocomps (explicitly showcased in LD), various sentient holograms: "HELLOOOOOO?!"
Literally none of those things are synths, and we explicitly see holograms still in use.
Good to know you didn't watch the show.
Since you really wanna drag this on and assume things about me (that's rude, BTW):
An artificial lifeform, artificial organism, synthetic lifeform, or non-biological lifeform, was any sort of automaton that possessed artificial intelligence. Though not all artificial lifeforms had sentience, they often appeared in humanoid form. The terms synth or synthetic were, by the late 24th century, used to describe such life.
--Memory Alpha
Also, nice change of subject since my reply was about rebuking your statement that none of the synths were sentient. Not whether they were all banned or not (I sure as hell hope the Doc and the exocomps weren't).
#TASforSTO
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,696Community Moderator
I doubt the Exocomps or The Doctor was. After all, The Doctor became fully sentient himself, and the Exocomps pretty much became a full artifical species recognized by the Federation.
I interpret the Synth ban to focus mostly on Androids because of the Mars attack.
There are always exceptions to bans. Otherwise why is Dr. Bashir still in Starfleet after it was revealed that he's an augment? Wouldn't that be automatic grounds for discharge because of the ban on Genetic Engineering that isn't required for life saving procedures? While it wasn't his choice he still is one.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
Also, nice change of subject since my reply was about rebuking your statement that none of the synths were sentient. Not whether they were all banned or not (I sure as hell hope the Doc and the exocomps weren't)
I changed nothing about the subject. You said the Doctor and Exocomps were synths, I pointed out they are not.
Synths explicitly refers to the mass produced Soong type androids. Hence why we see holograms still in use in Picard.
Isn't Synths just shorthand for Synthetic Lifeform which the Doctor and Exocomps are? Saying that I have no problem with one type of Synth having a ban and another type being allowed. That's a very human thing to do even though both are technically the same being Synthetic Lifeforms.
Comments
> I listened through the 6/29/2012 episode of priority 1, there was some discussion about a previous interview regarding lockboxes so it could be in one of the few earlier episodes, but there was also some discussion of Al wanting to put the Wells in the game and CBS giving push back so maybe the exotic only statement was made later in regard to the Wells release. I'll keep updating as I'm able to listen to more old episodes.
I do believe it will be good to find it, but I'm not sure Somtaaw will even listen when you provide him with the evidence of the statement.
Hell Kael admitted that the devs believe it definitely was said at one point and he didn't accept that.
I would also recommend listening to podcasts , and official streams (if you can find them) from 2016. Around the time the connie was released.
I vaguely remember a podcast/stream in 2016 where there was a bit of nashing of teeth regarding the connie release. Specifically how she was released. For some reason in my hazy memory i remember one of the devs talking about general outlines of how they decide what goes into what format.
Sorry i couldnt be more help. I tried searching old reddit/sto threads. Cause if there was ever a time the devs said "We will always release X ships in this format" reddit would have bookmarked it for the ages. No luck so far
> @evilmark444
>
> I would also recommend listening to podcasts , and official streams (if you can find them) from 2016. Around the time the connie was released.
>
> I vaguely remember a podcast/stream in 2016 where there was a bit of nashing of teeth regarding the connie release. Specifically how she was released. For some reason in my hazy memory i remember one of the devs talking about general outlines of how they decide what goes into what format.
>
> Sorry i couldnt be more help. I tried searching old reddit/sto threads. Cause if there was ever a time the devs said "We will always release X ships in this format" reddit would have bookmarked it for the ages. No luck so far
I think the statement was made back before the devs started preferring Reddit over the Forums. It used to not be as bad of a divide.
The original statement in question was made in 2012, when the first lockbox came to the game. The reason for making it at the time was to reassure the players who were naturally concerned about lockboxes being added to the game that normal faction ships would always be in the C-store and that only unusual or rare ships would be put in boxes.
And no, they never said "we promise/guarantee", it was simply a statement from a dev that people accepted to be true. And it was true at that time, and for the next 8 years after that. Despite Kael saying it has not actually been in force for several years, the fact remains that for his entire tenure as CM not even one single "normal faction ship" has been put in a lockbox/promo pack, until the Inquiry. Not even one.
So
1) Yes, the statement was absolutely made and anyone who says otherwise is simply wrong. People who were around back then remember it, and no one even disputed it until the Inquiry came out and it started getting brought up.
2) No, Cryptic did not lie. A lie is saying something you know isn't true, and it was true for a very long time. Changing their policy years later does not retroactively make a statement 8 years ago a lie.
All of that said, the part that sucks about this change is that a lot of people could make peace with the idea of lockboxes as long as the "normal faction ships" would be available as direct purchases. But now, apparently any regular faction ships can potentially be put in boxes(especially if it is shown on a new show). I think this is a bad move, but my opinion is irrelevant to their business decisions.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I believe this is the case, unfortunately Priority One's archive only goes back to 6/19/2012, which is about seven months after the first JAS promo and five months after the first lockbox (Cardassian). So if it was said on their podcast then the actual statement could be lost forever unless earlier podcasts are available somewhere else.
