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✯✯✯ STAR TREK PICARD ✯✯✯ (reactions and discussion WITH SPOILERS)

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  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    I mean they never said she was straight, in hindsight she did make some comments about pretty and beautiful women.

    I don't feel there's any tokenism involved with seven and Raffi being bi, they're great characters that deserve to be happy.

    Definitely feel that Elnor might be TRIBBLE, that's the vibe I get from him. He deserves the chance to grow as an individual now that he's free of his commitments.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    Specific details aside, overall it all still feels like sloppy, lazy writing. It seems like they tried brainstorming but just took the first thing that popped into their head instead of coming up with alternatives and later weighing which ones fit best to weave into the story.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    as for Seven's sexuality, there are countless stories of people who are bi or TRIBBLE who think they're straight and try their hand at some romances before they figure it out. I mean the only relationship we saw seven in was with Chakotay, which, frankly, had all the chemistry as a mix of two noble gases
  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    Why does the censor on these forums block out a term for a male homosexual. That's actually kind of offensive.
  • mneme0mneme0 Member Posts: 498 Arc User
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    Why does the censor on these forums block out a term for a male homosexual. That's actually kind of offensive.

    IIRC, to cater to countries that have bigoted laws regarding such matters.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    mneme0 wrote: »
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    Why does the censor on these forums block out a term for a male homosexual. That's actually kind of offensive.

    IIRC, to cater to countries that have bigoted laws regarding such matters.

    LOL no thats not the case at all. just the oppisite it's because the term is commonly used derogatorily.
  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    Why does the censor on these forums block out a term for a male homosexual. That's actually kind of offensive.

    As well as a specific term for lighthearted and carefree.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    As in the G*y Nineties, G*y Paree (Paris), or the most 'egregious' of all:

    'When you're with the Flintstones
    Have a yabba-dabba-doo time
    A dabba-doo time
    We'll have a g*y old time' ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • gaalomgaalom Member Posts: 530 Arc User
    As for the Typhoon she was a battleship but not very big at least not in the game, kinda of mashed together, which is why I brought it up. As for singularity core, it is mentioned in tng, that you can not shut down a Romulan artificial singularity core. Specifically the episode where some of the bridge crew are returning to the enterprise, and find the Enterprise looking like it was battling a warbird, surrounded by fractures in time
  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 988 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    M8, I'm sorry, but 90% of these things were clearly explained in the show, same with your complaints about past episodes.

    I am not sure anything is "clearly" explained in the show. Like in Discovery, there are a lot of developments and action that happen very suddenly with little exposition. And a lot of threads that are ignored or outright dropped. It is true, if you watch closely there are often "justifications" that are given. But many of the "justifications" require a bit more than a regular suspension of disbelief to swallow, or a lot of fan speculation added to make them more diagestable.

    Phoenixc has pointed out that there is something about the arc nature of these new series that require some of this. Each episode needs or should at least naturally have a conflict arc--if we accept standard story model practices. So you need episodic conflic and action that is still building these larger threads to move the series. That does mean it is easier to conveniently forget Madox's murder or dismiss it with Picard's explanation of stress or however he explained it. It is a balancing act that is not just on the writers but also in the direction, and in the cutting...

    I cannot speak for everyone's criticism of Picard. But TNG is slow. Right. The pacing is slow, there is normally only one conflict, and there is a lot of talking heads debating it, a few high budget special effects (mainly reused), and episodic resolve to zero. This episode has little baring on the next episode. People who like TNG pacing and do not fall asleep watching it on re-run for the 100th time, are going to find Picard fast-moving, not intellectually stimulating, and perhaps difficult to follow.

    Also, I do not like being mislead as a viewer and I think when Seven shows up unannounced; when Picard talks to the Riker girl without letting the Android and viewer know where are so we can be surprised at the Riker home; and the Hugh death being stretched out in two mismatched scenes where they escape--but it is a fake-out 'cause he still dies... These points feel disingenuous to me. And there are a lot of points that I felt I was being manipulated towards nostalgia as a fan-service rather than being treated as a rational viewer.

    This type of Star Trek referencing shows the writers must know something about Star Trek--but it feels more of a superficial understanding than respect for the franchise that they inherited.

    But my biggest quib, and my overall argument again, is things that require more exposition to feel digestible to viewers--is often indicative of weak writing. But the problem is probably more the writers pandering to some ideal of Marvel or Star Wars or some idea of what "new-Trek" or "post-Kelvin Trek" needs--more than an attempt to ignore the specter of "Star Trek canon."

