Female Gorn

swamarian · September 2020

With the latest episode of Lower Decks, Female Gorn are now canon. Any chance of getting them in game now?
What about wedding gowns?

rattler2 · September 2020

Well... female Gorn were always canon. We just never saw one that we are aware of. The problem with the Gorn is that they are far more reptilian than even the Saurians, so identifying a female may be difficult for most mammalian species. For us mammals, its pretty easy because females tend to be a bit more slender and have rather prominent... resources. Reptiles don't have those, and in most species you really can't tell by looking at them if one is male or female. While it is true that in some species the female is actually much larger, that is not always the case. So honestly unless female Gorn are visually distinct from the males in some way... I don't see a reason to add them in as they would just look the same as the current male Gorn, except maybe being larger. In which case they should probably do something about many of the in game Gorn as we have some pretty big ones running around listed, and probably Role Playing, as males when its entirely possible that that's more of the female Gorn size range.

And before anyone asks... I am unable to watch Lower Decks so I don't know what a female Gorn looks like. I'm just going off my current knowledge of the Gorn and Earth based Reptilian species like Crocodiles.

rattler2 · September 2020

I... honestly find that odd. The Gorn are an extremely reptilian species, and even apparently lay eggs. Having mammalian traits like that... just... feels wrong for some reason. Maybe because it makes them a bit less alien? I don't know. But trying to picture a Gorn with "assets" just... in technical terms I'm coming up with Error messages, and a few 404s. lol

crypticarmsman · September 2020

somtaawkhar wrote: »

rattler2 wrote: »

And before anyone asks... I am unable to watch Lower Decks so I don't know what a female Gorn looks like. I'm just going off my current knowledge of the Gorn and Earth based Reptilian species like Crocodiles.

Lower Decks show that female Gorn have "assets" as mammal species do.

^^^
hey, for all we know, that's just a decorative part of a Gorn wedding gown.

relicthief · September 2020

rattler2 wrote: »

I... honestly find that odd. The Gorn are an extremely reptilian species, and even apparently lay eggs. Having mammalian traits like that... just... feels wrong for some reason. Maybe because it makes them a bit less alien? I don't know. But trying to picture a Gorn with "assets" just... in technical terms I'm coming up with Error messages, and a few 404s. lol

Saurians have "assets" too, in this game even.

rattler2 · September 2020

somtaawkhar wrote: »

Though, some Argonians just lay eggs, while other Argonians are ovoviviparous(where they produce young via eggs, but the eggs hatch in the mother's body instead of being laid in a nest), depending on what kind of Argonian they are. The latter type of Argonians have TRIBBLE, while the former tend to not.

relicthief wrote: »

Saurians have "assets" too, in this game even.

To be fair... we've always seen female Argonians and Saurians with those. So its probably not as hard for me to accept them having "assets", whereas until now we've never actually seen a female Gorn, well... outside of the Kelvin Timeline game but those Gorn were from another galaxy entirely and they didn't have "assets", just more slender bodies for speed.

I guess just the idea of seeing a female Gorn the same way as an Argonian or Saurian after decades of not seeing them and imagining them as closer to actual reptiles...

phoenixc · September 2020

Saurians were not supposed to be true lizards, they're like the tuatara, a sort of halfway between. Or at least that is the information that Paramount gave FASA for their tabletop RP game.

The idea of a mammalian Gorn seems like a joke, though with alien biomes I suppose anything is possible.

psiameese · September 2020

I'm sure the bride was a Human Section 31 agent. Wearing a holo disguise that forgot to flatten her chest. The mystery deepens...

westx211 · September 2020

I don't know, this feels like lower decks doing something randomly because they want to they probably didn't care about how it fits

tasshena · September 2020

If we're really gonna go down this rabbit hole, maybe we should go down into looking at something just as likely/not likely. Since Odo is essentially holding the Dominion together now, I'd wonder if the female Jem'hadar wouldn't be on the way. But then, his relationship is still under repair, currently...

smokebailey · September 2020

rattler2 wrote: »

Well... female Gorn were always canon. We just never saw one that we are aware of. The problem with the Gorn is that they are far more reptilian than even the Saurians, so identifying a female may be difficult for most mammalian species. For us mammals, its pretty easy because females tend to be a bit more slender and have rather prominent... resources. Reptiles don't have those, and in most species you really can't tell by looking at them if one is male or female. While it is true that in some species the female is actually much larger, that is not always the case. So honestly unless female Gorn are visually distinct from the males in some way... I don't see a reason to add them in as they would just look the same as the current male Gorn, except maybe being larger. In which case they should probably do something about many of the in game Gorn as we have some pretty big ones running around listed, and probably Role Playing, as males when its entirely possible that that's more of the female Gorn size range.