I won't completely disregard the notion that the statement never happened though, the 6/29/2012 interview did have a few things that could have been misconstrued by the fanbase, resulting in us collectively deciding that lockboxes were for exotic ships, referring to these vague comments as evidence, and using each release as a confirmation of something that was not actually true. I'm not saying this is what happened, only that I can see how that COULD have been what happened.
Finally, even though STO has incorporated many things from Picard so far there's still the strong possibility that STO will ultimately be declared an alternate universe. Picard already contradicts the original STO backstory, and the season 1 finale conflicts with Data's implied appearance at the end of one of the missions with Sela. If STO ultimately IS an alternate universe from Picard then the argument could be made that the Inquiry is, infact, exotic. Kael's recent statement means that's not a requirement, but the argument could certainly be made.
Maybe even Discovery Season 3. It might reference something in Picards time that occurred that Picard will then run with. Cant discount that yet
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Actually she's not unobatinium. She was put in the Infinity Box, which means as long as there is a demand there will be a pretty decent supply for cheeper than the Miracle Worker Flight Deck Connie. With it being so new prices are probably gonna hover around 600-800 mil ECs on the Exchange, which is a lot less than the 1.3 billion for the MW FD Connie.
Like the Kelvin Connie, the Mirror Connie is going to actually be more accessable than the other variants.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Why you feel the need to convince Somt? curious. Its not like he, if convinced, he will convince Cryptic too. I mean sharing info and searching for posterity and authenticity is good but why would anyone strive to convince another player who has stuck into one static opinion? I think we all have different opinions and thats ok, its part of human diversity too. I disagree with a big portion of what Somt says but I am not going to hold my breath trying to convince. What you really want is find the "evidence" and present them to kael or al
Some people kinda pick on him because they consider him a "white knight". It's unnecessary, as I think all he does is provide information.
In the end, Cryptic sometimes do stuff people like, sometimes they don't, and they also make mistakes on both ends. This year has however shown a huge tendency towards the latter, which is one of the reasons lots of players are pretty angry now.
It would be great though if Cryptic realize how much of a mistake certain choices (like Inquiry = promo) were, and go back to a better way of treating their audience.
Thats not my point though. The problem is, some think, if they convince you, then everything is solved as if you are part of Cryptic's team while In reality to trigger an official response, one way or another, they need to present the comment/statement about which ships are included to someone from cryptic. Its different to telling you once they disagree on one thing - I disagree on a lot with you as well - and different to seriously strive to convince you otherwise in every thread - just count percentage of posts made just for it. This way every thread ends in a back and forth on them trying to convince you on their points and you trying to convince them on your points. At some point we should accept different people can have different opinions - plus it doesnt even matter what our opinion is, but it matters what opinion the decision making team(Cryptic) has
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> Why you feel the need to convince Somt? curious. Its not like he, if convinced, he will convince Cryptic too. I mean sharing info and searching for posterity and authenticity is good but why would anyone strive to convince another player who has stuck into one static opinion? I think we all have different opinions and thats ok, its part of human diversity too. I disagree with a big portion of what Somt says but I am not going to hold my breath trying to convince. What you really want is find the "evidence" and present them to kael or al
Oh I know. We already had confirmation from Karl that they believe the quote in question was probably said. Somtaaw is just an enigma. White Knight might be an apt term for him, but like I mentioned I don't think any evidence would ever convince him otherwise on his views from what I've seen.
The only reason I brought that up was because like another poster mentioned Somtaaw has a habit of popping up in every single thread that's critical of Cryptic in any way.
We don't need to convince Kael, he already said they believe it probably happened.
I don't mean that as in Captain Jean-luc Picard who we all know and love, I mean "Picard" as in the series. It's definitely Star Trek, it looks neat enough from a distance and from a specific angle, but then I get a closer look at it and it's simply "okay" at best. The ship looks like they were going for something like the old Avenger class from the DS9 Dominion War game, but edgier. I look at the Inquiry and in the promo pics it looks fine. In the copy-paste fleet it looks decent; the ship isn't the problem, the fact that Riker brought 200 of ONLY one ship type when the Federation is being all sulky and emo recovering from their biggest shipyard getting blown up is. But then I see it in-game and... What's up with that deflector? Why is the engineering hull so boxy squat and plain? I haven't seen the ship up close, granted; but what I've gotten from fly-bys outside ESD is just NOT an appealing ship to me. And don't get me wrong, "boxy" and "Starfleet" can work for me. I've always thought that STO's Avenger was exactly what a Federation battlecruiser should be. Heck even though I dislike the flying shovel that is the Arbiter, at least it elicits a response from me when I look at its ugly mug! The Inquiry is just... Meh.
It's got some parts that could have worked well for me if the follow-through had been different, but overall I give it a 5/10, "it was okay" review. Kind of like Picard overall.