    I, for one, would be happier if the writers and producers threaded lighter rather than warping through their storylines.

    Post edited by qultuq on
  • kaithan1975kaithan1975 Member Posts: 947 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Personally, I'm looking forward to season 2 to see where they take this ragtag group next. On a side note, I want that warp out visual/sound.
    Make a Disco toon. That's the default sound/visual for the era. I like it.

    My Disco toons warp out sound/visual looks nothing like the one in Picard, not even close.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Personally, I'm looking forward to season 2 to see where they take this ragtag group next. On a side note, I want that warp out visual/sound.

    It's the Discovery sound and available for Discovery-era characters. The Picard show reuses Discoveries V/SFX to a large degree, so far to have actual Discovery era starships in the Mars evacuation fleet - but literally none of the old known classes. With the exception of a Galaxy model, which was used in Picard's dreams, we only saw Discovery ship and the new class in the last episode.​​
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    qultuq wrote: »
    M8, I'm sorry, but 90% of these things were clearly explained in the show, same with your complaints about past episodes.

    I am not sure anything is "clearly" explained in the show.
    Everything is clearly explained in the show, except of course for trivial, unimportant details like the characters' sex lives. Just because you can't be bothered to pay attention and connect things, doesn't mean those things aren't connected on-screen.

    I'm sorry this isn't spoon-feeding you all the exposition in easy-to-digest speeches and constant flashbacks like most American broadcast TV, but there it is.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    As in the G*y Nineties, G*y Paree (Paris), or the most 'egregious' of all:

    'When you're with the Flintstones
    Have a yabba-dabba-doo time
    A dabba-doo time
    We'll have a g*y old time' ;)

    It certainly gives a different perception of the Flintstones now. As a kid, I never saw anything that Fred and Barney or Wilma and Betty was more than good friends. I suppose it is possible that there was subtle imagery that I was unable to see. However, the Flintstones was certainly lighthearted and carefree.
  • captainbrian11captainbrian11 Member Posts: 733 Arc User
    IMHO they might wanna just add
    jonsills wrote: »
    qultuq wrote: »
    M8, I'm sorry, but 90% of these things were clearly explained in the show, same with your complaints about past episodes.

    I am not sure anything is "clearly" explained in the show.
    Everything is clearly explained in the show, except of course for trivial, unimportant details like the characters' sex lives. Just because you can't be bothered to pay attention and connect things, doesn't mean those things aren't connected on-screen.

    I'm sorry this isn't spoon-feeding you all the exposition in easy-to-digest speeches and constant flashbacks like most American broadcast TV, but there it is.

    it amuses me that people on one hand insist Trek needs to be an intelligent show, but in the next complains they occasionally don't outright state things and require you to draw some conclusions
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    Why does the censor on these forums block out a term for a male homosexual. That's actually kind of offensive.
    Because the term is near universally used only as an insult

    I've never seen the 'G' word used as an insult, only the three letter 'F' word. Now when I was young people would occasionally use the 'G' word like so:

    Person 1: "I got cut from the team!"
    Person 2: "That's ***!"

    However, I haven't heard anyone say that kind of idiotic thing since I was in High School, and I graduated sixteen years ago in 2004. Censoring the 'G' word is outdated and offensive imo, akin to pretending homosexual men don't exist at all.

    Anyway, back on topic the only other things that annoyed me about the finale were that Narek just disappears halfway through with no explanation for what his ultimate fate was, Sutra had a very anti-climactic ending, and Jurati suddenly doesn't have to face the consequences for murdering Maddox and gets to fly off free with Rios??
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    IMHO they might wanna just add
    jonsills wrote: »
    qultuq wrote: »
    M8, I'm sorry, but 90% of these things were clearly explained in the show, same with your complaints about past episodes.

    I am not sure anything is "clearly" explained in the show.
    Everything is clearly explained in the show, except of course for trivial, unimportant details like the characters' sex lives. Just because you can't be bothered to pay attention and connect things, doesn't mean those things aren't connected on-screen.

