No, you imply that the Borg should be able to catch on. Judging from the development curves of both cultures in the shows we have zero indication that they do and that is what is reflected so well in STO.
Ever since Wolf 359 the Borg were out smarted by Starfleet in every engagement one way or the other. On most occasions it were the actions of individuals causing the defeat of Borg and that is EXACTLY what makes the immersion so perfect in STO.
See, in game we can’t just one shot them as newbes when we begin to play. We must start the INVESTIGATION first! We must learn, study and explore what’s available, we have to min max our ships and after a long journey with lots of practise we can finaly succeed. Not before! But then two shots and a cube is gone, as it should be in the 25th century!
From an RP perspective it is the LORE GIVEN RIGHT to be able to kill the Borg as easily as we can in STO *IF* we have become good enough to do so. If we still can’t after a year or two we are both lousy RPer as well as video-gamer.
In any case we are not Starfleet material and should seriously consider pursuing some other interests.
You failed to read that correctly. I'm not saying that they should catch on, but catch up. Again, if "we" develop better tech, then they capture a ship with that tech, they now have that tech to upgrade their fleet with. It's not a matter of "investigating" that tech to learn how to counter it or even improve it. They simply have it. So, again, they should never be that far behind as to be that easily beaten.
All of that aside, it is not good gameplay design to have end game content that is so easy as to be solo'd without effort. RP has nothing to do with it here.
No, I did not fail to read it correctly. You just keep on repeating how things should work lore wise in your mind set, not as it has been clearly shown on multiple occasions in the shows. Because of that things have been ported into to Star Trek Online the way they are. Anything else is nothing but wishful thinking on your part.
As far as gameplay aspects are concerned we can gladly discuss it at another time in another thread as you obviously failed to realize that this thread happens to be about role play and immersion.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
No, you imply that the Borg should be able to catch on. Judging from the development curves of both cultures in the shows we have zero indication that they do and that is what is reflected so well in STO.
Ever since Wolf 359 the Borg were out smarted by Starfleet in every engagement one way or the other. On most occasions it were the actions of individuals causing the defeat of Borg and that is EXACTLY what makes the immersion so perfect in STO.
See, in game we can’t just one shot them as newbes when we begin to play. We must start the INVESTIGATION first! We must learn, study and explore what’s available, we have to min max our ships and after a long journey with lots of practise we can finaly succeed. Not before! But then two shots and a cube is gone, as it should be in the 25th century!
From an RP perspective it is the LORE GIVEN RIGHT to be able to kill the Borg as easily as we can in STO *IF* we have become good enough to do so. If we still can’t after a year or two we are both lousy RPer as well as video-gamer.
In any case we are not Starfleet material and should seriously consider pursuing some other interests.
You failed to read that correctly. I'm not saying that they should catch on, but catch up. Again, if "we" develop better tech, then they capture a ship with that tech, they now have that tech to upgrade their fleet with. It's not a matter of "investigating" that tech to learn how to counter it or even improve it. They simply have it. So, again, they should never be that far behind as to be that easily beaten.
All of that aside, it is not good gameplay design to have end game content that is so easy as to be solo'd without effort. RP has nothing to do with it here.
No, I did not fail to read it correctly. You just keep on repeating how things should work lore wise in your mind set, not as it has been clearly shown on multiple occasions in the shows. Because of that things have been ported into to Star Trek Online the way they are. Anything else is nothing but wishful thinking on your part.
As far as gameplay aspects are concerned we can gladly discuss it at another time in another thread as you obviously failed to realize that this thread happens to be about role play and immersion.
From an RP stand point:
Technologically speaking, due to their assimilation of technology, they should not be so far behind as to allow a single, small ship to sit there and blow away entire fleets or solo a Unimatrix with ease. I can certainly see and agree to "us" having the better tech, but it's not going to be that many leaps and bounds ahead due to the assimilation (unless a way is found to prevent them from assimilating anymore).
