OK, folks, we are not about to start making wild, unsubstantiated, and slanderous accusations here. Keep this civil or this thread will be closed like the last one.
That being said, we've already been in contact with the devs about this and the "regular" prices are supposed to be an in-universe reference to Mudd being a salesman/con man. We're hoping to get an official statement from them on Facebook/Twitter confirming this so that we can link it back here.
Please don't set fire to the forum. Thank you.
ok, in game or in the tv show, Mudd's is a salesman/con man, but why the prices in the cstore should reflect the personality of this guy?
A ) it's a theme store
B ) To get more zen from those who can't wait for sales, just like many stores in the real world.
I shop at Land's End, but never buy at list price since 30% - 40% off sales are common.
From the NEWS post:
"But Mudd follows the market, and there may be times where he has a lot of stock to unload, or he feels the demand is too low for an item. There will, without warning, be drastic sales on these items, so it’s important to check the Market every day to see if the item you’re seeking is on sale! "
do you expect to see the prices being under their current levels? me, no. And even, if the price of the dino is 2000 zen, damn', this is too expensive. 500 zen is a correct price, like the other pets.
While it is high price, the fact that the Zen Exchange price hit the roof (even with start of the upgrade weekend) argues, that there are players that are buying the stuff at current prices - or they are just preparing for Black Friday.
And while I do not know what the combat Dino or the BOFFs are worth, they should be not at the same price as the combat pets and BOFFs in "normal Zen store" - because the normal pets and BOFFs are single purchases, and here we have account unlocks.
I do not argue that anyone that already has the account unlocked items should be buying it, but I do not think, that account unlocks should be priced in range 400-500 Zen (for the BOFFs and the dino).
I got 20 alts on my account, that means I got 20 possible of each BOFF (plus any that I turn into manual).
If I would be buying 20 separate BOFFs from Zen store, how much it would cost me ?
And there is no way that I could get the Leeta for free - they were given on Trek meetings (or whatever they were called), and me getting a ride to them would propably cost more than the price of Zen to get the BOFFs now.
I will not argue about legality, or if the prices actually make sense, but people - it is just a game, and if the price for the stuff is too high - then just do not buy it.
UK law states that goods must be offered for sale at the higher price for 28 days.
That's why companies start selling stuff at stupid prices with no expectation of sales a month before any 'sale' starts. Makes the discount look great when it isn't. In the UK for 'real' sales on non-pixel stuff they love prosecuting companies who don't stick to the rules. Not sure if it applies to pixel currencies like Zen but it seems to be on thin ice and a potential PR/trust issue.
From what I've seen it's all ridiculously priced.
If that is true, then every previous ship sale in the last few months would be illegal, because they always came with a special "introductory" pricing and denoted this as a sale.
But I figure it's not actually illegal, because the price is Zen. Zen is not an actual accepted currency in the UK, US or anywhere else. It's monopoly or game money. You can do with gaming currencies whatever you want. That's probably one of the reasons why games like STO use these fake game currencies, to isolate gameplay mechanics from legal repercussions.
If someone in EVE comes up with a pyramid scheme, he can't be sued for it, even though Plex can be purchased with real world money and a pyramid scheme using real world money would be illegal.
IANAL, tough. Maybe I am wrong. If you want to sue, consult with a professional.
Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
MyPillow got in trouble and lost its Better Business Bureau Rating because they always sold their Pillows at Buy One Get One Free and never sold them individually.
They took care of that by having single Pillow prices. I don't think they have gotten their BBB Rating back.
Post edited by ltminns on
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
As the Command & Chief of the PC STO 101st Fleet, please see my official response regarding this “incident”.
Needless to say, I am extremely angry and disappointed over this advertisement strategy and marketing. Exactly how Cryptic could not see what this would cause is beyond me.
This has caused an uproar in the community at the worst possible time. As we approach the 10th anniversary we need unity and to come together, not be driven apart from the actions of a few at the top of the command chain.
What's worse, is that many members of Cryptic who were not part of this decision will get a lot of blowback from the community. This is especially sad considering some of the brilliant hard work and time they put into this game.
