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Next year's story arc to "change the face of the game"

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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,685 Arc User
    ltminns wrote: »
    Only two years in-game??!! That can't be, I've helped kill the Crystalline Entity hundreds of times, helped save Starbase 234 hundreds of times, killed thousands of Borg on Defera, cleared Kobali Prime of Vaadwaur hundreds of times.....

    Got promoted from Cadet to Fleet Admiral, earned the undying respect from twelve different Reputation groups, became a Master Crafter in ten different Schools, became a Diplomat.....

    Nah, it has to be more than two years!! ;)

    Relativity is a TRIBBLE, ain't it? ;)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • redvengeredvenge Member Posts: 1,425 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    Considering he already took back the whole "change the face of the game" -quote and admitted it's just some backstory, I wonder the same. It was just an exaggeration, nothing's gonna come out of it.

    By the time something gets released, I expect only people who even remember the whole line will be the posters of the obligatory "I'm disappointed" -threads, who will complain nothing changed.
    "Change the face of the game" sets expectations that... what is coming will change the face of the game. If it's a bloodless Iconian War 2.0, then I can see where disappointment may set in. "Change the face of the game" is a big expectation. Like "it's a new faction" sets an expectation.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    And I'll have an obligatory facedesk at those threads.
    Should posters just ignore Geko then? Never have any expectations based on communication from Cryptic?

    Let's just assume everything that Cryptic puts out is automatically going to be terrible. Then, we have no expectations and cannot be disappointed. Problem solved.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,292 Arc User
    You totally misinterpreted what was said. The first part was about wasting time on a vague partially taken back Tweet from Geko. Better to wait until something more concrete from him at STLV.

    The 'facedesk' comment was directed to the inevitable creation of Threads after the STLV announcement relates to the backstory and NOT the workings of the game itself from people that only remember the original 'face of the game' and not the corrected backstory angle.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
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  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,338 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    It's sensational comments like "It's gonna change the face of the game" that play to the hopes of many in this community. And they KNOW it, which is why they do it. No amount of back-walking they will help once the speculation takes on a life of its own, even if they try to head it off.

    But simply saying "Next year, we're going to change the game's backstory" just doesn't sound all that interesting, compared to saying "Next year's story arc is going to change the face of the game." For me, the former results in a shoulder shrug, followed by a muttered "Whatever." The latter, however, made me sit up straighter and wonder what systemic improvements and additions wrapped around next year's story are coming that will make the game become more engaging for me as a player.

    It's just like the announcement for a season that was supposed to get us back to exploration. They took exploration out. the idea of getting back TO exploration suggested that they were about to make good on the IMPLIED eventual replacement of exploration. But that is NOT what we got. We just got more of the same "if it moves then kill it" BS we've been getting all along.

    Perhaps if they would just say what they mean from the start, they can get an accurate pulse reading of their customers before they commit all their resources to doing something. Even if that means that the general response is "Meh..."

    What they are doing amounts to shouting "Hey everyone, we've got some awesome news!" Everyone waits with baited breath. "The convenient store down the street from our office has Twinkies on sale at half off!" Who the hell freaking cares?
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,032 Community Moderator
    redvenge wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    And I'll have an obligatory facedesk at those threads.
    Should posters just ignore Geko then? Never have any expectations based on communication from Cryptic?

    Let's just assume everything that Cryptic puts out is automatically going to be terrible. Then, we have no expectations and cannot be disappointed. Problem solved.

    No... the post you quoted was how I would react to how others would react. Not directed at Cryptic whatsoever.
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  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,685 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    warpangel wrote: »
    Should posters just ignore Geko then? Never have any expectations based on communication from Cryptic?
    ^^^
    That's probably the best option. The man has been throwing STO EP's under the bus since the days of denial Stahl when he claimed in a STOked interview that Dan didn't know as much as he did when it came to the state of STO and that the new (at that time) Klingon First City wouldn't make it into the upcoming Season patch even though Daniel Stahl had publicly said it would a day earlier (and the STO forums erupted NEGATIVELY as a result of said comments...

    But guess what - Al Rivera was of course wrong (and not the first time of the last time this has happened where he's incorrectly contradicted an STO EP's public statement) in his assessment and the revamped Klingon First City DID make it in just fine to said Season patch.
    ^^^
    Again the above is just on of many existing examples.