Tactics wise, yes, definitely "we're" better. That is where we should be prevailing over the borg is in tactics. Hitting a couple of abilities and boom - there goes the borg - is not tactics, though. A team working in concert with each other, or (for a single ship) showing strategy in pulling out a few ships at a time or hit and run or lure to traps or similar is tactics.
No, you imply that the Borg should be able to catch on. Judging from the development curves of both cultures in the shows we have zero indication that they do and that is what is reflected so well in STO.
Ever since Wolf 359 the Borg were out smarted by Starfleet in every engagement one way or the other. On most occasions it were the actions of individuals causing the defeat of Borg and that is EXACTLY what makes the immersion so perfect in STO.
See, in game we can’t just one shot them as newbes when we begin to play. We must start the INVESTIGATION first! We must learn, study and explore what’s available, we have to min max our ships and after a long journey with lots of practise we can finaly succeed. Not before! But then two shots and a cube is gone, as it should be in the 25th century!
From an RP perspective it is the LORE GIVEN RIGHT to be able to kill the Borg as easily as we can in STO *IF* we have become good enough to do so. If we still can’t after a year or two we are both lousy RPer as well as video-gamer.
In any case we are not Starfleet material and should seriously consider pursuing some other interests.
You failed to read that correctly. I'm not saying that they should catch on, but catch up. Again, if "we" develop better tech, then they capture a ship with that tech, they now have that tech to upgrade their fleet with. It's not a matter of "investigating" that tech to learn how to counter it or even improve it. They simply have it. So, again, they should never be that far behind as to be that easily beaten.
All of that aside, it is not good gameplay design to have end game content that is so easy as to be solo'd without effort. RP has nothing to do with it here.
No, I did not fail to read it correctly. You just keep on repeating how things should work lore wise in your mind set, not as it has been clearly shown on multiple occasions in the shows. Because of that things have been ported into to Star Trek Online the way they are. Anything else is nothing but wishful thinking on your part.
As far as gameplay aspects are concerned we can gladly discuss it at another time in another thread as you obviously failed to realize that this thread happens to be about role play and immersion.
From an RP stand point:
Technologically speaking, due to their assimilation of technology, they should not be so far behind as to allow a single, small ship to sit there and blow away entire fleets or solo a Unimatrix with ease. I can certainly see and agree to "us" having the better tech, but it's not going to be that many leaps and bounds ahead due to the assimilation (unless a way is found to prevent them from assimilating anymore).
Tactics wise, yes, definitely "we're" better. That is where we should be prevailing over the borg is in tactics. Hitting a couple of abilities and boom - there goes the borg - is not tactics, though. A team working in concert with each other, or (for a single ship) showing strategy in pulling out a few ships at a time or hit and run or lure to traps or similar is tactics.
The thing is, Borg technology is not "behind" so simply assimilating the innovative but lower tech solutions the Alliance uses against them would not do them much good. The Borg suffer from the ultimate case of group think, and simply aping the things the Alliance does against them back at the Alliance without actually understanding it (because they are not flexible enough to see it in more than just one way) would not do much good. That is especially true of the "zombie" Borg that has been the norm since "First Contact".
What has happened is that the Alliance has figured out the weaknesses of the Borg and take advantage of them (often the solution involves hacking their collective network in some way or another and tricking them to sleep or otherwise hampering their effectiveness). In the game it has to be very abstracted, in this case just pushing buttons. Even things like combat patterns are simple button presses.
That is not to say that the current system is perfect or whatever, personally I think they could have played up the show mechanics a little more and made the Borg adapt to weapon types more but be more vulnerable to 'software' attacks like various controls/placates and virus sabotage powers, but that would probably have had the TAC people up in arms and marching around the forums with torches and pitchforks. It would also probably significantly complicate even PvE balancing.