They don’t deserve this. They don’t deserve their hard work to be tainted by those in command.
@baddmoonrizin I hearby request that through your channels at cryptic that you request the CEO of Cryptic studios for its STO division appear in person in the next livestream to explain his actions. Frankly, he would have been in the loop for this decision and most likely would have signed off on it as well.
While I am more than aware of how busy a CEO is, frankly if he doesn’t show or make an official statement himself, he will show to the community how dismissive he sees this problem. His reputation (a bit unjust i think personally) is already low in the community and the last thing he needs is something else for the community to add to their list of grievances. This issue overrides what work he currently has, and he needs to come to the community and answers questions frankly.
Cryptic won’t be forgotten about what they did in this situation for a long time. However, it will be your actions after this that will define how this incident is remember in the community.
You are in the command chair Cryptic, as I am leading a fleet. Our actions and responses define how we are seen.
Command is never easy, but you sat in that chair. Now is time for you to show us how you lead your crew and community in adversity.
Fleet Admiral @Foxman86, 101st Fleet, USS Zuikaku NCC-93522
I can appreciate a good joke, and the in-lore linking...
but this was not the proper execution.
Here's a few ways to actually make the joke more clear:
Don't show any Mudd Store items in any other C-Store section, not even "New Items" or "On Sale"
Don't show the "full price" in Zen. Make it some other currency, like 10 billion GPL (something impossible to acquire). I realize this point might be hard to accomplish, depending on the codebase of the store.
Basically don't make it look like a legitimate sale in any way (even if the prices are absurd)
Also, I've seen people mentioning 14k zen ($140) for a ship is insane. You do realize lockbox ships typically cost much more... and those are only single character?
I realize it's not 2020 yet, so the humor of hindsight might not be completely ripe yet. However, in retrospect, undermining the consumer base's trust in the stability of C-store pricing to make a joke might have been a poor decision. It would be wise to make a PR statement sooner, rather than later, to quell the confusion and outrage.
@baddmoonrizin I hearby request that through your channels at cryptic that you request the CEO of Cryptic studios for its STO division appear in person in the next livestream to explain his actions.
I realize it's not 2020 yet, so the humor of hindsight might not be completely ripe yet. However, in retrospect, undermining the consumer base's trust in the stability of C-store pricing to make a joke might have been a poor decision. It would be wise to make a PR statement sooner, rather than later, to quell the confusion and outrage.
The Devs broke my sense of humor when they removed the Pheonix Box on Upgrade weekend.
undermining the consumer base's trust in the stability of C-store pricing to make a joke might have been a poor decision.
That "might have been" an understatement.
This while funny to some has left a very bad taste and impression.
Aside from someone like Andre Emerson (EP) or Al Rivera (HeadDev) giving some attempt at explanation and apology for the TRIBBLE poor execution of their "joke" I can't see them making this better. Certainly , the forum Mods are not going to be able to properly play defense on this. One, it's not their job and two, they are volunteer mods (who nice as they sometimes are) Are NOT Cryptic employees.
This is not the kind of thing that gets forgotten. It gets glossed over and not talked about after a time, but customers don't forget nonsense like this.
A joke. So... I logged into my account from a friend's computer--since I still can't from mine--and spent 3500 zen on the Vizier because of how insane the "regular" price was. Zen I was intended to use for something else Black Friday, as the Vizier was a fairly low priority for me, but with that price it was "now or never". And it turned out to be a joke?
That's not funny. I'm not normally one to jump on the "refund" bandwagon, but this? This was too much, guys. The C-store is not the place to be making jokes like that, especially when the only hint that it was was a joke is Mudd's reputation. Considering that in every mechanical respect the Mudd's Market tab appeared to operate just the same as the rest of the C-store, that was not enough of a hint.
Orginal prices are obviously meant as a joke but it's a poor one given how many stores actually do increase their 'original prices' prior to Black Friday to later claim huge discounts. Also, not everybody might get the joke and feel cheated when they find out that this huge, and appearantly timed discount was never real.
