As the Command & Chief of the PC STO 101st Fleet, please see my official response regarding this “incident”.
Needless to say, I am extremely angry and disappointed over this advertisement strategy and marketing. Exactly how Cryptic could not see what this would cause is beyond me.
This has caused an uproar in the community at the worst possible time. As we approach the 10th anniversary we need unity and to come together, not be driven apart from the actions of a few at the top of the command chain.
What's worse, is that many members of Cryptic who were not part of this decision will get a lot of blowback from the community. This is especially sad considering some of the brilliant hard work and time they put into this game.
They don’t deserve this. They don’t deserve their hard work to be tainted by those in command.
@baddmoonrizin I hearby request that through your channels at cryptic that you request the CEO of Cryptic studios for its STO division appear in person in the next livestream to explain his actions. Frankly, he would have been in the loop for this decision and most likely would have signed off on it as well.
While I am more than aware of how busy a CEO is, frankly if he doesn’t show or make an official statement himself, he will show to the community how dismissive he sees this problem. His reputation (a bit unjust i think personally) is already low in the community and the last thing he needs is something else for the community to add to their list of grievances. This issue overrides what work he currently has, and he needs to come to the community and answers questions frankly.
Cryptic won’t be forgotten about what they did in this situation for a long time. However, it will be your actions after this that will define how this incident is remember in the community.
You are in the command chair Cryptic, as I am leading a fleet. Our actions and responses define how we are seen.
Command is never easy, but you sat in that chair. Now is time for you to show us how you lead your crew and community in adversity.
Fleet Admiral @Foxman86, 101st Fleet, USS Zuikaku NCC-93522
I can appreciate a good joke, and the in-lore linking...
but this was not the proper execution.
Here's a few ways to actually make the joke more clear:
Don't show any Mudd Store items in any other C-Store section, not even "New Items" or "On Sale"
Don't show the "full price" in Zen. Make it some other currency, like 10 billion GPL (something impossible to acquire). I realize this point might be hard to accomplish, depending on the codebase of the store.
Basically don't make it look like a legitimate sale in any way (even if the prices are absurd)
Also, I've seen people mentioning 14k zen ($140) for a ship is insane. You do realize lockbox ships typically cost much more... and those are only single character?
I realize it's not 2020 yet, so the humor of hindsight might not be completely ripe yet. However, in retrospect, undermining the consumer base's trust in the stability of C-store pricing to make a joke might have been a poor decision. It would be wise to make a PR statement sooner, rather than later, to quell the confusion and outrage.
@baddmoonrizin I hearby request that through your channels at cryptic that you request the CEO of Cryptic studios for its STO division appear in person in the next livestream to explain his actions.
I realize it's not 2020 yet, so the humor of hindsight might not be completely ripe yet. However, in retrospect, undermining the consumer base's trust in the stability of C-store pricing to make a joke might have been a poor decision. It would be wise to make a PR statement sooner, rather than later, to quell the confusion and outrage.
The Devs broke my sense of humor when they removed the Pheonix Box on Upgrade weekend.
undermining the consumer base's trust in the stability of C-store pricing to make a joke might have been a poor decision.
That "might have been" an understatement.
This while funny to some has left a very bad taste and impression.
Aside from someone like Andre Emerson (EP) or Al Rivera (HeadDev) giving some attempt at explanation and apology for the TRIBBLE poor execution of their "joke" I can't see them making this better. Certainly , the forum Mods are not going to be able to properly play defense on this. One, it's not their job and two, they are volunteer mods (who nice as they sometimes are) Are NOT Cryptic employees.
This is not the kind of thing that gets forgotten. It gets glossed over and not talked about after a time, but customers don't forget nonsense like this.
A joke. So... I logged into my account from a friend's computer--since I still can't from mine--and spent 3500 zen on the Vizier because of how insane the "regular" price was. Zen I was intended to use for something else Black Friday, as the Vizier was a fairly low priority for me, but with that price it was "now or never". And it turned out to be a joke?
