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✯✯✯ STAR TREK PICARD ✯✯✯ (reactions and discussion WITH SPOILERS)

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  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    I mean they are technically cores that power their warp drives. One could argue it's short hand. A smidge of a stretch sure.
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,845 Arc User
    and since when does the energy dissipator not work on ships equipped with singularity cores? i don't remember anything in DS9 saying it can't dampen the energy generated by one​​
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    I give them a 6 out of 10. Biggest gripe was lazy writing.

    I'm not so sure it was lazy writing or more so that they had a limited time frame to tell the story and the plot wasn't really 'fleshed' out as much as we would have liked.

    Actually, skimping on writing to the point it is not fleshed out properly is pretty much the definition of lazy writing. And that is surprising with Chabon involved, which makes me wonder just how much control he really had since that kind of laziness is the direct opposite of his writing style. It seems very much more Kurtzman's style in fact, like he is micromanaging from upstairs too much.
    gaalom wrote: »
    As for the Fed Ships, they are too small for the old Noble/Imperial class. I would put them in the catagory of the Typhoon class starship, minus the double nacelles. With a little bit of the Prometheus mixed in. As for the Romulan ships just did not look right to me. Not to mention the one mistake of the series. Riker threatened to fire on there warp cores. Romulan ships use singularity's for power. Its also the same mistake ds9 made when they had the Breen weapon effect the Romulan ships.

    If the Federation ships that showed up were smaller than the Noble/Imperial cruiser kitbash they resemble then how would they be closer to the Typhoon class battleship?

    It is also possible that some Romulan ship classes use warp cores while the majority use singularity cores, the old Stormbirds almost certainly would have had the original Klingon engines for instance. It was mentioned in Nemesis that Remus was their main source of dilithium (as bad a source as it was) so they were not completely without the means to build and maintain at least a small number of warp cores, and if they were mining it they were obviously using it for something (though to be fair they could have been trading most of it away for things they actually use).
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,288 Arc User
    Personally, I'm looking forward to season 2 to see where they take this ragtag group next. On a side note, I want that warp out visual/sound.
    Make a Disco toon. That's the default sound/visual for the era. I like it.
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  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,932 Arc User
    So apparently the original captain of the flagship at the end was supposed to be Admiral Clancy.
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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 4,529 Arc User
    khan5000 wrote: »
    So apparently the original captain of the flagship at the end was supposed to be Admiral Clancy.

    They made the right choice.

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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,292 Arc User
    Since Admirals are 'chair-bound paper-pushers', it fell to a Reerve Captain to command the Fleet as Starfleets only Commodore was a traitor and commanding the Romulan Fleet. ;)
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  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    I give them a 6 out of 10. Biggest gripe was lazy writing.

    I'm not so sure it was lazy writing or more so that they had a limited time frame to tell the story and the plot wasn't really 'fleshed' out as much as we would have liked.

    Actually, skimping on writing to the point it is not fleshed out properly is pretty much the definition of lazy writing. And that is surprising with Chabon involved, which makes me wonder just how much control he really had since that kind of laziness is the direct opposite of his writing style. It seems very much more Kurtzman's style in fact, like he is micromanaging from upstairs too much.
    gaalom wrote: »
    As for the Fed Ships, they are too small for the old Noble/Imperial class. I would put them in the catagory of the Typhoon class starship, minus the double nacelles. With a little bit of the Prometheus mixed in. As for the Romulan ships just did not look right to me. Not to mention the one mistake of the series. Riker threatened to fire on there warp cores. Romulan ships use singularity's for power. Its also the same mistake ds9 made when they had the Breen weapon effect the Romulan ships.

    If the Federation ships that showed up were smaller than the Noble/Imperial cruiser kitbash they resemble then how would they be closer to the Typhoon class battleship?

