test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Lack of immersion for role players in certain missions.
c0mp
Member Posts: 71 Arc User
I have just created a new TOS character for the sole reason of role playing with friends, but when I got to the mission 'Diplomatic Orders' my role playing immersion was ruined by a couple of things.
Firstly the shuttle interior is the same even if you fly a TOS shuttle,
Secondly, my character is flying TOS era ships only so why is there a TNG era shuttle instead of my TOS era shuttle I have equipped?
I am sure there are more instances throughout the game, I just can't think of any more at the moment.
Now I am aware there are plenty of ongoing bugs and issues that need to be addressed first, but please Devs, spare a thought for those of us who role play ingame. These slight issues can really ruin the experience for us.
Thanks for listening.
Firstly the shuttle interior is the same even if you fly a TOS shuttle,
Secondly, my character is flying TOS era ships only so why is there a TNG era shuttle instead of my TOS era shuttle I have equipped?
I am sure there are more instances throughout the game, I just can't think of any more at the moment.
Now I am aware there are plenty of ongoing bugs and issues that need to be addressed first, but please Devs, spare a thought for those of us who role play ingame. These slight issues can really ruin the experience for us.
Thanks for listening.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
0
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Taking down a cube in 1, 2 shots, for example?
Sure...
But not really.
They just get less sober.
Unfortunately this is not a realistic request because the mission cannot "know" what type of shuttle the person playing it has equipped. While you may have a TOS shuttle equipped, someone else who ALSO started a TOS character may have swapped out to a different type of shuttle. So no, the mission cannot "generate" a shuttle map interior on the fly based on the type of shuttle you have equipped.
Note: I'm not saying there is anything wrong with wanting this or wishing it could be different, simply explaining why it isn't realistic from a technical point of view.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
As someone who is exclusively into RP in STO as well I strongly disagree with you.
Ever since the TNG episode Best of Both Worlds the Borg as a race and as adversaries have more and more degraded to the role of victims in Star Trek.
Engagements between Starfleet and the Collective that started as a disaster at Wolf 359 became already a reasonable fight in First Contact and was nothing to even break into sweat over by the time Voyager’s finale Endgame takes place…
Now if we ad even more years to Federation evolution and development when STO takes place in 2410 anything more than one or two shots to take down a cube would kill the immersion.
When fighting the Borg things in STO are exactly as they should be. The DEVs captured it perfectly from an RP perspective. I love it.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
I know to some these issues may seem stupid but to the role playing community these are glaring issues that can quite frankly ruin a game for us all. Like when I first started playing on PC I was able to wander around my ship interior, and visit my friends ships. We held many a vigil for fellow fleet members who were MIA in the Middle East in the various versions of Ten Forward. Now I have moved to console (due to illness and not being able to manage the keybinds) I find I can only visit bridges. of my friends.
Most casual players will never visit their ship interiors, but us role players do on a regular basis, and it is immersion breaking when you cannot leave the bridge, or when you travel to a shuttle interior only to find they are all EXACTLY the same, no matter what shuttle you have equipped.
Again I implore the Devs please make some shuttle interiors, and allow console players to have full access to the ship interior.
More importantly RPing isn't becoming a member of a hivemind, each person has their own idea of what is proper, I'm for example quite adamant that my characters have the "correct" uniform for the mission (and sometimes part of a mission) even though the only person who will ever see this is me and as far the game itself is conserned my characters could be in their birthday suits and it wouldn't matter one bit.
EDIT:unless you're RPing as Borg Drone, not an ex-drone but still a member of the Collective Drone with no will of their own, then you would be a member of a hivemind.
True. I often wonder why they do not just call all the players "captain" since it is not just a rank, it is also a title people of various ranks who command ships are called by instead of their actual rank (just like "skipper" is for boats).
Then there is a problem with all those Captains.
'There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy'.
And don't call me Shirley!!
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I do have to ask, but is it not logical for the borg to continue to advance their tech as well? All it would take is one of the more advanced starfleet vessels to fall to the borg and they'd be able to assimilate that technology into their own and upgrade all of their ships.
The things is, the Borg are not at all creative, they just copy things that already exist. That is especially true with the "movie" Borg and their queen being the only one with any real individuality and self-direction. It means that (odd as it sounds), once the alpha/beta quadrants discovered an effective counter for the technology the Borg use they cannot in turn use that counter tech to discover a way to counter the counter.
Instead, the Borg would have to run across some other civilization that already has the tech they need (though that civilization may not use it in quite that way, the Borg can engineer and adapt things well enough in a sort of limited way, it is imagination that they lack that hogties them from inventing on their own).