And before anyone asks... I am unable to watch Lower Decks so I don't know what a female Gorn looks like. I'm just going off my current knowledge of the Gorn and Earth based Reptilian species like Crocodiles.

Remember....Gorns are ALIENS. They don't have to be how like life on earth is like.

Like Terry Nation once said, that what's nice about making stories is that you can make it anything you want, if the rocks talk on your world, FINE, it's YOUR world, no one else can take that away from you.

Alien lizards can have TRIBBLE. Who knows what actually lives out there.

smokebailey · September 2020

In my own stories and head cannon, my main character, Cassy, is of a species where both the males and females are all women, just different plumbing down there. Cassy is a 'male' of her species, a sorta mirror of my own self, being a transsexual woman.

Heck, Orville made an all male race.

What I am getting at is that an alien species need not be anything to that seen on earth, yo.

rattler2 · September 2020

Technically speaking... Orville wasn't the first. Star Trek has the Jem'Hadar. There are no female Jem'Hadar.

spiritborn · September 2020

I'm pretty sure single gender races predate even that IIRC satyrs were all male snd that's satyrs as in the greco-roman myths

angrytarg · September 2020

The Moclan aren't a single sex species, their females are forcefully altered after birth to resemble the males. Those that are saved from that have to live in hiding or exile.

gaevsman · September 2020

All, including Gorn, where made by the Preservers, so all species have similar caracteristics.. they are reptiles, but must have evolved with some mamal caracteristics

postagepaid · September 2020

Assuming that the preservers took a mammal as the foundation for their blueprint for bipedal races and didn't just find a creature and apply some kind of rapid evolution beamy-techno-thing to speed up the process to where it walked on two legs and splice in the dna needed to copyright the design against other preservers using the same base animal.

The xindi races would seem to indicate that they were willing to use a wide variety of starting creatures including those with an exoskeleton.

psiameese · September 2020

gaevsman wrote: »

All, including Gorn, where made by the Preservers, so all species have similar characteristics.. they are reptiles, but must have evolved with some mammal characteristics

I understand what you're suggesting. I didn't come to that conclusion after after watching TNG's The Chase. At least some of them certainly were the result of seeding by the Preservers. Gorn? I dunno about that. As suggested by Voyager, the Voth naturally - not necessarily Preserver influenced - evolved from dinosaur species of Earth. As the Romulans are an evolved offshoot of the Vulcan, I have assumed the Gorn are an offshoot of the Voth. Who didn't evolve in exactly the same way. I don't think either are mammalian at all.

To the topic, I wish Lower Decks hadn't shown us the tongue-in-cheek Gorn wedding without just a bit more thought.

rattler2 · September 2020

Still... we can't just cite the Preservers for all humanoid life because we have the Xindi, who have insectoid, reptilian, and aquatic. We can cite them for the basic humanoid form (2 arms, 2 legs, upright, ect), but we cannot assume that includes ALL mammalian features, especially certain female features.
Most humanoids are genetically compatable because of the Preservers. I seriously doubt that humans and Gorn are though.

razartrek1 · September 2020

T-Rex females are 30% larger than males and more powerful! Just fun little side fact:)

maina · September 2020

rattler2 wrote: »

Still... we can't just cite the Preservers for all humanoid life because we have the Xindi, who have insectoid, reptilian, and aquatic. We can cite them for the basic humanoid form (2 arms, 2 legs, upright, ect), but we cannot assume that includes ALL mammalian features, especially certain female features.
Most humanoids are genetically compatable because of the Preservers. I seriously doubt that humans and Gorn are though.

This is not against you or Soms post above.

The preservers as the "ancient aliens" that seeded life is the stupidest thing ever done in Trek. (I use the term stupid, to avoid 2 dozen occurrences of the word "Tribble"). Why you ask? (or don't ask, whatever). Let's replace a "deity" with aliens, that way all of mankind's security beliefs are still valid, so now instead of the human race being a product of nature, that uplifted itself to the current state, being special in it's accomplishments, we are again just the creation of something grander, more noble than us. The preservers get to be special, we are just dust formed at somethings will, and not just us, Vulcans aren't special they are just another hybrid created by the preservers.

I had higher hopes for Trek at the time, but the whole Ancient Alien thing, is some TRIBBLE writers way of keeping mankind under the shadow of a greater (works in mysterious ways) science fiction equivalent of "God".