That's not funny. I'm not normally one to jump on the "refund" bandwagon, but this? This was too much, guys. The C-store is not the place to be making jokes like that, especially when the only hint that it was was a joke is Mudd's reputation. Considering that in every mechanical respect the Mudd's Market tab appeared to operate just the same as the rest of the C-store, that was not enough of a hint.
Orginal prices are obviously meant as a joke but it's a poor one given how many stores actually do increase their 'original prices' prior to Black Friday to later claim huge discounts. Also, not everybody might get the joke and feel cheated when they find out that this huge, and appearantly timed discount was never real.
Orginal prices are obviously meant as a joke but it's a poor one given how many stores actually do increase their 'original prices' prior to Black Friday to later claim huge discounts. Also, not everybody might get the joke and feel cheated when they find out that this huge, and appearantly timed discount was never real.
I know I didn't get it. Given the 2-million-dil costumes in the Dilithium Store, I didn't consider it at all out of the question that Cryptic would price C-store items so high. Outrageous, yes, but hardly unbelievable.
As I said above, I would not have spent the zen I did had I known this was a "joke".
OK, folks, once again I'm going to say not to be making wild, unsubstantiated, and slanderous accusations here. I know that people are feeling a certain way about this, but letting your emotions get the best of yourselves and violating forum rules will do you no good. So, please, let's keep things civil. Thank you.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Mudd's Market is a dumb idea. Everything in that market could have been placed in the Phoenix lock Box. Which is what the player base really wanted anyway. Unless Cryptic reverses this they will lose players.
The joke ends where the law regarding sales practices begins. If they want to make the joke, make it in a blog post, not in the store.
Psst...it's a game.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I can fry bacon off all the heat that this has generated, coupled with the dilithium-exchange prices being what they are right now. It's maxed out and holding strong at the moment!
140 dollars for a t6 non-fleet cruiser is obviously a joke, we only pay that kind of money for Lobi ships. See, I can be subtle too.
In other news...
Has anyone seen the dil market? When has dil ever hit the cap of 500/zen? I'm gonna play a lot this weekend, because it feels like something bad is coming.
140 dollars for a t6 non-fleet cruiser is obviously a joke, we only pay that kind of money for Lobi ships. See, I can be subtle too.
In other news...
Has anyone seen the dil market? When has dil ever hit the cap of 500/zen? I'm gonna play a lot this weekend, because it feels like something bad is coming.
Yep. It's hit the cap a few times in the past. It's not just the Mudd's Market that's causing this. Key sale, with an upgrade weekend thrown on top.
140 dollars for a t6 non-fleet cruiser is obviously a joke, we only pay that kind of money for Lobi ships. See, I can be subtle too.
In other news...
Has anyone seen the dil market? When has dil ever hit the cap of 500/zen? I'm gonna play a lot this weekend, because it feels like something bad is coming.
Yep. It's hit the cap a few times in the past. It's not just the Mudd's Market that's causing this. Key sale, with an upgrade weekend thrown on top.
The only time it got close to cap was on June 30, 2016 at 490. It stayed high until July 14th.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The Devs broke my sense of humor when they removed the Pheonix Box on Upgrade weekend.
They can't remove something that wasn't a pair before.
Occasionally they had a Phoenix event with an upgrade weekend, but it was far from the normal.
If anything, the typical pattern is Upgrade weekend, then Phoenix event after that.
A joke. So... I logged into my account from a friend's computer--since I still can't from mine--and spent 3500 zen on the Vizier because of how insane the "regular" price was. Zen I was intended to use for something else Black Friday, as the Vizier was a fairly low priority for me, but with that price it was "now or never". And it turned out to be a joke?
That's not funny. I'm not normally one to jump on the "refund" bandwagon, but this? This was too much, guys. The C-store is not the place to be making jokes like that, especially when the only hint that it was was a joke is Mudd's reputation. Considering that in every mechanical respect the Mudd's Market tab appeared to operate just the same as the rest of the C-store, that was not enough of a hint.