The borg have a degree of adaption capability but it worked well for the early attempts against the borg like limited remodulation (as "we" didn't have an inside source into how the collective worked) that changed with Picard getting unassimilated as he could provide limited inside as to how borg tech worked. Starfleet (and by extension Klingons and Romulans) got even more information on how Borg tech worked when 7 of 9 returned to Earth as the memories of her time in the collective weren't buried inside her head and she could freely access them.
Now the Borg only got their tech superiority to fall back on and their tactical ability is lacking to say the least. Also we got to remember that Borg shields aren't a magical "your weapons won't work on me" wards but a piece of technology that can be overwhelmed with sufficient firepower (in fact Borg ground shields could be partially overwhelmed with 2150s phase pistols, slowing the rate of adaptions though not preventing it completely). The way the Borg adapt is essentially to "tune in" their defenses against a specific threat but even fully "tuned in" they can do only so much and Starfleet has learned how to take advantage of that.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
And the Borg have yet to understand that primitive projectiles and blades are actually a threat to them as well. Because its so backwards the Borg would never consider it a threat.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
There are ways to side-step the whole "we're op against the Borg" thing. Just group up with other folks you RP with, run a private TFO, and take in low-mark weaponry. That literally solves every problem.
There are ways to side-step the whole "we're op against the Borg" thing. Just group up with other folks you RP with, run a private TFO, and take in low-mark weaponry. That literally solves every problem.
Some people around here don't want to take any steps to solve their own problems. It's far more acceptable to demand wide spread sweeping changes upon everyone else to fit their personal narrative.
[Edit] - Changed "People around here" to "Some people around here." It's certainly not everyone.
Post edited by seaofsorrows on
Insert witty signature line here.
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
People around here don't want to take any steps to solve their own problems. It's far more acceptable to demand wide spread sweeping changes upon everyone else to fit their personal narrative.
Unfortunately yes... I've seen it many times over the years.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
No, you imply that the Borg should be able to catch on. Judging from the development curves of both cultures in the shows we have zero indication that they do and that is what is reflected so well in STO.
Ever since Wolf 359 the Borg were out smarted by Starfleet in every engagement one way or the other. On most occasions it were the actions of individuals causing the defeat of Borg and that is EXACTLY what makes the immersion so perfect in STO.
See, in game we can’t just one shot them as newbes when we begin to play. We must start the INVESTIGATION first! We must learn, study and explore what’s available, we have to min max our ships and after a long journey with lots of practise we can finaly succeed. Not before! But then two shots and a cube is gone, as it should be in the 25th century!
From an RP perspective it is the LORE GIVEN RIGHT to be able to kill the Borg as easily as we can in STO *IF* we have become good enough to do so. If we still can’t after a year or two we are both lousy RPer as well as video-gamer.
In any case we are not Starfleet material and should seriously consider pursuing some other interests.
You failed to read that correctly. I'm not saying that they should catch on, but catch up. Again, if "we" develop better tech, then they capture a ship with that tech, they now have that tech to upgrade their fleet with. It's not a matter of "investigating" that tech to learn how to counter it or even improve it. They simply have it. So, again, they should never be that far behind as to be that easily beaten.
All of that aside, it is not good gameplay design to have end game content that is so easy as to be solo'd without effort. RP has nothing to do with it here.
No, I did not fail to read it correctly. You just keep on repeating how things should work lore wise in your mind set, not as it has been clearly shown on multiple occasions in the shows. Because of that things have been ported into to Star Trek Online the way they are. Anything else is nothing but wishful thinking on your part.
As far as gameplay aspects are concerned we can gladly discuss it at another time in another thread as you obviously failed to realize that this thread happens to be about role play and immersion.
From an RP stand point:
Technologically speaking, due to their assimilation of technology, they should not be so far behind as to allow a single, small ship to sit there and blow away entire fleets or solo a Unimatrix with ease. I can certainly see and agree to "us" having the better tech, but it's not going to be that many leaps and bounds ahead due to the assimilation (unless a way is found to prevent them from assimilating anymore).