    It is also possible that some Romulan ship classes use warp cores while the majority use singularity cores, the old Stormbirds almost certainly would have had the original Klingon engines for instance. It was mentioned in Nemesis that Remus was their main source of dilithium (as bad a source as it was) so they were not completely without the means to build and maintain at least a small number of warp cores, and if they were mining it they were obviously using it for something (though to be fair they could have been trading most of it away for things they actually use).

    it's also possiable the singualrity drive was unique to the D'deredex class and the romulan star empire abandoned the technology, perhaps the singualrity drive proved to be too maintiance expensive, perhaps it was actualy inferior to the latest matter/anti-matter warp drives and only was deployed because at the time dilithium shortages where causing a production bottleneck etc. or perhaps it was superior but in the post romulus era singualrity drives proved a production bottleneck and the RSE choose to go with older matter/anti-matter plants to allow them to build up a new fleet quicker.

  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,473 Arc User
    A warp core is just the common name for any type of energy reactor powering a warp drive. An artificial quantum singularity reactor core and matter/anti-matter reaction reactor core are both different types of warp cores.

    Now if Riker threatened to fire on the Romulans' antimatter reactor core instead of their warp cores, then they would be using a matter-antimatter reaction to power their ships. So there is no evidence that the Romulans changed from artificial quantum singularities to matter/anti-matter reaction based on Riker's threat. The only way for the artificial quantum singularity to not be a warp core is if it is used for something unrelated to warp drives like powering a starbase or a different method of FTL propulsion.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    I give them a 6 out of 10. Biggest gripe was lazy writing.

    I'm not so sure it was lazy writing or more so that they had a limited time frame to tell the story and the plot wasn't really 'fleshed' out as much as we would have liked.

    Actually, skimping on writing to the point it is not fleshed out properly is pretty much the definition of lazy writing. And that is surprising with Chabon involved, which makes me wonder just how much control he really had since that kind of laziness is the direct opposite of his writing style. It seems very much more Kurtzman's style in fact, like he is micromanaging from upstairs too much.
    gaalom wrote: »
    As for the Fed Ships, they are too small for the old Noble/Imperial class. I would put them in the catagory of the Typhoon class starship, minus the double nacelles. With a little bit of the Prometheus mixed in. As for the Romulan ships just did not look right to me. Not to mention the one mistake of the series. Riker threatened to fire on there warp cores. Romulan ships use singularity's for power. Its also the same mistake ds9 made when they had the Breen weapon effect the Romulan ships.

    If the Federation ships that showed up were smaller than the Noble/Imperial cruiser kitbash they resemble then how would they be closer to the Typhoon class battleship?

    It is also possible that some Romulan ship classes use warp cores while the majority use singularity cores, the old Stormbirds almost certainly would have had the original Klingon engines for instance. It was mentioned in Nemesis that Remus was their main source of dilithium (as bad a source as it was) so they were not completely without the means to build and maintain at least a small number of warp cores, and if they were mining it they were obviously using it for something (though to be fair they could have been trading most of it away for things they actually use).

    it's also possiable the singualrity drive was unique to the D'deredex class and the romulan star empire abandoned the technology, perhaps the singualrity drive proved to be too maintiance expensive, perhaps it was actualy inferior to the latest matter/anti-matter warp drives and only was deployed because at the time dilithium shortages where causing a production bottleneck etc. or perhaps it was superior but in the post romulus era singualrity drives proved a production bottleneck and the RSE choose to go with older matter/anti-matter plants to allow them to build up a new fleet quicker.

    True, it is possible, but hopefully CBS will not totally drop the ball by making something like that "D'deredex only" thing official. The singularity cores are the best explanation of things going all the way back to TOS, like for instance the question of how the Romulans travelled interstellar distances without a stardrive of any kind.

    Remember, in "Balance of Terror" Scotty could not find anything but "simple impulse" in his scan of the warbird and Spock was baffled as to how they were generating enough energy to power those huge torpedoes and the cloak. The sensors may not have been able to "see" the singularity core or it may have looked like something else which would fit the facts presented in that (and other) episodes.