Not amusing.
Uhm, dude. Seriously? If you didn't understand that Mudd's reputation is terrible at best, then that's on you. Come on! Also, have you ever seen a single ship at 14,000 zen before? Besides, since you cannot get that ship any other way, that "original" 14,000 isn't far fetched per se. Personally, I may or may not get it. If I don't, it's because I could not care about the specs, nor the consoles associated with the set.
A joke. So... I logged into my account from a friend's computer--since I still can't from mine--and spent 3500 zen on the Vizier because of how insane the "regular" price was. Zen I was intended to use for something else Black Friday, as the Vizier was a fairly low priority for me, but with that price it was "now or never". And it turned out to be a joke?
That's not funny. I'm not normally one to jump on the "refund" bandwagon, but this? This was too much, guys. The C-store is not the place to be making jokes like that, especially when the only hint that it was was a joke is Mudd's reputation. Considering that in every mechanical respect the Mudd's Market tab appeared to operate just the same as the rest of the C-store, that was not enough of a hint.
Not amusing.
Uhm, dude. Seriously? If you didn't understand that Mudd's reputation is terrible at best, then that's on you. Come on! Also, have you ever seen a single ship at 14,000 zen before? Besides, since you cannot get that ship any other way, that "original" 14,000 isn't far fetched per se. Personally, I may or may not get it. If I don't, it's because I could not care about the specs, nor the consoles associated with the set.
When literally everything else suggests that the prices given are legitimately intended, the "joke" just comes across as an in-universe explanation, not a hint that the prices are not meant to be taken seriously. And no, I haven't seen a single ship that expensive before--but then I would've said much the same about certain uniforms some time back. After they set a price of two million dilithium for those--which, I might point out, are single-character unlocks--it didn't remotely surprise me that Cryptic would put up account-unlock items at such prices in the C-store.
And yes, 14,000 zen is farfetched. When the idea is to make items that were previously essentially impossible for most players to get widely available, putting them at the price of packs that would have as many as ten ships plus various other perks in them does seem somewhat unreasonable. In practice, that's just as out of reach for the average player as the special means required to get the items before.
The sad part is that I have seen posts from some in these Forums that have used that 14,000 or so Zen figure saying they would pay it if the T6 Constitution was put in the C-Store.
The chickens have come home to roost.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I had a feeling that the prices on these would be higher than they should but having seen them I was surprised to see that they are even more overpriced than I thought they'd be.
Also pretty disgusting that they're being shown as on a 75% "sale" when they are apparently limited time and never going to be sold at the 14k for a single ship nonsense. This is the same keech bugthesda got into bother for with seasonal festive tat in failout76.
And I was predicting that the Items that were being paired with an Ultimate Tech Upgrade was being done to justify a 1,000 Zen price. Boy, was I off the mark by a football field.
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I wonder if one can still be able to get the EMH doc from the phoenix boxes?
The EMH for the Phoenix Box is a Duty Officer, who was part of the Delta Rising episode rewards. The Bridge Officer version was one of the thank you gifts for those who attended conventions (and also one of the prizes that was offered for those who entered online contests during that period).
I wonder if one can still be able to get the EMH doc from the phoenix boxes?
The EMH for the Phoenix Box is a Duty Officer, who was part of the Delta Rising episode rewards. The Bridge Officer version was one of the thank you gifts for those who attended conventions (and also one of the prizes that was offered for those who entered online contests during that period).
No, there's an actual EMH BOff you can get from the Phoenix store. Got one for a KDF character a couple weeks ago. I think the difference is that the Phoenix version is single-character unlock, whereas the Mudd's Market one is account unlock. ...At least I should hope it is, at that price.
Items in Mudds Market seriously overpriced. Most of that use to be FREE - The cost you have listed there for ALL the items makes them unobtainable, I for one will NOT spend what you have listed for anything that use to be free.