Orginal prices are obviously meant as a joke but it's a poor one given how many stores actually do increase their 'original prices' prior to Black Friday to later claim huge discounts. Also, not everybody might get the joke and feel cheated when they find out that this huge, and appearantly timed discount was never real.
I know I didn't get it. Given the 2-million-dil costumes in the Dilithium Store, I didn't consider it at all out of the question that Cryptic would price C-store items so high. Outrageous, yes, but hardly unbelievable.
As I said above, I would not have spent the zen I did had I known this was a "joke".
OK, folks, once again I'm going to say not to be making wild, unsubstantiated, and slanderous accusations here. I know that people are feeling a certain way about this, but letting your emotions get the best of yourselves and violating forum rules will do you no good. So, please, let's keep things civil. Thank you.
Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
Mudd's Market is a dumb idea. Everything in that market could have been placed in the Phoenix lock Box. Which is what the player base really wanted anyway. Unless Cryptic reverses this they will lose players.
The joke ends where the law regarding sales practices begins. If they want to make the joke, make it in a blog post, not in the store.
Psst...it's a game.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
I can fry bacon off all the heat that this has generated, coupled with the dilithium-exchange prices being what they are right now. It's maxed out and holding strong at the moment!
140 dollars for a t6 non-fleet cruiser is obviously a joke, we only pay that kind of money for Lobi ships. See, I can be subtle too.
In other news...
Has anyone seen the dil market? When has dil ever hit the cap of 500/zen? I'm gonna play a lot this weekend, because it feels like something bad is coming.
140 dollars for a t6 non-fleet cruiser is obviously a joke, we only pay that kind of money for Lobi ships. See, I can be subtle too.
In other news...
Has anyone seen the dil market? When has dil ever hit the cap of 500/zen? I'm gonna play a lot this weekend, because it feels like something bad is coming.
Yep. It's hit the cap a few times in the past. It's not just the Mudd's Market that's causing this. Key sale, with an upgrade weekend thrown on top.
140 dollars for a t6 non-fleet cruiser is obviously a joke, we only pay that kind of money for Lobi ships. See, I can be subtle too.
In other news...
Has anyone seen the dil market? When has dil ever hit the cap of 500/zen? I'm gonna play a lot this weekend, because it feels like something bad is coming.
Yep. It's hit the cap a few times in the past. It's not just the Mudd's Market that's causing this. Key sale, with an upgrade weekend thrown on top.
The only time it got close to cap was on June 30, 2016 at 490. It stayed high until July 14th.
Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
The Devs broke my sense of humor when they removed the Pheonix Box on Upgrade weekend.
They can't remove something that wasn't a pair before.
Occasionally they had a Phoenix event with an upgrade weekend, but it was far from the normal.
If anything, the typical pattern is Upgrade weekend, then Phoenix event after that.
A joke. So... I logged into my account from a friend's computer--since I still can't from mine--and spent 3500 zen on the Vizier because of how insane the "regular" price was. Zen I was intended to use for something else Black Friday, as the Vizier was a fairly low priority for me, but with that price it was "now or never". And it turned out to be a joke?
That's not funny. I'm not normally one to jump on the "refund" bandwagon, but this? This was too much, guys. The C-store is not the place to be making jokes like that, especially when the only hint that it was was a joke is Mudd's reputation. Considering that in every mechanical respect the Mudd's Market tab appeared to operate just the same as the rest of the C-store, that was not enough of a hint.
Not amusing.
Uhm, dude. Seriously? If you didn't understand that Mudd's reputation is terrible at best, then that's on you. Come on! Also, have you ever seen a single ship at 14,000 zen before? Besides, since you cannot get that ship any other way, that "original" 14,000 isn't far fetched per se. Personally, I may or may not get it. If I don't, it's because I could not care about the specs, nor the consoles associated with the set.
A joke. So... I logged into my account from a friend's computer--since I still can't from mine--and spent 3500 zen on the Vizier because of how insane the "regular" price was. Zen I was intended to use for something else Black Friday, as the Vizier was a fairly low priority for me, but with that price it was "now or never". And it turned out to be a joke?