    One very good fan theory that was being kicked around a few years ago was that Romulan drives might have used the singularity cores to play with the physics of FTL travel in a way similar to the shipboard FTL drives in Mass Effect instead of using a standard warp field and after having a rude awakening about how slow their drives were they may have bought or traded for old Klingon ships to try and figure out a way to use the singularity output to generate a warp field instead.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,175 Arc User
    Well, Ep 10 was the worst of the bunch, by far. There were some scenes that if you completely cut out story context, were great.

    Captain Riker in command of the fleet (should have been admiral Riker or some other admiral, realistically) was a great scene, yet in the context of the greater story, what we've already seen, was insanely dumb. He lets O, who infiltrated and betrayed Starfleet, has access to however many command codes and whatever that Starfleet gave her, get away with no consequences. She's not a diplomat, she's a spy who actively worked against the Federation's interests and ideals. And while her fleet for some reason wasn't already bombarding the planet to save the universe for reasons, Riker's fleet should have been helping because the universe is at risk, and why is he even in command of a starship again so quickly? Pizza chef to Fleet Captain in what, 5 days maybe? Also, boring fleet composition.

    Then you have the Data/Picard scene which in itself is pretty good. Yet, when you realize its pasted on the backdrop of a colony of synths, who apparently mostly all have Data's memories, and they have a golem to simply give Picard extra life, why didn't they just bring back Data instead of leaving him on a mainframe? The real answer is that it is totally unrelated to in universe or story reasons, its because Spiner didn't want to play Data anymore, yet they didn't even consider giving him a new body for a new actor. It could have been a much better scene with a better story context behind it, yet they ham fisted Data into the story anyway! Data and his memory was totally irrelevant in the end, just like Picard's death, and no one even flinches at snuffing Data out rather than talking him into life again.

    Other things were just horrible, like the big bad evil robot Cthulu. Why did turning the beacon off stop it? Now it knows when/where you are and can come at any time, because it couldn't before for some magic reason. But how big of a threat is it anyway? If it did some big stuff 200k years ago, it clearly did a terrible job. The Voth have been around for millions of years for one, and their tech level is superior to the Federation. I'm fairly sure there are others as well that have lived through that 200k year ago era, so why is this thing a threat at all?

    But if it is as big a threat as we were supposed to believe, there is a problem. Androids need to be wiped out, because at any point, any one of them could build a beacon undetected and call robocthulu forth again. We saw how stupidly fickle Soji was, after all the efforts Picard went through to help her, and meeting many other friendly humans, including Riker's daughter, she was willing to wipe out all of them, and all life, when humans did no wrong to her, just Romulans.

    And despite the massive threat Soji was presenting herself as, Rios has a moral dilemma. Really? She wants to kill you and every living person in existence. And lets not get into the idiocy of the soccerbomb instead of using your ship. Dust off and nuke it from orbit.

    So clearly it makes perfect sense that if androids are this major, potential threat, the android ban is lifted just like that. Why? Did I miss the exposition on that? Where was that even hinted at in any other episode, that such a thing might be in the works? Frankly it seems like O was indeed the force behind that, because once she is gone everything goes back to normal.

    It comes as no surprise the murder of Maddox goes unpunished, but what is surprising is that Rios is ready to get with a girl who murdered her last lover. Smart. And completely out of left field is the absurd Seven/Raffi romance. Literally zero build up to that, but sure lets pander to activists and TRIBBLE off real LGB people who aren't tokens to be shoved into a slot. And because I'm sure I have to say it, I don't care if Seven/Raffi are TRIBBLE, bi, TRIBBLE, whatever. It makes no difference. However the fact that both of them have a long history of being straight and there is zero build up to the change makes it clear it was just done for muh representation rather than the hard work of fleshing out the characters and watching them grow close together.

    The worst thing of all though, has to be the magic imagination wand. It is just a deus ex device that had no business existing, and makes no sense in how it was used. Fix the ship and make some copies of it, or wish away the Romulans and the big bad evil robocthulu... choices, choices.