At the current conversion of Dil to Zen, I WONT be making Zen anytime soon. Dil chest slams shut with a padlock at 350 per Zen I was actually considering 3 items prior to it going live, howeer, now, NADA!. I have not played since yesterday and following what happened in Mudd/s Market I find myself disinterested in playing at all and taking a break this weekend from the game other than admiralty *disgusted with that also* and the event *majorly disgusted with that also*!
Yea I admit I won't sell DIL either for anything more than 350:1 now their may be some willing to SELL or give it away, but I stop selling DIL just as you when they want more. So just as they say in Mudd's Market I'd offer, "Only a fool sell's DIL for more than 350:1 - 375:1".
The balancing force however is # buyers and quantities verses sellers and quantities.
Back to Mudd.
I think honestly thought the problem is the FULL price is 1.25-2.5x higher (depending on item) than 95% of the player base will pay.
The one exception I'd say is the Bridge Officer pricing is very fair, given they are reclaimable for each character, not 600 ZEN like several others. The exceptions are the Cyborg MW & Kling MW Bridge Officer's which are also account-wide as is 0718 for FED's!
Of course that is just my opinion, but apparently even they agree?
"Only a sucker would buy this at full price..." So I guess they are trying to portray Mudd as his character a true Villian, and we 'might' see a few sales once the Introductory sale is off for possibly slightly more, yet will vary after the initial sale depending on sales, he might also choose to instead delist a few items at different times or swapping out some items for new ones for sale, so only purchased items are reclaimable.
I'm mostly confused about the Vizier Price for the Command Assault Cruiser at 14000 ZEN; only cause the entire Gamma Vanguard Pack is 13000 (if you got the Vanguard Starter pack) and it includes, 6 T6 Starships (with Traits when earned) and 3 T5 Starships upgradable to T5U; if you already have the Starship Traits then T5U Ships are just as effective. That's like getting 2 T6 Ships for Free + the several other bundled items. Cause remember it also includes the Playable Cardassian race which have a nice Personal Space Trait, and they throw in 3 Gamma Vanguard Bridge Officer's, and EV Suit, with some Tech and XP Boosts.
So my only guess for the Vizier, given that some pay +150-200.00 to trade keys for Lockbox ship or R&D Ships, that is for a single character; my only guess it's them 'testing' to see as they claimed if perhaps 'a few' Lockbox ships perhaps (not) everyone however might be account-wide in future? I'd certainly see them mixing it up with the Top End Ships still being single character; yet a few secondary Prize Ship options being Account-Wide. I know it certainly makes sense for Phoenix Event Ships, yet that is just a guess so we'll have to wait and see?
140 dollars for a t6 non-fleet cruiser is obviously a joke, we only pay that kind of money for Lobi ships. See, I can be subtle too.
In other news...
Has anyone seen the dil market? When has dil ever hit the cap of 500/zen? I'm gonna play a lot this weekend, because it feels like something bad is coming.
Yep. It's hit the cap a few times in the past. It's not just the Mudd's Market that's causing this. Key sale, with an upgrade weekend thrown on top.
The only time it got close to cap was on June 30, 2016 at 490. It stayed high until July 14th.
Again I think anybody who sells DIL for more than 350-375:1, well they are just giving it away, it takes too long and you work too hard to earn it, as the person above also noted.
I will admit, the Free Episode/Event Devices items are way over-priced, but the price of everything is okay I suppose, however I will point out the price of the new Faction Elite Starter packs, which are 2k Zen, saving about 1.5k on the full price and it has a T6 in it!
Yea as I stated above I thought the Bridge Officer pricing even at FULL price is a reasonable ask; but it depends how many character's you play.
Comments
As the Command & Chief of the PC STO 101st Fleet, please see my official response regarding this “incident”.
Needless to say, I am extremely angry and disappointed over this advertisement strategy and marketing. Exactly how Cryptic could not see what this would cause is beyond me.
This has caused an uproar in the community at the worst possible time. As we approach the 10th anniversary we need unity and to come together, not be driven apart from the actions of a few at the top of the command chain.