    If there's one thing you can count on in any Al Rivera interview, it;'s that he'll usually find a way to stick his foot in his mouth. There's a reason he's one of the Devs who's been with Cryptic the longest; yet has never been promoted to EP of STO. Even though you can tell he often THINKS he is.

    Post edited by crypticarmsman on
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    redvenge wrote: »
    warpangel wrote: »
    Considering he already took back the whole "change the face of the game" -quote and admitted it's just some backstory, I wonder the same. It was just an exaggeration, nothing's gonna come out of it.

    By the time something gets released, I expect only people who even remember the whole line will be the posters of the obligatory "I'm disappointed" -threads, who will complain nothing changed.
    "Change the face of the game" sets expectations that... what is coming will change the face of the game. If it's a bloodless Iconian War 2.0, then I can see where disappointment may set in. "Change the face of the game" is a big expectation. Like "it's a new faction" sets an expectation.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    And I'll have an obligatory facedesk at those threads.
    Should posters just ignore Geko then? Never have any expectations based on communication from Cryptic?

    Let's just assume everything that Cryptic puts out is automatically going to be terrible. Then, we have no expectations and cannot be disappointed. Problem solved.
    When they themselves admit that a particular statement was exaggerated or misunderstood, yes. "Change the face of the game" is indeed a big expectation. Which is likely why he clarified that he was only talking about story/backstory and the gameplay will not change.

    My expectation, based on that clarification, is that it's going to be just some minor lore retcons (probably in response to the new Trek shows) and won't actually change anything I would call "the face of the game."
  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    But story is much much much more important than gameplay and makes the biggest difference.

    I would argue that alteration to the story is changing the face of the game depending on how extensive the changes are.

    Gameplay changes are not really that to me. They're just tweaks and not important, gameplay should serve the story. Story is the most important thing for a game.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,416 Arc User
    Well, one of the most often heard complaints is that content gets more boring after having played it multiple times. So perhaps it is something that finally allows us to change the outcome of the story based on the options we choose in dialogue and so on?
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  • hesuspino72#6173 hesuspino72 Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    just fyi if not said all ready, he said that exploration system is no go. sure in future... maybe... but not now.
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,685 Arc User
    just fyi if not said all ready, he said that exploration system is no go. sure in future... maybe... but not now.

    I'm sure it's on the list of things to do...right after:

    "Update and expand on the STO Web Gateway..."

    and

    "Finish the Foundry..."

    (and yes, just in case, the above is indeed sarcasm as I know the status of both the above) ;)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    "BWAAAAH! You said the word 'Disneyland' last week and I thought you meant you were gonna take me even though you said you were talking about something else, so now you have to take me to Disneyland or I'm gonna cry!"

    Or we could, you know, be grown-ups about it.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,288 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    "BWAAAAH! You said the word 'Disneyland' last week and I thought you meant you were gonna take me even though you said you were talking about something else, so now you have to take me to Disneyland or I'm gonna cry!"

    Or we could, you know, be grown-ups about it.
    Nah, more fun to kick and scream and demand the impossible.
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  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,338 Arc User
    warpangel wrote: »
    "BWAAAAH! You said the word 'Disneyland' last week and I thought you meant you were gonna take me even though you said you were talking about something else, so now you have to take me to Disneyland or I'm gonna cry!"

    Or we could, you know, be grown-ups about it.

    Hey...

    They want me to spend money on this game, right?

    Well, when they say things in such a way that it makes it sound like something that might make me consider doing so is coming, I sit up and take notice. And when I find out that it really isn't going to be something that might make me consider spending some money, then I get annoyed.

    Look... I can afford to buy every single item on the C-store. I can afford to plunk down money on keys to open lockboxes. But the thing is that it's mostly all fluff. And it still takes them forever to push out new mission content. So what am I supposed to do with that new ship I buy between content patches?

    Oh yeah: Do the same stuff over and over.

    They will never be able to create content fast enough to stay ahead of or even keep up with how fast the players consume it. So is it wrong to hope for the addition of meaningful and engaging systems that would keep me in the game long enough that I wouldn't mind spending money on fluff?