    I'm sorry this isn't spoon-feeding you all the exposition in easy-to-digest speeches and constant flashbacks like most American broadcast TV, but there it is.

    it amuses me that people on one hand insist Trek needs to be an intelligent show, but in the next complains they occasionally don't outright state things and require you to draw some conclusions

    There is a big difference between a well thought out and consistent "intelligent show" that people have been asking for and the sloppy, shallow, plot hole ridden show that CBS delivered. Hopefully they step back next season and actually bother to craft the stories instead of just slinging them off the top of their heads the way this season seems to do. It has nothing to do with outright stating things as such, it just requires conveying the right impressions, something they apparently fell short of.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,385 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    What exactly did you expect Riker to do? If he told Oh she was under arrest all she would have to say is "nah, I'm not" and then any attempt to arrest her would have resulted in having to get into an all out fight with her fleet. And even then, she would more likely either escape, or kill herself, before being taken into custody. Riker isn't going to throw away the lives of however many people are on however many ships the Romluans manage to destroy before that on something anyone could see wouldn't go anywhere.
    Also, considering her main objectives were eventually foiled (infiltrating Starfleet, banning synths, going for their total annihilation, and making the Federation look bad) and she left without fighting, I think the rest of the Zhat Vash leadership will "tell" her she is to be scheduled to... "have her assignment terminated", because we know the Tal Shiar's record about dealing with agents who fail at their goals.

    Something Riker may know.

    Especially considering who foiled those objectives in a matter of days/weeks:
    -an old (now-formerly) discredited, dying admiral
    -a non-action scientist that had to get a mind-meld to be useful to the plan
    -a disgraced officer whose former ship was unpersoned
    -a bitter alcoholic ex-XO
    -a confused synth
    -2 "disgusting half-meats"
    -a "sisterboy"
    -2 ex-Tal Shiar
    #TASforSTO
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  • joshmauljoshmaul Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    qultuq wrote: »
    I am not sure anything is "clearly" explained in the show. Like in Discovery, there are a lot of developments and action that happen very suddenly with little exposition. And a lot of threads that are ignored or outright dropped.

    This is my problem with it as well, and with Season 1 of Discovery. The pacing for Disco season 2 was a lot better. (And plus, Anson Mount as Pike was awesome. Give that man a series, folks!) I'm going to chalk this up to first-season doldrums - every spinoff series from TNG onward has had them, and some... never really got past them. I'm hoping this does not turn into one of the latter.
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    Anyway, back on topic the only other things that annoyed me about the finale were that Narek just disappears halfway through with no explanation for what his ultimate fate was, Sutra had a very anti-climactic ending, and Jurati suddenly doesn't have to face the consequences for murdering Maddox and gets to fly off free with Rios??
    Chabon mentioned on his Instigram that Narek fell victim to the editing process. They originally filmed a scene of him being handed over to the Federation, but it got cut.

    That is absolutely terrible editing then, having one of the big antagonists, especially one with a potential redemption arc, just vanish with no explanation or resolution is extremely jarring.
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  • starkaosstarkaos Member Posts: 11,556 Arc User
    edited March 2020
    Anyway, back on topic the only other things that annoyed me about the finale were that Narek just disappears halfway through with no explanation for what his ultimate fate was, Sutra had a very anti-climactic ending, and Jurati suddenly doesn't have to face the consequences for murdering Maddox and gets to fly off free with Rios??
    Chabon mentioned on his Instigram that Narek fell victim to the editing process. They originally filmed a scene of him being handed over to the Federation, but it got cut.

    That is absolutely terrible editing then, having one of the big antagonists, especially one with a potential redemption arc, just vanish with no explanation or resolution is extremely jarring.

    Not the first time a deleted scene would have explained a certain plot hole. Just saw a video that dealt with a few deleted scenes that removed certain plot holes like how child Kirk got his hands on an almost 300 year old car and how he defeated the Kobayashi Maru in Star Trek 2009.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtUnLZWItwE
  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 928 Arc User
    If they do have a Second Season, they better have someone who knows how to remove Plot Holes in Picard. If I had a car, al my axles would be broken. :p
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,569 Arc User
    Note that the Treaty of Algeron was mentioned, which would indicate it is still in force. Unless parts of it were scrapped, that would seem to still limit Federation use of Cloaks on ships. This is for all those that have been stating in other Threads that the Treaty was null and void and full steam ahead on Cloaks, and yadda, yadda, yadda.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
    Lt. Philip J. Minns
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,275 Arc User
    it WAS null and void when the RSE fully collapsed after sela's abduction - which didn't happen until 10 years later​​
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,354 Arc User
    truewarper wrote: »
    If they do have a Second Season, they better have someone who knows how to remove Plot Holes in Picard. If I had a car, al my axles would be broken. :p
    Nobody's named these "plot holes" yet. What exactly are they? A representative sample would do.
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