    The writing was simply awful. Yes its nice that the Federation is ultimately redeemed or something to some degree, but it had no business and no purpose being so darkly written in the story anyway. If the Federation ideals are that fragile and that fungible to flip them up or down like a lightswitch then who cares about what the Federation believes or what ideals it holds? This series grabbed at so many things and didn't focus on anything to its detriment.

    I have no interest in season 2, 3, 4, or any other after this. The writers didn't care to write a good story, much less a good Star Trek story. I definitely do not understand why anyone liked it, but I don't need to. I hope that people who did like it get as much more of STP as they want, but I'm not interested in more.
  • hawku001xhawku001x Member Posts: 10,554 Arc User
    Soooo is all of Starfleet's ship compliment just one class now? Ok.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,932 Arc User
    hawku001x wrote: »
    Soooo is all of Starfleet's ship compliment just one class now? Ok.

    I don’t think that’s all of Star Fleet. I think it’s just their fast reaction Fleet.
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,019 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Captain Riker in command of the fleet (should have been admiral Riker or some other admiral, realistically) was a great scene, yet in the context of the greater story, what we've already seen, was insanely dumb. He lets O, who infiltrated and betrayed Starfleet, has access to however many command codes and whatever that Starfleet gave her, get away with no consequences. She's not a diplomat, she's a spy who actively worked against the Federation's interests and ideals. And while her fleet for some reason wasn't already bombarding the planet to save the universe for reasons, Riker's fleet should have been helping because the universe is at risk, and why is he even in command of a starship again so quickly? Pizza chef to Fleet Captain in what, 5 days maybe? Also, boring fleet composition.
    What exactly did you expect Riker to do? If he told Oh she was under arrest all she would have to say is "nah, I'm not" and then any attempt to arrest her would have resulted in having to get into an all out fight with her fleet. And even then, she would more likely either escape, or kill herself, before being taken into custody. Riker isn't going to throw away the lives of however many people are on however many ships the Romluans manage to destroy before that on something anyone could see wouldn't go anywhere.

    Also, its mentioned back in episode 7 "Nepenthe" that hes still in Starfleet in active reserve. Hes a Starship captain throughout the whole series. Hes just not in active duty right then.
    Then you have the Data/Picard scene which in itself is pretty good. Yet, when you realize its pasted on the backdrop of a colony of synths, who apparently mostly all have Data's memories, and they have a golem to simply give Picard extra life, why didn't they just bring back Data instead of leaving him on a mainframe? The real answer is that it is totally unrelated to in universe or story reasons, its because Spiner didn't want to play Data anymore, yet they didn't even consider giving him a new body for a new actor. It could have been a much better scene with a better story context behind it, yet they ham fisted Data into the story anyway! Data and his memory was totally irrelevant in the end, just like Picard's death, and no one even flinches at snuffing Data out rather than talking him into life again.
    They explain this in the episode, and back in like episode 2 as well. The Data we see is one just one small fragment of Data's mind, created from what little parts of his mind copy to B4 didn't get corrupted.There isn't enough there to put into a golem.
    Other things were just horrible, like the big bad evil robot Cthulu. Why did turning the beacon off stop it? Now it knows when/where you are and can come at any time, because it couldn't before for some magic reason. But how big of a threat is it anyway? If it did some big stuff 200k years ago, it clearly did a terrible job. The Voth have been around for millions of years for one, and their tech level is superior to the Federation. I'm fairly sure there are others as well that have lived through that 200k year ago era, so why is this thing a threat at all?
    Because the Beacon was what was opening the portal that it was coming through in the first place. Also explained in the last two episodes.
    But if it is as big a threat as we were supposed to believe, there is a problem. Androids need to be wiped out, because at any point, any one of them could build a beacon undetected and call robocthulu forth again. We saw how stupidly fickle Soji was, after all the efforts Picard went through to help her, and meeting many other friendly humans, including Riker's daughter, she was willing to wipe out all of them, and all life, when humans did no wrong to her, just Romulans.
    By this logic Picard should have infected Hugh with the Borg killing virus back in TNG. No, genocide an entire group of people is never the right answer, no matter their intent.
    And despite the massive threat Soji was presenting herself as, Rios has a moral dilemma. Really? She wants to kill you and every living person in existence. And lets not get into the idiocy of the soccerbomb instead of using your ship. Dust off and nuke it from orbit.
    That would have been a horrible idea since they risk killing Picard and Jarati, who they belived were still at the synth compound.
    So clearly it makes perfect sense that if androids are this major, potential threat, the android ban is lifted just like that. Why? Did I miss the exposition on that? Where was that even hinted at in any other episode, that such a thing might be in the works? Frankly it seems like O was indeed the force behind that, because once she is gone everything goes back to normal.
    Because once you show that the synth ban was really a Romulan influenced decision, what reason would they have to keep them banned?
    It comes as no surprise the murder of Maddox goes unpunished, but what is surprising is that Rios is ready to get with a girl who murdered her last lover. Smart. And completely out of left field is the absurd Seven/Raffi romance. Literally zero build up to that, but sure lets pander to activists and TRIBBLE off real LGB people who aren't tokens to be shoved into a slot. And because I'm sure I have to say it, I don't care if Seven/Raffi are TRIBBLE, bi, TRIBBLE, whatever. It makes no difference. However the fact that both of them have a long history of being straight and there is zero build up to the change makes it clear it was just done for muh representation rather than the hard work of fleshing out the characters and watching them grow close together.
    Actually, its mentioned back in Stardust City Rag that Seven was in an intimate relationship with Bjayzl, which is part of the reason she took Bjayzl's betrayal so harshly.