    That's why I advocate an exploration SYSTEM facilitated from our ship interiors. Right freaking there two birds would be killed with one stone. Those wanting the sense of exploring the galaxy and discovering new stuff AND something meaningful to do with ship interiors would have it. And with meaningful stuff to do with ship interiors would come an interest in interior packs sold on the C-store. And those interior packs could be showcased in game via missions that involve beaming over to starships. "Hey this is cool. Wish my ship interior looked like that. What? I can buy that interior design on the C-Store? Take my money!"

    And here's an idea... When releasing a ship on the store or in a lockbox, Release it with a unique default bridge and interior layout. After all, with interiors being the gateway to an actual gameplay system and everything connected with it being facilitated there, then it would be worth the investment of time, right?

    Give us a reason and we'll use it.

    More than half of any given Star Trek episode takes place on board the ship. And yet we have zero reason to visit ours. Tie a major game system like exploration, and then we will. Give us Foundry Lite and tie it to the Holodeck and Holonovel writing. Share maps and assets from other Cryptic games for holodeck settings. Another system that would use interiors...

    I came up with that in the space of five minutes, and yet the "professionals" at cryptic can't think of something useful for interiors in years?

    Puh….LEASE!
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,292 Arc User
    The story Arc will have us exploring the Quadrants to find a Debigulator to reduce the Discovery Constitution (better known as The Miracle Worker Flight Deck Crusier) to the size of the TOS Constitution (better known as The Temporal Light Crusier). :)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • giannicampanellagiannicampanella Member Posts: 424 Arc User
    edited June 2019
    ^^ @sirsitsalot -- I think that's basically a great idea to generate ship interior revenue and open up a new angle of gameplay without too much work. Just have ship interiors give you randomized away team missions, and you can invite teams to your ship, walk to the transporter room & beam down to a randomized dungeon/planet, pew pew boom boom, get XP & dil. It feels more Trekkie and ground is underutilized, and maybe addressing the improvement of ground is what Al Rivera is talking about. Alternatively, albeit on a related note, recasting the tac, sci, and eng factions to make team cooperation more necessary would also address the long-standing player wish to simulate the diverse crew roles in Trek more (i.e. make sci scans and engi repairs absolutely necessary to beat a PvE boss, so tac dps isn't the only thing that matters).

    My best guess is the big change will be Picard & faction related. I think the new show's plot will have the majority of Romulan refugees integrate with the Klingon Empire, rather than the Federation. Perhaps, therefore, they will combine the KDF with the Romulan Republic and maybe the Dominion, and probably combine all the Fed timeline factions on the other side, in order to return STO to a simpler Fed vs Aliens form, thereby being less confusing to new players/fans of Disco, and also liberating writers to give the alien faction more content using the combined base to equal the huge amount of Fed content. Seems logical, as KDF players should've gotten the Romulan style "join the Feds or not" treatment from the beginning. You can streamline that whole thing and give players max choice plus decide which side to join (red vs blue scenario) for PvP competition purposes only. I think unifying the alien factions and just having 2 factions in the game could go a long way toward fixing PvP, etc. I also think CBS must've told Cryptic that Star Trek: Picard will be going in the direction of a Typhon Pact (novelverse) sort of thing, so I bet by this time next year we'll be seeing 1 Federation faction vs 1 Typhon Pact faction and all the huge in-game consequences thereof. A combined alien faction could actually draw players away from Fed supremacy because it would have multiple homeworlds and an equal-if-not-more amount of content as a base. A lot of retooling of the current episodes will be necessary to combine the stories, but there is precedent, such as the original Romulan and Cardassian arc rewrites.
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  • centurian821centurian821 Member Posts: 274 Arc User
    ^^ @sirsitsalot -- I think that's basically a great idea to generate ship interior revenue and open up a new angle of gameplay without too much work. Just have ship interiors give you randomized away team missions, and you can invite teams to your ship, walk to the transporter room & beam down to a randomized dungeon/planet, pew pew boom boom, get XP & dil. It feels more Trekkie and ground is underutilized, and maybe addressing the improvement of ground is what Al Rivera is talking about. Alternatively, albeit on a related note, recasting the tac, sci, and eng factions to make team cooperation more necessary would also address the long-standing player wish to simulate the diverse crew roles in Trek more (i.e. make sci scans and engi repairs absolutely necessary to beat a PvE boss, so tac dps isn't the only thing that matters).