That's not funny. I'm not normally one to jump on the "refund" bandwagon, but this? This was too much, guys. The C-store is not the place to be making jokes like that, especially when the only hint that it was was a joke is Mudd's reputation. Considering that in every mechanical respect the Mudd's Market tab appeared to operate just the same as the rest of the C-store, that was not enough of a hint.
Not amusing.
Uhm, dude. Seriously? If you didn't understand that Mudd's reputation is terrible at best, then that's on you. Come on! Also, have you ever seen a single ship at 14,000 zen before? Besides, since you cannot get that ship any other way, that "original" 14,000 isn't far fetched per se. Personally, I may or may not get it. If I don't, it's because I could not care about the specs, nor the consoles associated with the set.
When literally everything else suggests that the prices given are legitimately intended, the "joke" just comes across as an in-universe explanation, not a hint that the prices are not meant to be taken seriously. And no, I haven't seen a single ship that expensive before--but then I would've said much the same about certain uniforms some time back. After they set a price of two million dilithium for those--which, I might point out, are single-character unlocks--it didn't remotely surprise me that Cryptic would put up account-unlock items at such prices in the C-store.
And yes, 14,000 zen is farfetched. When the idea is to make items that were previously essentially impossible for most players to get widely available, putting them at the price of packs that would have as many as ten ships plus various other perks in them does seem somewhat unreasonable. In practice, that's just as out of reach for the average player as the special means required to get the items before.
Comments
While it is high price, the fact that the Zen Exchange price hit the roof (even with start of the upgrade weekend) argues, that there are players that are buying the stuff at current prices - or they are just preparing for Black Friday.
And while I do not know what the combat Dino or the BOFFs are worth, they should be not at the same price as the combat pets and BOFFs in "normal Zen store" - because the normal pets and BOFFs are single purchases, and here we have account unlocks.
I do not argue that anyone that already has the account unlocked items should be buying it, but I do not think, that account unlocks should be priced in range 400-500 Zen (for the BOFFs and the dino).
I got 20 alts on my account, that means I got 20 possible of each BOFF (plus any that I turn into manual).
If I would be buying 20 separate BOFFs from Zen store, how much it would cost me ?
And there is no way that I could get the Leeta for free - they were given on Trek meetings (or whatever they were called), and me getting a ride to them would propably cost more than the price of Zen to get the BOFFs now.
I will not argue about legality, or if the prices actually make sense, but people - it is just a game, and if the price for the stuff is too high - then just do not buy it.
If that is true, then every previous ship sale in the last few months would be illegal, because they always came with a special "introductory" pricing and denoted this as a sale.
But I figure it's not actually illegal, because the price is Zen. Zen is not an actual accepted currency in the UK, US or anywhere else. It's monopoly or game money. You can do with gaming currencies whatever you want. That's probably one of the reasons why games like STO use these fake game currencies, to isolate gameplay mechanics from legal repercussions.
If someone in EVE comes up with a pyramid scheme, he can't be sued for it, even though Plex can be purchased with real world money and a pyramid scheme using real world money would be illegal.
IANAL, tough. Maybe I am wrong. If you want to sue, consult with a professional.
They took care of that by having single Pillow prices. I don't think they have gotten their BBB Rating back.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
***edit***
Correction: I really really really love this!
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
As the Command & Chief of the PC STO 101st Fleet, please see my official response regarding this “incident”.
Needless to say, I am extremely angry and disappointed over this advertisement strategy and marketing. Exactly how Cryptic could not see what this would cause is beyond me.
This has caused an uproar in the community at the worst possible time. As we approach the 10th anniversary we need unity and to come together, not be driven apart from the actions of a few at the top of the command chain.
What's worse, is that many members of Cryptic who were not part of this decision will get a lot of blowback from the community. This is especially sad considering some of the brilliant hard work and time they put into this game.
They don’t deserve this. They don’t deserve their hard work to be tainted by those in command.
@baddmoonrizin I hearby request that through your channels at cryptic that you request the CEO of Cryptic studios for its STO division appear in person in the next livestream to explain his actions. Frankly, he would have been in the loop for this decision and most likely would have signed off on it as well.