Technically they have. The problem is that the Borg don't innovate at all. They only reactively advance. We develop, they steal and adapt. The main threat the Borg pose now honestly, is sheer numbers. Lore wise the Borg aren't the threat they used to be to the Alpha Quadrant powers because of advances in technology and tactics. The Borg don't use tactics. It is brute force. Something that most of the Galactic powers now use to their advantage.
And then there is the issue of Borg vs older tech. The Borg only want the most advanced tech, and will develop countermeasures to those advanced techs. I don't know if they're even capable of considering something like an old Tommy Gun as a theat because who even USES a projectile weapon anymore? Its ancient! Its not even viable anymore!
And yet... blades and projectiles seem to be the absolute best weapon to use against Drones. Why? Because they're actually "backwards" tech wise. Why bother assimilating that when it doesn't contribute to the Collective's advancement?
Closest example I can come up with is how the Asgard in Stargate struggled against the Replicators. The Asgard are super advanced, super smart. Yet... they can't think of simple, "dumb" solutions. Its always gotta be more advanced. Its gotta be cutting edge. And yet... every time the Asgard created a new weapon... it got eaten by the Replicators and they get more advanced Replicators. Meanwhile, Tau'ri technology is not even worth Replicators time. They IGNORED Prometheus because she was less advanced than even the closest Asgard equivelent. Tau'ri projectile weapons, while less advanced than even a Goa'uld Staff weapon, were actually SUPER effective against the Replicators. The only time Replicators bothered eating anything Tau'ri, was when they had no other choice. And even then... any Replicators created from Tau'ri materials... were not as advanced because Replicators personify the phrase "You are what you eat".
The Borg are the same way. 99% of the time, unless it can contribute to the advancement of the Collective, it is ignored. The Kazon are the only species the Borg will REFUSE to assimilate, because they will not contribute to the Collective. Not even as Drones. They love going for Humans because Humans have been one of the more successful species at resisting them, thus there is something of value that gives Humans that resistance variable that the Borg desire.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
I have trouble believing any MMO (let alone this one) could have any "immersion". But that may be because I was introduced to the concept/term on the old Skyrim forums - where people would come to moan about how their "immersion was RUINED" by: the game daring to have any UI on screen at all. The game having music ("my character isn't carrying around a radio!"). The game showing even brief glimpses of their character in third person view ("is my character clairvoyant now? How can he see the back of his own head?!?!?"). Etc, etc, etc.
...thinking about it, that probably began my dislike of the term, and how it's frequently used as a blunt club to complain about literally any game feature people don't like. (And the end of my journey to dislike was when a guy on the Wasteland 2 beta forums, complained that his 'immersion was ruined' by the game having a graphics option to apply different post-processing tones - because it "disrespected the dev's Vision!" Yeah, the same devs who programmed that option into the game. /facepalm)
I always took this as there was no effective counter to physical attacks (ground). Even in game there really isn't (except maybe those rare instances where you're able to get perfect shields). They only assimilate and take in that which advances them and makes them better, yes, but they don't not adapt to an attack just cause it's using inferior technology. If that was the case, then they should've never started adapting to phaser weapon fire in their first encounters with the Federation seems it technically was an inferior technology.
In the case of the Replicators example, the reason human weaponary was so effective wasn't because the Replicators ignored it or whatever, but because there wasn't a fool proof counter to it (best they could muster against physical impact was to attempt to harden their pieces, find ways to disperse the kinetic energy of the impact (shatter/fall apart), and then pull themselves back together).
Effeciency.
The Borg have no use for form. They want pure function. Maximum output and minimal waste. Simple geometric shapes provide that. Other species integrate form with function, hence why some species have graceful lines and sweeping features on their ships, and others have more spiky, aggressive features meant to invoke images of predators.
To the Borg, many of these features are nothing more than a waste of resources. Totally pointless. Why waste material on giving a ship wings that serve no real function? As for assimilated ships, the likely answer is that they use the ships as necessary, but as soon as their usefulness has ended, they disassemble the ships for materials.
normal text = me speaking as fellow formite
colored text = mod mode
It is because they do assimilate those ships, and the Borg systems integrate and expand them. And what shape do they use when done expanding the ships? The Sphere, the Cube, etc. You see that in action in ENT where the Borg took over a UESPA Delta and by the end of the episode it was well on its way to being a small sphere.