    My best guess is the big change will be Picard & faction related. I think the new show's plot will have the majority of Romulan refugees integrate with the Klingon Empire, rather than the Federation. Perhaps, therefore, they will combine the KDF with the Romulan Republic and maybe the Dominion, and probably combine all the Fed timeline factions on the other side, in order to return STO to a simpler Fed vs Aliens form, thereby being less confusing to new players/fans of Disco, and also liberating writers to give the alien faction more content using the combined base to equal the huge amount of Fed content. Seems logical, as KDF players should've gotten the Romulan style "join the Feds or not" treatment from the beginning. You can streamline that whole thing and give players max choice plus decide which side to join (red vs blue scenario) for PvP competition purposes only. I think unifying the alien factions and just having 2 factions in the game could go a long way toward fixing PvP, etc. I also think CBS must've told Cryptic that Star Trek: Picard will be going in the direction of a Typhon Pact (novelverse) sort of thing, so I bet by this time next year we'll be seeing 1 Federation faction vs 1 Typhon Pact faction and all the huge in-game consequences thereof. A combined alien faction could actually draw players away from Fed supremacy because it would have multiple homeworlds and an equal-if-not-more amount of content as a base. A lot of retooling of the current episodes will be necessary to combine the stories, but there is precedent, such as the original Romulan and Cardassian arc rewrites.

    Nothing would get me to stop playing faster than that kind of storyline change.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,019 Arc User
    I came up with that in the space of five minutes
    And as several people pointed out, that isn't a good idea because its forcing players to go into ship interiors to do things they shouldn't have to go into ship interiors for in the first place. Aka, bad game design.
    And here's an idea... When releasing a ship on the store or in a lockbox, Release it with a unique default bridge and interior layout.
    They have already explained why this will never happen. To create a good ship interior takes over a month per interior. They would have to switch to doing nothing but ships and interiors to make this possible.
    A combined alien faction could actually draw players away from Fed supremacy
    Not really. It wouldn't change the fact that every Star Trek show and movie thus far has been about the Federation, with Federation characters as the leads, and heroes, thus, making most people care only about the Federation.
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,089 Arc User
    ^^ @sirsitsalot -- I think that's basically a great idea to generate ship interior revenue and open up a new angle of gameplay without too much work.

    I like the ideas, at least partly. However, I do doubt the "without too much work" part. Fleshing out the idea for a system (what exactly should it do? what should the player do? what will the reards be? how do I balance against existing systems?) takes work, implementing takes work, making a working random mission generator takes a lot of work.
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  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    Look... I can afford to buy every single item on the C-store. I can afford to plunk down money on keys to open lockboxes.

    Well congratulations on your ludicrously gainful employment.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,338 Arc User
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    Look... I can afford to buy every single item on the C-store. I can afford to plunk down money on keys to open lockboxes.

    Well congratulations on your ludicrously gainful employment.

    Good job. Now quote the part where I explained why I don't buy that stuff... Go on... You can do it.
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • xyquarzexyquarze Member Posts: 2,089 Arc User
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    Well congratulations on your ludicrously gainful employment.

    Buying "everything", especially over the course of multiple years, doesn't necessarily mean "ludicrous" earnings. It may also mean having less other expenses. Sure it is a lot of money and if you're scraping by it's probably not prudent to do so, but it is more a question of preferences than a question of having a very high income for most.
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  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,338 Arc User
    I came up with that in the space of five minutes
    And as several people pointed out, that isn't a good idea because its forcing players to go into ship interiors to do things they shouldn't have to go into ship interiors for in the first place. Aka, bad game design.

    Oh my god... We have to visit our ship interiors to do stuff that, in the movies and shows, the characters dfo in their ship's interiors... What a scandal...

    That excuse doesn't hold water and you know it.
    And here's an idea... When releasing a ship on the store or in a lockbox, Release it with a unique default bridge and interior layout.
    They have already explained why this will never happen. To create a good ship interior takes over a month per interior. They would have to switch to doing nothing but ships and interiors to make this possible.