    M8, I'm sorry, but 90% of these things were clearly explained in the show, same with your complaints about past episodes.
  • khan5000khan5000 Member Posts: 2,932 Arc User
    Raffi has a long history of being straight?
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  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    I mean they never said she was straight, in hindsight she did make some comments about pretty and beautiful women.

    I don't feel there's any tokenism involved with seven and Raffi being bi, they're great characters that deserve to be happy.

    Definitely feel that Elnor might be TRIBBLE, that's the vibe I get from him. He deserves the chance to grow as an individual now that he's free of his commitments.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    Specific details aside, overall it all still feels like sloppy, lazy writing. It seems like they tried brainstorming but just took the first thing that popped into their head instead of coming up with alternatives and later weighing which ones fit best to weave into the story.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    as for Seven's sexuality, there are countless stories of people who are bi or TRIBBLE who think they're straight and try their hand at some romances before they figure it out. I mean the only relationship we saw seven in was with Chakotay, which, frankly, had all the chemistry as a mix of two noble gases
  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    Why does the censor on these forums block out a term for a male homosexual. That's actually kind of offensive.
  • mneme0mneme0 Member Posts: 469 Arc User
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    Why does the censor on these forums block out a term for a male homosexual. That's actually kind of offensive.

    IIRC, to cater to countries that have bigoted laws regarding such matters.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 588 Arc User
    mneme0 wrote: »
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    Why does the censor on these forums block out a term for a male homosexual. That's actually kind of offensive.

    IIRC, to cater to countries that have bigoted laws regarding such matters.

    LOL no thats not the case at all. just the oppisite it's because the term is commonly used derogatorily.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,473 Arc User
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    Why does the censor on these forums block out a term for a male homosexual. That's actually kind of offensive.

    As well as a specific term for lighthearted and carefree.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,292 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    As in the G*y Nineties, G*y Paree (Paris), or the most 'egregious' of all:

    'When you're with the Flintstones
    Have a yabba-dabba-doo time
    A dabba-doo time
    We'll have a g*y old time' ;)
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  • gaalomgaalom Member Posts: 524 Arc User
    As for the Typhoon she was a battleship but not very big at least not in the game, kinda of mashed together, which is why I brought it up. As for singularity core, it is mentioned in tng, that you can not shut down a Romulan artificial singularity core. Specifically the episode where some of the bridge crew are returning to the enterprise, and find the Enterprise looking like it was battling a warbird, surrounded by fractures in time
  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 318 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    M8, I'm sorry, but 90% of these things were clearly explained in the show, same with your complaints about past episodes.