Why does that happen? It is almost certainly because the most efficient and sturdiest form is the sphere, and the most convenient and simplest to build and equip is the cube. The Borg are over-logical and in a rut when it comes to ship designs.
What STO calls a Probe is a sort of intermediate form, there is probably the vestiges of some other race's ship buried in the center of it and eventually it would either puff out to be a small sphere which would "grow" layers like an onion over time until it gets to the familiar size, or it would push out and square off into a small cube that would likewise become layered into larger and larger forms until it topped out at the usual cube size.
You are right to think so, part of me do too but we MUST conclude what’s seen in the show: Starfleet clearly outsmarted the collective both in technology and technique within just a decade or two. Now after three decades when STO takes place…
I think the major lesson to be learned from the show here was delivered by Janeway when she said the Borg assimilate and Starfleet INVESTIGATES! It is the ultimate victory of individualism over collectiveness and the game reflects that perfectly.
Each of us a choice to either stay as bad as he or she is when he/she starts playing or take all that is offered and start to grow.
I made my choice when I let head of Starfleet Tactical, Admiral @felisean, recruit me. I learned what he taught me, I did my homework and practised hard. I even made a career when I grew through the league’s ranks, became an appreciated team mate of the league Admins with video invites and even got a chance to write some paper here, here and here to help others.
@kiksken has the very same opportunity! It’s up to him to either take and make the best of it (like every protagonist from the show) or sit here and forums to decay himself.
As an RPer I really have to wonder why he has chosen the clearly wrong path. In my opinion he should either go back to the Academy and get straight with the basics or should start to pursue some other interests in case he is just not Starfleet material.
Respectfully
Commodore Peter Connor
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
In a sense the Borg Collective is like a massive computer, it can run data you insert to it, but it cannot create new data that isn't based on raw data it already has.
I think I kind of covered that with this:
they did - you can find borg ship debris near that gash in the sphere in the...contested zone, i think?
#LegalizeAwoo
A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"
"It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
"We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
So, while I don't necessarily agree with kiksken's proposed solution from the other thread, I do agree with their sentiment on the issue. If this was a 100% single player game, and thus you could freely choose how you want to play and not be effected by other's, then maybe. But it's not. And I can't go into a TFO/RA/other shared content and say "please, everyone, try not to kill stuff like it's mere paper to you". Doesn't work that way.
Also, for the record, the mod shut the other thread down cause of the way kiksken wrote the opening post... not because of the topic itself.
But really, at this point I'm not sure this is worth the debate anymore. While obviously some people don't find it fun to be able to own anything by looking at it funny (and having to contend with shared content where others that can do this can freely enter), there's obviously others who do like being able to do this. I don't think either side is going to convince the other of anything. At some point, the ones that have lost interest in the state of the game and no longer consider it as fun will leave and only the die hard Trek fans may stay. No idea if that alone will be enough to keep this game going.
No, you imply that the Borg should be able to catch on. Judging from the development curves of both cultures in the shows we have zero indication that they do and that is what is reflected so well in STO.
Ever since Wolf 359 the Borg were out smarted by Starfleet in every engagement one way or the other. On most occasions it were the actions of individuals causing the defeat of Borg and that is EXACTLY what makes the immersion so perfect in STO.
See, in game we can’t just one shot them as newbes when we begin to play. We must start the INVESTIGATION first! We must learn, study and explore what’s available, we have to min max our ships and after a long journey with lots of practise we can finaly succeed. Not before! But then two shots and a cube is gone, as it should be in the 25th century!
From an RP perspective it is the LORE GIVEN RIGHT to be able to kill the Borg as easily as we can in STO *IF* we have become good enough to do so. If we still can’t after a year or two we are both lousy RPer as well as video-gamer.
In any case we are not Starfleet material and should seriously consider pursuing some other interests.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
Hm that’s a good idea. Perhaps its long time overdue that DPSer start to do so.
To be frank if some RPer around here has the balls to pose as Starfleet Admiral he should be able to be good enough not to let others DPS away their targets before he can. If he feels the need to seek counselling by crying in STO forums instead perhaps he should finaly realize that its about damn time that he makes room in the big chair for someone else.
Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
You failed to read that correctly. I'm not saying that they should catch on, but catch up. Again, if "we" develop better tech, then they capture a ship with that tech, they now have that tech to upgrade their fleet with. It's not a matter of "investigating" that tech to learn how to counter it or even improve it. They simply have it. So, again, they should never be that far behind as to be that easily beaten.
All of that aside, it is not good gameplay design to have end game content that is so easy as to be solo'd without effort. RP has nothing to do with it here.