Admiral Dananra Lekall - R.R.W. Teverresh, Deihu-class Warbird
General J'Kar son of K'tsulan - I.K.S. Dlahath, Vo'devwl-class Carrier
The child of a Starfleet officer gets into Starfleet because one or both of her parents were Starfleet and is friend with the man, famously known as a womanizer and occasional loose cannon, who mentored her mother? Oh my god, that's totally unnatural human behavior and has never been seen in Star Trek!
Also, unlike Burnham she's not treated like the chosen one for many things, like:
-Spock's, previously unheard of, half sister
-Control's (Skynet on steroids on a galactic level) nemesis
-the Red Angel's daughter and then the second Red Angel
-the one who ended up guiding the crew across the whole second season with the Red Bursts to tell them where to go, via time-travel
-the "morality pet" of the Emperor
-the one who derailed Mirror!Lorca's plans
-the one who put the thing needed to destroy the Klingon flagship
-the one who kills the self-proclaimed new Kahless
And the show makes it clear that she does make a lot of mistakes, often more intentionally than not and the only reason she is not fired is because her mother still cares for her enough because she knows that if Starfleet was aware of Mariner's actions, she'd be kicked out, at the very least. Also, she makes the "mistakes" because she doesn't want to be promoted and has a lot of personal issues that accumulated and derailed her career and mental health before her time on the Cerritos. She also doesn't break all the rules, when the situation demands it, she knows when to stop fully messing around and do the job she's suppsoed to do.
That was the main plot of the ENTIRE penultimate episode that she started to get better because she needed therapy after dismissing it as for the weak (something also present today).
That's like... the reason of many, many episodes of Star Trek: one captain/admiral does something really stupid and the Enterprise/Defiant/Voyager has to fix this mess.
Yeah, no, Riker's comments about the "Pakled party" and how he easily trashes them with one ship make it clear the Cerritos' crew is the one out of touch in the entire situation, and Starfleet knows what the Pakleds have become, which is fitting, considering how their senior crew acts and Freeman thinks she knows all. Since the show mentions nobody takes the Cerritos seriously in Starfleet, I wouldn't surprised if they weren't told anything important outside of direct second contact missions because they know the senior crew would make things worse or get people killed.
Also, about Beta III, it WAS hilariously horribly handled by Starfleet but it was also a lack of communication to the next generation of Beta III from the TOS gen, and it's something we see even in the real world today with so many "wait, why wasn't we taught that important stuff at school/by parents?".
Yeah, no, there is a big difference between stopping uncontrolled genetic manipulations and banning sentient beings, especially when it's clear it's only A PART of these beings who got brainwashed by a third party. And considering how the hijacked Synths acted before the attack (way less sentient than Data), that'd be the equivalent of banning robots and neurodivergent people because some of them don't act like "normal" people.
Unwillingness to help them in some political disputes, I can agree.
Unwillingness to help them not suffer a near genocide? Yeah, no, zero justification for Starfleet, ESPECIALLY after the events of the Undiscovered Country.
Also we do have to consider that Lower Decks is meant to be a bit more comedy based so I doubt that in a more serious show they would portray Mariner the exact same way. They'd probably tone it down from comedic levels but maintain the core of the character's behavior. Rather than refuse promotions like Riker did for a long time, she chooses to act in a manner that tries to disqualify her from promotions because she's comfortable where she is.
But there are moments where we see her true potential.
As for Mariner reverting to her old self... her best friend had just said that he was not going to be concerned about promotions anymore, only to turn around and accept not only a promotion, but a transfer to USS Titan. I think she is at least a little justified in being angry at the rather quick turn around on that. But again we have to consider that Lower Decks is meant to be funny, so they naturally ramped up her anger to comedic levels.
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So to get the full set, you need two C-Store ships (nothing new here) and a box ship (first case, IIRC). Previously, complete sets were either from box-only (normal lockbox and/or R&D box, and sometimes lobi) ships or C-store only ships, with occasionally a 4th free-event-only console in the mix.
Oh, while I'm here and bored enough to answer a bit:
I stopped paying attention here (still read the whole post because it's entertaining) considering I just brought facts and plot points. None of these were hyperboles. Also, Control (in Gant's body) explicitly said he needed Burnham to gain access to the Sphere data on Discovery. In the bad future vision witnessed by Michael, Control makes a point to kill her last and up close to gloat a "goodbye".
The Doctor, Exocomps (explicitly showcased in LD), various sentient holograms: "HELLOOOOOO?!"
Don't start derailing this discussion in the first place, then. That's almost a bully tactic.
Since you really wanna drag this on and assume things about me (that's rude, BTW): --Memory Alpha
Also, nice change of subject since my reply was about rebuking your statement that none of the synths were sentient. Not whether they were all banned or not (I sure as hell hope the Doc and the exocomps weren't).
I interpret the Synth ban to focus mostly on Androids because of the Mars attack.
There are always exceptions to bans. Otherwise why is Dr. Bashir still in Starfleet after it was revealed that he's an augment? Wouldn't that be automatic grounds for discharge because of the ban on Genetic Engineering that isn't required for life saving procedures? While it wasn't his choice he still is one.
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I don't think you get to say that, if you started it.