Tactics wise, yes, definitely "we're" better. That is where we should be prevailing over the borg is in tactics. Hitting a couple of abilities and boom - there goes the borg - is not tactics, though. A team working in concert with each other, or (for a single ship) showing strategy in pulling out a few ships at a time or hit and run or lure to traps or similar is tactics.
I do not think we are getting anywhere as you keep on interpreting technology as some form of advantage for the Borg here, it’s not. It’s even their big disadvantage!
Every time an engagement took place it was not technology but rather some new “thing” to be understood about the enemy which then led to a rather simple, backward, natural - one might even call it cheap - solution to deal with the Borg. Let it be by:
- Inserting a command into the system that would put them to sleep
- Using a holographic 300 year old Tommy Gun to kill drones that have adapted to the techno fubar
- Letting yourself be assimilated contracting a virus to finish off an entire unimatrix (lol).
To be authentic for us RPer STO as a game had to come up with a way reflect that and they did it perfectly. We also learn about the game and its enemies first, how it works, which stuff is available, which stuff is useful, what new items are released in the latest lock box that we should bring. We also team up with likeminded players in the league making plans, forming strategies, passing on knowledge. Man, we even follow a two years career plan with the endeavours system to have it all appear authentic and professional. Ad all this up and only then we can bring in the easy, you may call it cheap, solution as well. Let it be by:
- Pressing space bar.
It is perfectly alright!
Since you keep on edging towards game mechanics I really invite you to make a new thread for it. I’m a seasoned veteran there and already have a dozen arguments prepared that will show you that you are as wrong with your claims there as you are as far as Borg lore from the shows is concerned.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
There are ways to side-step the whole "we're op against the Borg" thing. Just group up with other folks you RP with, run a private TFO, and take in low-mark weaponry. That literally solves every problem.
Some people around here don't want to take any steps to solve their own problems. It's far more acceptable to demand wide spread sweeping changes upon everyone else to fit their personal narrative.
[Edit] - Changed "People around here" to "Some people around here." It's certainly not everyone.
Lol yea. That's exactly it!!!
What’s make this thread break new ground is that some players seem to want to manufacture conditions making it all an RPer vs. DPSer argument. It is not to the slightest!
I mean what am I supposed to made believe here?
“Hello, I’m Pete. I want to play Dahar Master in STO but all those mean other Klingons kill my enemies faster than I can. This hurts my immersion.”
“Yea well sorry to bring it to you Pete but as you might imagine you have to do some good in order to become a Dahar master. You know the dudes in the shows did that, perhaps you might consider giving it a try in STO as well before you pretend to play as one?”
Some of the best DPSer I have seen RP. Some of the best RPer in STO have a some serious DPS under their belt. This is not an either side kills the immersion of the other.
Like always it’s just a matter of how good you are at something! If its only enough to RP as Pakled peeps should at least be big enough to admit it.
Post edited by peterconnorfirst on
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
No, you imply that the Borg should be able to catch on. Judging from the development curves of both cultures in the shows we have zero indication that they do and that is what is reflected so well in STO.
Ever since Wolf 359 the Borg were out smarted by Starfleet in every engagement one way or the other. On most occasions it were the actions of individuals causing the defeat of Borg and that is EXACTLY what makes the immersion so perfect in STO.
See, in game we can’t just one shot them as newbes when we begin to play. We must start the INVESTIGATION first! We must learn, study and explore what’s available, we have to min max our ships and after a long journey with lots of practise we can finaly succeed. Not before! But then two shots and a cube is gone, as it should be in the 25th century!
From an RP perspective it is the LORE GIVEN RIGHT to be able to kill the Borg as easily as we can in STO *IF* we have become good enough to do so. If we still can’t after a year or two we are both lousy RPer as well as video-gamer.
In any case we are not Starfleet material and should seriously consider pursuing some other interests.
You failed to read that correctly. I'm not saying that they should catch on, but catch up. Again, if "we" develop better tech, then they capture a ship with that tech, they now have that tech to upgrade their fleet with. It's not a matter of "investigating" that tech to learn how to counter it or even improve it. They simply have it. So, again, they should never be that far behind as to be that easily beaten.