    Like the ship interiors are oh so complex in their design. Just some rooms with doors and a few curving corridors that go nowhere. If it took a month to design the layout of the existing interiors, then I question the competence of their 3D artist. Or better yet, I question the utility of their development tools. What the hell do they have to do? Design interiors using some sort of markup language scripting that all has to be typed in? It would be different if they had to create all new assets for every new ship, and I most certainly did not suggest that. For new layouts we're talking snapping the same corridor pieces together in different configurations, making sure that there are working doors that open into the needed rooms, which also would use the same assets. The idea is to have just enough variation that one would know the difference between one class ship and another.

    I'm rolling my eyes here, man...
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,019 Arc User
    Oh my god... We have to visit our ship interiors to do stuff that, in the movies and shows, the characters dfo in their ship's interiors... What a scandal...
    This argument ignores that most of what they did in ship interiors was stand around and talk about the situation, be it on the bridge, in ten forward, in someone's quarter, in one engineering room or another, etc. etc.

    These conversations are already facilities in-game by cutscenes, the dialog boxes, or those little side screen notifications, since trying to match the way the TV shows did it would require a ton of load screens for the constant shifts between the player bridge, and whoever, or whatever, else the player is talking to. Not to mention that not all bridges have the same seating placements, so having someone somewhere for a conversation is difficult.

    They did not have to show ship interior shots for them flying around space to explore things, they showed ship EXTERIOR shots of the ship flying around to star systems and whatever while they were exploring.

    So, again, why would we have to go into our ship interior for any sort of exploration system when that isn't how the TV shows worked to begin with?
    If it took a month to design the layout of the existing interiors, then I question the competence of their 3D artist.
    It took over a month to make the screen accurate ship interiors since they spent lots of time examining photos to make sure they got everything right.

    In other situations, it would still take a significant amount of time because the interiors has to be designed, molded, textured, and tested, and things are almost never as good as you think they are the first time, so every aspect is likely to undergo multiple revisions, which in turn increases the amount of time spent on anything. That is true, and has been true, of pretty much every job that requires you to design something.

    Its true of business in general. Where I work we get a large volume of mail, and likewise have to send out a lot of mail asking for more, or corrected, information. By the time it gets to my department, where we determine if we need to go ask for more information, the mail could have been at the office for over two weeks, as it has to pass through a dozen other departments before it gets to mine. That's just business.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 7,036 Community Moderator
    I want interior stuff, probably more than the next guy, but this also ignores the fact that DOFFing originally took place in the ship until players complained about having to go to their ship interior to do it, so it was removed to be UI only.
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  • illustriousqillustriousq Member Posts: 35 Arc User
    I want interior stuff, probably more than the next guy, but this also ignores the fact that DOFFing originally took place in the ship until players complained about having to go to their ship interior to do it, so it was removed to be UI only.

    This isn't entirely true. Doffing always had a UI Component which was accessible from the menus. That UI component was fine.

    What was the annoying pain in the neck part of doffing was when sector space was broken up into more sectors than it is now. Each Sector had it's own slew of doffing missions. This was true, and I remember this because I did it countless times, for both the menu UI and the ship interiors.

    You had 13 Sector Space Blocks and 14 Exploration Clusters which all had different Doff Missions in both the Menu UI and the Ship Interiors. So 44 Maps to check at all times.

    With map load times, this on average took over 2 hours to do once.
  • markhawkmanmarkhawkman Member Posts: 35,230 Arc User
    And now we have to park on sector borders to get most of the sector space assignments. :/
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  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,292 Arc User
    Yes, and you get the additional Doff Assignments for the Counselor, Bartender, Cook, Hamlet, and the make consumables &c. as well.
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  • warpangelwarpangel Member Posts: 9,427 Arc User
    What was the annoying pain in the neck part of doffing was when sector space was broken up into more sectors than it is now. Each Sector had it's own slew of doffing missions. This was true, and I remember this because I did it countless times, for both the menu UI and the ship interiors.

    You had 13 Sector Space Blocks and 14 Exploration Clusters which all had different Doff Missions in both the Menu UI and the Ship Interiors. So 44 Maps to check at all times.

    With map load times, this on average took over 2 hours to do once.
    Each sector still has it's own set of assignments. They're just all squeezed into impossibly tiny, unmarked strips at the edges that you have to look up on google to even find and then buzz back and forth while staring at the assignment list to be able to stop on just the right spot.

    The old way was better.
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