The preservers as our security blanket is not my Trek, canon be damned.

legendarylycan · September 2020

you know, the ironic thing is, with the non-existence of existing complex extraterrestrial life in reality thanks to the fermi paradox, alien life will come about because of humanity altering itself to fit alien worlds - or just for the hell of it - over the course of millions of years as we spread out across the universe

so humanity will be the ancients/preservers/alterans/xel'naga/whatever of our universe, not the result of any precursor species like sci-fi popularly portrays

phoenixc · September 2020

maina wrote: »

rattler2 wrote: »

Still... we can't just cite the Preservers for all humanoid life because we have the Xindi, who have insectoid, reptilian, and aquatic. We can cite them for the basic humanoid form (2 arms, 2 legs, upright, ect), but we cannot assume that includes ALL mammalian features, especially certain female features.
Most humanoids are genetically compatable because of the Preservers. I seriously doubt that humans and Gorn are though.

This is not against you or Soms post above.

The preservers as the "ancient aliens" that seeded life is the stupidest thing ever done in Trek. (I use the term stupid, to avoid 2 dozen occurrences of the word "Tribble"). Why you ask? (or don't ask, whatever). Let's replace a "deity" with aliens, that way all of mankind's security beliefs are still valid, so now instead of the human race being a product of nature, that uplifted itself to the current state, being special in it's accomplishments, we are again just the creation of something grander, more noble than us. The preservers get to be special, we are just dust formed at somethings will, and not just us, Vulcans aren't special they are just another hybrid created by the preservers.

I had higher hopes for Trek at the time, but the whole Ancient Alien thing, is some TRIBBLE writers way of keeping mankind under the shadow of a greater (works in mysterious ways) science fiction equivalent of "God".

The preservers as our security blanket is not my Trek, canon be damned.

Actually the Preservers (which TNG mangled but that is another matter) don't detract from human or any of the other race's accomplishments. All it did was to nudge the direction of evolution towards a certain shared template, it did not do the uplifting itself or everything on earth and the other seeded planets it would be intelligent like some Disney cartoon run amok.

In order for it to work as presented the path to intelligence is still dependent on the environment and initially instinctive decisions just like it would have without the seeded genetic precursors.

fallenkezef · September 2020

This is why I hate the way scifi and fantasy is made so stupidly sexist.

Reptiles do not have mammary glands because they are egg laying species who's young pop out of the egg weaned and ready to eat solid food.

smokebailey · September 2020

shadowfang240 wrote: »

you know, the ironic thing is, with the non-existence of existing complex extraterrestrial life in reality thanks to the fermi paradox, alien life will come about because of humanity altering itself to fit alien worlds - or just for the hell of it - over the course of millions of years as we spread out across the universe

so humanity will be the ancients/preservers/alterans/xel'naga/whatever of our universe, not the result of any precursor species like sci-fi popularly portrays

With the odd things I see in the sky, moving in ways nothing we got can do, and being chased by military aircraft, I seen one, not long ago, playing hide and seek with the air force, disappearing when they got close ,and appearing once the fly boys left, among other stuff I seen....I'd say a bit late for that. Someone(s) beat us to the punch.

swamarian · September 2020

fallenkezef#4581 wrote: »

This is why I hate the way scifi and fantasy is made so stupidly sexist.

Reptiles do not have mammary glands because they are egg laying species who's young pop out of the egg weaned and ready to eat solid food.

They're not reptiles, since they're not descended from Earth animals. The fact that Humans, Vulcans and Klingons can interbreed at all means that all bets are off. (Even with the Preservers, there's no guarantee that life on other planets would encode proteins the same way as it's done on Earth. Not all species on Earth do it the same way.)

alyxvixen · September 2020

Before Lower Decks muddied the waters on this, the canon on female Gorn was they looked pretty much like a male Gorn, just bigger. So we might actually have female Gorn walking around First City in game as there's several that are bigger than the character generator allows players to be.

rattler2 · September 2020

alyxvixen#3895 wrote: »

Before Lower Decks muddied the waters on this, the canon on female Gorn was they looked pretty much like a male Gorn, just bigger. So we might actually have female Gorn walking around First City in game as there's several that are bigger than the character generator allows players to be.

This.
Also I'm not sure how much influence the Preservers had with the development of the Tholians either. That species is one of the MOST alien in Trek. Could argue Hortas, but I'm kinda leaning towards species of the space fairing kind right now. Yes Hortas are sentient, but we don't see Horta ships. *shrug* That's a bit of a gray area I think.

Female Gorn

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