All of that aside, it is not good gameplay design to have end game content that is so easy as to be solo'd without effort. RP has nothing to do with it here.
No, I did not fail to read it correctly. You just keep on repeating how things should work lore wise in your mind set, not as it has been clearly shown on multiple occasions in the shows. Because of that things have been ported into to Star Trek Online the way they are. Anything else is nothing but wishful thinking on your part.
As far as gameplay aspects are concerned we can gladly discuss it at another time in another thread as you obviously failed to realize that this thread happens to be about role play and immersion.
From an RP stand point:
Technologically speaking, due to their assimilation of technology, they should not be so far behind as to allow a single, small ship to sit there and blow away entire fleets or solo a Unimatrix with ease. I can certainly see and agree to "us" having the better tech, but it's not going to be that many leaps and bounds ahead due to the assimilation (unless a way is found to prevent them from assimilating anymore).
Tactics wise, yes, definitely "we're" better. That is where we should be prevailing over the borg is in tactics. Hitting a couple of abilities and boom - there goes the borg - is not tactics, though. A team working in concert with each other, or (for a single ship) showing strategy in pulling out a few ships at a time or hit and run or lure to traps or similar is tactics.
I do not think we are getting anywhere as you keep on interpreting technology as some form of advantage for the Borg here, it’s not. It’s even their big disadvantage!
Every time an engagement took place it was not technology but rather some new “thing” to be understood about the enemy which then led to a rather simple, backward, natural - one might even call it cheap - solution to deal with the Borg. Let it be by:
- Inserting a command into the system that would put them to sleep
- Using a holographic 300 year old Tommy Gun to kill drones that have adapted to the techno fubar
- Letting yourself be assimilated contracting a virus to finish off an entire unimatrix (lol).
To be authentic for us RPer STO as a game had to come up with a way reflect that and they did it perfectly. We also learn about the game and its enemies first, how it works, which stuff is available, which stuff is useful, what new items are released in the latest lock box that we should bring. We also team up with likeminded players in the league making plans, forming strategies, passing on knowledge. Man, we even follow a two years career plan with the endeavours system to have it all appear authentic and professional. Ad all this up and only then we can bring in the easy, you may call it cheap, solution as well. Let it be by:
- Pressing space bar.
It is perfectly alright!
Since you keep on edging towards game mechanics I really invite you to make a new thread for it. I’m a seasoned veteran there and already have a dozen arguments prepared that show you that you are as wrong with your claims there as you are as far as Borg lore from the shows are concerned.
I'd say technology is both an advantage and a disadvantage of the Borg, their higher tech level allows for more powerful ships and weapons (all other things being equal borg ships are still more powerful then player faction ships), however like Germany in WWII the Borg are dependent on that edge they got over others (technological in case of the Borg, tactical and technological in case of Germany).
That's what people seem to forget the Borg Collective hasn't been this impossible to defeat force of nature since the first episode, while Voyager was where most of it did happen, the first reduction of Borg power happened in "Best of both worlds" where it came possible for the Federation to beat the Borg.
The Collective's dependency on their technological edge and their inability to truly invent makes it so that should starfleet figure out a weakness in said tech it would be lethal to the Borg (the technological edge isn't great enough to be insurmountable).
I do not think we are getting anywhere as you keep on interpreting technology as some form of advantage for the Borg here, it’s not. It’s even their big disadvantage!
No, that's not what I'm saying.
But this is pointless to discuss further. We're actually, in part, going back and forth on opinions, much like a political debate. And condescending posts have already started as well.
to be fair...whatever data they managed to get from admiral janeway was probably lost in the subsequent chaos caused by the pathogen she was infected with - it was maybe 5 minutes after assimilation that the queen died, the unicomplex either exploded or self-destructed and their entire transwarp network went BOOM!