    I am not sure anything is "clearly" explained in the show. Like in Discovery, there are a lot of developments and action that happen very suddenly with little exposition. And a lot of threads that are ignored or outright dropped. It is true, if you watch closely there are often "justifications" that are given. But many of the "justifications" require a bit more than a regular suspension of disbelief to swallow, or a lot of fan speculation added to make them more diagestable.

    Phoenixc has pointed out that there is something about the arc nature of these new series that require some of this. Each episode needs or should at least naturally have a conflict arc--if we accept standard story model practices. So you need episodic conflic and action that is still building these larger threads to move the series. That does mean it is easier to conveniently forget Madox's murder or dismiss it with Picard's explanation of stress or however he explained it. It is a balancing act that is not just on the writers but also in the direction, and in the cutting...

    I cannot speak for everyone's criticism of Picard. But TNG is slow. Right. The pacing is slow, there is normally only one conflict, and there is a lot of talking heads debating it, a few high budget special effects (mainly reused), and episodic resolve to zero. This episode has little baring on the next episode. People who like TNG pacing and do not fall asleep watching it on re-run for the 100th time, are going to find Picard fast-moving, not intellectually stimulating, and perhaps difficult to follow.

    Also, I do not like being mislead as a viewer and I think when Seven shows up unannounced; when Picard talks to the Riker girl without letting the Android and viewer know where are so we can be surprised at the Riker home; and the Hugh death being stretched out in two mismatched scenes where they escape--but it is a fake-out 'cause he still dies... These points feel disingenuous to me. And there are a lot of points that I felt I was being manipulated towards nostalgia as a fan-service rather than being treated as a rational viewer.

    This type of Star Trek referencing shows the writers must know something about Star Trek--but it feels more of a superficial understanding than respect for the franchise that they inherited.

    But my biggest quib, and my overall argument again, is things that require more exposition to feel digestible to viewers--is often indicative of weak writing. But the problem is probably more the writers pandering to some ideal of Marvel or Star Wars or some idea of what "new-Trek" or "post-Kelvin Trek" needs--more than an attempt to ignore the specter of "Star Trek canon."

    I, for one, would be happier if the writers and producers threaded lighter rather than warping through their storylines.

    Post edited by qultuq on
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  • kaithan1975kaithan1975 Member Posts: 715 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Personally, I'm looking forward to season 2 to see where they take this ragtag group next. On a side note, I want that warp out visual/sound.
    Make a Disco toon. That's the default sound/visual for the era. I like it.

    My Disco toons warp out sound/visual looks nothing like the one in Picard, not even close.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,415 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Personally, I'm looking forward to season 2 to see where they take this ragtag group next. On a side note, I want that warp out visual/sound.

    It's the Discovery sound and available for Discovery-era characters. The Picard show reuses Discoveries V/SFX to a large degree, so far to have actual Discovery era starships in the Mars evacuation fleet - but literally none of the old known classes. With the exception of a Galaxy model, which was used in Picard's dreams, we only saw Discovery ship and the new class in the last episode.​​
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,288 Arc User
    qultuq wrote: »
    M8, I'm sorry, but 90% of these things were clearly explained in the show, same with your complaints about past episodes.

    I am not sure anything is "clearly" explained in the show.
    Everything is clearly explained in the show, except of course for trivial, unimportant details like the characters' sex lives. Just because you can't be bothered to pay attention and connect things, doesn't mean those things aren't connected on-screen.

    I'm sorry this isn't spoon-feeding you all the exposition in easy-to-digest speeches and constant flashbacks like most American broadcast TV, but there it is.
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