What's worse, is that many members of Cryptic who were not part of this decision will get a lot of blowback from the community. This is especially sad considering some of the brilliant hard work and time they put into this game.
They don’t deserve this. They don’t deserve their hard work to be tainted by those in command.
@baddmoonrizin I hearby request that through your channels at cryptic that you request the CEO of Cryptic studios for its STO division appear in person in the next livestream to explain his actions. Frankly, he would have been in the loop for this decision and most likely would have signed off on it as well.
While I am more than aware of how busy a CEO is, frankly if he doesn’t show or make an official statement himself, he will show to the community how dismissive he sees this problem. His reputation (a bit unjust i think personally) is already low in the community and the last thing he needs is something else for the community to add to their list of grievances. This issue overrides what work he currently has, and he needs to come to the community and answers questions frankly.
Cryptic won’t be forgotten about what they did in this situation for a long time. However, it will be your actions after this that will define how this incident is remember in the community.
You are in the command chair Cryptic, as I am leading a fleet. Our actions and responses define how we are seen.
Command is never easy, but you sat in that chair. Now is time for you to show us how you lead your crew and community in adversity.
Fleet Admiral @Foxman86, 101st Fleet, USS Zuikaku NCC-93522
but this was not the proper execution.
Here's a few ways to actually make the joke more clear:
Also, I've seen people mentioning 14k zen ($140) for a ship is insane. You do realize lockbox ships typically cost much more... and those are only single character?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Yes, they need more stuff in the GPL store.
The Devs broke my sense of humor when they removed the Pheonix Box on Upgrade weekend.
Artwork for Sale:
https://www.deviantart.com/borgking001a/store/
https://www.renderosity.com/?uid=883914
https://www.redbubble.com/people/borgking001a
That "might have been" an understatement.
This while funny to some has left a very bad taste and impression.
Aside from someone like Andre Emerson (EP) or Al Rivera (HeadDev) giving some attempt at explanation and apology for the TRIBBLE poor execution of their "joke" I can't see them making this better. Certainly , the forum Mods are not going to be able to properly play defense on this. One, it's not their job and two, they are volunteer mods (who nice as they sometimes are) Are NOT Cryptic employees.
This is not the kind of thing that gets forgotten. It gets glossed over and not talked about after a time, but customers don't forget nonsense like this.
That's not funny. I'm not normally one to jump on the "refund" bandwagon, but this? This was too much, guys. The C-store is not the place to be making jokes like that, especially when the only hint that it was was a joke is Mudd's reputation. Considering that in every mechanical respect the Mudd's Market tab appeared to operate just the same as the rest of the C-store, that was not enough of a hint.
Not amusing.
I know I didn't get it. Given the 2-million-dil costumes in the Dilithium Store, I didn't consider it at all out of the question that Cryptic would price C-store items so high. Outrageous, yes, but hardly unbelievable.
As I said above, I would not have spent the zen I did had I known this was a "joke".
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Psst...it's a game.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
In other news...
Has anyone seen the dil market? When has dil ever hit the cap of 500/zen? I'm gonna play a lot this weekend, because it feels like something bad is coming.
Yep. It's hit the cap a few times in the past. It's not just the Mudd's Market that's causing this. Key sale, with an upgrade weekend thrown on top.
The only time it got close to cap was on June 30, 2016 at 490. It stayed high until July 14th.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
They can't remove something that wasn't a pair before.
Occasionally they had a Phoenix event with an upgrade weekend, but it was far from the normal.
If anything, the typical pattern is Upgrade weekend, then Phoenix event after that.
Uhm, dude. Seriously? If you didn't understand that Mudd's reputation is terrible at best, then that's on you. Come on! Also, have you ever seen a single ship at 14,000 zen before? Besides, since you cannot get that ship any other way, that "original" 14,000 isn't far fetched per se. Personally, I may or may not get it. If I don't, it's because I could not care about the specs, nor the consoles associated with the set.