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Lt. Philip J. Minns
0
rattler2Member, Star Trek Online ModeratorPosts: 58,669Community Moderator
Also... consider how the Borg learn. They literally cannot learn unless they assimilate it. That is why they got their Collective A** kicked by the Undine. A species they could NOT assimilate. They knew NOTHING of them other than where they live. There was a scene of a Drone repeatedly trying to assimilate some kind of Undine matter, only to fail and try again. The Genetic Structure of the Undine was so foreign that Assimilation was impossible back in the 2370s.
That's why the Borg were willing to "Negotiate" with Voyager. Because the Borg couldn't assimilate the Undine, therefor could not learn about them. Voyager could, and could develop a countermeasure. Once Voyager's usefulness was over, they'd assimilate Voyager and gain the knowledge to fight the Undine.
They just didnt expect Voyager to expect a double cross and have a plan of their own in place.
I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite colored text = mod mode
it's very telling that chevy chase has such a unique appearance that i recognized him immediately in that clip's preview image - which i have literally never done for ANY other actor, ever
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch." "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
Passion and Serenity are one.
I gain power by understanding both.
In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
The Force is united within me.
My only issue with the Borg in STO is that, so far as we can tell, they've paid little or no attention to the Dyson sphere that appeared on their proverbial doorstep. Even more baffling considering their obsession with Omega molecules.
If nothing else, they should be on the rotation with the Udine and the Voth in the ship combat zone. Maybe an invasion style event like CoH used to do with the Phalanx (it's been years, I think that's what the alien invaders were called...) on the ground combat zone.
Comments
No, I did not fail to read it correctly. You just keep on repeating how things should work lore wise in your mind set, not as it has been clearly shown on multiple occasions in the shows. Because of that things have been ported into to Star Trek Online the way they are. Anything else is nothing but wishful thinking on your part.
As far as gameplay aspects are concerned we can gladly discuss it at another time in another thread as you obviously failed to realize that this thread happens to be about role play and immersion.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
From an RP stand point:
Technologically speaking, due to their assimilation of technology, they should not be so far behind as to allow a single, small ship to sit there and blow away entire fleets or solo a Unimatrix with ease. I can certainly see and agree to "us" having the better tech, but it's not going to be that many leaps and bounds ahead due to the assimilation (unless a way is found to prevent them from assimilating anymore).
Tactics wise, yes, definitely "we're" better. That is where we should be prevailing over the borg is in tactics. Hitting a couple of abilities and boom - there goes the borg - is not tactics, though. A team working in concert with each other, or (for a single ship) showing strategy in pulling out a few ships at a time or hit and run or lure to traps or similar is tactics.
The thing is, Borg technology is not "behind" so simply assimilating the innovative but lower tech solutions the Alliance uses against them would not do them much good. The Borg suffer from the ultimate case of group think, and simply aping the things the Alliance does against them back at the Alliance without actually understanding it (because they are not flexible enough to see it in more than just one way) would not do much good. That is especially true of the "zombie" Borg that has been the norm since "First Contact".
What has happened is that the Alliance has figured out the weaknesses of the Borg and take advantage of them (often the solution involves hacking their collective network in some way or another and tricking them to sleep or otherwise hampering their effectiveness). In the game it has to be very abstracted, in this case just pushing buttons. Even things like combat patterns are simple button presses.
That is not to say that the current system is perfect or whatever, personally I think they could have played up the show mechanics a little more and made the Borg adapt to weapon types more but be more vulnerable to 'software' attacks like various controls/placates and virus sabotage powers, but that would probably have had the TAC people up in arms and marching around the forums with torches and pitchforks. It would also probably significantly complicate even PvE balancing.
Now the Borg only got their tech superiority to fall back on and their tactical ability is lacking to say the least. Also we got to remember that Borg shields aren't a magical "your weapons won't work on me" wards but a piece of technology that can be overwhelmed with sufficient firepower (in fact Borg ground shields could be partially overwhelmed with 2150s phase pistols, slowing the rate of adaptions though not preventing it completely). The way the Borg adapt is essentially to "tune in" their defenses against a specific threat but even fully "tuned in" they can do only so much and Starfleet has learned how to take advantage of that.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
Some people around here don't want to take any steps to solve their own problems. It's far more acceptable to demand wide spread sweeping changes upon everyone else to fit their personal narrative.