While I am more than aware of how busy a CEO is, frankly if he doesn’t show or make an official statement himself, he will show to the community how dismissive he sees this problem. His reputation (a bit unjust i think personally) is already low in the community and the last thing he needs is something else for the community to add to their list of grievances. This issue overrides what work he currently has, and he needs to come to the community and answers questions frankly.
Cryptic won’t be forgotten about what they did in this situation for a long time. However, it will be your actions after this that will define how this incident is remember in the community.
You are in the command chair Cryptic, as I am leading a fleet. Our actions and responses define how we are seen.
Command is never easy, but you sat in that chair. Now is time for you to show us how you lead your crew and community in adversity.
Fleet Admiral @Foxman86, 101st Fleet, USS Zuikaku NCC-93522
but this was not the proper execution.
Here's a few ways to actually make the joke more clear:
Also, I've seen people mentioning 14k zen ($140) for a ship is insane. You do realize lockbox ships typically cost much more... and those are only single character?
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Yes, they need more stuff in the GPL store.
The Devs broke my sense of humor when they removed the Pheonix Box on Upgrade weekend.
Artwork for Sale:
https://www.deviantart.com/borgking001a/store/
https://www.renderosity.com/?uid=883914
https://www.redbubble.com/people/borgking001a
That "might have been" an understatement.
This while funny to some has left a very bad taste and impression.
Aside from someone like Andre Emerson (EP) or Al Rivera (HeadDev) giving some attempt at explanation and apology for the TRIBBLE poor execution of their "joke" I can't see them making this better. Certainly , the forum Mods are not going to be able to properly play defense on this. One, it's not their job and two, they are volunteer mods (who nice as they sometimes are) Are NOT Cryptic employees.
This is not the kind of thing that gets forgotten. It gets glossed over and not talked about after a time, but customers don't forget nonsense like this.
That's not funny. I'm not normally one to jump on the "refund" bandwagon, but this? This was too much, guys. The C-store is not the place to be making jokes like that, especially when the only hint that it was was a joke is Mudd's reputation. Considering that in every mechanical respect the Mudd's Market tab appeared to operate just the same as the rest of the C-store, that was not enough of a hint.
Not amusing.
I know I didn't get it. Given the 2-million-dil costumes in the Dilithium Store, I didn't consider it at all out of the question that Cryptic would price C-store items so high. Outrageous, yes, but hardly unbelievable.
As I said above, I would not have spent the zen I did had I known this was a "joke".
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Psst...it's a game.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
In other news...
Has anyone seen the dil market? When has dil ever hit the cap of 500/zen? I'm gonna play a lot this weekend, because it feels like something bad is coming.
Yep. It's hit the cap a few times in the past. It's not just the Mudd's Market that's causing this. Key sale, with an upgrade weekend thrown on top.
The only time it got close to cap was on June 30, 2016 at 490. It stayed high until July 14th.
"With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."
They can't remove something that wasn't a pair before.
Occasionally they had a Phoenix event with an upgrade weekend, but it was far from the normal.
If anything, the typical pattern is Upgrade weekend, then Phoenix event after that.
Uhm, dude. Seriously? If you didn't understand that Mudd's reputation is terrible at best, then that's on you. Come on! Also, have you ever seen a single ship at 14,000 zen before? Besides, since you cannot get that ship any other way, that "original" 14,000 isn't far fetched per se. Personally, I may or may not get it. If I don't, it's because I could not care about the specs, nor the consoles associated with the set.
When literally everything else suggests that the prices given are legitimately intended, the "joke" just comes across as an in-universe explanation, not a hint that the prices are not meant to be taken seriously. And no, I haven't seen a single ship that expensive before--but then I would've said much the same about certain uniforms some time back. After they set a price of two million dilithium for those--which, I might point out, are single-character unlocks--it didn't remotely surprise me that Cryptic would put up account-unlock items at such prices in the C-store.
And yes, 14,000 zen is farfetched. When the idea is to make items that were previously essentially impossible for most players to get widely available, putting them at the price of packs that would have as many as ten ships plus various other perks in them does seem somewhat unreasonable. In practice, that's just as out of reach for the average player as the special means required to get the items before.