When literally everything else suggests that the prices given are legitimately intended, the "joke" just comes across as an in-universe explanation, not a hint that the prices are not meant to be taken seriously. And no, I haven't seen a single ship that expensive before--but then I would've said much the same about certain uniforms some time back. After they set a price of two million dilithium for those--which, I might point out, are single-character unlocks--it didn't remotely surprise me that Cryptic would put up account-unlock items at such prices in the C-store.
And yes, 14,000 zen is farfetched. When the idea is to make items that were previously essentially impossible for most players to get widely available, putting them at the price of packs that would have as many as ten ships plus various other perks in them does seem somewhat unreasonable. In practice, that's just as out of reach for the average player as the special means required to get the items before.
The chickens have come home to roost.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
Also pretty disgusting that they're being shown as on a 75% "sale" when they are apparently limited time and never going to be sold at the 14k for a single ship nonsense. This is the same keech bugthesda got into bother for with seasonal festive tat in failout76.
F2P Greedonomics at its worst.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
The EMH for the Phoenix Box is a Duty Officer, who was part of the Delta Rising episode rewards. The Bridge Officer version was one of the thank you gifts for those who attended conventions (and also one of the prizes that was offered for those who entered online contests during that period).
No, there's an actual EMH BOff you can get from the Phoenix store. Got one for a KDF character a couple weeks ago. I think the difference is that the Phoenix version is single-character unlock, whereas the Mudd's Market one is account unlock. ...At least I should hope it is, at that price.
Yea I admit I won't sell DIL either for anything more than 350:1 now their may be some willing to SELL or give it away, but I stop selling DIL just as you when they want more. So just as they say in Mudd's Market I'd offer, "Only a fool sell's DIL for more than 350:1 - 375:1".
The balancing force however is # buyers and quantities verses sellers and quantities.
Back to Mudd.
I think honestly thought the problem is the FULL price is 1.25-2.5x higher (depending on item) than 95% of the player base will pay.
The one exception I'd say is the Bridge Officer pricing is very fair, given they are reclaimable for each character, not 600 ZEN like several others. The exceptions are the Cyborg MW & Kling MW Bridge Officer's which are also account-wide as is 0718 for FED's!
Of course that is just my opinion, but apparently even they agree?
"Only a sucker would buy this at full price..." So I guess they are trying to portray Mudd as his character a true Villian, and we 'might' see a few sales once the Introductory sale is off for possibly slightly more, yet will vary after the initial sale depending on sales, he might also choose to instead delist a few items at different times or swapping out some items for new ones for sale, so only purchased items are reclaimable.
I'm mostly confused about the Vizier Price for the Command Assault Cruiser at 14000 ZEN; only cause the entire Gamma Vanguard Pack is 13000 (if you got the Vanguard Starter pack) and it includes, 6 T6 Starships (with Traits when earned) and 3 T5 Starships upgradable to T5U; if you already have the Starship Traits then T5U Ships are just as effective. That's like getting 2 T6 Ships for Free + the several other bundled items. Cause remember it also includes the Playable Cardassian race which have a nice Personal Space Trait, and they throw in 3 Gamma Vanguard Bridge Officer's, and EV Suit, with some Tech and XP Boosts.
So my only guess for the Vizier, given that some pay +150-200.00 to trade keys for Lockbox ship or R&D Ships, that is for a single character; my only guess it's them 'testing' to see as they claimed if perhaps 'a few' Lockbox ships perhaps (not) everyone however might be account-wide in future? I'd certainly see them mixing it up with the Top End Ships still being single character; yet a few secondary Prize Ship options being Account-Wide. I know it certainly makes sense for Phoenix Event Ships, yet that is just a guess so we'll have to wait and see?
Again I think anybody who sells DIL for more than 350-375:1, well they are just giving it away, it takes too long and you work too hard to earn it, as the person above also noted.
Yea as I stated above I thought the Bridge Officer pricing even at FULL price is a reasonable ask; but it depends how many character's you play.
continued