[Edit] - Changed "People around here" to "Some people around here." It's certainly not everyone.
Unfortunately yes... I've seen it many times over the years.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I do not think we are getting anywhere as you keep on interpreting technology as some form of advantage for the Borg here, it’s not. It’s even their big disadvantage!
Every time an engagement took place it was not technology but rather some new “thing” to be understood about the enemy which then led to a rather simple, backward, natural - one might even call it cheap - solution to deal with the Borg. Let it be by:
- Inserting a command into the system that would put them to sleep
- Using a holographic 300 year old Tommy Gun to kill drones that have adapted to the techno fubar
- Letting yourself be assimilated contracting a virus to finish off an entire unimatrix (lol).
To be authentic for us RPer STO as a game had to come up with a way reflect that and they did it perfectly. We also learn about the game and its enemies first, how it works, which stuff is available, which stuff is useful, what new items are released in the latest lock box that we should bring. We also team up with likeminded players in the league making plans, forming strategies, passing on knowledge. Man, we even follow a two years career plan with the endeavours system to have it all appear authentic and professional. Ad all this up and only then we can bring in the easy, you may call it cheap, solution as well. Let it be by:
- Pressing space bar.
It is perfectly alright!
Since you keep on edging towards game mechanics I really invite you to make a new thread for it. I’m a seasoned veteran there and already have a dozen arguments prepared that will show you that you are as wrong with your claims there as you are as far as Borg lore from the shows is concerned.
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Lol yea. That's exactly it!!!
What’s make this thread break new ground is that some players seem to want to manufacture conditions making it all an RPer vs. DPSer argument. It is not to the slightest!
I mean what am I supposed to made believe here?
“Hello, I’m Pete. I want to play Dahar Master in STO but all those mean other Klingons kill my enemies faster than I can. This hurts my immersion.”
“Yea well sorry to bring it to you Pete but as you might imagine you have to do some good in order to become a Dahar master. You know the dudes in the shows did that, perhaps you might consider giving it a try in STO as well before you pretend to play as one?”
Some of the best DPSer I have seen RP. Some of the best RPer in STO have a some serious DPS under their belt. This is not an either side kills the immersion of the other.
Like always it’s just a matter of how good you are at something! If its only enough to RP as Pakled peeps should at least be big enough to admit it.
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I'd say technology is both an advantage and a disadvantage of the Borg, their higher tech level allows for more powerful ships and weapons (all other things being equal borg ships are still more powerful then player faction ships), however like Germany in WWII the Borg are dependent on that edge they got over others (technological in case of the Borg, tactical and technological in case of Germany).
That's what people seem to forget the Borg Collective hasn't been this impossible to defeat force of nature since the first episode, while Voyager was where most of it did happen, the first reduction of Borg power happened in "Best of both worlds" where it came possible for the Federation to beat the Borg.
The Collective's dependency on their technological edge and their inability to truly invent makes it so that should starfleet figure out a weakness in said tech it would be lethal to the Borg (the technological edge isn't great enough to be insurmountable).
No, that's not what I'm saying.
But this is pointless to discuss further. We're actually, in part, going back and forth on opinions, much like a political debate. And condescending posts have already started as well.
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
That's why the Borg were willing to "Negotiate" with Voyager. Because the Borg couldn't assimilate the Undine, therefor could not learn about them. Voyager could, and could develop a countermeasure. Once Voyager's usefulness was over, they'd assimilate Voyager and gain the knowledge to fight the Undine.
They just didnt expect Voyager to expect a double cross and have a plan of their own in place.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
If nothing else, they should be on the rotation with the Udine and the Voth in the ship combat zone.